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maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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phoenics

phoenics

From his review: "We also get some nifty flashbacks to Ichabod and his relationship with Betsy Ross. I like the actress of Betsy and she does a fine job with her small scenes - she needs more."

He's just chomping at the bit for a nuKatrina. I have always disliked this guy and his crappy reviews. More time for BR? NO! Geez that's the last thing they should do!

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Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

 

He's just chomping at the bit for a nuKatrina. I have always disliked this guy and his crappy reviews. More time for BR? NO! Geez that's the last thing they should do!

 

Spin off ass-kicking Betsy Ross into her own series for those that want Boobsy Romance. Seriously, they need to make a show for those that don't actually want to watch this one and keep fixating on minor characters they want to repurpose as stars. If Sleepy Hollow had stronger ratings, my assumption would be they were hoping to spin her off, given the flair they've infused into her introduction.

 

Like all reviews, I'll be leaving this one unread til after I've actually watched.

Edited by yuggapukka
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phoenics

phoenics

Here's another review... the showrunner is talking about shippers and actually saying he thinks the Ichabbie shippers (see context) will be happy this season.

I am not sure he understands that Ichabbie shippers want Ichabbie ROMANTICALLY, but as long as he plays it up, that's cool. Conflicting messages though - it feels like the actors are saying they aren't necessarily going for that, but then the showrunner says they are?

Get on the same page guys!!!

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/40424/sleepy-hollow-returns-with-a-female-villain-and-more-chemistry-for-ichabbie-shippers/?utm_source=twitter

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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

Here's another review... the showrunner is talking about shippers and actually saying he thinks the Ichabbie shippers (see context) will be happy this season.

I am not sure he understands that Ichabbie shippers want Ichabbie ROMANTICALLY, but as long as he plays it up, that's cool. Conflicting messages though - it feels like the actors are saying they aren't necessarily going for that, but then the showrunner says they are?

Get on the same page guys!!!

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/40424/sleepy-hollow-returns-with-a-female-villain-and-more-chemistry-for-ichabbie-shippers/?utm_source=twitter

 

The phrase he used before saying the shippers would be happy leads me to believe that he's saying they will play with the chemistry without necessarily going all the way with it.  As shows do.  "Will they/Won't they?" eventually turns into "when will they?".  I think what they will do this season is have them have those interactions that hint at deeper feelings being developed without any of the characters doing anything about it.

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

He's just chomping at the bit for a nuKatrina. I have always disliked this guy and his crappy reviews. More time for BR? NO! Geez that's the last thing they should do!

ITA. He always seemed so fixated on Katia Winters looks that it didn't actually matter what was going on in SH as long as he got to look at her. It wouldn't surprise me if he transfers his gaze to Sexy Pirate Betsy or Pandora. This is a quote of his from the comments:

 

I hope they have more flashbacks with Betsy as there weren't many in this episode and Pandora has me intrigued already. If I'm honest, I thought she was Katrina at first in the way she kind of looks and talks. 

 

Ugh.

 

The phrase he used before saying the shippers would be happy leads me to believe that he's saying they will play with the chemistry without necessarily going all the way with it.  As shows do.  "Will they/Won't they?" eventually turns into "when will they?".  I think what they will do this season is have them have those interactions that hint at deeper feelings being developed without any of the characters doing anything about it.

I hope the show either just goes with it or stops with all the teasing altogether. I'm tired of them trying to have it both ways. Stop throwing scraps at shippers and then showing that what they truly value is Crane romancing everyone else. Just stop. 

Edited by cynic
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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

I hope the show either just goes with it or stops with all the teasing altogether. I'm tired of them trying to have it both ways. Stop throwing scraps at shippers and then showing that what they truly value is Crane romancing everyone else. Just stop. 

 

Well, I don't think it's that straightforward.  I am not a shipper, never have been, don't think I'll ever be, but this is obviously not the first time I see romance on a TV show and perhaps precisely because I'm not a shipper, I can see the patterns more objectively.  Many shows do this for a reason, it works, it keeps people coming back and that's the sad reality of it.  Many shows find that after they get their couples together, the hole thing falls apart and they can't sustain the ratings.  Some of it is because the writers don't know how to write the couple together, but some of it is also because once the leads get together some people just lose interest in the story.

 

As a person with no dog in this fight (as in I'm neither rooting for Ichabbie nor rooting against it), I think if they went into a relationship right now it would be too soon, and I'd think, if that were to happen, that they were actually pandering to the shippers, instead of letting the relationship evolve organically.  I think that past seasons have shown us a good friendship and chemistry with Ichabod and Abbie, but I don't think there was the opportunity or a credible motive for them to become romantically involved.  We know there's a time jump and that Ichabod and Abbie have been apart for months.  If so, I'd expect their relationship to be awkward at first, then to slowly fall back into their friendship/partnership rhythm and then for romantic feelings to emerge. Otherwise, it would not feel earned.  After that, I don't think it's unreasonable for the characters to be hesitant about these feelings because they would be concerned about how acting on those feelings would impact their friendship and their shared mission, which is basically to save other people from a horrible, horrible future.

 

That's a story I would watch, even if I have a cold, indifferent, non-shipper heart :D

 

I think Betsy Ross as an old flame is different from Katrina, the wife, and the love of his life, as the character said in more than one occasion.  An old flame resurfacing can actually act as a catalyst for the characters to understand their feelings.  Who knows? Maybe it won't be that bad, after all.

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cynic

cynic

I don't need for the Ichabbie to have a romance right off the bat. I don't even necessarily ship them (though I did early in season 1 and easily could be persuaded to again at the merest provocation). I just hate the teases in interviews and the misleading promos, but then what shows up in the actual episodes is their true intention. If they want to slow burn an OTP, great! If they want to not focus on romance, fine, but then don't insert big outside romances either. Just please don't tell me one thing when it's obvious you're doing another. It's patronizing. 

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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

But, do we know what they are doing?  Isn't it a little too early to categorically affirm they are teasing falsely?

 

I've read all the reviews, some people who favor Ichabbie don't like BR, other people who favored Ichatrina, would like BR to do more.  It seems to me that no one in the shipping community (for and against Ichabbie) is actually happy with BR.  What that tells me is that the reviewers are interpreting the same facts according to their own personal glasses and that for me to make up my mind as to how bad/good the BR character is I'd have to see it with my own eyes.

 

Until then, I can't say if these statements by CC are false teasing or actually the truth.

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phoenics

phoenics

The phrase he used before saying the shippers would be happy leads me to believe that he's saying they will play with the chemistry without necessarily going all the way with it.  As shows do.  "Will they/Won't they?" eventually turns into "when will they?".  I think what they will do this season is have them have those interactions that hint at deeper feelings being developed without any of the characters doing anything about it.

This would be my hope - tease at it and then perhaps do something in S4 (hopefully we get a season 4).

But, do we know what they are doing?  Isn't it a little too early to categorically affirm they are teasing falsely?

 

I've read all the reviews, some people who favor Ichabbie don't like BR, other people who favored Ichatrina, would like BR to do more.  It seems to me that no one in the shipping community (for and against Ichabbie) is actually happy with BR.  What that tells me is that the reviewers are interpreting the same facts according to their own personal glasses and that for me to make up my mind as to how bad/good the BR character is I'd have to see it with my own eyes.

 

Until then, I can't say if these statements by CC are false teasing or actually the truth.

We are gonna have to see how it plays out over a few episodes to determine if they have any substance behind the teasing - or if it's just bait and then we get Ichaboss. I hate that the shipper name for that sounds good, lol.

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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

(edited)

LOL! Why can't it be Ichatsy? or Ichabet? or Beticha? Also, why is it Icha-something?  Couldn't it be Abbicha? Or Abbod? Or MillCra? Or CraMill?*

 

 

*("cha" pronounced "kah" in all of these)

 

ETA: LeftCap?

Edited by WearyTraveler
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cynic

cynic

Betabod?

 

It is an augury rhyme.  Apparently in really superstitious times the # of crows (or magpies) you see is a portent of good or evil.  There are a lot of variations but the rest of this one goes:

 

One for sorrow, two for mirth,
Three for a wedding, four for a birth,
Five for silver, six for gold,
Seven for a secret not to be told.
Eight for heaven, nine for hell,
And ten for the devil's own sel'.

 

The rhyme does feel very Sleepy Hollow-ish.

 

Oh wait! The season three poster has a bunch of crows in it. Sigh, but there are six and I don't see how gold really would tell us anything. Too bad there aren't seven. That would have been intriguing. I would have totally given them credit for matching the poster up with the rhyme instead of just using the rhyme as something witchy sounding. Hey, at least there weren't three or four though!

 

Three more days!

 

 

 

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Indi

Indi

But, do we know what they are doing?  Isn't it a little too early to categorically affirm they are teasing falsely?

 

No, because that's what they've been doing from the beginning and it's one of the worst aspects of the show if you ask me. They do it, because they know the Ichabbie shippers are keeping the show alive. Even Goffman and his writers' room in all their blind obsession with Katrina teased Ichabbie falsely.

 

I don't ship Ichabbie. It's too late for that, in my opinion. Their relationship was too damaged in the last season and a half. At this point I don't even believe a basic friendship between them. The "chemistry", the hugs, the looks have been used as shortcuts to keep them together, instead of actual good writing, where the male lead is accountable for his actions and has to make an effort and make amends. I don't buy that a character like Abbie has been presented would have tolerated Ichy's bullshit from day one and yet nothing ever happens. I must be great to have that lead male shield. So no, I don't want them to ever happen.

 

I don't want any more Ichy romances either, but the show has chosen to die on that hill, so Katrina, Betsy and whoever else they want to throw at him it is. In the meantime, Abbie is on the sidelines looking affectionately at him and having no romantic adventures of her own on screen. But hey, they hug every few episodes, don't despair!

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

(edited)

I don't think we can even know at this point if the underwear (camisole!) scene and the exchange about "partners" take place in the same episode never mind relative to each other since Abbie is wearing different clothes. Black tee in one scene, red button-up in the other. You do have a point though, that the use of those two scenes within the promo could make it look to a viewer as though they are meant to relate to each other even if they don't. The Walking Dead often does promos that intentionally misdirect and serve to wind viewers up as to what it all means.

 

The camisole scene is not in this Thursday's episode and has nothing to do with the scene in the Archives where Abbie, Jenny and Ichabod are talking about Betsy. Fox continues to try and shipper bait fans implying things between the Witnesses that turn out to be false once seen. I bet money the camisole won't be Abbie's when we see what ever episode it comes from.

Edited by Blackhoney
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phoenics

phoenics

I agree - but the camisole doesn't have to be Abbie's for it to still be a shippy moment. It's the teasing and banter that makes it that, imo. Not who owns the camisole.

Now, having it be Abbie's would be awesome, but it's not totally necessary.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

I like the cast photo and was wondering when it was going to be released. Fox waited until almost the very last minute to update their website for the press and to do any meaningful promotion for the show. Better late than never I guess. At any rate, I love that Abbie, Jenny and Ichabod are off to one side alone. That shows they are together and united outside of the others. I didn't pay attention to the folks on the other side of the photo. LOL

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phoenics

phoenics

I'm so shocked at the living together thing that I don't know what to do with myself.

I take back every negative thing I said. I'm shutting up and trusting the writers for at least 4 episodes.

I cannot believe it. Wow! So excited!

Too bad they haven't promoted the show enough!

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

(edited)

Obviously they're living together as friends, not as lovers or even crushes. But I love the implicit promise that they are the Dynamic Duo of this show, no matter how much others might want to play. As long as they come first with each other, I can live with it.

(Not that I'm not hoping for more than that down the road, though!)

Edited by Miss Dee
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Yolapukka

Yolapukka

Love the shenanigans. I'd rather be teased. I'd love to see that ship come in eventually but what I really want right now is the season one partnership and the crazy adventures those partners had. The disappointment will come if that's been lost, but I don't think it has. 

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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

As I've said before, I'd be thrilled with a female-centric Sleepy Hollow as long as Abbie is first and foremost in the eyes of both Ichabod and the show runners. But I find it really interesting that Fox is doubling-down on that when their show has reportedly skewed male in the past. Hopefully they'll gain female viewers without losing male ones.

And while Katrina is kept in that opening image of her waving her arms up like she's casting a spell - the scene at the very beginning, before the mist steals over Sleepy Hollow - thank God they took out the parts of her and Ichabod walking towards each other and stealing a kiss in the graveyard. They didn't even try to pretend the shadowy person was Betsy Ross.

Maybe the other two regulars (both men) will be added afterwards. We have no idea what kind of shoestring budget they may be working with. Or it could be plot-driven (like the credits for Deep Space 9's first show, and this *is* essentially a reboot), or maybe they didn't want to draw too much attention to Orlando not being there.

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phoenics

phoenics

This interview intrigues me. I really hope BR stays in flashbacks or if they bring her forward I hope she's a ghost or nothing corporeal and not someone Ivhabod will WANT to bring forward into the present.

That Cliffy makes a direct comparison between Abbie and SBR in terms of their partnership with Crane makes me wonder if SBR's point is to push Abbie and Crane closer together. Maybe that's not true but it sounds good.

Either SBR is the foil Cliffy needs to deepen Ichabbie and open the ship door, or she's Katrina 2.0 and Cliffy will make her come to the present.

I kinda feel like this is gonna be a season long arc, which is why she's a regular. As long as she stays in her lane we're good.

But I hope the point of her is to show why Ichabbie is better. This feels a bit more like Arrow.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

A couple of things I felt very gratified about when reading that interview is how often he brought his answers back to 'our witnessess.'  Even when the question was specifically about Ichabod he always contextualized it with both of them and them being Witnesses.  What a contrast to some Goffman interviews when every answer seemed to somehow circle back to 'The Katrina of it all."

 

Also, I love his answer about Joe.  Obviously as a viewer he saw the same thing a lot of the fans did re: the relationship potential between August Corbin's three 'kids' and I like that they decided to mine that specifically.

 

Very excited about the season.  God I hope it rebounds!

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

This interview intrigues me. I really hope BR stays in flashbacks or if they bring her forward I hope she's a ghost or nothing corporeal and not someone Ivhabod will WANT to bring forward into the present.

That Cliffy makes a direct comparison between Abbie and SBR in terms of their partnership with Crane makes me wonder if SBR's point is to push Abbie and Crane closer together. Maybe that's not true but it sounds good.

Either SBR is the foil Cliffy needs to deepen Ichabbie and open the ship door, or she's Katrina 2.0 and Cliffy will make her come to the present.

I kinda feel like this is gonna be a season long arc, which is why she's a regular. As long as she stays in her lane we're good.

But I hope the point of her is to show why Ichabbie is better. This feels a bit more like Arrow.

Clifton Campbell’s interview doesn’t fill me with relief at all. Mostly because of the part where he basically says in order to build up the Witnesses they must focus on building up outside characters?

LOL. Yeah, we’ve been there and done that.

 

Wrong Cliffy Cliff.

 

Supporting characters should be brought in to help the Witnesses fulfill their destiny of averting the apocalypse. By the way, we all know what OTHER character he is talking about. He said characterS but anyone who thinks this show will focus on, say Joe or Lance, is crazy. We know he can’t be talking about the villain either, because that would make no sense.

 

Why does Crane always need another person to work with outside of Abbie? This season he’s gonna have two partners according to everything I have read from showrunner Clifton Campbell and that just wreaks of what they tried to do last season. Betsy Ross is Hawley and Katrina rolled into one. There to once again make Ichabod and his connection to the apocalypse more important than Abbie’s.

 

I’m going into this new season with my eyes open. I’m not gonna be shipper baited with hugs, glances, camisoles or late night Netflix watching between the two Witnesses.

 

Mark Goffman also claimed things were all about the Witnesses but brought in Hawley and Katrina to mess with that dynamic. And likewise, Betsy is meant to do the same thing.

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Indi

Indi

Why does Crane always need another person to work with outside of Abbie? This season he’s gonna have two partners according to everything I have read from showrunner Clifton Campbell and that just wreaks of what they tried to do last season. Betsy Ross is Hawley and Katrina rolled into one. There to once again make Ichabod and his connection to the apocalypse more important than Abbie’s.

 

You know why. Sexy!Smart!Betsy is Katrina 2.0 and Katrina was always meant to be Ichy's other partner. That episode in S2, where the Cranes worked together was a trial for what was to come. They even described the Cranes as Mr. and Mrs. Hart. Is it just coincidence that Ichy and Sexy!Smart!Betsy have been described as Mr. and Mrs. Smith? Why doesn't Campbell commit to a definite answer about Sexy!Smart!Betsy coming to the present or not? Because he doesn't know it yet. If Sexy!Smart!Betsy is the success TPTB wanted Katrina to be, there is no way they'll keep her in the past.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

I too believe they are floating SBR to see how she is received by the GA. I'm also feeling pretty sure that they already have plans to bring her into the present through some spell that Pandora will probably cast. I mean I can see Pandora being a "regular" if she is this season's big bad. But not even Ben Franklin who played a BIG role in my mind with assisting Abbie and Crane was only provided a "recurring role", so why does SBR need to be a "regular"? I think once again Sleepy Hollow will get in its own way and destroy the good faith that they may build within the first couple of episodes. Fans will NOT sit by and continue to give the show their viewership if they feel another bait and switch is happening. The show is already going to have a struggle with it being up against Scandal and all.

 

Honestly, I really hope FOX will switch "Sleepy Hollow" to Tuesday nights at 9pm in the "Scream Queens" slot. "Scream Queens" is averaging less than 4M live viewers (FOX is trying to spin it with DVR viewing but NO the show is sucking right now). So move it (Scream Queens) to Thursday as let it fight for viewership against "Scandal" and "The Blacklist".

 

I'm hoping for a successful premiere with at least 6M viewers or higher I think that will prove to FOX that "Sleepy Hollow" still has a strong fanbase. I know I will be tuning in, Scandal can wait for another day.

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phoenics

phoenics

Clifton Campbell’s interview doesn’t fill me with relief at all. Mostly because of the part where he basically says in order to build up the Witnesses they must focus on building up outside characters?

LOL. Yeah, we’ve been there and done that.

 

Wrong Cliffy Cliff.

 

Supporting characters should be brought in to help the Witnesses fulfill their destiny of averting the apocalypse. By the way, we all know what OTHER character he is talking about. He said characterS but anyone who thinks this show will focus on, say Joe or Lance, is crazy. We know he can’t be talking about the villain either, because that would make no sense.

 

Why does Crane always need another person to work with outside of Abbie? This season he’s gonna have two partners according to everything I have read from showrunner Clifton Campbell and that just wreaks of what they tried to do last season. Betsy Ross is Hawley and Katrina rolled into one. There to once again make Ichabod and his connection to the apocalypse more important than Abbie’s.

 

I’m going into this new season with my eyes open. I’m not gonna be shipper baited with hugs, glances, camisoles or late night Netflix watching between the two Witnesses.

 

Mark Goffman also claimed things were all about the Witnesses but brought in Hawley and Katrina to mess with that dynamic. And likewise, Betsy is meant to do the same thing.

I just don't see it this way. I mean - I can see how you could - especially if you're feeling extra jaded, but with Cliffy's efforts to bring EVERY interview and press release back to how it impacts Ichabbie, I have more hope now than ever that things will be different this season.

And this: "Those moments, or those looks in between, are too much fun to play with, and I would say that’s about as far as we feel we need to go with that character." <--- This, from Cliffy makes me think that they aren't trying to have SBR take over the show.

Also, what I took his comments about bringing the other characters on to actually flesh out Abbie and Ichabod even more is that it's through interaction with others in the town that usually reveals more about Abbie and Ichabod anyway. Season 1 had that in spades and Season 2 lost that almost completely. I really thought Cliffy did right there... and hopefully that's what will play out onscreen

Clearly, Pandora being there is that she will release demons that target the witnesses personally. So you learn a LOT about them though what the demons reveal.

Additionally, I actually think SBR and her past with Ichabod is going to be MORE about illuminating his present partnership with Abbie and what that all means.

Like I said - best day ever.

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phoenics

phoenics

(edited)

Did anyone post this article yet from Variety?

Clifton actually says the words SLOW BURN in relation to Ichabbie.

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/sleepy-hollow-season-3-premiere-pandora-betsy-ross-bones-crossover-spoilers-1201607414/

 

Because we’re all rooting for Abbie and Crane to maintain the unique relationship that they have and enjoy seeing those little looks that they share with one another, we also feel like any version of a slow burn on that front needs to be complicated and we should complicated with interesting people who really fill out their lives, so Lance really does that for Abbie and has a very unique perspective on Crane and what Crane might mean to her, so it’s given us a lot of mileage to play.

Well, well, well...

Oh and this:

 

What were some of the primary issues you felt you needed to address, after hearing the fan reaction to season two?

Obviously there was a lot of backlash on how much time was spent on the Crane side with his family, just by design of how much time had to be spent developing those relationships from the past to make them play out — you sort of felt like you sidelined Abbie and her half of this equation, and I couldn’t really argue with that. So it felt like, first and foremost, we ought to rebalance the partnership and that we should, now that we’ve had a clean slate handed to us, really deep dive into Abbie’s story and Abbie’s family without going back to the tortured version that we all know from their childhood, and allow both Abbie and Crane to move forward.

My only issue with this is that they waited so late to do all of this promotion!!

Edited by phoenics
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DearEvette

DearEvette

(edited)

I was just coming to post that.  It seems like the links are coming fast and furious and each interview has something a little different to say.  I loved how he specifically addresses the Abby sideline and how he refers to S2 as the Henry/Katrina/Moloch era.  LOL.  I sense a little shade there.  Just a little.

 

ETA;  The Variety interview is probably my favorite of them so far.  Lots of good detail and a very balanced and detailed explanation of all the characters.

Edited by DearEvette
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