S08.E08: Mr. & Mrs. Castle

[WendyCR72]

Castle and Beckett investigate the murder of a cruise ship entertainer, only to find themselves trapped at sea with the killer.

[CastleSeason8]

Ok, so Ive seen the big fall finale. Still a bit leary about posting too much - dont want to blow it for anyone even tho Im on this thread.

What i will say is that the episode as a whole wasnt bad. The case, ok. The movement in Lokstat acceptable - finally.

I cant stand Vikram, never could, but after tonight i really, really dont like him. Not the character, not the actor (sorry).

Caskett - what can i say. Rick had a moment or two of hope ... and in the last 2 minutes it was gone. My lack of sympathy for and disappointment in Kate remains firmly intact.

As i mentioned previously on another thread, as hard as it is to get over the out of charactet behavior of both, i will wave it off - try and forget there was no character development that was promised, no "pay off" and move on from here.

Edited November 24, 2015 by CastleSeason8

[FlickerToAFlame]

Ok episode. Overhyped. Terrible acting by the big 2 in the loft scene. So are we to assume they will now do what Rick said and be together but pretend they're not?

TV Line's episode recap says a very "candid" showrunner Q&A is coming after the west coast airing.

[McManda]

I don't care at all about LokSat or whatever the new biggest biggest bad is.

 

But does this mean that Beckett and Castle are back together with a breakup as a cover? Because for the love of God, that's what should have happened in the firset place to not make the first 8 episode drag and make me almost want to stop watching. I'd much rather have them "broken up" but sneaking around and whatever that entails than the fake angst of one of them believe that they're actually broken up.

 

The worst part is, the first episodes weren't bad at all. I found them mostly fun and interesting and a decent reminder of how the show used to be ... except for that it was all overshadowed by the idea that Beckett had reverted to her old persona by trying to be selfless (but actually being selfish and self-sabotaging) and drowning herself in her personal demons and Castle being sad and angsty because Beckett wanted to "break up".

 

I don't need another biggest bad, but LokSat is much more palatable if Castle and Beckett are together and not just working parallel to each other.

 

A welcome shift in momentum, for sure. Thanks show writers! I don't even care if the whole "broken up" resolution was too easy. I was too annoyed with the whole idea to even care that they basically just handwaved it. Hopefully the episodes in the new year can keep all the good things they've managed to accomplish and then make them better because hopefully Castle and Beckett are on the same page now.

Edited November 24, 2015 by McManda

[Guest]

It was okay. I got really annoyed with Beckett for the first time when she authorized Vikram to take down his computer. I don't know why that was my breaking point with this stupid arc.

I didn't want him to forgive her so easily, but I don't really care either at this point. Just move things forward.

[FlickerToAFlame]

So the promo says the show returns Monday February 1 now, not January like TV Line said.

[verdana]

God the ending in his apartment was terrible, the acting was AWFUL, stiff and forced, it felt very flat. Nathan and Stana looked as if they were really struggling with the dialogue to get it out and make it seem natural, I think Nathan almost stumbled on a line or two I'd have to re-watch, they also seemed rushed and rather uncomfortable. That's the worst performance I think I've seen them ever give, there was zero chemistry there. It felt totally like something quickly tacked it on and they were asked to do on the fly.

I felt very sorry for the actors, they're were having to deliver really clunky dialogue. Hawley thought that in any way brought back the Always vibes he's even more deluded than I thought. They didn't address anything serious at all, Beckett didn't come over to me as even that bothered despite the "you were right about everything" line and the way she just walked in hands on hips kind of bugged me, their reunion was far too casually done. I just want to forget all this every happened. Sigh

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[Betweenthisandthat]

Because for the love of God, that's what should have happened in the firset place to not make the first 8 episode drag and make me almost want to stop watching. I'd much rather have them "broken up" but sneaking around and whatever that entails than the fake angst of one of them believe that they're actually broken up.

 

Does make the plot look rather pointless now because Kate even admits her separation plan was pointless.  Then they go back to where they were before?   What a strange arc.  Was this really what the writers were planning all along? The ending did feel rushed.  That's some handwaving if I ever saw it, but at least that part is over.  

Edited November 24, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[FlickerToAFlame]

I guess you can only act so well with Christine Roum dialogue.

[statsgirl]

God the ending in his apartment was terrible, the acting was AWFUL, stiff and forced,  it felt very flat. Nathan and Stana looked as if they were really struggling with the dialogue to get it out and make it seem natural, I think Nathan almost stumbled on a line or two I'd have to re-watch, they also seemed rushed and rather uncomfortable. That's the worst performance I think I've seen them ever give, there was zero chemistry there. It felt totally like something quickly tacked it on and they were asked to do on the fly.

I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet but do you think the "resolution" could have been tacked on or changed from the original script given that so many people were threatening to quit the show if Castle and Beckett weren't back together by the mid season break?

[verdana]

I guess you can only act so well with Christine Roum dialogue.

 

I've never been a fan of her writing, the dialogue for Stana and Nathan in both their key scenes was clunky as hell and the actors were clearly having a struggle, even good actors get let down by bad writing, they can only do so much plus the ending felt super rushed. 

[Betweenthisandthat]

Kate, though, insists she does believe in him, in them. And she cops to making the wrong call all those weeks ago. “I didn’t realize how much I needed you until this happened,” she states. “Please, don’t make me do this without you.” (The irony of course being she is the one that first made herself do this without him.)

 

This from a recap on tvline.  The part in the parenthesis made me laugh.  I say again, this has got to be one of the strangest plots I've seen this season.  I hope for the show's sake it can do better in the second half of the season.

[KaveDweller]

It was a decent episode overall. I liked Caskett investigating on the ship together.  It felt very old school. The scenes with Haley and Vikram hacking would have been good if the situation wasn't so serious. I know they were going for the Mr. and Mrs. Smith vibe there, but Castle and Beckett are very different from those characters. The stakes seemed higher and that took the fun out of it.

 

It annoyed me that they talked about Vikram's text "interrupting" their anniversary.  Beckett was already getting dressed and on her way out the door when the text came in. How hard is continuity with something from a week ago?

 

The reunion was a bit too easy, but I don't even care because the break up was so stupid I just wanted it over with. I liked that they let Castle tell her why he was so angry calmly and that she did apologize. It's kind of weird that he mentions her obsession and then agrees to help with the case, but I'm guessing that is going to come up again later.

 

I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet but do you think the "resolution" could have been tacked on or changed from the original script given that so many people were threatening to quit the show if Castle and Beckett weren't back together by the mid season break?

 

The way it was written/filmed, it definitely could have been tacked on. 

[verdana]

I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet but do you think the "resolution" could have been tacked on or changed from the original script given that so many people were threatening to quit the show if Castle and Beckett weren't back together by the mid season break?

Before I this episode I was very doubtful that any changes had been made for various reasons but after seeing this I can well believe they did change the ending to get them together sooner, it was that poorly executed, any way watch and see I'd be interested to hear what you think. 

[CastleSeason8]

I haven't had a chance to see the episode yet but do you think the "resolution" could have been tacked on or changed from the original script given that so many people were threatening to quit the show if Castle and Beckett weren't back together by the mid season break?

Before this aired i didnt think changes had been made - i didnt think there was enough time nor inclination by ABC or showrunners to change anything. After seeing it - yes, i think that was rewritten.

[Chado]

The episode was ok, the ending was terrible.

 

That ending change could have easily been tacked on at the end, it was jarring to the rest of the episode in my opinion. It felt extremely rushed, they put it on the back of another scene between Vikram and Beckett getting a clue, and yet that somehow transitions into Beckett deciding she needs Castle all of a sudden? Where the hell did that even come from? It made no sense. It was so incredibly forced.

 

The scene in the interrogation room felt natural, the ending wasn't at all. I mean first it started with the conversation between Lucy and Castle which felt incredibly awkward, Beckett's apology felt insincere. Her 'you were right' felt like something she would say in season 1 when she is coming to Castle's home to tell him about a case update. The entire scene missed the mark emotionally.

 

Overall, a poor resolution to Beckett walking out on her marriage, what happens now isn't even clear either. So now they are 'together' but staying broken up? I don't even care anymore.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chado

[McManda]

I hope for the show's sake it can do better in the second half of the season.

 

I feel like they should be able to, because the worst part of what we've seen so far is that they were broken up. If they're only pretending to be broken up it erases all the awkwardness trying to explain why they're not together but still accomplishes whatever big picture TPTB want to aim for.

 

It's what they should have done from the beginning instead of wasting 8 episodes just making fans/shippers angry with the whole idea that Beckett would walk away, or that Castle would let her (and not realize why she was doing it).

 

That's why I don't even care this episode was sloppy and rushed. As long as they get back to Castle+Beckett solving crimes whilst in a relationship I think people will forgive a lot.

[verdana]

Their two confrontations were groan worthy. I had to wait weeks for this? The first was better than the second which was poor even by my lowered standards. Clunky, forced and if I didn't know better I would think it was last minute re-write. Source of quotes below. http://thisisfromawhileago.tumblr.com/

"The fact that you even think that breaks my heart. I would walk into a tornado for you Kate. [And I would die if I lost you] You want to know what hurts the most? You could have come to me with everything, broken us up, just like you did only it would have been a cover, than together in secret we could have taken this guy down. Only that thought never even occurred to you, because deep down inside you like being broken, and you need this obsession, and no matter what I do I can’t change that, only you can Kate."

Castle rightly brings up her obsession, the rest is laughably highlighting the sheer stupidity of what she was doing. The very idea he suggests is exactly what some fans had talked about him doing is even worse, as if they thought lets stick that in make the fans happy we're paying attention.

And the final exchange before they head off to bed:

KATE: You were absolutely right.

RICK: Could you be more specific.

KATE: That our break up could have just been a cover, so that we could bring down Locksat together.

RICK: Ya I wish you would have come to me

KATE: Well I’m here now, so lets do it.

RICK: Its not that easy.

KATE: I thought that you would...

RICK: ....just take you back? After what you put me through?

KATE: Look Castle, I am sorry. I hate that I hurt you, that was never what I wanted.

RICK: Well you did hurt me Kate, and worst you lost faith in me.

KATE: No I never, I need you Rick. I didn’t realize even how much I needed you until this happened. Please just don’t make me do this without you.

RICK: Ok.

RICK/KATE KISSS

RICK: You do realize I’m gonna have to punish you first.

KATE: Naked punishing?

RICK: Naked punishing.

RICK/KATE WALK TOWARDS THE BEDROOM.

LUCY: Aww you guys.

So her response to what he said earlier is to ignore his comment about her obsession and to say sorry again and lets go down that rabbit hole together! WTF? And he's like okay with that? Huh? After everything they've been through with Bracken and he's casually accepting they go do this all over again? It's like Castle has agreed to further enable an alcoholic by helping her find the booze whenever she needs it. Jesus

These two both seem to have had lobotomies since S8 started. I see no self awareness from Kate it's freakish how robotic they're making this character. As for the tease of off screen sexytimes that does nothing for me when they're behaving like a pair of brain dead idiots.

What a terrible pay off after so long a wait. I wasn't expecting much but this was a let down. They set up the chance for Castle and Beckett to address her obsession in the lead in and then ignored the fundamental issue in the conclusion and made Castle look even more brainless than ever since he was the one who highlighted the problem she's got. *scratches head*

The writers set this up as broken Beckett chasing her demons and they've just brushed it under the rug, having Beckett admitting she needs him was enough and then they switch straight on to dirty talk and it's like all forgotten. I almost got whiplash from that transition.

They would have been better off not even bringing her obsession into the first conversation as it's glaringly absent from the second as a discussion point. Why does he want to help her chase this case and endanger their family over tis case? I don't know and I don't care any more, it's over at least. Sums up this entire story arc that it ends on this unsatisfying note. Meh

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[Nadine]

In regards to the ending, it wasn't tacked on, it was shot during the regular filming schedule for the episode, etc.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Nadine

[FlickerToAFlame]

In regards to the ending, it wasn't tacked on, it was shot during the regular filming schedule for the episode, etc.

Thanks for the info.

[verdana]

In regards to the ending, it wasn't tacked on, it was shot during the regular filming schedule for the episode, etc.

Well that makes it worse. I wish it had been at least that might explain the rushed vibe and flat rather awkward tone to it. 

[KaveDweller]

God the ending in his apartment was terrible, the acting was AWFUL, stiff and forced,  it felt very flat. Nathan and Stana looked as if they were really struggling with the dialogue to get it out and make it seem natural, I think Nathan almost stumbled on a line or two I'd have to re-watch, they also seemed rushed and rather uncomfortable. That's the worst performance I think I've seen them ever give, there was zero chemistry there. It felt totally like something quickly tacked it on and they were asked to do on the fly.

 

I thought they did show chemistry when they got to the sexy banter, even though it was really weird that they got to that so fast. 

 

Do you think Castle saying they could have just been doing a fake out from the beginning was the writers acknowledging that they should have done that?

 

I still don't trust Vikram. I don't get why he was being so forceful about Beckett not talking to Castle. Also, the actor is terrible. 

[McManda]

Seamus's conversation tweets with Sunkrish Bala made me laugh though:

 

@sunkrishbala
In these moments, I think it's important to remember that I'm just an actor. #castle

 

@seamusdever
Welcome to the "I only cockblock cuz the writers tell me to" club, Sunkrish

 

@sunkrishbala
homie, this is terrifying

 

@seamusdever
they think we write this shit

 

At least they're self aware. I do hope they're not paying too much attention to the crazies, though.

[Chado]

So her response to what he said earlier is to ignore his comment about her obsession and to say sorry again and lets go down that rabbit hole together! WTF?  And he's like okay with that? Huh? After everything they've been through with Bracken and he's like casually accepting they go do this all over again? It's like Castle has agreed to further enable an alcoholic by helping her find the booze whenever she needs it. Jesus

The entire episode was building towards Castle realizing that there was nothing he could do to fix this, she had to do it.....and yet he is enabling her by taking her back. The Lucy/Castle conversation was a very bad attempt at trying to tell the audience why Castle is doing this.

 

Also, where the hell is the indication that Beckett even starts to realize this? That she realizes she may have a problem? There's honestly no sincere apology from her, no deep look into her 'obsession' and how much it is controlling her. Her only thought process is to include Castle in on it so she can continue her stupidity, without even taking his words to heart. Why even put another scene between Vikram and Beckett right before she goes to see Castle? It makes the entire thing so ridiculous.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chado

[FlickerToAFlame]

Not a fan of the actor either. "Clock-blocking" unrelated.

@sunkrishbala: In these moments, I think it's important to remember I'm just an actor. #castle

@seamusdever: Welcome to the "I only clockblock cuz the writers tell me to" club, Sunkrish https://t.co/trvVHDwaIB

@sunkrishbala: @seamusdever homie, this is terrifying.

@seamusdever: @sunkrishbala they think we write this shit.

@sunkrishbala: Thanks for watching, east coast! #Castle #hatemail.

[verdana]

Do you think Castle saying they could have just been doing a fake out from the beginning was the writers acknowledging that they should have done that?

I don't know maybe, I thought it was so odd that they had him mention this which shows up the inherent faults in the story and yet the writers seemed to delight in showcasing them in every way possible, to the extent of having Castle say it. Bizarre.

[FlickerToAFlame]

I know it's probably not what Seamus means by "shit," but that's not the word I'd use to describe work by people who could have you fall down an elevator shaft #Friends.

Edited November 24, 2015 by FlickerToAFlame

[rallymantis]

@seamusdever

they think we write this shit

 

Brilliant and should be a t-shirt every actor owns.

[verdana]

I still don't trust Vikram. I don't get why he was being so forceful about Beckett not talking to Castle. Also, the actor is terrible. 

The guy gave me the creeps this episode, I hated the way he kept on poking his nose into what she was doing with Castle and I....don't like the actor there's something that doesn't gel with me when he's on screen. Sorry I'm sure he's a nice guy and all but something is not working there. 

 

The reunion was a bit too easy, but I don't even care because the break up was so stupid I just wanted it over with.

You speak for many in the fandom there I'm sure. 

[LakeGal]

I still like Castle.  But at this point I don't care about Beckett anymore.  She has pushed me too far.  I didn't want Castle to forgive her that easily.

[oberon55]

I could bitch & moan about it being too little too late but after eight episodes they have beat me into submission. I'm just glad it's semi over. I agree that it could have been added at the last minute. Oh yeah I hope LokSat shoots Vikrum in the head (twice).

[371012]

I don't trust him.  And I still wonder if I like Hayley or if she could also have an end run going on.  Then there's the new public defender who has bad guy written all over him, as they detected.  Yet they think he might be working with the cartel...why did they not wonder if he is there to watch Kate and Vikram?

 

I appreciated Rick's laying things out.  Wish it had been left at that with Beckett needing to do some work to get back in with him.  And then to jump straight to naked punishment...say what?!  That was such a throw away, ick.  I was reminded of Beckett not sleeping with Rick the night of the weather girl...wished he had said he wasn't quite ready for that.

 

I, too, was surprised to hear that wasn't a tacked on scene.  Thought for sure it was.

[WendyCR72]

Looks like Seamus Dever is in "give no shits" mode. Sure, it may not be professional, but sometimes, the truth hurts.

Maybe it is the last season. It would explain why he is being so blunt.

[Nadine]

Looks like Seamus Dever is in "give no shits" mode. Sure, it may not be professional, but sometimes, the truth hurts.

Maybe it is the last season. It would explain why he is being so blunt.

 

Nah he's done that previously, so not that unexpected from him.

[verdana]

The entire episode was building towards Castle realizing that there was nothing he could do to fix this, she had to do it.....and yet he is enabling her by taking her back. The Lucy/Castle conversation was a very bad attempt at trying to tell the audience why Castle is doing this.

 

Also, where the hell is the indication that Beckett even starts to realize this? That she realizes she may have a problem? There's honestly no sincere apology from her, no deep look into her 'obsession' and how much it is controlling her. Her only thought process is to include Castle in on it so she can continue her stupidity, without even taking his words to heart. Why even put another scene between Vikram and Beckett right before she goes to see Castle? It makes the entire thing so ridiculous.

I'm not a professional writer obviously but I don't get how they thought this made sense in terms of structuring growth and evolution of the story for Beckett or Castle but especially Beckett and how they put together the various scenes. If a showrunner talks to their audience about a character being "broken" and having an obsession, it being in her DNA and say they're going to examine what happens when it comes back to haunt them then surely the point of the set up is to pursue that angle over a number of episodes and look into it yes? How does it affect that person and those close to her?

 

Now we reach a supposed "shift" but the obsession isn't even a factor yet it's brought up by the main title character during an argument! They say writers don't waste time putting in lines that have no importance but that seems to have been exactly what they've done, bizarre. Will they ever address this issue or has it just morphed into Beckett and Castle chasing a big bad together? The writers have completely lost me on what they're trying to do in terms of character development here or with the story but then neither character seems that bothered either so I should just give up trying to understand what seems deeply flawed writing lol. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

Also, where the hell is the indication that Beckett even starts to realize this? That she realizes she may have a problem? There's honestly no sincere apology from her, no deep look into her 'obsession' and how much it is controlling her. Her only thought process is to include Castle in on it so she can continue her stupidity, without even taking his words to heart. Why even put another scene between Vikram and Beckett right before she goes to see Castle? It makes the entire thing so ridiculous.

 

They had to put that Beckett/Vikram scene in there so that they could explain that public defender guy works for Locksat.

 

In the scene where Castle told her she is the only one who could change her obsession, I thought I saw a flicker of recognition or something in Beckett's eyes. But then Espo interrupted.  I would have really loved to see a longer conversation there, because she seemed like she wanted to respond to that, but obviously that's not allowed.

 

I do think her apology about hurting him seemed sincere, but it was really weird they touched on her obsession and then just ignored it. They did have Castle say they should have done it together from the beginning, so it wasn't totally out of nowhere that he was okay with investigating when she said it. But weird that they had him bring it up if he wasn't going to follow through. There should have been a little more conversation before he took her back. I can see him forgiving her because she thought she was protecting him, but it just needed more discussion first.

[verdana]

I liked Castle finally showing some gumption and investigating from the start.  It should have happened weeks ago and was one of the things I had the most problems with accepting, it was completely OOC that he was being so passive and unquestioning about everything.

 

Vikram is a douchebag but he can't even do it for me as a possible guy up to no good or when he's trying to be funny, he's just *there* filling space. Please Go Away.

 

Perlmutter is back, not a fan of the beard I have to say.

 

I'm king of the world! Had to get that in there now didn't they.

 

Castle and Beckett divide and conquer.

 

Castle surrounded by scantily clad women other than Kate Beckett - got our first one of the season, these scenes normally don't work for me but this one was funny and in keeping, it played to Fillion's strengths at physical comedy too with his dance routine.

 

Divide and conquer (again), highlights how Castle and Beckett make a great detective team, wish we could see more of that. 

 

More Locksat. Trash! Yeah it is. I couldn't care less about this case which looks like taking up the entire season. Sigh

 

Caleb Brown, the new public defender is okay on that brief viewing but can't say I'm in any huge rush to seem him again.

 

Vikram I don't know if it's the actor or the writing may be both but Vikram is giving me the creeps with his constant interference in their marriage, say the fuck out dude.

 

THE PENNY IS FINALLY DROPPING with Castle, lol.  The scene between Hayley, Castle and Martha whilst they figured it out was funny and not in a good way, all of this should have been figured out right from the start, hearing it now had me sighing.

 

Martha your advice to your son sucks. It's becoming as irritating and useless as Lanie's, I will not be buying her book. There's a reason why you've got a spotty marital history, Castle has every right to be trying to find out what is going on with his wife at this point by whatever means available, she's keeping something from him.

 

Hayley doesn't feel shoehorned into the story for once, of course I don't understand how she became a super hacker too but never mind she's helping Castle snoop and that's all good.

 

We've been so careful how could they find us!  Oh please. If Locksat wanted you Kate they'd get you. All her so called efforts at protection and security measures to hide the investigation from others are a huge fucking joke.  She is not protecting anyone by what she's doing, she must realise that surely? Everyone knows where she lives, she has a famous husband and they know where HE lives, they know where she works, Vikram is now working with her at the NYPD. Jesus save me from this stupidity. 

 

The hacking scene was fun but sad at the same time, they both know they're lying to each other for crying out loud, talking about getting laid again and fooling about when their marriage is supposedly in crisis and Castle could be in danger from big bad Locksat felt a bit off. Castle talk to your wife!  This avoidance is getting super annoying.

 

I hope I didn't just nuke my marriage - well Kate may be you should have thought about that before you started keeping things from your husband.

 

Once again chasing the Kate takes precedence over dealing with the lying to her husband, where does the find the time to be out taking down criminals and doing her Captain's duties?

 

Kate we need to talk! My first thought why didn't you say this WEEKS ago? Her comment that he lost faith in her is a bit rich given that she's been lying to him for ages, it's difficult to hold faith in someone when they're constantly stonewalling you. Kate's reasoning for keeping things from Castle and protecting him from Locksat still didn't make any sense but then that wasn't a surprise none of this story does.

 

“Deep down you like being broken.” Ouch but at this moment I'd say that's fair comment because I'm starting to wonder that about Beckett too as she chases her latest demon.

 

If you're messing with me I might shoot you she tells Vikram. Get in line Kate I'm first. Although I understand some fans have been giving the actor shit on twitter over what happened tonight, seriously? Get a grip and stop embarrassing the rest of us. 

 

The ending. Meh but at least they're back together. 

 

 

[turnitwayup]

I totally agree that the last scene felt so tacked on. New Loksat nonsense clue to Castle talking to Lucy to clunky apology. TBTB wasted so much time in the beginning with the dumb separation which should've been either a rus in the 1st place or been clued in by 5th ep so that Castle can have some time to really think about things and forgive Beckett to work together at the fall finale. Plus Castle really needs to know about Rita.

 

Apparently Vikram has the time to disappear from the precinct I think it was the middle of the day to work on Loksat. All of his scenes were back and forth between the strip club and precinct and wasn't this case solved in one day.

 

I did like them working together on the ship and when Castle finally confronts Beckett in the interrogation room. I also kinda liked Martha's green outfit. At least Alexis was no where to be found during the hacking scene. I doubt she would want to hear Castle side of the phone convo with Beckett but then Alexis characterization has been off all season.

 

I think the boat might be the same one from Disciple but it's probably the same marina from that ep.

 

Did notice to it's gonna be more like 9 weeks off airing hiatus instead of 5-6 weeks. Will be interesting to see the ratings when it comes back cause I was thinking it was gonna be .8-.9 for January eps. Now with the Feb airing date, I wonder if ABC is hoping to keep the 1.0-1.1 ratings if they just push thru with all new eps from Feb to May. I really wish they kept Forever and just done part of the season during winter and the rest in summer in Castle's time slot.

Edited November 24, 2015 by turnitwayup

[Chado]

They had to put that Beckett/Vikram scene in there so that they could explain that public defender guy works for Locksat.

 

In the scene where Castle told her she is the only one who could change her obsession, I thought I saw a flicker of recognition or something in Beckett's eyes. But then Espo interrupted.  I would have really loved to see a longer conversation there, because she seemed like she wanted to respond to that, but obviously that's not allowed.

 

I do think her apology about hurting him seemed sincere, but it was really weird they touched on her obsession and then just ignored it. They did have Castle say they should have done it together from the beginning, so it wasn't totally out of nowhere that he was okay with investigating when she said it. But weird that they had him bring it up if he wasn't going to follow through. There should have been a little more conversation before he took her back. I can see him forgiving her because she thought she was protecting him, but it just needed more discussion first.

The discovery about the public defender could have happened earlier in the episode, most of the boat scenes were pointless and just soaked up time. I just think the entire episode after the interrogation scene between Castle and Beckett made no sense, given what he said to her prior to everything else happening. You are right though, everything needed more discussion. It felt very jarring.

 

The problem I have with the obsession speech and then what you said here:

 

"They did have Castle say they should have done it together from the beginning, so it wasn't totally out of nowhere that he was okay with investigating when she said it."

 

Is that the situation has changed from when they could have done it from the beginning. Castle has seen her behavior, everything he said in the interrogation room is the 'here and now', it's relevant. What they could have done at the start is meaningless, time has passed. Beckett has made her choices, he has seen what she is valuing over him, over their relationship. They shouldn't be able to just reset and pretend as if she did come to him from the start, that's not what has happened.

 

I just don't see the sincerity from her at all, not when they don't even show how she went from investigating with Vikram and keeping Castle out, to the 'you were right'. It was entirely too rushed, there was no build up. They should have never got back together, Castle should of told her to leave.

 

If the obsession speech happened in another episode and they had spent this episode showing her thinking about it, having her have conversations with Lanie, I'd accept the sincerity. I'd accept that she has changed her mind. Nothing that happened this episode after the interrogation scene in any way warranted (or made believable) Beckett's change of heart.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chado

[verdana]

Here is the link to the first scene if any one wants a refresher.

 

Castle 8x08 Castle Confronts Beckett “Mr. & Mrs. Castle” Season 8 Episode 8

 

Listening to Castle's suggestion about how they could have worked around it still feels awkward on re-watch I felt sorry for Nathan there on that bit but I agree with KaveDweller that at the end she blinks as if his comment hit home, pity they had to have yet another interruption and we can't hear from Beckett, they deliberately seem to want to withhold moments that could be so useful in developing the characters more. Forget dirty talk I'd rather have them talk. 

[Chado]

Here is the link to the first scene if any one wants a refresher.

 

Castle 8x08 Castle Confronts Beckett “Mr. & Mrs. Castle” Season 8 Episode 8

 

Listening to Castle's suggestion about how they could have worked around it still feels awkward on re-watch I felt sorry for Nathan there on that bit but I agree with KaveDweller that at the end she blinks as if his comment hit home, pity they had to have yet another interruption and we can't hear from Beckett, they deliberately seem to want to withhold moments that could be so useful in developing the characters more. Forget dirty talk I'd rather have them talk. 

If a blink is the only thing we have to use as "proof" of her changing her mind, then boy is this show sinking fast.

 

She showed more emotion at the death of her lead in the case, and her answer of 'no' to Vikram's 'are you ok?' was only about the case, nothing to do with Castle.

 

I mean even in 'Always' we got her sitting on the swing in the rain, she isn't even shown to be thinking about her relationship after the conversation with Castle in interrogation.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Chado

[verdana]

And the final scene.

 

Castle 8x08 "Mr. & Mrs. Castle -Moments Caskett - End Scene Caskett Kiss and Bedroom

 

No still doesn't get any better on second viewing. Yeesh. 

 

A lot of the previews mentioned how angry Rick got, really? Because I didn't see that he was that angry at all, I thought his reaction was measured in the first exchange and way too flat and casual in the second. These people can't have seen many heated rows in their time that's all I can say lol.

[AntiBeeSpray]

God the ending in his apartment was terrible, the acting was AWFUL, stiff and forced,  it felt very flat. Nathan and Stana looked as if they were really struggling with the dialogue to get it out and make it seem natural, I think Nathan almost stumbled on a line or two I'd have to re-watch, they also seemed rushed and rather uncomfortable. That's the worst performance I think I've seen them ever give, there was zero chemistry there. It felt totally like something quickly tacked it on and they were asked to do on the fly.

 

I felt very sorry for the actors there, they're were having to deliver really clunky dialogue. Hawley thought that in any way brought back the Always vibes he's even more deluded than I thought.  They didn't address anything serious at all, Beckett didn't come over to me as even that bothered despite the "you were right about everything" line and the way she just walked in hands on hips kind of bugged me, their reunion was far too casually done. I just want to forget all this every happened. Sigh

 

Yea I saw a gif of it... and it was terrible. The kiss didn't even look real and the part where they went to the bed room was shot from a far, so I'm betting it was a double or their doubles in that shot.

[verdana]

She showed more emotion at the death of her lead in the case, and her answer of 'no' to Vikram's 'are you ok?' was only about the case, nothing to do with Castle.

I mean even in 'Always' we got her sitting on the swing in the rain, she isn't even shown to be thinking about her relationship after the conversation with Castle in interrogation.

Yeah I was expecting her to immediately mention Castle when Vikram asked her if she was okay and yet her first thought is about the dumb case and I was like...urgh. The writers don't seem to get that as a viewer you need certain things at key times to make you empathise with the character and I felt the Locksat case took over too much of what should have been spent developing the build up between those two Caskett scenes.

Beckett admits she made a misjudgement but there was no discussion about how she can avoid repeating this pattern of behaviour in the future and how much it hurt her husband. They could shock me and have a follow up but I doubt that will happen and them heading off to bed felt like that felt like some cheap distraction by the writers thinking if they threw in the teaser of make up sex it would divert attention from the weaknesses in the writing.

I bitch and whined about MilMar but give them their due in Always they got it right, that end scene was hugely emotional and packed a massive punch, this in comparison which should have been emotional too as Kate has this realisation about her husband felt flat, jarring in tone and underwhelming.

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[AntiBeeSpray]

Yeah I was expecting her to immediately talk about Castle when Vikram asked her if she was okay and yet she talked about the case and I was like...urgh, the writers don't seem to get that you need certain things at key times to make you empathise with the character and I felt the Locksat case took over too much of what should have been spent developing the build up between those two Caskett scenes.  Beckett admits she made a misjudgement but there was no discussion about how she can avoid repeating this pattern of behaviour in the future and how much it hurt her husband. They could shock me and have a follow up but I doubt that will happen and them heading off to bed felt like that felt like some cheap distraction by the writers thinking if they threw in the teaser of make up sex it would divert attention from the weaknesses in the writing. 

 

I bitch and whined about MilMar but give them their due in Always they got it right, that end scene was hugely emotional and packed a massive punch, this in comparison which should have been emotional too as Kate has this realisation about her husband felt flat, jarring in tone and underwhelming.  

 

This. Always was awesome. The chemistry and tone was still there. It gave me chills. I don't know what happened writing and other wise, but it's a damn shame seeing this show die as it has been over this season or so. Only bit I've seen, outside of the first episode, is tonights end clip. And it's been very underwhelming.

And the final scene.

 

Castle 8x08 "Mr. & Mrs. Castle -Moments Caskett - End Scene Caskett Kiss and Bedroom

 

No still doesn't get any better on second viewing. Yeesh. 

 

A lot of the previews mentioned how angry Rick got, really? Because I didn't see that he was that angry at all, I thought his reaction was measured in the first exchange and way too flat and casual in the second. These people can't have seen many heated rows in their time that's all I can say lol.

 

Yea it's really stilted. O_o It feels like a line read, if barely.

 

But I can see where Castle is coming from and I don't blame him for reacting the way he did.

[verdana]

Castle Fall Finale Recap: The Truth Shall Set You Free...? at TV LIne

 

Apparently he's doing a "quite candid" Q&A with the showrunners later, that should be....interesting.

 

Matt has confirmed Castle is back 1 Feb.

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[AntiBeeSpray]

Castle Fall Finale Recap: The Truth Shall Set You Free...? at TV LIne

 

Apparently he's doing a "quite candid" Q&A with the showrunners later, that should be....interesting.

 

Matt has confirmed Castle is back 1 Feb.

 

Yea it should be.

 

 

Ah.

[cappuccino]

Lame and stupid, is all I have to say about that last stunt they pulled.

[verdana]

Now they've reconciled I can hopefully get some semblance of the show I used to love back. 

 

If the showrunners truly believe the ending to this episode has made up for the last two months of glacial movement on this poorly written story arc they need to stop drinking that Castle Kool-Aid fast.  Their job was simple, to tell me a supposedly "compelling and dynamic" story and to show me how events as they unfolded impacted on the characters in a meaningful way whilst also making me empathise with their plight, they failed miserably on all counts. I have seen no growth here for either character or any evolution in their marriage.  

 

The showrunners (Hawley especially) seem to have rehashed the secrets and lies bullshit from S4 and tried to dress it up as something fresh and new - it wasn't.  Generating drama with no thought to the established characters history and current development is never a good thing and Castle and Beckett's relationship has suffered accordingly and the show has too. 

 

Unfortunately, I doubt their reconciliation will make a blind bit of difference to the storytelling in the future especially where Castle and Beckett are concerned, the writers clearly don't respect the characters sufficiently, they're hooked on twisting them to fit into plots that create drama for dramas sake. I predict further mistrust, arguments and apologies in the future but right I'm just mightily relieved this part is over (the first 8 episodes have been a waste of time in terms of Caskett development) and I can enjoy my Christmas build up knowing they're both on the same page. 

Edited November 24, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I've just realised Tamala wasn't in this episode unless I zoned out at some point, how much has she worked this season to date? I would love her job.  Regular pay cheque and lots of time off.