TV Diva Queen November 2, 2015 Share November 2, 2015 Can the President really give Betsy Ross' ring to someone? I don't think it's his to give. 2 Link to comment
laddibugg November 2, 2015 Share November 2, 2015 He was? I don't know if it's the effects of aging or just the petulant boredom the character has riding his face all the time, even or especially when he's breaching Olivia's boundaries for sex on demand, but there's something a little lizardlike about his face for me at this point. He just reads human iguana sunning himself crankily on a rock waiting for someone to catch a bug and feed it to him. I see how some could find him attractive but I will never not see him as that snake like Carl in Ghost. 2 Link to comment
arty November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 As outlandish as this show is, until this episode, I never felt that Olivia/Fitz was contrived in any way or at least in any way that took me out of the show. But Olivia's hesitation at getting married to Fitz rang completely false and unearned to me. As much as Mellie and Fitz have complained about the White House being a very high-end jail, it's never seemed like Olivia was bothered by the idea of a public life with Fitz. After all, she's wanted to stand in the sun with him for years. So, the whole thing "OMG I'm losing my identity and my power base if I marry the POTUS" didn't sit well with me at all. I'm not a shipper on this show, but I realize that a happy ending is inevitable for these two. Let's get there, shall we. On the other hand, Mellie and Fitz's fight and current mutual enmity struck me as very real. As tedious as their push-pull and repetitive arguments are getting, it seems like a natural ending to a relationship that has spanned decades, spawned children, made history, been beautiful, been ugly. I don't know how this relationship will be once the dust settles & the blood dries, but I would like to see them forge a delicate peace. This relationship intrigues me; Fitz/Mellie are so deliciously messed up & I find their dynamic compelling. I can't believe Papa Pope is on the loose; what a colossally stupid mistake on Mellie's part. On a show level, this is like the George/Izzy relationship or the Izzy/Dead Denny relationship on Greys: Shonda just digging in her heels as viewers complain vociferously about a storyline. Link to comment
PrincessTT November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 As outlandish as this show is, until this episode, I never felt that Olivia/Fitz was contrived in any way or at least in any way that took me out of the show. But Olivia's hesitation at getting married to Fitz rang completely false and unearned to me. As much as Mellie and Fitz have complained about the White House being a very high-end jail, it's never seemed like Olivia was bothered by the idea of a public life with Fitz. After all, she's wanted to stand in the sun with him for years. So, the whole thing "OMG I'm losing my identity and my power base if I marry the POTUS" didn't sit well with me at all. I'm not a shipper on this show, but I realize that a happy ending is inevitable for these two. Let's get there, shall we. I actually thought it was quite expected that Liv wouldn't want to marry Fitz... When I look back at all the ways that Liv has so far managed to avoid being with Fitz properly, I mean she came up with the 'get pregnant with Teddy' plan, it rings true for me that she would hesitate at marriage. 1 Link to comment
arty November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 But hasn't all of their previous delaying rested on the fear that going public and/or divorcing Mellie would adversely affect Fitz's presidency and legacy. I recall a lot of blathering on about Fitz's potential for greatness, etc. It wasn't until the beginning of the season and the conversation with Not Princess Diana that the show introduced the idea of Liv possibly losing her identity if she marries Fitz. That's how I recall it anyway. Link to comment
PrincessTT November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 (edited) I think that the idea of Liv losing her identity with Fitz has been around since we first met her dad... It always seemed to me though that Liv loves the excitement of being with Fitz the way they are, not being in a settled marriage with him. I've felt that she often used his presidency and his legacy as an excuse to not have to be in a proper relationship with Fitz, because she can't be dumb enough to really believe that he's a good president. Edited November 4, 2015 by PrincessTT 1 Link to comment
arty November 4, 2015 Share November 4, 2015 I've felt that she often used his presidency and his legacy as an excuse to not have to be in a proper relationship with Fitz, because she can't be dumb enough to really believe that he's a good president. LOL. Unfortunately, it's never been insinuated & certainly never been stated in the show that Fitz is not good at his job. IMO we the viewers have to suspend major disbelief about what Fitz is capable of and what his administration has achieved. This might be belong in the Olivia thread, but I'll just say that I don't think she would stick around for so long if Fitz were the dud that I, for example, think he is. I'm sure she believes she bet on (and helped rig an election for) the right horse. Link to comment
Nanrad November 9, 2015 Share November 9, 2015 Honestly, I interpreted Mellie's read of Fitz and her interpretation of her sacrifices as ll of this shit she's done for him only to have the ending that she did. She's already admitting to overestimating the position and influence of first lady, but now Fitz's actions and overall treatment of her has torpedoed her true aspirations. He tried to place all that shit on her as if she takes takes takes, but between the two of them, she is the only one to truly sacrifice. He truly is ill quipped for the job and should've resigned when he first found out how he got "voted" in. 2 Link to comment
nara January 12, 2017 Share January 12, 2017 On 10/30/2015 at 3:48 PM, Spartan Girl said: Maybe it's all part of a bigger plan for Mellie to use Rowan to kill Fitz and then turn around and kill him and Tom to avenge Jerry. Three birds with one stone. That would be awesome...which is why it probably will never happen. I have a very hard time buying Mellie playing along with the man who killed her child--for any reason. She's ruthless and ambitious, but her grief was genuine and overpowering. She has to at least have some idea of killing him in the future. On 11/2/2015 at 8:54 AM, Whitley Trillbert said: Mellie reading Fitz was the life I needed. Give Bellamy her Emmy already. She LAID IT ALL OUT for that ass. I WASTED MY LIFE ON YOU!!! I think she's done a great job acting throughout this series, though some seem to disagree. I also think she's had some of the best material for showing a range of emotions. On 11/2/2015 at 2:15 PM, TV Diva Queen said: Can the President really give Betsy Ross' ring to someone? I don't think it's his to give. That's exactly what I was thinking! Perhaps it will be like Al Capone, and stealing the ring will be the President's downfall. ;) On 11/4/2015 at 4:45 AM, PrincessTT said: I actually thought it was quite expected that Liv wouldn't want to marry Fitz... When I look back at all the ways that Liv has so far managed to avoid being with Fitz properly, I mean she came up with the 'get pregnant with Teddy' plan, it rings true for me that she would hesitate at marriage. I don't think Liv is the marrying type, though I believe she's genuinely in love with Fitz. The Vermont fantasy is not really her--though I do think that Fitz would be very happy living out of the spotlight. She will be working and plotting until the day she dies. Link to comment
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