Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Angel12d]

So...O/F break up and obviously won't share many (if any) scenes, thus removing a dynamic I really enjoy. Plus there are a few Laurel-heavy episodes coming up, including Lance family flashbacks. Um. No thanks. They can keep it.

 

I guess this is the part of the season where I check out until the end. 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Angel12d

[bijoux]

I just had a thought. What if the speech at the end of next episode is delived by IslandOliver?

[lemotomato]

So...O/F break up and obviously won't share many (if any) scenes, thus removing a dynamic I really enjoy. Plus there are a few Laurel-heavy episodes coming up, including Lance family flashbacks. Um. No thanks. They can keep it.

I guess this is the part of the season where I check out until the end.

Ever since season 2, I've needed to take a break from the show and related social media (with exception of this board) around episodes 13-19 because everything on the show goes to shit. At least this year the real pain doesn't start until 15, so... progress?

[Angel12d]

Ever since season 2, I've needed to take a break from the show and related social media (with exception of this board) around episodes 13-19 because everything on the show goes to shit. At least this year the real pain doesn't start until 15, so... progress?

 

Yeah, I did the same last year. Didn't watch episodes 315-319 live. It's just too much hassle to watch a show that features nothing I enjoy and too much of characters I detest. What's the point? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited February 18, 2016 by Angel12d

[Betweenthisandthat]

I'm not finding much to look forward to in the coming weeks, but the possibility of Laurel being in the grave is fun. Confetti! It's a Parade! Fun.

 

Laurel in the grave is when I finally give up on this show without looking back.  I was going to watch the winter premiere, but opted out of it, and I honestly haven't regretted it.  I do check up once and awhile to see spoilers, just in case there's anything enticing that would tempt me, but I can't say I trust the show when it comes to Laurel storylines, and that plus the hate for the character, which I will never really understand and hope never to encounter something like it again, has tainted the show for me.  So I'm going to assume she's in the grave, because I don't expect anything more from this show than that kind of crap.  And it's not like the storylines for any other character look all the good to me either.  I don't really care for Olicity, and I have tried, and if I did, that secret child nonsense would turn me off.  I'm not an Oliver fan anymore, although I adored him in the first season, so that makes watching even more difficult.  The first season had a vision of what Arrow was about and who he was fighting and that's gone.  He had a purpose, albeit a misguided one, and I don't really get what the show is about now.  But at the very least, if Laurel's gone, I can give up reading spoilers and use that time for something better!  

Edited February 18, 2016 by Betweenthisandthat

[Mrs. de Winter]

If the speech is by island Oliver I assume most people will just change the channel 3 minutes earlier than they usually do since the island is a whole lot of who cares. 

 

None of these spoilers are enticing me to watch the show anymore.  Didn't WM say we would get some idea of where everyone is before the big death happens before the episode where the death occurs?  Am I remembering that wrong or did they just decide not to do it? 

[Velocity23]

Charlotte is coming back for 4x19? The funeral?

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/700442168729546753

[Starfish35]

Diggle being in the grave is what would make me finally give up on the show. I could not deal with that.

[Chaser]

Well, even with all these spoilers, I STILL think it'll be Quentin, but there's also a small chance it'll be Laurel. They won't kill Diggle, and they can't kill any supporting characters if they want to follow through with their promise at the beginning of the season to have a death that'll stick and mean something. So it's really between Quentin and Laurel, but evidence for Laurel is piling up.

If the death episode is 4x18, I think the lack of CR tips the scales towards Laurel. Now Lance could still die and Donna could come back for the funeral, but I would think they would want to really twist the knife in with happy in love Quentin meeting a brutal end.

 

If the speech is by island Oliver I assume most people will just change the channel 3 minutes earlier than they usually do since the island is a whole lot of who cares. 

 

None of these spoilers are enticing me to watch the show anymore.  Didn't WM say we would get some idea of where everyone is before the big death happens before the episode where the death occurs?  Am I remembering that wrong or did they just decide not to do it? 

I remember her saying something like that.

Charlotte is coming back for 4x19? The funeral?

https://twitter.com/charlotteross/status/700442168729546753

Hah! Look at that timing.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Chaser

[Angel12d]

I think 418 is still too early for the death tbh. I'd say at best there might be a death cliffhanger in 418 and then the death happens in 419. But I really don't care anymore. I only care if they kill Diggle and then I'm out for sure. Trust this show to kill the good characters and keep the useless ones.

[wonderwall]

Hah! Look at that timing.

Donna is going to be there to comfort her man. 

 

lmfao

[Chaser]

I have a hard time believing anyone would look at Diggle and The Lances and decide to go with Diggle. I can't even compute that scenario.

 

Donna is going to be there to comfort her man. 

 

lmfao

Yep. Lol

[wonderwall]

I have a hard time believing anyone would look at Diggle and The Lances and decide to go with Diggle. I can't even compute that scenario.

 

Yep. Lol

 

You are my favorite now :). I love you. 

[apinknightmare]

Hopefully they name 4x19 "REST IN PEACE" or something like that so we know for sure, haha.

[Chaser]

Hopefully they name 4x19 "REST IN PEACE" or something like that so we know for sure, haha.

You joke but SINS OF THE FATHER

[wonderwall]

Hopefully they name 4x19 "REST IN PEACE" or something like that so we know for sure, haha.

Ohh maybe it'd be called Post Mortem 

[Angel12d]

Hopefully they name 4x19 "REST IN PEACE" or something like that so we know for sure, haha.

 

It'll probably have something with GRAVE in the title. GRAVE ENCOUNTERS. GRAVE REASONS. GRAVE SINS. 

 

LMAO.

[Starfish35]

I will be surprised if 11:59, with the "death train" allusions of that title, is not the death episode. I wasn't expecting it so early either, but I'm glad, because we can finally get it over with one way or the other.

[Carrie Ann]

If it's Lance, I'm calling End of Watch.

[apinknightmare]

It'll probably have something with GRAVE in the title. GRAVE ENCOUNTERS. GRAVE REASONS. GRAVE SINS. 

 

LMAO.

 

GRAVE PROMISES

 

GRAVE SECRETS

Edited February 18, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Starfish35]

Yeah, End of Watch would give it away. If that's it, we might get a blanked out title page.

We might anyway, actually.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, End of Watch would give it away. If that's it, we might get a blanked out title page.

We might anyway, actually.

 

Yeah, I think we will too. Hopefully MG will give us the beginning letter to figure it out, like with Public Enemy. 

[Chaser]

Yeah, I think we will too. Hopefully MG will give us the beginning letter to figure it out, like with Public Enemy. 

And then when a million people guess correctly he will pretend he never saw it.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Chaser

[wonderwall]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

[apinknightmare]

And then when a million people guess correctly he will pretend he never saw it.

 

He tweeted asking people to guess, and did confirm when someone guessed the title. 

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

 

It's how cops (and other law enforcement/military) signal the end of a shift. 

[Carrie Ann]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

 

It's a phrase sometimes used in police funerals, as part of a last call to the officer.

[Chaser]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

If a law enforcement officer dies in the line of duty, the date of death is referred to as his end of watch.

[bijoux]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

 

All I've got is, And now his watch is over, from Game of Thrones for the fallen from the Night's Watch. They're more border police, but there's a connection there.

[Chaser]

He tweeted asking people to guess, and did confirm when someone guessed the title. 

 

It's how cops (and other law enforcement/military) signal the end of a shift. 

I could have sworn he never confirmed, he just released the episode title.

[Morrigan2575]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

It's a term used for an Officer killed in the line of duty

[wonderwall]

Oh! I didn't know that! Thanks @apinknightmare, @Carrie Ann, @Chaser, @bijoux (you tried :)), @Morrigan2575

Edited February 18, 2016 by wonderwall

[bijoux]

Oh! I didn't know that! Thanks @apinknightmare, @Carrie Ann, @Chaser, @bijoux (you tried :)), @Morrigan2575

 

Oh, God. I'm that klutzy kid who gets a trophy for effort.

[apinknightmare]

I could have sworn he never confirmed, he just released the episode title.

 

He definitely did, because I tweeted my response to him and he @ replied that I was the first one who guessed it (although I'm guessing my response was just the first one he saw).

[wonderwall]

Oh, God. I'm that klutzy kid who gets a trophy for effort.

 

We still love you :p

[nksarmi]

Two weeks hiatus.

I find completely reasonable breaking up with someone who lied and went behind your back for months and would have married you and made you a step mom without your knowledge. Oliver was going to marry her and have a second family in CC. That's gross.

I can see Felicity sympathizing with his reasons (even if I, using common sense, can't) because the writers have to justify themselves but to stay with someone who broke your trust like that? And didn't trust you? I don't think it's the type of relationship Felicity wants for herself. It seems to me she has a healthy dose of self respect and isn't afraid to react when she feels betrayed. (Like with her dad.)

 

Well Felicity is already in a relationship with someone who lied to her and didn't trust her with a secret far more severe than a secret son who he just found out about a few months ago.  And really, Felicity won't be William's step-mom because for that to happen, Oliver would have to be his dad, and truth be told - he is still only just the sperm donor who made the boy. 

 

So while I do think it's bad that Oliver hasn't told Felicity - I take more issue with the fact that it happens to be stupid.  And for some reason, I have a harder time with stupid lies than smart ones.  I think given all of Felicity's attempt to get Donna to be understanding about Lance's lies - Felicity probably feels the same way.  BUT I still do not get the sense that Felicity will dump Oliver just for being stupid and keeping this secret from her.  It just doesn't seem to be how they are writing this - sure, they could swerve next episode - but I don't feel an "organic" build up to it.

 

And while I know things are cumulative - I still think if Felicity can get over the betrayal of last season (which was HUGE) - she'd get over this pretty quick.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Wait.. Why would it be Lance if it's End of Watch? I'm a bit slow today and whenever any of the Lances are on screen I tend to tune out lmao

 

It's a phrase commonly associated with police, could just mean going off-duty, but I read more often in police obits.

 

Ooops, or what everybody else said above. I should refresh the page before responding, LOL!

Edited February 18, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Chaser]

It's a phrase sometimes used in police funerals, as part of a last call to the officer.

Last Call would also work. Those are gut wrenching to listen too.

 

However, given he is an alcoholic, perhaps it wouldn't be the most sensitive choice.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well Felicity is already in a relationship with someone who lied to her and didn't trust her with a secret far more severe than a secret son who he just found out about a few months ago.  And really, Felicity won't be William's step-mom because for that to happen, Oliver would have to be his dad, and truth be told - he is still only just the sperm donor who made the boy. 

 

So while I do think it's bad that Oliver hasn't told Felicity - I take more issue with the fact that it happens to be stupid.  And for some reason, I have a harder time with stupid lies than smart ones.  I think given all of Felicity's attempt to get Donna to be understanding about Lance's lies - Felicity probably feels the same way.  BUT I still do not get the sense that Felicity will dump Oliver just for being stupid and keeping this secret from her.  It just doesn't seem to be how they are writing this - sure, they could swerve next episode - but I don't feel an "organic" build up to it.

 

And while I know things are cumulative - I still think if Felicity can get over the betrayal of last season (which was HUGE) - she'd get over this pretty quick.

Last year Dig and Felicity got mad but justified him because it was his stupid, self sacrificing plan to save everyone. This year he has been going behind her back for months while in a relationship with her and after asking her to marry him. The betrayal is personal.

Also Oliver might not have told the kid he is his dad but if something were to happen to BM he would step in taking his responsibilities and if he was married to Felicity he would make her a step mom.

Also we had one canon reaction in 4x08 where Felicity got mad after Oliver didn't tell her the truth. I don't see how not telling her for a longer time and actively going behind her back would make her more understanding.

We also saw her reaction to her dad betraying her and it wasn't understanding or forgiving. Her speeches this episode weren't in line with her behavior so far, not the other way around.

And we know what Stephen said about 15, we have the FF in the limo, Wendy that insisted on Felicity not having a ring..

[nksarmi]

Ok in all seriousness - because I haven't read all the spoilers - why do we think there is for sure a break up?  Has it been confirmed that they will definitely split?  Have set photos indicated it?

 

Because between the last episode and the preview scene for when Felicity finds out - I don't see her dumping him in 4x15.  I just flat out cannot imagine them having her dump him in the exact same episode where they rescue his son.  I know this entire board favors Felicity and thinks Oliver is dead wrong - and I agree.  But I still don't think a break up framed right after Oliver just saves his son from being kidnapped by Darhk would paint Felicity in a good light. 

 

If they are breaking up - I don't think it's in the next episode.

 

ETA: SA said things will get hard for "olicity" fans, but in my book - that doesn't mean break up. They were never officially together last season and he made comments about when fans would be happy and when they wouldn't.  Heck, there were "happy olicity" moments when she was still sleeping with Ray.

 

I think WM said Felicity not wearing her ring was significant and it said something about the "state of their relationship" but that also doesn't mean break up AND - more importantly, it doesn't mean Felicity dumps him over the kid secret.  Although, IF she dumps him because Malcolm, Thea, and Barry knew and he STILL kept it a secret from her - I wouldn't blame her one bit. But I don't even think that's where they are going.

 

Stephen did say that whatever went wrong with him and Felicity would be because of something he did.  I know people here think it's the LIE.  But I think it's something more.  I think it's related to Malcolm and the death and the fact that Felicity is demanding that Oliver kill "him."

Edited February 18, 2016 by nksarmi

[apinknightmare]

Ok in all seriousness - because I haven't read all the spoilers - why do we think there is for sure a break up?  Has it been confirmed that they will definitely split?  Have set photos indicated it?

 

Because between the last episode and the preview scene for when Felicity finds out - I don't see her dumping him in 4x15.  I just flat out cannot imagine them having her dump him in the exact same episode where they rescue his son.  I know this entire board favors Felicity and thinks Oliver is dead wrong - and I agree.  But I still don't think a break up framed right after Oliver just saves his son from being kidnapped by Darhk would paint Felicity in a good light. 

 

If they are breaking up - I don't think it's in the next episode.

 

At the Dallas Fan Days this past weekend, SA apologized to an Olicity fan for what's coming up in the show, and we know that there's a scene at the end of 4x15 (per SA - can't remember when he said it) that shippers won't be happy about. She's not wearing her ring in the flash forward - I think it's safe to guess that they break up at the end of the next ep.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Stephen at the last con apologized for what was about to happen with Oliver and Felicity, said there is going to be a very emotional scene in 15 Olicity fans won't like and to describe 15 he used the word "ring".

But I don't understand why you think it would make Felicity look bad. She will obviously put her needs to discuss Oliver's lie aside because they need to save his kid, she will help them make sure he gets home safe, so why can't she call quits at the end of the episode after they make sure the kid is fine and back with his mom?

[AyChihuahua]

But I don't understand why you think it would make Felicity look bad. She will obviously put her needs to discuss Oliver's lie aside because they need to save his kid, she will help them make sure he gets home safe, so why can't she call quits at the end of the episode after they make sure the kid is fine and back with his mom?

She puts aside her personal feelings of INTENSE betrayal to focus on helping safely retrieve her lying fiance's kid, waiting until everything is over and the dumb kid is safe to break up with him, and somehow SHE looks like the bad guy?

 

Yeah, I'm with you, that makes zero sense.

[nksarmi]

Well buckle up then because I have a felling if they have Felicity dump Oliver in the same episode where he has to fight Darhk to get his son back - she's going to look like the bad guy to most people.  From my observation - outside of this board, while "olicity is loved" - people are brutal to Felicity whenever she hurts Oliver. This applied to her dating Ray.  It applies to every time she gets pissed at Oliver.  So yea, I was kind of hoping if they did the break up - it would be unquestionably viewed as Oliver's fault.

 

For people who only casually follow the show - it doesn't really look like Oliver has been lying for months.  We were even sure if that throw away line about going to and from Central City referred to the Hawks episode or something more recent.  Because we haven't been SHOWN Oliver seeing William or Oliver popping in after being "missing" all day or anything like that - on the show, it looks like Oliver saw his ex with a kid, did some simple math, had Barry run some DNA, and figured out he had a kid.  Promised BM not to tell anyone and saw the kid one time. That's it. That's all we've SEEN.

 

Add in having Thea talk about how important it is for him to keep his promise to baby momma and telling him and the audience that Oliver is doing the right thing.  Then add in Felicity telling Donna that sometimes you have to forgive a lie.  Then add in the emotional distress Oliver is going to feel because his kid has been kidnapped and he has to get him back..... 

 

Yea Felicity is going to look like the bad guy if she dumps him right after all that.  I'm sorry, but get ready for some series Felicity slamming if that's how it goes down.

She puts aside her personal feelings of INTENSE betrayal to focus on helping safely retrieve her lying fiance's kid, waiting until everything is over and the dumb kid is safe to break up with him, and somehow SHE looks like the bad guy?

 

Yeah, I'm with you, that makes zero sense.

 

Like I said - think about what the show has SHOWN and TOLD the audience.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe everyone will be on Felicity's side.  But given some of the comments I have seen about her before - I seriously, seriously doubt it.

[apinknightmare]

I think it might be questionable if she ditched him in the middle of the ep and refused to help him find his son, but if she does it after the kid is home safe then I don't really see what the issue is. I mean, I know people will find reasons to hate on her anyway, but there isn't anything bad about that timing IMO.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I really don't care what idiots think. Haters always gonna hate.

[lemotomato]

For people who only casually follow the show - it doesn't really look like Oliver has been lying for months.  We were even sure if that throw away line about going to and from Central City referred to the Hawks episode or something more recent.  Because we haven't been SHOWN Oliver seeing William or Oliver popping in after being "missing" all day or anything like that - on the show, it looks like Oliver saw his ex with a kid, did some simple math, had Barry run some DNA, and figured out he had a kid.  Promised BM not to tell anyone and saw the kid one time. That's it. That's all we've SEEN.

 

Yea Felicity is going to look like the bad guy if she dumps him right after all that.  I'm sorry, but get ready for some series Felicity slamming if that's how it goes down.

I disagree about the viewer perception about the lie. Look at the professional reviewers and most of them comment on how stupid the lie is, and how ridiculous it was for Thea to support the lie. Thea's not exactly one of the more popular characters on the show either.

 

I honestly don't think the EPs and writers care about how the audience will react to the breakup. And besides, episode 14 was filmed before the winter break; episode 15 was written by then, so it's too late for them to change anything anyway. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[Angel12d]

It pains me to admit but I agree to an extent. I do think they've set it up for Felicity to be the bad guy in all of this, simply because they've got Thea supporting and enabling Oliver's lie. Critics reviews aside, already I've seen comments saying Thea was being mature finally and 'looking at the bigger picture' because Oliver was only lying to ensure he had a relationship with his son. And also that Felicity should understand and support him for the same reasons. So it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Felicity got a lot of hate for breaking up with him in 415.

 

I don't agree, of course. I think as long as she waits until William is safe and unharmed, she can't be faulted for not accepting being lied to for months. But I can't say I'm looking forward to the reception of the break-up, especially as a Felicity fan. It sucks because she hasn't even done anything wrong.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Angel12d

[nksarmi]

Yea I guess I care too much when it comes to Felicity because I'm ok if she does break up with him.  She has given him so many chances.  But I really wanted it to be so very clear that it was Oliver's fault - like no taking sides - everyone is just looking at Oliver like he's a moron.  I don't like that anyone - even Thea - justified his lie. 

 

I also don't like that they have shown us episode after episode of lovey / dovey everything is perfect olicity prior to this.  It's almost going to feel like whiplash if she dumps him hard at the end of 15.  I'm kind of hoping it's just a "Oliver you have a son - Darhk is gunning for you - we shouldn't be rushing into this" kind of thing with the wedding.  But I've always wanted it to be a "take some time to think" break rather than a "break up."

[Angel12d]

I'm actually starting to wonder if we'll get an actual vocalized break-up at all. I think Felicity will throw herself into helping find William and we won't know how she feels for all of the episode. Oliver will return to the loft at the end and the ring will just be sitting there and that will say everything. 

[apinknightmare]

It pains me to admit but I agree to an extent. I do think they've set it up for Felicity to be the bad guy in all of this, simply because they've got Thea supporting and enabling Oliver's lie. Critics reviews aside, already I've seen comments saying Thea was being mature finally and 'looking at the bigger picture' because Oliver was only lying to ensure he had a relationship with his son. And also that Felicity should understand and support him for the same reasons. So it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Felicity got a lot of hate for breaking up with him in 415.

 

I don't agree, of course. I think as long as she waits until William is safe and unharmed, she can't be faulted for not accepting being lied to for months. But I can't say I'm looking forward to the reception of the break-up, especially as a Felicity fan. It sucks because she hasn't even done anything wrong.

 

I think the writers did her dirty in this past episode too, with her support of the Donna/Quentin thing, and talking to Donna about trusting Quentin's intentions. I know they're different situations, but if I didn't know better, I would've thought they were setting her up to be immediately forgiving of the lie despite the minefield of anvils about secrets and whatnot that rained down last night. Unless the writers are going to throw us an idiotic curveball and have Oliver do something additionally stupid that compounds it.