S11.E04: Outlaw

[RollTheHardSix]

The episode was meh, but what instantly bothered me was how they got the old partner in jail to cooperate.

 

If I was about to go down for four murders and rapes (?) and they told me that I would get a few years off my sentence if I cooperated now, I think my answer would've been more along the lines of: "Oh, so I'll only have to do 300 years instead of 400? Awesome!" And that would already be a major discount!

 

There was no way that guy was ever getting out if convicted so their incentives were BS. What kind of "leniency" was he going to get for four murders and rapes?! They should've offered him jail privileges, serving his time at a special kind of jail or something more realistic like that. But he just rolled over and gave it all up. Without a lawyer. That was so easy, you certainly wouldn't have needed an FBI elite team to talk to him, any local deputy could've done it.

Edited October 26, 2015 by RollTheHardSix

[Bookish Jen]

at the risk of sounding 15...... *yummy*!! in high def, that close up was so detailed you could actually see Matthew's contact lenses on his eyes.  Unfortunately, it was so close up, it made for a crappy screen capture, too much of his head was cut off...Oh well, I'll take it!

ReidFan, there is something about a man with hazel or brown eyes that just gets to me. Maybe I like the contrast with my light blue eyes. And my bday is exactly one week before Matthew's. Yes, you may touch my hem. Snerk.

 

Speaking of eyes. I rolled mine when they showed the BAU at the funeral, too. Sure, the BAU are good and compassionate people but this scene was just so "Touched by an Angel."

[jaytee1812]

I'm tired of seeing Garcia's cleavage week after week, too. Besides being unprofessional, it doesn't go with her ridiculous hair ornaments.

If you can see Garcia's cleavage you're looking too hard.

I don't think people realise how offensive comments like that are. Is Kirsten Vangess suppose to go and get surgery so other people, usually men and misogynist women, have their ideals met.

[Droogie]

If you can see Garcia's cleavage you're looking too hard.

I don't think people realise how offensive comments like that are. Is Kirsten Vangess suppose to go and get surgery so other people, usually men and misogynist women, have their ideals met.

Are you kidding??

No one is asking her to suddenly become small-breasted, but she needs to seriously cover it up at the office.

[jaytee1812]

Are you kidding??

No one is asking her to suddenly become small-breasted, but she needs to seriously cover it up at the office.

They are covered.

Yes you are asking her to conform to an ideal she can't meet without surgery. Only big breasted women like KV get these kind of comments. They are never made about ideal sized women like AJC or PB.

Both women in the main cast don't meet the way society expects women to look.

[Bookish Jen]

Are you kidding??

No one is asking her to suddenly become small-breasted, but she needs to seriously cover it up at the office.

This! I'm not hugely stacked but even I show some cleavage if I wear a very low-cut top. It's not breast size; it's the outifts.

 

And to give equal time, it would be very unprofessional if Morgan wore a shirt unbuttoned to his navel to show off his six-pack.

[Droogie]

They are covered.

Yes you are asking her to conform to an ideal she can't meet without surgery. Only big breasted women like KV get these kind of comments. They are never made about ideal sized women like AJC or PB.

Both women in the main cast don't meet the way society expects women to look.

http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_505522348_0_1200_10000_-1_/penelope-20garcia.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uUIF-S4fZns/TqMUotXu56I/AAAAAAAABhc/csrN463Wfn8/s1600/penelope.png

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23000000/4x11-Normal-penelope-garcia-23083985-960-540.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/0b3c7261b02fc150b38620fd233e5fc1/tumblr_n1mxreojAN1s3nbfpo1_500.png

This is about ten seconds of googling. Cover the girls, Penelope. No one is suggesting Garcia isn't sexy or that big breasts aren't sexy or don't have their place. But sorry, one burden of the big-chested girl is that she has cleavage where her flatter-chested counterpart may not. It isn't appropriate in the workplace, and I guaran-dang-tee that if she worked for the real FBI, she would've been sent home to change, a long time ago.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Droogie

[jaytee1812]

http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_505522348_0_1200_10000_-1_/penelope-20garcia.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uUIF-S4fZns/TqMUotXu56I/AAAAAAAABhc/csrN463Wfn8/s1600/penelope.pnghttp://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23000000/4x11-Normal-penelope-garcia-23083985-960-540.jpghttp://41.media.tumblr.com/0b3c7261b02fc150b38620fd233e5fc1/tumblr_n1mxreojAN1s3nbfpo1_500.png

This is about ten seconds of googling. Cover the girls, Penelope. No one is suggesting Garcia isn't sexy or that big breasts aren't sexy or don't have their place. But sorry, one burden of the big-chested girl is that she has cleavage where her flatter-chested counterpart may not. It isn't appropriate in the workplace, and I guaran-dang-tee that if she worked for the real FBI, she would've been sent home to change, a long time ago.

No the problem is people suggesting big breasts are only sexual. It's judging a women by how she looks, and it's appalling.

And I'm pretty sure Morgan and Reid have been working on only their looks for years.

[Droogie]

No, I get it. But it's how society functions. And the fact is, Garcia's cleavage is distracting. Baring it like she does is inappropriate and, frankly, inconsiderate. Another stereotype is that a black man is well-endowed below the belt. What if Morgan decided he should come to work on a hot day wearing only a banana hammock? After all, isn't he worth more than what's between his legs? Is it everyone else's fault they can't concentrate when he's dressed like that?

There are unfair judgments, and then there is propriety. I think Garcia's attire violates what is proper in the workplace, regardless of her size or the size of her rack.

[SSAHotchner]

No the problem is people suggesting big breasts are only sexual. It's judging a women by how she looks, and it's appalling.

And I'm pretty sure Morgan and Reid have been working on only their looks for years.

I didn't mention her size at all, just that her (bare) cleavage is often exposed and it is inappropriate for most work environments. I am very large breasted and I have to make sure that mine are covered. This means I can't always wear what is fashionable because it would be too revealing on me. She dresses inappropriately for the FBI whether it's exposing her cleavage or something silly and immature like wearing kitty ears. I don't care how Kirsten dresses, but Garcia can be quirky without exposing her breasts or dressing like an adolescent. 

[normasm]

Garcia is supposed to be a federal employee in a professional office. Show me an office where it is considered OK to have very low-cut or very tight or see-through clothing that reveals body contours. We are not talking about an actress with cleavage showing off her chest; she is playing a character that is supposed to reflect reality, which, in the workplace, is not lowcut, pushup decolletage. In a federal office, she wouldn't be allowed to wear the shoes she wears, tottering around in open-toed stacks. And it's not the size of her breasts; I've seen Prentiss and JJ wear what I thought were too-low-cut blouses on occasion, but it hasn't been every single time on camera.

 

Garcia is a caricature, and a distracting one, if we are to seriously consider the BAU to be a professional place.

[normasm]

I love looking at beautiful women of all sizes, as well as beautiful men (of all sizes!). I also like people who are atypically beautiful, or even what some might consider ugly. Kirsten's breasts and legs certainly don't offend me. I simply find it totally unrealistic and distracting for the character she plays. Period.

[Treehugger]

I just watched this episode tonight and was happy to (1) see more of Reid and (2) recognize the actress who played the unsub's baby mama, Emily Rios who was Adriana Mendez from The Bridge.  Now The Bridge was a show that used its southwest United States and Mexico scenery to perfect advantage.

[needschocolate]

Slowly catching up with this season....

 

This show is becoming so stereotypical.  Last week with the overweight, unattractive woman being so love deprived that she becomes a delusional mass murderer.  This week with long-haired unsub named Lester is the the sadistic rapist who only cares about drugs and sex and the short haired, good looking unsub named Duke, who want to become a family man and has too much heart to kill a father because a son needs his father.  No offense to any Lesters or Dukes out there, but why can't the hairy, disheveled guy be Duke and the clean-cut guy be Lester? Why can't the hairy guy be the family man and the good looking one be the drug addict?

 

I actually agree with you on this Qwerty---well not the part about not finding Reid attractive, of course!---but the part about how they try to 'show' his genius with special effects and quirky closeups instead of actually writing his dialogue that way.  Even with this episode, there wasn't anything in his conclusion that couldn't have been thought of by any of the others.  To me, it was just more evidence that they don't understand him at all.  

 

I get the feeling that the writers aren't smart enough to write dialogue that would show his genius.

 

Well, last night I didn't think this one was awful, but I had taken my Ambien before the show started, so I must have been a bit out of it. Re-watched while my sister is here doing her laundry today, and it just felt off. As everyone said, too much unsub, and could the acting get any worse? My favorite moment was in the prison when Hotch told the prisoner to shut up. But too much Dr. Lewis. I don't like how much, or the way in which she is being used, but I guess it's just because JJ isn't there. I don't care for how much she seems to take charge. I would prefer, even with her credentials, for her to defer to other team members. And, my word, I cannot get over how horrible she looks. She is a beautiful woman. That horrible wig needs to be replaced with something that doesn't look like it was cut with a lawn mower. Garcia is intolerable.  Gotta go. My husband brought me pizza. More later. 

 

Her hair reminds me of the dolls I used to have as a child.  When you first take the doll out of the box, its hair was shiny, soft, and fluid.  Within days of playing with the doll, dressing and undressing, wrapping it in blankets, etc, the hair became a dull, rough, tangled, matted mess.  That is what Lewis's hair looks like to me.  It doesn't resemble anything close to real hair or even fur. And it looks like it was cut with a butcher knife.  I get that they wanted her not to be "pretty" and I am okay with her not looking like a Barbie doll, as a matter of fact, I appreciate it when female characters look like regular, normal, everyday, female humans, but they have gone overboard with Lewis. At least when it comes to her hair - there is nothing human about that hair.  And I find it very distracting. Whenever she is on screen, I just stare at her hair trying to figure out what it really is.   

 

Worse than that...worse than that...why did Lester decide to go back to the campground?

 

How did Lester even know that there was a campground to go to?   When Lester pulled up at the campground, Duke said something like "You followed me?"  So, after they parted ways on the side of a mountain road that supposedly leads to the Mexican border, Lester got back on his bike, followed the Duke to the house, waited patiently outside while Duke played with his kid, then "discussed" everything with the mother and tied up the "nanny," then followed the pick-up truck all the way to the campground?  And Duke never noticed the loud motorcycle following him?  Then again, it seems like they were at the campground for a while before Lester showed up, which means that Lester was able to follow them while remaining a few miles behind them.  Huh?  I would be okay with this if they had mentioned that Lester and Duke had been hiding out at the campground, but there were too many scenes of them in their motel room.  And, seriously, you just committed 4-5 felonies, so you get a room in a motel in a tiny town in New Mexico, instead of heading for a border?

 

• The ex-girlfriend of one of the unsubs should have called the cops as soon as she saw the motorcycle in her yard. Dude forced his way in to her home after she told him to go and that should have sent off alarm bells. She should have tried to get a restraining order.
• While I appreciated that they gave more personality to the sheriff and it showed how LEOs can be affected when they are unable to help, it still felt a little over-the-top or contrived. The grieving father with the strong southern twang was pretty bad.

 

Well, apparently, people of this town have never heard of 911 or have little faith in local law enforcement.  The mother doesn't call the police when she sees the motorcycle outside and the girl victim left a message for her mother instead of letting the police know that two men just broke in to the diner.  

 

However, I can understand not trusting the local sheriff when he routinely spikes his coffee.  What was the point of that anyway - to give Rossi something to do? It had no bearing on the story.  I am in favor of them basing a profile on information then changing it when they realize that information wasn't relevant - it is too predictable when every piece of possible evidence leads to the killer.  But the side stories should have something to do with the main stories.  Were we supposed to get emotionally invested in the sheriff - Oh, the poor man is so distraught...oh good, Rossi is counseling him..oh, how lovely, he has overcome his addictions enough that he can be a sniper now. 

 

Ditto to most that has been said but here is my personal peeve - any of the team at a funeral! Seriously it takes days (at best) to get a funeral organised  and the 'wheels up in 30' team are going to hang around for a funeral? NO. Not just this show either I might add.

 

This bugged me too - Each member of the BAU is so important they get called in during their vacations and never get any time off, but they have time to hang around and attend a funeral.  

[Gbb]

http://images.buddytv.com/btv_2_505522348_0_1200_10000_-1_/penelope-20garcia.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uUIF-S4fZns/TqMUotXu56I/AAAAAAAABhc/csrN463Wfn8/s1600/penelope.png

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23000000/4x11-Normal-penelope-garcia-23083985-960-540.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/0b3c7261b02fc150b38620fd233e5fc1/tumblr_n1mxreojAN1s3nbfpo1_500.png

This is about ten seconds of googling. Cover the girls, Penelope. No one is suggesting Garcia isn't sexy or that big breasts aren't sexy or don't have their place. But sorry, one burden of the big-chested girl is that she has cleavage where her flatter-chested counterpart may not. It isn't appropriate in the workplace, and I guaran-dang-tee that if she worked for the real FBI, she would've been sent home to change, a long time ago.

 

Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but... also 10 second google search:

 

 

Edited November 6, 2015 by Gbb

[JMO]

Exactly.  You've made an excellent demonstration that there is absolutely no basis for comparison between those two searches.

[Gbb]

I don't really have a dog in this fight (so to speak), but I really don't see any difference besides the size of the breasts in question. The necklines are very similar, in my opinion.

 

I'm not bothered by Garcia's (or JJ's or Emily's) cleavage. I was just curious enough to compare them when the other photos were posted and thought I'd weigh in as the photographs (to me) prove the original poster's point that the issue seems to be the size of Garcia's breasts, not the neckline itself.

 

Carry on :)

[Danielg342]

Boobs of Steel I tell you!

[Droogie]

I don't really have a dog in this fight (so to speak), but I really don't see any difference besides the size of the breasts in question. The necklines are very similar, in my opinion.

 

I'm not bothered by Garcia's (or JJ's or Emily's) cleavage. I was just curious enough to compare them when the other photos were posted and thought I'd weigh in as the photographs (to me) prove the original poster's point that the issue seems to be the size of Garcia's breasts, not the neckline itself.

 

Carry on :)

I wasn't fighting -- but I think the poster to which I responded was looking for one. However, I'll certainly chime in again.

The way those photos you've posted appear, two are definitely inappropriate for the workplace.

It doesn't change my original premise, that Kirsten's cleavage is too much of a thing. It practically needs its own agent.

It's unfortunate, but I will reiterate -- a bigger-breasted gal has more to cover (and flaunt, if that's her thing) than a smaller-breasted one does. It's the nature of clothing. Maybe it's not fair. Life isn't fair. I am five inches shorter than my best friend. We have the same skirt. It's 1" above the knee on me. It's barely fingertip length on her. She has to watch that she doesn't leave her ass hanging out when she gets out of the car (incidentally, she doesn't wear the skirt to work, either). I don't have that problem. She has gorgeous legs that go on for miles; me, not so much.

I don't see how a person has a problem with suggesting that Garcia's massive cleavage is inappropriate in the workplace. If she worked in a bar, she'd be fine. Maybe a department store, I dunno. You can't let the girls hang out in the FBI. Or at the bank. Or in a law office. It's not a commentary on her looks.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Droogie

[JMO]

I probably came off as being facetious, but I didn't mean to.  Droogie is right.  We all need to accommodate to our own body types.  The same outfit, worn by women of different endowments, can be either appropriate or inappropriate, especially when it tends to ride so much lower on the better-endowed.  Everybody has something they have to deal with.  Endowment is one of the things that Garcia has to deal with.

 

It's possible that not all workplaces have dress codes.  Those, like mine, that interface directly with the public, are perhaps more likely to have one.  There are acceptable and unacceptable qualities of attire, the descriptions of which run, literally, from head to toe.  Garcia's attire would not pass muster from the cut of her tops to the length of her skirts.  She would be sent home, and asked to return in something more appropriate.

 

Having said that, the 'reel' Garcia doesn't usually interface with the public.  Holed up in her lair, she's out of sight from all but her team, most of the time.  My guess is that addressing her attire would be left to the discretion of her supervisor.  Begging the question of whether Hotch is due for an eye exam.

[ForeverAlone]

Regardless of whoever's breasts they are, that much cleavage on anyone would not be considered appropriate for a workplace like the FBI. And yes, I am also referring to Emily and JJ's cleavage. Penelope used to dress more professionally, but her wardrobe has slowly gotten more ridiculous as her character has morphed into a cartoon caricature. Just like Morgan and JJ used to wear professional office wear but have morphed into borderline grubby tees and jeans. And Reid's ridiculous long hair for a FBI agent. It is all part of a similiar problem, so it is not about singling out Penelope. It is just that her manner of dress is the most egregiously unprofessional.

[Danielg342]

I'm not even sure if it's just a male-female thing- I'm pretty sure every member of the team could be cited for something. On the male side, Morgan regularly wears T-Shirts and leather jackets. Reid and his hair. Gideon and his sweaters (as well as his untucked shirt underneath. Heck, I'm pretty sure even Rossi has come in to work with the top button of his dress shirt undone.

The only one who can really escape criticism is Hotch, who's almost always in a suit and tie, but I'm sure even he has his moments. I don't remember enough about Ashley Seaver to remember her tops, but I don't recall her in anything other than a blazer and a blouse. The other women...as we've demonstrated, they've had their moments.

So, overall, it's a poorly disciplined team when it comes to dress. On a more self-aware show, I'd say one day they should make a joke about it, but this isn't one of those shows.

[ForeverAlone]

Ashley Seaver had a penchant for wearing skintight jeans that should have made it near impossible for her to run or do anything physical in them. 

[normasm]

Not to self-quote, but upthread I said exactly what JMO said, that there were times when Emily and JJ had too much bare chest showing. I'm not even talking cleavage, just the bareness of the top of the breasts. But it just seems like Garcia does this every damn show, and yes, it is shoved into your face. 

 

Incidentally, that top shot of Emily leaning into the interview room, she had deliberately lowered her neckline and bent over to entice the little jerk being interviewed (this was the episode, JJ). So, yeah, they were making a point with her boobs.

[JMO]

Regardless of whoever's breasts they are, that much cleavage on anyone would not be considered appropriate for a workplace like the FBI. And yes, I am also referring to Emily and JJ's cleavage. Penelope used to dress more professionally, but her wardrobe has slowly gotten more ridiculous as her character has morphed into a cartoon caricature. Just like Morgan and JJ used to wear professional office wear but have morphed into borderline grubby tees and jeans. And Reid's ridiculous long hair for a FBI agent. It is all part of a similiar problem, so it is not about singling out Penelope. It is just that her manner of dress is the most egregiously unprofessional.

 

Thanks for the reminder on Morgan's shirts, because I've been meaning to ask this question-----is he actually in an undershirt some of the time?  They're white, and they look very thin, to me.  He wore one on The Talk a few months ago as well. Is this underwear, or is it truly some kind of actual T shirt?

 

A family member recently took a job with the FBI, so of course I quizzed about a few things.  Re: dress code----business casual (collared shirts, no tie) suffices for some.  Those who are rising up the ladder tend to wear the jacket/tie combo.

[SSAHotchner]

Ashley Seaver had a penchant for wearing skintight jeans that should have made it near impossible for her to run or do anything physical in them. 

Oh my yes! There was one episode after Prentiss left and Seaver was the only female in the field. I think it was "With Friends Like These." She and Morgan were running down an alley with their guns and her jeans were so tight she could barely walk, let alone run. It was hilarious to watch, but also annoying that this is what the producers thought the viewers wanted to see in place of Prentiss and JJ. 

[ForeverAlone]

This is a nice, professional office wear, with also a nod to personal style and quirkiness. Clothes like this is what she should be wearing more often. 

[Danielg342]

What ForeverAlone said.

[MCatry]

This is a nice, professional office wear, with also a nod to personal style and quirkiness. Clothes like this is what she should be wearing more often.

I wouldn't call that dress 'nice', but it is ok.

Now those ridiculous shoes she wears (or try to...), these must go away.

[ForeverAlone]

I like that outfit, because by Penelope standards, it is bordering on conservative. :) :) :)

 

And yes, those tottering heels need to go, because they are also exceedingly ridiculous. 

[thewhiteowl]

Discussion of a character's appearance is allowed and appropriate. Disparaging other posters and their opinions is not. If you engage instead of reporting you are part of the problem.

Any questions, PM me.

[SSAHotchner]

I found the yellow dress I mentioned 5 posts above. 

Super different, right? Her arms look a bit smaller than the screenshot I posted above so maybe it's just a weight difference. 

She looks good here. 

[Mislav]

This season is still pretty low quality but definitely better than a horrendous season ten. And this episode was definitely better than the previous one.

Pretty much like Amelia Porter from season ten, this whole episode had an "old country song" feeling, to me. So, heck, I have a soft spot for it. I actually find the last scene to be beautiful.

I actually missed JJ. I know that she is a controversial character on here, to say at least. But the new character in the team combined with the long term team member absent... not good.

I actually didn't mind the team being so certain that the unsubs were young, and I happen to know the reasoning behind such claims: it has been proven that older psychopaths are less likely to commit violent crimes then the younger ones, presumably due to growning weaker phyisically and their testosterone level dropping (Dennis Rader stopped killing when he was about forty five I think). And those guys had to be strong in order to control two men and that women. Therefore, very likely young people. But they should have still explained that: it would have felt more ogranic and realistic.

We had two sick guys raping women and killing those women as well as everyone who would get in their way (well, for the most part) . At least somewhat realistic. It reminded me of Leonard Lake and Gary Heidnik, especially making others (men) watch them raping the women and then murder them all and burn the bodies.

But that is about it for the good sides about this episode...

The writers tried to make us feel sympathy for the unsub, but it just felt cheap and out of place, to me. They seem to be showing rapists in the more sympathetic light during the last few seasons-trying to, actually. I don't really mind the idea on it's own-the idea of seeing a human side to such monsters is intriguing. But it just didn't work here. And why do so with the unsubs? Just have them interrogate the registered sex offender as a suspect, for example, and make him appear to genuinely trying to change his ways, and have him turn out to be innocent-don't make it last longer than five minutes. For example. I remember feeling sorry for Eric Miller from "The Fox", even though he was an alcoholic who had been abusing his wife.

Regarding Reid's mind, like other posters have pointed out: less special effects and camera work, more dialogues/monologues and actor perfromances.

It is concluded that the victims were tied up with their own clothing based on the fibers recovered around their wrists. Since it was THEIR clothing, wouldn't it be normal for that type of fibers to remain on that area? The killers burned the bodies, not even semen remained, but the ME was able to find those fibers on at least two bodies? Please...

Lester is supposed to be twenty six? Seriously?

I know that Lester was the less organized/rational one, but would he really not even bother to take the security camera tapes? He was wearing a mask but still...

I am not even going to comment on them telling a hardened criminal that he may actually leave prison alive (legally), despite having committed multiple rapes and murders, if he rats out on his accomplice. And him believing them and doing just that.

Garcia wasn't nearly as annoying in most of later episodes and her computer skills were more realistic here, but it was all still ridiculously fast.

The subplot with the local chief of police seemed very underdeveloped and out of place, especially on David's part. But at least they had the subplot that was in some way related to the case.

I still prefer Amelia Porter, and I find Benton Farland really intriguing and complex unsub. The song track was more fitting too. This episode had a better plot than Amelia Porter, but it is still a lousy plot, kind of cheesy unsubs and underdeveloped atmosphere, while "Amelia Porter" at least had a great atmosphere and an original unsub, to me.

Anyway, 5/10, I'd say.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Mislav