S02.E09: Sexy Sadie

[shapeshifter]

Quote

Hodiak finds Emma in a sanatorium but will need some help to get her out. Shafe struggles to kick his worsening heroin habit before it's too late.

Edited August 28, 2016 by shapeshifter

[thuganomics85]

Aww, fuck! Bunchy!!  We didn't see his corpse at least, but it look like he took at least one to the chest (maybe even near the heart?) and one in the shoulder, so things are not looking good for him!  I'm confused over who it was.  It seems like the lady Chairman gave that envelop too knew what was going on, but the Red Unit were apparently the ones behind Bunchy's fake arrest, so where they actually trying to get him out of harm's way. It would be kind of ironic if Hodiak and Shafe accidentally did him more harm then good.  Still a bit confused about what is exactly going on with that part.

Oh, shit!  Hal so fucked over Ken and Grace.  I guess paralyzing someone might cause a little bit of ill-feelings.

Speaking of Ken and Grace, how did he suddenly become a better parent of the duo? It sounded like it was Grace behind sending Emma to a psych ward and was she also the one who put her into electroshock therapy?  Either way, Grace is stone-cold!

Shafe is feeling better, but has to likely accept that he'll always be an addict and even likely relapse again.

Hodiak's got a much younger girlfriend, now!  Hey, she's gorgeous, so congrats, Hodiak! 

Sadie's water broke!  Can't wait to see Charlie's reaction to her going to hospital.  Once he quits stalking Dennis and Terry.  Boundaries, dude!

[Fable]

17 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Speaking of Ken and Grace, how did he suddenly become a better parent of the duo? It sounded like it was Grace behind sending Emma to a psych ward and was she also the one who put her into electroshock therapy?  Either way, Grace is stone-cold!

I actually used to like Grace at some point and couldn’t stand Ken, but I was glad when he actually dumped her.  You’re right, she is stone cold.  I’ve never been a fan of Emma’s but I did feel badly for her in this episode. 

As for Bunchy, I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.  I know he was shot to death, but I looked it up, and it was January of 1969, and this episode apparently took place in November 1968, but since this show is only loosely based on historical events, it might be irrelevant. 

[tennisgurl]

No! Bunchy! Considering his actual historical death isn't for a few years, and we did not actually see him die, I am just assuming that he is going to be fine. 

Grace has sure turned nasty. So nasty that Ken seems like the nice parent! That is a new low. 

Finally looks like things are getting better for Shafe, hope it keeps up. And this show has finally made me feel bad for Emma. For now anyway. 

[Fable]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

 

No! Bunchy! Considering his actual historical death isn't for a few years, and we did not actually see him die, I am just assuming that he is going to be fine.

 

Actually his historical death is only 2 months away, which is why I'm thinking the show may just skip the accuracy and leave him dead.  

[GodsBeloved]

10 hours ago, Fable said:

Actually his historical death is only 2 months away, which is why I'm thinking the show may just skip the accuracy and leave him dead.  

I was reading up on heroin detox treatment and it can last up to 6 months. We know Brian started his treatment in early November, the start of the episode. A bit over half way through the episode, per his counselor, he was down to his last session and "closing in on 100" so it's possible the show is staying true to the timeline of Bunchy Carter's death.

Edited August 29, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

I was reading up on heroin detox treatment and it can last up to 6 months. We know Brian started his treatment in early November, the start of the episode. A bit over half way through the episode, per his counselor, he was down to his last session and "closing in on 100" so it's possible the show is staying true to the timeline of Bunchy Carter's death.

I wonder if detox treatment in 1968-9 was based on studies, or if they were just starting to figure it out. The detox lady expected Shafe to fall off the wagon regularly. Anyway, I think it was more like a few weeks than 6 months because it wasn't cool to officially seek treatment as a cop, even if the problem started as part of an undercover sting. 

ETA: Parallel to Shafe's drug addiction treatment was Emma's shock treatment. They did a good job of showing the horrors of 1960s methods. Shock treatment therapy has made a comeback in recent years; I believe it is done much more humainly as depicted on Homeland. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by shapeshifter

[Jordan Baker]

After Manson is denied use of the telephone (and, BTW, who was the man who closed the door after Sharon Tate said it was OK?), he has what seems to be a flash-forward to the murders. I'm not sure how to interpret the scene. Are we to assume he decided at that moment to get revenge on the people in the house? Or are we to assume he's having some weird, psychic vision of the future?

[reggiejax]

Quote

Actually his historical death is only 2 months away, which is why I'm thinking the show may just skip the accuracy and leave him dead.  

Yeah, I wouldn't get too bogged down with accuracy with this show. This very same episode showed Sadie going into labor with little Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz, but real life tells us that he was born in October 1968, not in November, or whatever point in time they are at when we are shown Sadie's water breaking. So maybe it wasn't January 1969, which is when the real Bunchy bit the dust, but I think we can assume, in terms of the Aquarius universe, Bunchy has shuffled off this mortal coil.

Quote

After Manson is denied use of the telephone (and, BTW, who was the man who closed the door after Sharon Tate said it was OK?), he has what seems to be a flash-forward to the murders. I'm not sure how to interpret the scene. Are we to assume he decided at that moment to get revenge on the people in the house? Or are we to assume he's having some weird, psychic vision of the future?

No names are mentioned, but I am certain that was meant to be a photographer friend of Sharon Tate's, Shahrokh Hatami. This was pretty close to the reality of that moment. Hatami was at the house the one time Manson visited. He spoke with Manson and did brush him off, though rather than shut the door on him, he told him to visit with the owner of the home, Rudy Altobelli, who was staying in the guest house. Sharon Tate and Charles Manson did come face to face, sort of. Tate stepped out of the door and met eyes with Manson, who was standing on the lawn. They never spoke, they never shook hands, and Sharon Tate certainly never gave Manson permission to use the phone (Manson didn't ask anyway).

And while he was looking for Melcher, it was not because Manson just had to rush over to tell Melcher all about The White Album, as the show portrays. As usual, Manson was there to inquire about his own stillborn recording career.

As for the "flash forwards", I am guessing that was more for our benefit, as it was meant to portray the moment Manson began his descent into murder. Or not, who can tell with this show.

And now that I think about it, that is another timeline discrepancy. Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski did not move to the house on Cielo Drive until February of 1969, and the encounter with Manson did not happen until a couple of months later. So yeah, I wouldn't hold out hope for Bunchy based on the timeline not being quite right.

Edited August 29, 2016 by reggiejax

[helenamonster]

I think all the confusion with the timeline in this episode might be because they jumped ahead a few months almost every commercial break. At the start of the episode, it was still late summer/early fall, I think, cuz the time stamp after the murder flashforwards was something like "11 months earlier" of "12 months earlier." Then they had the time stamp for the night of the election, then Bunchy was (presumably) murdered, then Manson showing up at the Polanski house, which, according to the Manson Family Wikipedia page, occurred on March 23, 1969, right before Sharon Tate left for Italy to film The Thirteen Chairs. (I remember a bit in Helter Skelter where Sharokh Hatami says that when he and Tate were on the plane to Italy, she asked him if Manson had come back to the door at all, and that was all she ever mentioned about it.) So it's quite possible that all of the events in this episode happened at the correct times, but the massive jumping ahead made it hard to keep track of them.

I kind of like Hal turning into the magnificent bastard, if only because Ken and Grace are officially the fucking worst. Whoo, are they gonna have some regrets choosing Nixon over their daughter when Watergate rolls around.

I was never particularly fond of Emma but what Grace did to her was awful and inexcusable. However, it's starting to make a little more sense how she winds up going back to Manson eventually. Her fried memory might have blotted out some of the more unpleasant moments, and couple that with Manson's skillful brainwashing and it starts to make sense.

Also making sense is Shafe finding the St. Christopher medal and recognizing it. First Hodiak gave it to Shafe to help him through detox, then Emma.

Apologies if I mentioned something that happened in the last episode in this thread. I watched them back-to-back last night so things got a little muddled. The cute detox lady was in this episode, right? She looks really familiar. She is a bit young for Hodiak but they have a nice vibe. Doubt it will last very long.

[smiley13]

Emma was shown as very pregnant in the flash forward scenes, so she must go back to Manson very quickly, unless something happened to her at the mental hospital.

[reggiejax]

Quote

I was never particularly fond of Emma but what Grace did to her was awful and inexcusable.

I was confused about why Grace would have Emma locked up. We are shown in an earlier episode that Emma's continued absence is beginning to look strange to the other ladies of the GOP Auxiliary, or whatever the hell that was. So Grace decides that the best way to deal with the fact that her lie about Emma being in France was becoming more and more untenable is to institutionalize Emma? What was Grace's plan, to keep her there until the Nixon administration left office? 4 years for sure, 8 max? (5 1/2 as it would turn out, but Grace couldn't know that in 1968). And correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't their first solution to the Emma problem to emancipate her? That happened in season one. And if she was emancipated, how can Grace have Emma institutionalized? And not for nothing, but as far as Grace knew, Emma was with Dennis Wilson and was trying to get a singing career started. Was that such an awful thing to tell Plastic Pat and the rest of the GOP wives?

[GodsBeloved]

1 hour ago, reggiejax said:

I was confused about why Grace would have Emma locked up. We are shown in an earlier episode that Emma's continued absence is beginning to look strange to the other ladies of the GOP Auxiliary, or whatever the hell that was. So Grace decides that the best way to deal with the fact that her lie about Emma being in France was becoming more and more untenable is to institutionalize Emma? What was Grace's plan, to keep her there until the Nixon administration left office? 4 years for sure, 8 max? (5 1/2 as it would turn out, but Grace couldn't know that in 1968). And correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't their first solution to the Emma problem to emancipate her? That happened in season one. And if she was emancipated, how can Grace have Emma institutionalized? And not for nothing, but as far as Grace knew, Emma was with Dennis Wilson and was trying to get a singing career started. Was that such an awful thing to tell Plastic Pat and the rest of the GOP wives?

When Grace was talking to her father about the ladies asking about Emma, she also said Emma "being in LA doing God knows what" or something along those lines. I took that to mean Emma being in LA doing God knows what increased the chances of people finding out she wasn't in Paris. Locking her up would make it less likely people would find out where she actually was/what she was actually doing.

Edited September 1, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[shapeshifter]

I assumed that what Grace did to Emma was a cross between the technique of kidnapping and "deprogramming" for teens that had joined cults at that time period, and what happened to Rosemary Kennedy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosemary_Kennedy#Lobotomy