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Jane and Casey (Or Not?)

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I'm moving the discussion that I accidentally started on the Small Talk thread over here.  Here are the posts that are over there...

I know people want more Maura and Jane, less men in their lives, but not me.  Personally, I really like the Casey/Jane storyline, and I know that a lot of fans disagree, but I can relate to the angst.  To love someone doesn't necessarily mean its all sunshine and roses.  To love your job, to have your job define you, and to realize that one of you has to give that up to be together?  It sucks, but it happens.  And then throw in a pregnancy?  Yeah.  I can relate to Jane's choice.  In a way, I envy it.  I gave up my career to be with my husband when I found out I was pregnant, and there are definitely days when I wish I could have made a different choice.  I love him.  I love my daughter.  But I loved my job, too.  And if I had had a friend like Maura at my job?  There's a darn good chance I'd be a single mother right now.  And there would be days I regretted the choice.  Either way, it's a losing situation.  I like seeing that on TV, and I hope they don't gloss over it by writing Casey out and making Jane forget about him.

IndependentMind

Yest. @ 12:34 pm

My issue with Jane/Casey relationship never had anything to do because I want Maura and Jane together. I am not a shipper of a romantic relationship between them. Although i can understand why a lot of people do. But.I am shipper of their friendship. My issue with Jane/Casey relationship is that he is selfish. Their relationship has always been about him. He decides when their relationship starts and ends. When they first broke up its because he had to go back on duty and told Jane to move ob. Then he comes back and didn't tell her. Then he gives this excuse that if he cant feel her due to his injury he can't be with her. Never mind that didn't matter to her. He comes because he can after all have sex with her. Then he pretty much gave Jane an ultimatum. Its not a proposal to me. Basically, marry me so I can retire or I have no be the General. Really? So Jane decides she will marry him. And alas, he tells her military is his life and he can't see himself doing anything else. So he tells her "He is waiting for her." He expects her to move across the world. leave her job, her family, her team and her best friend. Why because his job is more important than her? I'm sure Casey is a great guy but he is all about himself.

I happen to love Jane and I just hate how she has been written in the past three seasons and it has to do for some reason when there is a man in her life. I don't know why Janet Tamaro writes Maura and Jane this way. These women value themselves very highly but when there is a man they just devalue themselves. For Maura there was Ian. Then Dennis the serial killer. Dennis leaves and doesn't contact her. The moment he shows up she goes out with him.

But out of the two, Jane was written the worse. They even put in Martinez whom I detest. And she was tempted to cheat with him. I have no respect for a man who pursues a woman he knows is n a committed relationship.

Edited by IndependentMind, Yest. @ 1:40 pm.

Kristen

Yest. @ 1:46 pm

My main issue with Jane and Casey is that the relationship is so unearned. He's not around most of the time, he's this guy from her past so that's supposed to make up for the lack of building his character? We're not given a chance to get to know him or them as a couple except for a few episodes here and there because he's very conveniently in the army. I don't know how they expect us to buy that he's the love of her life when she has more chemistry with even Korsak than she does with her supposed great love.

That being said my other problem with Jane and Casey is that what I like about this show (and yes, I think Jane and Maura would be hot together, but I know that's not a thing and never will be a thing) is that it's about two smart, strong women who are exceptional in their fields, and who are not only NOT defined by their romantic relationships with men or seemingly desperate search for a man, and who also aren't in competition with each other for men. It's kinda rare, even in this day and age, to have female BFFs who aren't grossly catty with each other. Angie and Sasha have great friend chemistry, it shows, and they play on it quite well. It's one of the good points of the show. Let's face it, it's not a brilliant crime drama. We're not here for the puzzle, we're here for the interpersonal stuff.

 

Okay, I'm also here to gawk at Sasha Alexander, but that's another issue. How can someone be so elegant and sophisticated and also adorkable? HOW?

IndependentMind

Yest. @ 2:09 pm

I agree with you Kristen. I find myself scratching my head whenever Casey shows up and Jane turns into another person. In my opinion, not only is he selfish but he is a jerk as well. As was Dean, Grant and Martinez.

 


I agree, Casey has been selfish.  BUT, he was thinking like a real, flawed, human.  Not a television super person.  And I like seeing that on TV.  I like that people don't necessarily think logically about whether they should or shouldn't love someone.  I guess maybe it hits extra close to home for me, but I get it.  I understand Casey's side of the story.  I can see how he thought leaving was best for Jane.  But maybe it's just me.

That said, I also understand why it won't work.  Because if the show tries to make it work, it would be a disservice to both of the characters.  They are both too defined by what they do for them to ever compromise sufficiently for them to both be happy.  Even so, it sucks, because they can't be happy apart, either.  At least for now.  Perhaps they will move on, but a possible baby makes that so much harder to do.

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I think actually, Jane is okay with them being apart. She likes the long distance relationship. She likes having her space. But its Casey who wants her there all the time.

I just don't like people who are selfish. And the things he does makes him a real jerk. Its a one sided relationship because everything is up to him and he makes Jane feel guilty about it.

I think Jane realizes that if she followed Casey and she moves there because of the baby, she will resent him. And it probably end in a divorce and that is something she doesn't want. She believes that if she is pregnant she has enough support in Boston that and the child will be fine if she is a single mother. Plus its not like Casey will be home to help take care of the child anyway. He will be off somewhere

Edited by IndependentMind

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That's a good point.  She does like keeping him at a distance.  And I understand about the relationship being all on Casey's terms. But I do'nt think that necessarily makes him selfish, at least not to the point of being a jackass.  True, I'm concerned that if she doesn't just cut ties, it will continue like it's always been- him showing up and messing with her whenever he feels like it, and jerking her heart around in the process.  But then again, maybe Casey is perfect for her since she doesn't want to/is unable to commit to a full time relationship.  She seems to like the short periods of intense relations followed by him disappearing and giving her space.  Although Maura said she just felt that way because she was scared of committment.  I think she does want to keep Casey in her life, just not on his terms.  Maybe having a baby will help keep him in her life in short bursts when he's not overseas.  It seems logical to me that she'd prefer to just move on without him, but that didn't work the last time he tried to get her to move on.  She really does love him.  I'm curious to see where the new showrunner will take the story, and I really and truly hope it doesn't just get swept under the rug.

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For me, it's not specifically about Casey, but just the fact the characters' love lives are by far the least-interesting aspects of them.  So when Casey is just dropping in when he's on leave, that's fine - and I love that Jane is so happy to see him, but then quickly gets annoyed at having him in her space - but once they started this ultimatum crap, then dragged it out some more after acknowledging that neither one of them wants to give up their careers in order to live together full time, and then threw in this stupid pregnancy (which I'm hoping is just a scare; I didn't see that episode) ... it's taking too much time away from what I watch the show for, which is the friendship between Jane and Maura and the interaction among the colleagues.

Edited by Bastet
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I think Jane just wants a man in her life, any man. Look how tempted she was when Martinez was flirting with her. She was going there but thought better of it.

And when Dean came back what did she do? She jumped right in bed with him.

That is my issue with Jane. she looks desperate to just have a man to sleep with her that she doesn't even see how they treat her.

I don't even think she and Casey had a real relationship. It is one when he is around.

And Indo think he is a jerk for giving her that ultimatum. And for telling her that military is his life and he wants her to drop everything and move where he is. He was already a jerk to me when he came back before, ignored her and didnt want to have anything to do with her because he can't perfom and have sex with her. His ego is bruised. And when he found out he can have can perform, he came back. Then Jane jumps right in bed with him. I lost a lot of respect for Jane the past 3 seasons and that is why I was really pissed at Janet Tamaro hoe she had written her. I hope Jan Nash does a better job at writing the Jane I came to love in season 1.

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My opinion is that Janet Tamaro invented Casey as a panicked reaction to Rizzles shippers seeing Jane and Maura as possible lovers.  Casey wasn’t in season one at all and he’s not in Tess Gerritsen’s books.  Tamaro wrote every episode of R&I that he was in.

I believe Tamaro created him to reinforce her insistence on Jane’s heterosexuality.  But she did such a poor job of it that Casey never seemed real; he was a paper doll in fatigues, brought out now and then to distract Jane.  His injury was “mis-diagnosed;” his recovery was unrealistic (he supposedly ran 12 miles in his leg braces.)  Mistakes were repeatedly made in military nomenclature (that final e-mail has his rank and service branch wrong).

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The funny thing to me is that how could she not expect there to be Rizzles. I mean I don't usually kiss my best friend on the cheek unless it's a greeting. 

But she did such a poor job with all the men in Jane's life. They all seemed like jerks. And it did not put Jane in a good light at all.

Honestly though, I believe Ian to be the "love of Maura's life" more than I will believe that Casey is "love of Jane's life" because i just don't see it. The things Maura did for Ian and it shows that they had a past. But Jane and Casey, they look like they just met. The whole "high school" crush she had was really not believable at all.

I also believe that she loved Garrett in college. Her reaction to him when she first saw him in the Fairfield mansion was that of sadness and love. 

Now, is it because of Sasha's amazing acting skills that she is able to convince me? I also found Maura and BT cute together.

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The funny thing to me is that how could she not expect there to be Rizzles. I mean I don't usually kiss my best friend on the cheek unless it's a greeting. 

My best friend?  No.  But my sister?  Yes.  If I had a best friend as close as a sister... That is the relationship between these women.

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...it's taking too much time away from what I watch the show for, which is the friendship between Jane and Maura and the interaction among the colleagues.

Yes, yes, yes, yes! Thank you!

Edited by Kristen
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But Janet Tamaro should have known there would be Rizzles.

For me, I only see friendship between them. But to others, they see more than that.

It doesnt help that they bring in love interests who are not worthy of them

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True.  Even my husband said while passing through the roonm while I was watching Jane and Maura together "I can see why people right fanfiction about those two." 

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Tamaro told the Los Angeles Times, the questions are understandable because the show features “two gorgeous actresses together who have great, natural chemistry” and says Harmon’s Rizzoli and Alexander’s Isles “are straight women who don’t fear the interest in or the speculation about their relationship.”

She followed up by telling TV Guide: "The lesbian theory endlessly amuses me, and it amuses the cast. Rizzoli and Isles have been heterosexual from the first episode, though there is no way I would want to interfere with my viewers’ fantasy lives."

http://www.afterellen.com/rizzoli-isles-arent-gay-they-just-act-that-way/07/2011/

I think JTam had no idea of the sexual chemistry between Jane and Maura until fans embraced it.  She then went on a long campaign of denial, inventing Casey and other beards, trying to downplay Rizzles.  It didn't work. I don't know what Jan Nash will give us in season 5, but I'm confident it will get better.  

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Funny that fans call the men they bring in for Jane as beards and yet, unless I am wrong here, I have never heard that said about Garrett, Ian or Dennis or BT, for Maura.

Sasha and Angie have undeniable chemistry. Toi bad I cant say that she has great chemistry with the actors who played Dean and Casey. I do think she had chemistry with Donnie Wahlberg. I cant stand Martinez so I wont even include him.

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Funny that fans call the men they bring in for Jane as beards and yet, unless I am wrong here, I have never heard that said about Garrett, Ian or Dennis or BT, for Maura.

 

Dorothy Snarker over at AfterEllen refers to any romantic interests for either of them as "beards", though I can see how some people tend to use the term more regarding Jane; she's the more tomboyish one. Of course, besides the chemistry between the both of them, I think there's a natural inclination to want  to think that a female cop/detective like Jane or Olivia Benson on SVU is on Team Gay. They're feminine, but not like Maura is feminine, and damn, they are easy on the eyes. There's a lot of wishful thinking going on. haha

Edited by Kristen

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If I were writing this show, I would add just enough ambivalence to the relationship between Jane and Maura to keep the wishful thinkers happy. All others probably won't think much of the ambivalence.

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At the very least, if they simply have to give them love interests, make them, ya know, interesting! 

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All the guys they have paired Jane with in my opinion are losers. Casey is selfish. I never found him sweet at all. Dean used her to get Paddy. Joey used her to get ahead in his career. 

 

I thought the way Janet Tamaro wrote Jane was awful from seasons 2-4. The way she went from Casey back to Dean and back to Casey was just not Jane-like. I thought Jane was supposed to be the conservative one. But she jumps in bed with Casey and then Dean and back to Casey just like that. Then they even brought in Martinez to mess things up 

 

As for Maura, I was not crazy about Ian. But I did like BT a lot. I thought Sasha and Eric Winter had a great chemistry. Too bad Eric Winter got that gig on CW and could not come back on the show again. Although, he made it clear he wants to. 

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The show bares hardly a passing resemblance to the books it is based on, but in them, IIRC, Jane gets married within the first few books to an FBI agent who knocks her up after a brief fling. She has a happy family life, but it is such a small part of the books, I don't even remember what the name of her husband and daughter are. Jane and Maura are very close friends in the books but never as "single ladies".  I've never shipped either of them with any of their show boyfriends. They are all boring.

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As someone upthread mentioned, not that tptb follow the books, but the baby storyline is in the books. Only it's with Dean the fbi agent. It's been awhile since I read the books but it's kind of the same story. Dean wants Jane to move to D.C. with him, she says no, they break up, she finds out she's pregnant. Then a couple of months later, Dean comes back to Boston for a case.and finds her waddling around. They end up marrying and have a baby girl. Personally, I like Dean be


I like Dean better because I think the actor's better looking (I'm so shallow), but the way the boyfriends are written, Jane can stay single.

 

Sorry about the broken post, my computer hates me

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As the song lyrics go "They are never ever getting back together" Jane (and for that matter) Maura will never have any significant relationships outside of each other because the focus of the show is on the two women.

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I'm curious if there will even be a mention of Casey in tonight's episode.  If she goes through a miscarriage without notifying him, I'll totally call foul.  But it wouldn't surprise me.

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I would not be surprised if he becomes an afterthought. Look at what Jane said to Maura, she wanted Maura to have look after her child if anythig happens to her. What about Casey? Doesn't he have a say about his child too? 

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My main problem with the Jane and Casey relationship is that is is very, very poorly developed with lackluster chemistry between the two actors as well as the two characters. 5 years of Casey and I still don't really know his character at all. The reason behind this is:

1. We never see how Casey and Jane met, which I believe if the writers were truly committed to this relationship, they would show. Because of that, there is no kinship formed with the couple because the audience never really knows what their dynamic is. 

2. Casey is only used as a plot device. Whenever the story lags or there isnt any movement, they bring him in to stir the pot. He asks Jane to come with him, or asks her to be with him, she is usually unhappy because of some or the other contrived "complication", then he leaves, she's sad for an episode and then she goes back to hanging out with her family and best friend. Wash, rinse, repeat.

3. Now, this is my opinion entirely, but Chris Vance and Angie Harmon have awkward, lukewarm chemistry. Neither does he seem on the same wavelength as her as an artist, nor as the character. When Casey comes, Jane Rizzoli a fairly unique character, comes across as either a totally different, cookie-cutter woman with no gumption or then she seems kind of disinterested and aloof. I can't tell if this is the writing or the actors, my guess is a little of both. And Jane acts the same way with all romantic interests (the way Maura acts exactly the same, yet out of character way with her serial killers/love interests).

4. The way Jane and Maura are written - I'm sorry, but best friends, no matter how close do not act that way with each other. (See: Meredith & Cristina on Grey's Anatomy, Rachel & Monica on Friends, JD & Turk on Scrubs etc.) The gals on Grey's always lie around in bed together, eat every meal together, stay in touch all day, prioritize each other over their love interests - and yet MerDer and Owen/Cristina have been two of the biggest couples on primetime TV; nobody ever doubts the Meredith/Cristina relationship is anything but friendship. The way Jane acts with Maura is so, so vastly different from the way she acts with Casey and I can't tell if this is intentional or simply a product of the actresses' chemistry with each other. Lingering looks, constant touching, suggestive smiles, possessiveness and protectiveness are a few traits which the Casey and Jane relationship should have but other than sex they don't have any of these. Instead, the writers have made Jane and Maura have constant interactions of this variety. Right off the bat, from the pilot, the average audience compares this show with Bones and Castle, its leaden with 'Will they, won't they' potential. And I think this hinders the ladies' relationships with anybody, even a man as sexy and attractive as Casey. 

Now, I am not a Jane and Maura shipper, but to be honest - it is difficult to see their interaction or their chemistry as anything but suggestive of something beyond mere friendship. I initially did hope Casey stuck around, because, lets face it - the guy is hot :P But now I'm thinking he seems less hot when he's with Jane.

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Didn't Jane and Casey know each other from high school?  In which case I have no desire to see their first meet because they would have to hire other actors to do it.  As pretty as they are, no way could Angie Harmon and Chris Vance pass for 14.

 

The way Jane acts with Maura is so, so vastly different from the way she acts with Casey and I can't tell if this is intentional or simply a product of the actresses' chemistry with each other. Lingering looks, constant touching, suggestive smiles, possessiveness and protectiveness are a few traits which the Casey and Jane relationship should have but other than sex they don't have any of these. Instead, the writers have made Jane and Maura have constant interactions of this variety. Right off the bat, from the pilot, the average audience compares this show with Bones and Castle, its leaden with 'Will they, won't they' potential. And I think this hinders the ladies' relationships with anybody, even a man as sexy and attractive as Casey.

I think there is none of that this-equals-love stuff because the core of the show is the Jane/Maura relationship and the men that come and go in their lives are just extraneous.  I think if it were two guys, like White Collar, a spouse for one of them could be incorporated but having a man come on in a significant relationship with Jane or Maura would cause a number of the audience to maybe put that relationship first.  So the men come and go as a backdrop but no relationship is ever that important.

 

I don't see any will they/won't they potential because while Jane and Maura have a terrific friendship, if it ever moved into romantic territory it would kill what they have but more, one would kill the other. I don't know if it would be Jane killing Maura (more likely) or Maura killing Jane but they are sooo different. It's what makes their relationship fun on the show but I can't see them ever making a longterm love relationship work.

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