Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Midnight Lullaby]

About Felicity there's no point in talking about any of that IMO because we have no way of knowing if any of that will be touched during the season. I speculate if I have something concrete to go on. The rest is stuff I'd like to see but realistically I have no idea how likely it is to happen.

About Diggle who knows? That's how far the discussion can go. I have absolutely no idea. Right now we don't know if David is even filming yet so until we don't at least know that or see for example a pic of him with one of the others I can't form any idea in one direction or another.

I don't see the point of discussing if the finale didn't give us elements to base speculations on and we have no new informations. We can speculate on Oliver but on Felicity or Diggle I wouldn't know what to say.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Btw, re an earlier post, O/F being in the same room together, or being on comms speaking to each other, is not an Olicity scene.

Really?  So all those S2 and S3 scenes weren't Olicity? The hug in 422 wasn't Olicity? If that was the case then how was Olicity a thing from 103 on? They weren't together in S1, S2 or even majority of S3 yet there were plenty of Olicity scenes.

Quote

They are not going to show any of that having any meaningful impact on Felicity, and they definitely didn't set it up to show it having any meaningful impact on her. Everybody was joking around the very next episode, and EBR herself said something like that's the show. 

You mean, she gave the exact answer she always gives to questions like that? Yes, obviously this means they won't explore her reaction to the Nuke. Hell, they didn't even bother to deal with her paralysis at all...oh wait

You know what, I'm just going to agree to disagree with both of you. It seems we have vastly different beliefs on what's worthy of discussion/speculation regarding Diggle and Felicity.  

[Chaser]

Unrelated question: Do all the actors meet with the producers before the season starts?

I know SA had a meeting with them about S5 and EBR mentioned having a meeting at a Con.

[Midnight Lullaby]

The problem isn't what's "worthy" discussing regarding Felicity and Diggle. The thing is without an indication the show is taking a direction, even a little hint, I'm not able to discuss because I can talk about what I'd like to see but I'm not working for the show and the past taught me they almost always make decisions about characters or SLs I wouldn't have chosen or even thought about.

And this isn't just about Felicity and Diggle. This is in general. If I don't know anything I don't make up possible scenarios about what might happen because I'm aware I'm probably wrong so what can I even discuss with people about? I'm not even convinced myself of what I'm saying might happen.

[dtissagirl]

5 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Unrelated question: Do all the actors meet with the producers before the season starts?

I know SA had a meeting with them about S5 and EBR mentioned having a meeting at a Con.

I imagine all of the regulars talk to the EPs about the first nine in more detail, since they tend to start the season with that mostly mapped out, and in broader terms about the full season [themes, if there are already ideas about where their character lands in Feb Sweeps + finale, etc]. Whether that's an actual real meeting in person or phone calls/email chains, who knows.

[quarks]

26 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Unrelated question: Do all the actors meet with the producers before the season starts?

I know SA had a meeting with them about S5 and EBR mentioned having a meeting at a Con.

[/prohat]

I can't speak to Arrow specifically, but most shows do try to set up at least one meeting for all regulars/recurring with producers/writers/management, though for some shows this is now done via Google Hangouts or Skype. It usually covers pragmatic issues like expected ADR, shooting times, costume fittings, not being allowed to bring peanuts to a specific set, when/if the talent has to attend sexual harassment classes, that sort of thing.  For some actors and shows, it can cover upcoming plots and storylines, though sometimes it's just warning of something coming up - "We have a scene where we'll need you to fall on a mat, and it looks like we're going to need you to fall on the mat a lot. Are you ok with this?" 

[statsgirl]

I'm glad the producers talk to the actors (although it doesn't seem to have done much good wrt Laurel) but I'm more concerned as to whether they talk to the writers and directors. That's where the real power is.

I think there is lots of scope for speculating on Diggle and Felicity, but little indication from any affiliated with the show that it's worth doing.  All the spoilers we've got are about Oliver and the newbies. 

 

20 hours ago, HighHopes said:

Nothing has really made me want to tune into this season yet. No Team Arrow, little info on Felicity, and I am one of the few who have never really been interested in the Bratva storyline... 

I'm hoping that the Bratva storyline is better than season 4's flashbacks but that's setting the bar pretty low.

As much as I like David Nykl, I'm leery about the Bratva because they're not nice people (fanfics to the contrary), and I've never enjoyed the torture scenes on the show, shirtless or not.

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Really?  So all those S2 and S3 scenes weren't Olicity? The hug in 422 wasn't Olicity? If that was the case then how was Olicity a thing from 103 on? They weren't together in S1, S2 or even majority of S3 yet there were plenty of Olicity scenes.

I think many of the s2A scenes weren't Olicity because they were building the ship.  I found a lot of s2B scenes not Olicity and I hated much of s3 when Oliver was jerking Felicity around.  Oliver being an asshat and Felicity dating Ray wasn't the Olicity I want to see.

I don't remember a hug in 422 but I remember being struck by the last scene in 423 and how anti-Olicity it was. Even though Felicity was saying she would stay with Oliver and fight with him, it was as platonic as Oliver/Diggle, and far less romantic than Oliver/Barry.

8 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

I think the sizzle reel will be, as kismet said, lots of punch-bam-kabow, heavy on the Oliver, light on the OTA, very light on the Olicity, heavy-ish on the newbies and St. Laurel. I think it'll still probably look cool, though. Bam's a sucky director, but quick cuts of action shots in a promo reel are pretty easy to make look cool.

I don't know how cool they'll look because at this point, too often the fight scenes is when I go get a drink but I think you're right, it will be all action and little character indications.

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

What I'd like is one little detail about one of them so I can stop being so incredibly bored when I think about the show and have something to talk about.

Exactly how I feel.

Maybe they think we don't need spoilers for Felicity and Diggle because those of who like them will tune in anyway but nothing I've heard about s5 makes me excited to tune in.

I want to know something about Diggle in his time away, or what Felicity is going to do about Palmer Tech.  The fact that she's not in that scene where Oliver is giving his mayor speech worries me that she'll be pushed aside while the show concentrates on a bunch of newbies I don't give a flying fig about.  It worries me a lot.

[AyChihuahua]

Quote

Really?  So all those S2 and S3 scenes weren't Olicity? The hug in 422 wasn't Olicity? If that was the case then how was Olicity a thing from 103 on? They weren't together in S1, S2 or even majority of S3 yet there were plenty of Olicity scenes.

I don't understand this question. Olicity is not about O and F being buds. Portmanteaus are used for platonic relationships (see, e.g., Delicity), but this portmanteau is specifically about the romantic relationship bw the two characters. O and F working together as colleagues and teammates is not automatically Olicity. There can be moments of Olicity in collegial/platonic scenes, but just bc they are in the same room together or speaking on comms in a professional manner doesn't make it an Olicity scene. Otherwise Felicity watching Oliver and Sara kiss in S2 was an Olicity scene. Oliver walking in on Ray and Felicity kissing was an Olicity scene. It's more than being in the same room together. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What info do we have that suggests Curtis has a mask as of 501/502?  It's been confirmed that he'll become Mr. Fantastic in S5 but that seems to be his season long journey...not coming back from Summer break in mask

It doesn't matter when he gets the mask for me - the reason he is there is to get a mask. I was just giving rationale as to why I think that he is newbie. He could get it the last minute of 523 and I will still consider him one of the newbies. I'm not invested in any of the newbies journeys, at this point I say hand out the masks in 502 and call it a day.

Personally I'm just waiting for them to find reasons to kill of or get rid of the newbies for plot purposes I don't even care if they are logical. I hope they are 1 season wonders. Curtis has already over stayed his welcome, but I realize I am in the minority when it comes to Curtis.

Edited July 16, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

43 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I don't understand this question. Olicity is not about O and F being buds. Portmanteaus are used for platonic relationships (see, e.g., Delicity), but this portmanteau is specifically about the romantic relationship bw the two characters. O and F working together as colleagues and teammates is not automatically Olicity. There can be moments of Olicity in collegial/platonic scenes, but just bc they are in the same room together or speaking on comms in a professional manner doesn't make it an Olicity scene. Otherwise Felicity watching Oliver and Sara kiss in S2 was an Olicity scene. Oliver walking in on Ray and Felicity kissing was an Olicity scene. It's more than being in the same room together. 

S1: can i trust you scene...very often pointed to as the first "real" Olicity scene.  The face touching in Huntress Returns episode, the elevator shaft.

S2: Jungle swing, QC swing, hell the "a friend told me to find another way scene". The blood scrubbing scene in 204, the sad Felicity scene in 206 (after Oliver has sex with Isabel), the "because the life i lead scene", the "there was no choice" scene in 207, the Oliver/Felicity scene at the mansion when Oliver apologizes and invites Barry. The fight scene in 209, the hug in 209, the annointing Oliver with and the mask, the fight scenes/jealous Oliver scenes in 210, all of the Oliver/Felicity scenes in 221-223 (the 2nd lair scene, the bridal carry , not done fighting,  find another way, the mansion scene, the beach scene).

S3: the date, the kiss at the hospital the flirting scene where he asks her out or when he asks about Italian. the fight scene in 302, the sad scene in 307 where Felicity overhears Oliver talking to the shrink, the i love you/goodbye scene in 309, the coffee "hocking" scene in 108, the "i don't want to be a woman you love", the scenes of them talking at Diggle's wedding, the scene of them saying goodbye to Roy in 319) leaning on his arm), I'll skip 320, the scenes of Felicity saving Oliver in the ATOM suit.

S4: skipping to post breakup. The fake wedding and emotional break up scene in 416, the saving each other in 417 and the awkward I'll always come for you (or whatever Oliver said in 417), all of the Oliver/Felicity scenes in 420, the hug in 421 or 422 after monument point and he comes back from facing Darhk. 

Are you telling me that none of those are "Olicity"scenes because they weren't in an official romantic relationship?  If so they you and I have a monumentally different definition of what Olicity is/means

Edited July 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

For me an Olicity scene is when there was an intentional or unintentional interaction between the 2 either via writing or acting. Them sharing dialogue on the comms is not enough to warrant an interaction if the whole purpose is just plot exposition or mission related. If they discuss a couple related item like their date, then yeah its an Olicity moment. If not, its just 2 colleagues on comms.

For me Olicity can be platonic, but its far more entertaining when it is romantic. I think they can have fun platonic moments, but most of the time they always carry an undertone of romance or sexual tension even in s 1/2. In s1/2, it worked and did not feel coupley because they were not, nor had ever been a couple. Moving fwd, any platonic scene that would worked in s1 & s2, might no longer work because of their history. I can see writers avoiding moments between them to avoid the appearance that Olicity is getting back together.

They might decide to throw in a few teases. But if they are moving fwd with Olicity- The friendship, I can see a drop in their overall interactions because even when the writing is not romantic, the chemistry between SA/EBR is overwhelming and often twists the tone of the interaction. I do wonder if that is why the writers intentionally wrote O/F often not in the same room in s3. It might sidetrack the story they are telling. I can see something similar happening in s5, where the writers have no choice but to minimize their interaction entirely to ensure their story.

[way2interested]

Well, at this point, all I know from what we've seen is that EBR has been in 2 scenes after 8+ days of filming, meaning that either Felicity is completely sidelined in the first two episodes of the season, or, what I think is more likely, that there are plenty of scenes with her but just no bts of them. That being said, since Oliver and Felicity were the only two that stayed and are the leads, they will probably have scenes together. No, just because they are in a scene together doesn't mean that it's Olicity, but, more often than not (I'm saying like 70-80% or more), scenes that involve just the two of them, whether directly related to the plot or not, hold some form of weight to their relationship, to what I consider Olicity scenes, whether it's about showing it physically (their convo in 405 which did have exposition and did not have Olicity talk about their relationship), showing it emotionally (their convos in 419, one which referenced their relationship, one which didn't), or pushing it forward (420, one which only referenced their relationship in terms of what Felicity said in 416 and not them talking about their actual relationship and one which was just Oliver explaining how he beat Darhk). 

Platonic moments are platonic moments (arguably 423, but still with one direct interaction indirectly referencing their relationship, one with Felicity understanding Oliver's feelings and psyche, and another that cemented Felicity as someone who would always stay with Oliver even if it was in a somewhat platonic way), most of which I consider the moments of them interacting in group settings, because many scenes with just the two of them I feel are never completely platonic because they've always been about showing their deep relationship with each other. There does come the issue that the writers just would not write scenes with just the two of them together (like the problem of 313-315, 321-322, 417-418 and 421-423), but, considering that all of the season openings, barring the pilot, have had at least one scene between just Oliver and Felicity, which more often than not pushes/expresses their bond, I think the chances are high that there's something for them in 501. Sure, they can have a scene that's "platonic" between them, but given the types of platonic scenes seen recently in 423, one which did reference their relationship, and two that showed Felicity as supportive and willing to stay with Oliver which pushes their relationship in a more positive light, I don't think platonic necessarily equates no substance towards their relationship.

Also, not to be picky, but while I do agree that comms dialogue doesn't necessarily mean Olicity moment, I can't help but think of the comms moments I do consider Olicity moments (301, 307, 208 of Flash, and to a lesser extent 406, for example).

[AyChihuahua]

Quote

Also, not to be picky, but while I do agree that comms dialogue doesn't necessarily mean Olicity moment, I can't help but think of the comms moments Ido consider Olicity moments (301, 307, 208 of Flash, and to a lesser extent 406, for example).

That's not picky; it's perfectly reasonable. My point was that comms/working together moments aren't necessarily Olicity moments. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. If there are moments in the reel of O/F interacting professionally, that doesn't necessarily mean they are Olicity moments, but they could be. There just has to be something more than platonic interaction during the professional interaction. 

Quote

most of which I consider the moments of them interacting in group settings, because many scenes with just the two of them I feel are never completely platonic because they've always been about showing their deep relationship with each other. 

This I think is in the eye of the beholder. If Oliver asks her about her new boyfriend, or to switch frequencies, I'm probably not going to see that as an Olicity moment. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

This I think is in the eye of the beholder. If Oliver asks her about her new boyfriend, or to switch frequencies, I'm probably not going to see that as an Olicity moment. 

I definitely agree. Likewise, if Oliver and Felicity have a discussion about what they think about the legacies that they are trying to uphold, GA/Mayor and Palmer Tech (even though ugh "Palmer Tech," but, hey, it's something Felicity cares about), I probably will see that as an Olicity moment.

[Sunshine]

I simply need Oliver & Felicity to have scenes together.  I don't care if they are platonic or romantic.   

[Ann Mack]

Hmmm so 5x01 is titled

Spoiler

"Legacy"

and 5x02 is titled

Spoiler

"Recruits"

. Bamford posted that stupid "Mayor" picture and nothing about Diggle, Felicity and to some degree Thea has been posted by anyone. I really don't give to much of a care about Curtis and nothing so far on Paul other than he was back from his post. Possibly Diggle not filming yet and Felicity may have a small to extremely small role in either of the first 2 episodes. Is Arrow intentionally trying to squash any excitement about Season 5 for me? Seeing a FB picture of a shirtless Oliver did nothing for me, I hope the show isn't thinking this will make many women swoon and tune in just for that. Hell I can Google many shirtless guys who look better than that. Guess I'm just venting because for me so far the first 2 episode titles are a bust and the lack of information on the characters I care about is beginning to deter me a lot. Hope they have something exciting for SDCC but also not just fighting and blowing things up, but this is Arrow so it will probably be fighting and blowing things up. Hope they can begin to raise my excitement level. Hopefully also this season will have good story lines, character development, decent writing and good stunts because last year was a mess after 4x08 (what a clusterfuck that episode was) IMO. 

 

Wasn't sure if I could actually list the episode titles. If I could then just disregard the spoiler portion or if it bothers anyone one way or the other I will correct the post.

Edited July 16, 2016 by Ann Mack

[looptab]

Judging an episode ftom the title is like jusging a book from its cover :) Of all the things to be frustrated about listing the titles seems a bit excessive, haha.

About the Olicity scenes in previous seasons, which was it this blood scrubbing scene in 204? :D

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, looptab said:

About the Olicity scenes in previous seasons, which was it this blood scrubbing scene in 204? :D

Yes, 204.

Oh and I forgot one of the biggest Olicity scenes in S2, the "you won't lose me scene" in 213...probably because of O/S. 

Quote

Judging an episode ftom the title is like jusging a book from its cover :) Of all the things to be frustrated about listing the titles seems a bit excessive, haha.

Wait, you mean a title and a handful of BTS pics doesn't tell me the whole story of 501/502?  Madness! Madness, i tell ya!

[looptab]

56 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yes, 204.

Oh and I forgot one of the biggest Olicity scenes in S2, the "you won't lose me scene" in 213...probably because of O/S. 

Wait, you mean a title and a handful of BTS pics doesn't tell me the whole story of 501/502?  Madness! Madness, i tell ya!

I fear not. Sorry! :D 

Right, that scene at the party in front of Isabel. Totally forgot about that one. :) That's something I'm looking forward to, people making excuses for Oliver and him trying to get away. 

[wonderwall]

53 minutes ago, bijoux said:

This desk seems sturdy >:)

[Thundercatmary]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

This desk seems sturdy >:)

This is good to hear, you know for safety reasons ;)

[wonderwall]

Just now, Thundercatmary said:

This is good to hear, you know for safety reasons ;)

Oh I'm very safety conscientious :D

[tv echo]

I know that Arrow is no longer going to be a launching pad for new spinoffs, but with all these newbies, I still see Arrow being used as a testing ground for possible future LoT cast members.

I'm also feeling a little discouraged by the lack of Felicity and Diggle news, but I'm hoping we'll get something at SDCC.

Regarding that on set pic in the Spoilers thread, should I read anything into the fact that EBR's chair is amidst a bunch of newbies' chairs?

Edited July 16, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

33 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I know that Arrow is no longer going to be a launching pad for new spinoffs, but with all these newbies, I still see Arrow being used as a testing ground for possible future LoT cast members.

I'm not convinced they stopped the launching pad.  It may not be a direct we've launching this show next season thing but, i really believe they are testing a Young Justice/Teen Titans spin-off possibility with Wild Dog/Artemis and with the return of Roy.

However,  i also agree on character testing for LoT.

[Chaser]

No, I wouldn't read anything in the placement of EBRs chair. Lol

I feel isn't more than Wild Dog, Artemis and possibly Roy. I wouldn't be surprised if Echo is there too. It does feel like a tester group.

I have no idea where it would fit in the programming if that did plan out. 

[Morrigan2575]

32 minutes ago, Chaser said:

No, I wouldn't read anything in the placement of EBRs chair. Lol

Her chair is there because she's filming.  Why else would it be there?

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Her chair is there because she's filming.  Why else would it be there?

@tv echo asked if she should read anything into the placement of her chair in the middle of chairs for the newbies. 

[dtissagirl]

Uh, no. Chairs aren't positioned in billing order or anything. If you're in a scene, you have a chair nearby.

[kismet]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Regarding that on set pic in the Spoilers thread, should I read anything into the fact that EBR's chair is amidst a bunch of newbies' chairs?

 

From how they have used her before, I imagine that FS will be heavily involved in helping these newbies find their way. She is the Den Mom to all the newbies. So her chair there just makes sense because she is filming her scenes. Another analogy I'm seeing in my head is Wendy to the Lost Boys.

I actually think we'll see more Mentor/NurtureFS than we will MentorOQ.

9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

This desk seems sturdy >:)

I love how legit almost everyone's mind went to a dirty place the minute that picture went up both here and on Twitter. Very sturdy indeed ;) And curtains for privacy :)

Edited July 16, 2016 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

16 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

@tv echo asked if she should read anything into the placement of her chair in the middle of chairs for the newbies. 

Oh thanks, i missed that.

[quarks]

I did read the final scene in 423 as romantic. Oliver thought Felicity was leaving him all alone in the Arrow Cave. But she didn't - and she was the only one who stayed by his side. AWWWW. And the camera framed the two of them together in the very last image.

AWWWWW.

Moving on to spoilery stuff: so, basically, I'm the only person who looked at the Oliver on the mayor's desk picture and thought, seriously, Arrow? Your first official behind the scenes season five picture outside the Arrow Cave - and it's a reused set? Are you kidding me, Berlanti?

Since most of the new guys - Wild Dog, Artemis, Vigilante - seem to be in fighting, not tech roles, I'm assuming that if they do get mentored/trained (who knows), my guess is that, just as in the past four seasons with Helena, Diggle, Roy, Thea, Barry and in that one scene with Laurel, Oliver will be doing most of the training/mentoring.

Curtis is the exception, but he seems to be doing the actual mentoring of Felicity, at least, not the other way around.  I liked pretty much all of the Oliver/Curtis scenes from last year, and since Curtis spent most of last season working with Felicity, it might be a lot of fun to change up that dynamic a bit and force Grumpy Sulky Oliver to interact with Curtis more.

 

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

I did read the final scene in 423 as romantic. Oliver thought Felicity was leaving him all alone in the Arrow Cave. But she didn't - and she was the only one who stayed by his side. AWWWW. And the camera framed the two of them together in the very last image.

AWWWWW.

The last 2 season finale's ended on an Olicity alone together scene. The last 3 season finale's have had a major Olicity scene as one of the final shots (Olicity beach scene in S2).

The last 3 Season Premiere's have had major Olicity moments very early on in the episode and Olicity played a major role in the episode.

201: Olicity jungle swing, QC Window Swing, "friend told me to find another way". While this isn't a major scene, i also adored the smile Oliver got when Felicity talked about Coconuts on the Island.

301: Oliver asks Felicity out, Olicity date, Olicity kiss and breakup.

401: Olicity breakfast, Olicity sex, Olicity engagement, Olicity talk over Felicity helping the team, Olicity moving into the loft.

In fact, Olicity scenes have been one of the major final scenes in each premiere.  

201: Boardroom 

301: hospital kiss/goodbye

401: loft scene

I fully expect that 501 and eventually 523 will continue this pattern. 

ETA: Gut reaction,  i think "Recruits" will be a Diggle heavy episode. It's has a military association and, in reality all guest stars/recurring characters are there to serve the Main Cast and character themes. 

If it's not a Diggle episode,  it could possibly be a Curtis episode but, I'm leaning towards Diggle until proven otherwise. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Midnight Lullaby]

36 minutes ago, quarks said:

 

Since most of the new guys - Wild Dog, Artemis, Vigilante - seem to be in fighting, not tech roles, I'm assuming that if they do get mentored/trained (who knows), my guess is that, just as in the past four seasons with Helena, Diggle, Roy, Thea, Barry and in that one scene with Laurel, Oliver will be doing most of the training/mentoring.

Curtis is the exception, but he seems to be doing the actual mentoring of Felicity, at least, not the other way around.  I liked pretty much all of the Oliver/Curtis scenes from last year, and since Curtis spent most of last season working with Felicity, it might be a lot of fun to change up that dynamic a bit and force Grumpy Sulky Oliver to interact with Curtis more.

 

Maybe Thea could mentor baby Canary/Artemis? 

[quarks]

44 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Maybe Thea could mentor baby Canary/Artemis? 

I'd love to see that, but since Oliver is the more popular character, my guess is he's more likely.

[statsgirl]

I'd like to see Thea in a mentoring role. It would give her something to do other than Malcolm's Daughter, Kidnap Victim, Love Interest or Justification for Oliver Doing Something Else Stupid..

15 hours ago, way2interested said:

I definitely agree. Likewise, if Oliver and Felicity have a discussion about what they think about the legacies that they are trying to uphold, GA/Mayor and Palmer Tech (even though ugh "Palmer Tech," but, hey, it's something Felicity cares about), I probably will see that as an Olicity moment.

I think it depends on how it's written.  If they're talking about their dreams and encouraging each other, chances are I'll see it as an Olicity moment. If they're trying to co-ordinate their daytime jobs with their night time ones (like when Felicity left Corto Maltese to get to work for Ray), I'll probably hate that too.

But I will be surprised if we get a talk about Felicity's legacy.  I think it will be more likely Laurel's legacy, which encourages the newbies, and Oliver's legacy in the light.  To be honest, I'll be shocked if we get anything on Felicity's legacy other than a brief mention of Havenrock which is a negative one.

13 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh and I forgot one of the biggest Olicity scenes in S2, the "you won't lose me scene" in 213...probably because of O/S.

Loved it when I saw it, have now come to hate that scene because after Felicity put her whole relationship (and her job) on the line for him, Oliver became Sara! Sara! Sara! for the next 7 episodes where Felicity got sidelined.  And then after what we all expected would be a super shipping Oliver return in 3x12, we got fighting, Felicity shut out of planning discussions and Ray/Felicity.  It got so that I didn't want to see Oliver and Felicity together in the same scene any more because their interactions sucked so much.

So while some interactions between Oliver and Felicity are Olicity, some are anti-Olicity and hit huge holes in the ship for me. I don't trust these writers one bit.

[kismet]

FS: Superhero Whisperer will be the legacy we see. It will be more FS helping masks achieve all that they can be, while she stays on comms. I don't think we'll see any of her legacy as her own person/superhero at all. Palmer Tech might get some screentime only to explain where F & C spend their days. But it will be brief whatever they do, unless of course it helps set up Mr.T and then it will get a lot of screentime.

I do think most of the Legacy talk in 501 is going to be LL-Centric. And honestly, I'm fine with that. She did die on the job last season, so it does make sense that we have some type of Newbie Worship Circle to her. Plus there is the whole statue thing, that would be awkward without some Legacy speech. And if the writers get it out of their system in 501, perhaps I won't have to listen to it for the next 22 episodes.

502 Recruits - I think is going to be about the Newbies. Perhaps they might include some Diggle with his military sidestory, but that will be an afterthought.

I do think we'll see some Olicity scenes, but I don't think they will amount to much. I also think that unlike the other 3 seasons, their mission is to bury Olicity for awhile. So it won't be as heartbreaking as the kiss in 301, but I think their "we're better off as friends" convo is what the Olicity moment in 501 is going to be. And hopefully it will be a nice moment and not an anger-inducing one.

[way2interested]

Just now, statsgirl said:

I think it depends on how it's written.  If they're talking about their dreams and encouraging each other, chances are I'll see it as an Olicity moment. If they're trying to co-ordinate their daytime jobs with their night time ones (like when Felicity left Corto Maltese to get to work for Ray), I'll probably hate that too.

But I will be surprised if we get a talk about Felicity's legacy.  I think it will be more likely Laurel's legacy, which encourages the newbies, and Oliver's legacy in the light.  To be honest, I'll be shocked if we get anything on Felicity's legacy other than a brief mention of Havenrock which is a negative one.

Loved it when I saw it, have now come to hate that scene because after Felicity put her whole relationship (and her job) on the line for him, Oliver became Sara! Sara! Sara! for the next 7 episodes where Felicity got sidelined.  And then after what we all expected would be a super shipping Oliver return in 3x12, we got fighting, Felicity shut out of planning discussions and Ray/Felicity.  It got so that I didn't want to see Oliver and Felicity together in the same scene any more because their interactions sucked so much.

So while some interactions between Oliver and Felicity are Olicity, some are anti-Olicity and hit huge holes in the ship for me. I don't trust these writers one bit.

The first one is the one I see as happening and the one I was describing, which is why I said I will "probably" like it. Sure, it can be the second one you mentioned, but with the combinations of being the premiere where Oliver and Felicity usually have some moments together, Oliver and Felicity being in a spot more akin to 420/423 rather than 3b, the idea that legacies might be the theme of the season (or at least the theme of 501) so a deep discussion between them about it is warranted, I just think that it's likely to get at least one meaningful moment between them. My thing is that most interactions I've seen between just Oliver and Felicity I have seen as Olicity, so while some are kind of anti-Olicity, I've seen way more of them be actually positive, so a modicum of trust is still with me on that.

Laurel's legacy is definitely going to be mentioned, hence the statue, because I think it might be a partial catalyst for Oliver in s5 along with the latter episodes of 4b. It's kind of irritating, because it is over-glorifying Laurel, but I do give Arrow credit for carrying over an event/death over from a season, kind of like how they did with Tommy's death as a catalyst for the way Oliver did things in s2. Oliver's legacy is definitely going to be important because it was explicitly mentioned in the plot for s5, but, if legacy also ends up being a minor theme for s5, then I would expect it to affect the main three to some extent, kind of like one of the minor themes of family for s4 affected Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity.

Felicity's mentioned Palmer Tech being "Ray's legacy," so I can picture her possibly talking about taking it on and supporting it/taking it back or trying to take it back as a way to create her own legacy in response to Havenrock. Heck, if they do talk about Felicity's legacy being Havenrock I would even like that because it would be both actually talking about Havenrock and be giving something for Felicity to hypothetically work towards overcoming for the season. Diggle is kind of more of a mystery to me, but I can see him thinking about legacy when it comes to where he wants to go next and how he wants to live his life for the future while taking "legacy" as a term for the future of his family, whether it be remaining a soldier or returning as a hero who killed his own brother.

[Sunshine]

Well, part of Oliver & the team's legacy is going to give rise to Tobias Church if I'm interpreting SA's remarks correctly.

[Morrigan2575]

24 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

Well, part of Oliver & the team's legacy is going to give rise to Tobias Church if I'm interpreting SA's remarks correctly.

Yes, i believe that is correct 

[statsgirl]

I think the easiest characters to talk about their legacy will be Oliver, who has a combined legacy of Green Arrow and now mayor, and Diggle, who should be dealing with the fallout from Andy's death as well as his own role in life (Am I a solder?  Am I a vigilante?  Who should Sara's father be?)

And of course Laurel's legacy, which will be the statue and possibly the newbies although Wild Dog sounds like he's been in the biz for a while (according to spoilers, Oliver will be mentoring him).  Laurel dies and she gets a statue, Ray "died" and he got the city named after him.  Poor Tommy and Moira, who get nothing.

I really hope no one talks about Malcolm's legacy.  Poor Thea hasn't had a chance to have enough of a storyline to get a legacy yet.

I hope Felicity's legacy isn't to make Palmer Tech great.  Since we know Ray is alive, I don't think he should have any more legacy than Star City, and Felicity needs something better than to prop him up.  I also don't want her to become a kind of glorified den mother to all the new fighters.  I know this show is about masks and costumes fighting  but after four seasons, I want more than just fight scenes and Villains.

I'm keeping my expectations low and planning for 5A to be about all the new vigilantes coming up.  This show couldn't handle four masks, how will it handle another four (including Curtis) new ones?

[AyChihuahua]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Loved it when I saw it, have now come to hate that scene because after Felicity put her whole relationship (and her job) on the line for him, Oliver became Sara! Sara! Sara! for the next 7 episodes where Felicity got sidelined. 

Seriously, that's an Olicity scene in the sense of the writers being total dicks. It was pretty much "Thanks for risking everything to be honest with me. You'll never lose me.......Kthxbye!"

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Wild Dog sounds like he's been in the biz for a while (according to spoilers, Oliver will be mentoring him).  

Is this an actual show spoiler or something from the comics? Why do I have such a hard time remembering these things?

So definitely crazies of the week. Possibly Anarky comes back? Does anyone have a clue about the hashtag, what could it mean?

[Morrigan2575]

8 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Is this an actual show spoiler or something from the comics? Why do I have such a hard time remembering these things?

I have no idea what that's in reference too. We know from casting botices that WildDog is reckless, ex-Marine turned vigilante. I think most spec is that Wild Dog took to Vigilantism over the summer. I'm not aware of a spoiler about Oliver mentioning him or that he's been doing it for awhile. 

[statsgirl]

The Wild Dog info came from tv echo's great summary of what we know so far:
 

Quote

 

On 7/14/2016 at 10:32 AM, tv echo said:

DC Comics character Wild Dog will appear in multiple episodes, starting with the season premiere, in S5.  He will be played by Rick Gonzalez.  Wild Dog is a new vigilante in Star City whose reckless and cocksure nature prompts Green Arrow (Stephen Amell) to take him under his wing.  (Jun. 15, 2016 EW article, page 38 of Spoilers thread)

 

I got the impression that he wasn't new to vigilantism, just new to Star City.

From the Hopes and Fear thread:

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

Well, Dettiot reported that SA told her that Felicity has a boyfriend when the season opens. So, there's that.

I really hope this was just SA trolling.

If not, it could be someone we never see.  But if it is, assuming she's not dating Tobias Church because she misses Diggle so much, then it's probably either Wild Dog, the ex-marine, The Vigilante/ Adam Chase who took over Laurel's job (cue the Felicity/Laurel fanfic) or Detective Malone, double ew because Donna is still dating Quentin.

All of those feel like a disaster waiting to happen, not the least of which are going to be the jabs that while Oliver has only loved Felicity for more than two years, Fickle Felicity keeps moving on to other men so fast.

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I really hope this was just SA trolling.

If not, it could be someone we never see.  But if it is, assuming she's not dating Tobias Church because she misses Diggle so much, then it's probably either Wild Dog, the ex-marine, The Vigilante/ Adam Chase who took over Laurel's job (cue the Felicity/Laurel fanfic) or Detective Malone, double ew because Donna is still dating Quentin.

All of those feel like a disaster waiting to happen, not the least of which are going to be the jabs that while Oliver has only loved Felicity for more than two years, Fickle Felicity keeps moving on to other men so fast.

I don't think he's trolling. My spec: she dates either the cop or the DA. I'd prefer the DA, as the cop seems puppy-ish, cute but not hot, and Ray redux. Also, I think Oliver is going to date the reporter, somewhat in response to Felicity dating (not retaliation, just as a result of). I'd be happy to be wrong. I think it's a shitty writing choice on both ends, but that has never stopped the writers before.

[Morrigan2575]

21 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

The Wild Dog info came from tv echo's great summary of what we know so far:

I thought your post said "mentioning" him, not "mentoring"...time to get the eyes checked. Yes, Wild Dog is going to be mentored by Oliver (to some extent).  However, I think it's more likely that Wild Dog is new to Vigilantism, most likely came back from the Military right before/after Darhk's attack and decided to pick up the Vigilante slack while TA was MIA. I think they're doing a S2/Roy retread 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

betcha they'll do the s2 roy rethread right down to Thea dating Wild Dog.

[AyChihuahua]

6 minutes ago, kismet said:

betcha they'll do the s2 roy rethread right down to Thea dating Wild Dog.

S1. They started dating in S1, and everybody involved in production keeps banging the S1 drum. (I am actually mildly interested in Wild Dog, bc I like the actor. Although I would love to have my baby Roy back as a regular.)

[kismet]

Thanks @AyChihuahua! Sometimes I forget s1 Thea. I only remember the annoying teenager. When they didn't kill her in the finale,  I learned to try to like her. luckily she has gotten better. 

[way2interested]

50 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I don't think he's trolling. My spec: she dates either the cop or the DA. I'd prefer the DA, as the cop seems puppy-ish, cute but not hot, and Ray redux. 

But then wouldn't the DA's auditions be with EBR? TVLine kind of shot down the DA being Felicity's love interest idea since none of his audition sides even involved Felicity. Sure they might have changed their minds, but they seemed to be more doubling down on chemistry tests since Oliver/Laurel, unless they really don't care at this point. From that the it would seem to be either cop or Mr. Offscreen.