Eastenders (BBC) - General Discussion

[TeeVee329]

That wasn't the impression I got.

[M. Darcy]

It could be that she never admitted to herself and while she talks to Stacey about it she will come to terms with it?   Just a thought.  I just can't imagine that what happened with Linda is the first time Dean totally misread what was going on.  Seriously, Linda treated him like one of the family so in his mind that meant she wanted to sleep with him?  WTF? 

 

I wonder if anyone in the Square will remember how Linda started behaving back in September and realize that the rape is what happened and will believe her.  And, just shut up Denise.  I hope she is the killer because she is just so hateful lately.

[eejm]

I can't decide yet whether what happened between Shabnam and Dean was consensual. The way Shabnam described it, it sounds as though it was spontaneous and consensual. However, I could see Shabnam being fine with making out in the bathroom of the club but going no further, only to have Dean take it farther and force sex on her. I could understand Shabnam then taking full responsibility for what happened, thinking she deserved it because she was not behaving as her religion dictates.

 

I do think it will eventually come out that Linda isn’t the first woman Dean has raped, but I don’t know if Shabnam was one of his other victims.

[TeeVee329]

I dunno,

everything the producers have said indicates that Dean will suffer some consequences for raping Linda, but he's not going to go to jail or leave the show.  I can't see them adding any more rapes to his CV is that's the case

[eejm]

I honestly think Dean is about five minutes away from a mental breakdown.  I believe his time in prison really did a number on his personality and was a big part of how he got to be where he is today.  He has said on multiple occasions that he was brutalized in prison – he showed Shirley and Chelsea cigarette burns on his arm after he was released, he’s referred to the other inmates coming for him at night, and he seems really panicked at the idea of ever going back in.  My guess is that Dean was raped himself in prison, probably several times or by more than one person, and he was likely beaten in the attempt. 

Dean genuinely doesn’t seem to recognize that he raped Linda.  I think this is because in his mind (and likely in his experience), a person who has been raped is severely physically injured and was probably screaming bloody murder as it happened.  As Linda didn’t have any visible physical injuries, she froze instead of screaming, and he didn’t beat or torture her, then in Dean’s mind he didn’t rape her.  He made some references to this when he gave his statement to the police on Friday – he said something along the lines of how he didn’t hurt Linda and that she didn’t tell anyone, so therefore she must not have been raped. 

I really think this will end up in Dean being sectioned, at least for a time.  His experiences in prison, his issues with his mother, his depression over not being part of a real “family” like the Carters, and his anger over being repeatedly rejected by women have all affected him very deeply and turned into a really dangerous person.

[Wootini]

Even if Dean doesn't go to prison, I just don't see how he can possibly stay on the Square. Right now, Shirley, Denise (and by association, Kim) as well as Stan are all on Dean's side saying Linda's lying and just covering for an affair. But I get the impression that most of them are not 100% convinced and would flip if given half a reason. I would assume that at some point, Dean and Linda are going to have a "conversation" where she screams at him how she begged him to stop, and he'll flash back to it and realize that she had and finally understand exactly what he did. After that, everyone will know Dean raped Linda and Dean will feel pretty awful to start, even without everyone in the Square wanting to have less than nothing to do with him. 

 

So where the heck do you go with a character like that? Better to toss him in jail!

 

PS: The Ronnie/Roxie flashback episode was much better than the Kat/Alfie one. It seemed like they let them chat more about the behind the scenes gossip. It was very cute hearing what they had to say about their outfits and performances. Maybe the editors just had more chatting to work with than with Shane and Jessie...

[TeeVee329]

Even if Dean doesn't go to prison, I just don't see how he can possibly stay on the Square.

 

I'm the wrong person to ask given that I watched  "One Life to Live", which turned the leader of a gang rape into its central (anti)-hero and male romantic lead (granted, after a good amount of character rehab).

 

But yeah, I could see Dean having a mental breakdown, finally admitting to what happened, and then being sectioned and then coming back to the Square remorseful and dealing with the repercussions.

Edited February 2, 2015 by TeeVee329

[eejm]

But yeah, I could see Dean having a mental breakdown, finally admitting to what happened, and then being sectioned and then coming back to the Square remorseful and dealing with the repercussions.

 

This is what I think will happen.  I think it's actually kind of an interesting approach to take if it does happen this way.  There will be questions all along as to whether the rehab actually worked or not and whether Dean can be trusted around women again.

[Kate87]

 

 

I honestly think Dean is about five minutes away from a mental breakdown.  [...] Dean genuinely doesn’t seem to recognize that he raped Linda.  I think this is because in his mind (and likely in his experience), a person who has been raped is severely physically injured and was probably screaming bloody murder as it happened.  As Linda didn’t have any visible physical injuries, she froze instead of screaming, and he didn’t beat or torture her, then in Dean’s mind he didn’t rape her.  He made some references to this when he gave his statement to the police on Friday – he said something along the lines of how he didn’t hurt Linda and that she didn’t tell anyone, so therefore she must not have been raped.

I completely agree that Dean is nearing a mental breakdown and that he has convinced himself he didn't rape her because of her reaction at the time. I do think he suspects he crossed a line, hence the text message he sent her after and his behavior in the weeks after. I feel like his behavior since has suggested he's trying to justify his actions to himself; maybe I'm reading too much into his behavior. His line to Shirley about he never "would have touched Linda" if Shirley "hadn't messed with [his] head" seemed an odd choice of words. I don't see him ever admitting to rape but watching how he describes it is very interesting. 

 

 

I wonder if anyone in the Square will remember how Linda started behaving back in September and realize that the rape is what happened and will believe her.

 That's the part of this storyline that bothered me from the start. I never understood why Mick didn't seem more concerned/connect the dots that something was terribly wrong right away. I know she was trying to hid it but really, she wasn't doing a very good job acting like her former self (not that I blame her in an way!). It's amazing to me that no one picked up on the sudden change; Mick in particular given how she withdrew sexually. I know she went away and that there was some explanation given (don't recall what at the moment, must watch those episodes again) but the fact that no one suspected something violent happened to her is odd, IMO.

 

I'm beginning to think Shirley may come around soon. I'm having trouble liking her right now. I was happy to see her reaction when Stacey told her to really look at Linda; I realize she won't come around right away, but I'm holding out hope for Mick's sake. At least she's trying to get Dean out of town which is a big step for her. 

[eejm]

I completely agree that Dean is nearing a mental breakdown and that he has convinced himself he didn't rape her because of her reaction at the time. I do think he suspects he crossed a line, hence the text message he sent her after and his behavior in the weeks after. I feel like his behavior since has suggested he's trying to justify his actions to himself; maybe I'm reading too much into his behavior. His line to Shirley about he never "would have touched Linda" if Shirley "hadn't messed with [his] head" seemed an odd choice of words. I don't see him ever admitting to rape but watching how he describes it is very interesting. 

 

 That's the part of this storyline that bothered me from the start. I never understood why Mick didn't seem more concerned/connect the dots that something was terribly wrong right away. I know she was trying to hid it but really, she wasn't doing a very good job acting like her former self (not that I blame her in an way!). It's amazing to me that no one picked up on the sudden change; Mick in particular given how she withdrew sexually. I know she went away and that there was some explanation given (don't recall what at the moment, must watch those episodes again) but the fact that no one suspected something violent happened to her is odd, IMO.

 

I'm beginning to think Shirley may come around soon. I'm having trouble liking her right now. I was happy to see her reaction when Stacey told her to really look at Linda; I realize she won't come around right away, but I'm holding out hope for Mick's sake. At least she's trying to get Dean out of town which is a big step for her. 

 

Mick was concerned with Linda's behavior, but he seemed to chalk it all up to her pregnancy once she admitted she actually was pregnant.  But I know what you mean - I was really, really surprised no one in her family other than her mother noticed how starkly Linda's demeanor changed when Dean was around.  Even if no one would have guessed that Dean raped her, I thought it was a bit unrealistic that no one would have figured out that Dean had at least done something to scare or upset her. 

[Wootini]

I'm beginning to think Shirley may come around soon. I'm having trouble liking her right now. I was happy to see her reaction when Stacey told her to really look at Linda; I realize she won't come around right away, but I'm holding out hope for Mick's sake. At least she's trying to get Dean out of town which is a big step for her. 

 

I've noticed that, too. I feel like it started when Dean was explaining his side of the story to her and she kept asking if Linda ever said "No" or "Stop." The way he said that she didn't wasn't completely convincing, and she looked like she was starting to see cracks in his facade. 

 

As for this last episode, I'm sorry. Having actually run a half marathon, I have to say that EastEnders' portrayal wasn't even close. It was so half-assed! It looked like 10 or 15 people had signed up, and they could all just start from wherever they wanted, and run around the neighborhood for a while then finish and not even walk it off like they'd just jogged around the block. And I know that it was supposed to be a thing that Shabnam knew how to run and could surprise Kush, but the actress was just flailing around like a lunatic as she ran. Bad form! ;-) Oh, and you eat your carbs the night before, not spaghetti for breakfast! Yikes! I'm surprised she and Masood weren't throwing up  at the finish line! :-D

[atlanticslide]

I can let a lot of things about the half-marathon go, but the eating pasta for breakfast was so ridiculous.

[eejm]

That half marathon screamed "fun 5K" with the animal costumes and how energetic everyone was (well, except Masood) when they crossed the finish line.  I chuckled at Tamwar's crack about slipping into an aftershave commercial.

 

Has anyone else watched the Back to Ours with Nitin Ganatra and Himesh Patel?  It's really funny, and Himesh looks completely different when not in costume as Tamwar!

[Wootini]

Yes, he does! Theirs was an enjoyable clipfest, but I still liked the Roxy/Ronnie clip show the best. I thought they had the best behind-the-scenes gossip and I loved that they laughed at their ridiculous clothes and that sex scene. :)

[Wootini]

Gah. I guess it was just wishful thinking that Mick confronting him would make Dean start to realize what really happened. I know the scenes were a bit dark, but it didn't really look like Dean had any breakthrough moments there… :-/

 

I'm not sure why I find Shabnam and Kush so adorable, but I do. Although it seemed a bit odd that they're just getting to the point where they're admitting they like each other… a week or so after the slept together. They're doing this a little backwards...

[doesntworkonwood]

It's been age since I watched EastEnders, I quite around the baby swap storyline, but I'm back! With everything going on around Lucy's death I thought I'd give it another try, so I've watched the last three episodes or so and I'm actually really surprised by how much I liked it.

 

I really like Stacey and Shabnams friendship. Stacey's always been one of my favourite characters, and Shabnam's so cute. 

 

I'm really curious what's happening with Dean. Throughout the entire episode I was shaking my head and wanting to punch him. When he's being confronted like that, how does he not realise what he's done?

 

What was it the Lauren found at the end? Something implicating either Max or Peter in the murder I'm assuming?

[Wootini]

It looked like a phone number, and since she went "OH MY GOD" I can only assume it's a number she recognized, so it must be someone she knows.

 

Although I don't know why the phone number is such a big deal. It's not like it said "Lucy's killer's cell" next to it or anything. It was just a random note scrawled at the top of a page. But whatever. We'll find out in a couple of weeks! 

[eejm]

Gah. I guess it was just wishful thinking that Mick confronting him would make Dean start to realize what really happened. I know the scenes were a bit dark, but it didn't really look like Dean had any breakthrough moments there… :-/

 

I’m not sure what to make of the Dean/Mick scenes.  I really, really want to know how they ended up parting without Dean being beaten, killed, or at least firmly chased off by Mick.  When Shirley found Mick walking back to the Vic, he seemed to be certain that Dean would leave despite the fact that Dean was still in the allotments.  We also saw that brief, odd scene of Dean eyeing the shovel that didn’t seem to mean much.  I know Dean had threatened Mick with it earlier, but there was no reason we needed to see that scene unless it means something later down the road.  Anyway, I hope those odd scenes mean that something bigger is yet to come, and that the significance of what the two talked about that we didn’t see comes to light later.

 

While we're on the subject of Dean - I want him to pay somehow, some way for what he did to Linda.  But on the flip side of that, I really want to find out the details of the night he and Shabnam spent together AND I want to see his reaction when he finds out he has a daughter out there somewhere.  That's a really juicy story that's been slipped in at the strangest moment and is just begging to be explored.

[Decider]

I think Dean appealed to Mick when he told him that going to jail meant Linda and the kids would be without him if he got arrested for GBH.

 

I also believe that shovel is going to come back into play somehow.

[eejm]

I think Dean appealed to Mick when he told him that going to jail meant Linda and the kids would be without him if he got arrested for GBH.

 

I also believe that shovel is going to come back into play somehow.

 

That could be that Dean's bit about Mick going to jail made Mick back off.  However, I can't see Mick just leaving Dean alone in the allotments.  I'd think with someone as mad as Mick he'd have marched Dean to the tube station or a taxi and made sure he was out of Walford. 

 

It'll be interesting to see if the shovel makes another appearance in all of this.  I do think there's a big, final, knock down-drag out fight left between those two that we haven't seen.

[M. Darcy]

 

Although I don't know why the phone number is such a big deal. It's not like it said "Lucy's killer's cell" next to it or anything.

I think it did say something like missing for an hour so I'm thinking that means that that person doesn't have an alibi for the time Lucy was killed.  Though, it was the pictures that made Emma figure it out.  Sigh. Oh well, we're almost there. 

 

 

Himesh looks completely different when not in costume as Tamwar!

It took me a few minutes to recognize him - its like Superman/Clark Kent.  Without his glasses on, he looks totally different.

[Wootini]

The Denise/Patrick/Kim clip show was also delightful. I loved watching Diane Parish squirm as they all watched the Fatboy/Denise seduction scene.

 

Although I really could do with never seeing Patrick have his stroke again. Gets me EVERY TIME. 

[Chip]

Added a poll to this thread concerning live week.

[M. Darcy]

They are actually going to show the very first episode of Eastenders - its going to be on BBC iPlayer and Red Button from Monday 16th February.

[Wootini]

I haven't seen that since the 80s when they first aired it on PBS! I'm very excited to see it again! (And see how young everyone looks!)

[M. Darcy]

I saw a picture from it yesterday - teenage Ian!

[Meredith Quill]

So the phone number was a landline number, which judging by Lauren's reaction was probably the Beale's home number. I'm still on board with Cindy being the culprit; she has been conspicuously absent from screen time of late and the show is really trying to make us focus on Abi, also in their latest episode synopsis write ups; the focus seems to fall on Jane too.

I'm ruling Abi out on the basis of 1. too obvious and 2. the phone number. 

Which leaves Jane & Cindy as the best candidates imo. However, as I said, they're writing things like

"Jane feels the pressure"

which if they want the reveal to be a 'OMG Gasp!'moment, they wouldn't point so obviously to the true killer. The final thing that makes me think Cindy not Jane, is the way Emma was talking to whomever she met in the park, she was talking to a young person, not someone from her peer group.

[Wootini]

Yeah, it's not an adult. I agree that Emma's tone of voice was as though talking to someone younger than her, not older.

 

Monday's episode made it seem like Lauren was suspicious of Peter, so I guess he's out as a suspect. Basically, anyone they try to present as a viable possibility this week I'm going to consider a red herring. Unless of course, they present EVERYONE in which case then they're just messing with us. :)

[Decider]

The next episode of Back to Ours is up with Adam Woodyatt and Laurie Brett.

[Wootini]

UGH. Just UGH.

 

I was all set to come here to complain about Nick pushing Dot into buying drugs for him, but then they had to go and do that completely out of nowhere Charlie/Roxy kiss. I mean, what the actual hell? This is even worse than Roxy/Alfie. Are the writers completely incapable of penning a proper romance for Roxy?

 

At least with Alfie, Roxy had a crush on him for ages, so once he was relatively single, it seemed only natural she'd make her move. Unfortunately, they sped things up too much and had them get too serious WAY too fast. This destroyed any rooting value that this couple might have had. But with Charlie, it came out of absolutely nowhere. There was that moment where they hugged and then looked at each other, and having watched enough soaps, I immediately was like, "Oh my God, they're going to kiss!" but then just as quickly said "No, you're just being foolish. They aren't attracted to each other. That's never even been hinted at. You're just jumping to conclusions."

 

But then they kissed. UGH. Just UGH.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Wootini

[atlanticslide]

I love grief!sex storylines so I would've been totally into a Charlie/Roxy hookup if there had been ANY buildup to it other than him putting his hand on her leg in Monday's episode. They've been offscreen for so long that I legit forgot what was happening with Ronnie, and this could be an interesting direction to take things, but they should have been building towards this with Charlie and Roxy getting closer over the weeks since the accident, Roxy pulling away from Alex. It just felt totally nonsensical and out of nowhere, didn't fit with what we've seen of these two recently at all.

[M. Darcy]

The Pam and Barbara episode is available!  And, is amazing.  Aw, I hadn't seen the scene where Pat died before.  :-( 

[Decider]

The only soap opera deaths to date that I have ever truly ugly cried over -- full on weeping, no lie -- were Ethel and Pat.

 

Off to watch Barbara and Pam!

[eejm]

I love grief!sex storylines so I would've been totally into a Charlie/Roxy hookup if there had been ANY buildup to it other than him putting his hand on her leg in Monday's episode. They've been offscreen for so long that I legit forgot what was happening with Ronnie, and this could be an interesting direction to take things, but they should have been building towards this with Charlie and Roxy getting closer over the weeks since the accident, Roxy pulling away from Alex. It just felt totally nonsensical and out of nowhere, didn't fit with what we've seen of these two recently at all.

 

I agree completely.  Also, Roxy somehow thinks that she and Charlie sleeping together is all Dot's fault.  Um, Roxy - it's crappy that your sister is in such sorry shape.  Obviously you and Charlie are devastated.  It's horrific that Dot's son caused the accident.  But is jumping into bed with Ronnie's grieving husband the only logical course of action in this situation?  And is it also somehow beyond your and Charlie's control to - I don't know - keep your clothes on?  Did having a child with Ronnie's previous husband teach you nothing?!?

 

I was seriously waiting for Nick to see a baby crawling on the ceiling while he was sitting on the stairs a la Trainspotting.

[atlanticslide]

I was leaning heavily towards Abi being Lucy's murderer, but now I'm putting my money on either Jane or Cindy. I'll be disappointed, though, if it is Cindy, since we haven't seen her onscreen in what feels like forever.

[Pete Martell]

Not really all that into what's become of the show, but I'm watching the current episodes for the anniversary. It's more of the same (sourfaced Carter misery and pointless affairs - Charlie is a disgusting pig who clearly has no regrets about boning his SIL and likely will again so we can have Roxy's second WTD story when the first one sucked enough all on its own), but I was impressed by the final Dot/Nick scenes. Nice use of history, good dialogue and camera work, and wonderful work from June Brown. I also liked Denise crashing the Beale shamdig, although pointless Sonia's smug face nearly ruined it. 

 

And I had to change my icon to one of my all time favorites, Carmel. They don't make 'em like that anymore. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by Pete Martell

[M. Darcy]

I just watched the Graham Norton Show - lots of fun. And he pointed out that Tracy was in the very first episode.

[TimWil]

It was very sweet that Danny Dyer marveled at how Jane/Tracy worked behind the bar and Jane blew him a kiss of gratitude. That was wonderful.

OK. I think Max did it. I've been thinking this since just before Christmas. The ripple effects of him being the murderer would be wider than if anybody else other than Ian had done it. Stacy will probably get to take over his business(es), for starters.

Edited February 17, 2015 by TimWil

[M. Darcy]

If it's not Abi, Max just lost father of the year. I'm guessing it's not since Lauren would have probably just destroyed the evidence. Or not given Abi's look of glee when Lauren said her and Peter broke up.

[Decider]

I still don't think it was Abi.

 

And OF COURSE Ronnie opens her eyes when Roxy and Charlie are stupidly discussing their hookup in front of her.  OF COURSE.  Ugh.

[M. Darcy]

I think that Max accusing her like that makes it less likely just because then we won't be shocked when the big reveal is made.

I'm glad it's a new Martin because Kat hitting on the Martin I'm used to would be so icky.....it's bad enough that she did it.

[TimWil]

There's rampant speculation going on that Phil was about to tell Ian that he has information that Kathy is still alive. Hmmmm...I was told by someone connected with the show back in December that I shouldn't be surprised if Kathy "returns from the dead" in 2015. And so I won't be.

[Decider]

Rumor has it that the talk Phil needs to have with Ian is about Kathy being alive.  I can't imagine that to be true, but I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Decider

[Decider]

Jinx, TimWil!

[darkestboy]

Good start to live proceedings last night.

Vincent fascinates me as a character. I can't wait to find out what's going on with him and Ronnie. I knew as soon as he said to Phil he was looking for her that she'd pull through.

Charlie and Roxy, well that secret didn't stay secret for long, lol.

Max and Abi clearly think the other is the killer. Damn, was hoping for it to be Abi. Guess it's Jane or Cindy now.

It is chilling that Lucy died in her own home and was moved to the common.

The Ian and Sharon scenes were brilliant. I really like their friendship. What the hell is Phil going to tell him though.

New Martin's a bit fit, isn't he? He did seem to make the extra effort to talk to Stacey as well.

Kat was pretty vile in this episode as well. Bored of her self destructive attitude, beyond bored of it.

I guess Lauren's off then.

Liked Christian's return. Peggy's was meh but I did like her conversation with Dot and her being on the receiving end of her own catchphrase courtesy of Mick.

Great start, EE.

[Meredith Quill]

If Kathy is alive, unless she has rampant amnesia why would she have stayed away all these years? Not sure whether to be 90% excited/10% dismayed or 90% dismayed/10% excited at the prospect?! ;)

 

I'd like to know the reason why Peggy came back, hopefully all will be revealed asap.

 

Lauren will be back, I've seen her in the previews for more episodes this week. 

 

I knew the moment Roxy & Charlie got it on that Ronnie would be waking up soon and having them discuss what happened as they stood beside her hospital bed was beyond dumb (who would do that?!?), even if she is in a coma the paranoia alone would make you waaaay more cautious than to discuss it where anyone could just waltz in.

 

I'm bored of the whole Kat acting out storyline; her coming onto anything in trousers got old years ago. 

[TimWil]

I'm no fan of Kat/Jessie but I loved how she and Lisa gently shoved each other in last night's episode. I think there's good frenemy chemistry there.

[Wootini]

Well, I guess that means it's not Abi… Unless they're trying to do some kind of misdirect and it actually IS Abi… Oh, this is making my head hurt. :)

 

I thought they did a great job with the episode, especially since there were only some parts that were live. I was impressed that I couldn't instantly tell when they went live and when it was pre-taped. Good on you, producers/directors/actors/etc! 

 

Although it did occur to me over last weekend that if this week is live because they wanted to keep the reveal of the killer a secret, what did they do in the scenes that will air next week that clearly would have been taped months ago? Do they just have people refer to events of live week in the vaguest of terms? Or do they just not mention it at all and move on to other, new storylines? I'm just kind of fascinated by how they worked all this out production-wise.

 

I loved seeing Peggy again, but it was odd because she's obviously not there for the wedding, so I don't know why Phil brought her back to the Square. I assume that there's a good reason for her visit that will be explained at some point this week other than just getting Barbara Windsor back for an anniversary week cameo. And when Jane was on the phone with Christian and it sounded like he wasn't able to come, I actually fell for it. I just thought they were being good by mentioning him at least. But then he showed up! Yay! I am actually super-unspoiled about any surprise returns for the anniversary week because I'm in the US, so please nobody mention anything you've heard! It's so much more fun when people just pop in unexpectedly!

 

Although I have to say that I would be very surprised if Kathy turned out to be alive after all these years. Although I'm with SilverStormm in wondering why she would have stayed away for so long… :-/

[M. Darcy]

 

It is chilling that Lucy died in her own home and was moved to the common.

Cindy is so tiny - could she move Lucy on her own?  Not that Lucy wasn't tiny herself.  Gah.  Just tell us already!!  Though, Denise was living there at the time - that should keep her on the list. 

 

Heh, I think I've guessed everyone at some point which means I will be proven right tomorrow! 

[Wootini]

Wait, they're doing the actual murderer reveal on Thursday's show? I guess that makes sense. Reveal it at the very end, then deal with the fallout on Friday's live show. Because as I said, it had to be weird to have already taped next week's shows, so they'll probably wrap everything up nice and neat in Friday's show.

 

But I was thinking it was Abi for so long that I don't know who else to pick! The show has been making Jane and even Peter look so suspicious. And by the show, I mean Lauren. I just assume that the directors told all the potential suspects to act alternatingly suspicious and guilty for the past week or so just to confuse people.

 

I just hope to God the reveal of the killer makes logical sense...