S03.E08: Wake Up Call

[Sheenieb]

 

Mary Jane hears harsh opinions about her show while sitting in on a journalism lecture. In other events, Patrick’s life seems to be on track until he’s surprised with a family intervention.

 

[mrsbagnet]

A platter of STD tests? That's a new one for me.

I think the dad was wrong to take D'Asia from Patrick. Taking care of her was the one thing keeping him grounded.

So glad Kara told MJ no.

[Noirprncess]

I had mixed feelings about MJ with the college students.  It felt like a remixed version of the conversation between Will McAvoy and 'Lil Miss Ernest college student on The Newsroom.  She did have some good points about the sad state of public (dis)interest in real news vs being spoon-fed negative news or edutainment news.

 

Hey, MJ said, she needed hard facts before she opened the storehouse - thus the platter of STD tests.  Dude had a chance to walk away and choose not to.  I think it's a good idea that people are open and honest about testing and why.  If you choose to be non-exclusive, at least, try to test yourselves as best you can.

 

Patrick needs this intervention whether he wants it or not.  It was sad to see he wasn't being as vigilant as he needs to be to protect his sobriety.  He doesn't seem to get that using any drug that isn't prescribed for you by a medical professional IS drug abuse and puts him on a slippery slope.  A complete no-no for someone like him.  I have a feeling he won't have as much protection as he's had in the past if he stubbornly continues down this path.   Glad to see that while MJ wasn't thanking Tracy for her concern, she didn't completely brush them aside either.

 

Tracy - delusional much?

 

I knew CeCe was gonna be back.  She could be a friend of sorts to MJ, if only she wasn't blackmailing her for cash.

[Ohwell]

The platter of STD tests was new to me, too.  I wonder if this is becoming more common.  

 

Mary Jane taking a picture of the guy when he was sleeping and sending it to Kara was just wrong and creepy.  If I were the guy and found out, that would be the last she'd see of me.  No wonder she hasn't found a man she could be with.  'Cause she's 13.

[Sheenieb]

 

I had mixed feelings about MJ with the college students.  It felt like a remixed version of the conversation between Will McAvoy and 'Lil Miss Ernest college student on The Newsroom.  She did have some good points about the sad state of public (dis)interest in real news vs being spoon-fed negative news or edutainment news.

I didn't watch The Newsroom, but I had mixed feelings as well. The student did have good points, but she was so goddamn humorless that I spent more time rolling my eyes than nodding my head.

 

Which brings me to selling out. That's a concept that I never understood. If you're in a privileged position to do what you love and get paid for it, why is that a problem? Struggling and being broke is silly if you can do better. I could get around MJ being a sellout if she got a big head about being on primetime and didn't care about where she got her start, but that isn't the case. Besides, why must she, or any one else who's been accused of "selling out," be stagnant or move backwards just to prove a point to people who don't know them nor pay their bills?

 

I was fine with the battery of tests. If you're getting down with the get down, it's more relaxing knowing that you're both disease free.

[Ohwell]

MJ had better be careful hanging around CeCe because the woman is dangerous.  I think something awful is going to go down between those two.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Ohwell

[sereion1]

The STD platter was interesting concept, perhaps extreme, but I was cool with it; if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be an issue; especially if you're about to get busy--besides, condoms aren't foolproof.

 

I was fine with the Dad threatening to take D'Asia from Patrick; not only has he just relapsed, but he's in denial, and can easily go back to using harder substances again. She needs some stability, and he can't give that to her when he's high. The father/son dynamic is interesting. It seems that his dad had very high expectations from Patrick, but never lived up to them, which could be why he started using. I do like that the dad never berated him, and praised him when he was doing well. He's just at the end of his rope, and taking D'Asia is the wake-up call Patrick needs.

 

 

. I could get around MJ being a sellout if she got a big head about being on primetime and didn't care about where she got her start, but that isn't the case.

That's who I would define a sellout--someone who've forgotten where they came from after achieving a successful career. MJ may be many things, but sellout isn't one of them. I think the student who called her that will think twice once she lands a job in the media; she was such a tool, and I wish MJ would've put her in her place.  I will say that judging by her speech, MJ is NOT relatable at all.

Edited December 4, 2015 by sereion1

[topanga]

The STD platter was interesting concept, perhaps extreme, but I was cool with it; if you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't be an issue; especially if you're about to get busy--besides, condoms aren't foolproof.

 

I was fine with the Dad threatening to take D'Asia from Patrick; not only has he just relapsed, but he's in denial, and can easily go back to using harder substances again. She needs some stability, and he can't give that to her when he's high. The father/son dynamic is interesting. It seems that his dad had very high expectations from Patrick, but never lived up to them, which could be why he started using. I do like that the dad never berated him, and praised him when he was doing well. He's just at the end of his rope, and taking D'Asia is the wake-up call Patrick needs.

 

That's who I would define a sellout--someone who've forgotten where they came from after achieving a successful career. MJ may be many things, but sellout isn't one of them. I think the student her called her that will think twice once she lands a job in the media; she was such a tool, and I wish MJ would've put her in her place.  I will say that judging by her speech, MJ is NOT relatable at all.

I think many young people, like that outspoken but misguided and rude college student, have no idea what a sell-out is. They call rappers who turn into successful Hollywood actors or music executives sell-outs.  They might call any black executive who networks and socializes with white people a sell-out. In fact, what do they think about the alumni, financial supporters, and administrators that fought hard to keep the doors of Clark open so her black a** would have some place to sit and spout her rhetoric? I'm sure they might consider some of them sell outs, too. 

 

I think the student did make a good point that Mary Jane needs to consider why she's doing what she's doing and if she's still committed to being a voice for the community. Even CeCe of all people was helpful. But I wonder if MJ will be able to handle hosting two shows--and producing one of them. And what about the poor woman who's going to get the boot from TalkBack. Selfish MJ never even mentioned her or that she cared about what this would mean for that lady's career, and she certainly didn't mention keeping her on as a co-host, the way she did Marisol. 

 

 

Mary Jane taking a picture of the guy when he was sleeping and sending it to Kara was just wrong and creepy.  If I were the guy and found out, that would be the last she'd see of me.  No wonder she hasn't found a man she could be with.  'Cause she's 13.

Tee-hee. I liked her scenes with the White Guy (I feel bad that I don't know his name) and Kara. Yes, it was juvenile to send Kara a picture of him in bed, but her morning conversation with Kara was funny and honest. A much more genuine and heartfelt exchange than when MJ was hanging out with her journalism friends at the club. 

 

And Patrick...  My post is already too long, so I'll talk about him later. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by topanga

[Noirprncess]

My problem with folks using (and misusing IMHO) the put down, sellout, is that not one person is willing to work for free. Not even the person using it as a put down towards MJ.

So, conventional thought says, you need the right people to be in positions of some power to make things happen, right?. So exactly how does that work unless a person like MJ works upwards into that position?. So, she did Talk Back, a smaller show with hopes of reaching a greater audience (and salary) in primetime. But, She's a sell out for getting there and making a salary commiserate with the position?. Or is she a sell out for getting there and not immediately shifting into pro-black stories?. What exactly makes her a sell out?

[topanga]

My problem with folks using (and misusing IMHO) the put down, sellout, is that not one person is willing to work for free. Not even the person using it as a put down towards MJ.

So, conventional thought says, you need the right people to be in positions of some power to make things happen, right?. So exactly how does that work unless a person like MJ works upwards into that position?. So, she did Talk Back, a smaller show with hopes of reaching a greater audience (and salary) in primetime. But, She's a sell out for getting there and making a salary commiserate with the position?. Or is she a sell out for getting there and not immediately shifting into pro-black stories?. What exactly makes her a sell out?

Some people just don't get it. I'll never forget after the 2008 DNC meeting when Senator Obama won the Democratic nomination and gave his acceptance speech. Afterwards, Cornell West commented that he was disappointed that Obama's speech didn't include a comment about him overcoming hundreds of years of white supremacy. Umm, did Obama really did to day that? Wasn't it obvious that he was the first brown face in the history of the U.S. to be in that position?Second, he was trying to become President of the U.S., not the president of black people. How would that comment have been received by Middle America?

[sereion1]

Selfish MJ never even mentioned her or that she cared about what this would mean for that lady's career, and she certainly didn't mention keeping her on as a co-host, the way she did Marisol. 

 

 

I think she mentioned Marisol to push Kara's buttons since she hates her, and to get her on board to produce both her shows. I'm glad Kara stood her ground, though. MJ should understand that her family comes first. BTW, wasn't that Nischelle Turner from HLN/CNN hosting "Talk Back"?

 

I think many young people, like that outspoken but misguided and rude college student, have no idea what a sell-out is. They call rappers who turn into successful Hollywood actors or music executives sell-outs

 

...and little do they know that's how hip hop moguls Jay-Z, Diddy, Russell Simmons, and even 50 Cent made their money by going main stream and rubbing elbows with rich white folks--that's called having good business sense and following the money. None of them would have acquired great wealth otherwise.

 

CeCe was a piece a work, but I give her credit for dropping some jewels to Mary Jane regarding her career, and MJ heeds her advice. If she wasn't busying extorting money from her, they could be good friends or at least have mutual respect. For real though, MJ needs to get some blinds the next time she wants to get busy, though. CeCe watching the entire show creep me out.

Edited December 4, 2015 by sereion1

[represent]

 

MJ needs to get some blinds the next time she wants to get busy, though. CeCe watching the entire show creep me out.

True, but the blinds don't help when your getting it on in the pool as well.  And their bodies were very much out of the pool, it wasn't like they were under the water so...

[mrsbagnet]

I don't think CeCe saw them in flagrante. She said she came over early in the morning, so I assumed (hoped?) that she just spotted the guy as he was leaving.

 

Yes, it was juvenile to send Kara a picture of him in bed, but her morning conversation with Kara was funny and honest.

 

I liked that conversation, too. Lisa Vidal is just shining this season.

 

It was nice to see the whole family just leave the table with MJ got on her soapbox about money. They've learned how to deal with her. She sure knows how to ruin any occasion.

[Sheenieb]

 

and little do they know that's Hip Hop Moguls Jay-Z, Diddy, Russell Simmons, and even 50 Cent made their money buy going main stream and rubbing elbows with white folks with money--that's called having good business sense and following the money. None of them would not have acquired great wealth otherwise.

Yup. This goes back to my initial point about selling out. When you're black it's as if you can't win. If you remain stagnant, then you lack business acumen. But if you're smart enough to branch out, then you're selling out. It's a tired put down said mostly by broke people or young, naive teens and young adults.

 

Unrelated to the show, but having or lacking business sense makes me think of the criticisms I read when Carol's Daughter was bought by L'Oreal. I get the argument that an independent black owned business being bought by a corporation is upsetting; mostly because it's regrettable to lose anything black owned, and there's also the fear of product dilution, but would the alternative be any better? It would've been sadder if her business went completely under and she was broke. We don't know the terms of the deal, but hopefully she had a great lawyer to negotiate a sweet deal with L'Oreal in her favor.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Sheenieb

[catrice2]

I forgot to watch or tape it so I missed the part with the students.  Did she willfully go to the bookstore of the blackmaiiler, or did she make her come?  I feel for Patrick, I hope they don't have him go to jail or on a big bender.  He is actually the character that I hope gets himself together the most.  I am glad I apparently missed any scene with Niecy. Oh, Patrick...why couldn't they pursue having his daughter's principal be interested in him and he gets his life together?

 

I'm not sure why Mary Jane was taking advice from someone who tried to blackmail her.  I found the Kara/MJ conversation to be juvenile and just another example of how this show has to hit EVERY stereotype....he was pink, it was not impressive, adequate, whatever was said and as old as she is taking a picture while he is sleeping and sending it to her friend...are they in grade school?  We also have to just refer to him as "white boy?" 

 

I don't watch this all the time, but if I am correct, why is the first time we are shown her running a background check and whipping out the STD platter is when she has decided to be with someone from another race?  

[topanga]

 

I don't watch this all the time, but if I am correct, why is the first time we are shown her running a background check and whipping out the STD platter is when she has decided to be with someone from another race?

According to MJ, she does it with everyone, which means she also would have done it with Cuddy Buddy, David, The old dude, and the married dudue. 

[represent]

 

this show has to hit EVERY stereotype....he was pink, it was not impressive, adequate, whatever was said and as old as she is taking a picture while he is sleeping and sending it to her friend...are they in grade school?  We also have to just refer to him as "white boy?"

I agree, but I guess they are trying to write the show from the perspective of black women with MJ's mentality/experience. They did the same thing in The Best Man Christmas movie, they just had to talk about penis size while talking about Nia Long's character's new boyfriend who was white and why she wouldn't consider marrying him yet. Some dumb shit about how her character isn't ready to give up on the black (insert male genitalia here) I remember rolling my eyes. Along with Taye Diggs character's surprise/shock that she was with a white guy, again, eye roll.

 

Yeah, give it a rest black producers/writers, evolve. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by represent

[candall]

It's good you all are doing the heavy lifting with the discussion about selling out.  I just came to say my jaw dropped when MJ batted her eyelashes at the sex partner, as she presented the platter of tests.  And then she did it again, to her BOSS.

 

I was watching to see if she would flutter her lashes at Kara to woo her back, but no.  For Kara, she made a little hammock with the backs of her hands, dropped her chin on top and looked winsome.  You'll be back!  You know you'll be back!

 

I think this show needs a lot more Loretta Devine.  CeCe's one of the few people MJ interacts with on a straightforward adult level and drops all the "I'm adorably irresistible" mannerisms.  (Including her family.)

 

Oh, and sending the photo to Kara was unconscionable.  If that guy had sneaked a post-coital nude photo of sleeping MJ to show his buddies, there'd be outrage.

[catrice2]

I agree, but I guess they are trying to write the show from the perspective of black women with MJ's mentality/experience. They did the same thing in The Best Man Christmas movie, they just had to talk about penis size while talking about Nia Long's character's new boyfriend who was white and why she wouldn't consider marrying him yet. Some dumb shit about how her character isn't ready to give up on the black (insert male genitalia here) I remember rolling my eyes. Along with Taye Diggs character's surprise/shock that she was with a white guy, again, eye roll.

 

Yeah, give it a rest black producers/writers, evolve. 

Yes, I also remember that moment from the movie and feeling the same way.  Like every black man is the best lover and that NO other man can compete.  i guess I'm confused about what Mary Jane's experience and mentality is supposed to be.  At this point in her career, even if she had not dated a white man, if she is in the position she is in, she would have been in plenty of social situations where others had, more than likely had been propositioned by a few, and as a "investigative" journalist, surely had learned enough to not make herself look this silly with some of the comments that she makes. I mean in general, not just about this issue.  She said something similarly stupid to Mark recently. 

There is nothing wrong with being proud of a race, etc. but if you want to write an intelligent show about an intelligent woman, write an intelligent show.  Personally I think my friends, sisters, etc. and I are very real, black and down to earth...and we don't sit around talking about some of the stuff that is shown here.  I know it is a tv show, I get that, but again, we don't have to break out EVERY single stereotype to make a point.  I love the parts with Mary Jane trying to push forward social issues. It would have been great to explore Lisa's struggle with her mental health (and why did that have to be centered around a man?), and nice to see her deal with her lover's wife in a different manner.   I get you want ratings, etc. but you can also get ratings by showing something different. 

 

If they give "white guy" a back story, I'm sure it will be full of stereotypes as well. There are good things about this show, but there are a lot that make me do a double take and say, really? 

[catrice2]

According to MJ, she does it with everyone, which means she also would have done it with Cuddy Buddy, David, The old dude, and the married dudue. 

So with this thought would that mean that she would have had to keep repeating it?  She and Cuddy Buddy are not exclusive, she knew the old dude was sleeping around, she knew at some point David had a girlfriend when she slept with him, and of course she knew that her married man was still sleeping with his wife.  Even if they were "clean" when she first started dating them, they may not have stayed clean and a condom could break.  How reliable are those things anyway?  Why do I suddenly feel as if I have missed a whole educational piece?   I mean, does she buy them in bulk? 

[represent]

 

So with this thought would that mean that she would have had to keep repeating it?  She and Cuddy Buddy are not exclusive, she knew the old dude was sleeping around, she knew at some point David had a girlfriend when she slept with him, and of course she knew that her married man was still sleeping with his wife.  Even if they were "clean" when she first started dating them, they may not have stayed clean and a condom could break.  How reliable are those things anyway?  Why do I suddenly feel as if I have missed a whole educational piece?   I mean, does she buy them in bulk?

Exactly what I was thinking. Also who's to say when that guy's last sexual encounter was? Hell, he could have had sex with someone else that morning and if he contracted HIV would it show up on a test by that evening? I don't know, I'm asking. Doesn't seem so, since I have actually heard time and time again that the virus can lay dormant in the system for years.

 

I mean isn't that why when one has possibly been exposed they have to go back and be tested a few times over a certain period of months? 

Edited December 5, 2015 by represent

[Ms Blue Jay]

I just want to say to the posters here -- never be worried that your post is too long!  I always wish for more and longer posts in the BMJ threads and I appreciate every single one.  I wish the show was more popular.

 

Talking about selling out I think the discussion is so interesting.  Two things I've been thinking about lately.  I've been watching Master of None where the main character Dev and his acquaintance Ravi are both struggling Indian actors in New York.  Dev (Aziz Ansari) has always refused to use an Indian accent for a character while Ravi is fine with it.  This mirrors the actors' real life practices as well.  But I'd argue that Aziz was able to come up and be successful pretty easily, I'd say.  He was given opportunities that Ravi Patel (the actor playing Ravi) was not.  So for me it's very hard to judge Ravi.

 

I've also been mainlining old episodes of Ally McBeal.  This is the show that shot Lucy Liu to fame.  Lucy played somewhat of a dragon lady - a known Asian female stereotype - though I'd argue the character became a lot more complex than that over time - but now she's a bonafide movie (Charlie's Angels, etc.) and television star (Elementary).  The actor was such a hit with the creator that he created a role just for her, and the character was such a hit with audiences that she was written in as a regular cast member.   I think she broke down so many barriers for Asian (and other minority) actors.  I would never hold against her what she did. 

 

It's all about what you can tolerate from your heroes/fellow minorities you relate, to I guess.  It's a tough discussion and it's very sensitive.  One of my friends refuses to watch Fresh off the Boat because he says the accents are too caricature-ish and offend him.

 

I get extremely offended when I see certain things, for example in the latest Nathan for You episode Nathan Fielder (a white person) did a caricature-esque Asian stereotype accent.  I couldn't believe I was seeing that in 2015.   That's not really a question of selling out or not though; that's just racism.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[Noirprncess]

MsBlueJay, I think Asian actors are experiencing the very same types of stereotypes that black actors ran into. Blackface existed before out finally fell out of favor.

Look at the movie, The Good Earth. Almost all of the lead characters were supposed to be Asian but were played by Caucasian actors in the Asian version of Blackface. During that time period, black actors are either maids or some other version of the help and Asians were portrayed as opium smokers or other shady characters with an accent.

But the question is, until one of them "breaks out" into mainstream, the only parts that exist will continue selling the same troupe. So, is the person that takes those jobs in the hopes of breaking out the sellout or is it the person who, because of mainstream exposure, can afford to turn down stereotypical roles -the sellout?

That goes back to my problem with haphazardly calling folks a sellout. The definition isn't exactly nailed down considering how people use the term.

[Ms Blue Jay]

One of my favourite shows is Seinfeld.  In one of the earlier episodes between 1989-1993 ish period, George actually meets an Asian woman at a party -- who is played by a white actor in stereotypical "Asian" colouring (hair, makeup, etc.)  I will try to take a screencap for you guys!