S04.E06: The Rat

[J-Man]

On 4/21/2016 at 0:01 PM, Umbelina said:

Now we all know, because this is a TV show, we aren't going to lose our lead actor. 

Tell that to the people who watch "Sleepy Hollow" or "Castle."

[SusanSunflower]

I wasn't sure if either Martha or Phillip would survive the episode (although I had been spoiled that they both did), still ... Gabriel would have off'd Martha in a heartbeat, if not for Phillip ... and I suspect Elizabeth would have happily off'd both of them (except for having to deal with Paige's demanding questions and with Henry missing Epcot again).  If I ever talked to my mother as Paige talks to Elizabeth ... well, I wouldn't.  Last time I spoke to her rudely, I was 5 or 6 -- never again ... Kids today!  

I'm glad that William and Phillip had those male-bonding soulful moments together ... Elizabeth is really pissed that Phillip "broke the rules" and got emotionally involved (and with a tenderness that's absent in their relationship) ... 

Clark used condoms in the past ... so unprotected sex is a new thing and both a break with the past and perhaps a symbol of commitment and hope for the future.  Poor Martha.  Poor Phillip.  Elizabeth will cry to Gabriel in private and he will play his surrogate daddy role and praise her good-soldiering. 

It is a funny double bind for both Phillip and Stan -- they both know what they "think" and believe -- and cannot safely detail all the particulars about why Stan has been suspecting Martha for "a while" and all the surveillance he and Aberholt have put in off-the-books.  Phillip cannot safely mention all of the not-quite-right things that make his suspect Martha is in imminent danger (we know in fact she is) but Phillip's credibility with both Elizabeth and Gabriel has been so damaged by his "doubts" and over-involvement.   Yeah, Gabriel would have disposed of Martha in a heart beat, Elizabeth even quicker ... Phillip done good. 

Edited June 6, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[Roseanna]

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 6:27 AM, Umbelina said:

If you were Martha what would you choose?  Moscow or Life in the Federal Penitentiary?  Or possible execution for treason, even though we certainly didn't do it often, it's on the table.

Martha's decision depends which motive is strongest to her. As an US citizen she should inform Clark as a spy, regardless of consequences to herself. As a woman in love she would do anything for him - as she has already shown by continueing to spy after knowing that Clark is not a US security official.    

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 6:33 AM, Tetraneutron said:

I have to say, though. All things considered she took the news that she was conned by a KGB agent and committed treason far more calmly than I would have. 

Because it wasn't really news to her. It was only now that she could ask the question whose answer she already knew inside her. And the most important thing to her is her belief that although Clark was ordered to the task, he really fell for her. 

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 8:25 AM, La Tortuga said:

When Martha was asking Philip who he works for, I couldn't help but shout at the TV, "Don't tell her the truth, you idiot!" But with Martha it's like he's reached a point where now that she knows a few secrets, he thinks he might as well tell her all of them. I can see how Philip's reached this point emotionally, and I can see why he would think it's better to tell her the secrets she can reasonably guess for herself (I'm a spy for an enemy nation) in order to protect the ones she can't (no we can't run away together, I already have a wife and kids). But even so, I wish he'd made up something else. 

I believe that Martha could have figured it out.  

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 9:00 AM, Tetraneutron said:

The fact that she thinks she's going to be near "Clark" is the only thing holding her to sanity. 

Yes.

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 10:43 AM, scartact said:

I'm incredibly impressed by how Weisberg & Fields and their writers have created such an explosive storyline out of the rapidly unraveling Martha operation, and just how much it impacts almost everyone at multiple levels, from the Jennings' work and marriage (and to an extent even their family) to Stan and Aderholt's continued investigation (obviously tugging the metaphorical noose around P&E's necks), and even Oleg & Tatiana at the Rezidentura discussing the possibility of exfiltrating Martha. It's funny to think back to season one and how the Martha storyline was always kind of a little uncomfortable and almost black comedy-ish, yet now it's been such a seminal and intense storyline this season. It's a real payoff to the show's slow burn.

Yes, it's amazing. It seemed to be such a selv-evident plot - but it wasn't anything like it. 

I didn't really feel any empathy towards Martha, until now. She has really shown to be much more than the love-hungry, duped woman. 

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 5:47 PM, scartact said:

I think this idea of the technicality of whether or not Philip is having an affair with Martha, especially because he revealed his face to her, is really interesting. It touches on a theme the show often broaches, the very thin separation of artifice and reality. It would be easy to interpret Philip's actions as coming from a place of love (or at the very least a strong emotional connection and empathy) for Martha, but it's also that if he can protect her, he can also continue to protect his family and Elizabeth, and their entire mission and operation and why they're in America in the first place. It just goes back to Philip saying in an earlier episode that it all matters; for him, it isn't just anyone thing, but it's so many different things and it just completely overwhelms him the more emotionally fraught he becomes and the more fragile his (and Elizabeth's) position is. I definitely think Philip's reactions reveal a kind of love for Martha and the quality of that love is absolutely what makes Elizabeth vexed and jealous.

There's a review somewhere that talks about how on some level when Philip chooses to stay with Martha and tells Elizabeth to go home, in a way it's like he chooses his duty over family, and I think that's another interesting interpretation of it. Of course, it isn't all that simple and there's an argument for him still choosing family over duty, but I just find a lot of these very intricate threads very interesting to pull at.

Very insightful.

On ‎23‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 6:25 AM, lark37 said:

Everyone is so concerned that Martha will die--I didn't realize that she had become so popular!  I like Martha, and I think Alison Wright is doing some tremendous acting, but I don't think that having Martha die will be any worse than Nina dying.  The only difference is that Nina had a much larger role in the first two seasons, but was sidelined for the last two. As an audience, our attachment to her had lessened by the time she was killed. Martha, is the opposite, in that her role has grown as the seasons progressed.  

Nina was executed for treason by unknown KGB guards, without any connection with any main protagonists. Her death influenced on Oleg and Stan but they didn't cause it (although Stan caused her being condemned as traitor as he refused to become a traitor) and who knows, it can have consequences to them.

Also, Nina made choices that decided her fate, first in the US by confessing her treason to Rezidentura and then with Anton by chosing to save her sould rather than her life. 

Instead, if Martha were murdered by KGB, it would be a damning effect to Phillip. He feels responsible for her and wants her live.  From the POV, Phillip and KGB, Martha has done anything to deserve death, on the contrary she deserves safety and respect.

Of course from the US POV, Martha is a traitor who deserves a severe punishment. Also, Stan and Gaad were personally betrayed by Martha.

Generally, KGB didn't kill all. If it had, nobody woudl have helped it.

And all protagonists can be killed in the show - that would lessen suspension.       

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I believe that Martha could have figured it out.  

I agree. Martha really only asked the question of who he worked for when she was ready to hear it--she already knew. I was surprised when she revealed that she even understood that he was Russian rather than an American working for the USSR. I'm sure Alison Wright always secretly had some idea of how much Martha was in denial. In the end when she wanted the truth Philip I think felt, among other things, that it would be disrespectful to keep lying to her. The only thing he seemed to think it was important to hold back was that he didn't really love her.

On 6/6/2017 at 1:08 AM, SusanSunflower said:

I'm glad that William and Phillip had those male-bonding soulful moments together ... Elizabeth is really pissed that Phillip "broke the rules" and got emotionally involved (and with a tenderness that's absent in their relationship) ... 

I think Philip and Elizabeth have a lot of tenderness in their relationship. Elizabeth doesn't seem pissed at Philip getting emotionally involved to me so much as insecure, not yet understanding Philip's feelings about Martha. She doesn't want to kill Martha because she knows it would upset Philip and imo wouldn't even be capable of killing Philip any more than she could kill Gregory. (I'd actually go further and say she'd be devastated by Philip's death at anyone's hand, including his own.)

On 6/6/2017 at 1:08 AM, SusanSunflower said:

Clark used condoms in the past ... so unprotected sex is a new thing and both a break with the past and perhaps a symbol of commitment and hope for the future.  

I think it was the opposite. Philip knows she's going away and couldn't see a way to refuse sex without it being too hurtful and upsetting her, so he took the risk.

Edited August 3, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Roseanna]

On ‎21‎.‎4‎.‎2016 at 10:01 PM, Umbelina said:

I've been saying it for a while now, Philip is out of control, he's constantly tweaking the nose of the KGB.  Lately, he's gone completely off the reservation, at least as far as the KGB in Moscow will probably see it.  Absolutely that little conversation with William about his wife/partner being removed is critical.  I can't even remember all the red flags (sorry) have blown in the breeze to bureaucrats back at Center.

 

1. His own partner reported him for possible sympathies to the enemy etc.
2. He's flat out said "no" to a few assignments.
3. He balked and refused when the KGB ordered them to bring Paige into the KGB.  Elizabeth was initially thrilled. 
4. He played a dangerous game of chicken, forcing the KGB to his will with the little Germany jaunt.
5. He refused to sleep with Kimmy even tho his handler ordered it as the safest way.
6. He revealed his true self to Martha, putting not only himself, but Gabe and Elizabeth in jeopardy.
7. He LIED to his handler about that, and to his partner, for weeks, further endangering them.
8. He told Martha they were KGB, when, at that point, she would have probably believed anything, for Martha, to hell with them!

 

I'm positive there are more I'm forgetting.  IF he had told Gabe that he'd just confessed to Martha that they were all KGB, would Gabe had still insisted Philip go take care of the bio-weapon?  Who knows?  Gabe didn't get the chance to make an informed decision there, because once again, his operations officer LIED TO HIM.

Flip the switch on this, picture a CIA/FBI agent doing any of these things.  Would they still be in the field?  No.  NO one is that valuable, no matter how well placed, no matter how expensive.  William's wife/partner wasn't, and neither is Philip.

Now we all know, because this is a TV show, we aren't going to lose our lead actor.  I think the threat of losing him will be part of the story here though, and it should be.  I have no idea how this show will eventually end, but today it occurred to me that it could end with Elizabeth in William's shoes here.  Still spying, but with Philip gone, probably dead, never to be heard from again. 

What ever Philip had done, he is a too valuable agent to lose. In important things he has always done what he has must (just like now fectching the rat). I think Gabriel has begun to undestand that Philip's ideas and protests have been mostly right. Sometimes the truth is the best way to manipulate.   

BTV, Carrie has done much worse in Homeland: not following orders and putting her lover above all else. Shows are such.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Roseanna

[Umbelina]

My point is it doesn't matter what Gabe sees or feels.  It matters what CENTER sees and feels.  Blow back on Gabe for not having better control over his agent is another worry for Gabe.

 

The show has moved on from that though.  It's hard to talk about past episodes. :)

Edited August 8, 2017 by Umbelina