Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

25 minutes ago, Chaser said:

BS two-parter? She escapes on the Flash mid season premiere and shows up on Arrows. She gets to be VoTW on both. 

This kinda makes sense, and they can boast about how many mini-crossovers they are doing while at it.

[looptab]

Wait, so the episode that deals with Havenrock is 504? I thought that was a Diggle/Oliver episode and that Havenrock would be dealt with in 505/506.

I'm not upset over WM's interview and the Laurel stuff. She basically said "we're ok we killed her and we are not going back on that". Did it get a bad reaction?

[wonderwall]

I can imagine it now... 

Black Siren escapes in the Flash episode. She goes to Star City where she wreaks havoc. Team Arrow is both shocked and in disbelief that Laurel is still alive not knowing that this is E2 Laurel (thanks Barry for not telling anyone that she escaped!). The more she destroys, the more Team Arrow try to save her from herself.

In the end it's Oliver, her one true love, who gets through to her. He makes her see sense and that what she's doing is wrong.  

And that's how Laurel will stay and be a part of the team. It'll be an adjustment. The team will have to reacquaint themselves with her. But sooner or later they all become best buddies. Laurel/Oliver on the other hand feel more for one another. They fall for each other slowly and by the end of season 5, they share a passionate kiss. 

LMAO

Edited October 4, 2016 by wonderwall

[Chaser]

Oh so canceled...

5 minutes ago, looptab said:

Wait, so the episode that deals with Havenrock is 504? I thought that was a Diggle/Oliver episode and that Havenrock would be dealt with in 505/506.

I'm not upset over WM's interview and the Laurel stuff. She basically said "we're ok we killed her and we are not going back on that". Did it get a bad reaction?

The impression I'm getting it that Havenrock simmers in the background for quite a few episodes. EBR mentioned 5x03 to 5x05 in regards to Felicity breaking down. 

[tv echo]

Felicity/Havenrock episodes...

Quote

-- In response to fan concern about language saying Felicity killed thousands in Havenrock when it was Darhk who killed them, Brian Ford Sullivan tweeted: "All I can say is: Episode 504." (Sep. 23, 2016 briforsul tweet, page 44 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- On Havenrock, EBR: "She's carrying this huge amount of guilt, and she's not letting it go in any way. All it's doing is festering up and around episodes 3-5 [of Season 5] we're going to see her break." Also, because of Havenrock, EBR understands that Felicity can no longer be light. (Sep. 1, 2016 NKD Magazine article, page 1129 of Spoiler Discussion thread, and page 467 of Social Media thread)

Quote

-- MG: "In the first five episodes, we face head-on the decision that Felicity made [that led to the destruction of Havenrock]." (Sep. 9, 2016 Entertainment Weekly article, page 43 of Spoilers thread)

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Chaser said:

Oh so canceled...

Don't you dare cancel me

[Guest]

Unless she was saying that Felicity killed all those people from Ragman's POV since he was from Havenrock, WM using hater rhetoric is concerning. Guess we know exactly who this show is catering to these days. 

[Chaser]

You put 'Overwatch' into the universe! With great power comes great responsibility!

Repeat after me "Olicity gets married...Olicity gets married .... 5x09....5x09"

[wonderwall]

Just now, Chaser said:

You put 'Overwatch' into the universe! With great power comes great responsibility!

Repeat after me "Olicity gets married...Olicity gets married .... 5x09....5x09"

I CAN'T HELP THAT I'M SO POWERFUL OK. 

ALSO OF COURSE THEY'RE GETTING MARRIED. Maybe not in 509, but definitely getting married lmao

I was just describing nightmare Guggenheim, Mericle, AND Stephen had :p

[looptab]

Thanks guys :) I missed - or erased from my memory - that tweet from Sullivan.

I'm happy about Machin being in the premiere. I don't think we knew about it? The BTS side of thing is being disappointing this season.

Anyway I want the sneak peek!

[BkWurm1]

I thought the rehearsal dinner was the cast going out to a nice Resturant and doing a script read?

 

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Spoiler alert, Wendy: you never fucking left bleak. That you think you did and that this year is going to be bleaker, well...yikes.

I think she's using bleak as code for Oliver is back to killing.  

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I thought the rehearsal dinner was the cast going out to a nice Resturant and doing a script read?

According to the pap it says "rehearsal dinner on the call sheet"

Quote

YVR BG Actor ‏@yvrbackground 35m35 minutes ago
@PepperDempsey @snarky_bee@greenarrowfan16 The call sheet specifically says "rehearsal dinner at a luxury restaurant"

[Guest]

Aw, Felicity and her mayo bread are getting hitched! 

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Aw, Felicity and her mayo bread are getting hitched! 

She could've at least chosen that tangy zip of Miracle Whip. 

Seriously though, if they announce that Charlotte Ross is back for 5x09, it's sandwiches 4 lyfe. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

She could've at least chosen that tangy zip of Miracle Whip. 

Seriously though, if they announce that Charlotte Ross is back for 5x09, it's sandwiches 4 lyfe. 

LMAO.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I'm waiting for it. Stale sandwiches 4 lyfe.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Aw, Felicity and her mayo bread are getting hitched! 

Can we call him tiny hands instead?  I keep thinking I'm reading Mayor rather than Mayo.

Edited October 4, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

Can we call him tiny hands instead?

Tiny hands. Stale mayo bread. Stale bread. Bland McBlanderson. You take your pick! ;P

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

 I don't get how anyone credibly in the audience would blame her but I could understand how someone from Havenrock could be emotionally irrational and say that if Felicity hadn't interfered, Havenrock would have survived and millions be damned.

Maybe? I guess maybe I'm just not remembering the idiotic end of last season very well, but weren't there nukes headed to, like, everywhere? Seems like the good people of Havenrock's lives would've been changed regardless. I suppose it doesn't really matter, the show's gonna show. God, why did they have to pull the trigger on such a dumbass storyline. So many are dumbass, but that is DUMBASS dumbass. 

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe? I guess maybe I'm just not remembering the idiotic end of last season very well, but weren't there nukes headed to, like, everywhere? Seems like the good people of Havenrock's lives would've been changed regardless. I suppose it doesn't really matter, the show's gonna show. God, why did they have to pull the trigger on such a dumbass storyline. So many are dumbass, but that is DUMBASS dumbass. 

Only one nuke had to be redirected.  I think it moved twenty miles over.  

[tv echo]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Tiny hands. Stale mayo bread. Stale bread. Bland McBlanderson. You take your pick! ;P

Please, not "tiny hands." Just reminds me of someone who we're not allowed to talk about in this forum.

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe? I guess maybe I'm just not remembering the idiotic end of last season very well, but weren't there nukes headed to, like, everywhere? Seems like the good people of Havenrock's lives would've been changed regardless. I suppose it doesn't really matter, the show's gonna show. God, why did they have to pull the trigger on such a dumbass storyline. So many are dumbass, but that is DUMBASS dumbass. 

They were able to lock down the other nukes before they launched. However one got away from them an launched. That's why she had to divert it using the GPS trick. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe? I guess maybe I'm just not remembering the idiotic end of last season very well, but weren't there nukes headed to, like, everywhere? Seems like the good people of Havenrock's lives would've been changed regardless. I suppose it doesn't really matter, the show's gonna show. God, why did they have to pull the trigger on such a dumbass storyline. So many are dumbass, but that is DUMBASS dumbass. 

Yep. Felicity couldn't stop the last nuke which was heading for Monument Point. So all she could do was redirect it to a smaller town. Edit: Or what everyone else said. Haha.

This is where it shows how dumb it was to use nuclear bombs on this show. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Only one nuke had to be redirected.  I think it moved twenty miles over.  

Right, but what I meant was that there were a bunch of other nukes that she, her father, and Curtis somehow stopped. If Felicity hadn't stepped in they would've landed - so blaming her in any way still doesn't make a lot of sense to me, since once she admits to being involved in stopping the nukes, like...it's pretty obvious that the entire landscape of the US/world would've been irrevocably changed if she hadn't - including for the people of Havenrock.

Edited October 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I was right there when GATV put her in the Villain category and I wanted to rage too. I get the concern that they are going to wreck the whole storyline (I have the same) and WM isnt helping. The Hater speak I've seen just doesn't resemble what I'm reading from WM. The logic may be similar but not the sentiment. I'm clearly not expressing this right. 

Im seeing a lot of yelling at the writers and prejudging the whole thing instead of just expressing concerned. It doesn't sit right with me.

I agree yelling at the writers before the episode airs is silly but I still understand why people are worried about it. 

[looptab]

20 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

. Right now it sounds like they're trying to vilify her to appease those who don't like her and that's just infuriating. 

I'm with @Chaser in that I don't see quite the same sentiment coming from WM's words and the haters - while I do understand the concern, I'm not worried about it at the moment. Something it just occurred to me could be happening, though, is that these writers have tried before to 'address' audience complaints, in the hope of eradicate them. Except the subject was Laurel. I'm thinking 'Canaries' and that whole trilogy in S3. Or the Constantine episode in S4. So maybe they might be trying to 'vilify' Felicity in the show, just to rehabilitate her. I think there's a chance.

[Chaser]

I think Ragman is going to blame her for Havenrock and she is going to agree. Oliver is going to be the one to say it isn't true. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'm with @Chaser in that I don't see quite the same sentiment coming from WM's words and the haters - while I do understand the concern, I'm not worried about it at the moment. Something it just occurred to me could be happening, though, is that these writers have tried before to 'address' audience complaints, in the hope of eradicate them. Except the subject was Laurel. I'm thinking 'Canaries' and that whole trilogy in S3. Or the Constantine episode in S4. So maybe they might be trying to 'vilify' Felicity in the show, just to rehabilitate her. I think there's a chance.

Fingers crossed you're both right. I hope so. But again, I don't have any faith in the writers anymore, not that I had much in the first place. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

20 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Please, not "tiny hands." Just reminds me of someone who we're not allowed to talk about in this forum.

Lol, but I love it too much.  All I can see is that picture and his creepy not Oliver hands.

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Right, but what I meant was that there were a bunch of other nukes that she, her father, and Curtis somehow stopped. If Felicity hadn't stepped in they would've landed - so blaming her in any way still doesn't make a lot of sense to me, since once she admits to being involved in stopping the nukes, like...it's pretty obvious that the entire landscape of the US/world would've been irrevocably changed if she hadn't - including for the people of Havenrock.

But someone could argue (foolishly) that if she'd just let the one bomb hit Monument Point then 20 thousand Havenrock people would be alive.  Of course had she not done everything she could to save Monument Point she would have had those millions of lives lost on her hands in a much more real way.  It's IMO like an innocent bystander getting hit during the crossfire during a hostage situation where had the police not acted, all the hostages would have been killed.  Not acting would have put real blame on her.

As it is, Felicity is not to blame or at all responsible for Havenrock, but I can still see how Ragman would convince himself her actions led to its destruction.  

[looptab]

I'm blanking on this tiny handed person that we're not allowed to talk about, lol.

Slight change of topic, but how come we haven't heard anything about Colton Haynes? Isn't he returning for the 100th?

[BkWurm1]

How big is his role on Scream Queens?

[tarotx]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

How big is his role on Scream Queens?

Going by tweets, it seems to have been one episode but I don't watch the show.

[calliope1975]

TIIC don't know how to write misplaced guilt. Oliver had a lot of legitimate misplaced guilt when Shado was killed, but that turned into - Oliver chose Sara over Shado even though anyone who watched the show knew that wasn't true. I would not be surprised at all if other characters (other than Ragman) believed or expressed that Felicity "killed" thousands of people even though, again, that's not what actually happened. It goes along with the weird choice of Diggle not telling Lyla the truth though we all know she would be the first to put down a threat to her family. 

Feeling guilty even though you weren't responsible is valid and could be an interesting exploration of character. I don't trust these hacks to do anything remotely resembling justice to the story. 

Give me Roy any day of the week. I hope he does show up again, but I haven't seen anything about him being in or around Vancouver lately.

[looptab]

This is a travesty. They bring back Laura and not Roy? Ugh.

[apinknightmare]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

But someone could argue [Edited by mod] that if she'd just let the one bomb hit Monument Point then 20 thousand Havenrock people would be alive.  Of course had she not done everything she could to save Monument Point she would have had those millions of lives lost on her hands in a much more real way.  It's IMO like an innocent bystander getting hit during the crossfire during a hostage situation where had the police not acted, all the hostages would have been killed.  Not acting would have put real blame on her.

As it is, Felicity is not to blame or at all responsible for Havenrock, but I can still see how Ragman would convince himself her actions led to its destruction.  

Yes, but I'm just not talking about the bomb that hit Havenrock specifically, but the fact that there were however many in the air at one point (in the 20s, IIRC) - and it was broadcast on the news - so the entire country was aware that this was happening...it just seems kind of illogical to me that Ragman would go looking for the person responsible for Havenrock getting nuke since there was a whole sky full of them that Felicity & co tried to stop and mostly succeeded. Unless, I suppose, he's not angry at her for being the one who accidentally nuked Havenrock, but he's angry at her for that being the one nuke she couldn't stop. That's the only way it would make sense to me. At all. 

But this show is nonsensical, so...it's whatever, I guess.

[Morrigan2575]

Did they hit the air? I thought we only had 2 the one that was in SC that Felicity Curtis some how diverted and the one that Felicity altered the GPS so it hit Havenrock?

From Monument Point

Quote

I think I got an algorithm down to 300 lines for the uplink.
Have you tried to break the JSI encryption ? That way, you can directly bypass the PAL.
Yeah, you're right.
[Gunshot] 3 minutes till Rubicon launches the nukes.
Oliver: Overwatch, Amar is headed inside.
We're running out of time.
- Are you hit? - No! [Alarm blaring] No, no, no, no.
Oh, no.
[Voice distorted] What's happening? We got every nuke except one. 

[Speaking Russian] We lost one.
It's in the air.
Headed straight for Monument Point.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Did they hit the air? I thought we only had 2 the one that was in SC that Felicity Curtis some how diverted and the one that Felicity altered the GPS so it hit Havenrock?

Unless I'm completely misremembering, I'm pretty sure there were more and that they addressed them by doing something unbelievably idiotic like shifting their trajectories up into the atmosphere (maybe even exploding them there). I feel like there was some reason they couldn't do that with some of them (the SC and Havenrock ones) because they were too close to hitting? I can't remember.

[Guest]

There were some in the air. Remember that one heading straight for Star City while Oliver stood on that cab and gave a speech? And Curtis and Felicity were on the roof trying to divert it.

[Morrigan2575]

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Unless I'm completely misremembering, I'm pretty sure there were more and that they addressed them by doing something unbelievably idiotic like shifting their trajectories up into the atmosphere (maybe even exploding them there). I feel like there was some reason they couldn't do that with some of them (the SC and Havenrock ones) because they were too close to hitting? I can't remember.

Going through the transcripts now. In Monument Point there was only 1 Nuke that launched . In Schism it looks like 15k launched. Getting details now.

In Schism they diverted the missle that was about to hit SC using some sort of line of sight techobabble.

After that, they got control of Rubicon through Cooper and inverted the Earth's Axis to confuse the Missile into going up to space instead of hitting land.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Going through the transcripts now. In Monument Point there was only 1 Nuke that launched . In Schism it looks like 15k launched. Getting details now

I usually rewatch Arrow eps, but I didn't rewatch any of 4B - I forgot that the Monument Point nuke was separate from the nukes in the finale (and got the other Rubicon nukes confused with just the one headed toward Star City). So, just to back up my previous point it would still make more sense to me if Ragman got upset that Felicity couldn't stop the nuke that hit Havenrock rather than being upset with her for somehow being the one responsible for the nuke. A minor distinction, but an important one to me, haha.

Edited October 4, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

OtherPapDude said that they are filming at the Manison on Friday for 5x08 and they aren't filming a rehearsal dinner this week at all.

Idk. Maybe both? Unless things changed, SA is supposed to be filming Arrow 5x09 on Friday. I wonder if some of the cast is at the mansion (ST, JS ) and others are at a dinner.

[calliope1975]

I'm at a very, very low point mood wise today, so reading those tweets makes me think darkest timeline. Moira and Robert are back So is KC. Rehearsal dinner. I've made myself even more depressed. 

[looptab]

3 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm at a very, very low point mood wise today, so reading those tweets makes me think darkest timeline. Moira and Robert are back So is KC. Rehearsal dinner. I've made myself even more depressed. 

I had the opposite reaction, haha. To me that sounds amazing - them at a rehearsal dinner, just to realize that nope, no chance in hell, Earth 1, 2, 47 or alternate timelines whatsoever.

[lexicon]

9 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm at a very, very low point mood wise today, so reading those tweets makes me think darkest timeline. Moira and Robert are back So is KC. Rehearsal dinner. I've made myself even more depressed. 

There there. I'm pretty down about the show as a whole right now and won't be tuning in until it starts to return to a direction that I'm interested in but I will say I have never felt that the show has ever signaled a return to LL/OQ once O/F was a thing. And if that doesn't pick you up, just think about it like I do, if they ever hint at Loliver being a thing again that'll be the best indication yet that Arrow is not the show for me and will make permanently cutting that cord so very very easy. 

[thegirlsleuth]

15 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm at a very, very low point mood wise today, so reading those tweets makes me think darkest timeline. Moira and Robert are back So is KC. Rehearsal dinner. I've made myself even more depressed. 

I've been trying, with limited success, to not be a complete pill about this new season.  That said, I have three things in mind that if they come to pass, will result in me walking away from the show. First, if people we trust--Diggle and/or Oliver--place the blame for Havenrock on Felicity.  Second, if in 5.08 they present an alt-reality in which Oliver and Laurel are together not because it will have any lasting effect on the show, but because I will be done with their manipulative fan-baiting.  Third, if Laurel comes back permanently. 

There are also a number of things that could annoy me out of the show, including the focus on newbies I don't care about, marginalization of Diggle and Felicity, Oliver keeping secrets from everyone he professes to love, giving all the technical skills to Curtis, Sara Diggle now being Connor Diggle, Felicity marrying the plot device boyfriend, and Oliver's skills being downgraded like they were last season.

I have Olicity Queen.  I don't have to hang around for this. 

[statsgirl]

While I don't give a damn about the newbies and Thea only tangentially, Diggle's storyline has promise.  If they do it, that is, rather than just wrap it up quickly for the usual Oliver&masks storylines.

I think for me, how they handle Felicity's bf in 501 and 502 is going to be the key.  If there is any indication at all that she's really serious in real time about tiny hands rather than it being a consequences of Flashpoint or PTSD, I'm going look for another show to be my primary hangout.

[calliope1975]

I don't think KC is here to stay; I'm just not interested in seeing her at all.

And yet, I would like to see a Christmas Carol type what if? on this show. I don't know. It's complicated. I need alcohol, antidepressants, and a better team of writers. 

[Belinea]

I can just imagine that for the 100th episode they'd go to this place where everything is the way Oliver would have had it if he never had gotten on the boat. Both parents and LL as his wife. But obviously it cannot be and so they have to/want to go back but hopefully they won't take that LL with them in any way shape or form.

[tv echo]

But if Oliver never got on the boat, he never would've met Felicity or become BFFs with Diggle. Would he really want that?

Also, Oliver was cheating on Laurel with her sister Sara before he got on the boat. And he would've remained the same selfish, unfaithful jerk that he was before his five years away.

Edited October 4, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I wonder who Oliver's side piece would be in said ep? Surely he'd duck out of the rehearsal dinner to go bang someone who wasn't Laurel, and that person would hopefully not be Felicity, but one of Laurel's other relatives just to keep the theme going. 

[looptab]

Dinah. It's canon.