Chilling With Jon Murray: The Behind-The-Scenes Thread

[Lantern7]

Given how the kerfuffle over the events of The Ruins has overtaken two threads, I am starting a topic where we can talk about the inner workings of Bunim-Murray Productions, in relation to The Challenge. Thanks to Stinger97 for suggesting the direction. If you can come up for a better title for the thread, I'm all ears.

Personally, I think what happened to Tonya did happen, and it is highly indicative of the "bros will be bros" atmosphere of the show. I'm happy Evan and Kenny are persona non grata on the show (though I expect "Mr. Beautiful" to pop up on tonight's special), and I look down upon anybody who would defend them.

[KerleyQ]

Agreed.  Something happened.  For Sarah and Susie to term it "sexual misconduct" means it's more than an acceptable level of silly practical jokes (which is what I think they're trying to allude to with their "frat house hijinks" label).  Once you throw the term "sexual" on to something that happened to a woman who was passed out (or so drunk that she may as well have been passed out), it's a form of sexual assault.  Unfortunately, the Challenge houses aren't a place where you're likely to encounter a very enlightened view as to what constitutes sexual assault.  I think that, unfortunately, Sarah and Susie view what happened to Tonya as something somehow "less than" what they've each encountered in their own past assaults.  Add in their negative view of Tonya and their friendships with Kenny and Evan, and they're looking at this as a silly joke, that wouldn't have happened if Tonya wasn't such a messy drunk.  Do any of us really expect to get an honest evaluation about something that happened to Tonya from one of the ring leaders of the "We Hate Tonya" game?  

It's sad that two women who have experienced sexual assault themselves would take such a hard line stance against another victim, but it does happen.  And I hate the implication (from John, I think?) that since they were victims of assault in the past themselves, they're the definitive word on what happened now, to someone they don't like at the hands of men they do like.  

[luckyroll3]

16 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

I think that, unfortunately, Sarah and Susie view what happened to Tonya as something somehow "less than" what they've each encountered in their own past assaults.  Add in their negative view of Tonya and their friendships with Kenny and Evan, and they're looking at this as a silly joke, that wouldn't have happened if Tonya wasn't such a messy drunk.  Do any of us really expect to get an honest evaluation about something that happened to Tonya from one of the ring leaders of the "We Hate Tonya" game?

This is exactly my issue with them and their take on what happened.  Thank you for stating it more eloquently than I ever could. 

[Tatum]

Thanks for starting! If it wasn't clear from the Ruins and The Challenge in the Media thread, this is a subject I have a lot of feelings on. My personal opinion is some kind of sexual assault happened to Tonya, at the hands of Evan and Kenny, while Sarah and Susie and possibly others watched. It may not have involved actual penetration, but I am with KerleyQ's  definition of what constitutes sexual assault.

 

I would also theorize that MTV (or Viacom, or John Murray Productions, what have you) paid Tonya a settlement (I realize it is not a confirmed fact that they paid Tonya anything), not just because of what happened to her, but to also shut the door on any investigations that would reveal further sexual-assaults-masquerading-as-frat-hijinks that would create liability for the company. It is my opinion that someone on the legal team reviewed some unrelated footage and told the production squad that they have been playing with fire for a long time and there is far more lawsuit fodder that hasn't yet been brought up, so cut Tonya a check, and hope the whole matter is forgotten.

 

I am actually a little surprised Sarah went as far as to call it sexual misconduct, which is still more revealing than I thought she'd be. I am wondering if in the wake of the high profile rape cases over the last year and the outcry against not just the rapists, but also the people who went on record as rape apologists or suggested the victims in the case had some culpability, Sarah and Susie were getting attacked on social media for their association with Evan and Kenny. If so, they may have thought continuing to deny anything happened altogether (which Susie initially did, in her essay, and on twitter), made them look like liars, so they thought giving a vague explanation would lend them some more credibility. But they just look worse in my eyes. Well, Sarah does. I expected this kind of victim blaming attitude from Susie, who I think is one of the worst people ever profiled on this show, and that's saying something.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Tatum

[Tatum]

27 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

 

It's sad that two women who have experienced sexual assault themselves would take such a hard line stance against another victim, but it does happen.  And I hate the implication (from John, I think?) that since they were victims of assault in the past themselves, they're the definitive word on what happened now, to someone they don't like at the hands of men they do like.  

Yes, yes, yes, a million times this! Bananas is a dick, no doubt, but this is the first thing that he's said that's made me truly ragey at him (well, the first thing since the Island wrapped). His comment to Susie that more people will believe Kenny is innocent if Susie, a former victim, endorses him made me see red. I would not wish a sexual assault on anybody, and I am truly sorry for anything that may have happened to Susie. But exploiting her past victimhood as leverage for an alleged rape defense (which John did, not Susie) is just despicable.

[Bob Sambob]

I have nothing more to add to the discussion at this point (thanks to everyone who has voiced their opinions), but I just want to make sure: Did everyone speaking up actually listen to the podcast? Because what I typed out was not an actual transcript (some of that stuff was paraphrased from memory). If you haven't listened, it's only about the last 10 minutes or so of the podcast in question (their website appears to be down right now for maintenance, but if you look for the podcast online or on iTunes, it's called Episode 62: Rivals 3 Halfway Point Recap ... I was hoping it'd be on their YouTube page, but its not. But there are some video extras with Mark and Gauntlet Sarah).

Edited July 13, 2016 by Bob Sambob

[Tatum]

I did not listen to the podcast. I kind of don't know how podcasts work. 

Conceding there may have been some nuances to what they were saying that doesn't come over well when paraphrased from memory, the "it wasn't sexual assault, it was sexual misconduct" is an actual quote, right? 

[Tatum]

I listened to it! Thanks for the heads up both on how to find it, and that the only relevant part was the last 10 min. I started to listen from beginning and those two are boring. I skipped to end. You did a great job summarizing. A couple thoughts:

So, it was specifically brought up because Sarah said John was mean to Wes, in case anyone was wondering. One thing of note here: Sarah comes off absolutely horribly in this interview. Susie's a bitch, but she's a consistent bitch. Sarah is a flip flopper to the extreme. 

 

Sarah at first says Wes is her friend, which Susie very sternly says she doesn't understand how he sleeps at night and how Sarah stays friends with him. Sarah fumbles for a minute and then basically says she only actually talks to him when they're both on a challenge and she needs him for an alliance and can't rock the boat. She then goes on to say she doesn't know how he sleeps at night. They both agree that Wes is absolutely horrible for lying, did it out of spite (both women agree Tonya truly believes she was raped), and they both say Wes wouldn't even know because he wasn't in the room when whatever happened, happened. 

 

Another item of note- no one asked Susie anything in an official capacity. Sarah was interviewed by kenny's lawyer only. They imply that there was never any official investigation, or if there was, it involved only people who weren't actual witnesses. That was interesting because bmp said they investigated and found the accusations baseless. Susie says Katie may have been deposed or she may have been interviewed. Katie would not discuss what she said in interview or deposition with Susie when Susie asked her. 

 

Sarah does say sexual misconduct and she says what the accusation was was not what happened. They say no touching about 20 times but don't clarify whether they mean Tonya wasn't touched or that Kenny and Evan didn't touch her. When Susie says that they can be mad about the frat hijinks I was unclear whether by that she meant the incident with Tonya or just the general pranks the guys pulled. I do find it interesting that the three people who are accused of making false accusations are the three people who had the biggest problems with JEK during the show. Doesn't mean I necessarily think they're making it up but I wonder how pure their motives were for telling Tonya. I think Susie may have been implying that Wes made it up as revenge for pranks pulled on him. I think it may have been his toothbrush. 

Oh, Sarah says she didn't like the wording of John's essay. Susie said she did like it. Sarah then pulls it up, says she misread it, and now DOES like it. Sarah has no convictions. 

[Bob Sambob]

58 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I think Susie may have been implying that Wes made it up as revenge for pranks pulled on him.

I took that as Wes was still butt-hurt that Kenny moved in on Johanna on "The Island" and this was his revenge.

 

58 minutes ago, Tatum said:

They say no touching about 20 times but don't clarify whether they mean Tonya wasn't touched or that Kenny and Evan didn't touch her.

I took that as Kenny and Evan didn't put their hands on Tonya, hence my theory that they just stuck the toothbrush down her pants (or like you thought, they could've lifted her skirt or shorts with it). You could do that without "laying hands" on her.

 

58 minutes ago, Tatum said:

When Susie says that they can be mad about the frat hijinks I was unclear whether by that she meant the incident with Tonya or just the general pranks the guys pulled.

I took this to mean the Tonya incident, and not just a generalization.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Bob Sambob

[Lantern7]

Man. Is there anybody on the Challenge worth rooting for? Nice guys like Cohutta and Isaac never make it to the end.

[Tatum]

11 hours ago, Bob Sambob said:

 

I took that as Kenny and Evan didn't put their hands on Tonya, hence my theory that they just stuck the toothbrush down her pants (or like you thought, they could've lifted her skirt or shorts with it). You could do that without "laying hands" on her.

 

I guess, but odd distinction to make. Kenny and Evan could have done what they were accused of without touching her themselves. If they were saying Tonya wasn't touched however, that is something entirely different.

What I can't wrap my head around is, regardless of what "shenanigans" happened that Susie and Sarah reference, either the toothbrush was inserted in Tonya's vagina or it was not. So, either Sarah and Susie watched it happen and not only didn't stop it, but continue to deny it happened (which, for the record, I don't like either woman and wouldn't classify either of them as "good", but watching a rape and not intervening goes straight to evil territory and I'm not comfortable accusing them of that), OR- someone (be it Wes, Katie, or Veronica, or maybe someone else) found it fitting to tell a mentally ill woman who likely has already been the victim of a sexual assault in her lifetime that she was raped by a toothbrush while her castmates sat and laughed, purely so someone could exact some revenge on Evan and Kenny. And they told her long after the fact, so it wasn't like it was a heat of the moment exaggeration that got out of hand. I can't see Wes doing that either. That to me, is also evil. Susie acts like the only victims are Evan and Kenny, but Tonya is a victim, regardless of what happened because she thinks she has been raped while people sat by and didn't help her. Why wouldn't BMP just show her the tape?

[KerleyQ]

7 hours ago, Tatum said:

Why wouldn't BMP just show her the tape?

That's one of my big sticking points with the "they didn't do anything wrong" crowd.  If what they did wasn't even close to a sexual assault, if it was just some stupid prank, why not just show the video to Tonya and say "look, nothing like what you think happened, happened"?  Not only does it clear two people from serious allegations, but it eases the mind of a woman who thinks she was sexually assaulted in some manner.  Instead, they settle the case and never again allow the two accused cast members on the show - two cast members who, prior to that, they loved having on.  They were among their lead "stars" in the franchise (for whatever reasons).  If they had footage that shows that all that happened was a prank, and not anything on the level of sexual assault, they could easily have cleared the decks for Kenny and Evan to return at any time.  Think back to the CT/Adam fight.  CT literally could have killed someone that night.  It was a violent, angry, out of control storm on his part.  Did they ban CT from ever appearing again?  Nope.  Did they bury that footage and quietly pay off Adam?  Nope.  They show flashbacks of it with some regularity and paired Adam up with CT in a later season of the show.  Think of all the nasty stuff people have said and done to Tonya over various seasons.  The people in charge invited Tonya back various times precisely because they knew they'd get footage of other cast members laughing at unstable Tonya, and other cast members being cruel to unstable Tonya.  Yet this instance remains hidden.  If it was just some prank, they would have shown it.  Because that was what Tonya was there for.  It would be like not showing a "Camillanator" moment.  They invite Camilla back time after time because they know she's good for at least one good drunken angry tear through the house.  They just showed us footage again on last night's clip show of Camilla, topless, ranting and raving through the house as Paula tried to get her to calm down and cover up.  

And even given all of that, BMP doesn't need to show us the tape, but they damn well should have shown Tonya the tape.  She has the right to know exactly what happened to her that night.  That they won't show it to her or us, though, speaks volumes, given what they will show.  And that they won't ever have Kenny and Evan back on their show also speaks volumes, given the returns they've allowed of other cast members after bad behavior.  

As for the potential for a lie from Sarah/Susie vs. Wes/Katie/Veronica, here's my take:  Of the two scenarios you laid out, it just seems far more plausible to me that Sarah and Susie witnessed something happening and didn't stop it or speak up because they were maybe drunk, and they were caught up in the mob mentality, and it was being done by two people the liked to a girl they did not like at all, who was frequently the butt of people's jokes.  Since that night, they've pretty much had to keep telling themselves that what happened wasn't sexual assault, otherwise, what kind of people does it make them that they sat by and watched and never spoke up?  Either scenario would be bad, of course, but I feel like this scenario is more in line with human nature and, while disgusting, isn't born from a place of outright evil.  (Which is what I could consider the alternative of someone falsely accusing someone of sexual assault, causing emotional and mental anguish to a woman who already has so many emotional issues, just to get back at someone.)  And, honestly, Wes doesn't seem to me like a guy who spends much time obsessing over these seasons once they're over.  He seems to have a pretty full, successful life, and he seems to know that, when he shows up for these seasons, he's playing a role.  I can't see him being so angry, months after a season ends, and he's ensconced back in his real life, deciding that he needs to nurture some for the cameras grudge with something that nasty.  I believe that, by that point, Kenny and Johanna were long over, so any legitimate reason for a real life issue had passed.  It just doesn't make sense. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by KerleyQ

[Tatum]

Well said, KerleyQ.  I just can't imagine Wes being angry enough to falsely accuse someone of rape, especially because Wes, for all his faults, appears to be a pretty decent at looking at long term consequences of his actions. Susie and Sarah are stuck on the poor, falsely accused rapists, but what about some sympathy for the woman who believes she was assaulted? I just don't think Wes would be comfortable causing that kind of collateral damage in Tonya to settle a score with two people he sees a few weeks every couple of years. I suppose someone who was more short sighted might have originated the accusation (such as say, Katie) and Wes just took her at her word and believes the guys are rapists, but if that is the case, then show Tonya what happened. And more importantly SARAH- don't dance around what kind "misconduct" occurred. Just come right out and say what happened. Both girls admitted they are under no legal obligation to withhold what they know.

 

My feeling is that whether or not a rape happened, Sarah and Susie probably know they should have done more to stop the incident, whatever it was.

 

ETA: WRT Evan and Kenny being banned for life, I think there is more than just what happened to Tonya. I would bet they've got something else caught on tape that they failed to follow up on, (not necessarily anything Evan and Kenny did), and BMP wanted to start a track record of having strict policies with regards to sexual assault. If they are ever sued again, they want to be able to say, look, this is something we take very seriously. Which is a bunch of bullshit, as evidenced by Viacom's victim blaming defense they spewed. But they have to start somewhere. They made sure to make Vinny pulling Mandy's top off (and subsequent removal) an episode, and then they kicked off Nia over groping Jordan. I think they have been building their line of defense over the last 5 years.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Tatum

[luckyroll3]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

That's one of my big sticking points with the "they didn't do anything wrong" crowd.  If what they did wasn't even close to a sexual assault, if it was just some stupid prank, why not just show the video to Tonya and say "look, nothing like what you think happened, happened"?  Not only does it clear two people from serious allegations, but it eases the mind of a woman who thinks she was sexually assaulted in some manner.  Instead, they settle the case and never again allow the two accused cast members on the show - two cast members who, prior to that, they loved having on.

And before that, their statement was along the lines of, first, "What happened occurred in another country so you can't sue us here in America"; and when that nonsense didn't fly, it was, "she failed to avoid what happened because she was always intoxicated, starting fights, and flirtatious."  This is what pisses me off the most about the entire situation, because what the fuck?  And as you said KerleyQ, if it wasn't true, they would have just come out and said so, regardless if they made the footage available or not. 

47 minutes ago, Tatum said:

as evidenced by Viacom's victim blaming defense they spewed.

Exactly. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by luckyroll3

[Bob Sambob]

While Susie is not entirely likeable, I don't for one second believe that she or Sarah would watch a toothbrush be inserted into Tonya's vagina or anus and do NOTHING about it. At the same time, I don't think Wes would tell Tonya she was sexually assaulted with a toothbrush just to get revenge on Kenny for stealing Johanna away from him. Same with Veronica or Katie.

But here's the problem ...

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

Just come right out and say what happened. Both girls admitted they are under no legal obligation to withhold what they know.

Exactly. The more this gets skated around, the more we want to know. And the truth is, NONE of us were there. We have no idea what really happened. To me, the Vinny and Nia situations proved that BMP learned a little something from it since the Tonya incident pre-dates them both, but here we are, still debating about it.

This whole thing just stinks to high heaven. It always has. I just want to see the best in people, I guess. But I don't think anyone of the distinct parties involved in this (Evan and Kenny; Tonya; Wes, Veronica and Katie; and Sarah and Susie) are lying. They all believe 100 percent everything they are saying is the truth. And that's what makes this complicated.

[Remlab]

For those wondering how Tonya found out, it was speculated that Kim was the one who told Tonya about the incident, and production's reaction to it (simply replacing the toothbrush, which I think belonged to Katie) was the sole reason Kim never came back to a challenge. IIRC from TWoP, sometime after filming ended, someone told Kim and thought she would think it was funny. Kim, being the upstanding woman she is, did not find it funny, and told Tonya about the incident when she found out. Did we ever find out if that was true? I believe it was poster Manhattan who posted it, and was usually a reliable source. I could be remembering wrong though.

[Bob Sambob]

I do remember Kim saying she would never do another Challenge after her experience on The Ruins.

[Tatum]

I have a question not directly related to the alleged assault from The Ruins.

How did Susie get to be so close with Evan and Kenny? I know she and Bananas have never liked each other. Yet from day one she was partnered with Evan and Kenny, and surpassed all the girls JEK were/had been hooking up with (Ibis, Veronica, and Johanna, respectively). She was an above average competitor but no Ev or Laurel so how did she manage it?

[Lantern7]

On 9/1/2016 at 4:46 PM, KerleyQ said:

That's my biggest question in the whole thing.  How does anyone trust production any more?  Even the ones who generally just show up for the free vacations have to take pause at the idea that, if they do manage to win, they might still not get to take home a penny of the prize money.  And now that they've all actually seen the twist play out, and they've seen Sarah kick ass all season long and walk away empty handed, I would imagine that the finales are going to be such a clusterfuck most of the time.  We'll see teammates aggressively competing against each other, instead of working together, because nobody trusts that they'll get a share of the money if they aren't the top performer on their team.  Even if there is no twist announced ahead of time, they'll all just operate on the assumption that there is a possibility it can happen at any time.  

This is from the finale thread. While I can't see anybody trusting BMP, I'm sure most of the "new school" would be happy to walk in the moral minefield. And I really hope Sarah doesn't come back. Why should she? Even if a buttload of lawyers promises her $100,000 up front and access to Johnny's meager genitalia with a stick, BMP can still flip the script at any time. Also, it would be healthier for her to hang with Susie and slag the show on their podcast.

[KerleyQ]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

This is from the finale thread. While I can't see anybody trusting BMP, I'm sure most of the "new school" would be happy to walk in the moral minefield. And I really hope Sarah doesn't come back. Why should she? Even if a buttload of lawyers promises her $100,000 up front and access to Johnny's meager genitalia with a stick, BMP can still flip the script at any time. Also, it would be healthier for her to hang with Susie and slag the show on their podcast.

Yeah, I can see the newbies still signing on.  But the old school people should never want to come back.  And, yes, Sarah should definitely stay away.  I can't imagine, in her shoes, what assurances I'd need to even consider trusting them enough to sign on for another season.  

And, really, I think the number of people who production would even entertain the idea of conceding to demands is basically two - CT and John.  (Although why they cater to John's obnoxious ass, when he shows up for about 75% of the seasons already, is beyond me.)  The only other cast members I could see them willing to negotiate some demands with would be if they thought they had a shot at getting Abram and that guy who messed around with Cara Maria on Bloodlines on for a Rivals season.  You just know that's their dream Rivals pairing at this point.  

[Lantern7]

From the Media thread . . . why the fuck does BMP (allegedly) give Johnny five figures for showing up? I have a problem with that. If it were CT's name brought up, I'd still have a problem with that, albeit not as loud. I don't think cast members on other competitive reality shows get that much just for appearing. It's galling to me, especially since Johnny has gotten away with just about everything short of murder.

[luckyroll3]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

From the Media thread . . . why the fuck does BMP (allegedly) give Johnny five figures for showing up? I have a problem with that. If it were CT's name brought up, I'd still have a problem with that, albeit not as loud. I don't think cast members on other competitive reality shows get that much just for appearing. It's galling to me, especially since Johnny has gotten away with just about everything short of murder.

Well now it makes sense why he tends to stick around till the end.  At first, it was definitely strategy, but lately it's been really silly seeing cast members skip over him to eliminate other people, especially when his manipulations are more evident.....the producers are protecting their investment.  But really, $60K.  Fucking ridiculous.

[Lantern7]

From the Media thread . . .

11 hours ago, Sonoma said:

And there is why the show keeps investing in Johnny.  Off the top of my head recently he's been on TMZ and WWHL and all these other random media spots advertising the show. People love him or hate him but either way he gives the show its biggest exposure. The move with Sarah only amplified his role and popularity. He's been quite calculated and smart about his role with this show. People can rag on him all day long about not having a real job and living with his mom,  but the guy is making a better living than most people with a "real job".  

 

9 hours ago, scrb said:

But does he have any income opportunities if the Challenge went away?

Supposedly he will be 35 later this year.

He could go to school and try to develop a career.  Maybe law school.

Or maybe try to get a job with MTV behind the cameras, something to build up a resume other than reality TV personality.

He's made some money but does he have savings?  401k?  Health insurance?

He can keep making some money on the Challenges for another 5-10 years.  Then what?  At 40 or 45, he still has to earn a living, save for retirement.

Its not a real job so he's having fun, getting to hook up with girls 10-15 years younger.  But he passed up a chance to build a sustainable career.

 

And that's the bad thing about this show. Well, one of them, anyway.  BMP has become way too reliant on Johnny, and vice versa. Like I've said before, if BMP were to fold up shop (fingers crossed!), Johnny would be fucked. The same could be said for a lot of the others, but Johnny nuzzles that nipple the most. From what I've heard, CT is trying to do behind-the-scenes work. I'd rather he get a "real" job, but he has to earn a living somehow. Meanwhile, Johnny probably does very little, goes on Challenges, and wins lots of money. I believe he has exceeded Cosmo Kramer in terms of having a fantasy life.

Moving on . . . any rationale behind the marked differences in endgames*? Here's what we have so far:

ELIMINATION #1: "You're gonna go back and forth, retrieving weighted bags. Also, you will run into each other a lot. Please make it look painful."

ELIMINATION #2: "Okay, you're going to climb a mountain . . . maybe. We're not sure it's an actual mountain, but it's really steep and long. Then you're going to go solo, do some more climbing, get hitched to a bungee, and try to hold onto five balls after you jump."

I'm not trying to excuse Theo from punking out, but there's the possibility that he was too exhausted to jump. Or maybe he's just that big of a wuss. Given his football background (he was recruited by Oregon! OREGON!!!!), he probably would've earned a berth to the next round. Instead, TJ will be spending his own money finding out where Theo lives, and posting billboards about his cowardice to impair his social life. Okay, probably not, but this is Teege we're talking about."

[Lantern7]

This is coming off the Johnny thread . . .

2 hours ago, Sonoma said:

Yes, and they've also found and fined others players in the past. It's just never made public. 

I can't confirm if it's true but I heard Sarah was "banned" because she made this information public and for leaking other information about the show. Not sure if it's a permanent or temporary ban, not that it matters.

To review: the golden calf (allegedly) takes meds to stay awake, and he is fined. The least-damaged female veteran blows the whistle, and we might not see her again. That's probably for the best for Sarah, because I don't think anything short of a chop to Johnny's windpipe would be healthy for her. But if that's true, BMP is more lowdown than we imagined. Seriously, they don't have much of a problem bringing back Camila, and she's Section 8 at best. What, do they put her in a straitjacket and keep her in the basement between Challenges?

[Lantern7]

I meant she's the least-damaged of the long-time veteran women, as well as at least half of the guys. Even though Laurel is basically Butterface Rachel with actual talent, I think she's only on her fifth season. And I don't blame Sarah for reacting the way she did. Johnny probably gets Hannah to start his car every morning. Fuck him, and fuck BMP for putting in that twist in the finale. At least have Teege drop a few hints during the course of the season.

I could go with drug testing. Shit, weed out those that flunk without any mention, like some people saw bits of Piggy in the first episode of The Inferno.

[londonfroglet]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

I could go with drug testing. Shit, weed out those that flunk without any mention, like some people saw bits of Piggy in the first episode of The Inferno.

Did she get booted for drug use? 

[Lantern7]

When I start reposting recaps from The Inferno, you'll see that I didn't notice Piggy. And I looked. She wasn't as obvious as Theo . . . um . . . celebrating after Sarah took out Irulan in the Gauntlet. I watched, I posted about it, and then everybody else was all, "Dude, did you see what he was packing?!?"

Also, I remember Colin blogging about a heavy group drug trip during BOTS. Probably explains why BMP never went back to Jamaica. It would also explain why Eric Nies was bearable back then. Jonny Moseley? He was always like that.

[luckyroll3]

19 hours ago, Sonoma said:

It wasn't just the drug use. Look at that cast and you can imagine half of them were using or doing something. Some castmembers say she OD'd but to my knowledge that information was never confirmed? She was also allegedly using stuff heavier than your typical recreational or performance enhancing drugs. So at the very least, she couldn't film and they removed her.

Christena was an alternate so stepped in to replace her. They were able to refilm most but not all of the early footage to make it seem like Christena was there from the beginning but if you watch closely you can see Piggy in some spots of the first episode.

Woah!  I never knew about this!  That's some crazy shit.

[londonfroglet]

Interesting - thank you for the explanation! I have The Inferno saved somewhere, but I haven't watched it in its entirety recently. Will put it on the list. Also, I promise I won't ask this every single time someone posts a reference I don't understand, but...

Quote

She wasn't as obvious as Theo . . . um . . . celebrating after Sarah took out Irulan in the Gauntlet. I watched, I posted about it, and then everybody else was all, "Dude, did you see what he was packing?!?"

... what's this about?

[Lantern7]

Joined a BMP group on Facebook. Dunno where else to report: apparently, Laurel and Nicole are currently a couple. Good for them. I'm guessing Nicole was "thirsty" after being dumped, and Cara Maria was unattainable. I'll still worry about her . . . I didn't apply the "Killbot" tag to Laurel for nothing, after all.

[Tatum]

Has Laurel always been interested in women? The only other shomance I remember her having was with one handed Jordan.

[Unclejosh]

Laurel also texted naked pictures to try and seduce Kenny which cost him his girlfriend at the time I think.  I think it was Theresa who put her on blast on twitter about it.

But Laurel has made out with several girls on the show including Evelyn at one point I think.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Unclejosh

[Tatum]

Huh. I only watched the one season with Laurel so I didn't know much about her background other than she yells at people a lot, and alternates between being protective of Cara Marie and then bullying her. Strange. I did not peg her as interested in women at all. Nor did I peg her as the type of straight woman who will still make out with other women in order to get attention from men.

[Decider]

Laurel has a couple of photos of herself and Nicole together on her Instagram account, so I was thinking that had become a thing.  I didn't recall her being involved with women from my memories of her on the show, either.  Good for them.  

[Maharincess]

Ew.  Laurel could do so much better than Nicole.  Johnny was right, she looks like Andy Dick in a wig and her personality isn't any better.  

[NodakFan]

11 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Ew.  Laurel could do so much better than Nicole.  Johnny was right, she looks like Andy Dick in a wig and her personality isn't any better.  

But imagine the force they'd be in Battle of the Exes III

[OnceSane]

53 minutes ago, NodakFan said:

But imagine the force they'd be in Battle of the Exes III

I always thought that future challenges were part of the reason Laurel hooked up with & vice versa.

[Lantern7]

More Facebook . . . somebody posted an image where a production company was looking for people "18+" to attend the reunion on April 12. I posted, asking if anybody wanted to meet up. About an hour later, somebody had started a new thread . . . apparently, these people want a picture of you, your height and weight, and why you want to be there. And that, fellow posters, is how you get a few hundred people cheering for Johnny even after footage of him acting like a scumbag gets played. Had Sarah skipped him and dived into the audience like Ron Artest, I would not have blamed her.

[Lantern7]

From Stop Being Polite: according to Aneesa & Veronica, their "hookup" did NOT happen. As much as I figure they're covering their butts, that is believable. Remember, this is Bunim-Murray Productions we're talking about. The truth is a minor obstacle to a great story. Shit, when I interviewed Sophia back in 2001, she told me that BMP had more or less told Jisela that she liked her in that way. Also, Johnny and the meds.

[Lantern7]

Twitter beef counts as "behind the scenes," right? Apparently, Johnny is getting into it with Veronica. Start at Veronica's post with Melissa sipping wine on the bed, then go upward. Really nasty shade thrown from both assholes.

Jeez, Veronica's going "all in" with her opinions. She tweeted that TJ dropped the ball on Melissa's side of the wall more than Sylvia in the Ring, and Teege stopped doing whatever he does between Challenges to deny that. And Wes had this to say about the Ring: "The elimination round between the slutty Brit and the entitled wallpaper was awesome. If you don’t put in that type of effort you should be publicly shamed and never asked back." DAMN.

[MaggieG]

Damn Wes, don't hold back!

[Lantern7]

New post: Johnny defends/praises Teege against Veronica. I'm not surprised.