Santa Barbara - General Discussion

[Prairie Rose]

Even though Jeffrey wasn't my favorite of Kelly's love interests (Dane Witherspoon's Joe Perkins was), I found Ross Kettle quite charming and a solid actor. He and Robin worked quite well together. Both were nominated for the Younger Actor/Actress Daytime Emmys in 1988 - his first nomination and her third.

Remember when even being nominated for a Daytime Emmy meant something? Robin's category was always an embarrassment of riches. Even though she never won, her competition was fierce and to this day makes its mark in entertainment. The three actresses Robin lost the Emmy to in 1986, 1987 and 1988 were Ellen Wheeler, Martha Byrne and Julianne Moore. 

One of my all-time favorite Kelly scenes with Robin came from 1987, when she confronted a wheelchair-bound Eden about snapping out of her pity party and to stop shutting Cruz out. RW played the scene as emotional but not over the top, with not so much anger but sisterly love. Neither she nor Marcy Walker missed a beat. They taught a master class in that scene, and showed how far RW had come from the show's beginning. Despite the insane chemistry she and Dane had from the outset (both on and off camera), she was pretty green as a performer through SB's first year or so.

Years after SB, Robin and Mark Arnold (Joe #2) were reunited in Blade Runner 2049. Mr. Arnold discussed that experience in one of Alan Locher's YouTube chats, as well as unexpectedly reuniting with A Martinez in England pre-pandemic. Definitely worth checking out.

[BingeyKohan]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:59 PM, Prairie Rose said:

Speaking of 1988, am I the only one who actually enjoyed the Pebble Creek wedding costumes? Though I have to give a hard PASS on Eden's wedding garb. Her ensemble in the disrupted Orient Express Capwell Hotel nuptials in 1985 looked so much better.

I am sure they felt a creative burden to make it super special and high concept because it was the long delayed wedding of their #1 star crossed supercouple but even as a preteen I thought antebellum looks were a weird choice for coastal California. i always wondered what the style of the wedding dress Eden lost when it blew off the cliff would have been. And i guess they felt they couldn't do something too similar to what Kelly and Jeffrey had had which sort of capitalized on Robin Wright's Princess Bride notoriety. So instead they made Eden an out-of-nowhere Southern Belle bride.

[Prairie Rose]

All things considered, it was a beautiful outdoor ceremony. I also like how the wedding episodes, and before that, the bachelor/bachelorette parties, were treated with care. 

Of course, later in 1988 came the brutal rape of Eden and her subsequent pregnancy (though I wonder if the latter would have happened if MW hadn't been pregnant in real life). Those episodes were really well-written and both Marcy and A did an incredible job enacting such an ugly occurrence, but having the baby delivered in a cave and then kidnapped to Paris was really too much. I'm surprised Eden's mind didn't snap right then in 1989, rather than 1991 when Ms. Walker was leaving the show.

[cleo]

So I'm not really watching the Cain stuff but this girl pretends.to be his daughter and then tries to seduce him? Is that right? Can't believe people seriously think this stuff is good, I'll never get over that lol.

The actor playing Michael and NLG had pretty good chemistry. 

[Bali]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:15 PM, cleo said:

So I'm not really watching the Cain stuff but this girl pretends.to be his daughter and then tries to seduce him? Is that right? Can't believe people seriously think this stuff is good, I'll never get over that lol.

The actor playing Michael and NLG had pretty good chemistry. 

Yep, that's what happened. I think that 88 is garbage. I love Lane Davies, but Sonny is getting old fast. And poor Julia. I'm right at the called off wedding now. Gina just saw Bunny in a dress for the first time. 

Things I'm hating: Julia constantly suffering. Cain always yelling. Bozwell's existence. Lydia. Major Hamilton. All of the Donnellys. TJ and his anger issues. Gee, TJ you choose to only date married women then get mad when they choose their husband. 

Things I am enjoying: The return of Augusta (even though the character is a bit different). CC and Sophia on their shakeout or whatever at Pop's Place. Augusta/Gina/Sonny is funny. Augusta calling out Mason for being so middle class and actually wondering WHY? I mean she's the only one questioning this. Brandon is awesome as always. 

Everything else is just there. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Bali
Edited to add

[Bali]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:46 PM, Prairie Rose said:

Of course, later in 1988 came the brutal rape of Eden and her subsequent pregnancy (though I wonder if the latter would have happened if MW hadn't been pregnant in real life). Those episodes were really well-written and both Marcy and A did an incredible job enacting such an ugly occurrence, but having the baby delivered in a cave and then kidnapped to Paris was really too much. I'm surprised Eden's mind didn't snap right then in 1989, rather than 1991 when Ms. Walker was leaving the show.

What is OTT for me is that Eden delivered that baby in a cave a mere 3 months after the conception. Anytime THAT happens in a movie, the baby turns out to be the spawn of something not quite human. Lol! 

Ahh soap opera pregnancies. Amy was pregnant forever. (And we won't go into that conception). Eden 3 months. Sophia ended her affair with Lionel because he was married, gets with CC immediately after. Ignores the fact that CC was also married (or wasn't depending on what year), waits for CC to get divorced, or not, and has Channing who is really Brick. I wonder just how long she was pregnant. 

[Prairie Rose]

2 minutes ago, Bali said:

Ahh soap opera pregnancies. Amy was pregnant forever. (And we won't go into that conception). 

New Stailand!!!! Richard Eden even said on FB that it was the stupidest plot he had ever acted out. When Amy was introduced, it seemed that her trajectory was going to go in a different direction, though I believe pairing her with Brick was always part of the plan.

Then came the pregnancy with all its implausible (yes, even for a soap!) twists and turns. I doubt they would have gone through any of it if Kerry Sherman hadn't been pregnant in real life (and she got so large I doubt they could have hidden it).

[cleo]

Yes the Donnellys and TJ suck although I will never buy that TJ and Jeffrey decide to kill Kelly - I think that's what happens?

Sonny- meh I know an awful lot about childhood trauma, PTSD, dissociation, and DID and the Sonnny stuff is almost offensive but more just blindingly stupid. 

Eden/Lisa was slightly more believable/better done although even that was not super close to reality. 

New Stailand- never could watch that lol. I'm not a big stoner but there are parts of this show where I think the only way I could watch it is really high lol. Just too ridiculous.

Edited June 17, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:52 PM, cleo said:

Not sure why Ross Kettle left. He grew on me quite a bit. 

My guess is that he left because he spent too much time sitting in a wheelchair drooling on himself and got bored!

I mean why Why WHY did they do that? Was not the Maggie Ellis story enough to show that vegatative state people are not enjoyable to watch. 

I only put up with CCs never ending coma because I knew Jed Allan was at the end of it. 

[cleo]

So I finally got to the eps where that actress was playing Kelly- the one in between RW and CG. 

She is fine. She seems like a fine actress. Like good enough? I assume fans were upset when RW left. 

ETA although again I don't really care about Kelly so whatever actress is fine with me lol. I probably like CG better simply bc that was who was playing Kelly when I started watching. Although it took her a while to really improve in the role imo.

Edited June 30, 2022 by cleo

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, cleo said:

So I finally got to the eps where that actress was playing Kelly- the one in between RW and CG. 

Kimberly MacArthur.

[Hiyo]

I remember at the time not being too impressed with KM when she showed up. 
 

I did like CG, I do remember that. I also liked how she rewembled MW, they definitely looked more like siblings than any of the other Kellys we ever saw on the show.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Hiyo

[cleo]

Yes I definitely think she most resembled MW. They really did look like sisters.

[cleo]

So this whole storyline with TJ and Kelly and Sophia and Jeffrey just sucks. Sophia acts like a major bitch towards TJ. Like he was trying to save your daughter's life yo.

And Kelly for some reason doesn't love Jeffrey anymore? Sort of lost the plot about why. I want to say Jeffrey you can do better.

One reason I don't like Kelly is she just flits from one man to another. 

Got me thinking about Ted- I like Ted but he is like a stereotypical rich kid that has never had to work and flits from one endeavor to the next, knowing if it flops he can just move on to the next thing.

And then like I said before- I didn't like his initial relationship with either Christie or the other one who he thought was a maid at first. Sorry I can't remember names.

(In case it isn't obvious Eden is my favourite character followed probably by Mason and Julia).

That being said- I saw Marj Dusay's closing episode when she is in jail, and overall I enjoyed the arc with her and descent into craziness. SF could never have pulled that off. 

And in spite of the above about Eden being my favourite, I hate fertility/pregnancy/ baby stories, so like the next year with her is just not my thing.

Normally I would take a break from watching round about now, but I want to finish 1988, bc I had watched some 1989 with Barr a few months ago and I want to get thru 1988 so I can go back to where I was in 1989. 

Maybe that sounds convoluted lol.

Oh my last thought- still enjoying Keith and Gina a lot more now than when they first got together. Crazy kids, gonna suck when he leaves.

Edited July 5, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

There was no plot about why Kelly didn't love Jeffrey anymore. Just suddenly- she didn't. Kind of similar to her mother who just poof didn't love CC. Kelly lost the baby then buh bye Jeffrey. I'm going to cling to mom's lover who I hated until literally YESTERDAY!!! 

The saddest part is that it takes so long to get better.

[cleo]

I skipped a ton the last week or so, it was all boring imo lol. 

I made it to Zack Kelton's first episode. I'm not going to watch his scenes but I will try to watch the aftermath of the rape. I never saw that storyline.

It was neat to see when Cruz and Eden switched to the nice house, and to see how Cruz got Chip- sort of. 

[Bali]

I've made it through 88 and a fair chunk into 89. CC is retired, writing his autobiography with THAT woman who was SO wonderful in bed he doesn't remember her. 

Adriana is with Cruz'  brother for some dumbass reason. This plot is making New Stailand seem GREAT! 

Carrington Garland just had her first episode. 

[cleo]

Right there with you lol. Terrible with a capital T. I will NEVER get over people trying to tell me 1988 and 89 were the best.

[Bali]

I will say that Brandon is AWESOME in his storyline. That was something that workef from this time period. 

88 and 89 the best? Not to me. Block voting helped a lot. 

[Hiyo]

Just curious, what do people consider to be the good years of this show? And the best/Golden Era?

[cleo]

I can only say what I liked, which is very specific periods: 

85 to fall 87- I basically feel like the show has good aspects from the start in 1984 but also missteps. So I would say I like this period 1985 onwards is very good, up until- from the moment Elena dies in fall of 1987 the show gradually deteriorates to me. The only exception is maybe the Mason/julia storylines, and I did enjoy the story with Pamela returning overall. 

I basically hate 1988 and it does not improve for me until fall 1989 when Robert is back, bc I love me some Robert Barr. 

And then my viewing is spotty- I've never seen most of 1990, but I hope to. 

I enjoy 1991, I have the UO of liking the Lisa storyline- up until Eden went over the cliff and AFAIC the show did as well at that point. I abandoned it in the middle of that Suzanne mess.

[Bali]

I'm definitely an 85-87 person. 88 is painful and drove me away the first time. The Cruz/Eden/Adriana kidnapping mess of 89 is NOT the best. But I am truly enjoying the return of Mason, the story with Lisa (both Tea Leoni and Tawny K. I loved Brandon finding out about his adoption. 

[Bali]

I think that was written well and the acting was very good. 

[Bali]

On 1/31/2022 at 1:09 PM, cleo said:

Yeah so far there isn't much in 1988 I would ever rewatch except for maybe Marj Dusay's scenes bc I like her so much.  

But I'm only on Feb. I've never seen 88 before.

NLG said in a recent podcast that she and LD didn't talk for like 8 months and no one knew it bc they did some of their best work ever.

Trying to figure out what she thinks their best work ever was. I figure it can't be the baby contract stuff leading up to the affair? Maybe.

What's after, Sonny Sprocket? Find it hard to believe she would think that was their best work.

I'm finally starting the post-Sprocket! 

I have to agree with NLG. The Mason in AA and Julia talking to her dead father about his alcoholism and what it did to her is phenomenal stuff! And you really can't see that they don't like each other. 

[cleo]

I don't know if I can bring myself to watch any of the Sonny Sprocket stuff. Is it any good? It all seems so dumb.

The custody stuff with Chip is also dumb. Cruz you have no case! Such bs. Tori lied on his birth certificate, lied to the natural father, has a documented drug problem, is unemployed with no home, and left him with a stranger who promptly abandoned him.

I dunno if Cruz would get full custody but he absolutely would get partial. 

I know it's a soap, but so mind boggling-ly dumb.

[Bali]

Sprocket is dumb and in no way based on anything in the history of the show. Parts of it are funny (Gina explaining the Capwell family history). But for the most part, if you love Lane it might be worth it for Lane. 

The Chip custody is really stupid. 88 just isn't good.

That said, The alcoholism is EXCELLENT! And I like the DiNapoli sisters much more than I thought I would. 

[WendyCR72]

I believe it was the alcoholism story and Julia's talk with her deceased alcoholic father that won NLG her Emmy in 1989.

And yeah, Lane and Nancy, during their joint interview in the now-defunct Soap Opera Weekly when he joined GH, touched on their rocky period at Santa Barbara. At least it sounded like they had long buried the hatchet and were able to work together again.

[cleo]

@Bali  thanks. I figured I would watch parts of it here and there and skip the rest.

Celeste was ok. I found Lisa irritating. It'd a shame they couldn't keep Tea Leoni in that role though.

ETA @WendyCR72  yeah I know NLG has said that story was important to her bc her father irl was an alcoholic 

Edited August 3, 2022 by cleo

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, cleo said:

ETA @WendyCR72  yeah I know NLG has said that story was important to her bc her father irl was an alcoholic 

Yep, I recall reading that. Interestingly, if I recall, the actor playing Julia's dad in the alcoholism arc was a different actor than who played him prior. Julia's father (probably in other flashbacks, as I recall seeing him, but do not think he appeared in the flesh) had originally been played by William Schallert, best known from The Patty Duke Show.

[Bali]

Hate Greg. Hate the teens on the beach even more!!! 

I would rather go back to Sonny Sprocket than illiterate Missy and the teens on the beach.

[cleo]

Agreed. I could not make it through any of his scenes, or Megan's. 

They shouldve brought Brick back instead.

Edited August 4, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

24 minutes ago, cleo said:

Agreed. I could not make it through any of his scenes, or Megan's. 

They shouldve brought Brick back instead.

Agreed!! I don't hate the Greg actor, but the storylines are just so insulting!

[cleo]

I would've paid good money to see the expression on LD's face after he was off doing Shakespeare all summer and came back to the Sonny Sprocket script.

[Bali]

On 8/7/2022 at 3:17 PM, cleo said:

I would've paid good money to see the expression on LD's face after he was off doing Shakespeare all summer and came back to the Sonny Sprocket script.

He had to have been thinking "Why am I being punished?" And also WTF.

I do have some sympathy for the writers though. Mason would be an extremely difficult character to write for. You would have to know Shakespeare, classic literature, poetry, law, and be able to capture that dry humor. 

[Bali]

Mason to Julia 1989. Welp, we done got hitched. Let's jump out of an airplane. 

My husband is SO lucky he never tried that.

[cleo]

I feel like most of that relationship was misery. First the endless saga with Julia/Mason/Victoria. 

Then move right into (I think)- the convent thing and he disappears/dies. Then he comes back as Sonny and that is angst. Then the alcoholism and he is gone for long periods of time bc of Robert.

I like NLG, I think she is a good actress, but Julia's constant angst wore me out. 

I will say I thought Mason was really written out of character in 89....like the cheating with Sasha, I don't know. I just didn't buy it. 

[WendyCR72]

15 hours ago, Bali said:

Mason to Julia 1989. Welp, we done got hitched. Let's jump out of an airplane. 

My husband is SO lucky he never tried that.

And when they remarried, they practically had the same honeymoon again (with GT as Mason of course!).

Even the second proposal (which Julia finally answered later in Vegas during the Sonny Sprocket callback) involved a barn and pitchfork, like LD's Mason proposed. (Before the official beach proposal. )

[Bali]

23 hours ago, cleo said:

I feel like most of that relationship was misery. First the endless saga with Julia/Mason/Victoria. 

Then move right into (I think)- the convent thing and he disappears/dies. Then he comes back as Sonny and that is angst. Then the alcoholism and he is gone for long periods of time bc of Robert.

I like NLG, I think she is a good actress, but Julia's constant angst wore me out. 

I will say I thought Mason was really written out of character in 89....like the cheating with Sasha, I don't know. I just didn't buy it. 

Well, Cruz and Eden were the same. CC didn't approve, then Eden married Kirk, Cruz married Santana, Kirk was scary, Eden on the Mountain, Eden paralyzed, Elena, infertility surgery, rape, 3 month pregnancy, Adriana missing, Cruz and his brother issues...

[Bali]

11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

And when they remarried, they practically had the same honeymoon again (with GT as Mason of course!).

Even the second proposal (which Julia finally answered later in Vegas during the Sonny Sprocket callback) involved a barn and pitchfork, like LD's Mason proposed. (Before the official beach proposal. )

If someone pushed me out of a perfectly good plane, they wouldn't have a chance to do it twice. 

[cleo]

I don't really think Cruz and Eden were the same. I mean yeah there was the usual soap angst but there were days and days and days of sappiness in bw all that. Nauseating sappiness tbh. In fact I remember LD making jokes about it, hoe Marcy and A would get these easy scripts of just making googly eyes at each other lol.

There are other differences as well, I mean I think the overall length of time together was more. And the later stories- the infertility, kidnapping, rape- they were stories they went through as a couple while a lot of M/J was them not being a couple or being apart- bc of Victoria, or Sonny, or the convent thing, etc.

But jmo. I know a lot of people hated Eden and Cruz as a couple and Eden as a character.

ETA to me, the influence of LD on the storyline is clear, bc he was really opposed to being in a long term soap couple AFAIK. It's kind of a shame that he didnt think that could be interesting. Whereas I think Marcy and A were ok with it.

Edited August 11, 2022 by cleo

[Bali]

I finally got to see the Capwell Zone. Must have been some good drugs to inspire that...

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Bali said:

I finally got to see the Capwell Zone. Must have been some good drugs to inspire that...

Patrick Mulcahey, writer of said episode, wrote it in iambic pentameter, hence the strange speech patterns. Read that in SOD after its broadcast. 

And if I recall, this episode was one of a few submitted that helped SB to win its Emmy for Outstanding Drama Series one year. 

[Bali]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Patrick Mulcahey, writer of said episode, wrote it in iambic pentameter, hence the strange speech patterns. Read that in SOD after its broadcast. 

And if I recall, this episode was one of a few submitted that helped SB to win its Emmy for Outstanding Drama Series one year. 

It was brilliant. It was also bizarre. Things can be both. And "Babies are born; adults are decided" is one of my new philosophies. 

[cleo]

-So LD acting as Sonny pretending to be Masin is really good. Dumb story but it really shows his skill.

- such a shame they decided to destroy the characters of Jeffrey and Cain. Two good characters and they just threw them under the bus

- Re Critter. This is before the rape. I don't get it- he took Eden hostage at the station and then after she said it was all an act and he was lying?

I didn't think I skipped any of those scenes but I couldn't follow what happened.

[WendyCR72]

Michelle Nicastro (ex-Sasha Schmidt) has her final resting place featured in the latest installment of Hollywood Graveyard. The video mark is at 02:27 for her segment, if you want to check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY5S3OywGcU

[Bali]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:45 PM, cleo said:

-So LD acting as Sonny pretending to be Masin is really good. Dumb story but it really shows his skill.

- such a shame they decided to destroy the characters of Jeffrey and Cain. Two good characters and they just threw them under the bus

- Re Critter. This is before the rape. I don't get it- he took Eden hostage at the station and then after she said it was all an act and he was lying?

I didn't think I skipped any of those scenes but I couldn't follow what happened.

I don't fully remember, because those scenes aren't as interesting to me. But it is something like this:

Eden wanted to be a reporter, but she wasn't remotely qualified, so the stations all said no. But she's stubborn, so she decided to do a report anyway. Whoever she was putting the report on put her in contact with Critter. The cops arrested him and he blamed Eden, so he took her hostage on air. She didn't betray her source, and lied about him being a delinquent to prove that she has journalistic integrity or something dumb. I mean,  Hey Blondie, this dude KILLED your sister-in-law, but by ALL MEANS protect his wretched ass..

[cleo]

Yeah thanks. Some of it still made no sense but not a big deal in the scheme of things.

The actor playing Critter was appallingly bad.

[Bali]

I finally made it to Robert Barr. It is interesting. That said, the episodes I have still have commercials. I had forgotten most of the commercials. Vincent Price selling Tilex was a thing that I forgot entirely. 

Fortunately, Critter isn't around long.

[cleo]

Have you seen the storylines with Barr before? I actually haven't seen all of it. Quite a bit of his story first year, and then his last year. I missed some in the middle.

If I ever finish 1988 I'll start watching the Barr stuff I missed.

[Hiyo]

Some interesting info about Robert Barr, from Charles Pratt Jr at the time.