Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

I'd almost be happy if it were Felicity or Digg, bc then I could quit this largely-stupid show. 

 

But it's not...it's totally Quentin.

Please don't leave the show, what would we do without your insightful & snarky insight?

 

Out of curiosity ~ what will you do if it's not Quentin? You seem very sure, I'm just curious what will happen if its LL (who is I think the top contender) or someone else (the show would be beyond dumb to choose any other character besides a Lance).

[AyChihuahua]

Please don't leave the show, what would we do without your insightful & snarky insight?

 

Out of curiosity ~ what will you do if it's not Quentin? You seem very sure, I'm just curious what will happen if its LL (who is I think the top contender) or someone else (the show would be beyond dumb to choose any other character besides a Lance).

Aww, so nice!

 

I would throw an actual party, at which I would eat symbolic crow...maybe a nice Beef Wellington...if it was Laurel.  If it is Digg or Felicity, which I'm positive it's not, I'd quit the show.  I'd survive if it was Thea, although I quite like her now.  I'd say those are all the realistic contenders.  

Edited November 16, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[thegirlsleuth]

I think Thea should be safe.  The entirety of season three was built around Oliver sacrificing his life for hers, and killing her now would nullify all that drama.  Of course these writers also brought Sara back from the dead--the other big driver for last season--and as happy as I am with the result, they clearly have no problem undoing any sort of narrative progress in their stories or characters without a second thought. 

 

I could give you several reasons it's Laurel, but those would be coming from through my Laurel-is-dead rose-filtered glasses. Unless it is the last scene of the last episode of the last season, Diggle is the deal breaker for me--he dies, I'm out.  I currently have a lot of fears about Felicity. Do we know for sure that EBR signed on for the whole shebang? The actress seems very sweet and so far has avoided the "but what I really want to do is movies!" interviews where you get the sense that an actor wants off the shows, but if they failed to sign her for the full run of the series I could see her going out there and trying some different stuff as she's young and getting attention.  Curtis could fill the tech gap, a love interest to be named later could fill the LI role (I refuse to acknowledge Laurel as a possibility), and it would give Oliver another obstacle.  Dramatically I hate the idea of it,  I don't think that the producers would willingly let her go, and if he knows its coming Stephen Amell is probably already crying himself to sleep because the other half of his PR machine is gone, but it remains a concern for me.

 

But I still hope its Laurel.

[AyChihuahua]

Re EBR quitting the show:  I am not as knowledgeable about tv storytelling and moviemaking as quarks and dtissagirl and a few others, but it's VERY obvious that some time in S1 they made a huge, colossal, change in plans...instead of Laurel being his love interest and reason to become a hero, Felicity would be.  That is a really, really big change that is pretty unusual in a planned television show.  It would be like the writers of Supernatural deciding to kill off Sam after S1 and making it a lone hero story instead of a brothers story.  HUGE change...it's not just randomly switching love interests, bc this particular story is a hero's journey in which the love interest leads the hero into his heroism.  And changing that from THE Black Canary to a relatively random unknown character is big.  

 

Which means they almost certainly locked EBR in for as long as they want her.  I'm a contracts attorney, although not an entertainment contracts attorney, and my educated guess is that most of the actors are on a 3-year + options, meaning the studio/producers can exercise the option without the actor's consent.  In contract law in most cases you can't truly make a particular person work for you, because that would be involuntary servitude, but you can make it quite expensive for them to try to get out of working for you.

 

So yeah, I think EBR is locked in as long as they want her, basically.  (Conversely, they can actually get rid of any actor they want, either by not exercising an option or by just paying liquidated, meaning a predetermined amount, damages, aka cash.)

Edited November 16, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[Chaser]

Diggle or Felicity is a deal breaker for me. As much as I love Olicity, my favorite relationship is OTA. Erasing the possiblity of interaction would make me punch my ticket.

[kismet]

Sara only came back because of LoT. The Arrow writers did not bring her back willingly or because they wanted to. In their minds she was dead. They barely even wrote the poor actress any actual lines & shipped her off to visit her Mom, they probably consider her still dead.

 

I have no idea what EBR's commitment level or contract length is on the show. But I can't be worried that they would let her character die in s4. It's just so far out of the realm of possibility IMO if the death is supposed to stick. Not after all the build up they did to get her to where she is today. The sets, the wardrobes, the guest stars. It's just not happening. She or her character will probably be alive until they have an end date for SA's contract. And then I will start to be concerned about her death.

 

If I am wrong and they kill of FS, then I will have lost faith in a lot of things and most importantly in the show.

[thegirlsleuth]

Re EBR quitting the show:  I am not as knowledgeable about tv storytelling and moviemaking as quarks and dtissagirl and a few others, but it's VERY obvious that some time in S1 they made a huge, colossal, change in plans...instead of Laurel being his love interest and reason to become a hero, Felicity would be.  That is a really, really big change that is pretty unusual in a planned television show.  It would be like the writers of Supernatural deciding to kill off Sam after S1 and making it a lone hero story instead of a brothers story.  HUGE change...it's not just randomly switching love interests, bc this particular story is a hero's journey in which the love interest leads the hero into his heroism.  And changing that from THE Black Canary to a relatively random unknown character is big.  

 

Which means they almost certainly locked EBR in for as long as they want her.  I'm a contracts attorney, although not an entertainment contracts attorney, and my educated guess is that most of the actors are on a 3-year + options, meaning the studio/producers can exercise the option without the actor's consent.  In contract law in most cases you can't truly make a particular person work for you, because that would be involuntary servitude, but you can make it quite expensive for them to try to get out of working for you.

 

So yeah, I think EBR is locked in as long as they want her, basically.  (Conversely, they can actually get rid of any actor they want, either by not exercising an option or by just paying liquidated, meaning a predetermined amount, damages, aka cash.)

 

This is very helpful.  I'm familiar with book publishing, where the publisher has right of first refusal but we have to go through a completely new contract negotiations each time.  From what you describe EBR would be a little more locked in based on TV contracts, which is good from my perspective.

 

 

If I am wrong and they kill of FS, then I will have lost faith in a lot of things and most importantly in the show.

 

Oh, me, too, and you are so right about the level of commitment they've shown to the character and her storytelling this year.

[quarks]

[/prohat] I believe E.L. James of Fifty Shades fame currently uses the same agency for book/film contracts, but in general, book and film contracts differ enough that most writers use separate agents for each. Many agencies won't even handle both, though to be fair that's in part because many Hollywood agents just don't have the time to develop New York/London contacts and vice versa. So even apart from the differences in actor/writing contracts, I wouldn't use book publishing contracts as any indication of what might/might not happen on Arrow.

[statsgirl]

EBR is young enough and at the start of her career and smart so I tend to think that she wouldn't jump the Arrow ship on her own initiative, especially since it seems to be a time-limited show, being limited by how long SA wants to stick around and he's the one with a better movie career going.   I'd advice EBR to stay on Arrow and build up her movie resume during the hiatuses (hiatia?) with quality films like Brooklyn.

 

It was different for Cote de Pablo who left NCIS after 8 years of basically the same thing over and over again (a dead Marine is found, everything including the kitchen sink is thrown in to keep Tony and Ziva apart). She was 34 and it was now or never for her career.  (As actress Sara Botsford said, every woman over 40 is put in the same category.  She was once at an audition call and up against her daughter-in-law because they were both in the older actress category.)

 

Sara only came back because of LoT. The Arrow writers did not bring her back willingly or because they wanted to. In their minds she was dead. They barely even wrote the poor actress any actual lines & shipped her off to visit her Mom, they probably consider her still dead.

Remembering that they killed Sara without remorse so that Laurel could have a (very poor) reason to become the Black Canary reminds me that as good as this show can be, sometimes be, they can really misfire too.

 

I don't mind Sara leaving so soon because logically they have to keep her stuff back until the LoT.  But I wish she had had a conversation with Thea about dying and the Lazarus Pit.

 

(trivia:  Unlike other forms of publishing where you can send your stuff to as many publishers as you want and you can accept whichever you want, in academic publishing you can only send your paper to one journal. And then you wait, sometimes 18 months, to see if it's accepted or rejected. If it's rejected, you can send it to another journal and start the process all over again.)

[looptab]

EBR is young enough and at the start of her career and smart so I tend to think that she wouldn't jump the Arrow ship on her own initiative, especially since it seems to be a time-limited show, being limited by how long SA wants to stick around and he's the one with a better movie career going. I'd advice EBR to stay on Arrow and build up her movie resume during the hiatuses (hiatia?) with quality films like Brooklyn.

Agreed. She should make wise picks. Brooklyn seems a good one. By the way, the plural it's still hiatus;)

On a spoiler note, does it seem we know an awful lot yet not very much about this episode, or is it just my impression? They spoiled Andy in the promo, but other than Bamford directing, great action and the party, what do we know?

[statsgirl]

I know nothing, which is why I'm not waiting with eager anticipation.  But it's a sweeps episode so something must happen, right?

Maybe DD propositions Oliver in this one.

 

Thanks for the grammar tip.

[looptab]

I know nothing, which is why I'm not waiting with eager anticipation.  But it's a sweeps episode so something must happen, right?

Maybe DD propositions Oliver in this one.

 

Thanks for the grammar tip.

Right, there's Darhk approaching Oliver! I had forgotten about it.

And you're welcome :) I hope you didn't mind, I only felt like I could give it because it's latin, otherwise I can't really correct anyone's grammar :)

[AyChihuahua]

I guess some people are freaking out that EBR may not be in 4.11.  So maybe Felicity does have amnesia or otherwise leaves/is gone and AWOL partly refers to her.  I'm not here for that.  My tolerance for misery on this show is really, really low after S3, so Felicity being removed from the team for any reason just isn't doing it for me.

 

If she's just laid up in the hospital that's different, but I'm starting to think she may pull an Oliver and leave for whatever ill-conceived reason.

[Morrigan2575]

Why are people freaking out that she's not in 411?  What exactly is that based on?  Other than EBR being in LA this weekend and apparently doing an Interview with ET today (which means she's still in LA).  

[Velocity23]

I think 4x11 is a Diggle episode. We might even get flashbacks of the Diggle brothers.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Velocity23

[AyChihuahua]

Why are people freaking out that she's not in 411?  What exactly is that based on?  Other than EBR being in LA this weekend and apparently doing an Interview with ET today (which means she's still in LA).  

I'm not sure, but probably the LA thing, and the episode title.  I get that it likely is a Diggle thing, because it is a military term, but the writers like their titles to refer to multiple storylines/characters.

[apinknightmare]

It could have to do with Diggle and some dumb shit over on Flashback island, maybe. Maybe Quentin, too, because of something to do with Dahrk?

[Morrigan2575]

I still don't get how AWOL means Felicity (or really anyone) not showing up in the episode.  if you're doing an AWOL episode it would make more sense to focus on both the character that is Absent Without Leave and the fallout back at TA because that character has taken off on their own mission/thing.

 

I could maybe buy someone being missing if the title was MIA - Missing in Action but not AWOL.  

 

This just sounds like random panic, unless there's some specific spoiler out there that's prompting this freakout.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tarotx]

Awol probably means it's the SA light episode :p

Maybe Diggle's actions are what's going to get Felicity hurt. Once she's out if the Woods, he's going to decide to take off (Oliver like) and deal with HIVE and his Andy issues.

Felicity is probably still recovery. Diggle, Lyla and Baby Sara probably come to the loft because she can't leave. But Most of the episide will be Diggle related or perhaps have Oliver Awol from the Flashback camp as well.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm going to LMFAO if Felicity isn't in the hospital.  

[tarotx]

It would throw everything off but it's either her or the Behind the scenes people are going out of their way to make it seem like it's her. Imo.

I'm going to LMFAO if Felicity isn't in the hospital.

[looptab]

 SA light episode? Was this mentioned before or is it just spec?

[tarotx]

Nope but last year Stephen said he loved the time off during this period season 3. I feel we'll get it again this season. 4.10 seems almost like a limited setting episode so not as much time for the actors working. Than 11 seems Milataryish with the name and DR has been on set. It just fits my theories :p

SA light episode? Was this mentioned before or is it just spec?

Edited November 16, 2015 by tarotx

[Velocity23]

I dont think he really loved it. There was that interview where it didnt sound like he loved it.

[kismet]

Nope but last year Stephen said he loved the time off during this period season 3. I feel we'll get it again this season. 4.10 seems almost like a limited setting episode so not as much time for the actors working. Than 11 seems Milataryish with the name and DR has been on set. It just fits my theories :p

Usually I would agree with you, but OQ in the FB is in a militaristic setting. So my honest guess is that the AWOL is going to be reflected in Dig/Andy pd and OQ fb. So I don't think this is the SA light episode, I wonder if those will come more in the 14-16 range when the shooting is closer to the holidays. It seems like SA takes vacation time right after the holidays (I feel like he posted something about it on his social media), which would coincide with these eps being less about him.

 

I sorta agree with @Morrigan2575 that if they were doing a MIA episode it might include FS being MIA. But I can't see her going AWOL, even from the hospital. Especially not this year where everybody has permission to come and go on the team. And even on a business side, FS has already left the company for a 6mo stint away, so leaving the co AWOL probably won't mean anything to the board/co either.

[apinknightmare]

I dont think he really loved it. There was that interview where it didnt sound like he loved it.

Yeah, his first interview back made it seem like he wasn't so fond of that break.

Edited November 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think Thea should be safe.  The entirety of season three was built around Oliver sacrificing his life for hers, and killing her now would nullify all that drama.  Of course these writers also brought Sara back from the dead--the other big driver for last season--and as happy as I am with the result, they clearly have no problem undoing any sort of narrative progress in their stories or characters without a second thought. 

 

I could give you several reasons it's Laurel, but those would be coming from through my Laurel-is-dead rose-filtered glasses. Unless it is the last scene of the last episode of the last season, Diggle is the deal breaker for me--he dies, I'm out.  I currently have a lot of fears about Felicity. Do we know for sure that EBR signed on for the whole shebang? The actress seems very sweet and so far has avoided the "but what I really want to do is movies!" interviews where you get the sense that an actor wants off the shows, but if they failed to sign her for the full run of the series I could see her going out there and trying some different stuff as she's young and getting attention.  Curtis could fill the tech gap, a love interest to be named later could fill the LI role (I refuse to acknowledge Laurel as a possibility), and it would give Oliver another obstacle.  Dramatically I hate the idea of it,  I don't think that the producers would willingly let her go, and if he knows its coming Stephen Amell is probably already crying himself to sleep because the other half of his PR machine is gone, but it remains a concern for me.

 

But I still hope its Laurel.

 

I really can't imagine them killing of Felicity. I can't even compare it with what they did with Sara. Aside from her relevance in the narrative, from a marketing point of view, at this point, Felicity is almost as much the face of Arrow as Oliver Queen. They use her to sell characters. Her action figure gets sold out from the WB shop barely a month after it's released. Companies respond to her fans and acknowledge that merchandise for her is highly in demand. Like my mom said after she saw the grave scene, "they're not killing the golden goose."

 

And I do think she's locked up as tight as Stephen Amell is. I keep going back to 2 summers ago when Emily got a huge bouquet of flowers from the EPs and they kept congratulating her but not saying for what exactly. Pure speculation, but I think either her contract was extended or she got a nice salary bump. After the debacle that is LL/OQ, they would have wanted to make sure Emily stuck around.

Edited November 16, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[kismet]

I dont think he really loved it. There was that interview where it didnt sound like he loved it.

I think he enjoyed his time off... I think he didn't like how the story was going. Although he is a company man and promotes what the show promotes. I feel like his interviews in 3b were gracious but he still drop subtle hints that he was less than pleased with how the story was unfolding. So perhaps they can find a way to give him light episodes but not have it be so wonky and for crazy plot.

 

It's another reason why I have this gut feeling that they are going to have Dig go undercover with Darhk as a result of something with his Andy. And the OQ-light eps will be DR-heavy episodes because his storyline is meatier and the actor is talented enough to carry his own arc.

[Morrigan2575]

I think he enjoyed his time off... I think he didn't like how the story was going. Although he is a company man and promotes what the show promotes. I feel like his interviews in 3b were gracious but he still drop subtle hints that he was less than pleased with how the story was unfolding. So perhaps they can find a way to give him light episodes but not have it be so wonky and for crazy plot.

 

It's another reason why I have this gut feeling that they are going to have Dig go undercover with Darhk as a result of something with his Andy. And the OQ-light eps will be DR-heavy episodes because his storyline is meatier and the actor is talented enough to carry his own arc.

I don't think he did, at all.  The impression I got post "vacation" was that it was very much a be careful what you wish for scenario with SA.  He seemed to want some time off before actually getting it but afterwards he totally seemed to hate that he was not on set, missing the action and filming and pretty much not being the star.  I don't think that break sat well with his ego and his competitive nature but that was just my interpretation.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think he did, at all. The impression I got post "vacation" was that it was very much a be careful what you wish for scenario with SA. He seemed to want some time off before actually getting it but afterwards he totally seemed to hate that he was not on set, missing the action and filming and pretty much not being the star. I don't think that break sat well with his ego and his competitive nature but that was just my interpretation.

Yeah, that's what it seemed like to me, too.

[tarotx]

I did mentioned FB Oliver in my original post. And These episodes were the Canary Trilogy last season(11-13)? This season I think it will be a Diggle one. Oliver was never actually absent from an episode last season and the FB's can filmed before or after with a second unit?

I didn't follow the shooting schedule last season before break because I didn't start watching Arrow until after 3.09 aired. Binged watch the whole series and the first half of Flash at once.

I had Finished DW/Torchwood and needed A JB fix. Funny how I want MM dead now :p And I'm obsessed with Arrow more than any show I've watched since BTVS/Angel went off the air.

[tangerine95]

I don't think we will get episodes where Oliver has less screentime like in season 3.I do think they will give others more flashbacks in the second half and give SA a break that way but I doubt were getting anything like those 3 episodes in season 3.

IMO he wasn't a fan of those episodes.He will always sell the show and support it but I get the sense he wasn't a fan of being pushed out of his own show so others can become insta heroes.

[apinknightmare]

I don't think he cared so much about why it happened, he just didn't seem to like *that* it happened. Didn't he say he actually visited the set while he was on his little break? Or am I mixing that up with something else?

[kismet]

I don't think he did, at all.  The impression I got post "vacation" was that it was very much a be careful what you wish for scenario with SA.  He seemed to want some time off before actually getting it but afterwards he totally seemed to hate that he was not on set, missing the action and filming and pretty much not being the star.  I don't think that break sat well with his ego and his competitive nature but that was just my interpretation.

 

 

Yeah, that's what it seemed like to me, too.

Alright. It just seemed like he mentioned being excited for his vacation this year but perhaps that has nothing to do with filming. But whatever, the show will write what it wants to write regardless of SA personal vacation preference. He'll just have to make the most of it.

[tarotx]

I was a new fan back then so I probably was just judging his words more honest than Show promotion.

[Ann Mack]

I think he enjoyed his time off... I think he didn't like how the story was going. Although he is a company man and promotes what the show promotes. I feel like his interviews in 3b were gracious but he still drop subtle hints that he was less than pleased with how the story was unfolding. So perhaps they can find a way to give him light episodes but not have it be so wonky and for crazy plot.

 

It's another reason why I have this gut feeling that they are going to have Dig go undercover with Darhk as a result of something with his Andy. And the OQ-light eps will be DR-heavy episodes because his storyline is meatier and the actor is talented enough to carry his ow

 

 

Do you have a link to the interview?

[apinknightmare]

Alright. It just seemed like he mentioned being excited for his vacation this year but perhaps that has nothing to do with filming. But whatever, the show will write what it wants to write regardless of SA personal vacation preference. He'll just have to make the most of it.

 

Well, they do get a long break at Christmas, so he probably is excited for that. I just got the impression that he didn't like being out of the loop—so to speak—for an extended period, and would probably prefer if his role wasn't minimized in the future. IIRC, there was really only the one interview where he seemed like he wasn't to thrilled about getting what he wished for. In later interviews (at the up fronts, I think), he acted fine with it.

Edited November 16, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Ann Mack]

Stephen Amell ‏@amellywood
"Can't take a photo today without dropping an insane spoiler. Might be the coolest day ever as Oliver Queen."

 

Now this has me really intrigued are they still working 4x11?

[Chaser]

They are shooting ep11 11/9 to 11/23.

EBR having a long weekend may not mean anything for Felicity. The photo shoot is her own PR but this interview is for Arrow so they probably scheduled her around it.

[Morrigan2575]

Yep, it's not like she hasn't gone to LA for interviews before and still filmed for an episode. In S2 she did a slew of press rounds in LA that were done while filming 213.

[looptab]

Stephen Amell ‏@amellywood

"Can't take a photo today without dropping an insane spoiler. Might be the coolest day ever as Oliver Queen."

Now this has me really intrigued are they still working 4x11?

Expect jbuffyangel coming up with another wedding theory in 3..2..1

[wonderwall]

Expect jbuffyangel coming up with another wedding theory in 3..2..1

Choo choo?

 

god I hate that. Right along with the word f*ckening. 

 

Gross. 

[apinknightmare]

He wrote Oliver Queen, not the Arrow. Maybe it's something mayoral?

 

No more wedding theories, please. PLEASE NO.

[Morrigan2575]

Don't they normally film flashbacks on Mondays?

[looptab]

Haha, it just popped in my mind that inspiration could hit her, but I hope it doesn't. If I'm right, though, you all owe me for the warning!

[bijoux]

4x07 is the first episode with the non-Oliver flashback of the season, isn't it?

[Morrigan2575]

4x07 is the first episode with the non-Oliver flashback of the season, isn't it?

Maybe? I thought they said 408 but it's totally possible they meant 407 and we're going to get and Andy flashback. I know we debated this when rumors of the Andy actor filming 407 first showed up (DR'S tweet). We debated if it was Flashbacks and talked about first non Oliver flashbacks being 407 or 408.

[apinknightmare]

Don't they normally film flashbacks on Mondays?

 

Yeah, seems like Poppy's filming today (based on her Twitter), so it's probably something in the flashbazzzzzzzz

[bijoux]

Maybe? I thought they said 408 but it's totally possible they meant 407 and we're going to get and Andy flashback. I know we debated this when rumors of the Andy actor filming 407 first showed up (DR'S tweet). We debated if it was Flashbacks and talked about first non Oliver flashbacks being 407 or 408.

Okay. I just felt like it should be near, because I'm pretty sure it's supposed to happen before episode 9.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, seems like Poppy's filming today (based on her Twitter), so it's probably something in the flashbazzzzzzzz

Sex scene? Blah Edited November 16, 2015 by Morrigan2575