Acting, or at least a facsimile of it...

[jaytee1812]

I'm not sure I'd include Heather on that list.

She was hired as a choreographer, then promoted to be on the show, then got progressively more screen time. She was only written out because she was pregnant, then came back for the biggest storyline outside Rachel's in season 6. She must be doing something right.

[shantown]

Again though, Darren can't .stop . talking. If he is now implying that they ruined his character he wants brownie points for his insights showing he knew the writing sucked . IMO He wants it both ways.

Darren is an extremely polarizing person. You either love him or hate him, I don't know many people who are just "meh" about him. He's not gonna earn himself any extra Glee fans by now saying "Oh yeah, it DID suck!" Those who dislike him just dislike him more for always talking but never saying anything. Those who like him will continue to fawn over their poor mistreated cupcake.

 

Shut up, Darren.

[caracas1914]

Just my spec:

 

Pretty much Heather considered herself more of a dancer than an actor when she first got on Glee, (similar I would venture to Harry) so i just don't think either one of them had any illusions; thus no battles;/issues on their character's writing.  With time the show gave them more of an acting platform, so it was  fair to say Heather/Harry  are as well know now as actors as well as dancers.  That's different than someone like Jacob Artist who might have been trained as a dancer but was brought in from the very beginning to be built up as  lead character.

 

IMO  Heather didn't seem to give two fucks about an acting career early on Glee, but she also doesn't strike me as someone who was complaining about her character's "motivation".   Again my spec, but my impression is Heather is  very down to earth and  amiable,  who goes with the flow and was probably very easy to deal with.

 

Heather doesn't seem to have any guile when she speaks but she also doesn't have a filter.  I will love her forever when someone asked her during Season or 2 or 3 and IIRC basically said in a red carpet interview that the Glee people had no idea what they were doing (as far as planning things) but Heather  didn't really come as across as slamming anyone but nonchalantly stating a truth as she saw it.   It was fucking hilarious.  Maybe it was best  she admitted she hated doing interviews/BTS promos, etc and was rarely used.  LOL.

Edited April 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[AndySmith]

shantown, while not exactly the same thing, this is for you...easily one of the season 4 newbies finest moments.

Edited April 9, 2015 by AndySmith

[phoenixrising]

I feel like on Glee, it's almost pointless to spend too much time thinking about your character. Good to the people who still did, but knowing how one day they can change the entire course of your arch on a whim (see Bieste), I wouldn't blame anyone for just going with what's on the page.

I've reached a "meh" point with Darren, because I think people who totally hate or love him are extreme. I've been through phases where I loved and hated him, but now I'm just at a point where it doesn't matter to me anymore.

[truthaboutluv]

Darren is an extremely polarizing person. You either love him or hate him, I don't know many people who are just "meh" about him. He's not gonna earn himself any extra Glee fans by now saying "Oh yeah, it DID suck!" Those who dislike him just dislike him more for always talking but never saying anything. Those who like him will continue to fawn over their poor mistreated cupcake.

 

Shut up, Darren.

 

And there are some who neither love or hate him but are tired of the slightest thing he says or does being made into something bigger than it is. And I call bullshit on the dislike for him being based on "his talking but never saying anything" because I think it's very easy for anyone to avoid all things Darren Criss if they so choose to. But how would one find new ways to judge him. 

 

I've reached a "meh" point with Darren, because I think people whI'o totally hate or love him are extreme. I've been through phases where I loved and hated him, but now I'm just at a point where it doesn't matter to me anymore.

 

 

Darren to me is no different than the whole cast. I never loved or hated any of them largely because I was never a "stan" for any of them. I saw and read and heard things here and there and may have had a passing opinion but that's it. And so honestly for me, I've found that I've been equal parts annoyed with both extremes - the love and the hate. 

 

I remember when Blaine first showed up on the show, that TWOP thread for the character was insufferable at times to the point that I just stopped reading it. Everytime I glanced at the page count I couldn't wrap my head around what the hell they talked about so much because this was even before S2 had ended, so Blaine's screentime was fairly minimal. And the few glances were just these long, waxing poetic about the character and Darren and it was just "um, no..."

 

But then it was weird because it was like the complete opposite took over in the latter seasons and it was just over the top hate and every episode were comments about how Darren was so obviously sleeping with Ryan Murphy which was the only reason he was getting so much screentime and then he was an awful person for keeping his GMA appearance after Cory's death and then he was just an awful human being in general and then he was obnoxious and obviously seething with jealousy over Chris' success and etc. etc. 

 

And before it's stated, yes, I'm well aware that many of the actors get fandom hate. That being said, as someone who removed myself from all that fandom stuff (tumblr, twitter, etc.) my only points of reference was TWOP and now this board. And honestly, while I've read a lot of stuff about many of the characters, in terms of criticizing the actor, I do feel like Darren gets the larger share of that. And that is why I really do feel like the character and the actor blended into one for some. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

I feel like on Glee, it's almost pointless to spend too much time thinking about your character.

 

I think that many  good  actors "need" to , whether it's pointless or not; it's just part of their craft and approach for a role.

And there are some who neither love or hate him but are tired of the slightest thing he says or does being made into something bigger than it is. And I call bullshit on the dislike for him being based on "his talking but never saying anything" because I think it's very easy for anyone to avoid all things Darren Criss if they so choose to. But how would one find new ways to judge him.

 

It happens with all the actors.  Chris, Naya  and Lea get a lot of flak for things they said or did,  so I do think it's also bullshit that he's the most maligned special cupcake either as you seem to be implying.    I just get so tired that if he's criticized for foot in mouth it's "hatred".   Sometimes he's polarizing because of things he says.  It's not rocket science.

[fakeempress]

I neither love nor hate Darren. But he's interesting to me in terms of the persona. Call it an old professional reflex. So I still follow how his persona is presented and re-constructed, based on what comes to my attention, and he's been generous in supplying such material. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[truthaboutluv]

It happens with all the actors.  Chris, Naya  and Lea get a lot of flak for things they said or did,  so I do think it's also bullshit that he's the most maligned special cupcake either as you seem to be implying.

 

 

I'm not implying anything. I stated clearly what I thought and I stand by it. As I said, I'm well aware that there is fandom hate for many of the actors but I avoid fandom in terms of social media and other online sites. So my point of reference has really been TWOP and now here and it is my observation, I don't expect anyone to agree, that he does get the lion's share of criticism. 

 

Do many of the characters get criticisms, absolutely. I saw pages and pages of back and forth about Rachel, then the whole issue of Sam/Rachel versus Sam/Mercedes and then the newbies versus the older characters and Santana and her ending up with Brittany and who didn't love that because they hated Brittany and on an on. But in none of that did I read negative comments about Lea or Naya or Heather, etc. certainly not with the same consistency that it's made about Darren.

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Ceeg]

She was hired as a choreographer, then promoted to be on the show, then got progressively more screen time. She was only written out because she was pregnant, then came back for the biggest storyline outside Rachel's in season 6. She must be doing something right.

"Doing something right" doesn't necessarily mean that she was a 'yes man'. In the past, Heather has complained to the press before about different things going on with Brittany that she didn't necessarily agree with or like. So, idk, if she's going to tell an interviewer that, I don't think she'd have any qualms about expressing it to the person who wrote Brittany that way. Otherwise, it comes off as a little passive aggressive.

 

And there are some who neither love or hate him but are tired of the slightest thing he says or does being made into something bigger than it is. And I call bullshit on the dislike for him being based on "his talking but never saying anything" because I think it's very easy for anyone to avoid all things Darren Criss if they so choose to. But how would one find new ways to judge him. 

I feel like this could be a pointed comment about some posters here, including myself. And as of right now, this is the only Glee-related place that I check anymore. And here we are, in a general Glee thread, about marketing, discussing Darren. I didn't go trolling his tag to find quotes that he said, and I don't follow him on twitter or instagram. But, when someone posts a quote by him, in a general Glee thread, then why should I not read and respond to it? 

And tbh, I hate that argument in general. "If you didn't wanna know about him, then you don't have to." That's just not the way fandom works. I know way more about pretty much every actor on this show, because I've been so entrenched in fandom for years. And it's not because I specifically go looking for information about them. It's because, on discussion boards, about tv shows, people generally tend to, yanno, discuss things that all actors on the show are involved with.

 

 

And before it's stated, yes, I'm well aware that many of the actors get fandom hate. That being said, as someone who removed myself from all that fandom stuff (tumblr, twitter, etc.) my only points of reference was TWOP and now this board. And honestly, while I've read a lot of stuff about many of the characters, in terms of criticizing the actor, I do feel like Darren gets the larger share of that. And that is why I really do feel like the character and the actor blended into one for some.

If your only point-of-reference for the "hate" an actor gets is here and TWOP, I think your sample size is severely skewed. The reason gets a lot of criticism here is because he's one of the weakest actors on the show with one of the loudest fanbases. Of course he's going to get snarked on. Snark was the whole purpose of TWOP, as a board, and since most of us came from there, the attitude was bound to follow us. Snark and criticism =/= hate, though.

 

I think that many  good  actors "need" to , whether it's pointless or not; it's just part of their craft and approach for a role.

It happens with all the actors.  Chris, Naya  and Lea get a lot of flak for things they said or did,  so I do think it's also bullshit that he's the most maligned special cupcake either as you seem to be implying.    I just get so tired that if he's criticized for foot in mouth it's "hatred".   Sometimes he's polarizing because of things he says.  It's not rocket science.

Exactly. 

[phoenixrising]

I think that many good actors "need" to , whether it's pointless or not; it's just part of their craft and approach for a role.

It happens with all the actors. Chris, Naya and Lea get a lot of flak for things they said or did, so I do think it's also bullshit that he's the most maligned special cupcake either as you seem to be implying. I just get so tired that if he's criticized for foot in mouth it's "hatred". Sometimes he's polarizing because of things he says. It's not rocket science.

On Glee, I feel like that's a road to frustration. I don't know how Chris didn't tear his hair out by the end of Glee. I'm not saying no one should do it, but I can understand why working on a Ryan show, you might not. If he has the same approach to other projects, I might change my mind, but I don't really have plans to follow his career.

Also, I can confirm as a Naya Stan, she definitely gets a lot of hate, but I do think Darren gets more, and if I had to theorize, it's because his character was attached to Kurt. During Jagged Little Tapestry, I remember the Naya/Santana hate escalated a lot (also during Frenemies, because even though Lea also gets a lot of hate she's still more popular I believe).

For some people it is mixing up the character and actor. But I also think he was put into a position of higher scrutiny than someone like Chord (who I dislike more). If Darren had come on to be Mercedes or Tina's boyfriend, he probably would've never gotten as much attention as he has (positive or negative).

I'm aware he has said some dumb things, but I guess I look at it in the big scheme: he's not Woody Allen or Chris Brown who should really be jail and not in the industry. The dumb things he says don't bug me as much as some comments other celebrities have said. They've still taken him down a few pegs for me, but there are bigger celebrities who've done worse things.

Edited April 9, 2015 by phoenixrising

[caracas1914]

On Glee, I feel like that's a road to frustration. I don't know how Chris didn't tear his hair out by the end of Glee. I'm not saying no one should do it, but I can understand why working on a Ryan show, you might not.

 

I hear you, and yea,  it's not the actor's fault if the writers let them down. However,   I think some actors do take a lot of pride in their craft , and  they still feel the need to try to flesh out their characters somehow and maintain some kind of inner consistency. By and large actors like Jayma, Cory,  Chris, Lea and Naya achieved that with their roles on Glee and I don't think it's just a coincidence.

 

Even Dot I would imagine was trying to reimagine how Beistie now suddenly wanted to be a man, I think good actors can't help themselves, if only for their own "actor"  sanity.

Edited April 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

I'm aware he has said some dumb things, but I guess I look at it in the big scheme: he's not Woody Allen or Chris Brown who should really be jail and not in the industry. The dumb things he says don't bug me as much as some comments other celebrities have said. They've still taken him down a few pegs for me, but there are bigger celebrities who've done worse things.

Darren, along with Chord and Kevin always give me that 'clueless college student, never worked a day in their lives' feel from their interviews. They're not stupid, but they're not smart either. Though frankly that won't harm them in their line of work.

[Sara2009]

I know Matt also takes his craft very seriously, so I'm sure that led to some of his frustration with " Glee."

[truthaboutluv]

If your only point-of-reference for the "hate" an actor gets is here and TWOP, I think your sample size is severely skewed.

 

 

As I noted, I've gotten glances of the larger fandom so no, my sample size isn't only limited to TWOP. I chose to stop going to these places because they were a cesspool in my opinion and I preferred sticking with places that had intelligent, well thought out discussions about the show, good or bad. So once again, I'm not ignorant of the fact that hate exists for multiple actors from the show but I'm reading this board and posting on this board and so my comments are related to what I read and see here. .And what I read and see here, is a disproportionate amount of hate for Darren - not Blaine who is a fictional character, but the actor. 

 

Snark and criticism =/= hate, though.

 

 

Yes but the line between snark and hate is actually quite thin sometimes. 

 

And tbh, I hate that argument in general. "If you didn't wanna know about him, then you don't have to." That's just not the way fandom works. I know way more about pretty much every actor on this show, because I've been so entrenched in fandom for years. And it's not because I specifically go looking for information about them. It's because, on discussion boards, about tv shows, people generally tend to, yanno, discuss things that all actors on the show are involved with.

 

 

And I counter that one can make fandom whatever they want it to be for them. Case in point, I love The Vampire Diaries (well except for this crappy season) and I love Stefan/Paul Wesley. He is my favorite character on the show. I know very little about any of the cast beyond what happens on the show. When Paul got married, I found out reading People online and my reaction was, I didn't even know he had a girlfriend. The fact is fandom without question, can be a cesspool - between shippers of this and that pairing and who loves which actor and hates another one, etc. etc. but it is not unavoidable in my opinion. 

 

The reason gets a lot of criticism here is because he's one of the weakest actors on the show with one of the loudest fanbases.

 

 

Ah...this again. Right, he's deserving of all these hateful comments because in one's opinion he is not a good actor who dares to have a fanbase. So just to be clear, if he was talented in one's estimation, then it would be an issue? But at the end of the day, this is clearly an agree to disagree topic so I've said my piece and I'm done.

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[indeed]

I think that many good actors "need" to , whether it's pointless or not; it's just part of their craft and approach for a role.

Yup. Although, the actor doesn't necessarily have to be good, but some must approach their characters that way regardless of the quality of writing or the plot direction.

[caracas1914]

Yup. Although, the actor doesn't necessarily have to be good, but some must approach their characters that way regardless of the quality of writing or the plot direction.

 

What's the saying "There are no small roles, only small actors".   ;)  I would hope an actor would think he can make lemon out of lemonade if he has a good healthy ego, ie he thinks he/she is  that good.   . LOL.

Edited April 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[phoenixrising]

Darren, along with Chord and Kevin always give me that 'clueless college student, never worked a day in their lives' feel from their interviews. They're not stupid, but they're not smart either. Though frankly that won't harm them in their line of work.

I really like Kevin, but Darren and Chord both kind of have a frat bro vibe that can be kind of annoying, for sure. But wasn't Mark accused of sexual battery a while ago? I don't remember that really getting talked about, and in the grand scheme of things, I feel like that should garner more attention from fans than some of the stuff we argue about a lot. I'll be fair and say that I don't think I was really in the fandom at the time so it might've been, but I'd rather have to deal with annoying than dangerous.

[Ceeg]

Also, I can confirm as a Naya Stan, she definitely gets a lot of hate, but I do think Darren gets more, and if I had to theorize, it's because his character was attached to Kurt. During Jagged Little Tapestry, I remember the Naya/Santana hate escalated a lot (also during Frenemies, because even though Lea also gets a lot of hate she's still more popular I believe).

It just depends on what the definition of "hate" is for people. Is it legit criticism? Is it for something out of the actors' control? Is it actual hatred aimed at them specifically? Naya doesn't get a lot of criticism as an actor because she legitimately elevates the material she's given. Santana doesn't get a lot of "hate" as a character, because on a show like Glee, she's still one of the more entertaining and consistently written. But Naya gets a ton of hate for her personal life. And that's ACTUAL hate, aimed at her for doing or saying things that people don't agree with. That's actually what I'd call hate. 

 

So just to be clear, if he was talented in one's estimation, then it would be an issue? 

 

Well, yes. Why would anyone criticize talent? Lea, Chris, Naya, etc. don't get the same amount of criticism for their acting because, well, they're actually good at it.

 

I'm aware he has said some dumb things, but I guess I look at it in the big scheme: he's not Woody Allen or Chris Brown who should really be jail and not in the industry. The dumb things he says don't bug me as much as some comments other celebrities have said. They've still taken him down a few pegs for me, but there are bigger celebrities who've done worse things.

I don't think anyone is going overboard in their criticism of Darren to the lengths one would a pedophile or domestic abuser. 

Btw, I'm very confused about what "hateful comments" were made toward Darren in here.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[fakeempress]

 

And what I read and see here, is a disproportionate amount of hate for Darren - not Blaine who is a fictional character and so by all means, have at it. But the actor.

 

Ah...this again. Right, he's deserving of all these hateful comments

Which are all these hateful comments and hate exactly, as said here? Cause where I'm standing, I see (and have myself contributed with such, and not only wrt Darren) some low tolerance, criticism, and snark, but I don't recall hate in the sense of the "cesspool" that you always bring up. 

 

And this here is, as was said, a very small-sample, self-selected group -- compared to the old TWOP, not to speak of the tumblr and twitter-sphere. Not sure how it can be expected to be representative. In my opinion, it's not, especially of the hate you referenced. 

 

 

 

And here we are, in a general Glee thread, about marketing, discussing Darren. I didn't go trolling his tag to find quotes that he said, and I don't follow him on twitter or instagram. But, when someone posts a quote by him, in a general Glee thread, then why should I not read and respond to it?

And tbh, I hate that argument in general. "If you didn't wanna know about him, then you don't have to." That's just not the way fandom works. I know way more about pretty much every actor on this show, because I've been so entrenched in fandom for years. And it's not because I specifically go looking for information about them. It's because, on discussion boards, about tv shows, people generally tend to, yanno, discuss things that all actors on the show are involved with.

I don't know why some posters can't get that when they are on a fandom type site. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

I really like Kevin, but Darren and Chord both kind of have a frat bro vibe that can be kind of annoying, for sure. But wasn't Mark accused of sexual battery a while ago? I don't remember that really getting talked about, and in the grand scheme of things, I feel like that should garner more attention from fans than some of the stuff we argue about a lot. I'll be fair and say that I don't think I was really in the fandom at the time so it might've been, but I'd rather have to deal with annoying than dangerous.

I like Kevin, he's just a bit clueless, I mean describing people having trouble controlling wheelchairs with "welcome to my world"

Mark gives me the creeps after the stuff that was revealed in that lawsuit.

http://uk.eonline.com/news/639999/glee-s-mark-salling-settles-sexual-battery-lawsuit-with-former-girlfriend-ordered-to-pay-2-7-million

[caracas1914]

Matt Morrison used to have quite a lot of foot in mouth disease in interviews early on on Glee.  Later Matt  was sidelined so badly as an individual character as the show went on ; used mostly as a classroom prop for the younger cast as students that when he basically counting the days he was off the show it was hardly a shocker.   At least that's how it came across to me in several pointed interviews.

 

With Matt I always wondered if refusing to tour with the younger cast was part of his downfall, since it seems that after Season One the showrunners seemed to come to the conclusion that the students were the "stars" , contrasted with  in Season One  Matt's role as Will being arguably as large, if not larger than Lea's as Rachel.

Edited April 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

 

Well, yes. Why would anyone criticize talent? Lea, Chris, Naya, etc. don't get the same amount of criticism for their acting because, well, they're actually good at it.

I'd debate that point about Lea and Naya, but I hope Devious Maids proves me wrong. (No seen anything yet I'm likely to watch Lea in)

[phoenixrising]

It just depends on what the definition of "hate" is for people. Is it legit criticism? Is it for something out of the actors' control? Is it actual hatred aimed at them specifically? Naya doesn't get a lot of criticism as an actor because she legitimately elevates the material she's given. Santana doesn't get a lot of "hate" as a character, because on a show like Glee, she's still one of the more entertaining and consistently written. But Naya gets a ton of hate for her personal life. And that's ACTUAL hate, aimed at her for doing or saying things that people don't agree with. That's actually what I'd call hate.

I don't think anyone is going overboard in their criticism of Darren to the lengths one would a pedophile or domestic abuser.

Not so much on this board, but I have seen some really low blows at Darren for things unrelated to his talent (he's ugly, pointing out his bald spot, secretly sleeping with a producer, etc.). I think there's also ways to critize talent without being like "they're the worst person/actor/singer EVER!" And I do feel like a lot of Darren criticism does become that, even if there's truth in it. He's certainly not the worst. I get equally annoyed when people say everything Chris, Lea, and even Naya do is pure gold. I love Naya as a talent, but I've side-eyed some things she's said. I suppose extremes just frustrate me.

Also, I wasn't trying to claim that anyone was equating Darren to either of them. I was just saying, I only have so much room for celebrities to hate, and things like that take more priority than Darren sometimes saying dumb things.

[jaytee1812]

Matt Morrison used to have quite a lot of foot in mouth disease in interviews early on on Glee.

That should never go by without linking to this clip:

http://youtu.be/kwna2S8ph80

Chris and Cory's face are amazing!

(Who guessed what the clip was before clicking the link?)

[AndySmith]

As much as I thought Will was the Worst Teacher Ever...at least he was interesting initially. I mean, people forget he blackmailed Finn into joining the Glee club by planting drugs in Finn's locker!

[Ceeg]

Not so much on this board, but I have seen some really low blows at Darren for things unrelated to his talent (he's ugly, pointing out his bald spot, secretly sleeping with a producer, etc.). I think there's also ways to critize talent without being like "they're the worst person/actor/singer EVER!" And I do feel like a lot of Darren criticism does become that, even if there's truth in it. He's certainly not the worst.

The problem as it relates to this, though, is bringing things other people say on various other social media sites, and somehow relating it to this particular discussion. If you guys are talking about extreme Darren hate, unrelated to this discussion, then it really has nothing to do with our criticism of Darren in here right now. This isn't the Fandom thread, where the discussion started out as an observation of fandom across the entirety of the internet. So, I get confused about the white-knighting for him, in this particular discussion, over something so benign and minor as me saying I don't believe he seems like the kind of actor who really thinks about character choices and motivations. Or that I find it funny that he complained about singing live, given his career right now. Neither of which are extreme criticisms, or "hate" IMO.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Darren seems to provoke a lot of "hate", but also gets the most outrage on his behalf.  We slam the first set of Noobs on pretty much a daily basis, over and over, and yet only one person in here comes to their defense.  

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[jaytee1812]

We slam the first set of Noobs on pretty much a daily basis, over and over, and yet only one person in here comes to their defense.

Glad some admits that and doesn't dress it up as criticisms of 'storylines' or the 'direction of the show'.

[indeed]

What's the saying "There are no small roles, only small actors". ;) I would hope an actor would think he can make lemon out of lemonade if he has a good healthy ego, ie he thinks he/she is that good. . LOL.

Well, yes, an actor would have to have a pretty healthy ego (or be a serious glutton for punishment) to put him/herself through the audition process over and over and over again.

And now I'm thinking of Joey Tribbiani acting when being Al Pacino's butt double...he tried to make the most of it! LOL

I think the term "hate" gets bandied about a bit too much when sometimes the conversation just gets critical. And a disproportionate amount of hate? There may be a few posters that side-eye DC at times, but I don't see a lot of hate around here.

[phoenixrising]

The problem as it relates to this, though, is bringing things other people say on various other social media sites, and somehow relating it to this particular discussion. If you guys are talking about extreme Darren hate, unrelated to this discussion, then it really has nothing to do with our criticism of Darren in here right now. This isn't the Fandom thread, where the discussion started out as an observation of fandom across the entirety of the internet. So, I get confused about the white-knighting for him, in this particular discussion, over something so benign and minor as me saying I don't believe he seems like the kind of actor who really thinks about character choices and motivations. Or that I find it funny that he complained about singing live, given his career right now. Neither of which are extreme criticisms, or "hate" IMO.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Darren seems to provoke the most "hate", but also the most outrage on his behalf. We slam the first set of Noobs on pretty much a daily basis, over and over, and yet only one person in here comes to their defense.

I wouldn't say I'm white-knighting him. Earlier in the thread, I acknowledged he says some stupid things.

I just think everything he says gets picked apart, and it's just kind of ridiculous to me. I don't feel like it happens, as often, as it does with other actors on the show. And sometimes he does say things I agree with (like how dumb Blaine proposing was). Like, it comes across like he just always does everything wrong, and that gets frustrating, since I don't think that's the case. I also don't think he does everything right.

I can't remember if I ever slammed the newbies (I might've), but I suppose the Darren criticism does tend to come off harsher to me. On the record, I hated their poorly written story lines more than them. I'm actually happy Melissa is onto better things than Glee.

Anyway, I'm going to back out of this thread until the topic changes, before everyone jumps down my throat.

[fakeempress]

 

What's the saying "There are no small roles, only small actors". ;) I would hope an actor would think he can make lemon out of lemonade if he has a good healthy ego, ie he thinks he/she is that good. . LOL.

Reminds me of Naya saying in the recent Oral History articles how she made damn sure to create specific reactions for Santana when she had no material to work with, so that the camera will be on her. Served her very well. I've said before, that's what a smart actor does. 

[Ceeg]

 

Anyway, I'm going to back out of this thread until the topic changes, before everyone jumps down my throat.

I didn't mean to make you leave! I don't even really care enough to continue to criticize Darren beyond what I said in my first post about it. I was just making a stray comment about him, which somehow turned into me feeling the need to defend said comment rather than a discussion about the actual subject at hand.

 

Reminds me of Naya saying in the recent Oral History articles how she made damn sure to create specific reactions for Santana when she had no material to work with, so that the camera will be on her. Served her very well. I've said before, that's what a smart actor does. 

I'm going to respond in the Acting thread, because now I think we're veering wildly off-topic.

[Ceeg]

From the Marketing thread, re: Darren's quote:

 

Reminds me of Naya saying in the recent Oral History articles how she made damn sure to create specific reactions for Santana when she had no material to work with, so that the camera will be on her. Served her very well. I've said before, that's what a smart actor does.

I think, for me, what it comes down to is that's the kind of acting that I can respect. An actor who comes in and, not only knows their lines, but actually knows their character, vs. someone who just shows up and gets paid. And I realize that a good script can go a long way for character study, but I think that's what separates a good actor from a phoning-it-in actor. What they can do beyond the written words. And what they can do despite the written words.

And, I think that absolutely comes across on screen too. Character research and thought enhances a performance.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[dizzyizzy01]

I think the cast could be divided into three groups of people.

The well behaved cast members who did what they were told and didn't argue. They probably got what the writers thought was preferential treatment. (Lea, Darren, Chord, Heather, Becca).

Those who didn't do as they were told, and we're sidelined. (Matt, Chris, Naya, Diana).

Those it didn't matter because the writers either couldn't writer for them or didn't want to, so they were picked up and put down as they felt like it. (Jenna, Harry, Kevin Amber).

 

I still think with Matt, Chris, Naya and Dianna, the writers lost interest or didn't know what to do with these characters.  Kevin, Jenna, Harry and Amber never really had the writers' interest.  Dianna didn't get sidelined until she actually left the show.  She had bizarre nonsensical storylines, but she wasn't sidelined when she was there.  With Matt, they clearly shifted attention from the adults to the students after S1.  Naya and Chris got sidelined in S4 along with Lea actually because of the focus on the newbies and McKinley.  I mean of Chris was supposedly "making noise" from S1, how do you rationalize the heavy Kurt focus in S2? I just don't think there's "intentional punishment."  There's super shitty writing and a lack of interest in good solid character development, but I feel like it's fan projection that they were "sidelined" for speaking up.  The writers just stopped being interested in telling stories for certain characters.  

[caracas1914]

just think everything he says gets picked apart, and it's just kind of ridiculous to me. I don't feel like it happens, as often, as it does with other actors on the show. And sometimes he does say things I agree with (like how dumb Blaine proposing was). Like, it comes across like he just always does everything wrong, and that gets frustrating, since I don't think that's the case. I also don't think he does everything right.

 

If an actor gives an interview and says nothing out of ordinary or foot in mouth, maybe there's  a reason it's not commented upon? Just saying.

 

Funny you mentioned the proposal, when  Darren talked about it an interview and  yes, it was the rare  ocassion he critized what the writers did openly IIRC he  said something like , "Chris and I have not been done down with it since day one."  I'm sorry but  it  annoyed me that he had to find cover with his co-star instead of owning up to his own opinion. 

 

He got flak not for criticizing the storyline, but the chicken shit way he went about it.  However to point that out is "hatred",  just like when he said in an interview that high school hiearchies are all "in student's heads/minds " whatever.  He frequently babbles in interviews, and I just don't get how if it's his weakness and he keeps on doing it, ie  he's supplying the material somehow it's all hatred to point out how badly he comes across.

[Ceeg]

 I just don't think there's "intentional punishment."  There's super shitty writing and a lack of interest in good solid character development, but I feel like it's fan projection that they were "sidelined" for speaking up.  The writers just stopped being interested in telling stories for certain characters.  

Well, Ryan pretty much point blank said it happens with his New Normal meta. Plus, there was that Jane quote about not being on Ryan's bad side or he'll write it in the show. And, they literally wrote Naya off the show at the end of season five. So, there might be some fan projection in there, but I think there are some truths too.

[caracas1914]

I think of specific moments where Naya conveyed Santana's thoughts with just one look, no speaking involved.   Not so much the eye rolling, which is much easier, but the wistful longing she conveyed vis a vis Brittany.

[phoenixrising]

Two Naya acting moments that really stand out for me:

1. Her face after she slept with Finn. It really painted a whole story about her sexual relationships with guys. At that time I doubt it was about being a lesbian, in the script, but just how empty she felt.

2. The Quarterback, particularly during Fire and Rain. I could tell from just looking at her that she was probably going to lose it later.

[Ceeg]

I think of specific moments where Naya conveyed Santana's thoughts with just one look, no speaking involved.   Not so much the eye rolling, which is much easier, but the wistful longing she conveyed vis a vis Brittany.

That one always kills me. It's the look she gives right after Brittany says she made a card for Kurt that says 'heart attacks are just from loving too much', and this was only 2.03, they hadn't even filmed Duets, so it was even before there was any kind of textual hint at them having more than just sexual feelings for each other.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[jaytee1812]

I don't know if this is the writing or the acting, or a combination of both. But, you're right Naya basically always played Santana as though she was in love with Brittany when she's with Brittany. My problem was, and this is where I'm not sure if it's the writing or acting, but every other interaction Santana has says this is the kind of person who wouldn't give Brittany the time of day, never mind be friends, and she sure as hell wouldn't marry her.

[Sara2009]

I hear you, and yea, it's not the actor's fault if the writers let them down. However, I think some actors do take a lot of pride in their craft , and they still feel the need to try to flesh out their characters somehow and maintain some kind of inner consistency. By and large actors like Jayma, Cory, Chris, Lea and Naya achieved that with their roles on Glee and I don't think it's just a coincidence.

Even Dot I would imagine was trying to reimagine how Beistie now suddenly wanted to be a man, I think good actors can't help themselves, if only for their own "actor" sanity.

Personally, I would add Jane and Matt to that list.

[dizzyizzy01]

Well, Ryan pretty much point blank said it happens with his New Normal meta. Plus, there was that Jane quote about not being on Ryan's bad side or he'll write it in the show. And, they literally wrote Naya off the show at the end of season five. So, there might be some fan projection in there, but I think there are some truths too.

 

Oh I absolutely believe, Ryan will make fun or base storylines off of real-life happenings, but I don't think there's any intentional sidelining.  If they had a story to write, no matter how crappy, they were going to write it.  It didn't matter who the characters/actors involved were.  To me, New Normal meta seemed to be picking fun at the commentary/speculation surrounding the show.  The jokes were in poor taste, but if I remember correctly, at that point Dianna had already left the show.

 

The one instance I believe there was intentional change of direction due to BTS disagreements is with Naya.  Something else went on there, but it wasn't a simple Naya spoke up against her character and was sidelined.  I'm pretty sure something else must have happened there if you're writing a character out of episodes last minute.

 

ETA:  I also don't think any of these writers had the foresight to intentionally sideline characters.  That'd require more planning than they're capable of.

Edited April 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[Ceeg]

The one instance I believe there was intentional change of direction due to BTS disagreements is with Naya.  Something else went on there, but it wasn't a simple Naya spoke up against her character and was sidelined.  I'm pretty sure something else must have happened there if you're writing a character out of episodes last minute.

I didn't mean that Naya's departure was due to her speaking out for her character. It wasn't. Just that the producers' personal feelings about actors, for whatever reason, can bleed into what's being written (or not written) on the show. I mean, this is a tv show that routinely wrote real life situations from the actors into the show, so I don't see why they wouldn't do the opposite too.

[Ceeg]

I don't know if this is the writing or the acting, or a combination of both. But, you're right Naya basically always played Santana as though she was in love with Brittany when she's with Brittany. My problem was, and this is where I'm not sure if it's the writing or acting, but every other interaction Santana has says this is the kind of person who wouldn't give Brittany the time of day, never mind be friends, and she sure as hell wouldn't marry her.

 

For me, personally, that's why they worked so well together as a couple. Because Brittany was the one person who could kind of break down those walls and turn this hardcore hell-on-wheels bitch into a ball of mush. Opposites attract and all that. You can't be a bitch 24/7, at some point, you have to let your guard down with someone and let someone love you. The fact that that person was Brittany (who was, as Santana put it "beautiful, innocent, and everything good in this miserable stinking world") makes total sense to me. I think they worked well as a couple on the page, and I think they worked well together in action.

 

/shipper goggles activated 

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[AndySmith]

A couple other great Naya/Santana moments:

 

1) When she and Quinn are slow dancing during "We've Got Tonight", and Quinn mentions how it's her first time slow dancing with a woman, and we cut to see Sanata has this lovely, reassuring smile

 

2) When Blaine is singing "It's Not Right, But It's OK", she has a awesome reaction shot while looking at Kurt

 

3) All the looks during "Landslide"

 

I could see Santana easily being with Brittney.

[jaytee1812]

A couple other great Naya/Santana moments:

1) When she and Quinn are slow dancing during "We've Got Tonight", and Quinn mentions how it's her first time slow dancing with a woman, and we cut to see Sanata has this lovely, reassuring smile.

I'm no Quintana shipper but would've totally bought them together. That ONS is my favourite part of that episode.

I hate Landslide. Much as I loathe Sam and Artie singing to each other like that in front of them was just heartless.

I never bought Brittany as beautiful and innocent, and I mean beautiful in the internal sense. And I think that is down to Heather's acting. I think she was written as innocent and unaware of what she was doing, I think Heather played it, intentionally or not, like she knew she was a bitch and others wrote it off as her being stupid.

[Ceeg]

2) When Blaine is singing "It's Not Right, But It's OK", she has a awesome reaction shot while looking at Kurt

 

There's a really funny gifset somewhere of all her Blaine reaction shots.

 

Also, the shocked-repulsed-disgusted reaction shot she has to Finn when he starts that Hall and Oates mashup is probably my favorite of all time.

[Kromm]

Why did they not make S2 Rachel Berry defecting to Vocal Adrenalin and becoming an antagonist to ND.   

 

 

Because the underlying theme of the show was that the sum of the group of ND was stronger than its individual parts.  Rachel wanted to be part of something special not be an antagonist to it.  That line was what set up her entire arc on the show.  The line wasn't being an antagonist to something special makes you special.  

Also, if they were going with having someone defect to Vocal Adrenaline, almost any other character would have made more sense. Sure there were the connections to her Bio Mother and Jesse St. Whatever to explore, but in terms of attitude, a character like Santana, for example, would have made much more sense for that kind of story (including learning her lesson and coming back to New Directions eventually).

[AndySmith]

I never saw Heather playing it as a bitch at all, intentionally or not. To each their own, I guess.

 

Also, the shocked-repulsed-disgusted reaction shot she has to Finn when he starts that Hall and Oates mashup is probably my favorite of all time.

 

Which song was that? i might have to check it out on Youtube just for her reaction shot...

[Ceeg]

Which song was that? i might have to check it out on Youtube just for her reaction shot...

 

LOL I'll save you the time. It's the You Make My Dreams Come True/I Can't Go For That mashup. And she reacts right as the song starts and Finn bebops out onto the stage, all decked out in that blazer and pink shirt and fluffy hair.

Idk why, but that reaction shot was always my favorite. Maybe because she goes through an entire range of emotions in 1 second. She's like surprised, then horrified, then disgusted.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg