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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
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Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

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BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Hmm, could be. And if this is the flashback episode, could they be tying the magical artifacts Reiter is looking for with the Vixen stuff in present time?

Could be, although I'm not sure how much attention they could give Vixen in a flashback only episode.  Unless a very young Vixen was on the island? 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I don't think it's necessary for Vixen to be in the flashbacks [they're already WAY too coincidental for my liking], but the magical artifacts can easily show up in present time, or maybe the island has connection to her ancestors, especially since Constantine basically said Lian Yu is a ~super special place~.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I don't think it's necessary for Vixen to be in the flashbacks [they're already WAY too coincidental for my liking], but the magical artifacts can easily show up in present time, or maybe the island has connection to her ancestors, especially since Constantine basically said Lian Yu is a ~super special place~.

I don't think it's necessary but, I don't know how much screen time she would get in a mostly Flashback episode if she isn't on the Island.  Of course, there's the potential that Vixen's appearance on Arrow isn't that big of a deal and doesn't require a lot of screen time

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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They can always make the FB episode something like a 50-50 split of screen time with the present scenes, instead of the usual 75-25. HOPEFULLY, even.

Very true, they could make the mostly flashback episode only take up 55-45 percent of screentime.  I don't know that they will but they could.  Sadly, i get the feeling that the EPs think the flashbacks are awesome and an important part of their mythos...whereas I see them as utterly pointless (except for S1 and early part of S2).

Edited by Morrigan2575
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

If he is kidnapped, it'll be interesting to see how the remainder of the storyline is handled. I can't imagine that the conclusion of the storyline is that it's not safe for Oliver to have kids, but I also can't believe that two parents would be stupid enough to put their kid in a position where he's constantly in danger, so...stupid story remains stupid. I'll deal with whatever in the hope that little William soon gets gone. 

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Chaser

Chaser

Flashbacks

Poppy/Oliver

BMD/Oliver

Kid/Oliver

Olicity Angst

Unless the next few episodes go in a different direction than I'm assuming they will, Vixen is not enough to make me watch this episode.

This is also the episode were they take a 'hard six'. Be Afraid.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

Well if it happens he would have gotten the only two storylines a kid can have on a show like this,getting kidnapped and causing drama for a couple.Lets hope he's gone after this.I don't see how Oliver can remain in his life if the kid is put in danger because of him and I'm hoping he decides to stay out of his life.At this point I don't care if its the right thing for Oliver to do or not,its the right thing for this show imo.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

The spawn being in too much danger to be in Oliver's life doesn't mean Felicity and Oliver can never have kids. Presumably their kid would live with them, meaning they would be there to keep him safe. The spawn lives with a rando (utterly horrible) woman with no security. Even if Oliver and Felicity paid for a security detail for them, it's not the same as actually living with a superhero.

 

It's going to be ever so much fun if he is the one kidnapped. So Felicity will get to help save the kid Oliver couldn't be bothered to tell her about, a week after dumping him for lying to her about the kid. I fully think it's in character for her to help no matter what, it's just ever so much more bullshit dropped in her lap. This is, even more than S3, turning out to be the shitting-on-Felicity season. The only reason I am not sure it's Donna in the grave is that the grave was clearly not Jewish, but I'm not sure they won't ignore that.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

I think its different if Felicity and Oliver have a kid since they're both fully aware of the danger of their lives.Oliver would probably always be lying to BM about being the Arrow and she wouldn't fully know what they're getting into by letting Oliver in their lives.And if she knew about him being the Arrow I don't see her letting him be William's father.Since she reacted so unresonably to him telling his loved ones about the kid,I don't see how she would be fine with the risk of crazy villains finding out and targeting him.Imo it doesn't mean that Oliver is giving up the idea of kids if he isn't in this kids life and I hope the show doesn't try to sell it like that.

Edited by tangerine95
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

I'm not even in the mood for more of the BS that is this BMD story line. Hopefully they reeled Marc in from going bat shit crazy with overkill in plots to create more unnecessary drama. I was looking forward to the return/first half of Arrow. This back half I'm not looking forward to too much. The only exception I'm feeling about the back half is seeing Emily act her ass off, and the praise she'll receive for doing really well with the crap Marc gives her. I basically think UGH sums up my feelings right now!

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

My point is that it seems like to me, Oliver knowing that a child was being targeted and was in danger specifically because he was his child wouldn't sit well with him no matter who the mother is. I just can't imagine this storyline ending with William being shipped off for his own safety and Oliver being totally open to the idea of having kids afterward. Maybe that's a storyline for another time, I just thought for sure this one would end with him realizing that he can have it all. It wouldn't really sit right with me if he had that realization after he had to make a kid disappear to keep him safe, no matter how much I want that kid gone. 

 

But, maybe that's not where they're going with this. 

Edited by apinknightmare
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I don't want kids on the show, period. I'm okay with baby Sara bc she's the young child of a supporting character, whose wife does all the childcare. If Felicity turned out to be pregnant in 4.10 and had a healthy Olicity baby in eight or so months, I'd hate that, too. So if this all turns into a big discussion that ends in a realization that either or both don't want kids, I pretty much don't care. I'd be fine with an announced O/F pregnancy in the very final episode, but don't need it. I would have HATED for Felicity to be infertile bc of the shooting, bc that's waaaaaay too misogynistic for me. But if they decide together not to have kids, bc of safety concerns or balancing concerns or bc they don't want baby toys in their sweet pad, I...do not care. Ship the spawn to ARGUS WitSec and live happily child-free if you so desire. There is simply no place for a kid as a recurring character on this show. That can stay in fic. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't really care either, I just didn't think that was where this storyline was going at all. So even though I don't care about the kid (or O/F having kids) at all, I am kind of interested in what the endgame of all this is. Unless the endgame is the kid sticking around in any fashion, in which case I take all of this back. 

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

This:

 

https://twitter.com/mariainbadmood/status/687775703090237441

 

 

CYt4WWTWwAIejaa.jpg

 

I think part of this may happen but I'm sure she'll know he didn't have a whole "new life", but he did have a part of his life that he kept from her. She may also feel this is also something that she possibly can't give him (family to include a child). If the show goes any where near this its gonna hurt like a mother f*cker because you know Emily will display all the pain, hurt, betrayal, distrust, anger, rage, so many damn emotions that she'll hit everyone watching in the damn feels!

Edited by Ann Mack
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I'm curious to see how far they can push this before the audience really turns on Oliver. The writers seem to think he's more or less in the right, but most of the audience (based on social media and professional reviewers) seemed to think the idea that he HAD to lie is total horseshit (which, of course, it is). So already the audience thinks he's dumb and/or his excuse is crap. Then throw in that he could fix this with a quick trip to the courthouse. I get why that's not come up yet, but the audience is certainly thinking about it. Now throw in Felicity being shot, nearly dying, being paralyzed, all because of her loyalty to Oliver. Then throw in her evil father. Then Felicity finds out, likely in a completely humiliating public fashion. While sitting in a wheelchair, paralyzed, because of her loyalty to Oliver. Then he actually tries to excuse and defend his actions, with this bullshit that he had to lie to his future spouse to keep his word to a lying hagbag he banged 10 years ago. She breaks up with him, and the very next episode she helps save his son, who he couldn't be bothered to tell her about, which possibly ends with her wistfully staring at him with his other family/other life. From her wheelchair, that she's in because of her loyalty to him, which he apparently can't be bothered to return.

 

People have a lot of love for Oliver...hey, even I have residual affection for him from back in the day. But he's not untouchable, and if they push this too far, and he is not suitably apologetic but instead really tries to justify his actions, while Felicity goes through hell, alone, in a wheelchair, it could happen.  

Edited by AyChihuahua
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I've tried to tell myself to remain calm and just see what happens with the BM storyline. I might be overreacting but...I feel like the route they took in 408 validates my ill feelings. I just want it over and gone. Nothing good can come from it, certainly for Felicity but also for my thinking brain.

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way2interested

way2interested

 

Remind me again.

 

Story by means he came up with the idea/outline and Teleplay by means they wrote the majority of the script?

 

Yep, that's exactly what it means. Kind of hints that he came up with what happens in this episode a while back, while Keto and Brian are writing/wrote it now. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I've tried to tell myself to remain calm and just see what happens with the BM storyline. I might be overreacting but...I feel like the route they took in 408 validates my ill feelings. I just want it over and gone. Nothing good can come from it, certainly for Felicity but also for my thinking brain.

Personally I'm totally convinced it's going to be terrible. The past often predicts the future, and they've done a lot of awful things on this show, and specifically awful things with this storyline. I mean, I don't think Oliver's going to cheat on Felicity with BM or anything, but I think they're going to have a family moment that Felicity watches from the sidelines, excluded. While sitting, paralyzed, in a wheelchair, and after which she'll go wherever she's living, alone. 

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I'm hoping that the reaction to the BMD has caused them to reconsider some of their plans. Probably not the big plot points but at least their approaches. Maybe even their timeline (like shorter it).

Also, that log cabin is a crime scene. I'm going to assume that's where someone was taken from. If BM and kid are outed in 4x14, Oliver may put them in hiding. Like in a log cabin in the middle of nowhere.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I'm hoping that the reaction to the BMD has caused them to reconsider some of their plans. Probably not the big plot points but at least their approaches. Maybe even their timeline (like shorter it).

Also, that log cabin is a crime scene. I'm going to assume that's where someone was taken from.

If that's a log cabin, I'm Angelina Jolie.

 

Yeah, it's kind of spoilery, with the crime scene tape. The African mask in the back seems like something DD would have more than BM, so maybe DD's kid is taken? Then he takes Oliver's to make Oliver help? The crime scene tape would work if his wife is not known to be DD's wife...she could just report the kidnapping without mentioning DD at all.

 

I'm hoping that the reaction to the BMD has caused them to reconsider some of their plans. Probably not the big plot points but at least their approaches. Maybe even their timeline (like shorter it).

I don't know. Guggie seems like the kind of guy to double down on something he feels was insufficiently appreciated. He probably just thinks we don't get how awesome it all is yet. So the network/his bosses would really have to tell him to end it, and I don't know that the backlash was bad enough for that. 4.09's ratings were great. If ratings start dropping in the upcoming misery episodes, maybe, but by then it'd mostly be too late.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Considering how stubborn MG was about Ray Palmer last season I wouldn't be surprised if they don't change a THING about their storyline.

Sometimes I try to convince myself they only had BM act the way she did so that they could kickstart the story. But then I think "MG was surprised at the negative reaction". Nope, he actually liked it.

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Chaser

Chaser

I'm not talking the big plot points, I'm just talking about how its written. For example, a lot of people didn't care for Felicity's response. It was trigger happy and over the top. You can convey the same emotions without having her jump down his throat. Maybe they soften the approach. As much as I want them to drop the storyline, I know they won't. I just hope they felt the backlash coming from everywhere, not just shippers. 

 

MG's promises to the actress mean nothing unless they are written done in a contract.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

They need to soften Oliver's lying, not Felicity's response. He'll have been lying to her for months by then. It's not the wronged party's job to be nice to the one who's done the wrong. It's the wronging party's job to stop screwing up. Plenty of the backlash was about how moronic the whole "it's suuuuuuuch an impossible choice, woe is me" BS from Oliver. 

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I think Felicity's reaction needed to be that over the top though. If she was calmer, told him she needed some air and walked away Barry wouldn't have thought they broke up. The show needed Oliver to act like an idiot and Felicity to go from 0-1000 because the plot needed it. Therefore the plot will need more of such stupidity and overreaction (although then it'll be FULLY justified) for the story to continue. And this is what makes me cringe.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

They could tweak Oliver's response to her finding out. But I think, from what's aired and especially what Guggie's said, that they think he really was in an impossible situation and did his best. If he tries to argue that to her to excuse and justify his behavior, I'll be pretty sickened. Quite a few reviewers called the show on that, so MAYBE they'll tweak it into a sincere apology instead. I'm not optimistic, however. I don't think Guggie has any interest in criticism no matter how constructive.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

In case anyone's wondering, one of my spoilerphobic friends just saw the new promo, and msged me that he's sure it's not Felicity in the grave, but that someone will die in 410 instead of her bc someone has to be in the grave, so there's your average audience member right there.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

They are seriously overdoing it with the grave in the promos.They are really creating an expectation that someone has to end up in the grave in 4.10 because they keep showing it but it likely won't even be in the episode even as a flashforward.

Edited by tangerine95
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

So from that new trailer Felicity gets no screen time unless its at the very end because of surgery okay understandable. They are bringing back Anarky in this episode why.....? Diggle will beat the crap out of his brother.....why? And Oliver goes all beat em up while Felicity is in surgery to distract himself from what may come and for them in the promo "justice" I thought it was for "revenge" you don't come after the people I love....but whatever. Once again my enthusiasm for the back half of season 4 has dampened quite a bit. I'm here for Felicity and hopefully more of Diggle. I just hope Marc really doesn't screw up the rest of this season the front half was so damn good until episode 8 with a recovery mostly for episode 9. Again UGH is summing up my feelings for the back half.

Edited by Ann Mack
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Why is Darhk trading punches with Oliver when he can suck the life out of people? Come on now.

We saw GA/DD trade punches in 401 and DD/Speedy in 406 before DD went in for the life sucking move.  I think he needs to get a clear opening at the chest as well as his opponent in a position where they can't pull away

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Chaser

Chaser

It sounds like there may be some Bane-issues with that Anarchy mask.

 

It does seem a bit weird to have Anarchy in an episode where they should be going at DD full throttle. Maybe Anarchy comes into the picture and Oliver goes after him to release the rage. He goes back to the hospital after Felicity is out of surgery, finds out her condition and then goes after DD? 

 

I wonder if Diggle is unleashing on Andy in response to the attack on Felicity. I hope so. I need Diggle to talk about how Felicity is his family too.

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

(edited)

We saw GA/DD trade punches in 401 and DD/Speedy in 406 before DD went in for the life sucking move.  I think he needs to get a clear opening at the chest as well as his opponent in a position where they can't pull away

I think they are not creative enough to come up with other ways for Darhk to do damage right now in their action scenes. He is suppose to be magical they have shown him lift people up into the air and choke them without touching them at all. The whole trading punches fight scenes got boring a long time ago for me. They really need to come up with something else. Better yet why not let Thea tell them or at least Oliver about the effect she has on Damien, let Oliver distract him while fighting and have Thea come up behind him and drain his life force fully or partially to render him weak for awhile. Oh yeah doing this might actually get rid of their "big bad" and they still have 13 episodes to go shaking my head. Maybe introducing their "big bad" early was a mistake if they couldn't come up with different ways to keep making him forcefully menacing IMO?

Edited by Ann Mack
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bijoux

bijoux

We saw GA/DD trade punches in 401 and DD/Speedy in 406 before DD went in for the life sucking move.  I think he needs to get a clear opening at the chest as well as his opponent in a position where they can't pull away

 

True. I'm just ready for things to move along. Here we are, tenth verse same as the first. Maybe it is better to follow the previous seasons' formula of waiting to introduce the big bad. Darhk is becoming too stagnant.

 

It does seem a bit weird to have Anarchy in an episode where they should be going at DD full throttle. Maybe Anarchy comes into the picture and Oliver goes after him to release the rage. He goes back to the hospital after Felicity is out of surgery, finds out her condition and then goes after DD? 

 

I wonder if Diggle is unleashing on Andy in response to the attack on Felicity. I hope so. I need Diggle to talk about how Felicity is his family too.

The interior of the confrontation with Narky seems to match the exterior where they find Darhk. I think it's all in the same location.

I assume Dig goes after Andy for the same reason Oliver goes after the Ghosts - to get a lead on Darhk and to find a way to channel the rage and impotence of the sitaution.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Not for nothing but 10-17 are usually pure filler anyway.  

 

I'm skipping 10-11, nothing interesting there (for me).  I'll watch 412 for Roy and 413 for Calculator/Felicity's father (been waiting forever for that shit).  Beyond that I'll probably be out until 18 or 19.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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