Season 5: That Is Essentially, Exactly The Way It Happened. Essentially.

[Bastet]

Redux II - Feels like a letdown after Redux I which I really enjoyed.

 

Redux was fine, but poorly paced, when it originally aired, but in a rewatch it's just filler I slog (or fast-forward) through to move on to Redux II, which I love.  (Except for the Samantha stuff that really could have waited until another episode in which Scully wasn’t on the brink of dying.  And the arm-gnawing crying, of course.)

Edited May 1, 2015 by Bastet

[Hidebehind]

Gotta admit I have a soft spot for Schizogeny. It's not great (or even very good) but quite rewatchabe, for some reason.

 

Me too. The premise is really stupid, but I thought the basement scenes were creepy. And Mulder gets some great lines. The tree climbing scene is hilarious.

[queequeg]

I feel like seasons 4 and 5, including the movie, were the peak of Mulder-Scully hotness.

[M.F. Luder]

Agreed. But Gillian and David are looking pretty hot these days...hopefully they take advantage of that and we don't get a repeat of early season wardrobe choices :)

[Jac]

*gasp* I love season 5 Scully hair! 

 

I don't like the brushed back look, compare these screenshots from Never Again and Bad Blood, the length remains good across both seasons but I much prefer s4's part situation, to me s4 is the height of Scully hair.

 

 

 

It is subtle but it is definitely better in s4.

[smrou]

a) I agree it's better in season 4. I just also think it's great in season 5.

 

b) I would argue you've chosen a somewhat atypical look with that season 5 cap. Here are some other Scully hair looks from season 5:

 

Detour:

Kitsunegari:

Kill Switch:

Bad Blood:

Patient X:

 

c) I'm not actually trying to change your mind, but looking through pictures of Scully is always good fun. ;)

Edited May 2, 2015 by smrou

[queequeg]

I feel like poor Mulder is left out here, so here's my Mulder appreciation post.

 

Mulder season 4:

 

Paper Hearts

 

Terma

 

 

Mulder season 5:

 

Detour

 

Bad Blood

 

 

 

 

[supposebly]

Finally made it to season 5:

Redux I is excellent although it's so painfully obvious that they hadn't known that Scully was in on it in the season 4 finale. With a lesser actress, you could fanwank (=re-interpret her reaction) it, not with Gillian Anderson.

Redux II was much better than I remembered except for Michael Kritschgau, the exposition fairy who explains to us and Mulder that we will now pretend all that happened in the last 4 years was a hoax. Ok then. I'll tell Deep Throat that he can come out of his pretend-death now.

Schizogyny is one of the reasons I had such a hard time with Supernatural at the beginning. I'm fairly sure they used the same location in Scarecrow. And it has two Supernatural alumni too, Chad Lindberg and I even noticed that Lisa was played by a very young looking Katherine Isabelle! This one isn't as bad as I remember, I think it's actually quite creepy.

Kitsunegari makes even less sense than I remembered. Why did Pusher even escape? And why did he meet his sister and then commit suicide by Skinner? I have no idea.

I find Unusual Suspects rather boring and the Gunmen rather annoying but I'm always happy to see X.

I can't really watch Postmodern Prometheus anymore except the dancing scene that actually brings tears to my eyes.

I haven't seen Christmas Carol and Emily in a really long time. Even years ago, I tended to skip them because they are so depressing. But they are actually really good episodes. And Emily is the reason why I don't like Bill, not Redux. There, he had a point. He was about to lose a second sister to Mulder's quest. Here, he's just an ass.

Love Chinga. It's funny and creepy and Scully has never looked better.

[SparedTurkey]

 

Love Chinga. It's funny and creepy and Scully has never looked better.

 

I love the Maine shirt, the jeans and an blazer.

 

Even more I love Mulder without Scully and Scully without Mulder. Where Scully runs through all paranormal theories she can think of and Mulder asks if the doll has a string in the back.

 

It is not the best episode at all but it is funny. And more than anything I love Stephen King's first draft, where Mulder and Scully are even more obviously having it off than anything....before 1013 got their mitts on it.

 

I know this ep gets a bad rep in fandom, but still. I will watch it.

[Bastet]

I love it.  The kid and the doll are ridiculous, sure.  But I honestly don't even notice them.  I am there for Vacation!Scully, the humor, great music to be murdered by, and Mulder & Scully giving such great phone.  And the wet leg kick.

 

And it cracks me up that the original script reveals Stephen King to be a giant 'shipper, who is like, "Can we just acknowledge what is going on here?"

[AntiBeeSpray]

I love it.  The kid and the doll are ridiculous, sure.  But I honestly don't even notice them.  I am there for Vacation!Scully, the humor, great music to be murdered by, and Mulder & Scully giving such great phone.  And the wet leg kick.

 

And it cracks me up that the original script reveals Stephen King to be a giant 'shipper, who is like, "Can we just acknowledge what is going on here?"

 

Word. I just saw some of it on Tumblr recently. And damn, it made me grin like a fool seeing how big of a shipper he is :).

[Taryn74]

Mulder asks if the doll has a string in the back.

 

HA!  That might be my favorite line of the whole episode.  I especially love the way he acts like he's tracing the outline of the pull handle while he's saying it.  Heeeee.

[DaynaPhile]

I was watching Chinga this afternoon and noticed something...in the scenein the back room at the supermarket when Scully is on the phone with Mulder making his mouth water as she rattled off black magic indicators...there is a string of some sort tied around her right wrist. It wasn't there earlier in the gas station scene, anyone have any clue? I still don't know how to just post the pic, so here's the link.

http://www.chrisnu.com/s5/index.php?spgmGal=chinga&spgmPic=20#spgmPicture

Edited January 21, 2016 by DaynaPhile

[Taryn74]

Huh, interesting.  Maybe it's like one of those 'snap the rubber band around your wrist when you're tempted to do something you're trying to stop doing' for every time that she tried to get sucked into helping on this case?  Heh.

 

Otherwise, I got nothin'.

[DaynaPhile]

I watched The Red And The Black today. I had forgotten what an emotional punch in the gut it was for Scully. Half the time she looked like she wanted to cry, half the time she looked terrified, a third of the time she looked pissed off (usually when talking to Spender) and I thought she was going to throw up in the water fountain after telling Mulder he shouldn't discount what Cassandra had to say. I felt like my own emotions were all over the map and I've seen it a hundred times! It's just been a while so it seemed to hit harder for some reason. Like I'm seeing it through different eyes.

Bottom line, Gillian and her emotions...they get me every freaking time. And she usually doesn't even have to say a word.

[festivus]

Season 5: 

 

I'm going to break up my posts or else I won't remember anything.

 

Redux 1 & 2: I think both of these are really strong episodes. I have a minority opinion regarding the crying scene. I don't think he's crying I think he's silently screaming and it punches me in the gut. He has to "chew the sheets"  just to control it. I know I'm not explaining this well but that scene really affects me.

 

Unusual Suspects: Unlike the CSM episode I like learning about TLG. With the added bonus of Detective Munch. I've also always liked Signy Coleman even though whenever I see her I expect her to be blind (Y&R).  lol at Mulder's big-ass phone.

 

Detour: "Kill me now." Let the flirting begin indeed. I don't think I've ever seen them more flirty, especially Scully. Loved the scene in the woods and Scully's singing was adorable. I also got a kick out of the other agents.

 

The PMP: I just can't with this episode. Surely there was a way to tell the Frankenstein story without the rape. It's too bad because stylistically this ep is lovely. The only way I can deal with it is to pretend it's a crazy dream that Mulder is having which of course must end with a dance with his love. I don't think they've ever looked more beautiful. I could watch this dance over and over. Forget kissing scenes, dancing scenes are my crack.  

 

 

[Bastet]

Yeah, that dancing scene is the only part I'll watch because I find PMP so offensive (they were raped, but, hey, they got babies out of the deal, so it's all hunky dory), but I would watch it on a pretty long loop.  So adorable.  And I have a real thing for my TV couples dancing, too. 

 

I've also always liked Signy Coleman

 

She's one of the reasons I'm not terribly interested in the episode.  She was decent in a great episode of Law & Order: SVU, but otherwise she has bugged the crap out of me in everything I've seen her in.  And for no specific reasons.

[festivus]

I also like one other scene in PMP; the hungover scene after they got gassed. This episode could have been so great if they had just found another way to tell this story. It really is too bad.

 

I'm always gonna love Signy because she was the only person to ever make Victor even remotely likable on Y&R. I HATE that guy. 

[janestclair]

Unusual Suspects: Unlike the CSM episode I like learning about TLG. With the added bonus of Detective Munch. I've also always liked Signy Coleman even though whenever I see her I expect her to be blind (Y&R).  lol at Mulder's big-ass phone.

 

Hah, I had the same thought when i first saw Signy Coleman.  She will forever be Hope, even though I haven't watched Y&R in years and years.

[festivus]

Season five continues

 

Emily episodes: Nope. Too sad.

 

Chinga: Damn Dana you look so fine in this. So fine. That doll wasn't creepy but it sure was fugly. Mulder sure is bored without  Scully. Poor Boo.

 

Kill Switch: Worth it just for "Mulder, that's evidence" "Gee I hope so". I actually love this one. Scully is Mulder's doctor, oh yes, I just bet she is. There goes Scully shooting things again. No fan is safe.

 

Bad Blood: I think y'all have pretty well covered this one here.

 

Mytharc eps: Yeah, I never know what the F is going on in these. Just know that Scully's big sad eyes hurt me and that kiss Krycek gave Mulder probably launched a thousand fanfics.

[festivus]

Travelers: Yay Darren McGavin. Boo Ring of Doom. 

 

Minds Eye: Mulder cares and Lili Taylor. Not bad.

 

The End: Does anyone else remember that feeling of dread when they saw Diana? I mean we know what we know now but I remember seeing her in that meeting and I knew it wasn't good. 

 

So endeth season five the season of great hair. I need to watch FTF now which presents a problem since I only own it on VHS. Deluxe edition, but still. I'll have to wait until that Blu-ray I ordered from Amazon arrives.

[Taryn74]

Minds Eye: Mulder cares and Lili Taylor. Not bad.

 

The End: Does anyone else remember that feeling of dread when they saw Diana? I mean we know what we know now but I remember seeing her in that meeting and I knew it wasn't good. 

 

Yay, somebody else who likes Mind's Eye!  I enjoy that episode, but most people are either indifferent or really don't like it for some reason.

 

The End....I remember feeling an actual pain in my chest when Scully went to her car and threw the folder in the front seat and took a moment to collect herself before calling Mulder.  *cries*

[festivus]

I do like that episode and it's because of her. I still will watch something just because Lili Taylor is in it. 

 

The End....I remember feeling an actual pain in my chest when Scully went to her car and threw the folder in the front seat and took a moment to collect herself before calling Mulder.  *cries*

 

Yes, add that to the mile long list of times Scully breaks my heart. 

[madam magpie]

I've finally made it to season five in my rewatch, and wow...I'd forgotten how good that season was! And how much better and more clever the show got as it went along. The Post-Modern Prometheus and Bad Blood are so great. Those may be my favorite episodes of the entire series.

[Baby Button Eyes]

There are so many good episodes in this season. I loved "Detour", I really wish there were more moments of casual conversation between M & S. It can be entertaining and revealing as their own people, not as just special agent partners. This and "Quagmire". Are there no more episodes where they just talk?

I flat out like "Chinga" (?). I love creepy dolls that kill, never mind Scully in jeans, t-shirt and sunglasses, bantering with lonely Mulder on the phone. What even are the complaints about it?

"The End". As a local Vancouverite, I vaguely recall the news about the open call to be an extra at BC Place stadium for the opening scene. I'm asking myself why the hell I didn't at least try to get in there! Anyway, I feel for Scully in that car scene. The feeling of being displaced with someone for someone else completely sucks.

I totally did not remember Scully in this season under so much stuff that she almost constantly has teary eyes. I thought that didn't start until season 8 or so, but looks like after GA's Emmy win, they wanted more of her showing emotions for Scully, I dunno. Weird for the character, but good for watching the talent of Gillian. David also look so hot in this season, why do I always devolve into shallowness when discussing each season lol

[Jac]

There are so many good episodes in this season. I loved "Detour", I really wish there were more moments of casual conversation between M & S. It can be entertaining and revealing as their own people, not as just special agent partners. This and "Quagmire". Are there no more episodes where they just talk?

I flat out like "Chinga" (?). I love creepy dolls that kill, never mind Scully in jeans, t-shirt and sunglasses, bantering with lonely Mulder on the phone. What even are the complaints about it?

"The End". As a local Vancouverite, I vaguely recall the news about the open call to be an extra at BC Place stadium for the opening scene. I'm asking myself why the hell I didn't at least try to get in there! Anyway, I feel for Scully in that car scene. The feeling of being displaced with someone for someone else completely sucks.

I totally did not remember Scully in this season under so much stuff that she almost constantly has teary eyes. I thought that didn't start until season 8 or so, but looks like after GA's Emmy win, they wanted more of her showing emotions for Scully, I dunno. Weird for the character, but good for watching the talent of Gillian. David also look so hot in this season, why do I always devolve into shallowness when discussing each season lol

Because such observations are of the utmost importance.

[Jac]

I've finally made it to season five in my rewatch, and wow...I'd forgotten how good that season was! And how much better and more clever the show got as it went along. The Post-Modern Prometheus and Bad Blood are so great. Those may be my favorite episodes of the entire series.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who loves PMP! Is it problematic? Yes. But it is still a wonderful episode.

(My thoughts on the media that can be interpreted as perpetuating rape culture is that it must be looked at in the context of the historical period and while PMP is only 18 years old the culture surrounding rape has changed significantly. If the episode was made today I would have way more of a problem with it.)

(Apologies for the double post, my iPad won't let me edit the previous one for some reason.)

Edited March 5, 2016 by Jac

[madam magpie]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who loves PMP! Is it problematic? Yes. But it is still a wonderful episode.

(My thoughts on the media that can be interpreted as perpetuating rape culture is that it must be looked at in the context of the historical period and while PMP is only 18 years old the culture surrounding rape has changed significantly. If the episode was made today I would have way more of a problem with it.)

(Apologies for the double post, my iPad won't let me edit the previous one for some reason.)

I don't think it's really about rape at all, actually, and usually think it's a mistake to put things on a work of fiction (or statement or whatever) that's out of context. As a writer, you can use a lot of events/actions/words/etc. to tell your story. The audience can always pull out single bits that seem to offend. The most obvious, ridiculous example of that is the use of seemingly offensive language in Huck Finn. I prefer to look at the whole instead. What's the story saying? And often writers deliberately use what looks offensive on its face to tell a story that's the opposite of that.

Post-Modern Prometheus looks more like a morality tale fable to me, in the vein of Grimm's fairy tales or the obvious Frankenstein, something like that. The women both want children, and the monster with no friends provides that. He's not running through town randomly raping people for sport. He chooses the women who very much want kids, especially the mad scientist's wife. The women themselves (and the monster) are empowered in the end. So to me, it never looks like a story about rape.

That episode is a super literary approach to a television show, clever and well written, at a time when most television was really superficial and bad. So much TV is so high brow now that I feel like we sometimes forget how different TV as a whole looked in the 1990s. (I know I do.) And it's so beautifully shot, playing on the look of an old B movie. I really love it.

Edited March 5, 2016 by madam magpie

[Jac]

I don't think it's really about rape at all, actually, and usually think it's a mistake to put things on a work of fiction (or statement or whatever) that's out of context. As a writer, you can use a lot of events/actions/words/etc. to tell your story. The audience can always pull out single bits that seem to offend. The most obvious, ridiculous example of that is the use of seemingly offensive language in Huck Finn. I prefer to look at the whole instead. What's the story saying? And often writers deliberately use what looks offensive on its face to tell a story that's the opposite of that.

Post-Modern Prometheus looks more like a morality tale fable to me, in the vein of Grimm's fairy tales or the obvious Frankenstein, something like that. The women both want children, and the monster with no friends provides that. He's not running through town randomly raping people for sport. He chooses the women who very much want kids, especially the mad scientist's wife. The women themselves (and the monster) are empowered in the end. So to me, it never looks like a story about rape.

That episode is a super literary approach to a television show, clever and well written, at a time when most television was really superficial and bad. So much TV is so high brow now that I feel like we sometimes forget how different TV as a whole looked in the 1990s. (I know I do.) And it's so beautifully shot, playing on the look of an old B movie. I really love it.

I agree with your interpretation of PMP. My comments regarding the rape culture aspects of it were more to address my views on the element that most people who dislike his episode tend to find problematic.

I agree about the way it is shot too. It is georgeous to look at.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Jac

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I totally did not remember Scully in this season under so much stuff that she almost constantly has teary eyes. I thought that didn't start until season 8 or so, but looks like after GA's Emmy win, they wanted more of her showing emotions for Scully, I dunno. Weird for the character, but good for watching the talent of Gillian. David also look so hot in this season, why do I always devolve into shallowness when discussing each season lol

 

I mean, I know everyone extols GA's beauty (as well they should) but it is worth periodically reminding people that David Duchovney is really smoking hot as Mulder.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I've made it to Season 5 - made it through PMP, Christmas Carol, and Emily last night.

 

A note on Redux II - I would be so beyond angry if my brother treated my significant other the way that Bill Scully treats Mulder. But it is also difficult to not understand where he is coming from, when you think of everything that has happened to the Scully family.  That being said, I think what truly drives me crazy about Bill is his sense of ownership over his sister's life - he can see that Mulder cares about Scully and vice versa, because anyone with half a brain can see that. And yet, he also keeps thinking he can somehow push Mulder out of Scully's life. As wonderful as the ending of Redux is, it is so sad that Mulder is on the outside of the hospital room while she's in there with her family.  And for all that Bill is such a jerk, Mulder is still respectful of him.  I just wish at some point Scully had told her brother to get off his high horse.

 

Re PMP - to be honest, I don't find PMP significantly more problematic than Small Potatoes. That's to say, both use the same plot point - about sexual violation and motherhood - in the exact same problematic way, and I am not sure that SP's end is any better than PMP's in addressing that. Both episodes are ultimately pretty sympathetic to the violators.  That being said, as problematic as it is, the show has also asked to be sympathetic to murderers and has condemned rapists and pedophiles. So I have to put aside the problematic elements of PMP because I really do love significant parts of it. Not just the dancing at the end, but John O'Hurley's over the top performance and the spot on recreation of 1930s monster movies.  I love the lightning and thunder that punctuates Dr. Pollidori's every line - the whole episode makes me laugh.

 

Re Christmas Carol/Emily - I have never disliked these eps as much as others do. I find it a bit perplexing that some of the commentary I have read (not here, but elsewhere on the Internet) see Scully's puzzling through the question of motherhood - which obviously comes to the forefront with these episodes and then stays there for the rest of the series - as not feminist really curious.  I think that the fundamental question that any women faces in her 20s and 30s is the question of career vs. motherhood, and the fact that so many people read the decision to try to have both as anti-feminist seems pretty regressive in and of itself, IMO.  Choosing to have a child is not a repudiation of also having a career - that seems like an awfully reductionist understanding of what feminism advocates for.  TXF doesn't always get everything right when it comes to gender (see above), but it always takes those questions seriously, and ultimately, I don't see Scully's desire to become a mother as evidence of an anti-feminist stance.

 

I am skipping over Schizogeny, which I remember absolutely hating the first time around - I remember calling it the "When Trees Attack" episode.

 

ETA: Oh, I forgot to add one thing - Detour! One thing that I thought was kind of funny is how much Scully's attempted wine and cheese seduction mirrors Eddie van Blundht's.  Clearly, that moment had an impact on her. But Mulder is such a coward in that moment. He can't be that oblivious, so he must know what she's up to. Still, thinking about it like that - that he was already freaked out by almost losing her to cancer, and as such, just wanted to get back to their old pre-cancer dynamic without any other complications, he helps me to understand why he ran off and why it took him so long to make the next move.

Edited April 23, 2016 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Bastet]

Ah, yes - it has all come back to me why my previous attempt at a re-watch stalled out after Detour.  I did manage to make it through PMP this time (still a steaming pile of shit), but I only got through about three minutes of Tara in Christmas Carol before I decided sleep was a far better use of my time.

It was interesting to discover Redux is a little better than I remember it, and Redux II a little worse.  Redux still isn't great - it's CC writing VOs and using stock footage, after all - but it does have good pacing, and tells a believable story.  Redux II has stellar moments, but the Samantha shit really bogs it down.  This time I fast forwarded through the religious stuff; great performance by Gillian, but I just can't with this.

I recall well all the hoopla caused by DD wearing his wedding ring in Travelers, but I didn't remember that Mulder is wearing a ring in Unusual Suspects, too.  I do not enjoy that episode at all.  Well, maybe for Belzer/Munch.  But I cannot stand Susanne Modeski (because I can't stand Signy Colman), nor can I stand Byers' mooning over her.  I want to be interested in how the Gunmen got started, but I'm just not.  I generally love Vince Gilligan's writing, but that episode falls flat for me.

I'll try again with CC/Emily tonight, because at least they have Kresge.  I'd just skip to the next disc, but Kitsunegari isn't much better.  Actually, it probably is; it's probably an okay episode on its own and only seems like it sucks because it's so inferior to Pusher.  But, still - it's a long slog to get from Detour to the Chinga, Kill Switch, Bad Blood part of the season, and then there's not much I'm into after that.  It's clear why season five is when the show went from something I was obsessed with to just something I watched.

[Bastet]

It's entirely possible last night was only the second time I've ever watched Schizogeny.  I remembered nothing from that episode other than Mulder's "boyish agility" line and Mulder sticking his head through a broken window, throat up, despite two pointed shards that could have come loose and stabbed him.  This means that when the actor who played Bobby went on to do a fabulous job in an episode of L&O: SVU (and semi-recently, another great job in an episode of Major Crimes), I didn't say, as I normally do when someone first came to my attention in an XF episode, "Hey, it's that guy from The X-Files!"  Instead, last night I said, "Hey, it's that guy from SVU and Major Crimes; I had no idea he'd been on XF."

The episode is rather dumb.  Karin Matthews is a weird character, but not in any interesting way.  First, I really don't like the way the actor speaks, so she bugs me from jump, and she's also obviously up to no good from the beginning, but it's neither subtle nor obvious yet intriguing.  So, no suspense whatsoever.  And, seriously - killer trees?  No wonder I never re-watched it.

When Mulder says people call Bobby "dorkweed," it looks for all the world like he actually said "dickweed" and they had to loop his dialogue later to change it.  It seems odd that Standards & Practices wouldn't have made them change it from the beginning, but I swear when they filmed it he said "dickweed."

Edited November 1, 2017 by Bastet

[Taryn74]

Schizogeny was one of those eps that I ended up rather oddly liking when I rewatched it years later.  Yeah, I can't explain it either.  It happens.

[Bastet]

On 10/30/2017 at 11:36 AM, Bastet said:

I recall well all the hoopla caused by DD wearing his wedding ring in Travelers, but I didn't remember that Mulder is wearing a ring in Unusual Suspects, too. 

Quoting myself to say that after having re-watched Travelers for the first time (well, half of it, anyway; I fell asleep), I understand why we all freaked out about the ring in Travelers in a way that didn't happen after Unusual Suspects.  DD is so.fucking.obnoxious with the ring in Travelers.  In Unusual Suspects, you just happen to see the ring in a quick shot.  In Travelers, he does this weird move to push his bangs aside - twice - to make absolutely sure the ring is noticed.  All these years later, I still wanted to punch him through the TV.

This disc is awful - Travelers, Mind's Eye, and All Souls.  I woke up as Mind's Eye was starting and tried to watch that, but got bored just like I did originally and fell back asleep.  And just forget it with All Souls (it is amusing, though, to listen to CC's commentary on its deleted scenes and realize he pretty much hates the episode -- you and me both, brother).  So tonight I'll just move on to the next disc.

[Bastet]

Pine Bluff Variant is an episode I have no memory of being any great shakes (or have any memory of in general, really), but that has been discussed by others as a much-liked episode of this season, so I was curious to finally watch it again.  I was hoping for a hidden gem, but no dice.  It is a good episode, and I love Scully asking the dark-suited thugs what agency they work for and, in response to their silence, saying, "Obviously not the Office of Information," - not to mention "Not even close" as her response to "Are you the wife?" - but nothing to get excited about.

Folie a Deux - also good for this horribly uneven season, but just there in general - was driving me, well, buggy, because the actor who plays the hostage-taker who is onto Pincus is a character actor I knew I'd seen recently and couldn't come up with where -- it turns out I was recognizing him from my XF re-watch, as he played the partner of the dead cop who was possessing the creepy girl in Born Again.

Up tonight:  Mytharc.  Gibson Praise.  Diana Fowley.  Oh my.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 11/8/2017 at 1:12 AM, Bastet said:

Pine Bluff Variant is an episode I have no memory of being any great shakes (or have any memory of in general, really), but that has been discussed by others as a much-liked episode of this season, so I was curious to finally watch it again.  I was hoping for a hidden gem, but no dice.  It is a good episode, and I love Scully asking the dark-suited thugs what agency they work for and, in response to their silence, saying, "Obviously not the Office of Information," - not to mention "Not even close" as her response to "Are you the wife?" - but nothing to get excited about.

Folie a Deux - also good for this horribly uneven season, but just there in general - was driving me, well, buggy, because the actor who plays the hostage-taker who is onto Pincus is a character actor I knew I'd seen recently and couldn't come up with where -- it turns out I was recognizing him from my XF re-watch, as he played the partner of the dead cop who was possessing the creepy girl in Born Again.

Up tonight:  Mytharc.  Gibson Praise.  Diana Fowley.  Oh my.

I liked Pine Bluff Variant way more in my rewatch than I did when I originally saw it many years ago but I also think that the ending is a bit of a cop out.  But I also liked Mind's Eye and All Souls, too (except the only time I really hate Mulder is when he's being Mr. Hipster Atheist when it comes to Scully's religious beliefs).

[Sharna Pax]

So I don't plan on doing a rewatch of Season 5, but I did have to watch Redux II just to wrap up the cancer arc, and now I can't decide whether Mulder gnawing on Scully's arm is hilarious or heartbreaking. It might be objectively bad acting, or maybe just a terrible camera angle, but I kind of love it anyway? I admire Duchovny's full-on commitment to ugly-crying, though I'm not sure it always pays off.

Maybe this is just me, but I wish we'd gotten one more episode before Scully's cancer was cured - not a mytharc episode, just a regular MOTW. There are a lot of episodes where Scully is living and working with cancer, but the part where she's visibly sick and in the hospital is pretty much one episode, and then she's cured right away. It seems too quick and easy for a storyline about cancer. I would like to see an episode where they're waiting to see if the chip works, and Mulder has to accept that he's done all he can and go back to work, and he's dropping by the hospital every so often to chat with Scully and get glared at by Bill.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 4/18/2018 at 12:59 AM, Sharna Pax said:

So I don't plan on doing a rewatch of Season 5, but I did have to watch Redux II just to wrap up the cancer arc, and now I can't decide whether Mulder gnawing on Scully's arm is hilarious or heartbreaking. It might be objectively bad acting, or maybe just a terrible camera angle, but I kind of love it anyway? I admire Duchovny's full-on commitment to ugly-crying, though I'm not sure it always pays off.

Maybe this is just me, but I wish we'd gotten one more episode before Scully's cancer was cured - not a mytharc episode, just a regular MOTW. There are a lot of episodes where Scully is living and working with cancer, but the part where she's visibly sick and in the hospital is pretty much one episode, and then she's cured right away. It seems too quick and easy for a storyline about cancer. I would like to see an episode where they're waiting to see if the chip works, and Mulder has to accept that he's done all he can and go back to work, and he's dropping by the hospital every so often to chat with Scully and get glared at by Bill.

At the time, I remember feeling kind of second-hand embarrassment for DD but you know, in the rewatches, I've gotten more come up in the moment and believe it's a pretty moving moment - not the least for the fact that he is falling apart and yet is being silent about it because Scully is dying and he isn't going to burden her with his pain while she's dying. It's so grown up of him. Though, honestly, my favorite moment of that episode will always be at the beginning, when he sees Scully in the hospital and has the wind kicked out of him.

I can see the desire to have another episode dealing with the Scully actually being deathly ill but on the other hand, I think that they made the right decision not to do that - because while it would have been full of shippy moments, it probably wouldn't have moved the plot forward once Blevins is discovered at the man inside.

Bill Scully really drives me up the freaking wall.  Partly because I believe he thinks he's just trying to protect his sister by being such a jerk to Mulder but dude, she's not a child. How about treating your sister like the adult she is, rather than blaming her [life] partner for everything. Scully's made her choices and she doesn't need you protecting her.  And as I said elsewhere (maybe in this thread), I feel so bad at the end of the episode when Mulder tells Skinner about Scully, that he's clearly outside of the hospital room because he doesn't feel comfortable being in there celebrating with her family, and that's totally on Bill, IMO. 

[Sharna Pax]

4 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

At the time, I remember feeling kind of second-hand embarrassment for DD but you know, in the rewatches, I've gotten more come up in the moment and believe it's a pretty moving moment - not the least for the fact that he is falling apart and yet is being silent about it because Scully is dying and he isn't going to burden her with his pain while she's dying. It's so grown up of him. Though, honestly, my favorite moment of that episode will always be at the beginning, when he sees Scully in the hospital and has the wind kicked out of him.

Same! I clearly remember watching it as a teenager and laugh-cringing because he was eating her hand. But watching it again, as an adult, I have more of a sense of how weird and awkward and ugly real grief can be, and the scene seems less like DD trying to cry and more like DD channeling a level of emotion that goes beyond crying. And you find out later what's in Mulder's mind during that scene - he's making up his mind to take the CSM's deal. So that's not just grief we're seeing, it's also desperation, because he knows he shouldn't take the deal but can't think of another way out of the trap he's in. And he can't wake Scully up and ask her - he has to do this for himself. I still could have done without the camera angle that makes it look like he's actually chewing on her hand, though.

I love the contrast between the absolute rock-bottom misery that you see in Mulder during that scene and the composure with which he comes to visit Scully the next day, after he talks to Blevins. Mulder is lovely in all his scenes with Scully - as you say, he's being a grown-up and not burdening Scully with his pain. It's "I will be right there" all over again. But in this scene, I really get the sense that Mulder has turned a corner. He had to make this terribly important decision, and he had to do it without Scully, and he almost screwed it up and torpedoed his entire life, but ultimately he figured it out. He found his way. And he's here to tell Scully what he's going to do, because he respects her opinion, but he made his decision all on his own, and he knows it's the right one. It feels like Mulder is preparing himself for Scully's death, or at least accepting that he can't share his burdens with her anymore, and he's figuring out how to take what he's learned from her and hold onto it after she's gone.

5 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

And as I said elsewhere (maybe in this thread), I feel so bad at the end of the episode when Mulder tells Skinner about Scully, that he's clearly outside of the hospital room because he doesn't feel comfortable being in there celebrating with her family, and that's totally on Bill, IMO.

I am such a literature nerd, and this is the dumbest thing in the world to think of in relation to the X-Files, but there's this terribly sad photo of Sophia Tolstoy standing outside the train station where her husband is dying, looking in through the window because his disciples won't let her in, and that's always what comes to mind when I watch the end of this episode. It just occurred to me, though, that Mulder might be outside the hospital room in part because he can't deal with all the family stuff while he's trying to process his meeting with Samantha. It seems like he was suppressing his emotional reaction to meeting Samantha because he had more important things to worry about, and as soon as he got the news of Scully's remission it all came crashing down on him.

The other weirdly sad moment that's all Bill's fault is when Mulder answers the phone, "Sorry son of a bitch speaking," and it's the CSM calling to check up on Scully. Mulder's so deeply unhappy that he just opened up to the Cigarette-Smoking Man, of all people. I mean, he didn't know it was the CSM calling, but it highlights how alone Mulder is without Scully, that he doesn't really have a better confidant than his evil dad.

[Sharna Pax]

So I keep swearing to myself that I'm not rewatching Season 5 - and I'm not, honestly! But of course I had to watch Detour again, because how could I struggle through the cancer arc and not reward myself with Detour? Thank you, Frank Spotnitz, for giving us this wonderful moment after all the angst of Season 4. I think Spotnitz might low-key be my favorite X-Files writer. (I'm going to go ahead and give him credit for the birthday/keychain scene in Tempus Fugit, because I can't imagine Chris Carter was responsible for something so gorgeously nuanced.) It's so rare for Mulder and Scully to get to just hang out and talk, and it's rarer still for them to hang out and talk without angst, without drama, and without it really serving the plot at all. But those are my absolute favorite scenes to watch. My only quibble (and it's barely a quibble) with the Conversation on the Log is that it seems like a condensed version of a much longer conversation, because Mulder and Scully jump around from subject to subject so much. But who cares? It's adorable.

A quick, incomplete list of things I love about Detour:

The entire premise. Mulder and Scully + team-building seminar + annoyingly perky agents = comedy gold.

When Mulder says that the best way to regenerate body heat is to crawl naked into a sleeping bag with someone else "who's already naked," there's something about the word "already" in that sentence that consistently makes me laugh. Duchovny says it in a really goofy way, too. Really, all the line readings in this scene and the next one are on point.

Mulder's eyes when Scully says her line about it raining sleeping bags.

The "I'm in pain and also really sleepy" slur to Mulder's voice while they're talking.

"Chorus."

The way Scully is bouncing around the next morning, waving her gun and eating berries and talking to Mulder and generally acting like she's having a GREAT TIME, and Mulder looks like he's exhausted just looking at her.

No need to mention "I fell down a hOOOle," but I'll mention it anyway.

STACKING CORPSES! I love you, Frank Spotnitz!

The Weimaraner.

Edited April 25, 2018 by Sharna Pax

[MissL]

Man. I LOVE Detour and wish I had "I fell in a hole" to play on a loop. I'm only on season 3 in my rewatch and kinda wish we'd been on the same schedule Sharna Pax. My plan is to go through season 8 though (only DD included episodes) and include the movie.

 Redux II breaks my heart in so many ways.  I agree that scene where Mulder loses his ability to breathe when he sees Scully in the hospital always stands out to me. And I think the fandoms hatred of Bill Scully was solidified here.

 

You sure you're done? You sure you don't want to watch Bad Blood too? ;)

I also kinda remember loving Pine Bluff Variant but we will see when I get there. 

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, MissL said:

I also kinda remember loving Pine Bluff Variant but we will see when I get there. 

PBV is a personal fave!  (For one reason, Pine Bluff Arkansas is a real place and they do have an armory there, so it gets points from me just for the accuracy.)  But I just think the whole episode is very well done and has a legit tenseness to it.

[Sharna Pax]

7 hours ago, MissL said:

Man. I LOVE Detour and wish I had "I fell in a hole" to play on a loop. I'm only on season 3 in my rewatch and kinda wish we'd been on the same schedule Sharna Pax.

Me too! It would have been really fun to have company on my rewatch. I meant to start from Season 1, but I skipped to Season 4 because that's the season I know the least. But seasons 2 and 3 are probably my favorites.

7 hours ago, MissL said:

You sure you're done? You sure you don't want to watch Bad Blood too? ;)

It's tempting! I felt like I had to stop writing about every episode, though, because I was getting way too obsessed with it and it was taking away time from things I needed to be working on. I actually skipped ahead a bit - I'm a terrible rewatcher - and watched a few from Season 6 and then jumped to Season 7, because I love seeing Mulder and Scully together and happy. I might go back and write about some of the episodes that really stood out to me, but I don't think I can do the full rewatch. (Plus, I can't handle the mythology episodes from the end of Season 5 through the beginning of Season 7, so there's too much I would want to skip.)

I really like "Pine Bluff Variant" too. It has an atmosphere that really gets me, and once I realized it was based on The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, I liked it even more. I think Shiban did a very good job of adapting the book but also making it credible as an X-Files episode. And it's one of those secretly shippy episodes, because Scully, as the person Mulder can't bring himself to lie to, is playing the part that Leamas's girlfriend plays in the book. Hmm. I might have to rewatch that one after all.

[MissL]

2 hours ago, Sharna Pax said:

 Hmm. I might have to rewatch that one after all.

My job here is done. 

 

Ha no really I'll try to pop in when I get to season 4 and leave some thoughts.  I know what you mean about obsessing. I feel like I've fallen back down the rabbit hole of obsession I had when these first aired. Fanfic and chat rooms (much like the good old days of XF discussion mail lists- man I would spend HOURS) Good weather is coming to Chicago though so I hope I snap out of it and go outside. 

[Sharna Pax]

6 hours ago, MissL said:

I know what you mean about obsessing. I feel like I've fallen back down the rabbit hole of obsession I had when these first aired. Fanfic and chat rooms (much like the good old days of XF discussion mail lists- man I would spend HOURS) Good weather is coming to Chicago though so I hope I snap out of it and go outside. 

Yes! Rabbit hole is right. I think I'm somehow more obsessed with the show now than I was back when I first watched it. This may have something to do with the fact that I now live in Alaska and it was snowing this morning when I left my cabin. I don't think summer is ever going to come.

So I rewatched "The Pine Bluff Variant," and this is one of those episodes where I can't quite believe they fit it all into 45 minutes of TV. It works, I think. The plot is convoluted and hard to follow, but it's supposed to be, and it all more or less makes sense in the end.

One thing I didn't quite realize before, but that jumped out to me on rewatch, is how central Scully is to the plan to set Mulder up. They arrange for Mulder to let Haley go, ostensibly to build Haley's trust, but also to give Scully a chance to see it and become suspicious. Then they hold a fake hearing - again, ostensibly to allay suspicion on the part of the militia, but also so that Scully will think Mulder is lying and getting away with it. They set the whole thing up so that Scully won't be in on it from the beginning, and won't be able to discuss the operation with Mulder in a secure location, because they know that she'll track him down and confront him once she knows the truth. And they also know that Mulder won't be able to resist the temptation to talk to her, and thus Bremer will get the proof he needs to discredit Haley. In The Spy Who Came in from the Cold, this role in the plot is played by Liz, the woman Leamas falls in love with just before he goes undercover. I find it adorable that this episode just slots Scully neatly into the girlfriend role in the story. I have to assume that the government chose Mulder in part because of his relationship with Scully - they needed someone with radical views and a very close relationship with his partner, and Mulder fit the bill.

But what the government didn't see coming was Scully being smart and persistent enough to bust them. The big mystery at the end of the episode is why Bremer doesn't kill Mulder, since I'm pretty sure that was the plan as originally conceived: use Mulder to discredit Haley, then kill both Mulder and Haley to consolidate Bremer's power with the militia. Pretending to execute Mulder and then letting him go makes no sense - how is Bremer going to stay in charge of the militia when he's got a dead henchman and a live FBI agent to explain away? Sure, it will probably be a while before someone checks on whether Mulder is alive or dead, but once they find out he's alive Bremer's days are numbered. The only way I can explain it is to assume that Bremer got word that Scully was onto them and decided it was better to close down the operation than to kill Mulder and have Scully blow the whistle. (And really, the government trying to rope Scully into their plans for Mulder and getting more than they bargained for is this entire show in a nutshell.)

A few more thoughts:

Mulder's shady motel of intrigue is the Aaron Burr Motor Court. Hee hee hee. I'm sure there's some metaphorical significance there, with the two men vying for control and all that, but mostly it just cracks me up that there's a motel named after Aaron Burr.

Good job by Duchov when Mulder thinks he's about to be shot. Really, the trauma that Mulder's been put through in this episode alone is off the charts. Torture and thinking he's being executed? How is he still even remotely functional? That's a gorgeous scene, by the way - that torn-up greenhouse, with all the drifting sheets of Visqueen.

I like the way Mulder just wordlessly gestures to his face when Scully says she recognized him in the video, and his little laugh when she says, "Your finger." So much nonverbal communication between these two.

But what really gets me is the moment where Mulder opens the door of his apartment late at night after the Pepsi Challenge and finds Scully there. Even though I know it's all part of the setup, I'm still glad Mulder doesn't have to come home to an empty apartment when he's frightened and in pain.

[MissL]

Aww man. I'm on season 3, just getting ready to queue up Avatar, which I'm not excited about, and am trying not to skip ahead but now I REALLY want to watch Pine Bluff Variant. 

[Sharna Pax]

One thing I forgot to mention: Scully running through the park after Mulder is so Run, Lola, Run it's ridiculous. I have no idea how to post a gif so that it actually plays, but I'll try.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Sharna Pax
ETA: Success!