Dark Angel - General Discussion

[yeswedo]

Editor's Note:

Discuss Dark Angel here!

 

 

Discuss Season One here!

[CloudySky]

I just rewatched this show and wish they would bring it back! With all the recent reboots, why not this one. It's so frustrating that it ended with so many loose ends and characters that disappeared and were never seen again.

 

Season 2 was not as fun as season 1. The cult element and anomalies were too Buffy/Angel-esque and the show drifted away too much from its (manti)core storyline. But still, cool effects...especially for 15 years ago. Would be fun to pick this show back up when it's really 2020.

 

The show was pretty progressive for that time too. I had completely forgotten about Original Cindy being a lesbian and that one episode with Normal dating a transgender and not thinking anything of it.

Edited December 22, 2015 by CloudySky

[rmcrae]

Same here. Loved the show from the start and was sad to see it canceled after 2 seasons. I haven't read them, but know about a few books that were published catching up with the characters immediately after the series finale. It's more than enough material to build a reboot on.

[Avatar19]

Season 2 was definitely too out there.  It would have been better if the season was mostly Max at Manticore and going on missions, while Logan tried to piece together her rescue.

[Avatar19]

Looking back on the show years later, Season 1 and Season 2 felt like different shows altogether.

In Season 1, Max's family was the 09er escapees only, and her main goal was staying under the radar after the Pulse.  The show's focus was on events in the world that allowed for corruption to flourish across all levels of society, and around the world.

Logan was more interesting and a well-rounded character and Lydecker was a great adversary for Max to go against.  Sometimes, I admit I forget about Season 1 because Season 2 is so different.

It would have been far more interesting to see the next season explore that post-Pulse world more before bringing Manticore back into play.

[Avatar19]

Pollo Loco (S01.E18) is my favorite episode of the series, because it went into the dark side of the day to day life at Manticore.  It seemed strange that just simple military training would drive them to try to escape, but the incidents of the episode really showed that even good people contain darkness lurking under the surface.  While some people focus on Ben, it was actually showcasing that when put to the test, Max and Logan trying to do the right thing puts them into conflict with each other.  Lydecker secretly gives Logan some photos that show Max's dark side, causing a rift between her and Logan as he tried to cope with her past.  

It's not until Hello, Goodbye that the repercussions of that episode comes back up for Max to deal with, even though Alec had been in most of Season 2.  The episode focused on the fallout of star-crossed romances (Max/Logan, Alec/Asha, Joshua/Annie) and Mule, a transgenic who White captured and pretended to befriend, only set a trap for him to be murdered.  The episode felt just as heartbreaking as Pollo Loco, watching Mule thank White for helping him before he gets killed and Joshua see Annie mistake Alec for him, all of it ties back to the idea that the transgenics are not prepared for the world outside as much as the world is not prepared for them.  Alec and Max argue about the fact that they are different from Asha and Logan, and it will always come back to mess things up.  Again, it comes up as the wedge between Max and Logan for the remaining episodes of Season 2, as the search for the cure is put on indefinite hold due to the transgenic situation escalating.  Instead of wondering about Max's true nature, Logan mistakenly thinks he has lost her to Alec because of it.  One of the best things about the Max/Alec dynamic during the series is that they're so completely in each other's lives, and they both end up being what the  other needs more often than not. 

This episode doesn't depict Logan in a particularly good light.  As it tries to show how devoted Logan is to Max, it comes off less as romantic and more as pathological, when faced with the idea that they won't get a happily ever after.  Instead of giving her space, he doubles down that he needs her, and doesn't care how she feels.   Logan sees being together as the right thing, while Max thinks the greater good is in being apart, which hearkens back to Pollo Loco where even though they claim Max being transgenic isn't a problem, it's just a problem they both refuse to address, thinking that love will just magically make it okay.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Avatar19

[Smad]

On 17.2.2018 at 11:39 PM, Avatar19 said:

Instead of wondering about Max's true nature, Logan mistakenly thinks he has lost her to Alec because of it.  One of the best things about the Max/Alec dynamic during the series is that they're so completely in each other's lives, and they both end up being what the  other needs more often than not.

 

What do you mean mistakenly? I get that you are a Max/Alec shipper but lets not pretend that he didn't get the ball rolling in this whole mess. From the virus, to not getting a cure to Logan thinking Max and Alec are an item. Alec saw Logan getting out of the car outside Max's apartment, then slung his arm around her shoulder and pulled her into him. Logan saw that, stepped back and then left. Whether Alec did that as a misguided attempt to help Max out (because she said she is going to not see Logan again) or to drive a wedge doesn't matter. He's the one that set the ball in motion. Which is also why him being offended when Max makes use of it, and pretends they are together to keep Logan at bay, is laughable to the extreme. You started it, idiot.

Also Alec being what Max needs, which seems to be just someone she uses when needs some muscle and her need not to have him turn into Ben, is helped along by the show with the subtly of a sledgehammer. Logan can't walk so it's not like he can help her out there. And then of course there is the virus. It's like, if you want another romance now, at least be fair and tell a good story. Instead they pretty much make it so Logan is pushed out of all of Max's life (can't walk so still no physical help, feelings are dangerous cause virus so best to just not see each other and tempt fate) and Alec can pick up the 'slack' by slipping right in. It's just stupid. But network interference is what killed the show.

I don't ship her with either guy for the record.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Smad

[Smad]

This Season was crap. All this Manticore stuff was way too soon. It should have come later in the Series. It also was too out there. I get that the transgenics are experiments with animal DNA and such so of course the first generations are going to be wonky. But come on...there seemed to be more non-human looking ones this Season than human ones. That makes no sense whatsoever. So much less focus on the people and things from S1. Herbal disappeared without any mention what happened to him. Every episode is about a damn Maticore thing. And even the one episode that starts out like a good old S1 one ultimately is about Manticore as well. Max suddenly sleeps all the damn time and 'heat' did not once become an issue this Season. The nonsense of 'keep the couple apart to drag it out' that is in every damn show. Which got further bogged down due to the network interference. Network interference in general is what killed this Season and ultimately this show. It's James freaking Cameron FOX, let him tell his story the way he wants.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Smad

[Smad]

S1 was great and the show should have continued with this formula and done the Manticore stuff further down he line. The world building was great. The effects on a once great nation now basically being nothing but a third world country. How society copes with it. How people live in this new world. How they make ends meet. It has great characters and it's actually damn progressive. But that's what a post-apocalyptic world would be like. Logan represents the idealist who wants the world to be what it was again and who tries to get it there via Eyes Only, despite the fact that even before this the world was a crappy place. Max is the realist as she knows first hand that the world is a cruel place and was that even before the puls. However they are both driven to do the right thing, help those in need. It's kind of sad how Kendra just disappears throughout the Season.

I love this Season and rewatch it a lot. I don't rewatch S2 even though I'm always stoked after the way S1 ended. But then I remember S2 and all the enthusiasm goes out the window.

[Avatar19]

I don't recall there being a scene or mention in the audio commentary that Alec knew Logan was there or that he was trying to do Max a favor by keeping Logan away in this particular episode.   Alec did start interfering in Love Among the Runes, when he allowed the lie to stand and at the end of the episode, he called Max away from her video call with Logan.  Unfortunately, because it was the penultimate episode, it never got fleshed out what Alec's true motivations were.  Each of the writers had their own vision of what they wanted out of the Max and Alec story line, so there's no point in taking sides because the series didn't go on longer, we don't know what would have actually happened (just friends, brief dating, end game, etc).  After Love Among the Runes, I really thought that the writers were pulling a 'It Meant Something to Me.'  Shipping isn't a dealbreaker thing for me when watching a show.

 

Also, Alec didn't intentionally keep Max from the cure.  The first time, he was working for Renfro and the lab blew up.  He had no stake in whether or not Max had the cure.  The second time, Max traded the cure for Alec's life.  The whole virus plot sucked and ruined every character it touched (I'm looking at you Joshua and Original Cindy).  I'm not trying to defend Alec's entire character, it's just that he was selfishly amoral and didn't strike me as interested in stealing Max from Logan or trying to help Max by intervening on her behalf.  Stuff between them didn't change until after Hello, Goodbye.  The writers ruined Logan's character after Borrowed Time, taking him from a genuine, layered character to one hovering in the background and behaving like a bad ex.

 

Not sure if you remember the original run, but the network interference wasn't Alec (he was actually a character the writers wanted to explore, and the actor was well-liked by cast and crew alike).  The network changed the series' themes and episode format.  The interesting plots involving geopolitics, terrorism and domestic corruption were all wiped from the slate following 9/11.  It was a strange and difficult time in America, and a conservative network like FOX didn't want to stir up more controversy.  I think you can see it in some episodes, like Brainiac where the show wanted to explore the police corruption like it would have in Season 1, but it got edited in a strange way to highlight the theme of personal perception and having confidence in oneself.   The episode format of monster of the week and less long arc plot driven episodes was an effort to recreate The X-Files formula to get more viewers.

[rmcrae]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:36 AM, Smad said:

This Season was crap. All this Manticore stuff was way too soon. It should have come later in the Series. It also was too out there. I get that the transgenics are experiments with animal DNA and such so of course the first generations are going to be wonky. But come on...there seemed to be more non-human looking ones this Season than human ones. That makes no sense whatsoever. So much less focus on the people and things from S1. Herbal disappeared without any mention what happened to him. Every episode is about a damn Maticore thing. And even the one episode that starts out like a good old S1 one ultimately is about Manticore as well. Max suddenly sleeps all the damn time and 'heat' did not once become an issue this Season. The nonsense of 'keep the couple apart to drag it out' that is in every damn show. Which got further bogged down due to the network interference. Network interference in general is what killed this Season and ultimately this show. It's James freaking Cameron FOX, let him tell his story the way he wants.

I never understood why they got rid of him. And season 2 Original Cindy got the shaft (no pun intended) popping up and dropping a line or two before disappearing again.

[SarahPrtr]

There seems to be very little action scenes in season 2.  In the pilot, Max was flying through the air, jumping through windows and parkour-ing between walls.  The other S1 episodes had impressive stunts.  Then in S2, we didn't have any of it, even though there was a regular transgenic character, Alec.  The two of them could have done lots of flying through the air and other fun stunts, but they didn't.  It was interesting to see how other transgenics were made like in Gill Girl, but I actually got quite sick of the Joshua plotlines.

[enoughcats]

Has anyone asked the creator what he'd do with Dark Angel  if the had a billion dollars?  (Snidely asked because now he does.)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jessica Alba gives a tour of her home to Architectural Digest:

[tessaray]

She looks more like the older sister to the kids than their mom.  I laughed at her Pinterest mentions. The whole house is like a Pinterest board come to life. 

[Avatar19]

It's crazy seeing her in L.A.'s Finest and she looks like she has only aged 5 years from Dark Angel. Gabrielle Union looks young as well.

Edited June 21, 2019 by Avatar19

[Smad]

On 7/19/2018 at 6:03 AM, Avatar19 said:

I don't recall there being a scene or mention in the audio commentary that Alec knew Logan was there or that he was trying to do Max a favor by keeping Logan away in this particular episode. 

I know this is a late reply so who knows if you even get this one. But why do you need an audio commentary when the scene is right there? After their conversation about Ben (and Max saying she won't see Logan again), Max walks Alec outside of the apartment building. Logan gets there, gets out of the car and starts walking in the direction of the building. They cut to Alec who is looking in the direction Logan is coming from and then decides to throw his arm around Max. They cut back to Logan and he stops in his tracks when he sees that happening. If Alec hadn't been looking in Logan's direction and then made the choice to throw his arm around Max (which is not the relationship they had so it's a weird thing to do by itself), then one could say he didn't do that on purpose.

[tessaray]

I can't believe that I actually remember that scene. 

With all the reboots lately, I wouldn't mind someone taking a stab at DA. I loved this show back in the day. 

[Primal Slayer]

Of all the shows that get rebooted, I wish this would be one of them. The general story is just itching to be told again.

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of all the shows that get rebooted, I wish this would be one of them. The general story is just itching to be told again.

Other than pushing out the time frame and some minor updates to the technobabble, it wouldn't take much.

My fantasy production team would be the folks behind Person of Interest. (Kilter, Bad Robot) I can't see James Cameron for some reason.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Other than pushing out the time frame and some minor updates to the technobabble, it wouldn't take much.

My fantasy production team would be the folks behind Person of Interest. (Kilter, Bad Robot)

Especially since the show took place 19 years in the future (2019) and they could set it now in 2040 (shudder). With how much more technology is taking over, it definitely would be perfect for the current generation. Losing access to technology would be an absolute nightmare compared to when we just had dial up lol. 

Lindsay Morgan could've made a good "modern day" Max.  

[tessaray]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Lindsay Morgan could've made a good "modern day" Max. 

Absolutely.  

[Primal Slayer]

All this Dark Angel talk makes me want to replay the PS2 game. Sure it wasnt the best but...still fun to a degree.

[tessaray]

Sierra did a DA game? Now I'm wondering if the old Ps2 at the back of the closet works. 🙂

[Primal Slayer]

6 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Sierra did a DA game? Now I'm wondering if the old Ps2 at the back of the closet works. 🙂

It was a bit of a mess and I never made it to the end as a child. You could "charge up" and go all super speed/strength on the enemies but it tapped out very fast.

That's one thing I miss about the early 00s. EVERYTHING got a game.

Buffy, Xena, DA...all my faves. And now WW is finally getting one.

[tessaray]

I rarely have time to play games - it's easier just to watch them on YouTube.  Off to check it out now.