S01.E14: River Of Time

[squidprincess]

26 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Oh I definitely think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. They get to have their humorous physical comedy (falling over, temporary blindness, etc) and an excuse for not doing the sensible thing and going back to kill Savage before he became unstoppable. But they're also contradicting themselves by saying the further back you go the worse it is, so even Rip was affected by going to the old west, and yet Rip somehow DID manage to go all the way back to ancient Egypt.

To be fair, we don't know what state he was in when he got there.  Just that eventually he was able to go after Savage.  It may be that the time masters are more resistant to the effects in general (I wonder what exactly makes a Time Master in this universe.  Is it just a matter of education and training, and just happening to be one of the miscellaneous orphans they grab?  Or is there some other criteria?).  Maybe they'll even explain it.  (Probably not.  :-))

[Sakura12]

They've said that Savage is partially responsible for a lot of things that happened throughout history on their Earth. Wouldn't killing him before that happened change their entire world? Isn't that why Rip choose this group? They don't have any effect on the timeline. Savage obviously made a big dent and he can't just be erased from that timeline. 

So their best bet is to stop Malcolm from resurrecting him in 2016 or kill him in 2166 to end his reign of terror. They would not be able to save everyone anyway. 

Edited May 10, 2016 by Sakura12

[dmmetler]

I think my favorite part was that Rip was listening to Beethoven 7th while moping about having Jax fix the timeship and the resulting exposure. 

[KirkB]

Actually, Sakura12, you raise a good point. I was already thinking about the fact that killing Savage wouldn't necessarily save the world since his people and his network and technology have already been spread out and are in a position to continue functioning even without him leading them. But he has apparently had a bigger impact on history than we were initially led to believe, so if they go back too far and kill him too early they potentially screw up the world by allowing some other dictator or force that Savage removed from history to thrive. Doesn't that mean there is almost no winning here? If they remove Savage from history they risk changing it too much. If they leave him in power he takes over the world and slaughters most of the population. Talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Edited May 10, 2016 by KirkB

[Lii]

What if they just shot the Hawkpeople into the sun so they couldn't resurrect any more? Then Savage would run out of Hawkmagic and stop being immortal, and also the show would run out of Hawkpeople. 

[squidprincess]

I think that would just count as one death apiece anyway and they'd reincarnate again.

I actually do like Kendra, but I think the writers have really cheated her character in terms of growth and focus.  She's the character that should have the heaviest personal stake in the fight against Savage after Rip.  He keeps murdering her and her husband over generations.  She's the one who's supposed to kill him.  He murdered Carter again, just as she was starting to remember him.  Instead, they keep sidetracking her with the romance plot, which I guess is useful in terms of exploring the love/destiny dynamic that makes up the Hawks, but it completely truncates any of her emotional involvement in the main plot.

Say what you will about Rip, but they make his emotional stakes very clear from day one.  But where is Kendra's emotional involvement?  She should want Savage dead as much as he does.  Especially after he killed Carter.  Why is she treating this like a fun adventure?  Why wasn't her argument with Ray, when they left 1960 something like "Well, I want to hunt down the man who keeps murdering me and will definitely do it again if he's not stopped."  

(I'm also annoyed that both Kendra and the show seem to have forgotten about Boardman entirely.  He was her son.  Or her previous incarnation's anyway.  Why isn't she angrier at Mick or the Time Masters for what happened?)

It's really annoying to me, because I think if they'd allowed Kendra the emotional stakes in the Savage fight that she should have had, it would have far more impact when Carter 2.0 was unmasked, and when she chose not to kill Savage to save him.  Even in this past episode: they had her so busy in her little corner with Ray and Carter that we never even got to see her react to what happened with Jax, or take part in handing Savage over to the Time Masters.  You'd think that'd be something she'd want to see: considering it might mean that she and Carter could live to a ripe old age in this incarnation...

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So their best bet is to stop Malcolm from resurrecting him in 2016 or kill him in 2166 to end his reign of terror. They would not be able to save everyone anyway.

I think they should definitely kill him before the Apocalypse Virus (or whatever it was called) is unleashed.  Then make sure that neither father, son or whoever own the virus destroys it.

4 hours ago, squidprincess said:

[W]here is Kendra's emotional involvement?  She should want Savage dead as much as he does.  Especially after he killed Carter.  Why is she treating this like a fun adventure?  Why wasn't her argument with Ray, when they left 1960 something like "Well, I want to hunt down the man who keeps murdering me and will definitely do it again if he's not stopped." 

All of this post is excellent.  I'm not sure that Ms Renée has the "chops" to handle that kind of emotional depth, but it would have been nice to see her try.

[Trini]

Late to this, but I see all the idiocy has been noted.

So the Time Masters are evil? Now we now why they never bothered with Savage (or Barry Allen and his time travel shenanigans).

One positive note: I was impressed with the 'old man' makeup on Jax.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Trini
Because a missing negative adverb changes the whole meaning!!

[grannygeek]

On 5/6/2016 at 9:17 PM, kirinan said:

I am sick to death of Vandal Savage and ancient Egyptian flashbacks and Carter and this stupid, stupid romance

Their shenanigans are pure comic book fodder. I guess the disappointment comes from getting involved in the drama and then getting doused with the comic-book-iness of it all. Excuse me, giving away my age: the graphic-novel-iness of it all.

But yeah, Kirinan, sick to death, too. Stupid. stupid. stupid. And hokey. And corny.

Edited May 12, 2016 by grannygeek
forgot to say "hokey" & "corny"

[CWfan]

I want Kendra to die a slow, painful, death, after being tortured for months. And never be reborn. Then I need Ray to move on to a girl that is worth loving.

[Sakura12]

Season 1 started out okay, then got progressively worse as it went on. This episode showing that even more. Ray was stupid in this and whenever Kendra, Carter or Savage are in a scene I want to fast forward. Although I did like Sara telling Savage he'd feel at home in hell after seeing Season 4. 

The only good things in this episode was Martin giving up his chance to go home to save Jax and or course team Killer, Klepto and Pyro. I love seeing Sara's first time in the Captain's chair knowing she was meant for it more than Rip ever was. I know they tried to make up for his intentionally harming Jax by him saving Kendra but at this point saving Kendra is another point against him. Just like them saying Kendra saved them from Savage by suddenly being able to knock him out. She's the reason they were in danger in the first place. Like Foggy said on Daredevil "You don’t get to create danger and then protect us from that danger. That’s not heroic, that's insane."

They could really use Leonard's sixth sense of knowing when the mission was going to go sideways. It's too bad Wentworth wanted out. I miss him and his weird stilted way of talking. I liked seeing Nyssa again too.

[Starfish35]

Oh boy.  In which Ray is a supreme idiot, and Sara gets her first taste of being Captain.  

I am thoroughly ready for this season to be over at this point.  The Savage/Kendra/Carter/Ray storyline is becoming intolerable, and while I still hold to my belief that Kendra could have been a good character if not continually being dragged down by this storyline, it was becoming apparent at this point that it was never going to happen.  

Savage making his stand in the hallway like some deranged old west gunslinger.....🤦🏻‍♀️

I did like Martin sacrificing himself to send Jax back home to save his life.  I remembered that he did send Jax back, but I’d forgotten the reason.  Also like the continuing hints of the growing relationship between Sara and Snart, and Snart’s sixth sense that things were going wrong.  Like @Sakura12 said, it’s a shame Wentworth wanted out.   And seeing Felicity for a moment and the meeting/closure between Sara and Nyssa.  Katrina Law and Caity Lotz had fantastic chemistry.  

Edited November 18, 2019 by Starfish35