S08.E05: The Nose

[westwingfan]

 

I don't know. I think the rampant stupidity extends to both Beckett and Castle. And TPTB's plan, if there is one, has backfired.

Is that a reference to Castle's method of getting Mia to leave her apartment? LOL

The constant mentions of bums and bodily functions reminded me of the "Carry On" films of days of yore, all it needed was a few bosom jokes and the comparison would have been complete, although the Carry On films were usually funnier.

[Thak]

 

I think the only way they could possibly pull this off is by giving them each new shows....not going to happen, of course....except maybe on Vimeo ;-).

 

You're probably right, but since they are changing the DNA of the show, and they are supposedly prepared for the fall out, I say go for it. 

[TWP]

Honestly, with this level of screw up, I think it's time for someone in the network Castle-dom to create a fan spoiler site....maybe if we were all in on the plan and only Castle and Beckett didn't know, we could go along with the silliness....

 

I know I'd settle down.  We check reality at the door all the time with TV. For me, unrealism is the least of my worries.  I just want to be entertained without the underlying wave of ...well you know.  Every term I thought of to describe it applied to other aspects of the show, so I'll let you fill in the blank.

Edited October 20, 2015 by TVWithPity

[KaveDweller]

One thing was the emotional warmth the Castle demonstrated when dealing with Mia. It reminded me of how things used to be between Castle and Alexis, before Alexis became brittle. And the Martha scene was well-tuned Martha (why, oh, why, don't they have an ep based on Martha's past?). There were scenes that makes me wish the particular writer could be given free rein on a less burdened episode

 

One thing I liked about Mia was when Castle was trying to talk her into helping and gave her a speech about needing to find justice, that totally would have worked on Beckett, but not Mia. He had to come up with another tactic.  It would have been annoying if they made her just like Beckett.

 

Is that a reference to Castle's method of getting Mia to leave her apartment? LOL

 

That scene was the worst thing I've ever seen on an adult TV show.

[oberon55]

If I sort of tilted my head to ignore the LOKSAT and tilted it the other way to ignore the frat boy humor (farting as a herding maneuver? Ass-posito humor carried on too long), there was more to enjoy in this episode than previously.

 

I think when I have to make a list of the things I have to ignore to watch a show I'm fighting a losing battle.

[westwingfan]

One thing I liked about Mia was when Castle was trying to talk her into helping and gave her a speech about needing to find justice, that totally would have worked on Beckett, but not Mia. He had to come up with another tactic.  It would have been annoying if they made her just like Beckett.

 

 

That scene was the worst thing I've ever seen on an adult TV show.

I bet that had them falling about in the writers' room though. It's all about the "fun". You get the feeling they are writing for their core audience that inhabits social media and gets all excited when Caskett indulge in a limp hug as though all is right with the world LOL

[Cyranetta]

 

 

I think when I have to make a list of the things I have to ignore to watch a show I'm fighting a losing battle.

 

No question! At least this episode gave us a new synonym for "half-assed" -- if someone calls something an "Esposito thing to do"...

[VinceW]

final ratings

Monday 10/19/15 Final Ratings
#Blindspot  2.1 –  7.82M
#NCISLA 1.3  – 8.77M
#Castle  1.1 – 6.67M

lowest total viewers for the season

NCIS:LA has just the right level of comedy for its demographic, but Castle reached its lowest level with the frat boy and slapstick mentality used in this episode. The only topic not covered was masturbation. It is the kind of comedy that NF must have been promised in order to renew his contract. I feel that this episode had a lot of misinterpretation about pheromone production because it has nothing to do with love and everything to do with lust. Just because Kate is turned on by Castle doesn't mean she loves him. She certainly doesn't love him more than her overwhelming addiction to the chase.  2+ million difference in numbers with certain of the competition yet the NCIS:LA stories mostly involve nothing outside national security. The crime cases given the new Castle writers have been workable, but they are hampered by the forced Caskett separation which just gets harder and harder to sit through for 42 minutes. You would hope that the Slaughter episode is not more of the frat boy stuff given the title "Cool Boys". No movement at all on the Big Bad rather just a phone call with Vikram.  The summer information about the new cast member involvement and the writers expanding the secondary character roles not very evident so far except the odd changes in behavior between Ryan and Espo.  As far as the fall finale, I expect  what will happen comes from the title: Mr(two month disappearance) & Mrs(LOCKSAT) Castle actually involves the same dangerous person and it becomes evident to both the need to work together to solve the case. IMO

Edited October 20, 2015 by VinceW

[Thak]

 

But at least we can feel bad for Castle.

 

Why? I intially felt bad for Castle, but not now.  He has the attention span of a gnat when it comes to this separation, by all accounts he's adjusted quite well.  I'm starting to think that Beckett inadvertently made the right call to distance herself from him, what do they call it, "a blessing in disguise?".

[pcta]

OK- here's what I want. I want Castle to go into therapy to find out why he chooses emotionally unavailable (or as in the case of one x - straight ass crazy) partners. I want him to split his time between writing and PI biz. I want him to tell B they can be friends but no more games and no more intimacy.

I want B to be an adult and start doing her actual job. Therapy wouldn't hurt her but, as of now, I don't really care about the characters personal development - I just want B to stop doing harm

I want Ryan to keep it in his pants if he can't afford another child and/or to look for a job in a city (just about anywhere other than London or Paris) with a cost of living that isn't as insane as NYC where he can raise his kids on his salary

I want Alexis to go to Univ while working pt at PI biz.

I want Martha to recognize that B is a loser for her son.

I have given up on wanting seasons 1-3 back because these current characters can't be those people

I want it to be over - so I don't weaken and watch the train wreck

[KaveDweller]

I want Ryan to keep it in his pants if he can't afford another child and/or to look for a job in a city (just about anywhere other than London or Paris) with a cost of living that isn't as insane as NYC where he can raise his kids on his salary

 

Or maybe Jenny should be getting a job.  Not that there's anything wrong with being a stay at home mom, but why should Ryan have to kill himself working extra jobs and selling information to Castle to make ends meet? Or are we supposed to forget about the selling information from last week?

 

Other thoughts on this episode:

 

Martha is supposed to be in a new Broadway play, shouldn't she be performing at night and not at Castle's cooking dinner for the nose lady?

 

When Beckett got to the loft to pack her things, we saw her open the door and have no key in her hand. So Castle leaves his door unlocked just 24 hours after getting held at gunpoint there? He deserves to have people break in.

 

Caskett figured out who the killer was because of the air conditioner, which is a clear sign the writers are not from NYC.  Otherwise they would know that in New York you don't need to run air conditioners in late October.  (Okay, yes it was unseasonably warm today, but yesterday it was below freezing). Normal New York weather wouldn't require it, so it shouldn't have been an important part of the plot.

 

It sounded really weird for Beckett to call Castle "Rick" in this episode.

[pennben]

 

Martha is supposed to be in a new Broadway play, shouldn't she be performing at night and not at Castle's cooking dinner for the nose lady?

 

I'll take this one.....don't Broadway shows get Mondays off?  Assuming that our Mondays are Castle's Mondays, she could well be home in the evening.

[KaveDweller]

I'll take this one.....don't Broadway shows get Mondays off?  Assuming that our Mondays are Castle's Mondays, she could well be home in the evening.

 

Okay, I guess that could explain it. And this episode did mostly take place in one day.

[MaryM47]

My quick first impressions, then I'll go back and read about all the stuff I missed that you all noticed:

 

-The actress playing the Nose has always bugged me, so it further enhanced the annoyance factor of her character for me. I did like how nicely Castle treated her throughout the show.
-Some really funny lines in this one - especially Ryan’s unintended innuendo about Beckett’s backside.
-Having only Espo pass the exam was a good twist that paid off with some great scenes between the boys.
-Castle’s technique for getting Mia out of her apartment was good stinking, I mean thinking, on Castle’s part (sorry).
-Agreed that the breakup is casting an unnecessary pall over the show, but overall I think the writing and character interactions have improved.
-Ryan shooting at shadows was a dumb-ass move (no pun intended).  And Assposito?  Ha!
-Wait! Martha’s an actress? And Castle writes books? I’d almost forgotten /sarcasm. But nice to hear she got the part.
-That was a very fast moving hour, but like most of you, I pegged the brother for the killer the moment they first interviewed him. I like when the killer is not the obvious suspect, but don’t make it so obvious that it’s not.
-Beckett smelling his jacket was a bit cheesy, but actually had me tearing up a bit.
-Wicked City? Sorry ABC, not gonna happen.

[Chado]

Why? I intially felt bad for Castle, but not now.  He has the attention span of a gnat when it comes to this separation, by all accounts he's adjusted quite well.  I'm starting to think that Beckett inadvertently made the right call to distance herself from him, what do they call it, "a blessing in disguise?".

How does that make sense? Everything he has been shown to be doing all season has been about 'winning Beckett back'. All his actions, his involvement in cases, and attitude, is trying to get Beckett to talk to him and/or change her mind about being separated.

 

In my opinion it's stupid because he should see the timeline and realize what this has to do with, how he can still think it has to do with him, blows my mind......but how somebody can say that he's "adjusted quite well" seems very strange.

 

Everything he is doing...appears to be about giving himself hope that there is actually something he can do to "fix" things.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Chado

[Chado]

I'll stop having patience for him once he finds out the truth, when he finds out why she left their marriage, the 'winning her back' thing needs to die, and he needs to stop trying. At that point, it has to come from her.

 

Until he understands the situation, I have no problem with him forcing an answer or at least trying to improve things. No marriage can be put on hold with a 'it's complicated', 'i need some time'. Especially when that person who walked out, keeps giving him hope, keeps dangling the carrot to him, gives him signs that she still loves him and wants to be with him.

 

He is being made to look intentionally 'stupid' to not realize the connection between the AG deaths and Beckett's actions afterwards, but Beckett is being so incredibly selfish. I don't buy any of her actions of 'love' as romantic or "omg she called him babe, I'm dying!!!!" which keeps getting hyped on social media.

 

She is not a likable character at the moment. I find it easy to be sympathetic to Castle (even if It frustrates me how he's been made to look stupid) because his wife is showing him no respect at all.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Chado

[femmefan1946]

When Beckett got to the loft to pack her things, we saw her open the door and have no key in her hand.

I don't have  a housekey. All our locks are opened by punching in a code.

 

And I wonder if the writers have been watching Terrance and Philip for all the fart /arse jokes. This is what you get for hiring Canadian actors.

[Thak]

 

Everything he is doing...appears to be about giving himself hope that there is actually something he can do to "fix" things.

 

Wow, sorry I don't see that at all.  Two sad looks in this episode just doesn't cut it.  There is no substance there.

[WendyCR72]

Speaking as a poster and not a mod here: I don't think Castle should have to do anything in terms of drowning in tears for Beckett. She left, with barely an explanation and she is the one who seems to be playing "keep away/come to me".

 

If my husband did what she did? Screw feeling sad. Anger would prevail, and it would be "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!" and I'd tell him to send me his address for the divorce papers, because I wasn't going to wait around.

 

Whatever TPTB are thinking, it has seriously decimated these characters and, IMO, Beckett looks shittier than most right now.

[Chado]

Wow, sorry I don't see that at all.  Two sad looks in this episode just doesn't cut it.  There is no substance there.

Why did he want the 'nose lady' to help, why did he go chase after her? Beckett. He wanted to know what "works" when he is talking to Beckett. All of Castle's actions are built off trying to get Beckett back.

 

Whether there is substance or not, is entirely subjective. I don't like that I'm almost defending the show now (I'm hating season 8) but Castle's motivations seem clear to me.

 

I just hate how much of a doormat he is.

[Chado]

Speaking as a poster and not a mod here: I don't think Castle should have to do anything in terms of drowning in tears for Beckett. She left, with barely an explanation and she is the one who seems to be playing "keep away/come to me".

 

If my husband did what she did? Screw feeling sad. Anger would prevail, and it would be "don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!" and I'd tell him to send me his address for the divorce papers, because I wasn't going to wait around.

 

Whatever TPTB are thinking, it has seriously decimated these characters and, IMO, Beckett looks shittier than most right now.

I agree entirely Wendy, Castle shouldn't have to do anything. The basis of the show requires him to act unnaturally.

 

I just don't get why so many fans are ok or believe Castle's reactions are normal in this situation (this may seem strange after what I just said to Thak). I just want anger from Castle, I want him to get divorce papers written up, I want to see Beckett's reaction to that. It feels like it's the only thing that will make her wake up at this point.

 

At the end of the day, they make Castle act like this because it's the only way they can write 'light-hearted' episodes. If he stops 'trying to win her back' then the show is pretty much over. It's why I'm curious what this "shift" will be, because I can't deal with another 12-14 episodes of this version of Castle....even if I have sympathy for him and see the pain, the anger should have soon followed.

[Thak]

I hate season 8 too.  Both characters have had lobotomies for this story arc.

 

 

Castle's motivations seem clear to me.

 

That great for you, but it's not working for me.  With the nose lady he came across as childish when asking about Beckett.  Beckett is right there in front of him and he doesn't TALK to her, he doesn't get mad, doesn't DO anything.  The previous episode he gets up from bed looking sad Beckett isn't there and then when he see's his new toy "Lucy", it's "toy, toy, toy!!!!, what was I just thinking about, oh well, toy, toy, toy!!!!!!!!!!".  What I see is Martha caring more about the Beckett situation than Castle.  

 

 

Then, divorce papers.

 

Amicable divorce.  I've said it before but that way Castle can continue to work with the NYPD while playing with others and Beckett can pair up with a mature man (lawyer) who likes to spar/romance her.  Would definitely give the show a larger ensemble to work with. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by Thak

[verdana]

Did I do anything wrong? Will you go to counseling?

 

And the answer to each was NO, but stay away from me...

 

Then, divorce papers. 

 

Loving looks and touches would only piss me off more. 

 

That would just spell passive-aggressiveness. GO AWAY. I love you. You're pretty. Now I'm going to touch you affectionately. Then I'm going to tell you I'm picking up the rest of my stuff.

I'm with Wendy on this one too and yeah and as for all the loving looks and touches, she has no right to be all touchy feely if she's not willing to talk to the guy and explain what's going on. It gives the unfortunate impression she's toying with him no wonder he's so confused! Even though they keep hitting me over the head with how much she loves him given the situation they're in and the way she pulls and pushes him away is unappealing not romantic. If there was no separation her affectionate behaviour would be great to see but not given these set of circumstances. 

 

As soon as she refused counselling that was kind of it for me on the sympathy front because she's not willing to help herself or give him a shred of hope. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

That great for you, but it's not working for me.  With the nose lady he came across as childish when asking about Beckett.  Beckett is right there in front of him and he doesn't TALK to her, he doesn't get mad, doesn't DO anything.  The previous episode he gets up from bed looking sad Beckett isn't there and then when he see's his new toy "Lucy", it's "toy, toy, toy!!!!, what was I just thinking about, oh well, toy, toy, toy!!!!!!!!!!".  What I see is Martha caring more about the Beckett situation than Castle.  

Castle's motivations seem clear to me but I also get what you're saying about him having the attention span of gnat when it comes to this separation.  Those instances you mention are perfect examples of where they play the "Castle is upset" routine but immediately undermine what they're going for either with the way it's played by the actor or with a subsequent scene.

 

The moment with the nose lady when he's asking her to tell him when he's being annoying etc came off as childish not the request of a man who is in turmoil over his wife leaving him. Fillion should have been told to stop with the silly faces and keep the tone deadly serious and the toy thing was even worse. You get Castle moping in bed looking sad and glancing at the empty space alongside him, that's good thumbs up writers but then they undo it all because seconds later he's ecstatic over a toy acting like a kid at Christmas and it's like separation what separation?  Here's Lucy!  

 

The writers undermine their own efforts in telling their story with this desire to constantly inject a comedy element into a scene when it rubs along awkwardly with the idea that this guy is focused solely on getting his wife back and bereft.  It therefore gives me this weird vibe of him obviously caring... but not actually being that bothered really at other moments. 

 

You can put a brave face on events when you go out into the world when your life is falling apart obviously but that's not the impression I'm getting here with Castle. 

 

I fear the Slaughter episode is going to bring more of this kind of weirdness.

 

The problem is that separating from someone isn't funny or light hearted, it's a painful and distressing time so trying to infuse comedy into this story is doomed to failure it makes for confusing and uncomfortable viewing. People don't behave like this, makes both of them like you say look as if they've been lobotomised. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana

[Chado]

Amicable divorce.  I've said it before but that way Castle can continue to work with the NYPD while playing with others and Beckett can pair up with a mature man (lawyer) who likes to spar/romance her.  Would definitely give the show a larger ensemble to work with. 

See, to me this entire thing proves Beckett doesn't belong in a relationship. A relationship requires compromise and being able to negotiation or find common ground, Beckett is completely unable to do that. She's selfish.

 

I don't see why Castle would remain at the NYPD if he divorced Beckett either, would make no sense.

[Thak]

 

See, to me this entire thing proves Beckett doesn't belong in a relationship. A relationship requires compromise and being able to negotiation or find common ground, Beckett is completely unable to do that. She's selfish.

 

I don't see why Castle would remain at the NYPD if he divorced Beckett either, would make no sense.

Hence the talk about a friendly divorce. 

 

Perhaps we should wait until the fall finale to see what the new twist will be, they say it will shed more light on where the story is going.

[Castle75]

Is there a reaction playbook out there that I don't know about? Many are expecting a certain behavior from these characters based on some perceived guideline set up either in your own mind or society. This I don't get at all. Beckett and Castle can behave however the writers want, because they are putting the words in their mouth. They don't have to act like cousin Billy when his wife separated or broke up with him. They don't have to follow a certain path, because it makes sense to what we would expect someone to do.

[KaveDweller]

When Beckett got to the loft to pack her things, we saw her open the door and have no key in her hand.

I don't have  a housekey. All our locks are opened by punching in a code.

 

And I wonder if the writers have been watching Terrance and Philip for all the fart /arse jokes. This is what you get for hiring Canadian actors.

Codes to unlock the house? That sounds cool, you can never lock yourself out.

I wish Castle would ask Beckett what is going on, he hasn't done that since PhDead. I thought his actions in that episode made perfect sense. Since then they've made less since. Beckett being affectionate with him should be making him more curious. Castle always need to know they story. The story of Beckett leaving him, but still clearly loving him makes no sense and he should be trying to figure it out more. But the writers clearly want to wait for him to find out the truth until the fall finale.

See, to me this entire thing proves Beckett doesn't belong in a relationship. A relationship requires compromise and being able to negotiation or find common ground, Beckett is completely unable to do that. She's selfish.

 

I don't see why Castle would remain at the NYPD if he divorced Beckett either, would make no sense.

I do think Beckett has proven that she can do well in a relationship in the past. She and Castle were solid, she made decisions with him, was very supportive, etc. It is just that then we got new writers who decided to forget all that for drama. And as awful as her actions are, I can't totally hate the character because it just seems so ridiculous and out of character.

[oberon55]

Is there a reaction playbook out there that I don't know about? Many are expecting a certain behavior from these characters based on some perceived guideline set up either in your own mind or society. This I don't get at all. Beckett and Castle can behave however the writers want, because they are putting the words in their mouth. They don't have to act like cousin Billy when his wife separated or broke up with him. They don't have to follow a certain path, because it makes sense to what we would expect someone to do.

 

Yes in my opinion there should be a reaction playbook. The writers & the audience have 7 years of established behavior to look at & say "How would Beckett or Castle handle this." Instead the writers on this show say "I don't care how out of character this is. The plot demands they act this way & after all I'm the one putting the words in their mouth." I believe it's this attitude that is going to kill the show.

Edited October 21, 2015 by oberon55

[verdana]

Is there a reaction playbook out there that I don't know about? Many are expecting a certain behavior from these characters based on some perceived guideline set up either in your own mind or society. This I don't get at all. Beckett and Castle can behave however the writers want, because they are putting the words in their mouth. They don't have to act like cousin Billy when his wife separated or broke up with him. They don't have to follow a certain path, because it makes sense to what we would expect someone to do.

 

 

Just because the writers can do whatever they want with the characters at their disposal doesn't mean that they should. A good writer will take time to establish the characters, they develop them to fit into a particular world they have chosen for them to inhabit. They give a character their own set of quirks, morals, likes, dislikes - hopefully a distinct personality that the audience can relate to and enjoy and this gets added to over time as the story develops so fans will hopefully invest in them even further - and want to stick around to see what happens next. 

 

How can you expect an audience to root for the characters and your story if you don't respect their history just to get the plot where you want it to go? That's what has been done here. Writers who start to bend and twist the characters out of shape and pay scant attention to their own established characterisation are playing with fire and disillusionment can quickly set in amongst the fans. 

 

I've already seen evidence of this, some bloggers I follow who were in the past consistently positive about the show. One has even changed his blog name and announced he's no longer watching until this "shitty" story arc is done he's that disappointed in the showrunners, another has quit completely due to what she perceives as lazy writing and character assassination. The S6 finale was badly received by many but this feels much worse and has proved (for some) to be the final straw. Once you've lost your audience they rarely come back. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana

[femmefan1946]

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/aged-bronze-electronic-door-handleset-camelot-accent-lever/930413?eid=PS_GO_140203__ALL_PLA-930413&pid=930413&gclid=Cj0KEQjw75yxBRD78uqEnuG-5vcBEiQAQbaxSPXIyP9vIgeUnrn8KmQZ4KM771O-hBbT3mFrFtFk2NwaAr9U8P8HAQ

 

They are pretty common. We went with the lever handle because we're also working to making the house 'universal design'. Next the roll-in wheelchair shower.

 

NF's man-boy personality may have something to do with this mess. It could be the conservative man part. He has said from time to time that his first unemployed months in LA terrified him. Maybe he is willing to have Castle stick around as his day job, while finding pleasure in his many other projects (Die-Nasty, Thrilling Adventure Hour, SF movie cameos, voice work, ConMan, etc. )

I dunno. Never met the guy.

[verdana]

See, to me this entire thing proves Beckett doesn't belong in a relationship. A relationship requires compromise and being able to negotiation or find common ground, Beckett is completely unable to do that. She's selfish.

She's often come over as self absorbed and selfish where Castle is concerned at key moments but I thought things had much improved since Watershed and I felt good about the character again and was pleased when they got married, that despite some missteps they belonged together. I wished they had built on that instead of smashing it apart, due to her behaviour over this Locksat business I'm seriously questioning if Beckett can ever have a meaningful relationship with any guy.

 

That's very frustrating because it's such a needless regression for the character and worse there are very few avenues open to make things look healthy and good again for them as a couple. Sadly a repeat of "Always" (which I've seen many clamouring for) won't cut it for me in terms of repairing the damage they've done.  Whilst I can understand the annoyance directed at Beckett because she does look bad, ultimately I blame the writers. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana

[RustbeltWriter]

This was probably the best episode pf the season and there were funny bits. I'm not at all ashamed to say that farts are funny and always will be. The nose lady was acually used to good effect and not nearly as annoying as that kind of guest star can be. As for Ryan shooting Esposito, it's hard to believe such a thing would go undisciplined but then again this show's premise is that a writer went on a ride along that lasted for more than half a decade. Also, it gave us "Asspo" which made me giggle.

 

The big story arc needs to be over and done with now. It's boring and now it's gotten so complex that I don't care to put the effort into keeping up with it.I cringe whenever I hear Vikram's name. It's really obnoxious that this show handled the whole "will they or won't they" thing so deftly and then turned around and shot themselves in the ass by breaking up Castle and Beckett in some misguided attempt to try and recapture the magic of him pursuing her. It's just ridiculous at this point.

[Sonik Tooth]

I think the writers can regress or enhance characters as much as they please, it’s their prerogative. They might lose me in the process though :-) It happened on Castle before with the two main characters and just recently an enhanced Alexis was elevator-pitched to the audience.

 

But that’s not really happening to Castle and Beckett right now IMO. It’s the construction of absurd and unrealistic circumstances that have the characters in some kind of limbo where they only can behave oddly. I mean, if they explore Beckett’s reasoning and feelings any deeper, they probably will fail to offer anything substantial. Same with Castle. So they opt for some sad eyes and humour.

 

It’s just so unnecessary. If the show doesn’t have the balls to do a real split up, with a reason people can get behind (even if it means character regression or eye rolling because randomness), they shouldn’t have done it.

 

And if the show is doing a quid pro quo later on (I’m thinking about Castle’s absence), it should have been included in the first two episodes. At least Beckett linked to trust issues, moving out temporarily to find out the truth/find justice is slightly more reasonable than Beckett moving out because of, well, nothing concrete.

 

Other than that, I found the episode quite entertaining. Only the Asspo joke fell flat. Oh, and Castle, not every woman who finds a guy attractive, wants to live with him. But at least he can scratch missing sexual attraction off his list.

[Thak]

 

I wished they had built on that instead of smashing it apart, due to her behaviour over this Locksat business I'm seriously questioning if Beckett can ever have a meaningful relationship with any guy.

 

This is where there was a shift in me as a viewer.  Beckett was given a clear choice, drop the investigation and everyone lives happily ever after, don't drop it and she risks bringing bloodshed to her family and friends.  When she made her choice my first thought was the writer's are deliberately throwing the character under the bus and running over her several times for good measure.  As a viewer I was already disliking the romance of Castle and Beckett because of the Castle character, so Kate's behavior has taken me further out of it.  Was this their intent? They also may want me to dislike Kate, but I won't because if I'm being honest, she is the only reason I'm still watching this show.  At the end of the day I honestly don't care what they do as long as Beckett is on my screen.  If or when that day comes that she is not on my screen, I will simply stop watching this show and hope to see the actress in something else.  It is only a tv show after all so now I'm just imagining the ways they plan to change the DNA of this show.  I need to go to the speculation thread for that if I'm so inclined.

[CastleSeason8]

I have read in a few places that Kate took Castles shirt with her in that end scene. Did i miss something? Or was i overcome by emotions and blinded by unshed tears and missed it (sarcasism). But seriously, did they show her taking it?

[roamyn]

I rather enjoyed the moniker "Asspo", both for obvious reasons and for the fact that he's my least favorite of the big four (Castle/Beckett/Ryan/Asspo). Honestly, I wish I had thought up this nickname years ago!

I don't.

Esposito is more cop material than Ryan. I love Ryan, too. But Espo's more realistic. He's also ex-military, and acts it.

Where was all the damn outrage when Ryan LIED to Esposito abt being able to take the exam? And SELLING INFORMATION TO A NON MEMBER OF THE POLICE FORCE?!

Oh that's right. He's the precious little wubbins of the fans. The one who hurts & cries. Blech!

Give me a real cop any day.

ETA. Espo has seniority over Ryan, and that still is a big factor in most PDs.

Edited October 21, 2015 by roamyn

[verdana]

I have read in a few places that Kate took Castles shirt with her in that end scene. Did i miss something? Or was i overcome by emotions and blinded by unshed tears and missed it (sarcasism). But seriously, did they show her taking it?

Wishful thinking, she sniffed it but then it cut to Castle coming home.

 

I didn't get misty eyed over that scene she sniffed the shirt so what? She still walked out the door again and yet she doesn't have to. 

 

The writers can throw as many of these little moments in as they like it won't warm my icy heart until such time as Beckett tells her husband what she's doing and shows her husband some respect. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Esposito is more cop material than Ryan. I love Ryan, too. But Espo's more realistic. He's also ex-military, and acts it.

Where was all the damn outrage when Ryan LIED to Esposito abt being able to take the exam? And SELLING INFORMATION TO A NON MEMBER OF THE POLICE FORCE?!

Oh that's right. He's the precious little wubbins of the fans. The one who hurts & cries. Blech!

Give me a real cop any day.

ETA. Espo has seniority over Ryan, and that still is a big factor in most PDs.

Quite a number fans on various blogs and fan forums took issue with Ryan taking a bribe from Castle. It did not go without notice or comment. I didn't like it at all, seemed OOC. 

 

I understand Jon did serve in the army prior to taking up acting so he has the necessary experience to make that side of his persona look realistic.

 

However, I'd still prefer Ryan over Espo who is not my idea of instant promotion material after the stunt he pulled in Always when he went off the reservation with Beckett and almost got himself killed along with his future captain.  He then threw a childish hissy fit against Ryan who quite rightly told Gates about Beckett's plan to track down Maddox which saved both their lives but I guess he thought rotting in a grave was the better option. 

[pennben]

Agreed Verdana, I think Ryan's move will come back to bite him, well, in his ass.  It just seemed terribly out of character for him. As for Espo, you noted the precise reason I think he is not worthy of promotion.  I've also just never liked this macho thing he does, especially when he has gone in on Castle, although Castle has never given him a reason not to trust him, Espo is right there every time there is a potential question and every time he's decided that Castle can't be trusted.  And, he's always been wrong. 

Edited October 21, 2015 by pennben

[verdana]

I hope there are repercussions for Ryan taking a bribe from Castle but I fear it will be brushed under the carpet.  Castle was also in the wrong to offer one, if Ryan has money worries he could have helped him out in other ways, for example by paying Ryan for tech expertise.

[MaryM47]

Writers who do not consider character development and don't see the characters as people, but instead puppets who are put there to say their words, are known as hacks. Horrible writers not fit to write.

 

So much yes to your entire post, SweetTooth. I worked at a library, and was quite involved with an active online fanfic community for another show, with several authors who went on to become published writers, and have heard time and time again about how different authors had one plan for a character, but that character had other ideas. They treated their characters as real people, and created them so fully that their personalities dictated the plot, not the other way around. 

[VinceW]

As both a writer and editor, I agree in a negative way, not a positive one.

 

Writers who do not consider character development and don't see the characters as people, but instead puppets who are put there to say their words, are known as hacks. Horrible writers not fit to write...................

 

That's bad creatively and bad for business.......................................

 

These writers wanted to get back that old flame. They did it by separating two characters it took years and years to get together. Then they made one of them look selfish by more than one person asking Kate, "Are you sure you want to do this? It means giving up everyone you love, hurting them horribly, and putting their lives in danger," and the answer Kate gives is yes, yes, and more yes, then how does the audience connect with that character?

 

And what about taking a formerly astute character and making them just this giant, stupid goofball who can't seem to figure out, even when it's in big, neon letters, that he didn't do anything wrong, and that his partner, the love of his life, is keeping a secret  that could end up in him dying...

 

That the writers established she left Castle to save his life so he doesn't look like he's in her life as she investigates this case, obsessively. Because it's her OBSESSION! But she's continuing to see Castle daily and work cases with him, which means if anyone is watching, it pretty much looks like business as usual. And she's not even working HER OBSESSION that much and is continuing with her usual life. The only difference is she's not sleeping in the same bed as Castle.

 

So, when you, the writer, have set up a premise, then everything you write goes against that premise, but you continue to think this is brilliant, and talk about how brilliant it is, well then, you're a horrible writer.

I think your analysis confirms the exact reason that Marlowe was always careful to tell fans that once they got together, he would never break them up because he knew it would ruin his story and damage the characters and put the story in the place it is right now which is a mess and losing viewers weekly. His issue was writing them as married couple which he tried to avoid as long as possible. His stalling resulted in the delayed wedding and the Castle mythology.  I don’t believe that writing Caskett as a married couple in the long term was ever part of Marlowe’s plan, but rather he left the story in a good place in the S7 finale for others to go forward. The early season comments from Hawley explaining his bold move implied that using her obsession as part of her DNA would not hurt the character which he thought viewers would just except with some arrogance, but you can’t split up a married couple and then have them work together for an extended time period given that one partner has no idea the reason for the change while the other keeps showing outward signs of affection without some kind of resolution. The story is just going in circles by using comedy to keep the audience watching. It is still hard to believe that the network went along with this story line because what has happened is that the current live viewership numbers are nearing levels that at some point will be lower than some of the off times repeated episodes broadcast during the last two seasons which can’t help syndication.

Edited October 21, 2015 by VinceW

[roamyn]

[quote name="verdana" post="1627119"

I understand Jon did serve in the army prior to taking up acting so he has the necessary experience to make that side of his persona look realistic.

However, I'd still prefer Ryan over Espo who is not my idea of instant promotion material after the stunt he pulled in Always when he went off the reservation with Beckett and almost got himself killed along with his future captain. He then threw a childish hissy fit against Ryan who quite rightly told Gates about Beckett's plan to track down Maddox which saved both their lives but I guess he thought rotting in a grave was the better option.

I believe Jon was in the Air Force, while Espo was in Army or Marine Special Services.

I'll give you that Espo acted just as irresponsibly as Beckett in 'Always' and treated Ryan horribly. But his SOMETIMES suspicious nature of Castle is because he looks upon Beckett as a sister. And that was only rarely. Usually the two are acting all macho together, while Castle & Ryan go off on intangible theories together.

I have to say Jon's looking just as hefty as Nathan this season. Actually Nathan looks a bit slimmer.

And Seamus needs to lay off the heavy theatrical make-up. It's too much, ge doesn't need all that.

[roamyn]

It would also be nice to see Ryan and Espo having an adjustment period to having to call their friend "captain" all the time or Beckett worrying that people don't give her the same respect they gave Gates because she's been in the trenches with them.

This is precisely why cops do not get promoted to their same department.

I know, it's tv, but still, it's unrealistic and makes for awkward working relationships.

[KaveDweller]

This is precisely why cops do not get promoted to their same department.

I know, it's tv, but still, it's unrealistic and makes for awkward working relationships.

 

Is that just in cases where someone becomes captain and is in charge or also true of promotions at lower levels, like to detective, lieutenant, etc? I mean I know no one really goes from detective to captain, but if Beckett had been promoted to Sergeant like she should have would she have been sent to a different precinct? 

[roamyn]

Is that just in cases where someone becomes captain and is in charge or also true of promotions at lower levels, like to detective, lieutenant, etc? I mean I know no one really goes from detective to captain, but if Beckett had been promoted to Sergeant like she should have would she have been sent to a different precinct?

I don't think so. My uncle, who passed away a few years ago, always said he never wanted to be promoted aft sargeant, because it would take him away from his partner and the job (homicide detective) that he loved so much. Of course, he & his partner hold the record of longevity as partners in Cleveland and no one will ever pass them, because Cleveland passed a measure some years ago that partners can no longer be together beyond 15 years for safety reasons.

[verdana]

Then they made one of them look selfish by more than one person asking Kate, "Are you sure you want to do this? It means giving up everyone you love, hurting them horribly, and putting their lives in danger," and the answer Kate gives is yes, yes, and more yes, then how does the audience connect with that character?

That's what has me scratching my head since this story arc started, how the writers thought this up believing it would make everyone feel sympathetic towards Beckett when it couldn't have been written more starkly to push me in the exact opposite direction. It does make me wonder time and time again every week watching this unfold how the writers view relationships when I'm watching this, they can never have endured a break up that much I do know.

 

Making Castle remind us with each episode about his grand plan to work all of Kate's cases so she remembers why she fell in love with him, does not mean we believe it. As a writer, you've given your characters motivations based on...no foundation at all.

Yes to this so much, just because a character says something doesn't make it true. Many times on Castle they've tried to convince me about something and it's failed because there's absolutely nothing there to back up those words. That sense of complacency has been seeping into the writing for a long time now. they don't care about showing genuine character motivation it's a case of lets have the character say X and the fans will nod their heads and accept it as gospel. 

[verdana]

I don't think so. My uncle, who passed away a few years ago, always said he never wanted to be promoted aft sargeant, because it would take him away from his partner and the job (homicide detective) that he loved so much. Of course, he & his partner hold the record of longevity as partners in Cleveland and no one will ever pass them, because Cleveland passed a measure some years ago that partners can no longer be together beyond 15 years for safety reasons.

That's kind of tough having to be split up like that when after so long together when you must know each other so well and make a good solid team.  What do they mean by safety reasons exactly?  Lee Lofland who reviews the show and is a police officer said much the same thing, that a lot of officers don't want promotion because it takes them away from the job they love doing and their team. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

I think your analysis confirms the exact reason that Marlowe was always careful to tell fans that once they got together, he would never break them up because he knew it would ruin his story and damage the characters and put the story in the place it is right now which is a mess and losing viewers weekly. His issue was writing them as married couple which he tried to avoid as long as possible. His stalling resulted in the delayed wedding and the Castle mythology.  I don’t believe that writing Caskett as a married couple in the long term was ever part of Marlowe’s plan, but rather he left the story in a good place in the S7 finale for others to go forward.

Things must be bad because I'm starting to think kindly of Marlowe in that I'd like to believe he would not have gone down this path if he was still in charge but then may be that's me being a naive fool which is entirely possible.

 

Marlowe's writing had got stale and predictable so I'm not sad he's gone on that score but Castle and Beckett were based on him and his wife and I always thought that ultimately when push came to shove they would never do anything like splitting the characters up or making Kate look like utter crap but then again...they gave me Watershed and Rogan so maybe it is a case of very wishful thinking. 

 

I'll give him credit where it's due though, if the show does crash in flames this season and the finger pointing starts Hawley and Winter only have themselves to blame because MilMar gave them a good starting point to work from in 7.23 and they threw it all away from the start. 

Edited October 22, 2015 by verdana