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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

If this was a normal show, at least a conversation about wanting kids would have to happen in 408, but this is the writing team that make sure Thea and Felicity don't talk to each other because ????, so who knows.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

The thing is, no matter how great O/F are about the whole subject, at the end of the day we'll have a kid on the show.

 

Not necessarily? They all seemed pretty settled in CC. I don't think they'd move to Star City, aka, a city that people are fleeing, just because Oliver's there. Yeah he's a part of the universe, but he probably won't be a part of the show. 

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

I think Arrow has done Angst somewhat well. I mean non Lance family and well Last season was bad bad melodrama angst but that was because they were forcing it. This child might be an annoyance but showing consequences to Oliver's past has always been a part of this show since the beginning. And having unknown children pop up is comic canon for Oliver's journey even if the child isn't going to be Connor or Robert. I do hope the child isn't Oliver's for all your sake but even if he is I don't think it has to be as weigh-downy as you all fear. Writers don't like having children interfere with shows either. They will find a way for the Boy to be off camera.  

Edited by tarotx
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Writers don't like having children interfere with shows either. They will find a way for the Boy to be off camera.  

 

If they keep the kid off the show and relegate him to random asides about visits over the weekend, that's fine. I just really, really don't want a kid on this show. I especially don't want drama over a kid on this show. I really hate this whole storyline, and have hated it ever since the first shoe dropped two years ago. And not even having it be a canon kid? What exactly is the fucking point. It's just drama for drama's sake. No thanks.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

LOVE TRIANGLE.

 

Suuuuuuure. Let's just throw Laurel in there as well and make it a love square. 

 

HOW ABOUT NO. 

 

Seriously though, I don't see that happening. 

Edited by Angel12d
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

This. I can't see how we go from baby mama angst and Olicity being all at odds or whatever happens, to Oliver wanting to propose in 409. They must have an emotional talk and sort things out as much as they can. Je refuse! 

In between bouts of fighting the 4000-year-old dude who's chasing down the two also really old flying people who keep reincarnating?  And I think they have to build a weapon?

 

If they do a believable job with a serious discussion in this packed episode, I'll be totally shocked.  

 

I think it's fine for Felicity to be upset.  It's a big deal, and her first reaction doesn't have to be positive.  People aren't locked into their immediate reaction to big news.  I think it'd take more than a few days just to get over the shock, though, and so for me a proposal in a week is probably going to ring a bit false.

 

Was there anything in this episode about the secret Oliver was asked to keep?  

 

HOW ABOUT NO.

There have been a couple Arrow/Olicity fanfics that have genuinely pissed me off.  Any in which Oliver (sometimes even Felicity) are all "Cool beans, let's join the LOA for reals and have fun being evil!"  One in which Quentin murdered Felicity. (It made ZERO sense...Quentin finds out Felicity's DD's daughter, so Quentin kills her.  Why?  What advantage did he gain from killing her, v. kidnapping her or threatening her or whatever?  It was totally bizarre and absolutely just angst for angst's sake.  Oh, and while Quentin's killing her Oliver's calling her because she's late to their date, at which he was going to propose.  THE DRAAAAAAAMA.)  

 

Anyway, to circle back around to my point, there was a terrible fic in which Felicity dumped Oliver because she felt like he had to try to be with his Baby Mama.  Like, what?  To be the kid's dad he has to date this woman he barely knew back when they were conceiving the kid?  That is just strange reasoning to me and it made Felicity look crazy.  But yeah, I have exactly zero faith in these writers, and I can see them being desperate for a love triangle.  It makes no sense at all in-show, but when has that stopped them?  Maybe Felicity pushes Oliver away after she's paralyzed, he grows closer to his kid and his kid's mother, boom, triangle.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Suuuuuuure. Let's just throw Laurel in there as well and make it a love square. 

 

HOW ABOUT NO. 

 

Seriously though, I don't see that happening. 

 

I'm not worried about a love triangle, but that AK quote about it becoming a "real part of the show" is so disappointing to me. 

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Angel12d

Angel12d

I'm not worried about a love triangle, but that AK quote about it becoming a "real part of the show" is so disappointing to me. 

 

Same. My worry wasn't anything to do with a possible love triangle. But more baby mama on the show means more kid on the show and I DON'T WANT IT. Seriously, this is just horrible. I hate it.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Same. My worry wasn't anything to do with a possible love triangle. But more baby mama on the show means more kid on the show and I DON'T WANT IT. Seriously, this is just horrible. I hate it.

 

I didn't realize how much I was clinging to the idea that it really was going to be a one-and-done to get some character movement on some issues. Hopefully he means that a "real part of the show" is one and 1/100th of a crossover ep. Because seriously. Words cannot express how much I do not want drama over this kid.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I didn't realize how much I was clinging to the idea that it really was going to be a one-and-done to get some character movement on some issues. Hopefully he means that a "real part of the show" is one and 1/100th of a crossover ep. Because seriously. Words cannot express how much I do not want drama over this kid.

Except we have that spoiler from like a page back that it's not done, and it's continuing throughout the season.  At that point, it's continuing throughout the series, bc I don't believe they'll kill his kid, and that means there's some kind of ongoing relationship.  So yeah, there's going to be a kid making recurring appearances on Arrow.  (At least guest appearances.)

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catrox14

catrox14

I haven't seen the Flash episode yet and I'm already so surfin' annoyed. Why is there even a possibility of a love triangle in the present. That's soooo stupid!!!!

 

Oliver can be with Felicity and be a dad to the child from another mother.  WTF...Why....I don't....And sure this might ping Felicity's abandonment issues but ....I'm ....

 

/just sits down and weeps and longs for the Arrow of 1.5 through 2.23. 

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Chaser

Chaser

That shot of Felicity has people in the background. I don't think he would tell her about the kid in public. I'm betting that's not a reaction to the kid. I bet that's a reaction to her knowing something is up but him not saying what it is. It's at night, so I'm thinking he is getting back from the house and I'm thinking he didn't tell Felicity were he was going.

 

I really don't want this.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Except we have that spoiler from like a page back that it's not done, and it's continuing throughout the season.  At that point, it's continuing throughout the series, bc I don't believe they'll kill his kid, and that means there's some kind of ongoing relationship.  So yeah, there's going to be a kid making recurring appearances on Arrow.  (At least guest appearances.)

 

Oh, I've accepted that it's not a one and done. I was just hoping that the actress's "real part" of the show would just be during the crossover. But her continued presence would indicate a whole arc, when I was actually thinking/hoping that the continued storyline would be fallout from whatever happens with the kid, not the actual kid reappearing.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Angel12d

Angel12d

I haven't seen the Flash episode yet and I'm already so surfin' annoyed. Why is there even a possibility of a love triangle in the present. That's soooo stupid!!!!

 

 

There isn't. There was no possibility of a love triangle. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Especially after an episode where Oliver said that being wiht Felicity has given him peace? Lol no. Ain't happenin'

 

Yeah, a love triangle is not even remotely a problem for me. I'm just not at all interested in watching this storyline and all the drama it promises to bring with it. I'll hold off more judgment until tomorrow, but I don't feel good about it.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Yeah, a love triangle is not even remotely a problem for me. I'm just not at all interested in watching this storyline and all the drama it promises to bring with it. I'll hold off more judgment until tomorrow, but I don't feel good about it.

 

You know, at least you have low expectations :p

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

This is the CW.  There is ALWAYS the possibility of a love triangle.

 

I was being sarcastic about it, though.  I don't think they're going there.  But to say it's not possible is to forget this is the CW.

 

Way to make people chill, dude!!

Edited by Angel12d
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Way to make people chill, dude.

I don't think it's going to happen, but saying it's impossible is going too far.  And Arrow has had a love triangle every season (well, triangle or whatever the heck that stuff was with Oliver/Sara/Laurel/Felicity in S2).  So if SA has great chemistry with the Baby Mama actress, and she's available for a bigger role, I think it's possible.  (Not likely, but possible.)

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

These people would be stupid enough to have Oliver literally just talk about how happy he is and has everything he wants, actually propose to Felicity, and then bring in someone else for stupid, contrived romantic angst. But I'm feeling 99% percent sure at the moment it's not gonna happen.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

I hope this is misleading because I honestly can't think of any good reason for Felicity to get upset about this except FOR DRAMA. This happened long before they met, and Oliver wasn't hiding it from her - he just found out himself. I really don't know why they would go that way with it.:(

 

I have a feeling this reaction will be brief and won't seem like a big deal, ultimately. On the other hand, they had a lot of time together presumably just talking about their lives. Maybe she's upset that she didn't know about the miscarriage. Or maybe she's upset because he DOES keep it from her for a minute (whatever this secret is that he's not supposed to tell anyone?). Regardless, I really can't imagine why they're talking about this with other people around AT ALL.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

These people would be stupid enough to have Oliver literally just talk about how happy he is and has everything he wants, actually propose to Felicity, and then bring in someone else for stupid, contrived romantic angst. But I'm feeling 99% percent sure at the moment it's not gonna happen.

Yeah, I'm 98-99% sure it won't happen, either.  But it's possible, if they have chemistry.  I would bet they would have done some kind of Laurel/Oliver/Felicity triangle at some point of not for the Anti-Chem of Doom.  

 

I also think some of the stuff Oliver said about being at peace and so happy, etc., was just so that it's even more heartbreaking when they're at serious odds next episode.  I think it'll be fine at least in the short-term, but depending on what they do with Felicity, a kid and a baby mama in Oliver's life opens up lots of possibilities, and none of them, IMO, are good.

I want to talk about the main plot of the next episode……but I don't care.

Tomorrow's episode A-story is just more setup for LoT.  Reincarnated flying people, for goodness' sake.  Pure silliness.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Regardless, I really can't imagine why they're talking about this with other people around AT ALL.

 

Yeah, that makes me think that convo isn't about the kid. Unless they were fighting in the house and one of them stormed out and everyone followed. I'm hoping that it's the opposite of what we'd think, that Oliver's thinking he shouldn't be around the kid because of danger, and Felicity's upset because she grew up without a dad. 

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kismet

kismet

Yeah, I'd like to talk about the Arrow parts of the episode. The Flash parts with the metahumans and the LoT nonsense about ancient Egyptian lives was too farfetched for me to care about. I will say there is a serious difference in the acting skills between Flash actors and Arrow actors.

The problem with the Flash actors is that the better actors' characters are relegated to subpar plots with little importance to the Flash story. And then when they do get plots they are saddled with less skilled actors.

 

Arrow on the other hand I think has a far balanced acting pool and the chemistry they have as a group makes their scenes & their acting better as a whole. The only weak link they have is KC. And even in micro-increments & with PB, they are sometimes able to cover up her deficits.

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Chaser

Chaser

Yeah, that makes me think that convo isn't about the kid. Unless they were fighting in the house and one of them stormed out and everyone followed. I'm hoping that it's the opposite of what we'd think, that Oliver's thinking he shouldn't be around the kid because of danger, and Felicity's upset because she grew up without a dad. 

That would be my preferred reaction from both Oliver and Felicity. I think it would be the most in character.

 

If I had to guess about the scene in the preview. I think he is coming back from visiting the mother and when Felicity asks where he went he doesn't tell her. She seemed frustrated/sad. Maybe he had been distance because he was trying to work things out. IDK 

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kismet

kismet

The thing is, no matter how great O/F are about the whole subject, at the end of the day we'll have a kid on the show.  So it's angst with a side of unnecessary boring stupid bullshit, and even when the angst goes away the boring bullshit side WILL BE AROUND FOREVER.  It's basically creamed corn served with every meal for the rest of your life, and you have to eat it.  

Not worried - Child Acting Laws will protect the show from being saddled with a school age child. They are expensive and costly to have around with all the additional costs and regulations. There is no way the show wants to saddle itself with those additional cost burdens 4 seasons in, when it really offers nothing to the story besides more complications.

 

The kid will be in the universe, but it won't be part of the day to day on Arrow. It probably will have little to no consequences on any storyline moving forward until they need someone to take over when SA leaves. If the kid was closer to teenage years I would be concerned because perhaps they could pull in a young looking adult actor to play him. But the fact that they are keeping the kid under 10, for me provides more comfort that they just won't add a child actor on permanently. It's just too costly and frankly cumbersome to writing the plots they like to write. 

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kismet

kismet

Suuuuuuure. Let's just throw Laurel in there as well and make it a love square. 

 

HOW ABOUT NO. 

 

Seriously though, I don't see that happening. 

Maybe LL will hit it off with BabyMama? They seem to have the same taste in men. LL had the same taste in men & women as SL. So perhaps BabyMama will show some interest in LL, or vice versa. We have been trying to get LL a love interest. And it does provide another reason for LL to move to SC in the finale, if she doesn't die in the finale.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

I wonder if baby mama asks him not to tell anyone.  He's already mentioned it to Barry after seeing the kid (maybe in shock).  Maybe she overhears Barry & Oliver talking and confronts him.  I don't see Felicity being overly concerned in the moment about who else might hear.  This way everyone else finds out too.  Some of the words to describe Olicity were poignant, mature, changed, heartbreaking.  I guess the child/baby mama is the "seismic shift"?  Knowing these EPs, I wouldn't be too surprised if it looks like Oliver & Felicity are separating at the end of 4.08 only to have them work it out beginning of 4.09 in order to disguise the proposal in 4.09 before the accident/abduction in 4.09. 

 

I am all for @apinknightmare's scenario of him wanting to keep his distance and her upset because of her father abandoning her.

 

I guess it's too much to expect Baby Mama to be married.  IF Felicity is in a wheelchair for awhile she might push Oliver away.  Of course that would mean he and Baby Mama would grow closer.  I would prefer a Baby Mama doesn't want Oliver to be around William so more of a "fighting for access to your son" story.  It would give scenes to Anna Hopkins that don't have to be romantic.  At this point a triangle might be the final straw for me.  Who's in the grave might not matter.

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catrox14

catrox14

Guys, I can't help it.  I'm sorry. Please don't kick me out of the forum.

 

I kind of....ship.....Oliver and Barry. They argue like a married couple. It's the cutest damn thing.  "BARRY!!! ....Can I speak to you over here please..." LOL I legit laughed at that.

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Sunshine

Sunshine

Guys, I can't help it.  I'm sorry. Please don't kick me out of the forum.

 

I kind of....ship.....Oliver and Barry. They argue like a married couple. It's the cutest damn thing.  "BARRY!!! ....Can I speak to you over here please..." LOL I legit laughed at that.

I love Oliver & Barry scenes! Ship whomever you like!

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Sorry to ruin your eyes... But this looks like Oliver/Felicity are having this conversation outside and Felicity decides to go back into the house. Barry looks like he's just hanging around... Maybe they have an argument in the house, Oliver/Felicity walk outside to finish the argument, Barry feels the need to intervene if it gets really bad maybe? ugh

 

tumblr_inline_nypl147Zoc1qb0zgx_500.gif

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I really like her hair there.

 

I still don't think the kid would inspire that reaction. Him keeping it a secret? That might. IDK

 

Same. 

 

It might be Oliver not wanting to be a part of the kid's life (Felicity's abandonment issues) (best option), him keeping it a secret, or the worst option is Felicity is angry at Oliver for having a kid he didn't know about

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Angel12d

Angel12d

I can't imagine Felicity would be mad at Oliver for having a child he never knew existed. If that happens they're just setting her up to be hated. That reaction wouldn't make any sense. If it was Laurel, I'd understand given that this child was conceived while he was in a relationship with her. The only reason Felicity would be upset is if he kept it a secret from her and/or starts saying he can't be in the child's life.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

I can't imagine Felicity would be mad at Oliver for having a child he never knew existed. If that happens they're just setting her up to be hated. That reaction wouldn't make any sense. If it was Laurel, I'd understand given that this child was conceived while he was in a relationship with her. The only reason Felicity would be upset is if he kept it a secret from her and/or starts saying he can't be in the child's life.

 

I honestly thought they were going to go for the "you're not really the father" storyline. The conflict around Oliver really being this child's father would be so much more key if Oliver was in  relationship with Laurel, and with that storyline dead in the water, I figured they'd back away.  I'm disappointed I was wrong, and I'm trying to remain positive that this won't turn into melodrama.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Oliver/Barry/Felicity love triangle?

 

I'm not worried about a love triangle, but that AK quote about it becoming a "real part of the show" is so disappointing to me. 

This is AK. He thought that Laurel's addiction arc would make us love her.

 

I'm interpreting "real part of the show" as  = having an actual role in an episode vs being a quick anvil.  It is Oliver's kid, she explains why she doesn't want Oliver to be part of his life, Oliver reluctantly agrees (the heartbreak), he decides to move forward with marrying Felicity because he's figured out that he wants kids.  Proposal next episode.

 

Felicity thinks that Oliver should stay a part of the kid's life because of her abandonment issues. They resolve it.

 

Felicity changes her mind after she meets her own father again.

 

I don't really get the big deal with the actress. She wasn't particularly impressive the two times I saw her and looking at her IMDB I'm not seeing what the fuss is about.

She was good in Defiance.  I don't think we've seen her do enough on Arrow to get a sense of her.

Edited by statsgirl
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kismet

kismet

AK talking about somebody having a real role on ARROW is something I do not put a lot of credence in. He seems to be on the producing credits as part of a legacy only. I don't think he has anything to do with the day to day or season to season ARROW plan. He might get a call here and there for his opinion. But nobody is making dramatic changes to cast, characters or plot based upon AK's thoughts. So I'm not worried about his thoughts or opinions.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Especially after an episode where Oliver said that being wiht Felicity has given him peace? Lol no. Ain't happenin'

 

They are more likely to mess with Felicity (4-09) and take his peace from him. For a while at least.

 

I bailed out of Defiance after like 6 episodes.

I thought the most recent season was its strongest but it's one of those shows that you cannot get too attached to characters since any character that wasn't one of the top tier leads is likely to wind up dead. Anna Hopkins character still being alive is something of a miracle. Actually I can't remember if she lived through the finale or not. Lol.

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