Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

Posted in the Tweet thread, where it belongs.

Edited March 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morena]

frankly, I find it strange so much interest in proving that Roy will not die. If not him, it is not best for EPs that people to believe he will die and then be surprised at who will die?

[ban1o]

mmm they could be doing flashbacks or something lol. 

My issue is  they all made it very obvious that Roy was going to die and now it seems like they are messing with us. I don't know what to think lol. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by ban1o

[Guest]

If they didn't want everyone to speculate who was going to die, then they shouldn't have told us someone was going to die in the first place. I enjoy debating spoilers as much as the next person but I probably would have been genuinely shocked by any death in 319 if I didn't know about it. 

 

Actually, on that note, have they spoiled anyone's death before? I wasn't involved in fandom in s1 and s2 and I know they didn't spoil Sara's death so is this a new thing? If they haven't done it before it makes me wonder whether this is just a temporary death after all and this is all smoke and mirrors bullshit.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

I don't think an EP has come out and said someone was going to die before. We pretty much figured Moira was going to bite it when she did though (someone spoiled that on Reddit, I think). The fact that they did it makes me think that it might not be permanent, but who knows. 

[blixie]

Eh considering the still irate reactions about killing Sara (and to a lesser extent Shado and Moira), I can see why they wanted to prep those that like to be....prepped. Gives people time to work through stages of anger. 

[Guest]

No, the more I think about it, the more it feels like a temporary death and this is just MG trying to get people to watch because who wouldn't want to watch an episode to find out who dies? 

 

Oh yeah. Me. Lol.

[Morrigan2575]

If they didn't want everyone to speculate who was going to die, then they shouldn't have told us someone was going to die in the first place. I enjoy debating spoilers as much as the next person but I probably would have been genuinely shocked by any death in 319 if I didn't know about it. 

 

Actually, on that note, have they spoiled anyone's death before? I wasn't involved in fandom in s1 and s2 and I know they didn't spoil Sara's death so is this a new thing? If they haven't done it before it makes me wonder whether this is just a temporary death after all and this is all smoke and mirrors bullshit.

Closest, I remember was in S1, the week leading into the finale we found out there would be 2 deaths. I don't remember how it was revealed just remember on TWOP & IMDb people were speculating on 2 deaths.

[apinknightmare]

That clip of Ra's and Oliver is the first time I've ever wanted to kick Ra's in the teeth, haha. 

[wonderwall]

That clip of Ra's and Oliver is the first time I've ever wanted to kick Ra's in the teeth, haha. 

Even Ra's knows how far deep he is in with Felicity ;) I know I know, making everything shippery is stupid. But it's the only place where I draw happiness from in the show nowadays so sue me

[Chaser]

Ra's should skip the pit and take a shower.  

 

There was a similar monologue in The Dark Knight Rises right?

 

I get a little thrill every time a villain mentions Felicity. But seriously, did he bug the Foundry too? Maybe Malcolm told him.

[apinknightmare]

Even Ra's knows how far deep he is in with Felicity ;) I know I know, making everything shippery is stupid. But it's the only place where I draw happiness from in the show nowadays so sue me

 

Haha, it's okay. We all have to take what we can to get through. 

 

Ra's is just so nasty and he went straight for Oliver's heart while he just sat there in his robe looking like he had the meat sweats. 

[closer2fine]

Naturally Oliver returns to Starling to find out Felicity and Ray are an item and Ra's was right.

 

That dialogue tease HAS to be Oliver to Felicity. I've watched enough soap operas. I know how that scene goes. Bonus points if Ray enters asking Felicity about her body wash. 

[apinknightmare]

That dialogue tease HAS to be Oliver to Felicity. I've watched enough soap operas. I know how that scene goes. Bonus points if Ray enters asking Felicity about her body wash. 

 

I'm really hoping it's Roy/Thea and I'm going to hold onto that hope until Ray pops out of Felicity's bedroom half naked while Oliver's standing there all broken in her living room. And then I'm going to start a kickstarter for a new tv. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

PET PEEVE, people who talk while chewing. For that alone Ra's should die a dying death of deadness.

[Chaser]

If it is Oliver to Felicity, he better be the one to turn and walk away and she better be trying to pull him back. Oh the puppy dog face, it would hurt too much. Also it really make me hate Ray. A lot.

 

Well it is totally possible its Oliver to Felicity, I'm thinking its Thea to Roy. If he's biting the bullet they are going to try and make it hurt as much as possible, that means giving him happiness with Thea. That and I don't Oliver would leave Malcolm alone with Thea at night. She might kill him.

Edited March 18, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[closer2fine]

I'm really hoping it's Roy/Thea and I'm going to hold onto that hope until Ray pops out of Felicity's bedroom half naked while Oliver's standing there all broken in her living room. And then I'm going to start a kickstarter for a new tv. 

I want SO BADLY for it to be Roy/Thea. 

 

But this is Arrow, and the dumbest scenario is usually the right one. 

[GirlvsTV]

Watched the preview clip . . .

Is it just me or is this sort of similar to the Slade plot from last year? Slade went after Oliver Queen and it was very engaging as a story because we watched his relationship with Oliver develop over two seasons, so the attacks felt very personal and more emotional.

Fast forward to this year and it seems like we ultimately have R'as going after the Arrow instead of Oliver. Spoilers suggest everything R'as says in that clip is about to come true and, unless R'as can see the future, I'm going to assume he actually puts some of those events into motion himself. Slade attacked Oliver on a personal level and now it seems like R'as will be attacking the Arrow's professional life. Even to the point where R'as might be the one to tell Det. Lance who the Arrow is, the same way Slade told Laurel last year.

Except the development of this season's storyline has been so muddled that I don't find it effective, emotional or interesting.

[apinknightmare]

If it is Oliver to Felicity, he better be the one to turn and walk away and she better be trying to pull him back. Oh the puppy dog face, it would hurt too much. Also it really make me hate Ray. A lot.

 

Well it is totally possible its Oliver to Felicity, I'm thinking its Thea to Roy. If he's biting the bullet they are going to try and make it hurt as much as possible, that means giving him happiness with Thea. That and I don't Oliver would leave Malcolm alone with Thea at night. She might kill him.

 

Yeah, I would feel marginally better if she asked him not to go, but dude that's just...it's too much. He's already seen them kiss, and we can just start 3x16 with him being in the know, but I doubt it because it seems like they're going to pick up right where they left off? Or maybe they'll flash back to Oliver's dinner with Ra's and he'll already know. I just really don't want to have to watch him find out about it. 

 

It does make sense that it would be Thea since she probably wouldn't want to be alone with Malcolm but...the urge to inflict max manpain has to be strong for these writers. 

[apinknightmare]

The only thing that makes me feel slightly better about that dialogue teaser is that I think Oliver would be lost and confused after coming home from Nanda Parbat, and if that was the case and he needed/wanted some reassurance from Felicity, seems like he'd go straight to her house when he returned, and based on the comic preview it seems like he goes straight to the foundry when he gets back. Ultimately I guess that doesn't mean anything though - he could have a nightmare or...something and go to her house because reasons. 

 

I had myself uplifted, but now I'm down again. 

 

I still think Thea to Roy makes the most plot sense. Oliver to Felicity makes the most drama sense, ugh. 

[closer2fine]

I still think Thea to Roy makes the most plot sense. Oliver to Felicity makes the most drama sense, ugh. 

 

There's your answer.  In all seriousness, I would love, love, love to be proven wrong. 

[apinknightmare]

There's your answer.  In all seriousness, I would love, love, love to be proven wrong. 

 

Well, I mean all signs point to it being Thea to Roy. They're supposed to have a moment, MG said we'd see Roy's place this ep (and there's that still of him reading a book in his bedroom). Thea seems to be in more emotional turmoil than Oliver, and she goes after Malcolm (who is sleeping on the couch in her home) with a knife.

 

I would be really surprised if it had anything to do with Oliver and Felicity, I'm just preparing myself. 

Edited March 18, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

I can't imagine Oliver saying that to Felicity they're just not there relationship wise. Then again in S3 character serves plot so it's totally possible if the point is to drive Oliver towards Ra's Ollie Ghul.

This reminds me of the "you'll always be my girl" line...and now I just jinxed it.

[dtissagirl]

321 title spec: http://twitter.com/thenerddess/status/578015423121125376

Watch the sneak peek again and Ra's called Oliver "Al Sahim" that could also be the title of 3x21 @mguggenheim

Apparently it means "Arrow":

http://www.reddit.com/r/translator/comments/2t7c4h/how_do_you_say_the_archer_in_arabic_phonetically/

[Carrie Ann]

Man, I was trying to figure out LoA name options last night for that title, and never thought about looking up Arrow for some reason.

[Genki]

That's interesting and an Arabic title would be spoilery.

[apinknightmare]

Man, I was trying to figure out LoA name options last night for that title, and never thought about looking up Arrow for some reason.

 

Same. Although I did think to look up Batman arcs, so I'm learning. 

[wonderwall]

Apparently it means "Arrow":

 

I don't think it is, a person has been matching titles and it didn't fit. 

[dtissagirl]

I know nothing of Arabic, but Google says it might be "Al-Sahm". That's 7 characters.

[apinknightmare]

If that is his LoA name (although, would he have a League name if he was becoming the next Ra's?), then I guess he's really joining up and I'm really glad that Felicity, Diggle and Thea are there with him. Although why in the hell are they there? Is it some ploy to bust him out or did they make a deal that he could have an entourage? Are they just there to see him off? 

 

I really don't understand what is happening, haha.

[statsgirl]

Al-Sahm makes sense if it's when he decides to be the new Ra's.

 

The previous dialogue teases have been about Felicity but they've also been tweeted by MG. This one is courtesy of Beth Schwartz, who runs the Arrow Writers Room twitter account.  I'm going to assume that it's Thea and Roy.

 

I used to watch a little show called Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World, and we used to joke around that the worst dialogue ever was "They've taken the women" from the Voodoo Queen episode.  But listening to that clip, the torch has now been passed.  That's just godawful.

 

Is it just me or is this sort of similar to the Slade plot from last year? Slade went after Oliver Queen and it was very engaging as a story because we watched his relationship with Oliver develop over two seasons, so the attacks felt very personal and more emotional.

Everything about this season feels like a re-do, except so much more badly done.  And must more distanced because there isn't the O/D/F scenes to draw me into the sh ow.

[dtissagirl]

I have no idea what Ra's offer entails exactly. Does he retire immediately? Or is it that Oliver needs to be groomed for the position for a certain amount of time? 'Cause those two things are actually two completely different narratives.

Edited March 18, 2015 by dancingnancy

[statsgirl]

 

“She feels like he may be giving up everything he’s worked for, but given an ultimatum leaves him choice-less for the time being,” Rickards says, noting that Felicity will reassess her feelings “and also what she’s willing to sacrifice: Herself.”

Maybe this is where/why/if she decides to go with him to Nanda Parbat.  She would be sacrificing her life and everything she's built in Starling City.  #IncurableOptimist

[Password]

How does Ra's know about Miss Smoak????? All the villains know now? Did he get a Smoak signal from Merlyn, Huntress or Slade? I must know immediately.

So, I assume Ra's puts in place everything that he says will come to fruition. He's actually made me interested, darn him.

I'm so glad Dig and Felicity are going with him. They're always better as a united front *sniff*

Edited March 18, 2015 by Limbo

[TrueMyth]

The dialog tease we are spec'ing on is "I don’t know what I’m doing anymore... I don’t know who I am... Can I just stay with you?" right?  If so, doesn't the first part match the Asian promo?  Oliver says it in what seems to be the Foundry. (I'm typing with a sleeping hubby next to me, so I can't listen again to confirm).  Why does everyone assume it's delivered in an apartment/bedroom?  Because of the "stay with you"?  Odd phrasing for the Foundry, sure, but maybe not for the situation.

 

Maybe Ra's tortured some intel on Oliver out of Malcolm?  Malcolm certainly seemed to be in a "I'll tell you anything" mood when he was brought before Ra's.  That, or, more amusingly, maybe Maseo told Ra's about Laurel (not that flashback-Oliver has talked about her much at all lately), and there's another potential retread of the villain threatening the wrong woman.

 

I have crazy speculation for the end of the season... what if Ray is hurt in 18 and it leads Felicity to question her feelings (with the help of Mama Smoak) and realize she's just not that into him, he's replacement Oliver...

Then, in episode 19, just as she's getting ready to break things off with Ray, the Foundry goes down or she is threatened in some other way, and Ray saves her at the cost of his own life (or nearly).

Episode 20 starts with Oliver's mad dash to the hospital, thinking Felicity is hurt, but it's Ray who is near death.  Felicity asks the crazy favor of Oliver, who has 'til this point managed to put off Ra's, in part due to Felicity's pull.  Felicity asks Oliver to LP Ray... possible even to become Ra's to do so.  Felicity is feeling guilty//genuinely cares for Ray as a friend, but Oliver believes them to still be an item and hears Felicity's request as if it's on behalf of her love.  He wants her to be happy, so he agrees.

Yadda, yadda, I'm assuming whoever is LPed in 20/21 isn't showing up in the behind the scenes pictures because they'd be in "death" make-up.

At the end of the season, a newly alive, but possibly scrambled Ray leaves Starling to cope with the affects of LPing.  He and Felicity share a scene where she explains her feelings for him... dear friends.  Felicity becomes CEO of Palmer Tech, and keeps in touch with Ray, leaving possibilities for crossovers.  Oliver believes Felicity loves Ray and is in a happy, long-distance relationship with him (keeping it cool while Ray works through the trauma of the LP), he trains with the LoA with the idea of becoming Ra's and consuls himself that Felicity is happy.

Start of season four, a new threat calls Oliver back to Starling, but the dynamic is obviously different.  Oliver and Felicity both love each other, but angsty angst.  Sigh.

 

Really though, I want Sara to be LP'ed.  If she and Ray are LP'ed around the same time, it would give them a nice bond going into the new series.  I speculate they may try to cook a romance there.  Ray is just like Oliver, after all. ;)

[kismet]

Maybe its a team building retreat... bonding field trip to Nanda Parbat! They were viaing for a new leadership style. Somebody in the writers room clearly watched the US version of the Office and saw that Michael Scott used his field trip to help determine his successor, and this is their homage to it. Maybe they'll be walk over fire & true love confession. It would be entertaining to watch the LoA interact with TA in a non-battle situation.

 

In all seriousness, I really can't think of reason why they all need to go on this journey to NP if OQ is surrendering to his new calling. A direct attack would be dumb & a secret mission to sneak him out well its too soon for that. So maybe it is a LP trip for one of the TA members.

 

But yea that clip release was the first time Ras actually struck me as someone that poses a threat to OQ from a mental/emotional/psychological stand point. What he was doing wasn't impressing OQ, but it certainly got him thinking.

[foreverevolving]

is it possible that the person dying is Nyssa?

I know crazy, but.. I'm running out of ideas and it's late.

[Belinea]

I wonder whether Felicity will actually sacrifice herself for the mission/Oliver/her feelings...whatever she is currently in for. I would like to see how she feels (clearly) before she makes any life changing decisions. Does that make sense? At the moment (imo) I don't see why she would want to give up her life for Oliver. Yes, she cares but I haven't felt like she loves him to that extent. 

 

Also if they go back in time at the end of the season or to an alternative universe because of the Flash, I will be not happy. That is just such a stupid plot device. That way they can screw up and have it not be important because it is not real anymore. 

[chaos is welcome]

I'm sorry, but if that whole line from Ras about the Arrow being alone is actually given merit, by Oliver or the stupid show, I may break something.

Just because Felicity is banging Ray should not reduce the partnership of OG Team Arrow . . . I think that's what I hate the absolute most about what they have done with pursuing Olicity, is they have COMPLETELY forgotten the core relationship of the team.  Felicity's ability to call him on his shit, the fact that he comes around fairly quickly and listens to her, that entire dynamic.  

If they actually go through the steps of isolating him from Diggle and Felicity, or if he just BAM, decides all those "YOU ARE NOT ALONE" moments of S1 and S2 no longer matter because Diggle has a family and Felicity has a love interest . . . I just can't.  

[SleepDeprived]

Finally had the chance to watch the Ra's' monologue for Oliver. Lmao that the villains of this show, especially the Big Bads, are such huge gossips. Isabel, Waller, Slade, Ra's, Malcolm... All of them so very interested in the love lives of their enemies/persons of interest. Anyway, Ra's is so totally going to make each and every point he "happened" to raise come true to force the Demon Head title on Oliver (WHY, THO?). Eagle-eyed viewers better watch for that blonde guy in the fake-Arrow costume in the sizzle reel to be one of the randos at Nanda Parbat.

 

So far, nothing released about tomorrow's episode is making me want to tune in. Well, maybe Thea and how she handles Malcolm's return. I'm just filled with dread that we'll get more kicking of Oliver while he's down and more splintering of my beloved Team Arrow. Please let that line tease be of Thea to Roy. And please spare me any more bedroom/domesticity scenes (waking up in bed, eating breakfast in bed, whatever, whatever) of Felicity and Palmer, especially if Oliver were to ever be shown to come over at a soap operatically inopportune time. Times like these, I'm so glad to be on the west coast so that I can gauge the east coast reactions/suffering/frustrations first before even touching that DVR recording.

[BkWurm1]

Eagle-eyed viewers better watch for that blonde guy in the fake-Arrow costume in the sizzle reel to be one of the randos at Nanda Parbat.

 

Wasn't DJ Douchbag a blond?  We wouldn't be getting him back, could we?  It would both be a twist and a lead into the powers of the LP. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm sorry, but if that whole line from Ras about the Arrow being alone is actually given merit, by Oliver or the stupid show, I may break something.

 

It is being given merit, we know this. Oliver gave up the thought of having a life to be the Arrow (this is why Ra's says he loves a woman he knows he can't have - I don't think it has anything to do with Ray, Oliver's been thinking he had to be alone since the first ep of the season). Ra's is just letting him know that the people he's trying to save are going to turn on him. The people he's working with in SCPD are going to turn on him, they're going to hunt him, and he'll die for it. I don't think it's a prophecy so much as a promise, because Ra's is going to make sure it happens. 

[apinknightmare]

Finally had the chance to watch the Ra's' monologue for Oliver. Lmao that the villains of this show, especially the Big Bads, are such huge gossips. Isabel, Waller, Slade, Ra's, Malcolm... All of them so very interested in the love lives of their enemies/persons of interest. 

 

I'm going to laugh so hard if Oliver finds out that Felicity and Ray are dating/whatever from Ra's. 

 

 

Wasn't DJ Douchbag a blond?  We wouldn't be getting him back, could we?  It would both be a twist and a lead into the powers of the LP.

 

He was, but SleepDeprived is talking about the blonde guy dressed up as the Arrow whose face we saw when Oliver unhooded him. Fortunately (or unfortunately, I guess), he was not DJ Douchebag. 

[BkWurm1]

He was, but SleepDeprived is talking about the blonde guy dressed up as the Arrow whose face we saw when Oliver unhooded him. Fortunately (or unfortunately, I guess), he was not DJ Douchebag.

 

Ah, I see.  I wasn't sure if we'd ever seen a shot of new blond guy's face.  I really didn't like DBDJ and it would have stung if he lived while Sara still doesn't (even if we have great hopes now for the future - I'll stop complaining once I have Sara back for sure...maybe I'll stop.)

[looptab]

David Ramsey posted a pic of him and KC as Black Canary, in the van. I wonder whether it's been taken when it was posted or if it's part of the recent "throw'em off track" plan, too. I TRUST NO ONE.

[lexicon]

I'm sorry, but if that whole line from Ras about the Arrow being alone is actually given merit, by Oliver or the stupid show, I may break something.

Just because Felicity is banging Ray should not reduce the partnership of OG Team Arrow . . . I think that's what I hate the absolute most about what they have done with pursuing Olicity, is they have COMPLETELY forgotten the core relationship of the team.  Felicity's ability to call him on his shit, the fact that he comes around fairly quickly and listens to her, that entire dynamic.  

If they actually go through the steps of isolating him from Diggle and Felicity, or if he just BAM, decides all those "YOU ARE NOT ALONE" moments of S1 and S2 no longer matter because Diggle has a family and Felicity has a love interest . . . I just can't.  

 

I agree about the destruction of TA's bond as being among the worst casualties of this season but don't think it was sacrificed as a result of Olicity but rather because of the stupid identity theme which the EP's decided had to pervade every character and every issue this season. To be quite frank the decision to shoe horn the newbie heroes into the show did us no favours either. How can there be enough TA interaction to force a discussion about OQ's issues and to encourage him to get his head out of his ass, when FS always has to run off to prop RP or LL, who is always in the foundry (does she sleep there?) interrupting?

 

I miss the days when Felicity and Dig would stop Oliver by any means necessary from making a stupid self sacrificing decision, including knocking him out to prevent him from handing himself over to Slade and certain death to save everyone else. With all the BTS pics of SA, EBR, DR, WH et al in a Nanda Prabat like setting, here's hoping they're working on re-introducing that much needed team dynamic into the show because honestly I don't know how much more sad lonely Oliver I can take.

[Sunshine]

Maybe this is where/why/if she decides to go with him to Nanda Parbat.  She would be sacrificing her life and everything she's built in Starling City.  #IncurableOptimist

It probably is.  IIRC she has a scene with Maseo in 3.17 (ended 02/06) or 3.18 (began 02/09). Karl Yune picture on Feb 9 and confirmation of shooting w/EBR that week on Feb 2.  She is supposed to stand up to someone in a surprising way.  Isn't 3.18 when QL gets kidnapped by RAG or am I confused again? LOL 

 

I think dialogue tease is Thea to Roy.

[dtissagirl]

Maybe I've been bitten by the optimism bug too, but it would be just like Felicity to rally up Team Arrow and tell Oliver if he's going to Nanda Parbat to be an idiot, then they're all coming with.

[Morrigan2575]

It probably is. IIRC she has a scene with Maseo in 3.17 (ended 02/06) or 3.18 (began 02/09). Karl Yune picture on Feb 9 and confirmation of shooting w/EBR that week on Feb 2. She is supposed to stand up to someone in a surprising way. Isn't 3.18 when QL gets kidnapped by RAG or am I confused again? LOL

I think dialogue tease is Thea to Roy.

it's entirely possible that Felicity does decide to stay with Oliver in Nanda Parbat. If the spec about the title of 321 is correct it would make sense. Oliver turns Ra's down in 316. Ra's makes Oliver's life hell until he has no choice but to give in. Oliver and team head to NP (bargin a life for a life?). Oliver become Al Shem (?) in 321 and agrees to be Ra's heir. Felicity stays with Oliver to help him keep his humanity, rest of team heads home to SC.

if S4 really is a grassroots change, becoming and staying Ra's Ollie Ghul would certainly qualify.

[Sunshine]

it's entirely possible that Felicity does decide to stay with Oliver in Nanda Parbat. If the spec about the title of 321 is correct it would make sense. Oliver turns Ra's down in 316. Ra's makes Oliver's life hell until he has no choice but to give in. Oliver and team head to NP (bargin a life for a life?). Oliver become Al Shem (?) in 321 and agrees to be Ra's heir. Felicity stays with Oliver to help him keep his humanity, rest of team heads home to SC.

if S4 really is a grassroots change, becoming and staying Ra's Ollie Ghul would certainly qualify.

This would certainly change John & Oliver's relationship too!