Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

The Bullpen

Wilowy

By Wilowy
in Criminal Minds

  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 2.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Droogie
Droogie

I adored Hotch.  I think he was stoic and honorable and felt as though the weight of the world was on his shoulders.  And as Reid is my favorite character, it was always dear to me, how Hotch never le

Danielg342
Danielg342

They're called "normal clothes", and, yeah, I miss that too.

JMO
JMO

The discussion about the upcoming 'Derek', and the promo for that episode brought me back to our prior two agent kidnappings.  It seems like this current set of writers has become progressively more v

normasm

normasm

I know Harry's the EP, but until they have an official press release, I'm not buying it. It's not that I think MGG's not in for next year, I'm 99.9% sure he is. It's just that Harry gushing about what he knows is growing tiresome. I want to hear actual details about Matthew's contract - is it for 1 year or more? - so HB yammering on about "trust me, I know, just hush up" is just noise.

 

Oh, and that DVD cover is just offensive. They might as well have just pushed Jeanne a little to the left, so AJ could have covered her more completely.

  • Love 2
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

My point is that Harry, regardless if you find him tiresome or not, would not be allowed to declare that Matthew is signed unless he actually is. And it isn't 'just noise'... it's accurate information. 

 

Matthew's actually been signed for months and they are under no obligation to declare the conditions of his contract, either. I'm sure they eventually will, but even with those details undisclosed it doesn't make it any less true that he's back. 

normasm

normasm

I got your point just fine, Willowy, but if I consider Harry's posting and teasing and messing with people "noise," then it is indeed noise. To me. And, again, if you are privy to the status of MGG's contract, I may believe you when you say he has been signed for months, or question your statement. Basically, unless MGG himself states the details, I won't consider it a fact until the official press release.

ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

(edited)

Really? Matthew has been signed for MONTHS and it just has never made the news at all? And Harry was willing to basically lie to the fandom then? It's one thing to just ignore questions for the sake of preserving some big reveal in the season finale, because he is under no obligation to answer every question or tweet (though Harry had no problem winding the fandom up with his deliberate misdirects), but to flat out lie?

 

Amanda Jones ‏@alj0569  Apr 8
@LLPOS soo final read through for s9, please can you tell us if Matthew and Jeanne are signed for s10?

 

Harry Bring ‏@LLPOS  Apr 8
@alj0569 Dunno.

 

JT + AB = forever ‏@Unsubwayy  Apr 8
@LLPOS that answer scares me

 

Harry Bring @LLPOS
@Unsubwayy don't worry. contracts take time to work out.

 

Tripplehorn∞ ‏@laura_markus  Apr 10
@LLPOS @Unsubwayy I thought everyone's contract was signed? :O oh no!!!

 

Harry Bring ‏@LLPOS  Apr 10
@laura_markus @Unsubwayy There's a couple not done yet but I'm not worried. It never does any good to worry. Too many Tums. Hahaha

 

Then he got sick of fielding questions about who was returning (understandable).

 

Harry Bring @LLPOS  ·  Apr 21
I'm not responding at all to any more questions on who's returning. We will ALL have to wait until mid May when everything is announced.

 

It's just odd that there has been no official announcement in the entertainment news yet  about Matthew's contract status when there was two years ago. What are they waiting for? 

Edited by ForeverAlone
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

Yes, FA, MONTHS. And they could not disclose anything until now. You can believe it if you like, or not. I do have proof, though I'm under no obligation to show it to you, I have shown it to others. 

 

So, normasm, you don't believe Matthew is returning, and won't until HE says something (Matthew rarely if ever talks about his contracts) or there's an official press release? Even though the Executive Producer of the show has said it's official?

ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

No, I don't really care about your proof. I just find it weird there has been no official mention in the news, when there was plenty of it two years ago when Matthew re-signed. 

 

And I do have to agree with normasm that it is tiresome for Harry to frequently misdirect the fandom or deliberately wind them up to get some sort of reaction. He did it plenty in the run up to the finale, and it was tiresome. 

ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

Maybe it lightened the mood for you, but it riled up a good chunk of the fandom who saw those tweets, and unnecessarily. And I'm not just talking about Reid fans, but all fans based on what he was writing, because he certainly implied it could have been one of the actors who signed their contracts the previous year. And it's perfectly okay for him to be glib about losing Alex? Yeah, her character may have had the smallest fanbase, but she had fans nonetheless who were sad to see her leave. There was no reason for him to do that except to deliberately screw with the fandom's emotions.

  • Love 3
ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

The ones I spoke to were unnecessarily riled up and pissed off. I just don't think it is particularly good or professional to deliberately wind up your fandom. Other shows' producers do it, and it can often end up in a backlash, because I don't think many fans like to be messed with. There was some definite anger at the overhype of death and danger for the seasons 7 and 8 finales, and they pulled that some tiresome trick again. It's like they can't just let the work speak for itself and let the show unfold as it does. 

  • Love 1
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

Well, people were demanding to know everything ahead of time, regardless of the fact that he had told them many, many times that he couldn't disclose anything. So, he began stoking their speculation with admitted misdirection. People didn't have to play if they didn't want to, everyone knew what he was doing. It wasn't like he was pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. And it was all done in fun. Talk to anyone who works with Harry, he's much beloved and a total non-asshole. 

normasm

normasm

Thanks, FA. I'm glad you and some others agree the way Harry has behaved lately has turned some fans off. That and the stupid overhyping of supposed character death and non-return by TPTB. The icing on the cake is Harry casually poo-pooing fans' concern/curiosity with regard to MGG's contract by implying that we should just take his word and get over it.

 

If you string people along who follow you on social media, you should be prepared to have some take offense. And if you post on a forum that you have inside information but can't give details, be prepared to have some view you as seeking attention. While I'm sure MGG is returning, I will not take anyone's "word" for it but his, and I do want the details, thank you very much, Harry.

  • Love 1
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

One can't help but think that it isn't the information you find suspect, normasm, but the informant. 

 

I never said I couldn't share the information, but that I was under no obligation to. And a hostile environment doesn't make me any more prone to do so. Friends have seen the proof with their own eyes, some of whom are here on this very site. I imagine they aren't speaking for fear of being attacked themselves. 

 

Tell me, what's "attention seeking" about having information and wanting to share it? And when the information does come out, and I'm proven correct? What then, I wonder. 

zannej

zannej

(edited)

It is one thing for Harry to string fans along to try to get them to watch the show to see what is going to happen-- it is another to tell a lie about a contract status. If he lied about the contracts he could get in trouble with CBS.

 

There doesn't have to be a press release every single time an actor signs on. Maybe CBS considers it low priority or figure that the news is already out on the internet so why bother. Or maybe they are waiting for closer to the season starting to make announcements. A lack of announcement doesn't mean that the negotiations aren't finished.

 

Honestly, this is getting close to entering in to ad hominen argument phase. So, on that note....

 

I like cheese. I wonder how many of the BAU team members like cheese and what kind they like....

Edited by zannej
  • Love 3
mstaken

mstaken

I'm just glad MGG will still be on the show. 

 

I wonder how many of the BAU team members like cheese and what kind they like...

 

Does anyone on the planet NOT like cheese?! *does not compute* 

 

Seriously, what kind of movies, books and TV shows do you think each team member likes? Are we allowed to speculate about that on here? Because, yes, I'm pathetic enough to actually wonder about these things :) 

  • Love 2
zannej

zannej

I don't know if I've ever met someone who didn't like cheese. I know people who are lactose intolerant who love cheese-- one of them works at Pizza Hut.

 

Reid doesn't seem like much of a salad person-- I remember someone offering one to Reid and he said "I don't want this". 

The team members seem to like Chinese food. I can't remember what each of them was eating in that episode where JJ taught Reid the rubberband trick with chopsticks. I absolutely loved the comedy of Matthew making it look like he couldn't get the food to his mouth when he actually does know how to use chopsticks-- but he did it so well that it looked natural.

 

One of these days I'm going to go back and look at what the team members are eating/drinking and figure out what they had. I know Reid liked cookies. Hotch was given brownies...

 

I can't tell on alcoholic drinks.

 

I vaguely recall JJ being grossed out by some Chinese takeout when she was pregnant, but she normally might have liked that food.

 

A writer once told me that a good writer knows what their character ate for breakfast 2 years ago.

 

There really should be fact sheets about each character-- likes, dislikes, important events, favorite colors, family members, etc. They need to have this information for the writers. I know they tried to claim they had a show "bible" but then they said it was the memory of Rick and Erica. /facepalm

 

I know that I'm not a producer and never have been one, but I would seriously insist on fact sheets for all characters.

 

Even though minute details are not always important to the plot and won't even make it on screen most of the time, I learned that in order for actors to really believe in their characters, they need to be "real"  and have favorites, things they hate, things they love, things they like, and things they dislike.

  • Love 2
zannej

zannej

I could see Reid eating / drinking healthier things to stave off migraines, but he always struck me as someone who ate a bit of junk food. With his schedule, I don't think he would ever have time to cook elaborate meals, but I think he'd have time for eggs and toast-- possibly pancakes. 

 

I imagine he probably has cabinets full of canned soup and instant meals. I can see him liking hot pockets or something-- at least earlier season's Reid.

 

He's been shown drinking tea more often, so maybe Reid might be trying to eat healthier to adjust for the metabolic changes that come with age. It would be interesting if they ever commented on that on the show.

 

Morgan is probably a health nut when it comes to food because he needs to maintain his figure.

 

Not sure on Hotch and Rossi.

 

Whatever JJ is doing is making her too thin and she needs to put on a few pounds of fat.

  • Love 2
mstaken

mstaken

(edited)

Now you have me wondering what each team member reads in the relatively little leisure time they get! My guesses:

 

Hotch: Nonfiction, especially re. history, politics, sociology, etc., and tons of newspapers

 

Emily: We already know she loves Vonnegut and is a self-described nerd, so I'm thinking she likes smart, slightly offbeat fiction and is open to a few different genres.

 

Rossi: I've never met a writer who doesn't read books within his own genre, so I'm thinking he must keep up with the latest true crime novels. I could also see him as a lover of mysteries and crime fiction. 

 

Morgan: He claimed to like Vonnegut as well, but I just don't see him as all that Vonnegut-y. I'd find it amusing if he had a secret soft spot for romance novels---one of those guys who started reading them to gain insight into the female psyche and found himself hooked :)

 

JJ: I can't see her as a reader. She seems to have a great disdain for fantasy/sci-fi stuff, so I think we can cross that off the list of stuff she reads. I can see her reading mostly magazines and maybe newspapers. Now that she has Henry, I could see her reading a few nonfiction books related to child rearing.   

 

Garcia: Comic books! Along with some sci-fi fantasy stuff :) 

 

Blake: Classic literature and books on linguistics 

 

Reid: Everything. Literally everything.  

Edited by mstaken
  • Love 1
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

"She found a clean bowl, then grabbed a can of soup from his cupboard, heating it in the microwave..."

 

"Spencer lay on the sofa with his head in JJ’s lap, asleep. She’d put on one of his classical albums, Beethoven was too severe so she chose Schubert and and fixed him a hot pocket (god how did he eat those things) from his freezer. Now she sat absently stroking his poor, sore head as he slept peacefully, a copy of Neil Gaiman’s “Neverwhere” in her other hand."

 

Ha ha, zannej, you've been reading my stories. ;)

 

mstaken I wank that JJ harbors a curiosity about Sci-Fi, but was ridiculed when she read it in high school, so now she sneers at it in public to cover, even though Neil Gaiman is secretly her favorite author. Heh. Love all your other guesses, and YEP, Garcia's a comic book reader! *whispers* "One of us... one of us..." 

  • Love 2
SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

Not sure what their food favorites are, but in listening to the comments on my Leverage DVDs I learned that you will frequently see characters in TV shows eating Chinese food because it's easy to film. With those cartons, you can't see how much they've consumed, so when they have to do several takes they don't have to worry about the continuity. It made me think of that scene at the end of The Instincts where everyone but Reid is having dinner in the Chinese restaurant.

  • Love 2
zannej

zannej

I bet Reid is a master of microwave cooking. I've found that you can cook a lot of things in the microwave if you have the right tools. (There are some microwave rice cooking containers that you can use to cook marinated liver, chicken, soup, noodles, and all sorts of stuff). I think you can even cook asparagus and eggs in the microwave if you do it properly. I've never tried.

 

I can't remember what Hotch said he made for Jack.. Was it oatmeal? I can see Hotch as a reader of non-fiction as well. I can also see him reading legal articles to keep up on the laws. I also think that he secretly reads the comic strip section (funny papers?) for entertainment. He probably watches some old cartoons with Jack (I don't think he'd want to let Jack watch some of the modern stuff because it is absolutely brain rotting). He probably found a way to get recordings of The Electric Company, Square One TV, and stuff like that. I can picture Hotch secretly enjoying old Disney movies as well as The Muppets, Sesame Street, and Bugs Bunny. He might have some National Geographic magazines.

 

I can see Rossi reading stuff about stock markets and financial stuff as well as true crime stories. He probably reads a bit of entertainment news to keep up on Ringo.

 

Morgan probably reads all about sports and fitness and likely has a lot of Sports Illustrated swimsuit editions.

 

For some reason I can picture JJ reading some younger generation books like Nancy Drew, The Bobbsey Twins, Hardy Boys, and light/short books. Maybe she reads books that are compilations of tales. I could see her also reading fairy tale books for Henry. I could also see her reading sports news. She may get the newspaper from her small town or wherever her mother lives.

 

Apparently Reid had not read Twilight (unless he was just messing with people in that episode). I could see him starting to read it, getting disgusted, and dropping it.

 

SSAHotchner, interesting bit about the Chinese food containers. Man, I wish I could have some Chinese food right now.

 

I think that Rossi probably drinks gourmet coffee and has gourmet meals. I'm debating whether or not he has a cleaning lady and/or cook. He does no how to cook, but he seems like he'd want someone to do that for him after a hard day of work. On one hand, he is practically an ocd neat freak but I can't see him doing his own laundry or cleaning his own home. On the other, he would be wary of people stealing his stuff. He probably did extensive background checks and has hidden security cameras to catch any wrongdoing though. 

 

I know that Thomas Gibson mentioned liking grits and biscuits. I suppose I could see Hotch liking those things too. I'd love to see him return to his hometown and run in to an old lady who used to feed him when he was a kid and he'd be excited that she was going to cook some of his favorite food.

Danielg342

Danielg342

Yeah, I never really bought the Vonnegut/Morgan thing, mainly because I wouldn't think of Morgan being much of a reader. Most of his spare time would likely be consumed with working out and playing pick up sports, and- before Savannah anyway- going out to nightclubs to pick up women. Perhaps he just chanced upon Vonnegut one day- maybe when he was rehabbing from the knee injury in high school- and fell in love with his stuff, with Vonnegut being the only fiction he reads.

Another salient point to note is that every time Morgan is alone in the plane he's got his headphones on, jamming away at his music. So I could picture him being a music junkie, listening to all kinds of music, perhaps in particular hip hop. However, I don't think he'd be into the Lil' Waynes or the 50 Cents of the world- he'd be more into socially conscious stuff like Talib Kweli, the '90s scene with Biggie and 2Pac and likely old school stuff like Grandmaster Flash. I believe the only artist that we *know* Morgan listens to is Nas (which would be in character)- correct me if I'm wrong, but those were the lyrics Blake was caught mouthing when Reid picked up that something was off about her several episodes back.

If you really want to fanwank, though, you could extrapolate that Morgan is a budding musician himself and maybe helps promote others too...but there's so far little evidence of that.

  • Love 1
zannej

zannej

(edited)

I could see Morgan reading in some of his quiet time on a rainy day when he wants to give his ears a rest and he doesn't feel like going out. Perhaps one of his lady friends turned him on to Vonnegut or maybe it was Gideon or Hotch and he decided to give it a read.

 

Morgan is an obsessional crimes expert so maybe there was a case involving it at one point and he gave it a read. He used to be portrayed as more intellectual than he is now.

 

On a side note, I was discussing "100" with some people and one of the things that I did like was how the different team members responded to the interrogation with Strauss. I can't remember all of the reactions. I think Morgan was defensive, but someone can correct me. I don't remember JJ's talk with Strauss. I know Rossi was dismissive and flippant. Prentiss was angry. Hotch was devastated. Garcia was an emotional nervous wreck. Reid was calm and polite yet still exuded empathy.

Edited by zannej
Danielg342

Danielg342

I seem to recall JJ being intimidated by Strauss, feeling- like the rest of the team- that the whole series of interviews was a waste of time. I think she tried her best to hide her fear of Strauss but it seemed clear to me that JJ was rattled by the ordeal.

One thing that did bug me about the interrogations was that Reid was asked a tactical question when it should have been Morgan answering the question. I get that perhaps each team member was likely asked the same set of questions but it still didn't make sense to me that Reid was shown to be the authority on that question when it should have been Morgan.

As far as Morgan's reaction was concerned- I don't recall much, but I think he was annoyed at having to be in there, deciding only to do it because duty required him to.

Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

I love this exchange, I can hear his voice, inflection, cadence... everything:

 

Erin Strauss: You left for marshal Kassmeyer’s house immediately?

Spencer Reid: Yes, ma’am.

Erin Strauss: Wouldn’t this be a job for a tactical team?

Spencer Reid: We felt that it would take too much time to get authorization for another operation.

Erin Strauss: We?

Spencer Reid: All of us.

Erin Strauss: Don’t you mean agent Hotchner wanted that?

Spencer Reid: No, I mean all of us wanted that. I know what you’re thinking, and I agree it would be easy for us to blame him.

Erin Strauss: Easy?

Spencer Reid: Yeah, why not just say it’s his fault and then we can all just forget about it. But, uh, the problem is, I have an eidetic memory, and that’s not what happened.


Also, didn't Morgan raise his voice? Like "No. He. Did. Not!" to Strauss? I seem to remember that. 

zannej

zannej

Thanks, Willowy. I could have sworn that Morgan was bristling a bit and I do think he might have raised his voice. I know that in the end they had Strauss offering Hotch an out and it seemed like she was being nice, but at the same time I couldn't help but feel like she was using the tragedy as an opportunity to eliminate Hotch as competition for a higher job. It was actually something I liked because it showed that she could be sympathetic but at the same time she was still looking out for herself and trying to stay ahead on the career ladder.

Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

This episode marks a turning point for me with Strauss. While she was interrogating all the agents I was all "Bitch!". But then... her last words after questioning Aaron, and seeing the depth of his grief etched into his face... she just dropped all bluster and pretense and nearly in tears herself, though she tried to cover, said "That's good enough for me." Then she glared at the rest of the panel, asking, yet daring them to go further. 

 

She was on our team's side from there on in, even though she'd still be adversarial from time to time, she never went back to the deliberately mean stoneheart Director's toady she used to be. 

zannej

zannej

Realistically, OIG would have cleared Hotch for killing Foyett. The fact that he stabbed Hotch, tortured and killed a US Marshall, and then murdered Hotch's ex-wife was enough of a motivator. Anytime that someone kills law enforcement or their families, the LEOs can be brutal. It used to be pretty rare for those types to live to trial. 

 

I actually did NOT get the vibe that Strauss was on their side though. I did get that she felt sorry for Hotch and I do think there was a little bit of pity for Reid when torture was mentioned, but even scumbags can show some signs of kindness from time to time. When Strauss told Hotch about the retirement option, I immediately thought that she was pretending to be kind and that she was taking the opportunity to eliminate him as competition for director of the FBI. That even after all he'd been through she was still saw him as a threat and wanted to end his career to ensure her chance at climbing the ladder ahead of him. I actually found that a bit more interesting and believable than her suddenly caring about the team and being on their side. There was an ambiguity there that I liked. I was wondering when/if she was going to turn around and try to sabotage him or the team again.

 

I personally think it would have been more interesting if they'd kept her as an antagonist-- or ambiguous so you wouldn't know or trust her motives, instead of making her a protagonist.

  • Love 1
Wilowy

Wilowy

  • Author

We disagree. I didn't see her thinking of Hotch's resignation and acceptance of retirement as anything having to do with herself. To me, she presented it as a gift. A way to lift his burden, and she was surprised when he didn't snatch it up right away.

 

Hotch was never a threat to Strauss, and I never picked up on any dynamic like that coming into play. He wanted the BAU, she was Section Chief. The lines were clearly drawn and easily accepted between them.

ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

(edited)

In the early days, Strauss very clearly viewed Hotch as a threat in my opinion. She seemed to look for every opportunity to undermine him and the team. I never got the impresssion in the early years she respected the BAU or at least she viewed Hotch as career competition, which made a bit of sense, because Hotch was painted as more ambitious and career driven for advancement in the first couple of seasons. Hell, Strauss put Emily on the team precisely because she expected her to inform on him and the team to her. She had a very strange focus on Hotch and she definitely seemed out to get him. When he decided to come back to the BAU at the start of season three, she made it very clear he would rise no further.

I too had the same impression of Strauss when she offered him early retirement. Sure on some level she seemed to sympathize with him, but I also viewed her motivations as a bit underhanded and self serving, because she saw an opportunity to get rid of him.

Edited by ForeverAlone
  • Love 1
JMO

JMO

(edited)

For me, Strauss' behavior after '100', both in her interactions about offering Hotch retirement, and her interviews with the team, were flavored by earlier episodes.  She did, indeed, facilitate Emily's getting to the BAU to place a mole in their midst.  This was the largest contributor to Emily's deciding to leave the team at the same time that Hotch was initially leaving.  It was in that episode (forget the name, but it had Eddie Ciprian) that he told her about Strauss viewing him as a rival, and a possible obstacle, in her rise to the top.  He also noted it was a one-sided rivalry. 

 

So, even though her behavior might not have been overtly suspect after '100', I couldn't help but look for (and easily see) a hidden agenda on her part. 

Edited by JustMyOpinion
  • Love 1
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...