Sex And The City - General Discussion

[bluegirl147]

29 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

This should be fun. I am looking forward to seeing her in the new QAF Reboot, (it just started but I was busy this weekend).

In the Age & Tv thread we were lamenting that AJLT wouldve been a great chance to show women over 50 in a positive, realistic light and they blew it. This Netflix show gives us age representation in a positive way.

One thing SATC was good at was showing those women (30s-40s)  pretty accurately.  They did storylines that resonated with a lot of women in that age range.  There weren't a lot of things they were reluctant to tackle.  And it never felt like they were trying to teach us something.  Or preach at us.

Fast Forward to AJLT and as I said more than once they took the SATC characters and put them on a show that could have been written for new characters.   AJLT was all about the storylines (or more accurately) the issues, than the characters.  

[Scarlett45]

52 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Fast Forward to AJLT and as I said more than once they took the SATC characters and put them on a show that could have been written for new characters.   AJLT was all about the storylines (or more accurately) the issues, than the characters. 

I said that about AJLT too- the characters were older, they didn’t have personality transplants. 

[andromeda331]

I'm happy to hear Kim has a new show. It sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out.

[voiceover]

Just rewatched the last 15 of “American Girl in Paris Part Deux”.   The OG series ended with a goofball laughing reunion for Carrie & Big, a new baby for Harry & Charlotte, Magda telling Miranda, “You love,” and Sam getting that lovely middle-of-the-night visit from Smith (“Can you think of a better reason…?”).  And a shrieking reunion in the coffee shop, and a Big name reveal, and a final Carrie VO plainly stating the theme of the series: about how your most important love is loving yourself, and “If you find someone to love the you you love, well, that's just fabulous!“

Never thought the movies would work (and I was right), and the less said about what came after, the better.  

That was one of the best, most fitting endings to any series ever, and for me, it closed that book.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Hmm, it's funny that you say that.  Personally when I first saw the finale I thought that Big and Carrie getting back together was an enormous slap in the face to the viewers. And it looked mightily stupid after Carrie gave Big a big speech about how she doesn't "live here anymore" on her way to Paris.  Only the "Seinfeld" finale made me angrier than this one.

Of course, now I can watch it. But at the time I was like this is horseshit, LOL.

[Scarlett45]

17 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Hmm, it's funny that you say that.  Personally when I first saw the finale I thought that Big and Carrie getting back together was an enormous slap in the face to the viewers. And it looked mightily stupid after Carrie gave Big a big speech about how she doesn't "live here anymore" on her way to Paris.  Only the "Seinfeld" finale made me angrier than this one.

Of course, now I can watch it. But at the time I was like this is horseshit, LOL.

I thought Big was a jerk, and Carrie shouldn't have taken him back, but the end of the series was realistic to me. Carrie ALWAYS wanted Big to just WANT her. End of the day. When he came to Paris and told her he wanted her, that was enough for her. When Big showed up to her apartment before she went to Paris, he didnt make a declaration of love and longing, he wanted to keep stringing her around as usual.

If Big had acted like a decent person, and not you know, stood her up at the alter in her WEDDING GOWN saying "I am not ready", I could've maybe let that go. I don't know why she even wanted his ass after all he put her though, but in the series finale, he did tell her that he wanted her. 

I guess if you get your heart's desire, you don't question why you wanted it in the first place. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I kind of felt like the whole thesis of the series was that things had shifted so monumentally in North American society that women no longer 'needed' men.  Women were independent and could live lives completely full without a monogamous relationship/marriage with a man.  It showed women being completely free.  The show was revolutionary in showing women being completely unapologetic about living like this.

So it felt really pandering that they gave Carrie this classic Cinderella happy ending.  Sex and the City was never supposed to be Cinderella.  It was supposed to be the anti-Cinderella.  And Carrie standing up to Big in front of her apartment and giving that speech - every single word she said was true and she was finally using some backbone for once.  When she took him back in Paris it was like that speech was suddenly obliterated because Aleks wasn't paying attention to her for 2 days.  It was bullshit.

I believe in the SATC book, Carrie and Big were together, but Carrie was as skeptical and as cynical as always.  That felt more realistic.

I'll always defend the movie.  They kind of went back on that Cinderella thing and showed Big being trepidatious.  It felt very true, especially when he stopped Carrie and said "This is my third marriage.  How is that going to look?"  I believed that completely.  I don't really love that wedding altar scene, it felt way too dramatic and unearned, but whatever.  Catalyst for the plot.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[bluegirl147]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

And Carrie standing up to Big in front of her apartment and giving that speech - every single word she said was true and she was finally using some backbone for once.

True but she was going to Paris to be with a man.  She was rightly pissed off at Big but she wasn't being a strong independent woman.

The series finale at the time I liked but as I got older (I'm a little younger than the characters) I changed my mind and felt Carrie should have stayed single.  My fantasy would  have been after Big declared his love and told her she was the one she says OK thanks that is all I wanted and walk away.  

I can watch the first movie and handwave a bunch of stuff because I do enjoy watching the characters again.  The second movie I can watch till they go overseas and then I have to turn it off.

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I kind of felt like the whole thesis of the series was that things had shifted so monumentally in North American society that women no longer 'needed' men.  Women were independent and could live lives completely full without a monogamous relationship/marriage with a man.  It showed women being completely free.  The show was revolutionary in showing women being completely unapologetic about living like this.

It started out that way then it became a show about couples.  Which is fine but that wasn't what it originally was. The heart of the show was always the friendships and once they were all paired off we saw the women more with their partners than their friends.  What bothered me was the show pushed the idea that being paired is the logical outcome for people.  They reinforced the idea that being part of a couple is the norm and being single is not. I don't know if I said this before but when I was growing up when you filled out forms unmarried was a choice.  Not single.  Unmarried.  I don't remember when that changed but I'm glad it did. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

True but she was going to Paris to be with a man.  She was rightly pissed off at Big but she wasn't being a strong independent woman.

The speech was about how Big strung her on for 6 years.  Not about her "independence" but her standing up to HIM and realizing how horrible he'd been to her.

[voiceover]

Eh.  The columns that led to the book that inspired the show were terribly blasé about relationships — and the series *tried to follow that lead in the first season, but it just wasn’t sustainable.  By the middle of Season Two, even Miranda was looking for long-term commitment.  Which is why she let Jeremy move in with her in “The Chicken Dance”.  And was deflated when he dumped her their first evening out for the girl he’d marry by the end of the ep (leading to the first of my two all-time favorite Samantha lines:)

Charlotte [re: Jeremy and Madeleine’s sudden engagement]: “It’s love at first sight!”

Samantha: “[No it’s not!] That’s two people justifying a week of nonstop fucking!”

Samantha was the only one of that group that never veered from the Find’em/Fuck’em/Forget’em lifestyle (though Dominic, Richard, and Smith made her wobble in that regard).  Miranda’s idea of her life changed when she got pregnant.  And who knows which way Carrie might have gone if not for Big’s mortal shot to her heart (“I get it…You’ve never been in love!”) at the end of the pilot.

Among a list of reasons why I scorned the films was, I never cared if Carrie & Big got married.  That’s why I preferred the series ending, which left it happily up in the air.  Two people with the same sense of humor, who had great sex together?  Let it be, in perpetuity.

[Scarlett45]

Yes, the series was about adult women in the 90s who had reached a time where they didn’t need men for social or economic survival, but I think a big part of the story was how do you deal with relationships with men if you don’t “need one” (so you’re not just choosing JUST based on earning potential and social status) but you want one to fulfill sexual and emotional needs (the show was very heterosexual).

So I didn’t mind Carrie wanting Big- initially, I thought it was realistic. A Carrie from a previous generation would’ve just married an Aidan and considered herself lucky. She couldn’t have afforded to wait around for a Big type without any sort of commitment (marriage or being a long term kept woman). 
 

I loved Samantha in that she was heterosexual but she didn’t want a man, I’m 36 now, but even tween me was awed by that. I NEVER saw that. Ever. 

On 7/20/2022 at 7:46 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

The speech was about how Big strung her on for 6 years.  Not about her "independence" but her standing up to HIM and realizing how horrible he'd been to her.

Which was fine by me. He had been awful to her. AWFUL. And she allowed him to keep taking up space in her heart and mind. Long after the affair. I will give her the second break up because she really loved him, but Carrie was the one that kept tying herself up. 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I loved Samantha in that she was heterosexual but she didn’t want a man, I’m 36 now, but even tween me was awed by that. I NEVER saw that. Ever. 

You still don't see a lot of that.   So many movies and TV shows (and SATC did it too) have a woman who  has proclaimed she likes being single eventually realize that yes she does in fact want a happily ever after with a man.  I'm 53 and happily single.  My life goal is to spend my senior years with other women ala The Golden Girls. 

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Which was fine by me. He had been awful to her. AWFUL. And she allowed him to keep taking up space in her heart and mind. Long after the affair. I will give her the second break up because she really loved him, but Carrie was the one that kept tying herself up. 

Yes. Big might have kept her on a string but Carrie held it on to it.  

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

You still don't see a lot of that.   So many movies and TV shows (and SATC did it too) have a woman who  has proclaimed she likes being single eventually realize that yes she does in fact want a happily ever after with a man.  I'm 53 and happily single.  My life goal is to spend my senior years with other women ala The Golden Girls. 

You really didn't really see it. You still don't that much. Shows still pair everyone up. I always hoped to marry I'm more of a Charlotte wanting marriage and kids but whether my health issues in my 20s and last several years prevent it or it just never happened. I really don't know but I'm at the point that I've made peace with it and I'm happy with my single life. I'm happy with my dad and adopting cats and dogs. I hope to travel with my dad to Yellowstone and do a river cruise down the Mississippi. I'd love to go on a road trip through Canada. Take trips with my nephew and visit family. There's other things I'm doing and want to do. It's really fun watching single women on TV. I love Samantha because she's single and she loves it. She gave a relationship a try and realized it really wasn't for her. That's still so rare. As much as Carrie wants or thinks she wants a relationship I think she'd prefer the single life with relationships come and go. I like how busy and full the Golden Girls lives were. I loved Roz on Frasier. She had a kid and didn't get married. She raised her kid and kept on with her single life. She was happy.

Quote

Yes. Big might have kept her on a string but Carrie held it on to it.  

She did. The only thing I liked about Carrie with Alek was she finally stopped running to Big every time he called. He never stayed but she kept running to him hoping this time would be different. It never was. I liked that she called him out it. That was great. Then they completely undo it by having him "rescue" her in Paris. There was nothing to believe that time would be anything different. He only really seemed surprised that she didn't come running.

[RealHousewife]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

You still don't see a lot of that.   So many movies and TV shows (and SATC did it too) have a woman who  has proclaimed she likes being single eventually realize that yes she does in fact want a happily ever after with a man.  I'm 53 and happily single.  My life goal is to spend my senior years with other women ala The Golden Girls. 

Yes. Big might have kept her on a string but Carrie held it on to it.  

That's how my great aunts are spending their senior years. They're very happy, healthy women, and they also look fabulous. Everyone jokes that it's because they're single and never had kids either. 

For me personally, I've spend so much of my life single, I've had enough of it. I went from only being annoyed by other people single shaming me, to now really wanting a romantic partner and not wanting to live life without one. I don't know if the complete switch is due to being in my mid30s and knowing the click is ticking if I want kids or if I've just changed. Being more isolated due to covid, I also have less interaction with men than I used to. Maybe the male interaction and attention I had pre-covid kept me from feeling lonely. When I was younger, and still now somewhat, I dealt with so much anxiety, depression, disordered eating, etc., that getting settled down was least of my concerns. I was just trying to make it through each day, get to school, get to work, etc. (I look well put together on the outside but have been something of a mess on the inside for most of my life.) The white picket fence life never looked particularly fun to me either. I did always crave that SATC exciting lifestyle, being out on the town, dating and just having adventure. I was always too anxious to have that either though.

Since I missed out on so much in life, I really want marriage and kids to happen for me at this point. But I still believe they're not necessary for everyone. I've thought if I had a bigger family (more siblings, cousins, etc), that I might be able to go without kids. All I have are my parents and one sibling, so I'm just so scared of ending up alone. :( So many women in my life have been having babies the last couple of years, it has given me baby fever too. I know even that would have to wait awhile though. Even if I met Mr. Perfect tomorrow, I am not going to jump into anything a la Charlotte. I always knew I'd be an older mom if I got around to having kids, but I always thought ideally I'd have two by 40. I'm not crazy about having them too much older because I want to be around for them. Now I don't know if that's possible unless literally everything went my way, I had twins, or an easy adoption process. A girlfriend of mine just had a baby at 41 and would like to have more, so she gives me hope if I don't get two by 40.  

It's so strange I went from Miss Independent to feeling needy. The idea of ever being without a man gets me really down these days. I've always been attracted to older men, but I've even decided I want around my age or younger so hopefully I won't outlive the love of my life too long (if at all). I'm a very sensitive person and a depressive, and I don't know if I'm strong enough to handle that kind of loss.

Even though I have picked up some Charlotte qualities lately, I just think bottom line, people need people. Not everyone needs kids. Not everyone needs marriage. Not everyone needs the super close group of girlfriends like these four women. But you do need to have people to love and care about imo, one way or the other. I have friends, but unfortunately I do not have three super close friends I see all the time. Wish I did. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Even though I have picked up some Charlotte qualities lately, I just think bottom line, people need people. Not everyone needs kids. Not everyone needs marriage. Not everyone needs the super close group of girlfriends like these four women. But you do need to have people to love and care about imo, one way or the other. I have friends, but unfortunately I do not have three super close friends I see all the time. Wish I did. 

I think we are the same age @RealHousewife, I understand. So much of female life now is about babies and children, if you don’t have that (even if you don’t want it) you can feel left out. 
 

I agree that people need people. And something I liked about SATC is that the ladies were each other’s people. I would’ve loved if Carrie chose her friends and left Aleks on her own, and THEN Big was at her door. Much truer to the premise of the show. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree that people need people. And something I liked about SATC is that the ladies were each other’s people. I would’ve loved if Carrie chose her friends and left Aleks on her own, and THEN Big was at her door. Much truer to the premise of the show. 

I would have been happy with that. It would give me the one thing I always wanted from Carrie. To learn from one of her mistakes. They could have used Carrie not running to him and calling him out as the first of her learning from her mistakes and build to her deciding to back to home to her friends and the city she loves. Even Big showing up at her door would be great. Carrie's wants him but has finally grow and learned from the past and Big knows he can't play the same games with her anymore. She'll walk and go find someone else. That would be a great ending.  

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think we are the same age @RealHousewife, I understand. So much of female life now is about babies and children, if you don’t have that (even if you don’t want it) you can feel left out. 
 

I agree that people need people. And something I liked about SATC is that the ladies were each other’s people. I would’ve loved if Carrie chose her friends and left Aleks on her own, and THEN Big was at her door. Much truer to the premise of the show. 

Yes. :) Do you also find you relate to SATC more the older you get? We were so young when the show started, it was mostly just escapist TV to watch glamorous ladies for me. I never thought the day would come where I could relate to Charlotte the degree I now do. Despite all my issues, since my teens I always got my fair share of male attention, and I never thought I'd get to my age and be single. I never thought I'd have to worry about fertility or want a relationship to progress super quickly. I find desperation and pushiness both so unattractive, even coming from someone as pretty as Charlotte. I promise I will never yell at a sweet boyfriend to set the date! 

My sister has a boyfriend, but she misses the days of seeing her friends without their husbands. She loves babies, but sometimes she gets tired of all the baby showers and everything being centered around mom life. She doesn't want to do brunch. She prefers a girls' night out. I think my sister, as many friends as she has, would also love that SATC group of very close women friends who constantly see one another. 

Yes, Charlotte even said once that they could all be one another's soulmates. :) 

[bluegirl147]

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

. I loved Roz on Frasier. She had a kid and didn't get married. She raised her kid and kept on with her single life. She was happy.

Roz is a perfect example of a woman who was single and had a fulfilling life.

17 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

He only really seemed surprised that she didn't come running.

I had a Big.  I found out he started something with someone else without telling me and confronted him and told him I was done. Later that same day the new woman also broke it off with him.  Karma got him good that day.  That was three and a  half years ago. He still texts me every once in awhile thinking I will see him again.  I will not.  To quote Taylor Swift we are never ever ever getting back together.   He still seems surprised I won't come running to him.

15 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Even though I have picked up some Charlotte qualities lately, I just think bottom line, people need people. Not everyone needs kids. Not everyone needs marriage. Not everyone needs the super close group of girlfriends like these four women. But you do need to have people to love and care about imo, one way or the other. I have friends, but unfortunately I do not have three super close friends I see all the time. Wish I did. 

As is the way with most things in life it's not quantity it's quality.  I don't have a lot of friends but I have a two friends I talk to on an almost daily basis.  And of course all of you guys here at PTV.

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

So much of female life now is about babies and children, if you don’t have that (even if you don’t want it) you can feel left out. 

And when you become my age much of female life is about grandkids.  I do have two grandkids, including a new one who is just over a month old (the most beautiful baby girl ever but I digress) but my life isn't built around them.  I have FB friends who are constantly posting pics of them doing things with their grandkids.  Some even have custody of them.  I'm also single.  I do not personally know any woman my age who is single.  After my husband died I would ask friends to get together and do something.  Every woman I asked except one always said they were too busy with a husband or grandkids.

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree that people need people. And something I liked about SATC is that the ladies were each other’s people. I would’ve loved if Carrie chose her friends and left Aleks on her own, and THEN Big was at her door. Much truer to the premise of the show. 

Yes Carrie should have quoted Kelly Taylor and said "I choose me". 

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Yes, Charlotte even said once that they could all be one another's soulmates. :) 

I think there is a lot of truth in that.  I don't want to sound like I'm bashing men but as I've gotten older I crave genuine female friendship so much more than any sort of male involvement.   

[Scarlett45]

39 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I do not personally know any woman my age who is single.

May I ask- where do you live? Are you in the USA? City/suburb/rural?

I only ask because I know a lot of single people in their 20s. And a lot of single people in their 50s+ (I’m 37). I have two friends who are single Moms (to my godbaby who is 7, and my other friend did IVF as a single woman and is due soon) But given my ethnic cultural background, and my profession, single women aren’t an oddity (although we are a minority in the 30s/40s, but not so much after that). My Mom is 74 and most of her friends are single by now, she has a few married friends, but they are the minority.

Keeping it about the show- I did find it realistic that Charlotte got married because she really wanted that. Samantha was never going to be someone who partnered for life (breaking up her and Smith in movie one was the realistic thing I could get behind). I could see Miranda finding someone (but not Steve- I’ve talked about that to death in the And Just Like That forum)

[bluegirl147]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

May I ask- where do you live? Are you in the USA? City/suburb/rural?

I live in the northern panhandle of WV.  On one dating site when I used my zip code I got a message stating there were no matches in my area.  On another site I had to widen my search to include the greater Pittsburgh area.  The pickings are slim around here.

The women I know have either been married forever or they have been divorced and remarried.  Being single here is not like being single on SATC.  There just isn't a lot to do.

If I'm being honest I never had a lot in common with other women here. When my son played little league years ago I was with some other mothers and the subject of books came up and I mentioned the Devil Wears Prada. Not one of them had heard of it. They all said they liked this other particular author and I thought yeah these are not my people.  LOL.  It is hard to find friends you have things in common with that you click with.  I do think SATC kinda ruined it for all of us because we want that deep friendship and it's hard to find.

17 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Samantha was never going to be someone who partnered for life (breaking up her and Smith in movie one was the realistic thing I could get behind).

I agree but I didn't like the way they portrayed her dissatisfaction with Smith.  Yes it was that he didn't have a lot of time for her but they also had her lusting after the neighbor.  My opinion is they made it seem like Samantha wasn't getting enough sex and that was the issue in her relationship with Smith.  I like the way she broke up with Richard. She knew she couldn't trust him (with very good reason) and she didn't want to live like that.  It made her crazy and jealous and she didn't want to be that person.

[Scarlett45]

1 minute ago, bluegirl147 said:

I agree but I didn't like the way they portrayed her dissatisfaction with Smith.  Yes it was that he didn't have a lot of time for her but they also had her lusting after the neighbor.  My opinion is they made it seem like Samantha wasn't getting enough sex and that was the issue in her relationship with Smith. 

I think if they had focused more on the fact that Samantha was resentful of managing Smith and molding her life around his career (she moved across the country for goodness sakes) that would’ve been more authentic, BUT wouldn’t give us hot shots of the neighbor and the funny jokes about sex. 

[bluegirl147]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think if they had focused more on the fact that Samantha was resentful of managing Smith and molding her life around his career (she moved across the country for goodness sakes) that would’ve been more authentic,

They did touch on that (wasn't Smith her only client?) but you are right there would have been less focus on the hot neighbor.  They also had her gain a lot of weight and get a dog.  All because she was unhappy in her relationship.  At the time I just waved it away but now I look at that and think was it that difficult for them to write Samantha as an independent woman chafing at being in a relationship that wasn't working without playing it for laughs? I've mostly identified with Samantha throughout the series and the first movie (not the second movie though because well we all know how bad the second movie was) and losing your identity when you are in relationship was something that resonated with me.  I think Carrie, Charlotte and Miranda all at one point or another adapted to their significant other's lives.  But for Samantha it just didn't feel right.  I get that.  

[Scarlett45]

52 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

They did touch on that (wasn't Smith her only client?) but you are right there would have been less focus on the hot neighbor.  They also had her gain a lot of weight and get a dog.  All because she was unhappy in her relationship.  At the time I just waved it away but now I look at that and think was it that difficult for them to write Samantha as an independent woman chafing at being in a relationship that wasn't working without playing it for laughs? I've mostly identified with Samantha throughout the series and the first movie (not the second movie though because well we all know how bad the second movie was) and losing your identity when you are in relationship was something that resonated with me.  I think Carrie, Charlotte and Miranda all at one point or another adapted to their significant other's lives.  But for Samantha it just didn't feel right.  I get that.  

Samantha getting a dog made a lot of sense, the weight gain storyline was ridiculous. No adult, no matter how fit and active stays in the same 5lbs range their entire life. They had her “gain” 15lbs?(by putting Kim Cattrall in too small clothes)- that’s just life, not an indication you’re in an unhappy relationship. 
 

Yes- Samantha went from running a successful PR firm to managing Smith 100%. She was doing a good job at it, but those manager/significant other type relationships can get weird really fast. Like are you my BOSS or my romantic partner?

I get that if you’re going to share a life with someone you have to compromise on some things. Samantha didn’t want to do that- didn’t make her an awful person, but when are women ever allowed to be that self indulgent? Never. This is why I love Samantha. 

[qtpye]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I get that if you’re going to share a life with someone you have to compromise on some things. Samantha didn’t want to do that- didn’t make her an awful person, but when are women ever allowed to be that self indulgent? Never. This is why I love Samantha. 

Yes, there is a patriarchal view that when men get into a monogamous relationship, they are being held back from living their best lives. That's where we get those lovely terms like "ball and chain".

The inverse is that hetro women are just dying to get into relationships with men and their lives will never be fulfilled unless they have a man in their life.

I feel that this is one of the reasons women get so much negative pushback when they say things like they have no desire to marry or have children. It's usually in the vein of "you'll be sorry, one day".

The truth is men benefit from marriage much more than women.

https://psiloveyou.xyz/marriage-disproportionally-benefits-men-59e5a4dd89be

That is why Sam was truly the most revolutionary character in the series. 

[Scarlett45]

19 minutes ago, qtpye said:

The truth is men benefit from marriage much more than women.

Oh yeah duh. Now that women have earning power, hetero men benefit the most from marriage- emotionally, physically etc. 

I never bought Steve and Miranda as a great love story, but I could see Steve being quite happy being married to Miranda and thinking he married up (after he got over his insecurities in Season 2) if she had just continued to be nice to him. I do think Miranda was a jerk to him and took him for granted and that contributed to his cheating. Steve was nice, he knew how hard Miranda worked and he knew how hard it was going to be to care for his Mom. Had Miranda just been a bit nicer and kinder he would’ve kept worshiping her like a goddess. But Miranda had her flaws too.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

As is the way with most things in life it's not quantity it's quality.  I don't have a lot of friends but I have a two friends I talk to on an almost daily basis.  And of course all of you guys here at PTV.

And when you become my age much of female life is about grandkids.  I do have two grandkids, including a new one who is just over a month old (the most beautiful baby girl ever but I digress) but my life isn't built around them.  I have FB friends who are constantly posting pics of them doing things with their grandkids.  Some even have custody of them.  I'm also single.  I do not personally know any woman my age who is single.  After my husband died I would ask friends to get together and do something.  Every woman I asked except one always said they were too busy with a husband or grandkids.

Yes Carrie should have quoted Kelly Taylor and said "I choose me". 

I think there is a lot of truth in that.  I don't want to sound like I'm bashing men but as I've gotten older I crave genuine female friendship so much more than any sort of male involvement.   

Yes, I'd rather read or watch Netflix than hang with friends who put me down. 

Congratulations on the new grand baby! 

I love the company of men. I think they can be a lot of fun to be around, and I probably appreciate the male interaction more as a single woman. However, friendships with men are complicated. With my female friends, there's a safety and coziness I don't have with male friends, at least not the straight ones. No one has ulterior motives, we just want friendship. Even on SATC, the women didn't really do friendships with straight men, did they? 

[Hiyo]

Carrie and Skip is about the only example I can think, but I couldn't say they were that close as friends, plus she forgot all about him post season 1. Other than that early on we'd meet a male friend of Carrie's every once in a while, but they were just relevant to the plot of that episode, I guess.

[bluegirl147]

37 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

However, friendships with men are complicated.

They are.  I'm friendly with my four male coworkers (I'm the only woman).  But if circumstances changed and I wasn't here or one of them wasn't here I would no longer be friendly with them.  Not because I wouldn't want to be but because they are situational friends and the situation would have changed.  I've tried being friends with ex's and it doesn't work.  I am friendly with one but he would love to sleep together again so.....

37 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Even on SATC, the women didn't really do friendships with straight men, did they? 

I always assumed the women had other friends but we just didn't see them unless like @Hiyo said they were relevant to the plot.  Miranda was probably friendly with the lawyers in her firm.  Carrie tried being friends with Big and we see how that turned out.  I don't know if Charlotte would have wanted to be friends with hetero men. When she was single she would have been considering whether they were boyfriend material.  And once married she would have wanted couple friends.  Samantha found out how few men friends she had when she was sick and called some and they didn't come to help her. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by bluegirl147

[Ms Blue Jay]

Carrie had some random guy friend in Season 1 that was sleeping with a butcher that he thought wasn't good enough for him.  I assume that was the episode called "Secret Sex" because she thought Big felt the same way about her.

Carrie stayed with a couple in the Hamptons in Season 1 and the husband walked out to the kitchen greeting her naked from the waist down.  What a fucking creep.

Carrie tried to have another gay friend, but then Stanford got really jealous.  She also spent that night not sleeping with Bone the model....... Oh..... Bone..........  And she spent the night not sleeping with Jeremiah the waiter.  And she was friends with the guy who made sex tapes of all his conquests - Gabriel Macht.  I think all of this is Season 1, like Skip.  Her life was so fun back then and she had so many friends!

Miranda had one guy friend who moved from New York to L.A. and developed an eating disorder.  She met up with him in L.A. and witnessed it.

Charlotte had a female friend whose husband hit on her.  LOL.  one of the funniest plot lines.  "I'm not going to start some married man's car!!!!"  Charlotte also tried to make friends with the Power Lesbian crowd.  But then the Queen of them was like..... well I'm not going to repeat it but it was basically if you're straight then leave the group.

I don't recall Samantha having any guy friends.  LOL.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

Carrie also had that friend who liked to tape himself having sex with women. But like her friend in Secret Sex, he was never seen or heard from again.

Didn't Miranda and the LA guy try to start something during the brief time she was in LA? I remember it didn't end well, but still.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yeah, I just remembered the Gabriel Macht plotline and some others while I was posting.  I do not recall Miranda and the L.A. guy being romantic.  They just went out for lunch and he ordered a steak, chewed it, and spit it all out.  I could be wrong I don't know.  it's been awhile.  In the script Carrie teases Miranda and says he should move to "Brazil" i.e. Brazilian wax joke but I don't know if Miranda takes it seriously.

13 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't recall Samantha having any guy friends.  LOL.  

One thing I love about the Sex and the City movie is when all the guys are out smoking cigars - Harry, Smith, and Big - and Samantha is out there with them like the 4th guy.  

Edited July 26, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[bluegirl147]

16 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

One thing I love about the Sex and the City movie is when all the guys are out smoking cigars - Harry, Smith, and Big - and Samantha is out there with them like the 4th guy.  

I was thinking about that very scene when I was thinking about Samantha having male friends.  She was cool with her her friend's husbands and boyfriends. 

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Carrie stayed with a couple in the Hamptons in Season 1 and the husband walked out to the kitchen greeting her naked from the waist down.

26 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Charlotte had a female friend whose husband hit on her. 

I thought about both of those.  It's not always easy for a single woman to be friends with a couple.  As these two examples point out, men can be real pigs.

[RealHousewife]

You all are great at quickly remembering all those episodes! Yeah I guess they had male friends just not super close ones. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I watch the entire series again every few years.  And then I come here and I recap everything I'm watching and get mad all over again.  LOL.  I'm so happy when other people post and keep this topic going!

Edited July 26, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Scarlett45]

30 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I watch the entire series again every few years.  And then I come here and I recap everything I'm watching and get mad all over again.  LOL.  I'm so happy when other people post and keep this topic going!

It’s a great series! I follow the thread to see what you guys are saying when people add new posts. 
 

It had its problems (like every series) but it really was one of a kind, and one of my favs. 

[WendyCR72]

31 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It had its problems (like every series) but it really was one of a kind, and one of my favs. 

It was one of my favorites for me, too. But (just me!) And Just Like That ruined the whole thing for me. Sigh.

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

It’s a great series! I follow the thread to see what you guys are saying when people add new posts. 
 

It had its problems (like every series) but it really was one of a kind, and one of my favs. 

I know I make fun of it a lot but it's just because the series makes me so passionate.  It's the same for me, It's in my top 10 all time shows definitely - maybe even top 5 but it's tough to say.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Hiyo]

It's also (for me) an interesting time capsule for that era of NYC, specifically Manhatten, for all the good and bad of that era.

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, Hiyo said:

It's also (for me) an interesting time capsule for that era of NYC, specifically Manhatten, for all the good and bad of that era.

Yes absolutely. 
 

For millennial women, everything we learned about relationships in our tween/teen years I think we learned from SATC.

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

For millennial women, everything we learned about relationships in our tween/teen years I think we learned from SATC.

Is that good or bad?  LOL

I loved this show.  It was in my top five if not top three favorite shows of mine.  With that being said after multiple rewatches of the entire series I find myself liking it less each time.  Age and life experience lets me view it through different eyes. There are still things I love but I notice the flaws a lot more. There were some things they got right (Charlotte and Harry) and some things they got wrong (the second go around with Aidan).  And like @WendyCR72 said after watching AJLT SATC feels tainted to me.  There are some episodes I would gladly watch again but I doubt I will ever do entire rewatch again.  However I will most certainly continue to post here and have well thought out and interesting conversations with my fellow posters.  All you guys rock.  

[Scarlett45]

And Just Like That was ATROCIOUS (and yes I will be watching next season because I like chatting with you all in the forum) but the series isn't ruined for me. I can pretend AJLT is in an alternate universe. In my version of the SATC women are as follows:

1. Charlotte & Harry are pretty much the same as they are in AJLT, they are in a good place. Lily is in college, they are parenting Rock who DID have their bat mitzvah after their parents spent all that money and preparation was done. 

2. Carrie- Big dying I can see, her moving back to her old place and exploring life as a single person again. I like the idea of her hosting a podcast. 

3. Miranda- she and Steve got a divorce, they realized after Brady graduated from HS that they didnt have much in common besides being his parents, and split amicably. They are still friends. Steve is seeing someone new who Miranda actually likes, and Miranda is hot to trot going back to school, she meets Nya and makes more friends through her. She is open to dating, but after being married for so long she will likely live alone as long as she is able. Brady is in college, and thinks he might want to be a lawyer, he turned out pretty well.

4. Samantha's dog from the first film has died, and she realized how much the dog enriched her life and she works with Charlotte in dog rescue. This is the first time she and Charlotte did something just the two of them. She manages social media PR for a number of high profile celebs that Smith introduced her to, which she can do from NYC and she and the other women are doing great. 

We could write this stuff. 

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

1. Charlotte & Harry are pretty much the same as they are in AJLT, they are in a good place. Lily is in college, they are parenting Rock who DID have their bat mitzvah after their parents spent all that money and preparation was done. 

Agree with this.

14 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

2. Carrie- Big dying I can see, her moving back to her old place and exploring life as a single person again. I like the idea of her hosting a podcast. 

I would have had Big end up in prison for financial crimes (could be guilty or wrongfully accused) but all their money is frozen.  That would put Carrie back in her apartment without the cushion of that big inheritance.  I don't need to see Carrie date. I can live with a podcast.

16 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

3. Miranda- she and Steve got a divorce, they realized after Brady graduated from HS that they didnt have much in common besides being his parents, and split amicably. They are still friends. Steve is seeing someone new who Miranda actually likes, and Miranda is hot to trot going back to school, she meets Nya and makes more friends through her. She is open to dating, but after being married for so long she will likely live alone as long as she is able. Brady is in college, and thinks he might want to be a lawyer, he turned out pretty well.

Maybe Miranda ends up with Nya or maybe she runs into Robert (I'm never going to stop wanting that). 

17 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

4. Samantha's dog from the first film has died, and she realized how much the dog enriched her life and she works with Charlotte in dog rescue. This is the first time she and Charlotte did something just the two of them. She manages social media PR for a number of high profile celebs that Smith introduced her to, which she can do from NYC and she and the other women are doing great. 

Yes Samantha is still in NYC and still friends with the others.  

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I would have had Big end up in prison for financial crimes (could be guilty or wrongfully accused) but all their money is frozen.  That would put Carrie back in her apartment without the cushion of that big inheritance. 

That would be REALLY interesting. Carrie was the most financially insecure of the women. Samantha and Miranda had earned wealth through their chosen profession, Charlotte had a trust fund, the settlement from the first marriage and her marriage to Harry who was a high earner. 

Carrie was a constant spender who didnt really seem to get that under control, without Big, I would like to see her navigate her 50s. 

[RealHousewife]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes absolutely. 
 

For millennial women, everything we learned about relationships in our tween/teen years I think we learned from SATC.

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Is that good or bad?  LOL

There are people who think SATC did legitimately do a lot of damage.

"I do wonder what my life would have looked like if “Sex and the City” had never come across my consciousness. Perhaps I’d be married with children now? Who knows, but I can say for sure that, as clever and aesthetically pleasing as the show was — and, as much as I agree with its value of female friendships — it showed too much consumerism and fear of intimacy disguised as empowerment."

"Truth be told, I wish I had never heard of “SATC.” I’m sure there are worse role models but, for me, it did permanent and measurable damage to my psyche that I’m still cleaning up."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/dating-columnist-reveals-how-sex-and-the-city-ruined-her-life/

[Hiyo]

If one TV show has that much influence over you and your life…maybe the problem isn’t the TV show.

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

There are people who think SATC did legitimately do a lot of damage.

"I do wonder what my life would have looked like if “Sex and the City” had never come across my consciousness. Perhaps I’d be married with children now? Who knows, but I can say for sure that, as clever and aesthetically pleasing as the show was — and, as much as I agree with its value of female friendships — it showed too much consumerism and fear of intimacy disguised as empowerment."

"Truth be told, I wish I had never heard of “SATC.” I’m sure there are worse role models but, for me, it did permanent and measurable damage to my psyche that I’m still cleaning up."

https://nypost.com/2018/06/02/dating-columnist-reveals-how-sex-and-the-city-ruined-her-life/

I HIGHLY doubt SATC is the cause of this woman's dissatisfaction with some of her life choices. I am glad she is being more authentic to herself now. From what the article states, it seemed that she matured and went through a lot of personal development. 

I was being a bit sarcastic when I said everything we learned about relationships was from SATC, it is a fantasy after all.

 

5 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

If one TV show has that much influence over you and your life…maybe the problem isn’t the TV show.

I think its likely that the writer was sold a narrative about how her life should go, and she focused on pursuing that, rather than what she authentically wanted. That can happen to ANYONE though, a lot of women pursue marriage and motherhood, because its a life path that's sold to them, not because they actually take the time to reflect if that is going to be personally fulfilling.

Of course young adulthood is a a great time to "try things out" to see if they work for you. Most of the time, if it doesnt, no harm no foul, but at least you tried. 

This reminds me Charlotte, who THOUGHT she wanted a marriage to a Trey type, but that didnt make her happy. Not that she didnt want marriage and motherhood (she really did) but the "good on paper" guy didnt give her the personal fulfillment Harry did. 

[RealHousewife]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I HIGHLY doubt SATC is the cause of this woman's dissatisfaction with some of her life choices. I am glad she is being more authentic to herself now. From what the article states, it seemed that she matured and went through a lot of personal development. 

I was being a bit sarcastic when I said everything we learned about relationships was from SATC, it is a fantasy after all.

I got ya! :) But some people seriously do blame the show for some of their problems. One of my parents couple friends, the husband blamed SATC for his wife cheating on him with a younger man.

I always thought it would be cool to live in NYC and be that glamorous, but my practical side kept me from ever literally trying to be Carrie Bradshaw. We've all discussed how her lifestyle in terms of money alone was so unrealistic. 

[bluegirl147]

14 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

it showed too much consumerism

I do agree with that.  We have all talked here about Carrie's finances and how unrealistic it was she was leading the lifestyle she was with the wardrobe she had.   

One very good thing this show did was show women being friends.  In the 80s you had Golden Girls and Designing Women but after them with the exception of Living Single most shows that featured multiple women had them at odds with each other much of the time.  

[Scarlett45]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

We have all talked here about Carrie's finances and how unrealistic it was she was leading the lifestyle she was with the wardrobe she had.   

I know! They never even addressed it until Season 4. And after Carrie berated Charlotte to give her the engagement ring, we got no follow through on how she paid Charlotte back or adjusted her lifestyle. Not even a throwaway line about how she took her first book advance and paid Charlotte so it could be over and done with.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I know! They never even addressed it until Season 4. And after Carrie berated Charlotte to give her the engagement ring, we got no follow through on how she paid Charlotte back or adjusted her lifestyle. Not even a throwaway line about how she took her first book advance and paid Charlotte so it could be over and done with.

Yesterday I read one of those fluff pieces that was about plotlines that were dropped on TV shows.  This one was not even listed. This was a big one and here we are 20 years later and we are still talking about it.  I think the writers misjudged what viewers were paying attention to and caring about.  

Edited July 27, 2022 by bluegirl147