S02.E10: Game Day

[paigow]

Season Finale:

Spencer attempts to retrieve what he has lost; Ricky waits for a call that could define his future; Vernon takes a road trip; Siefert offers Charles a big opportunity.

[Blondie]

More please.  Can't wait for next season. 

[Ottis]

Charles is the only character who seems to be going anywhere.

[thuganomics85]

Again, I know he won't be getting Emmys anytime soon, but Dwayne Johnson did a pretty good job with the big speech at the end.  I certainly never would have predicted the guy who use to beat up people in a wrestling while yelling things like "Do you smell what The Rock is cooking?!", would be able to pull of something like that.  Glad Spencer is getting the hip surgery finally.  I guess the question is now if this Eddie guy was impressed enough to drop his grievance, and Spencer will get his registration.

So, it looks like Ricky is now being courted to New England, but finds out he's only being offered $1.5 million dollars.  Is his legacy worth getting paid less then normal?

Charles gets another promotion, which I guess is a set-up for more problems with Julie.

Vernon makes it to Texas and is already putting up a brave face against the rookie.

Even by this show's standards, the strip club scene took the nudity to another level.

Overall, didn't dislike this season, but it did feel like nothing really big happened, other then Spencer's drama.  And I felt like a lot of the supporting characters didn't factor in much.  I swear, I almost forgot all about Vernon at times.

[DrSpaceman73]

Its an enjoyable show, but if you think about it, would you really want Spencer in charge of your money?  OK, so he has the benefit of hindsight and experience blowing all his own money.  Really though, Eddie George I agree with.  He has no real education in finances.  He bankrupted his teammates.  You watch him week after week and it seems he has learned very little.  He cusses out and gets mad at his boss before he understands what is going on in the first meeting.  He blackmails and forces his way into finding out it was Eddie George who filed the complaint.  In the process of trying to get his certification from the NFLPA, he violates any number of rules they have for agents and financial managers.  Still has anger issues.  There is some growth there from his playing days, but is it enough?  I am really not sure

It was a great speech he made and I am sure it will result in him being certified and getting another chance at the company next season.  I am still not sure he deserves it though

Also.......its completely stupid to practice football in the sand.  Especially if you are a New England Patriot.  They NFL had a pro bowl related game once on the beach, back in the late 90s, beach football or something.  Robert Edwards, NE running back, ruined his knee and never really played again because of playing in that game on the beach.  They never again tried such an event for that very reason. 

Superbowls do not matter much for the HOF for WRs either.  Its much more about stats.  I am not saying its not a factor, but many WRs have made the HOF without winning a SB.  In fact of the SB era WRs in the HOF, just a rough estimate from a few minutes of looking at the list, a little more than half never won a SB.  Same will apply to those going in the next 5-10 years.  Of the ones that did win a SB, most won once, not more.  Jerry Rice and Art Monk I think are the only multiple SB winner WRs in the HOF.  It doesn't matter nearly as much as stats for WRs.  Now does it hurt your case?  No, but its far from a necessity for a WR.  Most have PLAYED in one at least, but not won one. 

 

Edited to add :  I forgot the Steelers WRs, one or two of them from the 1970s made the HOF as well with multiple wins.  Still though, the trend applies it is not necessary to win a SB to make the HOF as a WR

Edited September 26, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[Maysie]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Its an enjoyable show, but if you think about it, would you really want Spencer in charge of your money?  OK, so he has the benefit of hindsight and experience blowing all his own money.  Really though, Eddie George I agree with.  He has no real education in finances.  He bankrupted his teammates.  You watch him week after week and it seems he has learned very little.  He cusses out and gets mad at his boss before he understands what is going on in the first meeting.  He blackmails and forces his way into finding out it was Eddie George who filed the complaint.  In the process of trying to get his certification from the NFLPA, he violates any number of rules they have for agents and financial managers.  Still has anger issues.  There is some growth there from his playing days, but is it enough?  I am really not sure

That's where I've been most of the season. I don't know if there's a way that Spencer can somehow be the face of the company without actually having to be blessed to deal with their actual money???? He has a wonderful rapport with the players and he seems to genuinely have their interests at heart . . . but everything above pretty much sums up why I wouldn't want him around my money.

Actually, the show is good at changing my perceptions of the characters and I don't feel like it's bad writing that is just changing a character to push a plot point forward. I feel like it does a pretty good job of having characters evolve and change in a natural way. I've come to like Vernon and want him to do well and Ricky's relationship with his father developed in a way I never expected. This season, I didn't particularly like Spencer much until the final moments of the episode for the reasons DrSpaceman73 outlined above (I was kind of rooting against him, actually).

I will watch next season. I'm curious about where they take Spencer from here and I want to know where Ricky lands and how he feels about going from $36 million to 1.5 because that's quite a drop.

[Ottis]

That was really Eddie George, wasn't it? It looked like him. If it was, he's a good actor, especially for a former player.

Quote

Of the ones that did win a SB, most won once, not more.  Jerry Rice and Art Monk I think are the only multiple SB winner WRs in the HOF. 

Whether Monk belonged in the HoF was a huge debate for years, maybe a decade, before he finally got in - and I think if he hadn't have made it in 2008, he never would. Offenses have changed too much, and Monk's number don't compare to today's star receivers. Plus Monk never scored in a SB (well, he did, and it was called back on a penalty). He never had a defining moment on that stage, unlike Rice. 

Back to Jarrett ... I don't know enough about his numbers, but if he had trouble even getting teams to make him an offer, I can't imagine he actually has had anywhere near a HoF career and what his dad said is all blowing smoke.

[marcee]

1 hour ago, Maysie said:

..and I want to know where Ricky lands and how he feels about going from $36 million to 1.5 because that's quite a drop.

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the $36 mil was a 10 year contract. ie $3 mil a year x 10 years = $36 mil guaranteed. Whereas, as a free agent, the $1.5 mil is just for a year. And if he does well, stands to make a whole lot more.

Obv. I can't do math, but let's just $3.6 mil a year for 10 years, just so you don't snicker and call me dumb.

Edited September 26, 2016 by marcee
no can do math

[Maysie]

6 minutes ago, marcee said:

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the $36 mil was a 10 year contract. ie $3 mil a year x 10 years = $36 mil guaranteed. Whereas, as a free agent, the $1.5 mil is just for a year. And if he does well, stands to make a whole lot more.

I thought it was a four year contract, but I could be way off base on that. According to the show's website, Ricky's in the final years of his career, so I doubt anyone would be offering him a ten year contract; I don't think he has that much time left in him (and I doubt a team would take on that burden for ten years for a player in his twilight, but I'm not really up to speed on the wheelings and dealings of NFL teams). Even still, a 1.5 offer for one year is still quite a hit from 3.6. And yeah, a good year in New England at 1.5 could mean a lot more in future years, but if he's in the end of his career, I'd think he'd be looking to bank some cash because those future years may not happen if he has a meh year or he gets injured.

42 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Back to Jarrett ... I don't know enough about his numbers, but if he had trouble even getting teams to make him an offer, I can't imagine he actually has had anywhere near a HoF career and what his dad said is all blowing smoke.

Well, he's had several teams express interest and a 36 million dollar offer is pretty solid, imo. And the Saints withdrew their offer after Ricky's dad blew it on social media. It seems he hasn't been hurting from lack of interest - Buffalo, New Orleans, LA, Miami and now New England (and wasn't St. Louis mentioned too?) I can't remember all the numbers being bandied around, nor all the teams they discussed, but it seems like he's had a respectable amount of interest in his talents. As far as Hall of Fame stuff goes, I have no idea whether in real life he'd be a contender. I sensed that Ricky wasn't too concerned about the Hall of Fame until his dad mentioned it; Ricky was all about "show me the love" and I felt like that meant a combination of money, relationships/chemistry, winning and environment. Ricky's dad has really affected his options and his decision-making process and I can't get a read on where his dad's motives are in the whole process - is it purely in Ricky's best interest or what else is going on there?

[marcee]

Now that I'm thinking it through, I'm wondering if it wasn't $12 mil a year for 3 years. I'm thinking that makes more sense. And yeah, that's quite a hit. Because I think the Dolphins had originally offered him something like $8 or $9 mil/yr and he sniffed at that. Let's just pretend I didn't say anything and you guys can just go ahead and call me dumb and I won't fault you.

On the bright side, my math probably isn't as bad as Spencer's.

I <3 Joe. And not just because he can travel back in time via hot tub.

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, Ottis said:

That was really Eddie George, wasn't it? It looked like him. If it was, he's a good actor, especially for a former player.

Whether Monk belonged in the HoF was a huge debate for years, maybe a decade, before he finally got in - and I think if he hadn't have made it in 2008, he never would. Offenses have changed too much, and Monk's number don't compare to today's star receivers. Plus Monk never scored in a SB (well, he did, and it was called back on a penalty). He never had a defining moment on that stage, unlike Rice. 

Back to Jarrett ... I don't know enough about his numbers, but if he had trouble even getting teams to make him an offer, I can't imagine he actually has had anywhere near a HoF career and what his dad said is all blowing smoke.

 I know Monk took a long time to get in.  There is also Stallworth and Lynn Swann, they are the two Steelers WRs who made it based basically on SBs and big catches.  (Though not as big as one would think......Swann's most famous catch that is shown on every highlight reel of his in history, if I recall correctly, Pitt didn't even score on that series).  Their numbers, I think even for their era, were, overall, I will be kind, subpar.  Compared to today's WRs, they are laughable.  But they had FOUR Superbowl wins and played on the team of the decade. In this day and age you need a good decade of solid to spectacular numbers, even then its questionable for WRs.  So many players put up such big numbers.  SB wins don't factor in as much for most WRs, so yes, his dad just is in the middle of a pipe dream

 

As to his salary I am guessing it was $36 million for 4 years.  Not even sure a 10 year contract is allowed under the CBA, certainly would not sign a WR to a 10 year deal.  I think his contract averaged out to $9-10 million a year with the rams, which is comparable to good but not top salaried WRs today.  ANd much less than $1.5 million a year. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[Traveller519]

Super Bowls would certainly help a receiver with good stats case for the hall. But in the modern era being an identifiable player probably means just as much. Most of the more recent entries played the vast majority of their career with one or two teams, and most did at least make it to a Super Bowl.

I wonder if we're supposed to believe that Ricky's seasons with the Packers came after their 2011 Super Bowl. Either way, it may make the most sense to go back there, and be an identifiable Packer. If there's another season, I'm sure he'll have gone to one of the three teams on his list if they were the Super Bowl winner, or one of his original contracts.

Is the conflict with Andre done? Is Andy Garcia coming back? A lot happened in the last episode, it's a shame the season was so slow to get here.

[paigow]

Canton, OH looks no different from Los Angeles....assuming Joe & Spencer did not bring coke and other drugs through TSA checkpoints, the dealers were very accessible...the strippers did not look like small market regulars...Jay Glazer going to report on who was consuming controlled substances?

[paigow]

7 hours ago, Maysie said:

It seems he hasn't been hurting from lack of interest - Buffalo, New Orleans, LA, Miami and now New England (and wasn't St. Louis mentioned too?) 

LA = St. Louis.... The show acknowledges the real world St. Louis Rams have relocated to LA

[Ottis]

Quote

Well, he's had several teams express interest and a 36 million dollar offer is pretty solid, imo. And the Saints withdrew their offer after Ricky's dad blew it on social media. It seems he hasn't been hurting from lack of interest - Buffalo, New Orleans, LA, Miami and now New England (and wasn't St. Louis mentioned too?) I can't remember all the numbers being bandied around, nor all the teams they discussed, but it seems like he's had a respectable amount of interest in his talents.

True, however, as the show played out Ricky's situation, the offers didn't all stream in. There was a lag, with little movement. I think Miami made a subpar offer first. Then Spence and team working the phones. Then an offer from NO. Then Ricky trying to make a decision. Then, when he had made a decision, another offer, from Buffalo.  Then, later, a very cheap, one-year offer from NE. This all took place over a number of days or weeks. So it isn't like Ricky was a highly coveted free agent with multiple offers. It took time, and his team working the phones, to make it happen. That was my point. And if that's the case, then I don't see how HoF over his last three years factors into his decision, because he doesn't appear to be viewed that way. This isn't Reggie White going from Philly to GB, with many teams courting Ricky. This is a "convince me" process, both ways.

[Maysie]

On 9/26/2016 at 8:24 PM, paigow said:

LA = St. Louis.... The show acknowledges the real world St. Louis Rams have relocated to LA

Thank you. I can't keep the comings and goings straight anymore. I watch football, but I focus on the teams my teams play. I knew the Rams were going back to LA, but I didn't know if it had already happened.

 

On 9/27/2016 at 9:43 AM, Ottis said:

True, however, as the show played out Ricky's situation, the offers didn't all stream in. There was a lag, with little movement. I think Miami made a subpar offer first. Then Spence and team working the phones. Then an offer from NO. Then Ricky trying to make a decision. Then, when he had made a decision, another offer, from Buffalo.  Then, later, a very cheap, one-year offer from NE. This all took place over a number of days or weeks. So it isn't like Ricky was a highly coveted free agent with multiple offers. It took time, and his team working the phones, to make it happen. That was my point. And if that's the case, then I don't see how HoF over his last three years factors into his decision, because he doesn't appear to be viewed that way. This isn't Reggie White going from Philly to GB, with many teams courting Ricky. This is a "convince me" process, both ways.

Yeah, there was definitely some working the phones going on, and I wonder if there was some "well, so and so is interested so maybe you better step up to keep them from getting him" (but do teams do that? And even if he's had this really stellar career that we don't get in the show's narrative, do teams care about taking a future hall of famer in his twilight years, knowing that when he goes to Canton that he'll go in with the team that essentially brought him to the dance?). Anyway, it's not like it was all crickets, but it wasn't like it was a bidding war for him either. It does make me wonder 1) what his dad is/was thinking about the Hall of Fame stuff and 2) which is the more skewed offer - the $36 million or the $1.5 million? Those are some wildly different numbers. I guess value is relative based on what the team needs, which is what Team Ricky needs to keep in mind. The teams that are basically set (i.e., New England) don't really need him, probably don't have room in the cap for him and make him a low offer because he'd be nice to have but won't make or break them in the end. I'm assuming that whoever offered the $36 million contract had a Ricky-sized hole they needed to fill.

[Ottis]

Quote

2) which is the more skewed offer - the $36 million or the $1.5 million? 

Good question, and one I hadn't considered. I think I assumed Belichick (NE) was a jerk and low balled, but that's a huge difference even if you include that factor. Probably would have gone down smoother if they had Dallas or Washington overbid instead of NO. then you could blame it on Jones/Snyder. This is where the show's inability to give us footage of the players on the field hurts, because we don't see anything special about Ricky without that context.

BTW, thank goodness Spence went to the doc. Not sure what was going on with his hip at the end, but that discoloration screamed blood poisoning or gout/amputation. Get thee to a doctor.

[right]

My understanding was the offers for Ricky were all for 3 years, with New Orleans being a 30 mil offer, Miami 27 mil and LA for 36 mil.  Charles had convinced Ricky to stay in Miami for the 9 million per year and then the call from LA for 12 million per year came in and he started to back track.  I missed what happened to the Miami offer?  And now we have the Patriot receivers coming to Ricky working him out and then offering a super low ball offer of 1.5 million.  

[Traveller519]

The Patriots offer could be based on their salary cap situation in the alternate timeline of the show. "Sure we'd love to have Ricky's talent, but it's all we can afford at the moment." Very few people on the Patriots make record setting contracts. You sign there as a free agent because you know it's your best chance to win, not because they're going to pay you the most.