Season 4 Discussion

[kikismom]

When it began I liked the variety of characters; it seemed that characters actually had more complex personalities than they did later on. I liked the first season walkers; Morgan's late wife was was scary and sympathetic,( the walker later in the series, in the RV, also seemed to have some working memory of thinking as it looked around, and cocked it's head to listen). I was exasperated with the dumbness though. I understand people weren't prepared for a ZA, but that doesn't mean you lose any memory of facts you would have known before, and you wouldn't just lose common sense.  As SpaghettiTuesdays  said, even then, who would just pick up one or two things while you're in a building and not be grabbing everything that wasn't red-hot and nailed down. Don't say they didn't have time; Rick and Andrea stand at the jewelry counter jerking off about old times; I would have said 'we can talk and grab at the same time stupid, look for tools flashlights (yes they have them in retail stores) first-aid kits, bust out vending machines in the break room, anything while you're nattering on about birthday parties in childhood. I hated Rick just talking to Andrea while hundreds of walkers are massed at the windows...he just can't be so blase about it after only getting out of a coma and not knowing what the hell to do and not knowing what became of his family,

Season 2 Unlike many fans, I like the farm. Right when they're plotting on the map where to look for Sophia, and Maggie looks at her dad and Herschel very surreptitiously shakes his head no at her, something was up! I loved all the questions of TEOTWAKI ethics: would you think maybe it's better to let your sick/injured child slip away than live in this world? Do you take in strangers, how many, for how long? How could you have a baby, what would you tell that child why you let them be born into hell? Do you kill a Randall, let him go, make a decision dammit! Do you stop a suicide? On what grounds, because life isn't that bad? Season 2 is maligned because of people being on a farm (God forbid!) and all the talking. But the ethics/scruples was so much more than other shows have done. That said, the inconsistency really started to grate. The farm has 4 or 5 wells, number one is for the house, number two we use for the barn but you can drink it they're all good. So why are we bothering to get the zombie out of well Number 2? We must go into town for supplies or to get Herschel...let's tiptoe and peek in case there are walkers or bad guys--but first let's clop in on a horse to the front of the building, or park in front of the building we're going to be in and slam the car doors. Don't get me started with Rick in the final episode.

Season 3 Love beginning with no dialogue, just the view of weary starving people constantly on the run. Love the group unity taking over the prison. Loved the sequence with the prisoners and the group fighting walkers and Rick and Daryl layin down the new law of the land! (That's the Rick I like). Love New Herschel, love more Merle! love more Daryl dialogue, love even just too little more Morgan! Loved the development of Carl character! Hate the turn to cheesiness with Governer/Woodbury...heads in fishtanks? A black eyepatch? Whistling while he works? Like a Batman villain. A 1960's TV Batman! Hated hated hated it.

Season 4 Really back to developing the story, their situation, the crucial ripple affect of every decision. Oh no the Governor again? Loved the separate look at people we didn't know that well, although Glenn wasn't supposed to be one of the unfamiliar. Yeah we get that he and Maggie are true love. Other characters have been devoted to people, Rick/Lori/Shane, Carol to Sophia, Michonne/Andrea....didn't mean they had no other facets to their personality, and no other purpose. Loved sickness arc: it revealed more about people than fighting zombies did. On the other hand, it took four seasons for someone to make an attempt to pick a rendezvous place; and then--Maggie writing Glenn go to Terminus--it is only after the fact, after people have lost each other. Again. Sigh. Ending: how to get out of a boxcar? Good. Creepy Termites? Good. Being dumb enough to go to Terminus without wondering how any place could offer sanctuary to all (for miles)? how any place doesn't have walkers thick at the fences? Not good at all. But The Grove? Outstanding.

Edited April 16, 2014 by kikismom

[eejm]

Seeing the prison colony thrive as it did at the beginning of season 4 made me wonder about the group having the collective knowledge to keep the place running so smoothly.  At that point the prison had a large and thriving garden, rigged-up indoor plumbing, a good stock of supplies to keep everyone well and healthy, and people seemed happy and content.  My thought is that Hershel's knowledge in particular had a huge part in making this happen.  Besides providing medical know-how as a vet, he also knew a bazillion other things as a farmer - growing crops, fixing equipment, basic mechanics, etc.  After our group ditches Terminus, I'm assuming they'll want to find a similar place where they can set up and live for a long while.  But now that Hershel is gone, do you think they'll have the knowledge to do it?

[Jeezaloo]

But now that Hershel is gone, do you think they'll have the knowledge to do it?

I'm assuming elderly, one-legged Hershel didn't do all the work himself, and that the survivors - including his surviving daughters, with farming knowledge themselves? - learned enough from him to at least make a go of it on their own. I just think, as they head farther north into once-dense urban population areas now possibly glutted with massive unavoidable hoards of trundling corpses, that farming may not be number one on their honey-do list.

[ghoulina]

Yea, I think Hershel was the type to make sure he passed his knowledge on to other people. I'm sure he made sure they learned as they did it, he didn't just do it for them. I'm more worried about who is going to be the new Hershel in terms of morale. You can teach someone to farm, or run some pipe - but how can you teach someone to have that center that he had? The way he calmed everyone and always knew the right thing to say? His loss was so beyond tragic. 

[kj4ever]

I would really like to know how the Termites determine who joins them and who is dinner. I mean, surely they can't just take the meek and weak? They must need *some* fighters to defend the place and some spares to replace lost/killed people. I can't help but wonder if our gang's weapons sank them before they'd even started. Had they just walked in the front entrance, unarmed, would they have been welcomed? I mean, the Terminus sign did instruct that all weapons should be lowered, so how much of our group's entrance (hopped the fence, weapons up) affected their fate?

My hope is that if/when Carol turns up, they assume 'woman + baby = keep safe'. It would be interesting karma if Carol saving Judith is what saves Carol.

I'm guessing that how they react to the lunch special is how they determine where the people go.  The first thing they do is stick a plate of food in people's faces, and these are people that are probably starving so they aren't going to ask "is this chicken?"

 

Once the people eat they tell them what they just consumed.  The people that are sorta kinda ok with it become the termites, and the once that freak the fuck out are the wood.

 

I'm still wondering how Michonne knew her "lover" and his friend were high when it all went down.  At first I didn't hear her say she let them turn, so I was all like "what, were they walking around going Aaarrrgh Argh *giggle* *giggle* Aaaarrrgh."  Even if they were just bit, people go to that fever stage real quick like, so I don't know how she could tell unless they were sitting there burning up eating like beef jerky and potato chips.

 

Oh, and I don't think Andre got bit, I think they killed him so that he didn't have to grow up in this world.  The reason I think that is if you get in your wayback machine Michonne looked positively stunned and maybe a little bit sick when Merle told her and Andrea that everyone was infected.  Makes me wonder if there is a toddler Andre zombie walking around out there somewhere....

Edited August 3, 2014 by kj4ever

[tv echo]

I don't think this has been posted yet - but if it has, I apologize for posting it again...

 

The Walking Dead - "They're fucking with the wrong people" - UNCENSORED

[kj4ever]

My problem with season four is I didn't give a rat's ass about most of the new and mostly new characters we were seeing on the back half.  They just didn't develop Sasha enough, and she's been around since season 3.  She just seems like a bossy know-it-all robot.  Tyreese was developed, but not in a good way for me.  His anger management issues and then later his let's all forgive each other nature just don't jive.  When the outbreak in the cell block happened it still bugs the hell out of me that he just ran to his girlfriend and stood there while Rick, Daryl, Carol, and Glen were trying to save the people.  He just came across as a selfish, whiny bastard from the attack on Rick and Daryl to the idiotic way he acted while they were trying to get medicine for the people, including his SISTER.

 

I know TWD knows how to develop characters and make us care right from the beginning.  I loved Maggie and Michonne from the start.  I thought Herschel was kind of an A Hole, but I still wanted to know more about him.  Hell I was sad when Zach was killed and we only saw him for like a minute.  Add to the fact that the actor played the character that raped my beloved Veronica Mars and I still liked him, well that's saying something.  If Sasha or Bob died I'd be like "eh" and I'd probably cheer if Tyreese died.

 

I loved the book end episodes that were the season premier and finale.  The finale did want me to smack Herschel a bit, but that's mostly because every time he brings up "Carl shot that boy" pisses me off.  I still think Carl was in the right and Herschel's hanging on to the way things were was a grave injustice to Carl.  

 

Probably the thing I liked most about the whole season was how they highlighted the fact that zombies might be the least of their worries.  I know they had their fight with the Gov previously, but the inclusion of Joe and his gang?  Well what a wake up call to how the world world works in the ZA.  The sickness?  There are people that die from the flu now, so imagine what could happen without modern medicine.  Season 4 gave us the feeling that fences and walls cannot keep out every danger, whether it be walkers, humans, or sickness.

 

I really thought "A" was just brilliant.  I didn't understand at first why Rick was so worked up about taking a bite out of crime.  When Daryl said "Anybody would have done that" and Rick said "No, not that" I was just shaking my head thinking any Father would do that if his son was about to be raped.  After thinking about it awhile I realize that while every Father might do it, most would not even THINK about doing that to escape.  I think that's what Rick meant - that unless you were truly brutal and/or a monster you wouldn't think about biting out someone's jugular.

 

I cannot wait for Season 5!

Edited August 23, 2014 by kj4ever

[Too Late Kev]

When I saw Rick bite into the jugular, I thought, "He's pulled a Jack Bauer!" It would have been an even bigger moment if I hadn't seen it before on "24," but the emotional impact was still huge.

[Watcher0363]

I really thought "A" was just brilliant.  I didn't understand at first why Rick was so worked up about taking a bite out of crime.  When Daryl said "Anybody would have done that" and Rick said "No, not that" I was just shaking my head thinking any Father would do that if his son was about to be raped.  After thinking about it awhile I realize that while every Father might do it, most would not even THINK about doing that to escape.  I think that's what Rick meant - that unless you were truly brutal and/or a monster you wouldn't think about biting out someone's jugular.

 

I cannot wait for Season 5!

I think what Rick was so worked upped over was the way he killed the would be child rapist. He did not just kill him, but brutalized him long after he was dead. The attack on the rapist was savage. Well beyond what was needed for a civilized person anyway. Rick never wanted Carl to see that vicious uncontrolled side of him.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Watcher0363

[kikismom]

I don't mind killing off characters and bringing in new ones...but could we have new actors of the same caliber as the early seasons?

We went from Michael Rooker and Michael Raymond James and Scott Wilson to Christian Serrato?Sonequa Martin-Green? Josh McDermitt?

 

It just oddly seems that the more popular this show is, the cheaper the budget (?) I fear that TPTB think TWD is now popular enough that they can not try as hard as they did at first to make quality episodes.

 

I love Daryl; but I will not riot if he dies. I will riot if it turns out they decided the character of Negan should be played by Nick Cannon.

 

 

 

[kj4ever]

I don't mind killing off characters and bringing in new ones...but could we have new actors of the same caliber as the early seasons?

We went from Michael Rooker and Michael Raymond James and Scott Wilson to Christian Serrato?Sonequa Martin-Green? Josh McDermitt?

 

It just oddly seems that the more popular this show is, the cheaper the budget (?) I fear that TPTB think TWD is now popular enough that they can not try as hard as they did at first to make quality episodes.

 

I love Daryl; but I will not riot if he dies. I will riot if it turns out they decided the character of Negan should be played by Nick Cannon.

THIS THIS THIS

 

I really do think it is the actors.  Even when Michonne was just walking around sneering I still wanted to know more about her - knew there was something there.  I don't know if I just hate the Tyreese character or if it's the actor, Sasha is just ugh, and all Team Eugene could just fall of the face of the Earth for all I care.  Tara?  Blah. The characters introduced in Season 4 (and 3) just sucked.  It makes me worried for Season 5 because there aren't a whole lot of them left that I like!

 

I've never read the comics (the boyfriend bought the big book of them but I just can't) but from what I've seen around this Negan person is supposed to make the governor look like a choir boy.

Edited August 25, 2014 by kj4ever

[kikismom]

Agreed about Sasha, Tara, Abe/Eugene/Rosita, even somewhat Tyreese and Bob.
Agree about Michonne; it made me think about how Herschel was such a fruit loop at the beginning, but I found him fascinating.
 
I'm not one of those people who only likes "nice" characters. Dave-and-Tony, Merle, the prison's OriginalGangsters, all held the screen better than all the new group members put together. and better than the Governor IMHO he was cartoonish.
Lennie James always knows how to deliver a line like an artist.
Anyone who thinks it's just depending on getting a good script, Axel was a terrific character without much in the script. Morales is still remembered and that was nothing special dialogue-wise. Meanwhile I'm afraid Beth (Emily Kinney) get a story arc with huge events and character development and my personal feeling is that she can't handle it. I wish Hailey Steinfeld from True Grit was one of the young female characters. And people like Bruce McGill, character actors who can take a weak page or smaller screen time and make it memorable. I think Will Estes (BlueBloods) could play a cousin of Daryl's---if that actor didn't already have a job.

Edited August 25, 2014 by kikismom

[NumberCruncher]

I wonder if part of the reason the show has moved away from the stronger character actors ala Michael Rooker and Scott Wilson is partly due to being able to attract the more well-known names.  Obviously AMC has proven itself to be extremely budget-conscious, but I also wonder if some actors simply don't want to sign onto a show where in any random moment their character could be zombie bait.  It would make sense for unknowns to flock to a role on TWD because a paycheck is better than none but not necessarily for more recognized faces who would prefer the opportunity for a steadier gig.

[kj4ever]

Agreed about Sasha, Tara, Abe/Eugene/Rosita, even somewhat Tyreese and Bob.

Agree about Michonne; it made me think about how Herschel was such a fruit loop at the beginning, but I found him fascinating.

 

I'm not one of those people who only likes "nice" characters. Dave-and-Tony, Merle, the prison's OriginalGangsters, all held the screen better than all the new group members put together. and better than the Governor IMHO he was cartoonish.

Lennie James always knows how to deliver a line like an artist.

Anyone who thinks it's just depending on getting a good script, Axel was a terrific character without much in the script. Morales is still remembered and that was nothing special dialogue-wise. Meanwhile I'm afraid Beth (Emily Kinney) get a story arc with huge events and character development and my personal feeling is that she can't handle it. I wish Hailey Steinfeld from True Grit was one of the young female characters. And people like Bruce McGill, character actors who can take a weak page or smaller screen time and make it memorable. I think Will Estes (BlueBloods) could play a cousin of Daryl's---if that actor didn't already have a job.

The Governor was way cartoonish.  I hope they aren't so attached to their comic book villians that they all turn out like that.  It just doesn't translate to the screen.

 

One thing I'll admit, and I was as shocked as can be, is that I saw hope for the Beth character.  Before she was just like Judith's babysitter blah blah, so much like the new characters we have now.  The difference is I actually *gasp* cared when she got taken.  I thought her episodes with Daryl were done well and pushed both of their characters storylines forward.

[ghoulina]

I cared when Beth got taken....because of Daryl. And Maggie. I don't dislike the Beth character, but Emily Kinney just is not an entirely convincing actress. She doesn't have the confidence and maturity that others do. She's best relegated to secondary character, if even that. I think part of the problem is also that the writers seem to sometimes have a hard time writing for younger characters. I think Chandler Riggs is great, considering his age - and he continues to grow every season. But some of his scenes come across a little cheesy, and I blame a lot of it on the dialogue. It just doesn't always sound authentic to me. 

[kj4ever]

There is something I've been confused about since I saw it, and maybe someone can shed some light on it for me. In the episode Indifference, are we supposed to think that the greenhouse girl's leg just fell off?

I mean it looks like it was cut off, and if she was walking around on it I don't see how it could be so weak that it would sever so cleanly.

[kikismom]

Just here to say I got my Season 4 box set, 5 dvds, 1cd of music, and prison key. I am way too excited for someone my age.

(Oh who do I think I'm fooling?)

Edited August 26, 2014 by kikismom

[ghoulina]

I just ordered mine from Amazon, kikismom! It should be here tomorrow? I'm so excited. 

 

kj4ever, I will have to rewatch and see exactly what the leg looked like, but I always thought it was gnawed off?

[kj4ever]

I just ordered mine from Amazon, kikismom! It should be here tomorrow? I'm so excited. 

 

kj4ever, I will have to rewatch and see exactly what the leg looked like, but I always thought it was gnawed off?

It looks like it was removed by a surgeon....lol

[mandolin]

It is pretty clean!

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140117002008/walkingdead/images/8/8f/Ana-walking-dead-severed-leg-indifference_zps3ac23757.jpg

[kikismom]

regarding greenhouse girl and her leg, I think

it was assumed that walkers got them but we do see the guy she was with at Terminus. So what really happened to the fruit people may be different than we assumed.

[kj4ever]

Has anyone ever tried to put together a who were where timeline of the prison gang's travels? Like how no one but Glenn saw Maggie's messages? I get that Daryl was behind Rick and Co, but shouldn't they have crossed some of the messages? Or Carol and Tyreese?

[eejm]

Probably the thing I liked most about the whole season was how they highlighted the fact that zombies might be the least of their worries.  I know they had their fight with the Gov previously, but the inclusion of Joe and his gang?  Well what a wake up call to how the world world works in the ZA.  The sickness?  There are people that die from the flu now, so imagine what could happen without modern medicine.  Season 4 gave us the feeling that fences and walls cannot keep out every danger, whether it be walkers, humans, or sickness.

 

I really, really liked the flu storyline for just the reasons you stated.  Our group had finally merged and were living and thriving in peace in a seemingly ideal location (eh, as well at it could be in the ZA).  The prison had rudimentary running water and electricity, and the colony was thriving enough that they were even taking new people in. The walkers were being kept at bay, and the Governor was nowhere to be seen.  Then BOOM, the flu hits the group.  Treatment is lacking, and there is the added risk of more walkers being made from the flu deaths.  (They were actually rather lucky to be in the prison - at least the doors could be closed on the flu sufferers, effectively cornering them if they did end up as walkers.)  The point being was that there was no real safe place anymore.

 

As for Joe and his group of fellow creeps, I'm honestly surprised that we hadn't seen previous bands of wandering sociopaths.  But I did like how the Merletones brought Daryl back with Rick, Michonne, and Carl.  Hey, silver linings...

[bunnyblue]

I must be easy to please because my enjoyment of this show increases with each season. S4 was probably my favorite. I don't like every storyline or all the characters but I keep coming back because I'm invested in the fates of the original Atlanta group, Maggie, Michonne, Tyreese, and Sasha. 

 

I loved that they had built a safe haven at the prison. They still had to go out on runs and there were still individual stories to tell but I liked that they had become a family and welcomed outsiders. I knew it had to end because it would get boring if they stayed but I enjoyed the prison arc while it lasted. The first groan inducing misstep for me was the reappearance of the Governor. I know the writer's had a hard-on for the actor and character but those 2 episodes dedicated to him were my least favorite and I've never rewatched them. My gawd, 2 episodes, really?

 

I still mourn Hershel. That poor sweet old man. :(

 

 

I really, really liked the flu storyline for just the reasons you stated.  Our group had finally merged and were living and thriving in peace in a seemingly ideal location (eh, as well at it could be in the ZA).  The prison had rudimentary running water and electricity, and the colony was thriving enough that they were even taking new people in. The walkers were being kept at bay, and the Governor was nowhere to be seen.  Then BOOM, the flu hits the group.  Treatment is lacking, and there is the added risk of more walkers being made from the flu deaths.  (They were actually rather lucky to be in the prison - at least the doors could be closed on the flu sufferers, effectively cornering them if they did end up as walkers.)  The point being was that there was no real safe place anymore.

 

I liked the flu storyline too. It was welcome change of pace from the usual threat of walkers. I liked that they were being overwhelmed by the flu and the walkers at the fence at the same time. Those were a few nice suspenseful episodes. And Hershel just kicked butt. Although I was annoyed that he and the doctor kept some of the individual cell doors open which caused Hershel to be overwhelmed by the newly animated walkers. That was just stupid.

 

 

Probably the thing I liked most about the whole season was how they highlighted the fact that zombies might be the least of their worries.  I know they had their fight with the Gov previously, but the inclusion of Joe and his gang?  Well what a wake up call to how the world world works in the ZA.

 

Agree. I felt that Joe and his gang succeeded where the Governor failed. Armed rapists & killers that can track and enjoy torturing people in the lawless ZA are far scarier than walkers. And certainly scarier than a bunch of delusional nitwits behind walls wanting to wage "war" (eye roll)  with our prison group.

 

I wasn't a big fan of following the splintered groups after the prison fell (how the hell did they not have a predetermined meet up location after all they've been through?) but I liked most of S4 part B. "After", "Inmates", "The Grove", and "A" were my standouts. The Daryl & Beth episode was a complete WTF. 

 

The hipsters at Terminus piqued my interest and, like kj4ever, I can't wait for S5.

[kikismom]

Re-watching season 4, I think "Still" could have been left out completely. Nothing in that episode was necessary to the continuity of the story.

The 2 Governor storylines could have been consolidated; "Dead Weight" is one of the most poorly written episodes ever. I hate the way the momentum of the sickness arc built and built suspense, drama, and energy and then the show stalls before the final prison battle. Very big mistake with pacing. I hope the writer of "Dead Weight" doesn't get another chance in Season 5.

[kj4ever]

Re-watching season 4, I think "Still" could have been left out completely. Nothing in that episode was necessary to the continuity of the story.

The 2 Governor storylines could have been consolidated; "Dead Weight" is one of the most poorly written episodes ever. I hate the way the momentum of the sickness arc built and built suspense, drama, and energy and then the show stalls before the final prison battle. Very big mistake with pacing. I hope the writer of "Dead Weight" doesn't get another chance in Season 5.

Everything about the Governor in Season 4 sucked.  They should have introduced a new big bad.  He was just a tired, worn out storyline that was around way too much in Season 3, much less Season 4.  Maybe if they would have created a new evil dude he wouldn't have come out as cartoonish as the Governor.

 

Bunnyblue I can't agree more.  How in the world did these people with all their experience not have a pre-determined meeting place. Put all the kids on a bus and drive away isn't exactly a good plan.  Maybe because they all went to where Sophia was found at the end of Season 2 and no one (besides Andrea, who they thought was dead) was left behind they just didn't think about it?  But how could they not???  I guess they figure the last half of the season wouldn't have been as good if they were all still together?  I know they were driving characters storylines, but they could have done that without a big old mess like they did.

 

I think it would have been much better if they did all have a meeting place and while on the road  saw signs for Terminus and part of the group wanted to go, while others had the smart "if it looks to good to be true it probably is" thing going on.  They could splinter that way, with the smart people maybe finding out what Terminus was and rushing to save the group that set off for it.

[mandolin]

The best part of the Governor story, part 2 was the music. Love "Last Pale Light in the West." 

 

Anyway, not having a meeting place was the biggest problem for me as a viewer (and my husband, who is a big nitpicker). As much scouting as they did ("Michonne and I found this place", etc), why not have a couple houses that were stocked and fortified in case of attack? The Grove house wasn't that far away. I guess they were just lulled into a false sense of safe community. Though, Rick and Hershel's flashback exchange in "A" makes me think Rick knew it couldn't last, which means they should've had a plan. Hershel says something like, "it could always be like this" and Rick says, "it's like this now. That's enough."

[ghoulina]

As for Joe and his group of fellow creeps, I'm honestly surprised that we hadn't seen previous bands of wandering sociopaths.

 

They're definitely out there. They came across Dave and Tony in the bar during season 2. They were a wandering band of rapists, apparently. We just didn't get to see very much of them. 

 

I liked the flu storyline too. It was welcome change of pace from the usual threat of walkers. I liked that they were being overwhelmed by the flu and the walkers at the fence at the same time.

 

What episode was that, "Internment"? - When Hershel is taking down all the flu victims-turned walkers, whilst Carl and Rick are mowing down the herd that broke the fence? I absolutely loved that episode. It was super intense, but emotional as well. That was a real breaking point for Hershel. He had really kept his hands "clean" up until that point, but he was forced to go right into the fray and it was life changing for him. I was so proud of him for risking his life to care for all of this sick people, and it was heartbreaking that he survived all that, only to be taken out by the Governor. RIP Hershel!

Re-watching season 4, I think "Still" could have been left out completely. Nothing in that episode was necessary to the continuity of the story.

 

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Still. It wasn't the best episode of the season, by far. But I thought some of that Daryl character development was necessary. I think he had been carrying a real chip on his shoulder about certain things and Beth's ridiculously positive attitude finally helped him work through it. I am one of the few who really enjoyed the end, when they burned down the cabin and flipped it off. I think that was a really cathartic moment for Daryl. 

[kikismom]

 

As for Joe and his group of fellow creeps, I'm honestly surprised that we hadn't seen previous bands of wandering sociopaths.

As ghoulina mentioned, there was Dave and Tony--who said they had some buddies back at camp--and there was also Randall's gang, remember? He said they were about 30 of them. And several other people talked about camps going bad; not just from walkers. Our group spent so much time at the quarry, the farm, the prison...they spent less time on the road than in one place. That's why they seldom ran into others, including rapey robbers. That's another thing to consider for people who advocate staying on the move as a survival strategy....you'll run into more people, those people will be strangers, and a lot of them will be freaks.

[kj4ever]

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Still. It wasn't the best episode of the season, by far. But I thought some of that Daryl character development was necessary. I think he had been carrying a real chip on his shoulder about certain things and Beth's ridiculously positive attitude finally helped him work through it. I am one of the few who really enjoyed the end, when they burned down the cabin and flipped it off. I think that was a really cathartic moment for Daryl. 

I did too.  I liked that we saw that side of him, not just the emotional side but the asshole side.  I actually liked Beth in it too.  She is supposed to be this protected teenager and I think she did well with that she was given to work with in that episode. 

 

I'm also probably in the biggest minority when I say I really want to see what happens with the Beth character now.  She was always quoting back things her Father said like "We all got jobs to do" and I think she was a Daddy's girl who just wanted to make her Father happy.  That made her a bit boring as a character, but I think it will be interesting to see how her story goes from here.  I think others might have liked it too if it weren't for the big shipping wars and quite frankly I can't see Daryl with Beth or Carol.  Beth seems to young and Carol seems to old.  That, and I think he's like asexual or something.

[ghoulina]

As ghoulina mentioned, there was Dave and Tony--who said they had some buddies back at camp--and there was also Randall's gang, remember? He said they were about 30 of them.

 

Randall's gang WAS Dave and Tony's gang, remember? After Rick shot Dave and Tony, that group of people came looking for them and the shoot-out ensued. The gang realized they needed to get out of there, there were walkers everywhere, and they abandoned Randall on the roof. 

[kikismom]

Randall's gang WAS Dave and Tony's gang, remember? After Rick shot Dave and Tony, that group of people came looking for them and the shoot-out ensued. The gang realized they needed to get out of there, there were walkers everywhere, and they abandoned Randall on the roof. 

You're right! Oops! :-D

[mandolin]

Just here to say I got my Season 4 box set, 5 dvds, 1cd of music, and prison key. I am way too excited for someone my age.

(Oh who do I think I'm fooling?)

My husband ordered mine for my birthday, and it came yesterday, but we won't do gifts until tonight. I could be watching RIGHT NOW. :P

[NumberCruncher]

I did too.  I liked that we saw that side of him, not just the emotional side but the asshole side.  I actually liked Beth in it too.  She is supposed to be this protected teenager and I think she did well with that she was given to work with in that episode. 

 

I'm also probably in the biggest minority when I say I really want to see what happens with the Beth character now.  She was always quoting back things her Father said like "We all got jobs to do" and I think she was a Daddy's girl who just wanted to make her Father happy.  That made her a bit boring as a character, but I think it will be interesting to see how her story goes from here.  I think others might have liked it too if it weren't for the big shipping wars and quite frankly I can't see Daryl with Beth or Carol.  Beth seems to young and Carol seems to old.  That, and I think he's like asexual or something.

 

Honestly, I wish they would go the asexual route with Daryl--in part because you rarely see people like that represented in mainstream TV.  I don't want him to be the "token" character where sexuality (or lack thereof) becomes a plot point, but I'd be perfectly fine leaving him out of a sexual relationship altogether.   He already has problems relating to others around him due to abandonment/neglect/trust issues from his childhood, so let him continue to work through those.  Not every relationship has to be about who's sleeping with whom.

 

And I agree about Beth too.  She has shown some real character growth from being the obedient daddy's girl with suicidal tendencies to someone who can take care of herself and is not afraid to tell off someone like Daryl when he throws insults in her face.  I've also appreciated that she has carried Hershel's mantle a bit in his absence by reminding people that the world isn't just a pool of doom.  I completely get that this is the ZA and so major darkness is expected, but you also need a little bit of positivity to balance out all of the gloom or the show just becomes a chore to watch.

[kikismom]

My husband ordered mine for my birthday, and it came yesterday, but we won't do gifts until tonight. I could be watching RIGHT NOW. :P

Happy Birthday!!!

 

 

 

  Not every relationship has to be about who's sleeping with whom.

 

 

Thank you!

I hadn't noticed till now that Karen also wore the Side-Braid of Death.

Never wear your hair like that! Good things don't happen to people with a side-braid!

[kj4ever]

Happy Birthday!!!

Thank you!I hadn't noticed till now that Karen also wore the Side-Braid of Death.

Never wear your hair like that! Good things don't happen to people with a side-braid!

Crap I wore one today. . IF I don't post tomorrow you know why!

I'll have to do something completely stupid so that I'll be kept around for drama's sake.

Edited August 27, 2014 by kj4ever

[mandolin]

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I'm about to have that sucker in my happy little hands! :P

 

Drama didn't save Lizzie and her side braid...good luck kj4ever!

[kj4ever]

Thanks for the birthday wishes! I'm about to have that sucker in my happy little hands! :P

 

Drama didn't save Lizzie and her side braid...good luck kj4ever!

I made it!  I hope you had a great birthday and enjoyed your blue rays.  So do you think there is enough extra footage to get the season even if you have all of them DVR'd?

[mandolin]

I haven't watched all the extra stuff but there is quite a bit. A lot was on amc.com I think. Some deleted scenes, some behind the scenes, commentary on 5 eps I think. And Rick dropping the f bomb at the end of "A."

The picture quality is awesome.

[ghoulina]

I always buy the dvd sets, even though I have stuff on DVR. It frees up room on the DVR, plus FFing commercials can cause you to lose some momentum. 

[kikismom]

I didn't notice something before...like the past 10 times I watched Season 4 :-)

When the fruit people tell Rick and Carol that they were in a refugee camp until a couple weeks ago when a fire started and everybody stampeded and trampled the girl's leg.

Neither Rick or Carol ask "What the hell?! A refugee camp?! Up till 2 weeks ago there was a refugee camp around here?!"

I mean it had to be somewhere close; Daryl says it will take 7 hours to get 50 miles home from the veterinary college. And the fruit people didn't even know how to kill walkers they weren't smart enough to travel better and farther than our group.  The fruit people don't say it was just some friends; they say they were separated from their crew at a refugee camp they were at until 2 weeks ago. Rick's group has been all around that freakin region from Atlanta to the Greene's to the whole big map when they were on the run at the beginning of Season 3 when they finally find the prison.

Even if the place burned, wouldn't you ask Where? How many people? Was there military there? If the place wasn't overrun by walkers which way did all those other people go?

Daryl says the military built the fence around the Big Spot parking lot for people; and no one discusses this again. Obviously it went bad, but why was the military all these different places like Atlanta and the Big Spot and Woodbury but Rick's group never saw any?

[kj4ever]

I didn't notice something before...like the past 10 times I watched Season 4 :-)

When the fruit people tell Rick and Carol that they were in a refugee camp until a couple weeks ago when a fire started and everybody stampeded and trampled the girl's leg.

Neither Rick or Carol ask "What the hell?! A refugee camp?! Up till 2 weeks ago there was a refugee camp around here?!"

I mean it had to be somewhere close; Daryl says it will take 7 hours to get 50 miles home from the veterinary college. And the fruit people didn't even know how to kill walkers they weren't smart enough to travel better and farther than our group.  The fruit people don't say it was just some friends; they say they were separated from their crew at a refugee camp they were at until 2 weeks ago. Rick's group has been all around that freakin region from Atlanta to the Greene's to the whole big map when they were on the run at the beginning of Season 3 when they finally find the prison.

Even if the place burned, wouldn't you ask Where? How many people? Was there military there? If the place wasn't overrun by walkers which way did all those other people go?

Daryl says the military built the fence around the Big Spot parking lot for people; and no one discusses this again. Obviously it went bad, but why was the military all these different places like Atlanta and the Big Spot and Woodbury but Rick's group never saw any?

I don't think they meant that they left the refugee camp a week ago.  They said they got split up from their "crew" a week ago and when she was talking about her leg she said it happened at a refugee camp and that's how they met.  With how deformed looking it was she wouldn't be walking on it in a week I don't think.

 

I really found the look Rick gave Carol interesting when he said "Wait here" and she was all "or you could help us go looking".  He was pissed for sure, and I wonder if she was testing them.  When Rick asked her if she thought it was the right move she said it was the humane thing to do, and that it was right if they could help them get through the mess.  I wonder if sending them out was her testing them, which I find ironic because Carol has spent the whole ZA being protected by others and like doing laundry.

 

It's a shame too because those were two newbs that I really liked, liked way more then some of the characters who have been on the show for awhile.

 

Also, is it wrong if during the whole Rick/Carol exchange about how she killed two of their own but he killed one and they both did it because they thought they were going to kill them all I could think about was "There's a roll of toilet paper behind Rick he should snag it!" ?

[ghoulina]

Carol didn't spend the whole ZA being protected and doing laundry. You have to remember, when the farm burned - it had only been a few weeks into Rick's journey, maybe a few months into the ZA at most. I can't remember the timeline, but fans have sussed it out before and it wasn't long. I think by the time we left the farm she was a different person, as we saw when season 3 opened. She was a heck of a lot tougher, she could shoot fairly well, she took watches, etc. That winter on the road made everyone step up and Carol was no exception. 

 

But yes, I do think that she thought letting the fruit kids go out and help them was testing them. Carol had gotten a bit too hard, IMO. Yes, it's a tough world and people need to be tough if they're going to survive. But I don't know that it would have hurt anything to let the Fruit Hippies hang back and train them more when they all got back to the prison. But....then again, they asked to go. And group or not, refuge center or not, we are definitely over a year into the ZA at this point. And if the best they can do by now is hide from ONE walker in a bathroom and try to throw fruit at it, maybe there's not much hope for you!

 

Yes, I did just basically have an argument with myself. That's what this show does to me.

[kj4ever]

Eh she was better but still wasn't going on runs and needed Rick to save her when she went outside the fence. People could definitely be useful even if they weren't a Maggie or Daryl, so considering Rick just had to pull her out of the way of a falling down the stairs zombie, well she was in no position to think they wouldn't be useful unless they could canvas a neighborhood for booty.

[NurseGiGi]

I really hope they don't find a love interest for Daryl.  Since Glen and Maggie have become a couple I've noticed that they just haven't had much character development, especially Glen.  I just don't want that to happen to Daryl.

 

I'm with others who have said they don't care much for the newer characters ie Sasha/Tyrese/Bob/the Eugene trio.  I don't know, maybe their characters haven't been fleshed out enough to suit me but I don't really care what happens to them.  

 

And I hope that Robert Kirkman and tptb realize that what might be interesting and great in the books might come across as implausible and cartoonish on screen (I'm looking at you, the people in the Eugene trio).  Sorry, but I can't remember her name.  Oh, and can't forget about the Gov since he definitely didn't translate well to the little screen.

 

I'm interested to see what happens in Season 5 but worried, too.  I've read that they will be sticking closer to the books and that hasn't worked out for them in the past.

 

P.S.- I would trade one T Dog for every new character they've introduced.  They really wasted his potential and I'm not even sure why.

[ghoulina]

Eh she was better but still wasn't going on runs and needed Rick to save her when she went outside the fence. People could definitely be useful even if they weren't a Maggie or Daryl, so considering Rick just had to pull her out of the way of a falling down the stairs zombie, well she was in no position to think they wouldn't be useful unless they could canvas a neighborhood for booty.

 

Well, not everyone can go out on runs. People have different strengths, and that's a benefit in a community. But I think Carol could hold her own, otherwise Rick would not have left her on her own. And she did survive for a few days until she reunited with Tyrese. 

 

As for her having to be saved outside the fence, haven't they all had to be saved by someone else at one time or another? That's the nature of this world, and that's why you stick with a group. Rick was almost done for when the Governor attacked the prison for the first time (in season 3), but Daryl and Merle showed back up and saved him. 

 

Carol may never be a Daryl or a Rick. And that's okay. She doesn't need to be. As long as she progresses and improves on her OWN self, that's what matters. And I think she has. 

[kikismom]

 

Also, is it wrong if during the whole Rick/Carol exchange about how she killed two of their own but he killed one and they both did it because they thought they were going to kill them all I could think about was "There's a roll of toilet paper behind Rick he should snag it!" ?

So glad I'm not the only one!  I was a bit ashamed to think that if I was there I'd be yelling at them "Never mind murder; that's toilet paper! Priorities!"

 

I did think it was semi-funny that after Rick's speech to Carol, the Governor attacks...and when Rick proposes they could live together, the Gov. says he wouldn't feel safe with his family under the same room as Rick! Reap the whirlwind Rick.

 

Bugged by how they went to the Big Spot and say get just the important stuff and they can come back later with more people to get other stuff...then they are shown amblin' around the aisles like they have all the time in the world. I have more urgency when I shop right now; I can blitz through Wal-Mart, fill a cart, and be through the self-checkout in 15 minutes. And I have to pay for it! If it was free, you'd be eating my dust baby.

Edited September 2, 2014 by kikismom

[Watcher0363]

Blitzing through the ZA isn't that a quick way to get ankle bitten. Watch your step, peek around corners, always knock before openining. Oh and always take your pudding time on the roof.

[ghoulina]

I did think it was semi-funny that after Rick's speech to Carol, the Governor attacks...and when Rick proposes they could live together, the Gov. says he wouldn't feel safe with his family under the same room as Rick! Reap the whirlwind Rick.

 

But did you think Rick really meant it? I didn't. I didn't think for one second he would allow the Governor to live under the same roof as his kids. I felt like he was just saying whatever he could think of in that moment to try and prevent people from dying. Obviously it didn't work, though.

[kj4ever]

But did you think Rick really meant it? I didn't. I didn't think for one second he would allow the Governor to live under the same roof as his kids. I felt like he was just saying whatever he could think of in that moment to try and prevent people from dying. Obviously it didn't work, though.

I took it as Rick was buying time so that the kids could get loaded on the bus and they could enacted the escape route?  Perhaps I'm giving him to much credit...lol