Acting, or at least a facsimile of it...

[KatWay]

I'm not missing your point. You believe it's a choice and his acting is wonderfully subtle, nuanced and understated. I get that his fans would see it that way and you're definitely not alone in that view. Others, like me, see bored and disinterested and think it's just the actor understandably being over it. Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

[fakeempress]

I think when it's said Chris comes across as bored in his acting, it means he's not bothering to make any acting choice at all as opposed to making a bad choice.

 

Re Chris not playing S5 Kurt in love, the writing basically plunged Klaine into drama from the get-go of the NY arc. I got that the purpose of the SL was to bring out residual or unresolved issues from the cheating and the engagement decision. It was portrayed as a quasi-adversarial relationship and that's what I got Chris was playing as an active layer. The love was a passive layer so to say but I saw it clearly in quite a few scenes from Chris, just not the puppy eyes and ott type of course, - that would've been a false note for me. Maybe Chris played it too realistically for the style of the show, but I think he did play Kurt who cared for Blaine but also Kurt who was at that time dealing with a bucketful of issues, both his and Blaine's. 

 

For me, it was Chord who didn't do anything different with Sam in love in the Mercedes arc last season, as opposed to Sam not in a relationship. At the same time, I was pleasantly surprised with Amber, who seemed to me leaps and bounds better than her previous seasons. 

. 

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

You believe it's a choice

 

It's always a choice, thus why they are called actors.

 

Let's just agree to disagree on that one.

 

That's fine.  Someone saying they think Chris' acting is bad I can deal with it.  Subjective criteria and all that.

 

The disagreement lies in saying acting choices translate to the actor  is not even  trying anymore.  So i Have no problem agreeing to disagree with that premise regarding Chris.   

Edited December 26, 2014 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

I do think Colfer is making specific choices and so is Criss. But I think that the choices they're making individually don't mesh well, and none of the directors notice or care enough to address it. I think Colfer is savvy enough not to willfully hurt his future career options by suddenly and obviously deciding not to give a crap anymore, but I wonder if he used to push back more when Kurt was written a particular way he didn't agree with and scenes were modified so the characters were more in sync. And maybe now he just plays the scene however the hell he wants since that's what everyone else is doing.

[KatWay]

 

It's always a choice, thus why they are called actors.

Yeah, cause there's not myriads of examples of actors phoning it in on television or even in movies.

[fakeempress]

I think Darren has been very predictable in his choices. For example, I couldn't tell a difference between Blaine crushing on Sam, and Blaine being in love and trying to get back with Kurt, and it was important to differentiate there because the stories were concurrent. He was acting the same way, down to the way Blaine played Against All Odds to Sam. 

He had a better handle on original recipe Blaine before the writers rebooted him in S3.  

[caracas1914]

I always go back to the last episodes of Season 4 where Kurt is still ambivalent about Blaine (can't decide if  being comfortable around Blaine makes him happy or sad)  and pronounces "We're not a couple".

 

Then the first episode of Season 5 they have them hooking up again, Kurt questioning if they're too young to be get married, and yet then agreeing to a marriage proposal  WTF?

 

I also think the script  portrayed Blaine in the last part of Season 5 if not demented, well pretty much a lot of questionable conduct.  In "NY"  They have him smothering Kurt by joining all his classes in NYADA, threatening his friend Elliot with a demented "back off" speech.  (Seriously, I thought   Blaine was going to boil a rabbit on the stove next).,in "Bashed" they have him trying to fatten Kurt  up to  feel better about himself and admitting it's a competition and  he doesn't like Kurt being admired by others,  They have him deliberately lying to Kurt for an  extended period of time  over the showcase with June.

 

With Kurt they have him feeling smothered by Blaine and calling him pouty and a "psycho".  They have him upset that Blaine wants to redecorate "MY" apartment." and they have Kurt having to swallow down disappointment that an outside person (june) chose Blaine over him again.  They also have Kurt accuse Blaine of lying to him and flinging across the room a sack lunch  in substitution of Blaine's head.

 

That is what the script calls for.. So the actors make choices based on that shitty, inconsistent script.    Blaine's characterization is fairly consistent in that he's needy, clingy and Kurt holds his balls in his hands.   The script on the other hand has Kurt confronting this WTF scenarios with his psycho boyfriend, forgiving him and then saying he's in it for the long haul.   The wired "pigeon" scene in 5.20 where Kurt looks resigned  was pitch perfect I thought, and in a weird way the show with these writers is saying they are soul mates and yet incompatible on some fundamental level.  Wherewith that's deliberate or just shitty writing I confess I have no clue.  So yea, I'm not surprised by some of the actor choices.

 

If Chris didn't  make the choices he did for Kurt, IMO  the character would appear just as demented as Blaine.   Say what you will with Chris, his choices for Kurt are consistent, and if you look at Season 6 spoilers, actually makes sense for what follows.

Kurt breaks up with Blaine because  they move in yet again and can't stop arguing..

 

In fact knowing what we do about Season 6 first couple of episodes, I find it ironic that Chris's acting choices is criticized when it's deadon accurate.

Edited December 26, 2014 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

I also think the script  portrayed Blaine in the last part of Season 5 if not demented, well pretty much a lot of questionable conduct.  In "NY"  They have him smothering Kurt by joining all his classes in NYADA, threatening his friend Elliot with a demented "back off" speech.  (Seriously, I thought   Blaine was going to boil a rabbit on the stove next).,in "Bashed" they have him trying to fatten Kurt  up to  feel better about himself and admitting it's a competition and  he doesn't like Kurt being admired by others,  They have him deliberately lying to Kurt for an  extended period of time  over the showcase with June.

And what's mind boggling about this is I think we're supposed to be rooting for our hero Blaine in all of this. I'm not sure of course. The last scene of the series might be a long, slow shot pulling back to show Blaine in a jail cell a la Side Show Bob, having cooked Kurt into a pie (bonus Sweeney Todd solo for Criss!!1!).

[Glorfindel]

In fact knowing what we do about Season 6 first couple of episodes, I find it ironic that Chris's acting choices is criticized when it's deadon accurate.

Which makes you wonder how Chris will act Kurt's scenes in season 6 (from what we know so far), especially 6x07 and 6x08.

Will he stay true to Kurt's character and still put some reasonable doubts on his relationship in Kurt's expressions, like he did during the proposal? Or will he eventually throw his towel in the ring (and who would blame him knowing what's going to happen next) and imitate Darren's puppy eyes for the remainder of the last season?

 

I fear Darren will act his scenes with Karofsky similar to when Blaine was pining over Kurt while he was simultaneously crushing on Sam: exactly the same, with equal intensity. Going from engaged to Kurt in the summer to looking at Dave with those same puppy eyes in the spring,.... well that will be totally believable.

With Blaine then wanting Kurt back again when he's still in a relationship with Karofsky, Darren's undifferentiated acting when Blaine is supposed to be torn between 2 lovers might make even a bigger mess of an already very messy storyline.

 

I know all actors on Glee basically are screwed with the terrible and inconsistent writing for their characters, but imo it does make a difference when an actor can give nuances in their scenes, so they can still somewhat hold on to the essence of their character and how they should react in a situation if Glee were a better written show.

Of course, even the greatest actors can only do so much with shoddy material like the Glee writers poop out, but still: some are better at salvaging the little they can than others.

Edited December 26, 2014 by Glorfindel

[phoenixrising]

 

If Chris didn't  make the choices he did for Kurt, IMO  the character would appear just as demented as Blaine.   Say what you will with Chris, his choices for Kurt are consistent, and if you look at Season 6 spoilers, actually makes sense for what follows.

Kurt breaks up with Blaine because  they move in yet again and can't stop arguing..

 

In fact knowing what we do about Season 6 first couple of episodes, I find it ironic that Chris's acting choices is criticized when it's deadon accurate.

 

I have a feeling that choice ended up happening as a result of Chris's acting, and probably anyone not in the Klaine fandom thinking he looked depressed (because some people did just think "that was sweet"). I mean, in the finale they also made it seem like Sam would be resurrecting the Glee club. These are not writing known for planning things out. 

 

I'll be interested in seeing how he acts whenever Klaine inevitably reunite.

[phoenixrising]

Which makes you wonder how Chris will act Kurt's scenes in season 6 (from what we know so far), especially 6x07 and 6x08.

Will he stay true to Kurt's character and still put some reasonable doubts on his relationship in Kurt's expressions, like he did during the proposal? Or will he eventually throw his towel in the ring (and who would blame him knowing what's going to happen next) and imitate Darren's puppy eyes for the remainder of the last season?

 

 

I know all actors on Glee basically are screwed with the terrible and inconsistent writing for their characters, but imo it does make a difference when an actor can give nuances in their scenes, so they can still somewhat hold on to the essence of their character and how they should react in a situation if Glee were a better written show. Of course, they can only do so much with the shoddy material, but still: some are better at salvaging the little they can than others.

 

See, this is why I get frustrated by what some are calling nuance, and others view as boredom. If it is nuance, it is directly contradicted by what the script is telling us. Instead of adding nuance to the character, it just leaves me feeling confused by the character, the relationship, everything. On a better written show, I think I could see it as nuance, but because Glee is what we have, I just want everyone on the same page so I can at least believe a moment, even if the story as a whole will never make any kind of sense. Granted, I think the points you made about Darren are equally as true, in that I was confused about whether he was supposed to still be pining over Kurt during the Sam thing, or if he was over it (and I thought over it which is one of many reasons the wedding is a big WTF to me and the moment I realized there is no or little hope for Glee). 

 

I am actually really confused about why whoever (director, RIB, someone else?) doesn't try to get more of the puppy-dog love kind of thing out of Chris. I do think they want us to see to see Klaine like that. It's odd, unless they're just at that level of not caring. 

[fakeempress]

I am actually really confused about why whoever (director, RIB, someone else?) doesn't try to get more of the puppy-dog love kind of thing out of Chris. I do think they want us to see to see Klaine like that. It's odd, unless they're just at that level of not caring. 

I said Darren makes predictable acting choices and the puppy dog eyes are one of them, regardless of where his character's at, he's got them (Sam, Kurt, w/e). But why expect Chris to play puppy dog love when his character has long been out of this stage of initial infatuation, and has gone through a rude awakening as to how love can betray you. If after that you expect the same puppy dog kind of love to be played, I think you have the wrong expectations and misread the character. Maybe that's why the directors haven't insisted on Chris doing the puppy dog eyes. I feel like people have accepted puppy dog to be default expression for love in the Klaine couple because it's so easy to come across, especially for those who don;t care about Klaine or the individual characters in it and won't pay much detailed attention there. And that's also why Darren's using it indiscriminately. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[Myrna123]

I think another aspect of the Kurt/Blaine dynamic is that RIB regretted having Blaine cheat on Kurt so in they more or less erased it from canon. Kurt and Blaine never had a single conversation about why they broke up, how they changed because of the break up, why it will work now when it didn't before. Not a single conversation and really only a couple of jokey references (and not even with classic Hummel passive aggressiveness) about Blaine cheating on him.

My sense is that Criss plays exactly what is on the script page in front of him and that he has as much memory of who Blaine is one scene to the next as the writers do. And who's to say that's wrong? It's certainly pushed him to the front of the Glee stage. Maybe Colfer wasn't willing to tow the party line about the cheating not being a big deal and that's part of the reason his screen time has faded. I have a hard time picturing him refusing a director's direction, but it's certainly possible.

[caracas1914]

Maybe the showrunners and writers are "over" Glee and just phoning it in?

All kidding aside, it boils down to the ineptitude of the writers to conceive a relationship on Glee that the GA can root for or believe genuinely is compatible.

The SL's make any characterization the actors attempt inconsistent by the nature of the writing. I dare say the writers don't see the contradictory way they write Klaine from one scene to the next.

BTW, this is the second thread this week where Chris acting is held "responsible" for a non acting factor, in this case, for forcing the writers to come up with a SL to accommodate it in season 6 or reducing his screentime because of his refusal to toe the line, acting wise.

Maybe, just maybe, the writers could be held accountable for the shitty way they make the actors try make sense of convoluted and contradictory SL's as far as acting choices.

What's next? Chris acting responsible for the shortened 13 episode order by FOX?

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[Glorfindel]

I have a feeling that choice ended up happening as a result of Chris's acting, and probably anyone not in the Klaine fandom thinking he looked depressed (because some people did just think "that was sweet"). I mean, in the finale they also made it seem like Sam would be resurrecting the Glee club. These are not writing known for planning things out.

Do you really suggest Chris has so much clout in the writers' room that RIB made that choice just because Chris wasn't happy with it?

When Chris never seemed to be able to get the storylines he pitched after season 2, nor will probably see his biggest wish for Kurt come true in season 6: Kurt having some sort of individual success and/or personal fulfillment.

 

Both Darren and Chris weren't on board with Klaine getting engaged in season 5, thinking they were too young (which they were), but RIB went ahead with it anyway. So why would Chris' acting choices now compell them to change a possible happy Klaine season long storyline arc?

And if Chris really had stubbornly acted against everything the writers intented for Klaine, so much so that they found it necessary to rewrite Klaine for the entire last season, then why wasn't he corrected on the spot? Firmly talked to a few times?

 

Unless the writers finally saw what Chris sees (if our speculations on his feelings for Klaine are correct) and actually agreed with how Kurt reacted to Blaine in season 5 (which in itself would be an embarrassing admittance of their lack of creativity, inability to keep continuity, and not being capable of writing decent relationships to begin with).

But I simply can't buy that because the way it looks now the writers will make the same stupid mistakes with Klaine over and over again in season 6, and ending right back where they were at the end of season 5, only this time with a whole load more problematic bagage and an even heavier chain around Kurt's neck. If the writers intented to fix Klaine's problems in season 6, explicitly problems caused by Chris' acting of Kurt in season 5, I'm afraid they are not doing a very good job with it.

I'm sure that's totally not what Chris wanted when he supposedly rebelled, using his acting choices. Klaine's/Kurt's storylines in season 6 sound more like a punishment than a reward to me.

 

I am actually really confused about why whoever (director, RIB, someone else?) doesn't try to get more of the puppy-dog love kind of thing out of Chris. I do think they want us to see to see Klaine like that. It's odd, unless they're just at that level of not caring.

Or perhaps they are perfectly okay with Chris acting Kurt that way as long as Kurt still expresses he loves and chooses Blaine every now and then (and imo Chris acted those scenes convincingly and on point), preferrably at the end of the episode, to tie things neatly in a bow. It's not a secret that RIB's, especially Ryan's, only way to write relationships is creating a (ridiculous but damaging) conflict and then quickly move on to the grand reconciling, romantic gesture in the last scene. They don't seem to care about the stuff inbetween.

Maybe they are indeed too careless to watch their own damn show, but then it's also their own fault their writing makes even less sense than it already does, because that's what you get when you leave a set full of actors unattended without giving them firm instructions.

 

I'm actually more surprised how they never stopped Darren and Chord from acting so badly, but instead gave them even more screentime.

 

Tbh, I'm not sure how the writers want us to see Klaine anymore. Maybe they genuinely still think they're writing an epic lovestory (like I think how they also considered Finchel was), but with the way they are especially writing Blaine it could also be that they are just majorly trolling the (young) shippers just because they're bored, and Chris' wary acting of Kurt would then only suit their intentions.

 

BTW, this is the second thread where Chris acting is held responsible for a non acting factor, in this case, for forcing the writers to cone up with a SL to accommodate it in season 6.

 

What's next? Chris acting responsible for the shortened 13 episode order by FOX?

Lol, this.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Glorfindel

[fakeempress]

 

I think another aspect of the Kurt/Blaine dynamic is that RIB regretted having Blaine cheat on Kurt so in they more or less erased it from canon. Kurt and Blaine never had a single conversation about why they broke up, how they changed because of the break up, why it will work now when it didn't before. Not a single conversation and really only a couple of jokey references (and not even with classic Hummel passive aggressiveness) about Blaine cheating on him.

 

I don't think RIB regretted the cheating at all. I've certainly seen no indication from them about it. As for the lack of follow-through - is that an exception on Glee by any chance? RIB mess up  stuff about couples all the time, like Santana saying - I forget the exact words, that Brit broke up with her when it was Santana; and Finchel broken up or not broken up in S3 finale. RIB always want the best of both worlds: sensationalist couples drama, and omg soulmates for ever, for couples like Finchel and Klaine at least, if not all. After a few rounds of that, there is no way it's sustainable and believable, but they will carry on with the soulmates and drama until the end.

 

 

I have a feeling that choice ended up happening as a result of Chris's acting, and probably anyone not in the Klaine fandom thinking he looked depressed (because some people did just think "that was sweet"). 

Based on what I said above, and in general, it's next to impossible for Chris's acting in the NY arc to be the reason for what's coming out of the writers' room, especially for S6. Wasn't there a Brad Falchuk interview last winter where he hinted at their plans for

Karofsky

or I'm mixing it up with something else? I also think Chris was only partly joking when he said his instructions about ODNT were not to break Klaine up, and not to kill anyone.

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

The one actor who can sustain consistent characterization because essentially she operates in a bubble is Jane Lynch. Coach Sue is a cartoon whose character makes absolutely no sense at all. She's played so broadly and previous SL's evaporate before the next Sue barrage.

The Glee club has been unilaterally kind to her (performing at her sister's funeral), moved her ( the death of Finn and his legacy at McKinley High) and she's even now has a child but the cartoon villain structure of Coach Sue makes her impervious to any analysis.

I would think as an actor it's somewhat easy for Jane to play her to the hilt, since there is no "there", "there".

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[phoenixrising]

Do you really suggest Chris has so much clout in the writers' room that RIB made that choice just because Chris wasn't happy with it?

When Chris never seemed to be able to get the storylines he pitched after season 2, nor will probably see his biggest wish for Kurt come true in season 6: Kurt having some sort of individual success and/or personal fulfillment.

 

Both Darren and Chris weren't on board with Klaine getting engaged in season 5, thinking they were too young (which they were), but RIB went ahead with it anyway. So why would Chris' acting choices now compell them to change a possible happy Klaine season long storyline arc?

And if Chris really had stubbornly acted against everything the writers intented for Klaine, so much so that they found it necessary to rewrite Klaine for the entire last season, then why wasn't he corrected on the spot? Firmly talked to a few times?

 

Unless the writers finally saw what Chris sees (if our speculations on his feelings for Klaine are correct) and actually agreed with how Kurt reacted to Blaine in season 5 (which in itself would be an embarrassing admittance of their lack of creativity, inability to keep continuity, and not being capable of writing decent relationships to begin with).

But I simply can't buy that because the way it looks now the writers will make the same stupid mistakes with Klaine over and over again in season 6, and ending right back where they were at the end of season 5, only this time with a whole load more problematic bagage and an even heavier chain around Kurt's neck. If the writers intented to fix Klaine's problems in season 6, explicitly problems caused by Chris' acting of Kurt in season 5, I'm afraid they are not doing a very good job with it.

I'm sure that's totally not what Chris wanted when he supposedly rebelled, using his acting choices. Klaine's/Kurt's storylines in season 6 sound more like a punishment than a reward to me.

 

Or perhaps they are perfectly okay with Chris acting Kurt that way as long as Kurt still expresses he loves and chooses Blaine every now and then (and imo Chris acted those scenes convincingly and on point), preferrably at the end of the episode, to tie things neatly in a bow. It's not a secret that RIB's, especially Ryan's, only way to write relationships is creating a (ridiculous but damaging) conflict and then quickly move on to the grand reconciling, romantic gesture in the last scene. They don't seem to care about the stuff inbetween.

Maybe they are indeed too careless to watch their own damn show, but then it's also their own fault their writing makes even less sense than it already does, because that's what you get when you leave a set full of actors unattended without giving them firm instructions.

 

I'm actually more surprised how they never stopped Darren and Chord from acting so badly, but instead gave them even more screentime.

 

Tbh, I'm not sure how the writers want us to see Klaine anymore. Maybe they genuinely still think they're writing an epic lovestory (like I think how they also considered Finchel was), but with the way they are especially writing Blaine it could also be that they are just majorly trolling the (young) shippers just because they're bored, and Chris' wary acting of Kurt would then only suit their intentions.

 

Lol, this.

 

No, I don't think Chris has the clout. I think Glee THOUGHT all of the stuff in the season 5 was a lot more fluffy than the non-Klaine fandom took it, but the rest of us saw Kurt looked miserable. Hence, the stuff in the beginning of season 6 (plus their terrible ideas, of course). 

 

I doubt he was firmly talked to, because of laziness on their parts, which is probably why Chord and Darren's mediocrity continues. Glee's known for shooting longer than most shows, even when things are going right, so they probably don't have time for anyone in the cast do to a lot of different takes. As long as it's passable, it'll probably be good enough for them. 

 

To me, except for the New New York episode, Chris's acting in his reconciliation scenes was phoned in. Or, not resolved as I think it was meant to come across as, in part due to his acting. 

 

Honestly, my guess is that we're still supposed to be rooting for Klaine, and there are many reasons the relationship is unrootable, from Kurt and Blaine's POVs. A part of that is Chris, 90% of the time, seeming like he wants to GTFO of the relationship. As I think I said before, even when the writers wrote some fucked up stuff for Finchel, I still believed they cared about each other. I think the only thing Ryan cares about at this point with them though is getting fangirls to react. 

[caracas1914]

A part of that is Chris, 90% of the time, seeming like he wants to GTFO of the relationship.

 

 

I think you meant Kurt.  

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[caracas1914]

I doubt he was firmly talked to, because of laziness on their parts, which is probably why Chord and Darren's mediocrity continues. Glee's known for shooting longer than most shows, even when things are going right, so they probably don't have time for anyone in the cast do to a lot of different takes. As long as it's passable, it'll probably be good enough for them.

 

This I agree with.  

 

The show runners/writers don't give a shit about any of the acting. Which makes complete sense when you connect that to their SL's where  they clearly don't  give a rat's ass to narrative coherence or character consistency with their actions/motivations even within an episode. 

 

The fact that they have Blane start fucking Karofsky because the prior history means absolutely nothing that he threatened Blaine's ex and soon to be again eternal forever soul mate.   (I think one "problem" with Chris is he actually follows the fucking storylines as far as his character's motivations...LOL)  The fact that they had Rachel's burning desire for close to five years to be a star on Broadway, to the point of giving up her NYADA schooling, only to get bored within a  month and throw it all away, discarding years of characterization,  that is some awe-inspiring, jaw breaking  "who gives a fuck" writing.

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

 

I think one "problem" with Chris is he actually follows the fucking storylines as far as his character's motivations...LOL)

Same. And as you said, how S6 will start is a pretty strong indication that he's really acting where the writers were taking his character and the Klaine relationship. I don't for a moment imagine that the sequence of events is reversed - the writers following Chris's acting which doesn't have any basis in the script and direction. Would we have the Blaine cheating SL or his NY antics if the writers were following how Darren acted "in love"? The notion that Chris wields this sort of power over the narrative is preposterous.  

 

The other "problem" with Chris some  people (in general) have is that he's not playing touchy-feely and puppy dog eyes that often. This easily translates into "not in love". I think that's why New New York is mentioned here as the only time Kurt seemed in love for the NY arc. I've seen people think he should've played the puppy dog eyes in love in the final scene of the Tested fight, and the pigeon scene. This tells me they have an entirely different take on what the character was feeling in these scenes. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

I fully expect the following in Season 6 per Spoilers.

Darren Criss as Blaine doing puppy eyed looks of love with the ex bully Karofsky.

And then the following:

Darren Criss as Blaine doing puppy eyed looks of love a couple of episodes later as he marries Kurt, the purported love of his life.

I fully expect Chris as Kurt to do the following:

Show in his acting that there is some reservations/hesitancy in Kurt with the whole fucked up 3rd or 4th Klaine reconciliation and eventual spur of the movement wedding. I still expect to see a glimmer of "help me" and " get me the hell out if here" in his ACTING per Kurt as his own fucking father who once railed against young teenage marriages literally officiates the damn ceremony.

I think it's a legitimate debate which actor has the more consistent characterization and care for his characters motivations. One may not agree with Chris' choices but considering what they apparently have lined up for the characters its IMO as credible choice as any. Again, I don't think Chris works against the script but is (vainly, alas) trying to make some sense of how Kurt would do several 180 character turns.

The script has Kurt breakup with Blaine because they can't stop arguing see Blaine hook up with his ex bully , not only get fucked by Karofsky and move in with him but then still claim Kurt is his eternal soulmate. The show has clearly shown that Klaine can't live together and yet are going to get married without any follow through.

It's like American Horror story without the cover of a reboot.

Do you play it "straight"?
Do you play it for " comedy"?
Do you play it that the character still has internal doubts and concerns till the very end?

Granted, it's still a WTF storyline and a lose/lose no matter how the actor plays it but I can certainly see why Chris would make the choices he does.

In all fairness, at this point I think it's defensible how Darren plays the character of Blaine as he does, because what else can he do with how Blaine is written? Darren must read the script and also say "in all that is holy, WTF?" and gave up completely trying to make any internal sense of Blaine's twists and turns. Poor Blaine has had several personality transplants since he was introduced in Season 2. Since Darren has limitations as an actor I certainly don't blame him for going hog wild as in love with the each guy the writers have Blaine lusting for because there isn't much else he can do.

They are still better off than Chord who is in his 6th or 7th true love romance and has to try to sell it every time.

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

 

 

I fully expect Chris as Kurt to do the following:

Show in his acting that there is some reservations/hesitancy in Kurt with the whole fucked up 3rd or 4th Klaine reconciliation and eventual spur of the movement wedding. I still expect to see a glimmer of "help me" and " get me the hell out if here" in his ACTING per Kurt as his own fucking father who once railed against young teenage marriages literally officiates the damn ceremony.

There is a precedent for how he may play

his wedding

- the scene at Dalton of Kurt accepting the proposal, and it seems very likely that Kurt will 

propose to Blaine

 this time around. 

And I also think Chris as an actor doesn't have the same misgivings about 

Blaine dating Karofsky

as us, he likes playing the drama. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[Glorfindel]

No, I don't think Chris has the clout. I think Glee THOUGHT all of the stuff in the season 5 was a lot more fluffy than the non-Klaine fandom took it, but the rest of us saw Kurt looked miserable. Hence, the stuff in the beginning of season 6 (plus their terrible ideas, of course).

Klaine possibly not being as fluffy as Glee might have thought they were when they wrote their storylines (as I don't think 'fluffiness' was what Glee was aiming at with Klaine, more 'realistic' storylines for a couple, and for RIB that only means silly fights, lies and stupid triangles), and even Kurt looking miserable as a result, should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the writers, not the actors.

If Chris had anything to do with that because of his acting (which I still think was on point and accurate for the situations his character was in), it's maybe 1% part of the 'problem', whereas the shitty storylines and dialogue make up the other 99%.

No, scrap that: I think that if Chris can partly be held accountable for Klaine not looking lovey dovey, then a few procent of that 'blame' go to Darren as well, because of his OTT and one-note acting of Blaine. It's hard to sympathise with a character and the struggles in his relationship when he looks like a psychotic serial killer as he shouts in a friend of Kurt's face to "back off", or when the tone in his voice as he talks about Kurt in his voice-over is full of disdain, even loathing. And to me those puppy eyes Darren does so 'well' according to his fans only makes Blaine come across even more clingy and needy than the writers probably intended.

 

But even when you, for argument's sake, count in some influence Chris' acting and/or Darren's acting had on Klaine's credibility (or lack thereof) in season 5, there's still no denying that almost all of the blame of what shaped that trainwreck of a relationship is still on the writers. Chris and Darren are not responsible for what their characters say and do on the show.

The writers were the ones who made Blaine cheat with a random, fall in love with Sam while pining over Kurt, had him arrange most of his classes to be with Kurt, trying to fatten up Kurt because Blaine didn't want his partner to be better/stronger than him, and lying to him about June. (and oh boy, that list only scrapes the bottom of the barrel). They were also the ones who had Kurt protest Blaine changing things in "my home", had Kurt calling Blaine a "psycho", and made Kurt voice his doubts about his relationship several times to different people (like Burt and Elliot). The doubts and reserves that Kurt had in his relationship and which Chris put in his acting, especially in season 5 (like at the proposal, but it was already there as early as 3x16 when Kurt talked to Burt as he was putting post-its on his things in his bedroom) and what Chris now gets 'blamed' for, especially by a certain part of the fandom, had its roots firmly in the scripts: Chris didn't just pluck that out of thin air.

The writers wrote bad conflicts for Klaine all throughout season 5, so even if they thought Chris' (or Darren's) acting influenced Klaine's dynamic negatively at that time they still kept writing those horrible fights for them right till the very last episode of the season, without giving them more 'fluffiness' in the script instead to counterbalance that negativity Chris supposedly put in. I doubt they'll suddenly change that for season 6.

 

Furthermore, I don't believe the fandom's opinion on Klaine influenced the writers at all. The (Klaine) fandom may think they're powerful and large in numbers but they're really not and their influence on the writer/producers of a show in its last season dumped in the death slot is practically zero. So I really don't think that the writers after season 5 suddenly got very concerned about what the fans thought about Klaine, specificly because of Chris' acting(?!) and not their own shitty writing, and therefore decided that Klaine needed 'fixing' in season 6.

Because if so, what better way to fix things and make clear that 2 people are soulmates and absolutely meant for each other than to have them break up again over the same unresolved issues, have 1 of them shacking up with the other's ex-bully, and then letting them get married only a few weeks later without solving even a fraction of those issues.

To me that simply looks like more of the same stupid shit they did in seasons 4 and 5.

 

Honestly, my guess is that we're still supposed to be rooting for Klaine, and there are many reasons the relationship is unrootable, from Kurt and Blaine's POVs. A part of that is Chris, 90% of the time, seeming like he wants to GTFO of the relationship. As I think I said before, even when the writers wrote some fucked up stuff for Finchel, I still believed they cared about each other. I think the only thing Ryan cares about at this point with them though is getting fangirls to react.

Yes, I think for a lot of people watching (not me, btw) Finchel was still believable because Lea and Cory salvaged a lot. But even though Finchel had a lot of horrible writing as well, neither of them cheated with full-on sex with a facebook random on the other, made a puppet and had it apologize for their own cheating, or tried to deliberately sabotage the other person's health to make them weaker then them. They also never were pitted directly against one another when it comes to e.g. career opportunities. And I hate to say this, but who knows how they would have screwed up Finchel even more (and probably worse than Klaine) if Cory hadn't died and Finchel ended?

 

Another, even bigger difference between Finchel and Klaine is that Finchel actually got a lot more screentime to talk and resolve their issues, and also to have 'good times' in their relationship, if only because they were allowed to act like a couple on screen, like sitting together in Glee club, touching eachother constantly, and sharing a lot of hugs and kisses. I don't think we can underestimate the importance and influence of that extra exposure when you compare these 2 couples.

And if you really want to bring the actors into this equation: yes, Lea and Cory had great chemistry together, whereas I personally never saw that between Chris and Darren, but more importantly, and saying it bluntly now: Finchel consisted of 2 good actors, while Klaine only has 1.

 

(I think one "problem" with Chris is he actually follows the fucking storylines as far as his character's motivations...LOL)

Yup, and if what happens in season 6 is indeed the result of his acting choices (which I don't believe for even 1 second) so the Glee writers and/or the fandom started seeing Klaine with different eyes, then it means that Chris basically held up a mirror to RIB's faces and let them see what they themselves did to Klaine (and Kurt in the process) in solid canon, by their own writing.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Glorfindel

[camussie]

I don't think Chris is making an acting choice to show Kurt as bored and disinterested in every other character. I think Chris himself is bored and disinterested in glee and that is coming across in his performance in almost every scene not just kurt/Blaine scenes. I felt his acting was even flat in odnt. He isn't the first actor to become complacent dying show and he won't be the last.

The problem with this debate is that there is an assumption this is all about how Chris plays kurt/Blaine scenes and for me that isn't even where I have most noticed it.

Edited December 27, 2014 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

The problem with this debate is that there is an assumption this is all about how Chris plays kurt/Blaine scenes and for me that isn't even where I have most noticed it.

I understand your POV (even though I don't agree with it), and we have been discussing Chris' acting in general here too, like the Burt-Kurt hospital scene, but as far as I can tell when I'm looking at the fandom online most people who say that Chris was 'off' in his acting in season 5 are indeed talking specifically about the Klaine scenes.

And I don't think I'm wrong when I say that those complaints mainly come from 1 particular fandom, and have imo very little to do with how they estimate Chris' acting abilities in general.

 

They think Chris was not acting properly in season 5 simply because they don't like how Kurt is not giving Blaine heart eyes 100% of the time (like Darren does), because who could not be totally smitten with buttercup Blaine 24/7, and also because they are frustrated with Klaine's storylines overall, and somehow that's all Chris' fault (and never Darren's, which clearly shows their agenda).

Even the past day in this thread it has been suggested that Chris is directly to blame for the asinine Klaine spoilers we have for season 6.

 

I agree it muddles the discussion if you want to talk about all of Chris' acting in season 5, but on the other hand the Klaine scenes are a big part of why this discussion is so active/continuous in the overal fandom anyway.

So for some who are arguing about Chris' acting (again, not necessarily here, but their opinions/complaints do have some impact on this discussion here also) this is not so much about Chris being a good actor, a bad actor, a stubborn actor, or a checked-out and bored actor in season 5, but more about how Chris isn't acting the way they want him to.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Glorfindel

[fakeempress]

 

I don't think Chris is making an acting choice to show Kurt as bored and disinterested in every other character. I think Chris himself is bored and disinterested in glee and that is coming across in his performance in almost every scene not just kurt/Blaine scenes. I felt his act was even flat in odnt. He isn't the first actor to not give his performance his all on a dying show and he won't be the last.

See, there is this problem when you say Chris was bored and disinterested in ODNT because he was stuck on a dying show,  and this boredom and disinterestedness is the reason why his performance falls flat in that episode. Unless he lied through his teeth, and continued to lie into the summer when he continued to talk about the great time he had while doing this episode and working with June Squibb et al., - there is no chance he was factually bored in ODNT. That's why some of us think it's something like acting choices, interference from the storylines and the writing that comes across to some as bored and disinterested, at least as far as this episode is concerned. 

 

In short, the problem for me is stating Chris was bored as a fact, and that this fact is the result of him seeing Glee as a dying show he can't wait to get out of. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

I

In short, the problem for me is stating Chris was bored as a fact, and that this fact is a result of him seeing Glee as a dying show he can't wait to get out of.

 

Yes, because the inference is that even in an episode he wrote he can't muster the enthusiasm to try to do  his best effort on the acting.   That seems like the most counterproductive, self destructive thing an actor/writer could do in a show, "dying" or not yet it's casually thrown out about Chris  like his work ethic is suspect. If his acting to support his writing  falls flat flat in the eyes of some, fair enough,but  adding that it's evidence he doesn't give a flying fig.for anything about Glee is carrying projection a bit far for my taste.

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

FWIW, I like Chris, dislike Darren and despise Klaine, and I thought Chris was off in some of the Kurt/Blaine scenes. It's not only one part of the fandom who holds this opinion.

[camussie]

Well either his acting has been off because Glee is a dying show that he is smart enough to want to be off or he simply lost interest in acting altogether because before last season I would say he appeared engaged 99.9% of the time while the second half of last season to me he seemed disengaged most of the time.  Still whatever the reason is my point stands that I feel Chris seemed complacent in most of his scenes in the second half of season 5.  

As for odnt especially he probably enjoyed working with June Squibb but that doesn't change my opinion that most of his acting in that episode came across as though Chris were reading off a cue card.

 

If his acting to support his writing  falls flat flat in the eyes of some, fair enough,but  adding that it's evidence he doesn't give a flying fig.for anything about Glee is carrying projection a bit far for my taste.

 

 

Likewise people saying every little hand gesture and voice inflection is evidence of Chris or any actor having a deep understanding of the material and playing it as bored and disinterested because that is what the character should be is carrying the justifcations a bit too far for my tastes.

 

In the end this is all opinion and conjecture and none of us know for sure.  

 

ETA:  Perfect stated "Phoenix Rising"

 

I don't blame him for feeling that way, as I know if I was stuck on glee trying would be hard for me to do. I like Chris, and I think only recently he's become complacent. I generally think he's hard working, when he still has passion for a project. I don't hate him for this, and it's fine if anyone disagrees

 

Edited December 28, 2014 by camussie

[phoenixrising]

I feel like what I'm actually trying to say is getting severely misconstrued.

Yes, ultimately, the writers are to blame for everyone's messy story lines. However, sometimes I can believe moments when the acting is believable. Chris acting like Kurt cares about Blaine, 90% of the time, doesn't happen for me. It's not a matter of puppy dog eyes versus not, so much as the fact that he regularly seems disinterested. The character is who I am referring to, which I think comes from actor's own disinterest. I don't think he's purposefully is conspiring against Klaine, but I think his real feelings about the relationship come through, which makes their relationship harder for me to believe than some of the other poorly written relationships. I agree there's other ways to communicate that (for example, his work in new New York), but I personally haven't seen it. I agree that Darren's acting also impacts my distain for the relationship, and while I place the blame ultimately on the writers, Chris also adds to my problems with it.

Do I generally think he's a bad actor? No. I enjoyed a lot of his season 1-3 work. I think he probably feels defeated by what the writers have done with Kurt, and is resigned to the role he has to play. I don't blame him for feeling that way, as I know if I was stuck on glee trying would be hard for me to do. I like Chris, and I think only recently he's become complacent. I generally think he's hard working, when he still has passion for a project. I don't hate him for this, and it's fine if anyone disagrees, but I am frustrated that words and assumptions are being made about my opinions.

I'll also echo that I'm not biased towards Darren. I don't think he's the worst actor on glee, and he has his moments, but he's not epic. My opinions on one person aren't really connected to my opinion's on anyone else. Even though I'm not a Darren fan, I do get frustrated that people totally blame his acting or character for everything going downhill. He contributes, but ultimately, the writers are the problem.

[Glorfindel]

FWIW, I like Chris, dislike Darren and despise Klaine, and I thought Chris was off in some of the Kurt/Blaine scenes. It's not only one part of the fandom who holds this opinion.

True, and I never disputed that. Hence the words "mainly", "most" and "some" in my previous post.

 

Heck, even I thought Chris was off in a Klaine scene in season 5 (and I'd tell you which one if I'd remembered which episode it was in, but I usually try to forget Klaine scenes as soon as possible), and also a few others (mainly some of the group scenes). Everyone has on and off days, Chris is no exception.

 

But there's a difference between thinking Chris was off in some of the Klaine scenes, even in him being off in your opinion in most of his scenes, Klaine or otherwise, because he supposedly is bored and "over it" or even because you think he's just not a very good actor, which are opinions based on estimations of his acting and work ethics, and not liking his acting choices because you ("you" as in talking about this particular fandom) wanted him to do something else and act Kurt more blindly in love with Blaine (which was possibly not even in the script or what the director wanted).

Edited December 27, 2014 by Glorfindel

[camussie]

One other thing

 

Maybe, just maybe, the writers could be held accountable for the shitty way they make the actors try make sense of convoluted and contradictory SL's as far as acting choices.

 

 

Seems to me that most of us have railed at the writers time and again for their crud writing.  To restate again they are horrible writers who can't sustain characterizations and story over multiple seasons.  That does't mean the actors shouldn't be critiqued as well.  For example Chord has always had the screen presence of a paper bag, Darren's mugging has always been grating, Amber was pretty bad at dramatic scenes in season 1, and yes I feel Chris's acting came across as he had become complacent in season 5.  

[fakeempress]

 

Well either his acting has been off because Glee is a dying show that he is smart enough to want to be off or he simply lost interest in acting altogether because before last season I would say he appeared engaged 99.9%.

I can get if you say you didn't like how he acted, or that he didn't seem as focused on his scenes as before. Things like that I get, and I said before I get that no actor can be 100% on all the time, unless they are DDL .But I can't get what you say here at all. Seems you've determined that he is factually bored because Glee's a dying show so he can't muster any interest in his acting for it any more, and extrapolate all the rest from that. I mean, to say he lost interest in acting altogether, and that this or boredom must be the reason is mind-boggling to me - because no one ever heard of actors being tired, distracted by other projects, etc. and things like that are totally out of the question here. 

 

Chris acting like Kurt cares about Blaine, 90% of the time, doesn't happen for me. It's not a matter of puppy dog eyes versus not, so much as the fact that he regularly seems disinterested. The character is who I am referring to, which I think comes from actor's own disinterest. I don't think he's purposefully is conspiring against Klaine, but I think his real feelings about the relationship come through, which makes their relationship harder for me to believe than some of the other poorly written relationships. I agree there's other ways to communicate that (for example, his work in new New York), but I personally haven't seen it.

Chris is on record that he likes it when he gets to play drama and conflict in that relationship. Since people who see problems with his acting routinely reference seasons or parts of as the case in S5 when the Klaine storyline was basically conflict and / or adversarial relationship from pitting the characters one against the other, I'm doubtful it's all because he is disinterested or bored /  checked out. Atm, I'm curious if that's going to be impression in S6 as well. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[phoenixrising]

Chris is on record that he likes it when he gets to play drama and conflict in that relationship. Since people who see problems with his acting routinely reference seasons or parts of as the case in S5 when the Klaine storyline was basically conflict and / or adversarial relationship from pitting the characters one against the other, I'm doubtful it's all because he is disinterested or bored /  checked out. Atm, I'm curious if that's going to be impression in S6 as well.

I did buy the conflict stuff more. My problem was whenever they made up. It never seemed genuine on Kurt's part, and that's part of why the relationship doesn't work? Their bad moments are memorable and feel real, but their "good" moments feel forced. Now, on a smarter show, this would leave towards them breaking up (and I would cheer because, to be clear, I don't think blaine should be forgiven in those moments, especially tested). But glee isn't that smart, so we get a hot mess.

Off of Klaine, I will say I did think Chris seemed more engaged outside of klaine, including odnt. It didn't blow me away though. But I also think a lot of that has been what he's been given to work with, and the best stuff he gets tend to feel like a variation of something that was already done better, and trying to top earlier better moments is hard.

[camussie]

I mean, to say he lost interest in acting altogether, and that this or boredom must be the reason is mind-boggling to me - because no one ever heard of actors being tired, distracted by other projects, etc. and things like that are totally out of the question here.

 

 

To me these are the same things by another name.  He is tired of Glee thus he is disengaged from it.  He is distracted by other projects because he knows Glee is a dying show and is ready to move on from it and therefore he is focusing his efforts on other work.  My point is I feel his acting in the second half of last season was indicative of someone ready to move on from this train wreck.  

Edited December 27, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

I didn't mean tired of Glee, but tired because he has more on his plate than before. And I don't get yet again the correlation he may be distracted by other projects = Glee is a dying show not worth his efforts. Distracted I mean as spreading himself thinner than when he was only on Glee, it's not unheard of when people juggle a few things at the same time that their focus may be split, hence their acting or other work may seem wanting. I don't have a problem with that perception. This is said about Ryan Murphy all the time. But this is one thing, while saying as you do that the reason Chris took on concurrent projects is because he can't bother about Glee any more is a huge projection, and borders on nonsensical, especially when you drag in this the episode he wrote and had huge enthusiasm for.

Edited December 28, 2014 by fakeempress

[Glorfindel]

If Chris' acting has become complacent and if he has indeed checked out and is totally bored (not saying he is not over Glee to some degree, because I think most of the cast is) wouldn't it be much easier for him to just throw the towel in the ring, especially when it comes to Klaine, and simply do what he's expected to do (if Kurt being obviously madly in love with Blaine is indeed what the writers want), including the heart eyes?

Being checked out and bored also means not wanting to put any extra effort in anymore.

 

Yet one of the biggest complaints towards his acting in season 5 has been that he deliberately plays Kurt reserved and sobered up from the romantic teenage dream as far back as when Blaine's cheated in season 4 and just stubbornly won't let go of the darker history Klaine had over the past 2 seasons, when according to some speculation the Glee writers maybe (big maybe imo) wanted Klaine more 'fluffy'.

Why would Chris deliberately (again: deliberate means more effort) go against what they wanted of him, hanging on to his old characterisation, if he just as easily could do as Darren does: act the scenes as he gets them, taking them at face value and forget about what happened last week, let alone last season.

 

 

Another thing: I agree that at times Kurt (Kurt, not Chris) seemed over it in season 5, checked out if you will, in Klaine scenes, but also in scenes with e.g. Rachel and the Burt hospital scene that was mentioned before. But didn't the character Kurt have ample reasons to feel that way?

His stepbrother died (right after his dad was cured of cancer); Blaine was.....well...Blaine, so being in a relationship with him was not really rainbows and unicorn farts all the time; Sam was couch-surfing in the loft for months; Rachel was either playing the Funny Girl diva or fighting with everyone, including calling Kurt a traitor in one episode and a coward in another but expecting him to come to her aid at the blink of an eye nonetheless; Santana was not doing much either to bring harmony to the loft and kept insulting Kurt for being effeminat; he lost a possible chance at a career start to his fiancé, being deemed "niche" once again; and last but not leasthe got (gay) bashed!

 

No wonder he was seriously over it by the end of the season, and maybe that is why he (as in KURT the character) sounded resigned to some when he had to yet again make up with Blaine and reassure him he loves him, or when he was yet again catering to diva Berry's wishes or being witness (or even taking the brunt of) one of her temper tantrums.

It even became kind of a running gag at some point, with Kurt rolling his eyes, facepalming, sighing, and snarking whenever Blaine was annoying  (like with the bubble soda machine) or Rachel was fighting with Santana and Mercedes (in '100'). Those scenes may show Kurt being over it, and Chris maybe even acted it that way deliberately, but not Chris, if only because inserting these physical reaction moments (even in the background) take effort and timing.

[fakeempress]

 

I think Glee THOUGHT all of the stuff in the season 5 was a lot more fluffy than the non-Klaine fandom took it, but the rest of us saw Kurt looked miserable. Hence, the stuff in the beginning of season 6 (plus their terrible ideas, of course).

As to the intent for fluffiness, here's what Brad Falchuk said at the 100th episode event (TV Line interview):

 

Brad Falchuk weighed in on the couple’s [Klaine] future at a media event celebrating the show’s 100th episode Monday night.

“You have them engaged and together, and it’s a different world,” Falchuk told TVLine at the event, which took place on the McKinley High auditorium set. “It can be both harder and easier to see a person every day.”

Falchuk added that while Klaine’s long-distance status in the early parts of Season 5 resulted in a certain “longing” between the characters as well as a “difficulty” in maintaining their closeness, “when you’re really on top of each other and really seeing each other and really get to smell each other every day, it’s a little different.”

[camussie]

. But this is one thing, while saying as you do that the reason Chris took on concurrent projects is because he can't bother about Glee any more is a huge projection, and borders on nonsensical, especially when you drag in this the episode he wrote and had huge enthusiasm for.

 

 

Well not once did I say it could be he took other projects because he is over Glee.  To be clear he has always had other things going while Glee was going on, in particular his writing which I am sure made him extremely busy.  It certainly would not be strange if as Glee was shutting down he became complacent there even while he became even more invested in his writing and post Glee acting career.  

 

Also i have long said I thought he was enthusiastic for getting to wear a different hat on Glee with ODNT - that of writer.  I saw that when he talked about the episode even as I was unimpressed with the actual writing in it because there was nothing new or different to me in that script.  I just don't think that enthusiasm of writing the episode translated over to his acting in the episode.  You may think that is nonsensical but then again I think it is nonsensical for people to tell me that i just don't understand the depth of Chris' genius at interpreting scripts and the reason he (NOT KURT) comes across as complacent is because he is infusing the writing with a throughline for Kurt's character that simply wouldn't exist if Chris didn't come across to me like he was reading a cue card for much of the second half of season 5.  

 

I also think it is strange that people her have never seen an actor become complacent as a show starts to wind down and have never made the connection between the two when I have several times before (hello the cast of Cheers and ER and Jennifer Aniston in the last season of Friends).

Edited December 28, 2014 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

I did buy the conflict stuff more. My problem was whenever they made up. It never seemed genuine on Kurt's part, and that's part of why the relationship doesn't work? Their bad moments are memorable and feel real, but their "good" moments feel forced. Now, on a smarter show, this would leave towards them breaking up (and I would cheer because, to be clear, I don't think blaine should be forgiven in those moments, especially tested). But glee isn't that smart, so we get a hot mess.

It's no wonder the Klaine make-up scenes feel forced when their conflicts are quite severe and sometimes even damaging, while in the end they never really get resolved or worked on. And although Blaine usually is portrayed as the one at fault (or having the most fault), often because he loves Kurt so much, it's usually Kurt who has to forgive and even comfort Blaine, after getting a very nasty blow himself (like finding out his fiancé lied to him, threatened his best male friend, tried to sabotage his health and liked Kurt better weaker, or substituted sex with him with jerking off behind his laptop.

So besides the writing of these make-up scenes simply being forced because the storylines and resolutions are terrible (and not once, but over and over again), wouldn't it be totally understandable if Kurt had some reservations the moment they made up again? Still doesn't mean he doesn't genuinely love Blaine and means it when they make up, just that he is still processing everything and needs some time to "forgive and forget".

 

So again: in my opinion Chris acted those scenes convincingly and totally in sync with his character's feelings.

 

But I don't think that the debaters on this thread, who have been going back and forth with one another for the past few days now, are going to agree on this anytime soon, as it's mostly opinion anyway. *shrugs*

 

Off of Klaine, I will say I did think Chris seemed more engaged outside of klaine, including odnt. It didn't blow me away though. But I also think a lot of that has been what he's been given to work with, and the best stuff he gets tend to feel like a variation of something that was already done better, and trying to top earlier better moments is hard.

This I totally agree with. Glee has been repeating storylines (and progressively worse) since season 3, arguably even season 2.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Glorfindel

[fakeempress]

 

Well not once did I say it could be he took other projects because he is over Glee.

This is  how I read :

 

 

He is distracted by other projects because he knows Glee is a dying show and is ready to move on from it.

because of the context you put it in. I grant you I may have misunderstood.

 

 

Also i have long said I thought he was enthusiastic for getting to wear a different hat on Glee with ODNT - that of writer.  I saw that when he talked about the episode even as I was unimpressed with the actual writing in it because there was nothing new or different to me in that script.  I just don't think that enthusiasm of writing the episode translated over to his acting in the episode.  You may think that is nonsensical but then again I think it is nonsensical for people to tell me that i just don't understand the depth of Chris' genius

 

Again, you directly attributed his acting in that episode to him being factually, not seemingly bored and disinterested:

 

I don't think Chris is making an acting choice to show Kurt as bored and disinterested in every other character. I think Chris himself is bored and disinterested in glee and that is coming across in his performance in almost every scene not just kurt/Blaine scenes. I felt his act was even flat in odnt.

Please understand, it's about you stating several times Chris is bored for an actual fact, when for a fact he wasn't in ODNT, and chances are he may not have been during the rest of the NY arc because he's said (as Darren has as well) quite a few times he likes to act specifically the more dramatic and conflict plots. Saying how his acting comes across to you is another thing, and that's a matter of preference and perception, it's subjective for each one of us. No one can force the other to like what they didn't.

 

There were comparisons with Finchel. In S4 post TBU I saw Lea playing Rachel as moved from Finn and not pining, or in love as before. So I happen to not see Finchel always conveying their undying love for each other. 

Edited December 28, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

Do I really need to put in my opinion before every sentence?  Obviously NONE of this is fact but rather my opinion.  The phrase "I think" is obviously NOT a statement of fact but rather an OPINION and in MY OPINION his acting in the last half of season 5 is indicative of someone who has become complacent about Glee.  

 

As for what the actors or anyone on any show says about the work I always take that with a grain of salt rather than assuming it is irrefutable fact.  Generally actors, directors, writers, etc are going to put a positive spin their work if asked about it in the press.  Do I think they all lie outright like Ryan Murphy?  Absolutely not but I think most are savvy enough to play up the positive and downplay or not even mention the negative.  Case in point - the positive for Chris in ODNT was that he got to use his writing talents for a Glee episode so he was really enthusiastic about that as we saw in the his promotion of that episode.  If he has become complacent about ACTING on Glee (as I THINK he has given his performance in the second half of season 5) there would be no reason to mention that when promoting ODNT.  

Edited December 28, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

You formulated the Chris is bored etc. in such a way that it was a fact for you.

either his acting has been off because Glee is a dying show that he is smart enough to want to be off or he simply lost interest in acting altogether

 

 

on ODNT for the last time:

 

Case in point - the positive for Chris in ODNT was that he got to use his writing talents for a Glee episode so he was really enthusiastic about that as we saw in the his promotion of that episode.  If he has become complacent about acting on Glee (as I THINK he has) there would be no reason to mention that when promoting ODNT.

 

I cannot see how he may be so enthusiastic only for writing ODNT - when he wrote Kurt in so many scenes so that he will have more to act than usual (if he's bored /checked out he could've given the focus to someone else and just lie back), raved that he got to fly in a harness and work alongside the older actors as an actor; specifically asked for actors to play off with whom he admired, and wrote a plot for Kurt so that he can ith older people - and Chris adores old people. You may perceive his acting as flat, wanting, complacent etc. and that's fine by me. But you cannot say he was bored as an actor in that episode as you indicated before, and wasn't bored only as a writer. This is nonsense to me. Sorry.  

 

You may decide to be cynical about every thing he's said and every interview he's ever given, but those who follow him know what he's been consistent about through the years. One of these things is veteran actors and old people in general. There is no fricking way he was bored acting because he was over Glee when he acted Kurt's story in ODNT. That's all there is to it.

Edited December 28, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

You may decide to be cynical about every thing he's said and every interview he's ever given, but those who follow him know what he's been consistent about through the years. One of these things is veteran actors and old people in general. There is no fricking way he was bored acting when he acted Kurt's story in ODNT. That's all there is to it.

 

 

You seem to think I am cynical about Chris specifically and i can assure you I am not.  I take everything people involved with a project, especially one that is a train-wreck like Glee, with a grain of salt.  So while it is your OPINION that is all there is too it it is my OPINION that it isn't.  As for why I THINK Chris was complacent in his acting in ODNT and have no compunction with saying so - simply because it wasn't just a one episode occurrence but rather a trend for most of the second half of last season in my OPINION.  

 

You formulated the Chris is bored several times, not only in the last quote, in such a way that it was a fact for you.

 

 

I just re-read all of me posts and I said "I think" or "to me" in every post.  How is that not stating an opinion?  Sure I believe it to be true (which i guess is fact to me much like you thinking Chris has given a wonderfully nuanced performance throughout Glee is fact to you) but i have never claimed it to be an irrefutable truth.  If I was doing that I would use statements like "That's all there is to it." or I would be telling people what they cannot say.

.  

Edited December 28, 2014 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

- "It was a lot of fun because I got to do things on the show that I've never been able to do before, but it was terrifying." -  gif
- "June Squibb, Tim Conway, and Billy Dee Williams...the best cast of Peter Pan in history! #OldDogNewTricks" - instagram
- "I must have ruined 100 takes laughing at Tim Conway. His comedic genius is legendary! #OldDogNewTricks" - instagram
- "Chris resisted his inner fanboy and never told Billy Dee Williams that he has numerous Lando Calrissian action figures at home. #inner fanboy" - Behind The Scenes
- (talking about June Squibb) "She's the best! I fell in love with her! Watch the episode and you will too!" - tweet / pic

- "One last pic before EST showtime! Clearly this episode was no fun at all! ;) #OldDogNewTricks #GleeAlong" - instagram
- "I didn’t have any say, but I was so excited that Brad [buecker] was directing it. He is one of my favorite directors we work with on Glee. I was so excited he got chosen. That was one of the reasons I was able to walk away from set when I didn’t have to be there because I knew it was in very good hands." - quote / pic
 
I really fail to see how this can be interpreted as Chris being checked out as an actor during the filming of 'Old Dog, New Tricks'.
Unless he was repeatedly lying through his teeth on his own instagram and twitter, or developed this odd split personality who was really excited and loved being with these actors and director because they were involved in the episode he wrote, but was bored stiff actually working with them.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Glorfindel

[tom87]

Hahaha this is funny stuff.  

[fakeempress]

 

much like you thinking Chris has given a wonderfully nuanced performance throughout Glee is fact to you

No,I don't. The concrete examples discussed was the  Bashed hospital scene and ODNT. I said NNY, Tested and ODNT were episodes where for me he did some of his best work for the season, for the material he had to play by script. 

 

 

ETA:

 

 

You seem to think I am cynical about Chris specifically and i can assure you I am not

I get doubting and taking interviews with grain of salt on principle, but when you follow a person more often, you know their track record, develop a feel for their style and manner, and can say with more certainty than on principle when they seem to equivocate, hide etc., and when they seem genuine. For instance, I'm not as fannish about some of the other actors on the show to the extent to follow their interviews, social media, etc., but when Sara2009 says something about Matt, I won't immediately doubt her without a solid reason, because I know I know next to nothing about him outside what he puts out on Glee or in concert while she does.  

Edited December 28, 2014 by fakeempress

[truthaboutluv]

Hahaha this is funny stuff.

Seriously...

 

I know something I said in another thread was brought over to this thread and this is the reason I avoided the discussion. I just think something like this is way too subjective to ever reach any kind of impasse. Some think Chris seemed disengaged or a little checked out (um, me...) and others don't. Fair enough. 

Edited December 29, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

Definitely surreal and admittedly in a ground hog day loop this discussion.

As a Chris fan myself it's lose/lose, It's defending Chris gives what some perceive as pisspoor performances while still caring as opposed to giving pisspoor performances because he doesn't care. LOL.

As we say in Spanish " de Guatemala a Guate Peor" . ;)