Jane The Virgin Needs To Get Rid Of Michael...Permanently

[Primetimer]

Haley Chouinard is not a crackpot. She just thinks it's time to kill off Michael so that Jane The Virgin can evolve past its gimmicky love triangle.

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[songfiregrrl]

Keep Michael. Give him standard telenovela amnesia. Jane a finally give up the fight for him to remember, need an annulment, fall in love, and have him remember on her next wedding day.

[Swellcatt]

Keep Michael. Give him standard telenovela amnesia. Jane a finally give up the fight for him to remember, need an annulment, fall in love, and have him remember on her next wedding day.

I think that's perfect! They haven't had an amnesia storyline yet! I bet that's what they will do.

[Artsda]

Michael's a great character, he shouldn't be killed at all. If the triangle needs to end and it does, just have Rafael move on. He's the only one making it a triangle still. Not Michael or Jane.

[stagmania]

I agree that the show can't really go on with Jane and Michael happily married this early in the story, but I'm torn on whether I want them to go through with killing him. I think it's more likely they'll do some kind of edge of death/amnesia plot. It's a telenovela after all, and I don't think we'll ever be done with the triangle.

[Lady Calypso]

I think what's ridiculous about this article that it seems to boil down to: "Well, Michael and Jane shouldn't be happy this early on. Kill him off because poor Rafael won't get Jane if Michael stays on the show and the show will suffer because of him living instead of dying." Which...no, I don't agree with at all. It seems like the author is biased in her Jane/Rafael ship that she can't see how Michael is good for the show, whether he's with Jane or not. Just like how Rafael is good for the show, whether he's also with Jane or not.

Plus, I know that they won't stay married; I knew that going into the show that Jane wouldn't be a married woman so early on. I even figured that Jane/Michael wouldn't go through with the wedding! However, she's gotta settle down eventually and there can be actual plots within a marriage that would work. Just because Jane isn't with Rafael, it doesn't mean they wouldn't still have some good plots of their own. But this author seems concerned with Rafael's role in the matter by subtly slipping it in near the end, and there seems to be concerned with Jane settling down and not being able to date 'hunky graduate school professors' along the way. That doesn't mean you kill someone vital to the show off so casually, just so Jane can have a for sure endgame in Rafael. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[SeanBottai]

You're breakin' my heart, Haley! Ouch ouch ouch ouch :)

[Sulis]

I have to say I agree with Artsda. I enjoy Michael as a character plus I don't see why Rafael should be endgame. Others have suggested some twists that could happen other than Michael's death.

Also, how long do telenovelas last? I was under the impression they don't last as long as American series, though I may well be wrong. As much as I like Jane the Virgin, I find my patience runs out quite quickly with the standard 20-something episodes a season shows. Do we know how many series they are planning?

[NUguy514]

Actually, you are a crackpot, but I suspect that is heavily tied to your obvious preference for Rafael; as doram said, there's no way this article would have been written if Rafael had been in Michael's place.

[Irlandesa]

Well I'll be one who says that you aren't a crackpot.  You may hold an unpopular opinion (at least here) but you aren't a crackpot.  I'm biased, though, because I've long held a similar position.

Shipping preferences aside, although it's the show that keeps the triangle going because there's an audience for it, I do wonder where the show means to go with how they've developed Jane and Michael down the stretch.

Does marriage have to mean boring?  No. But Jane The Virgin hasn't really planted the seeds of what could be interesting about a married Jane.  They've decided to put Jane and Michael on the same page.  That's great in real life but it makes for some pretty dull drama.  Amnesia doesn't completely cure that unless one or the other completely moves on.  I suppose they could introduce some philosophical differences later but, as of right now, no seeds have been planted.

[cardigirl]

NooooOoOoOooooo, I love Michael!!!!

[venezia54]

No, you are not a crackpot! A lot of people feel the same way. I loved Season 1. It was funny, romantic, and the scenes between Raf and Jane were just magical.  We began to see Jane evolving into an adult woman, exploring passion, sexuality, love, and heartbreak. The themes--Raf versus Michael, writing versus teaching, brave versus practical, heart versus head--all were very clearly delineated  to reflect Jane's conflicted nature.  Rafael and Jane had off-the-charts chemistry--which is what hooked me. At the end of Season 1, I was looking forward to her trials and tribulations with Raf, and their obstacles, and their both growing as people and parents. And Jane becoming her own woman. Michael always seems like a non-essential, secondary character. 

But then--Season 2, and Michael is now front and center. Raf tries to redeem himself but is shut down again and again--poor guy. Jane is no longer likeable. It's All About Her now. And the writers seem to think that her little dramas are interesting just by virtue of being hers. Grad school! Snore. The professor? Rando! Jane and Michael in a sugary, Disneyfied YA romance? Kill me now.  Being a "'virgin" isn't just sexual. It means being a virgin in terms of experience, risk-taking, growing up. In choosing Michael, Jane decided to stay a virgin--even if she does has sex with him.

If Michael lives, and I"m sure he will, there are all sorts of places they could take the storyline. But I won't care, because to me, they are fundamentally uninteresting as a couple. I will watch it for the other characters--but I think the show really needs to get some focus back. They need more Jane/Raf scenes, even if not as a romantic couple.  Michael doesn't feel like a character all his own. He just feels like an extension of Jane.  Raf, on the other hand, is a fully-formed, complex, flawed, character who sees Jane for who she really is. He calls her on her crap. They argue. The mediate. They negotiate. They laugh. That's what REAL, healthy couples do. Because they are different, they learn from each other. I don't see that happening with Michael. 

[Artsda]

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 Jane is no longer likeable. It's All About Her now. And the writers seem to think that her little dramas are interesting just by virtue of being hers. Grad school! Snore. The professor? Rando! Jane and Michael in a sugary, Disneyfied YA romance? Kill me now.

The show is called Jane the Virgin. The show is about her life and was since day 1.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Artsda

[Lady Calypso]

15 hours ago, venezia54 said:

But then--Season 2, and Michael is now front and center. Raf tries to redeem himself but is shut down again and again--poor guy. Jane is no longer likeable. It's All About Her now. And the writers seem to think that her little dramas are interesting just by virtue of being hers. Grad school! Snore. The professor? Rando! Jane and Michael in a sugary, Disneyfied YA romance? Kill me now.  Being a "'virgin" isn't just sexual. It means being a virgin in terms of experience, risk-taking, growing up. In choosing Michael, Jane decided to stay a virgin--even if she does has sex with him.

 

Personally, I don't see the issue with Michael being more in the spotlight this season, as Rafael was the one in the spotlight season 1. I just see them going back and forth between romances, which is dumb, but whatever. Also, what's wrong with a happy relationship? Jane/Rafael had their chance. I'm positive they'll have their chance again. I'd say that Jane/Michael's romance is more functional than a YA romance. It's more mature and realistic. There's nothing really to say poor Rafael. He makes his own choices, just like each character makes their own choices. Rafael, as much as I do like him, has his own flaws and he's not exactly a victim here. Much like Michael had to work his way to being redeemed and he got there this season. 

The show messed up on breaking Michael/Jane up in early season 1, and then not only having Michael disappear completely from her life for 10+ episodes, but also having Jane/Rafael jump into a relationship immediately. Michael was underwritten in season 1 because they had no clue what to do with him besides throw in some random cop drama. And then once they did figure out what they could do, it was almost the end of season 1 and they had dedicated at least 15 minutes each episode to Jane/Rafael. I've never seen them take that much consideration for Jane/Michael while leaving Rafael completely out of it. 

I say that as a fan of Jane/Michael but also as a fan of Jane/Rafael. I just think that it's realistic for Jane/Rafael to drift apart after Mateo was born. I know they're getting back together, but it's actually nice that Jane did make a solid choice after Mateo was born. Now they're going to make Michael or Jane look like an ass and that's how they're going to make Rafael look like a better person because they can't write themselves out of the corner that they're in. It becomes twice as hard with Jane moved on from Rafael and married to Michael. I personally love the realistic aspect Jane/Michael have as a couple. The problem is that most television shows feel like they need drama and angst and twists for couples because they don't know how to write for anything else. When, really, there are thousands of possibilities that doesn't include breaking up couples every season, or having them in major fights every other episode. 

[vixenbynight]

Doram wrote:

"She doesn't have to wreck herself to be happy. She doesn't have to destroy her life, or throw away her fundamental personality to "grow". Growth is about discovering who you are, and being with someone who understands you and appreciates you for yourself - not being "challenged" to become something else for another person. That's the opposite of growth."

Thank you for the above. It boggles my mind, that some viewers and even critics have the idea and belief, that for a character to be interesting, that they HAVE to "challenge" themselves, by willing to not go with the guy that initially values them, shows that they matter and that they would do anything for them. That these characters,  should throw the other character over,  for the character they made out with, who couldn't remember their name or the fact that they work in the same industry. 

Also, if Jane does end up with Rafael during this time, wouldn't he feel that if Michael hadn't died that she would never have chosen him? 

That the only reason she has chosen him, is due to losing Michael.

If you are a Rafael fan, why in the world would you want that for that character? 

Edited August 8, 2016 by vixenbynight

[JustaPerson]

I'd feel a lot more sympathy for Rafael if it wasn't completely his own fault that he lost Jane. I'm not talking about the outside circumstances that led to him dumping her, but he deliberately chose to tell Jane that he didn't love her anymore (which was a lie) which closed the door on their relationship and forced her to move on. Granted that's what he wanted, and it worked but when he realized that was a mistake she was already gone. He has no one to blame but himself imo. He made his own bed, and I feel like it would be cheap if the show went back and got them back together

[Irlandesa]

On 8/7/2016 at 3:29 AM, doram said:

 who she did not have an easy relationship with (where do people get this from? Jane/Michael was never Disneyfied YA romance). 
 

Where did we get it from?  Back half of season 2.  The reasons they were apart were buried in plot point graveyard instead of dealt with.  If they disagreed it lasted a scene or two at most.  

Jane, as the main character, has flaws but I never feel they're presented as a significant handicap to her life.  And in the back half of season 2 they wrote Michael as basically flawless.  

Quote

But the truth is that... choosing the "tumultuous", unpredictable, "challenging" relationship ... that's the opposite of maturity.

But challenging doesn't have to have the very negative connotation you apply to it. Or it doesn't when I think of challenge.  (And I'm not some dude trying to neg a girl into sleeping with him.)  I see this story as a coming of age story.  And in that coming of age story, there is growth but it also needs something to push the drama and story forward.  To me, "challenge" isn't about fights or arguments but rather about challenging judgments and perceptions.  It's about expanding one's view of the world It's about watching flawed characters work through those flaws. 

Jane and Rafael were interesting to me because I felt their differences and flaws "challenged" their perceptions and both learned and grew from it even though it ended in heartache. I liked watching a duo navigate differences. But he's not the only person who has challenged her.  Mateo and being a mother has challenged her.  Rogelio challenges her. Her advisors challenge her. Even her relationship with her mother can challenge her.  As long as Jane has prejudgments (and goodness does she have many), she's going to be challenged. I don't get that from michael.

Being with someone whom the main character is on the same page with (whether it's because that's the way they are naturally or whether a duo grows to that point as a couple) feels like a happily ever after final point. 

But it's only season 2!  The shooting is an example of how a writer gets boxed in with the internal symbiosis....they had to look to externally for drama.

8 hours ago, vixenbynight said:

Also, if Jane does end up with Rafael during this time, wouldn't he feel that if Michael hadn't died that she would never have chosen him? 

That the only reason she has chosen him, is due to losing Michael.

If you are a Rafael fan, why in the world would you want that for that character?

Two points:

1) At the end of season 2 his "love" interests on the show were his ex-wife who stole his sperm twice and accused him of beating her up (maybe it's because of how hard it is for real life victims to get justice/be believed it's one area I have a tough time going 'only a soap') and another basically raping him through deception.

So the idea that he might end up with a woman he still loves who might still carry a torch for her late spouse doesn't exactly fill me up with "oh nooooez" angst.   Hell, she could build a shrine to Michael and kiss his picture three times a day and I'd still find the situation about a million times better than the one he's in now.

2) But I don't see that happening.  First choice and second choice is a shippers' argument that I'm sure many would engage in but I find less relevant if one of the love interests is dead.  Going back to the notion that this show is from Jane's POV, I think IF they decided to kill off her husband that won't relegate her to feeling dissastisfied with whoever she ends up with for the rest of her life.  That's not how they've written her romances so far and I don't think it's how they'd write them going forward.

Besides, I don't think Rafael is quite the romantic in the way that Jane is right now that he'd get too worked up about not being her first husband.  He was married, got cancer, had a father who was married multiple times and had a mother who abandoned him.  I think he's probably more prepared for the imperfections of life than anyone else on the show other than maybe Petra.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Irlandesa

[vixenbynight]

On 8/9/2016 at 2:51 AM, Irlandesa said:

Besides, I don't think Rafael is quite the romantic in the way that Jane is right now that he'd get too worked up about not being her first husband.  He was married, got cancer, had a father who was married multiple times and had a mother who abandoned him.  I think he's probably more prepared for the imperfections of life than anyone else on the show other than maybe Petra.

Rafael fantasized about attempting to tell Jant to not go through and marry Michael on their wedding day. 

Rafael is a total romantic,especially after he realized that he wasn't really in love with Petra. 

He would never emotionally be prepared for putting himself in the role of being second choice for Jane, because Michael, her true love (which she admitted to Rafael's face) died.

[Irlandesa]

17 hours ago, vixenbynight said:

Rafael fantasized about attempting to tell Jant to not go through and marry Michael on their wedding day. Rafael is a total romantic,especially after he realized that he wasn't really in love with Petra. 

Yes, he fantasized about it but he didn't go through with it. I said that Rafael wasn't quite the romantic that Jane is not that he wasn't romantic. 

Quote

He would never emotionally be prepared for putting himself in the role of being second choice for Jane, because Michael, her true love (which she admitted to Rafael's face) died.

You're right.  If Jane made it clear that Rafael was second choice and they got together right after Michael died, I don't think Rafael would accept it. I don't think any man would.

But, as I said above, I don't think that's how the show would write it.  Jane says a lot of stuff.  For a year, she was telling Michael that they were never getting back together and then they did.  When Rafael asked how they could just be over, she told him that things "changed."  And that's it.  Things change.  Their lives will change. 

Sure, the show could take the viewpoint that she lost the love of her life and everyone is second best for the rest of her life but if people feel killing Michael is too dark for this show, then that would be even darker.   And I don't see the show taking that route.  People lose spouses, mourn them but live fully realized lives with others without feeling the need to rank them.

If the show kills Michael (and that's a big IF), that'd be part of her journey.  As for Rafael, well, that might be part of his as well.   

Anyway, this is all likely moot since they likely aren't killing Michael.  I was just trying to explain why, as a Rafael fan, I wouldn't have a problem with the show choosing to go with death because while I think 1st choice/2nd choice is common in triangles where both options are available, one of them dying alters the construction of the narrative IMO.   And feeling Michael has to die isn't about not liking Michael or Brett but rather the narrative the show chose to pursue to get them to the wedding and ultimately how limiting it feels for an ongoing show?

Edited August 12, 2016 by Irlandesa

[Ghouligan]

I would be really disappointed if Michael is killed off, but I highly doubt that he will be, and it would be a huge mistake on the part of the writers. Brett Dier is a fantastic actor. He can nail all of the comedic moments, happy moments, tragic moments, and all of the little nuanced moments. Michael is also a good character. With him dying, there's no one left to pursue Sin Rostro, and it's pretty clear that she's still going to be the major villain of the show. 

I would have preferred for Jane to be with someone other than Michael or Rafael, but it's obviously not going to be the case. They have both done some seriously messed up things. Michael had to process the shock of Jane's pregnancy and deal with it in his own way, but not telling her about Petra and Roman's affair was totally out of line. He kind of lost sight of what might be best for Jane and how her life had been turned completely upside down after the insemination. He also breaks the law by tampering with the scene of a crime (without actually knowing whether or not Petra is guilty) just to avoid Jane learning about Petra's affair. That's just a really revealing character moment for him. Despite Michael's parents assessment that "he was the one person who stood by her," Jane was totally right to end things with him after finding out he'd been lying to her. Michael was actually the only person in her life who DIDN'T stand by her and support her. Michael getting excessively violent with Rafael and Mateo ends up getting hurt, that's a huge red flag. Even though he's never given any indication that he's a violent person or would do anything remotely close to harming Jane or Mateo, a violent eruption like that is a serious problem. Rafael just seems to think that rules don't apply to him. Paying someone to lie to the police (regardless of his motivations about his father's death) just shows a lack of character. He claims that he does it because he knows that Jane wouldn't forgive him, but if he knew her at all, he'd know that this wasn't true. Jane is very forgiving and totally understood why he went to the police (even though she completely disagreed with the lying and the means through which he reported Michael) once she knew the truth. It was a huge character moment for Rafael when he chose not to profess his love for Jane for the millionth time right before her wedding. Rafael could never really take no for an answer, and he was pushy with Jane time and time again. It seems like he's the type of person who can't understand why he can't always just get what he wants. Right after Mateo is born, he keeps bombarding her with his feelings about how he never stopped loving her after she repeatedly tells him that she isn't ready. He goes in for multiple kisses even though she hasn't given him any signal that it's the right move. Anytime she had a heart to heart with him he took it as an opportunity to kiss her. It just feels like he doesn't understand her and what she needs at all, and if he does, then he doesn't respect it. He repeatedly tells her that she's throwing their family away by choosing Michael, but HE threw the family away when he broke up with her. He ended things, broke her heart, and then wants her to forgive and forget when he decides that he made a mistake. He just reminds me of a petulant child. 

Of the two, I do think that Michael is the better choice, and I would be really surprised if the show killed him off. He's more grounded than Rafael and doesn't come with the crazy baggage of Petra (who I've grown to love so much, but she's still seriously mad for inseminating herself). Part of me feels like it would be inline with the genre for Jane and Rafael to end up together in the end, but I don't see that happening if Michael lives. I guess they could write it in somehow. I don't really see how it would make sense for Jane and Michael to ever break up when they're so madly in love with each other. Setting Michael's past issues aside, he's perfect for Jane. I think it's more likely that he'll have amnesia. But the creators of the show have said that Jane is going to lose her virginity this season, and I can't imagine it happening with anyone but Michael at this point. 

I really can't wait for season three. It's just brilliant.