Cagney & Lacey - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run.

[GHScorpiosRule]

YES!!! Finally a forum to discuss one of my favorite shows!

 

Thanks Bastet!

 

I'll start off: I had never seen the pilot which had Loretta Switt as Christine Cagney; I think I started watching right around the time Sharon Gless took over; though I do recall one episode with Meg Foster, who, in hindsight, is just not Christine Cagney for me. Or maybe it's because I started with Gless. I dunno. Or my bias and love for Sharon Gless.

 

Anyhoo, I am so glad I didn't see the pilot, because I HATED Harvey! Why'd he have to be such an ASSHOLE? And I've never liked that actor, either; in all shows/movies I'd seen him in, he was always a skeevy, shady lawyer.  Sidney Sheldon's Rage of Angels comes to mind.

 

Tyne Daly is a goddess. And whoa! I never realized just how hot she was.

 

And I never knew that Cagney and Lacey were the first women detective in the 14th precinct. Or was it the entire NYPD?  I am trying very hard not to get angry at the way they were treated in the pilot.  

 

I've got all this stuff going in my head; I need to organize my thoughts before I comment further. I just had to vent about Pilot!Harvey. So glad they recast him, because I do love John Karlen!

[Bastet]

John Karlen did, indeed, do a much better job with Harvey.  And, to be fair to the pilot actor, the writers also did a better job with Harvey in the series.  Series Harvey can be just as aggravating as pilot Harvey, even unbearable at times, but Karlen has such a relatable nature that I can at understand and even sympathize with why Harvey is acting that way.

 

I love this entire series, from the TV movie pilot to the final reunion movie (although the latter is my least favorite, due to the Michael Moriarty storyline).  It's one of the few long-running shows that I enjoy just as much in the final season as I did in the first.  I like how Chris was written when played by Meg Foster, and really resent the whole "we need to soften one of them up; they come across as dykes" debacle that followed.  But the chemistry between Tyne Daly and Sharon Gless is legendary, so I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

I'm not sure if I get This TV (which has just started airing it), but I have the complete series on DVD and just re-watched it last year, so I can follow along regardless.  I'm excited; this is one of my all-time favorite shows.  Something developed and executive produced by a feminist (and, in a twist, a male feminist) with an expressly feminist viewpoint and purpose, well written, and fantastically acted?  It's pretty much tailor made for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh, no argument, I remember Series Harvey being just as aggravating, but like you said, it was Karlen who just made him more bearable.

 

It was really weird; this channel, instead of airing the pilot as a two hour movie, split it into two episodes. BUT, the end of the first hour cut into whatever Cagney was saying. And when I selected the second "episode" on my dvr, it picked up where the first cut off. I don't think it was anything significant, as it went to commercial. But it was weird. Normally, most other syndicated shows, allow for a commercial before cutting it off.

 

Anyhow.  I couldn't help but recognize at least two actors in the pilot who went on to become recurring judges on Law & Order Joan Copeland and Harvey Atkin. Copeland looked so young! 

 

I kept telling myself, "It's 1980, it's 1980" whenever their Captain or Samuels would make sexist, mysogynist remarks.  Though I did laugh when it turned out that their "John detail" dovetailed and actually was connected with the murders of the two Diamond brokers, Freidlander and Goldman. 

 

And I think it was in the pilot, where Lacey emphasized that she was "Mother-Wife-Cop" and I also loved that she called Cagney on her penchant for leaving her out of the loop.  She did it again in the first episode as well.

 

But lord, did I cringe when I saw those Rubix Cube earrings that Lacey sported! I'm bracing myself for the "big hair" to make an appearance.

 

I never knew that bringing Sharon Gless in was an effort to soften the character of Christine Cagney. And I  had cerainly never read about how Foster's Cagney gave off a "dyke" personality.  I just thought Gless and Daly were just so great together. And I also didn't know that they had been best friends since their Academy days. I just thought that being partners led to their friendship. Hey, I was a kid--I didn't really pay attention to the little details then. Of course, I didn't see the pilot, so there you go.

 

And I couldn't help but think of Cruella DeVille whenever Lacey wore that prositute wig.  And in all other shows where I've seen Meg Foster, she's always had the layered hair, so this curly mop/messy hair took some getting used to as well.

 

It's so odd to see what New York was like back then, not to mention remembering how it was then, to how it is now.  Of course, I think it was filmed in both New York and Los Angeles, and I'm hoping all the outside scenes are New York, and not just stock footage. But I've never been to L.A., so I'm not sure.

 

And I also rolled my eyes really hard, when Samuels thought that sending Cagney and Lacey to the homicide scene where that prostitue was all stabbed in the tub, would make them hurl and then decide that maybe they wanted to stick with the John detail after all.  I mean, the show seemed to imply that as beat cops, they'd never come across homicides.  And then Cagney had to get all almost sick. I'm glad that Lacey used Samuels's name to prevent her from hurling. I'd like to think she was able to suck it up.

 

I missed the reunion movies, so I'm hoping to see them eventually. And another actor who eventually ended up on Law & Order? Michael Moriarty's* Ben Stone was my favorite ADA.  From your comment, I'm assuming he's a bad guy? I doubt this channel will air them. Or maybe they just might. They aired the two hour pilot, after all.

 

*I really like Moriarty and will always be sad he went all Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

[Bastet]

I think it was filmed in both New York and Los Angeles, and I'm hoping all the outside scenes are New York, and not just stock footage. But I've never been to L.A., so I'm not sure.

 

No, they filmed both interiors and exteriors in LA and just used stock footage of NY for establishing shots.  (And as you keep going, you'll get a good laugh at how often that shot from the pilot of everyone moving their cars outside the Lacey apartment gets reused.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

No, they filmed both interiors and exteriors in LA and just used stock footage of NY for establishing shots.  (And as you keep going, you'll get a good laugh at how often that shot from the pilot of everyone moving their cars outside the Lacey apartment gets reused.)

 

Well, shoot. Hey, at least I don't feel so stupid thinking New York changed that much, heh.  Oh, I laughed at that scene of everyone moving their cars--convenient how the other side just happens to have spaces for them to just move them across the street!

Edited January 13, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

So. I didn't realize the first season comprised of just the six episodes with Meg Foster!

Saw the second, third and fourth episodes last night and today.

The second one, about the Chinese bank robbers...was very muddy and didn't really keep my attention, except for the fact that I noticed that Harvey, Junior and Michael had been recast to look more like Mary Beth. Stuff like that, I always catch. Or like whenever there has been a change in cast from pilot to regular season, or recast down the line. Back then, there was never any bruhaha over who was going to replace a supporting character, I don't think. Good to know that Dick O'Neill remained as Christine's dad, though! I remember, during the seasons with Sharon Gless, I don't know which season it was, just that Mary Beth was pregnant and at home because of her pregnancy, where O'Neill appeared again, and Christine was having issues with him, and I think, by this time, we knew that Christine was an alcoholic? She had come over to talk to Mary Beth, and I remember how she was helping Mary Beth with her maternity exercises.

I did love how Harvey had set up a romantic night for Mary Beth when she got home in that episode, though. And I did love those lines by Foster, sarcastically apologizing for not being in the fraternity of motherhood, and how MB turns into this Jell-O or something or other. I'm mucking it up, but the delivery had me laughing.

And did they retcon why Harvey can't work construction any longer? I'm pretty certain that in the pilot, he was unemployed because "no one was doing any construction" per Mary Beth's words. Not a thing was said he wasn't working because of an inner ear imbalance, which was the reason for him continuing to be the Super at their apartment building.

It was late, so I might mix up stuff from that episode and the third, which was about Mary Beth going undercover to find out what happened with the illegal teenager, who was killed by accident? on purpose? I am left with one question while I am watching this first season: Is Mary Beth always the one who gets the crap beat out of her? It happened in the pilot, and I think in the first episode as well, and here.

And then the latest--about the old man, 80 years old, who shot that Toro gang member, because he and his member had knives or something. I had to really tell myself, over and over again, it was the early 80's. Because the attitude of the other cops's wives, both pregnant and not, toward Mary Beth and Christine just pissed me off. Not to mention the reason why they weren't invited to the "shower." Really? I though showers were for women only? Ugh. Pissed me off, the way they looked at them with jealousy and contempt. Of course, Christine's words of trying to placate them, which could have double meanings, and her being oblivious (really??) didn't help, and irked me even more.

I really feel lazy, and I know I'm going to have to look it up, but did they NOT have ivs in this decade? I mean, that kid that old man shot? In the hospital bed? He's moaning and groaning and arching his back, because he was in pain, was just ridiculous. I didn't see him hooked up to any ivs at all. Or any oxygen. You know the kind where that thingamajig is inserted under the nose so you get oxygen? I can't recall the technical name for it. Or did they just save that for major operations? Come ON! Even in The Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman, not to mention other shows from the 70s had them!

And then there was the whole thing with that attractive, ditzy tenant, who kept coming up to have Harvey open her door or fix her dripping faucet. Though I did like how it wasn't made into this whole huge angst like you would see on shows today.

And this is what I appreciate about this show, or any of the other shows I'm watching from this era: No ridiculous or eye roll worthy "triangles" or marital angst that get dragged on for stupid and idiotic reasons.

I'm sure I've missed some stuff, but I'm also sure I'll remember after someone else posts their comments.

Edited January 20, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[DXD526]

I also was wondering why all the guys at the precinct were invited to the baby shower. That was odd. Baby showers are supposed to be 'hen parties'.

 

The wives at that party behaved appallingly. I was around in the 80s, I don't remember it being quite that regressive. I never suffered that level of abuse from co-workers' wives when I was single; not to my face, anyway. That scene was difficult to watch.

 

I'm glad Lt. Samuels is coming around. He was totally obnoxious in the first couple of episodes, pointedly calling C&L "girls" while referring to the rest of the squad as "men", among many other insulting things. I'd forgotten how bad he was in the beginning since for most of the show's run, he was a huge ally and supporter of "the girls"!

 

Haven't seen this show in at least 20 years. Kudos to This TV for bringing it back!

[GHScorpiosRule]

The wives at that party behaved appallingly. I was around in the 80s, I don't remember it being quite that regressive. I never suffered that level of abuse from co-workers' wives when I was single; not to my face, anyway. That scene was difficult to watch.

 

I'm glad Lt. Samuels is coming around. He was totally obnoxious in the first couple of episodes, pointedly calling C&L "girls" while referring to the rest of the squad as "men", among many other insulting things. I'd forgotten how bad he was in the beginning since for most of the show's run, he was a huge ally and supporter of "the girls"!

 

Haven't seen this show in at least 20 years. Kudos to This TV for bringing it back!

 

I am so glad it wasn't just me, then! Yes, your description of the wives is accurate. What was their excuse for looking at Mary Beth, then? I mean, if we assume it was because Christine was single, and thus, a threat? Mary Beth was married and a mother of two!  But Christine being single shouldn't have mattered. I especially more appalled at the hispanic wife, more than Petrie's wife, though her running off crying made me cringe.

 

Like I mentioned in my first post, it's jarring to realize how much of an asshole pilot!Harvey was and Lt. Samuels. Because I started watching when Sharon Gless was playing Christine, so I didn't see/missed out on all the sexism, and derogatory smirks and comments aimed at Christine and Mary Beth.

 

I'm sooo happy that this is back in syndication as well, though I really believe it should be airing on the Heroes & Icons channel, because along with Laura Holt from Remington Steele, Cagney and Lacey were my heroes! But I won't quibble, because at least it is back on the air!

[GHScorpiosRule]

SHARON!!!!!!

 

Ahem.

 

Okay, saw the last two with Foster, and the fifth episode, about how the father killed his oldest daughter...the whole episode was just...difficult to watch and believe. And by the latter, I mean, how Christine, who is supposed to be able to see through bullshit, didn't think anything was amiss. I'm not a cop, and even I could see something was off with the mother, and how the husband wouldn't let her talk or answer questions.

 

But the last episode? With that anti-feminist? Good Gravy. I wonder if Julie Adams's character, was based on a real life person, because this past summer, CNN aired The Seventies, and toward the end, there was this "Anti-Feminist" movement, which pretty much was how the Adams character was written.  And maybe because I had been awake for about 48 hours when I was watching this (insomnia is such a bitch), but did the show ever explain why Michael the stalker, wanted to kill her?  And I had to laugh at my closed captioning saying "ominous music" when it was clearly the music from Psycho that was playing.

 

So then, we finally get Sharon Gless's first episode as the new and permanent Christine Cagney, and what a drastic change in the look and sound of the show.  First, there is the happy, peppy music.  And the show just looks more shiny.  Gone is the dark and gritty look.  One would think that the six episodes that made up the first season was one long pilot. Because that's the only instance where the set and music changes so much.

 

I mean, in the first season, the bullpen for these detectives is like one long hallway, with no other offices or desks. Just the six desks for Cagney, Lacey, Isbecky, Petrie, that old guy and Samuels.  But in the second season? It's a much LARGER set, where Samuels now has his own office, with a door and window, he's not as sexist or mysognistic anymore, and there are a LOT more desks. It went from a straight line to a square.  I smiled throughout the whole scene where Samuels is urging Mary Beth to unload on him, use him as a sounding board and to "ventilate" when it's clear she and Christine are "fighting."

 

At first I thought the show forgot that Mary Beth does know what it feels like to shoot someone, since she did it just last season, what with the way she and Christine were fighting over whether Houser, that civilian that the uniform had shot and killed, had a gun on him or not.  And then at the end, they did have Mary Beth tell Meade, that yeah, she does know what he's going through.

 

I still see the sexism, though. With that doctor person, referring to both Christine and Mary Beth as "ladies" and not "detectives" and that continues to irk.

 

But since I think Tyne and Sharon are just pure magic together, I am so glad that those episodes are now airing.

Edited January 25, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bastet]

that old guy

 

Aww, La Guardia.

 

But the last episode? With that anti-femninist? Good Gravy. I wonder if Julie Adams's character, was based on a real life person,

 

Yes, Phyllis Schlafly and her ilk.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Aww, La Guardia.

 

 

Yes, Phyllis Schlafly and her ilk.

 

I feel so bad! Like I said, I'd been awake for almost two days straight when I was watching, so I couldn't remember his name!

 

Right! That's the one!  I found it so ironic, her stance about women--considering she wasn't at home, being the "wife" and not working, when she was going around to any and every show, spewing her crap. Who was at home taking care of her husband? Certainly not her! And wouldn't her doing all the talk shows and speeches, fall under work?

[Ina123]

Did anyone else catch Tyne Daly as a special guest on Burn Notice where, of course, Sharon Gless plays the lead character's mother?

 

It was so funny. After all these years they still have the chemistry. Look the episode up. It's hilarious.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Did anyone else catch Tyne Daly as a special guest on Burn Notice where, of course, Sharon Gless plays the lead character's mother?

 

It was so funny. After all these years they still have the chemistry. Look the episode up. It's hilarious.

 

Yes! I talked about it in the Judging Amy thread, and that it wasn't enough, because in Burn Notice it was like a five minute, if that long, scene, whereas, when Sharon Gless guest starred on Judging Amy, the characters had a long history of friendship and Gless was in the majority of the episode. But yeah, their chemistry was still there.

[iwasish]

My favorite continuing bit on this show was Harvey's obsession with JFK's assassination and Marybeth having to remind him that they agreed to only talk about it on one day a year.

[DXD526]

It's really fun seeing New York City circa the early 1980s. And in an example of how times have changed, it was so weird to see Chris discover blood at the crime scene and promptly stick her fingers in it. No DNA testing yet in '82, so no need to worry about contaminating the blood. It was so jarring, I rewound just to be sure I saw correctly. Wow. A stark reminder of just how far forensic science has come in the last 35 years. 

Edited February 5, 2016 by DXD526

[GHScorpiosRule]

Blew through the last six episodes, and the last one really stands out to me because I can't believe that Christine was actually justifying Dory (fellow cop/lover) and his "occasional" use of Cocaine. Sorry, make that 'Recreational' and it's not hurting anyone.

 

I really did like how Mary Beth gave her a hard talking to about it; how Christine stopped talking to her dad after finding out he was on the take all those years ago, but she's perfectly okay with Dory's habit.

 

Oh! "Internal Affairs."  I really thought, until the near end, that Michael Durrell (Boy, another HITG! of the 80s), who played the Internal Affairs guy, as the one behind the leaks. And it just "frosts my cookies™*" that instead of using their own IA officers, this show and Hill Street end up using officers that work in the same precinct to do IA's job for them.

 

I love Sharon Gless. And I love Christine Cagney. But I really love Tyne Daly and I really, really, really love Mary Beth Lacey and I'm not ashamed to admit it, but I really love how she and Karlen play Mary Beth and Harvey. Their marriage just smacks of authenticity to me.

 

*Dialogue by Detective Michael Logan (Chris Noth) from Law & Order when he's pissed.

[DXD526]

It certainly was strange how Dory justified his coke use and how Chris gave him a pass for it. I know it was the 80s and *everybody* was trying it, but considering it was Dory's job to arrest people for using, his claim that it made him more 'alert' and a better cop was really lame, no to mention beside the point. Many people who were caught with a little blow in the 80s had their whole lives derailed, regardless of their justification. Dory tried to redeem himself, but I couldn't look at him the same after that, and neither could Mary Beth, who never gets off his case for a minute. Chris didn't do very well in the BF department, IIRC, which I never understood. She seemed to be kind of a dirtbag magnet. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I did wonder what happened to the guy she was dating in the episode or two before the Christmas episode.  I can't recall the character's name, but I do know that Christine thought he was a priest at first. And then kept dodging his calls, not wanting to go out with him at night, etc. And he shows up at the end, with a box full of stuff, his report cards, what not, to show her who he is, etc.  And I thought, the way it ended, that they would continue to see each other. But nope. We got Dory, and no mention of what happened to the other guy.

[DXD526]

And Dory just kind of shows up out of nowhere. Wasn't the coke episode the first mention of him? It is kind of interesting in retrospect that Chris is easy on Dory about the coke. He needed some blow to get through the day, and a few seasons later, Chris's alcoholism takes her over to the point that she can't get through the day without a couple of belts. So she's sympathetic toward him now and probably isn't even conscious of why.

 

I liked the guy who she thought was a priest and turned out not to be. It sure looked like they were setting them up to be a couple, but then he disappeared and was never referred to again.

[GHScorpiosRule]

No. Dory showed up in the Christmas episode; the Cocaine episode was the one right after.  And the one with the I thought he was a priest was right before the Christmas episode.

[Bastet]

Had she worked with Dory before or otherwise known him previously?  I can't remember how they introduced him.  My favorite of her boyfriends is the ACLU lawyer (David, I think).

[GHScorpiosRule]

Had she worked with Dory before or otherwise known him previously?  I can't remember how they introduced him.  My favorite of her boyfriends is the ACLU lawyer (David, I think).

 

Nope. He showed up as her date/boyfriend with whom she was going to cook their Christmas Duck or something. And the whole precinct had to cancel their Christmas plans because that Santa Claus who was arrested for some theft, escaped the cage, and that asshole Deputy Inspector was on Samuels's ass to get him back, so Samuels was an ass to all his detectives.

 

So Dory was waiting for Christine, drinking wine and cooking the Duck, while Christine, Mary Beth, Isbeckie, Laguardia had to find him.  Petrie's wife had gone into labor, or rather, had to have an emergency C-Section, so he was with his wife at the hospital.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, caught the last three episodes that aired last night.

 

The first one, about how this mortician would find out about how rich the dead person was, and then send his goons to clean the place out. Didn't really keep my attention. Except for how annoying I found the daughter who was in a wheelchair, and who kept bitching at Christine and the rest for being incompetents because they couldn't find her bike.  And that subplot of how Harvey hired the cleaning lady for Mary Beth. I suppose it's a television trope, but I really hate it--where the person being hired to be the housekeeper, cleaning person, makes demands on what days it's convenient for them to do the work, or what they need to do the work, and how the ones who are doing the hiring, be it Harvey/Mary Beth on this show, or Angela on Who's the Boss?, meekly listen and acquiesce. It just irriates me.

 

Then the second episode; a little bit better, but again, it didn't really keep my attention, except for the Harvey subplot, and that I would have liked to have seen more of the flashback of the jewel thief, Grand. Of course he got away! Anyhoo, I don't think I liked Harvey in this one. Was he telling Sandra that he would have had sex with her, if not for the fact that he was married? Or was his "I can't!" supposed to mean, I can't because I'm married AND because I LOVE Mary Beth and would never do that to her?  And was his "I love you Mary Beth" when they were watching television, a way to erase his guilt for being tempted? It was all so very confusing. Or maybe I missed something. Why did Harvey meet with her again?

 

And for some reason, I remember the name of the last episode, "Affirmative Action" and I am convinced that the reason I dislike Talia Balsam so much is not because the characters she's played on Law & Order were so smug and superior. It's how the actress plays each and every character on each and every show! (she's appeared on the L&O spin-offs, and the ex-wife of what'shisface from Without A Trace, and I think she also appeared on Hill Street Blues.

 

I was peeved that Samuels felt he had to say/agree to her transfer due to a "personality conflict" when the truth was, she wasn't a good cop. Jumping to conclusions, making assumptions instead of, you know, actually, investigating and knowing how to read people.  I hate to say this, but she deserved that beat down she got. Because she was miffed, or felt, as a matter of pride, she had to go out, like a female Dirty Harry and get the collar for herself?

 

And I did love how at one point, out of sheer frustration, Mary Beth had to set her straight. Not that it did any good, because Turner (Balsam) went ahead and did what she wanted anyway.

[DXD526]

I really liked the Albert Grand episode. I had forgotten about him, but he was a good rival for Chris. The two continue to play cat and mouse, IIRC, so he'll be back.

 

The little brat with the bike, though, she was obnoxious. I remembered that ep, and was wondering if I'd find that kid as bratty and unreasonable as I had recalled, and I did. Ungrateful little whiner. It isn't easy to make the disabled thoroughly unlikable, but they managed.

[Bastet]

I like the episode with the girl and her bike, precisely because she is so abrasive, instead of it being yet another story where a person with a disability is some saintly sweet and self-sacrificing caricature of a person.

 

And, yes, I love Albert Grand as an ongoing foil for Christine.  They could have even gone back to that well a third time and I'd have been fine with it.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really liked the Albert Grand episode. I had forgotten about him, but he was a good rival for Chris. The two continue to play cat and mouse, IIRC, so he'll be back.

 

The little brat with the bike, though, she was obnoxious. I remembered that ep, and was wondering if I'd find that kid as bratty and unreasonable as I had recalled, and I did. Ungrateful little whiner. It isn't easy to make the disabled thoroughly unlikable, but they managed.

 

That's good to know! Since I thought, that's it? So, a loss for my girls!

 

I know, right? And her entire attitude--as if it was the police's fault her home got robbed, or that her bike should be the MOST IMPORTANT thing, and that no other cases existed, and therefore, the cops should have concentrated on trying to find her bike.  She looked old enough to understand, that just with cars that are stolen, and chopped up, that the same could happen to her bike, considering how expensive it was, or rather, the type of bike it was.  And no, her being all nice and appreciative at the end didn't make up for her obnoxiousness during the entire episode.

[DXD526]

Watching these early episodes again, it's interesting how much Lacey's character changed. In the first eps, she was a sarcastic, chain-smoking wiseass. The cigs disappeared pretty quickly and the attitude was taken down a few notches, too. Sometimes she acts like she's afraid of Samuels, always addressing him by his title when everyone else, including Cagney, calls him by his name. At least she still screams at perps! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I dunno. Mary Beth has always referred to Samuels as "Sir."

 

That said, I just finished watching the episodes from Sunday, and I don't know how much more I can take. It's not enough to tell myself that it was the early 80s.  I guess I can accept the men's attitudes about rape, but not the women's. NOT when they are prosecuting attorneys or cops.  I was especially disappointed in Christine's attitude--not just in the "Open and Shut" episode, where the convictions of the four men who had gang raped Elizabeth, but the attitude that she had to testify against each and every one, otherewise the ADA would issue a bench warrant to force her to testify, and Christine's attitude that she HAD to do it.  That Elizabeth, at the end, decided she would, for the first, is beside the point.

 

I also didn't like how Mary Beth was shown to be an incompetent cop in the murder/not murder case, and I wanted to punch the ADA in that case, in the face. Repeatedly. Along with the judge's and defense attorney's.

 

"Jane Doe" was slightly better. Probably because it wasn't a case that dealt with rape. Or sexism.

 

Then there was "Date Rape" and that episode just infuriated me. Again, not only Samuels's, but the entire department, and especially Christine's.  Mary Beth seemed to be the only one who took the case seriously.  And don't get me started on the guys hiring a prostitute to get back at Samuels.  And it took until the end of the episode for Mary Beth to threaten to report them, because what they'd done was a crime.

 

Just gross. I swear, I don't remember any of these early episodes. I think I started watching right before Mary Beth got pregnant.

[Jaded]

I DVR the episodes to watch later due to a commercial that airs locally during just about every other break. I'm a bit backlogged to I've been watching the first 3 episodes of the 3rd season since I can't sleep. I'm on the 3rd episode now "Victimless Crime". Christine's hair is back to normal in this episode but it looked like she had on a bad wig in the previous one about the strike called "A Killer's Dozen". The wig was so bad that I kept getting distracted from the actual storyline. I kept wondering what was going on at the time that forced her to have to wear it or if it was by choice. 

 

I didn't normally watch This TV so I missed seeing the pilot movie by a couple hours. I've caught all the actual episodes though since I caught the first one the night this channel started airing the show. I didn't mind Meg Foster as Chris and think the circumstances of how she was let go are absolutely awful. I'll admit to liking it better with Sharon Gless though and that the story structure kind of changed along with a new Christine. I hope that last part makes sense.

My Mom watched Cagney & Lacey when I was young and liked it but at that time I didn't really realize what was going on due to my age. The memories I always had of the show was that there were two female detectives, one of them I always remembered saying "Harvey!" in a funny way and the theme song after the first season. My Mom passed away late last year and watching this show makes me think of her and sometimes watching the opening makes me cry because it's something I remember from when I was young, happy and didn't have worries like I do now. I remember seeing some of the reunion movies in the 90's but don't remember much about them and never really caught the show in reruns before this. I could have sworn it was rerun on Lifetime but the wiki for that channel doesn't say it of course that doesn't mean anything because I know Lifetime ran Spenser for Hire too and it's not listed there either. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just how many times did the show recast Petrie's wife? It was the same actress for most of the first three seasons; we saw the original actress in the episode where the engagement ring he bought her was stolen; then two or three episodes later, the one where Sharon Gless was wearing that awful wig--all the uniforms striking, as well as Petrie, we had a different actress--but she had appeared earlier that season as the woman who was gang raped and she had to testify against them again; and now, in the Fourth season premeire, recast again, when Petrie was jumped and attacked by uniforms that say they only got rough with him because they saw his piece and not his shield. Which had me rolling my eyes, because they attacked him before that, and wouldn't listen to him, or his wife, and then threw him on the ground and that's when they saw his holster and gun.

 

I have to admit I was disappointed he dropped the charges. I was hoping someone else would have come forward or something.

 

I did get a kick out of the episode that starred Tyne's then husband, George Stanford Brown as the DA.

 

Did we ever see this Neil person who might have been the father of Christine's baby, if she had ended up pregnant?  And I don't think she knew he was married, did she?

[Bastet]

I only remember two Claudia Petries -- the one who had also played the rape victim, and was only Claudia in one episode, and then the rest of the time, the late Vonetta McGee, Carl Lumbly's real-life wife.  But checking IMDb, I see there was a third actor, who played her in a couple of early episodes.  I've completely forgotten her!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I only remember two Claudia Petries -- the one who had also played the rape victim, and was only Claudia in one episode, and then the rest of the time, the late Vonetta McGee, Carl Lumbly's real-life wife.  But checking IMDb, I see there was a third actor, who played her in a couple of early episodes.  I've completely forgotten her!

 

Yeah, we saw the first Claudia in the first season during that baby shower, and she went all jealous, insecure and crying over Petrie working with 'women' detectives; then when she had the baby, and the last time, in the episode I referenced above--when Samuels, LaGuardia, Petrie, Mary Beth and Christine were robbed by those punks dressed up as mobsters from the 20s.

 

And can I say, I seem to have forgotten what a great guy/cop Isbecki actually was.  I think I saw The Karate Kid before I started watching, and so his performance as the EVUHL Sensei was preventing me from seeing how funny  he was. And that he wasn't such a bad guy.  I think the people we were supposed to not like/hate were the Deputy Commissioner? and his PR guy, who kept thinking that Christine and Mary Beth didn't have anything better to do, but do press for the precinct.  He's played by that actor, who played Ruben on Remington Steele, who set up Remington, to sell the agency and who was framed for stealing those diamonds. I'm blanking on the episode's name, but it was where Laura thought he could have done a long con, and he really did go to the club, stake the agency, lost it gambling, etc.

[DXD526]

This show took a couple of seasons to really hit its stride, but it's reached the point, by S3, where every episode is pretty solid. It took a while; it's a good thing the viewers fought to keep it on the air in those early days. 

 

For me, the turning point was the bounty hunter episode. Nice interaction on the case between Chris and Marybeth, who really began jelling together, a good subplot with the Lacey family, two interesting storylines, and even Brian Dennehy at his smarmy best. The show has stayed pretty good ever since.

 

Some of the early episodes, though...wow. Marybeth basically taking the side of a wife beater, because he was a cop? Huh?? They show up at his house as he's smacking his wife around, and Marybeth warns him that he better turn himself in by the next day. Or what, she'll be really, really mad? At least they removed the wife, but to not arrest him? Hello 1983. And as far as that, I love the forensics lab early on. In one episode, "forensics" consisted of blowing up a photograph! That area may be the single thing that most dates this show now. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

And Season 3 only had 7 episodes! Either that, or THis didn't air the 8th episode.

 

In addition to Mary Beth siding with the friend/fellowcop/abusive piece of shit, it was difficult for me to watch season 2 when Chris was basically bullying the rape victim to testify again against her rapist(s). And even in season 3, not thinking porn was a crime worth charging.

 

I really like Michael Madsen, so I was sad that he had to play a bad guy.

 

Oh! And I forgot to mention how much I liked Mary Beth's mother-in-law and was pleasantly surprised to learn she didn't resent Mary Beth for being a working mother, and that both of them actually like and respect each other. I wasn't sure at the beginning of that episode, with her being up early and already having made pancakes for breakfast for Michael and Harvey, Junior, etc.

 

But it's really difficult for me to watch a lot of the early episodes, and I have to keep telling myself, it's the 80s, it's the 80s...

 

But I still love Mary Beth. I suspect it has to do with my love for Tyne Daly. I just love her.

[Bastet]

Yeah, I enjoyed that Mary Beth liked her mother-in-law -- has that ever happened on TV? -- and got annoyed with everyone assuming she'd be miserable to have her come stay with them. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I had to think about that, and you know what? I can't think of a single show I've ever watched where mother-in-laws and daughters-in-law liked each other....Oh, wait!

 

Dallas. Both Sue Ellen and Pamela loved Miss Ellie and vice versa. Other than that, I'm drawing a blank.
 

[DXD526]

Three solid S4 episodes this week. The writing is consistently good and the characters are more like I remember them.

 

Isbecki was obviously very uncomfortable with his girlfriend Bon Bon Le Chocolat showing up at work. Loved C&L's reactions: Lacey extending a hand and saying in her best Brooklyn accent "How ya doin', Miss Chocolat?", and Cagney giving the widest, toothiest smile ever!

 

Also loved Cagney up in the middle of the night, poring over the statute of limitations law, in a text book! It was '84, still years away from being able to look that up online. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I like how Chris was written when played by Meg Foster, and really resent the whole "we need to soften one of them up; they come across as dykes" debacle that followed. 

I think the first season just played the characters much differently, and the Chris Cagney as written for Meg Foster was a much different animal than the one written for Sharon Gless.  Also, if you ever do see the first season credits on YouTube, there is a scene where Cagney and Lacey are getting their badges, and give each other a look.  I remember thinking that had this been a television show that came out twenty or so years later, that would have been the point where they totally started making out with each other.    

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, I didn't see a media thread, so I'm dropping these in here, because I LOVED seeing Sharon and Tyne together post-Cagney and Lacey. This was in 2007 on The Graham Norton Show, and when the first year dvd came out. Some of it is stupid stuff, like the 'dramatization' of real folks playing Chris and Mary Beth, but I love seeing these two together.

 

Part II:

 

[Bastet]

I hope I haven't told this story here before (I know I did at TWoP):  Many moons ago, I went to a charity event hosted by Feminist Majority Foundation and as we milled around the DGA before it was time to enter the auditorium itself, I spotted Tyne Daly and her family (her mom and at least one of her daughters) nearby.  This was cool enough, but when I heard her say to her mom, "I talked to Gless; she's coming," I grabbed my friend's arm and proceeded to freak my shit. 

When Sharon arrived, Tyne went over to greet her, and the press line went nuts getting photos of them together.  There were much bigger stars there that night, but they got the biggest reaction from the assembled media.  It warmed my heart. 

[DXD526]

What dates this show more than the fact that Marybeth is hugely pregnant and has no idea about the sex of her baby! I had forgotten that parents knowing if they're having a boy or girl is a medical advancement made in my lifetime. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

What dates this show more than the fact that Marybeth is hugely pregnant and has no idea about the sex of her baby! I had forgotten that parents knowing if they're having a boy or girl is a medical advancement made in my lifetime. 

Only if you are in your 60s or 70s.  Ultrasound technology has been around since the 1950s. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm wondering if I should be glad I was ignorant of all the issues when this show first aired. Watching it now, and even though I love Tyne/Sharon as Marybeth and Christine, I'm having some difficulty watching some of the episodes where they don't think it's worth it to investigate a rape, because lack of evidence, or that other cases are more important, like murder, robbery, etc. Or that Christine is okay with lying to get the "guy" (even if she stopped Marybeth from lying for her at the last minute). Or on the flip side, how much disrespect female officers got. We're in the fifth season now, which means, 1986? 1987? So, I guess it's the way things were?

I did like the episode where the male teen was raped in jail. Not that I liked that part of it, but that from the synopsis, you didn't know that it wasn't a female teen. And wow, how his father, while suing the police department, was angry that his son being raped made him a "fag." And that word was bleeped out.

Marybeth's breast cancer storyline hit very close to home for me. Oh would that I could have had a lumpectomy, and I won't like, I screamed "Rudy!!!*" when I saw the actor who played the surgeon who she went to for a second opinion.

I'm finding I like Marybeth a whole lot more than Christine, sometimes.  Though I did find myself getting all worked up during her sexual harrassment case. On her behalf.  Did they recast the Deputy whatever? All of a sudden, I'm seeing this white dude, who always plays a skeevy character, smarmy politician or a mob flunkie.  He's that shrink from Scarecrow & Mrs. King who tried to brainwash Lee into killing Billy. Michael Fairman, I believe.

Though I admit, I did laugh when Christine said that Marybeth's child number 3 might be "the bad seed," and Marybeth gasped and accused Christine of cursing the baby and demanded that Christine take it back. It was a silly scene, but Tyne was just so funny.  

Sorry, I'm all over the place, but I also wanted to see Christine take that new detective to the cleaners. I wanted to see his face REALLY fall.

I don't mind being spoiled, but can someone @DXD526 or @Bastet tell me if Marybeth had a third boy or was it a daughter?

*From Six Million Dollar Man and The Bionic Woman.

Edited June 14, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[Bastet]

A daughter, Alice Christine.

[Crs97]

I loved that Chris always referred to the baby by her full name with a big smile when she said Christine.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I was going to come in here and start complaining about the newest addition to the precinct, Newman, because it appears he replaced Laguardia. But I did a quick search on imdb first, and now I understand why. That sweet man passed away from cancer in October 1985, which was early in the fifth season. I was wondering what happened to him, and since his passing was so sudden, I guess the show didn't say anything about him? Of if they did, the network I'm watching the show on now, cut it out. 

I was all set to rant about why the show felt the need to bring in someone new who had feelings for Christine, etc. But no need for it now. 

Though I did find myself cringing and hoping that David (Stephen Macht), the lawyer that Christine is seeing, had the sense to use condoms, since he was sleeping with both Christine and that twit in the Christmas episode, who was overseeing some hearing about police brutality and always said, in a simpering voice: "You're riiiight, David. You're sooooo right." Blech. I was disgusted by her just as Christine was. Considering that AIDS finally was in the conscientiousness of America by this point. Since this season was during the time that Rock Hudson had died of it.

[Bastet]

I love David, the ACLU lawyer; he's probably my favorite of Christine's boyfriends.  (Unlike Mary Beth, I wasn't clamoring for them to get married or anything, mind you, I just liked the relationship while it lasted.)

They left La Guardia alive and well on the show, just retired him off-screen (living with a younger woman) and making occasional references to him, and kept Sidney Clute in the credits all the way through.

Crs97, I also got a kick out of Cagney's way of referring to her namesake.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, Bastet said:

I love David, the ACLU lawyer; he's probably my favorite of Christine's boyfriends.  (Unlike Mary Beth, I wasn't clamoring for them to get married or anything, mind you, I just liked the relationship while it lasted.)

They left La Guardia alive and well on the show, just retired him off-screen (living with a younger woman) and making occasional references to him, and kept Sidney Clute in the credits all the way through.

Agreed! I just love Stephen Macht. I think it's because the first thing I ever saw him in was an after school special movie about S.A.A.D., and he played the teacher who helped to sponsor it. And of course I've seen him in other shows, Highlander, Scarecrow & Mrs. King, off the top of my head. Hated his character on General Hospital, but didn't watch too much of it, since I stopped watching that dreck.

That's nice to know. I swear, I don't remember them saying that about him retiring. It's like he was there in one episode, and then just...gone. Having Clute in the credits is what prompted me to get ready to rant, because I hadn't seen him since the end of Season 4.

[Bastet]

You may not have missed anything; they didn't do a big announcement, and didn't mention him for a while after he disappeared, just later tossing in casual references to him loving retired life with his young girlfriend.