Giles

[Lisin]

Here's your place to talk about this character. If you have a fun name for it let me know in the comments and I can change it.

[buffyjunkie]

I didn't find a separate thread for the actors but I just saw Anthony Head in the movie Imagine Me & You playing a bumbling father. He did have one of the best lines in the movie.

[Jazzy24]

I have always loved Giles from the very beginning and forever. He was great with Buffy

[Loandbehold]

I saw this on the previously.tv twitter feed. It seems that Giles occasionally imbibed some alcohol as well as being sent off to sleep against his wishes. http://www.pajiba.com/miscellaneous/giles-gets-knocked-down-but-he-getsknocked-down-again.php

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 7:21 PM, Dobian said:

Giles is my favorite.  He was the anchor for those kids and he had the greatest quips. "Well, no. I wasn't actually one of the original members of Pink Floyd, but... About the monster stuff, yes".  And I'll never get the image of him wearing a sombrero out of my head.  He was great.

It's an interesting dynamic, Giles is a father figure and has a mentor role but he doesn't dominate them, they're not constantly running to him to save them. Guffy fantasists aside (and I've also read a few Gillow fics in my time) I always think that the Scoobs are a great gift to Giles, a single man who has put his work before family and now he finds himself surrounded by a bevvy of adoring daughters and one wayward son. 

On ‎01‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 7:34 PM, KittenPokerCheater said:

I'm so very, very sad that Ripper never happened.  Giles was awesome.

Might not be too late? If they're rebooting the show maybe they'll have a trip to the UK?

[Dee]

Giles & Xander's relationship could be referred to in many ways, but Father & Son is definitely not one of them .

Edited July 29, 2018 by Dee

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:50 PM, Dee said:

Giles & Xander's relationship could be referred to in many ways, but Father & Son is definitely not one of them .

I don't know, think of the scene in Restless where Giles on the swing comments that Spike is like a son to him and Xander says 'I used to want that job'?

[illdoc]

2 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Giles on the swing comments that Spike is like a son to him and Xander says 'I used to want that job'?

You skipped the line in between. After Giles says "He's (Spike) like a son", Spike says "He's (Giles) teaching me to be a Watcher". That's when Xander says "I used to want that". He's talking about the "Watcher" part, not the "Son" part.

[Loandbehold]

Giles was often annoyed by Xander, but they did have their moments. Most notably at the end of The Pack when Giles tells Xander that he couldn't find anything about the spell causing someone to lose their memory, but that Xander's secret is safe with him. There were some other times - he counsels Xander at the party when Xander and Anya announce their engagement. They also bonded at Xander's house in Season 4. I'm sure there were a few other moments.

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, illdoc said:

You skipped the line in between. After Giles says "He's (Spike) like a son", Spike says "He's (Giles) teaching me to be a Watcher". That's when Xander says "I used to want that". He's talking about the "Watcher" part, not the "Son" part.

Did he? Do we know for sure?

[Joe Hellandback]

19 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I feel like Giles was more annoyed by Xander than he was by either Willow or Buffy.  Come to think of it, there is actually not a lot of meaningful interaction between him and Xander. I don't remember a scene in which they bonded or expressed genuine emotion towards each other. Giles was also annoyed by Anya, but they at least had this very sweet scene in "Grave", where she embraces him.

 

I'd say Giles was only a father figure to Buffy though, his relationship with the other Scoobies was very different. 

How about hunting Harmony together in

Spoiler

The Initiative? Also how about Giles and Anya seeking the information together in s7? Remember Willow actually refers to him as daddy in s6 and they have that time at his house together in s7? 

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎03‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 10:36 PM, buffyjunkie said:

I didn't find a separate thread for the actors but I just saw Anthony Head in the movie Imagine Me & You playing a bumbling father. He did have one of the best lines in the movie.

He's really become one of the great British character actors, saw him on the stage in 'Otherwise Engaged' and again he has the best line in the play. 

On ‎03‎/‎08‎/‎2014 at 11:11 PM, Jazzy24 said:

I have always loved Giles from the very beginning and forever. He was great with Buffy

Loved him from that moment in WTTH where Buffy spots the vamp and he objects 'But you didn't hone', just perfect. 

On ‎12‎/‎09‎/‎2014 at 6:30 PM, Loandbehold said:

I saw this on the previously.tv twitter feed. It seems that Giles occasionally imbibed some alcohol as well as being sent off to sleep against his wishes. http://www.pajiba.com/miscellaneous/giles-gets-knocked-down-but-he-getsknocked-down-again.php

He is basically a phrenologist's dream. 

[Joe Hellandback]

I love Giles, he is that stuffy authority figure/Basil Exposition who in a normal horror film would get offed pretty quickly (the Scoobs are essentially the cliched victims of any horror film, sexy blonde, helpless nerd, wisecracking smartass, jock, bitchy head cheerleader etc). You also have to think of this is all a great gift to him, a man who dedicated his life to his work, giving up any hope of marriage and family but then has this wonderful set of surrogate daughters presented to him.

[lembergwatcher]

Always had a mixed feeling considering Rupert G. His job wasn't any less tough than the Slayer's and he always treated Buffy like a human being, not mere instrument in the fight. He really cared for her (Giles worst nightmare being the death of the Slayer, as we learn from S01.E10, speaks volumes I guess). Giles tried his best to be his Slayer's friend and confidant, not just some stuffy Watcher guy and it can only be appreciated (thereby both of them realizing he betrayed Buffy's trust in Helpless was a truly painful moment). OTOH him delving more and more deeply into the whole father-daughter thing with Buffy (which grew stronger after he was stripped of his job in the Council) wasn't always good in the long run.

When I watched the series for the very first time it was kinda striking to me that the 40-plus something-years old obviously single librarian constantly hanged around in the company of teenagers, who might easily be his own kids age-wise, and nobody at SHS seemed to notice (not even Principal Snyder, the control freak). At school with lots of weird stuff happening on almost daily basis (the school newspaper even had an obituary column as we've learned from Earshot) located in the heart of town with one of the highest death rates across the US of A, in the town where too many people just disappeared without a trace, such carelesness on the part of the school authorities was strange at best. Yeah, we, the viewers, knew G-Man was a nice guy, but Sunnydale residents of all people should have known things weren't always what they seemed.


He was the man of contradictions. Shy stuttering librarian on one side of the coin, the ruthless and dangerous Ripper-type on the other. A thing that definitely added some depth to the character IMO.

Normally Giles was modest, well mannered, educated, competent, witty, occassionally funny and always ready to give a helping hand (well, except those few times when he was drunk). Remember, even after turning into a grotesque teenage 'Ripper' version of himself and acting recklessly in Band Candy he was still there to help. But above all he was humane (and that I liked). As we know, Giles wasn't just the oldest and most experienced guy in the gang, he made attempts to become some sort of surrogate father to the younger Scoobs, none of whom had a real father at home - though with varying degrees of success (he loved Buffy and Willow like his own children, while Xander remained the least loved "son" and G-Man himself didn't know what to do about Faith). Therefore him leaving SunnyD and the gang at the least appropriate time (at the beginning of the season 6) was something unGiles-y, you know.


What I didn't like about Rupert Giles was his aptitude to give Buffy who couldn't always see straight, a free hand on many occassions. Or him acting hesitantly/turning a blind eye when he should  exercise his authority, leaving it to Buffy to decide despite her being obviously biased (that rule had few exceptions though as can be seen in Revelations, The Yoko Factor, The Gift, Lies My Parents Told Me or Empty Places). His blind loyalty to Buffy in taking it out on Jenny (his own love interest!) at the beginning of Angelus crisis was plain wrong. Giles of all people could show the poor woman more understanding since his own dark secrets nearly got the beautiful computer teacher killed a few episodes earlier. And I will never understand how could he go from "We are clearly demonstrating that we are not together on this!" in Empty Places to "I think it's bloody brilliant" regarding Buffy's stupid plan in Chosen that soon? Also I hated Giles for raising voice or showing disregard for, say, Xander (I, Robot...You, Jane, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, Becoming, Part 1, Beauty and the Beasts, Doppelgangland, All the Way), and chickening out when it came to his protege Willow.

Their dialogue in Flooded was priceless:

Quote

GILES: You're a very stupid girl.

WILLOW: What? Giles...
GILES: Do you have any idea what you've done? The forces you've harnessed, the lines you've crossed?
WILLOW: I thought you'd be ... impressed, or, or something.
GILES: Oh, don't worry, you've ... made a very deep impression. Of everyone here ... you were the one I trusted most to respect the forces of nature.
WILLOW: Are you saying you don't trust me?
GILES: Think what you've done to Buffy.
WILLOW: I brought her back!
GILES: At incredible risk!
WILLOW: Risk? Of what? Making her deader?
GILES: Of killing us all. Unleashing hell on Earth, I mean, shall I go on?
WILLOW: No! Giles, I did what I had to do. I did what nobody else could do.
GILES: Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them.
WILLOW: No, probably not, but ... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy. I brought Buffy back into this world, a-and maybe the word you should be looking for is "congratulations."
GILES: Having Buffy back in the world makes me feel ... indescribably wonderful, but I wouldn't congratulate you if you jumped off a cliff and happened to survive.
WILLOW: That's not what I did, Giles.
GILES: You were lucky.
WILLOW: I wasn't lucky. I was amazing. And how would you know? You weren't even there.
GILES: If I had been, I'd have bloody well stopped you. The magicks you channeled are more ferocious and primal than anything you can hope to understand, (even more angry) and you are lucky to be alive, you rank, arrogant amateur!

WILLOW: You're right. The magicks I used are very powerful. I'm very powerful. And maybe it's not such a good idea for you to piss me off. (Giles stares at her, then looks away). Come on, Giles, I-I don't want to fight. I ... Let's not, okay? I'll think about what you said, and you ... try to be happy Buffy's back.
GILES: We still don't know where she was ... or what happened to her.

"You're a very stupid girl"? "Rank, arrogant amateur", huh? That the best you can do, Rupert? I expected better of you than that. Why not come closer and give the stupid girl that signature ripperish glare - same as you gave Spike in I Was Made to Love You?

 

Or grab her and shove her back as you did to Snyder in Dead Man's Party? At least Snyder didn't invoke deadly magic while abusing his power as Principal. It was OK to tell Xander "Get out of my sight!" in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, but you wanna play nice with your favorite baby girl even if her fuck-up turned out to be much worse? Such a cool Ripper you are? Coward.

Anyway, Giles had his ups and downs - just like any other main protagonist. You could totally love him on one occassion and absolutely hate on the other. And ASH's acting made him one of the most interesting and key characters in the whole Buffyverse.

Edited September 3, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[Halting Hex]

Yes, it was so cool how Giles tore Willow a new one for violating the "rules" of magic.  Because, you know, Giles would never do that.  The Zeppo?  That was an hallucination.  Primeval? Never happened.  We should all listen to Spike about how "Magic always has consequences", because Spike is so fucking wise.

And Willow's "a very stupid girl" because she took a risk to rescue a friend.  Which is how the Scooby Gang formed, in the first place, to save Jesse in The Harvest.  Now I grant you it was stupid of Willow to risk an apocalypse because she wanted to save Buffy's life.  Just like that time she wanted to leave Buffy behind in Prophecy Girl and face the Master armed only with a machete…oh, wait, that was someone else.

Fucking hypocrite.  God, I hate Flooded.  (And let's not forget, while Giles is busy being an asshole to Willow in the kitchen, Buffy's on the back porch, giggling at Spike's "jokes" about murdering her family and friends.  Because Spike would never do that.  Lovers Walk?  That's another episode that doesn't exist.  [Poor Dan Vebber, all his works gone.  I wonder if he actually exists, or if he's just a figment of our collective imagination?])  There's a relatively small proportion of "oh, fuck you, Giles" lines throughout the series, from "No, no, [Angel's] good now" to "I'm almost certain not.  But, to be fair, I wasn't listening", but that scene takes the "up yours, Brit boy" cake.

JMO.

[lembergwatcher]

Well, magic had consequences. In Sunnydale at least :). And if I remember everything correctly, not checking the "Urn of Osiris" for "Made in Taiwan/China/Russia" labels before starting the whole "Let's bring Buffy back" ritual didn't end well (slaughtered Potentials and ruins of Sunnydale as confirmation). But I don't like Flooded either.

Right now I'm not going to judge who was right and who was wrong or who was a bigger asshole/hypocrite at that particular moment. What left me stunned when I saw that scene between Giles and Willow for the first time was Brit boy's response to Willow's threats. If that was such a fundamental question to him and lives of Buffy and everyone else were at stake, Giles should have reacted a bit different, I think. I mean if he knew he was right he should have acted in a more Ripper-ish way ('cause everything was very serious according to Giles himself). OTOH there was no way he could let Willow bully him. Giles being an asshole to the wicca was no excuse for making threats on her part.

But probably because it was Willow standing at the opposite side of the kitchen at the moment and not someone else, he backed away with his tail between his legs and everything ended with lame verbal admonition (no "Get out of my sight!" or some ripperish antics). Because if Rupert really wanted to tear Willow a new one for her magic use, he should have remembered he was partly responsible too.
 

[Halting Hex]

Also, in the realm of practical politics, Giles should remember that this sort of confrontation is the least likely way to get Willow to listen.  Which he really ought to know, given that out of all the kids, Willow is the one he's known the longest.  (Since before the pilot, even.)

Well, maybe he left his brains behind in England.  That's the only reason I can think of that he vetoes Willow's suggestion of doing a locator spell to find the Trio later in the episode.  I mean, if it's so dangerous for Willow to be doing "too much" magic, then have the other witch do it.  

Or do it yourself, Eyghon boy.

Or have Anya (who's been casting spells for 1100 years) do it.

Or Buffy, who did the Cloutier trance.  Or Spike, who invoked Elligor.  Or Dawn, who's made of magic and probably has a natural aptitude for it.

But hey!  We probably don't need to find the Trio, I'm sure they're harmless.

(RIP Katrina…and Tara…and Warren*…and Rack…and, nearly, the world)

Spoiler

Yeah, you know why that asterisk is there.  I'm still not counting them, though.

[Joe Hellandback]

19 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Always had a mixed feeling considering Rupert G. His job wasn't any less tough than the Slayer's and he always treated Buffy like a human being, not mere instrument in the fight. He really cared for her (Giles worst nightmare being the death of the Slayer, as we learn from S01.E10, speaks volumes I guess). Giles tried his best to be his Slayer's friend and confidant, not just some stuffy Watcher guy and it can only be appreciated (thereby both of them realizing he betrayed Buffy's trust in Helpless was a truly painful moment). OTOH him delving more and more deeply into the whole father-daughter thing with Buffy (which grew stronger after he was stripped of his job in the Council) wasn't always good in the long run.

When I watched the series for the very first time it was kinda striking to me that the 40-plus something-years old obviously single librarian constantly hanged around in the company of teenagers, who might easily be his own kids age-wise, and nobody at SHS seemed to notice (not even Principal Snyder, the control freak). At school with lots of weird stuff happening on almost daily basis (the school newspaper even had an obituary column as we've learned from Earshot) located in the heart of town with one of the highest death rates across the US of A, in the town where too many people just disappeared without a trace, such carelesness on the part of the school authorities was strange at best. Yeah, we, the viewers, knew G-Man was a nice guy, but Sunnydale residents of all people should have known things weren't always what they seemed.


He was the man of contradictions. Shy stuttering librarian on one side of the coin, the ruthless and dangerous Ripper-type on the other. A thing that definitely added some depth to the character IMO.

Normally Giles was modest, well mannered, educated, competent, witty, occassionally funny and always ready to give a helping hand (well, except those few times when he was drunk). Remember, even after turning into a grotesque teenage 'Ripper' version of himself and acting recklessly in Band Candy he was still there to help. But above all he was humane (and that I liked). As we know, Giles wasn't just the oldest and most experienced guy in the gang, he made attempts to become some sort of surrogate father to the younger Scoobs, none of whom had a real father at home - though with varying degrees of success (he loved Buffy and Willow like his own children, while Xander remained the least loved "son" and G-Man himself didn't know what to do about Faith). Therefore him leaving SunnyD and the gang at the least appropriate time (at the beginning of the season 6) was something unGiles-y, you know.


What I didn't like about Rupert Giles was his aptitude to give Buffy who couldn't always see straight, a free hand on many occassions. Or him acting hesitantly/turning a blind eye when he should  exercise his authority, leaving it to Buffy to decide despite her being obviously biased (that rule had few exceptions though as can be seen in Revelations, The Yoko Factor, The Gift, Lies My Parents Told Me or Empty Places). His blind loyalty to Buffy in taking it out on Jenny (his own love interest!) at the beginning of Angelus crisis was plain wrong. Giles of all people could show the poor woman more understanding since his own dark secrets nearly got the beautiful computer teacher killed a few episodes earlier. And I will never understand how could he go from "We are clearly demonstrating that we are not together on this!" in Empty Places to "I think it's bloody brilliant" regarding Buffy's stupid plan in Chosen that soon? Also I hated Giles for raising voice or showing disregard for, say, Xander (I, Robot...You, Jane, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, Becoming, Part 1, Beauty and the Beasts, Doppelgangland, All the Way), and chickening out when it came to his protege Willow.

Their dialogue in Flooded was priceless:

"You're a very stupid girl"? "Rank, arrogant amateur", huh? That the best you can do, Rupert? I expected better of you than that. Why not come closer and give the stupid girl that signature ripperish glare - same as you gave Spike in I Was Made to Love You?

 

Or grab her and shove her back as you did to Snyder in Dead Man's Party? At least Snyder didn't invoke deadly magic while abusing his power as Principal. It was OK to tell Xander "Get out of my sight!" in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered, but you wanna play nice with your favorite baby girl even if her fuck-up turned out to be much worse? Such a cool Ripper you are? Coward.

Anyway, Giles had his ups and downs - just like any other main protagonist. You could totally love him on one occassion and absolutely hate on the other. And ASH's acting made him one of the most interesting and key characters in the whole Buffyverse.

Yes, Buffy was essentially the ephebophile's dream show until Glee came along, handsome older man Rupert surrounded by adoring nubile hotties, Dawn even comes along as the rest hit their 20s. Denial is big in SD but especially with Joyce when Giles even comes to visit Buffy in her bedroom in Inca Mummy Girl. But magic and self delusion I suppose. 

 I think Watcher's care for their charges, that's inevitable, Giles comments that after the Slayer's die they're heartbroken. 

[lembergwatcher]

10 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Also, in the realm of practical politics, Giles should remember that this sort of confrontation is the least likely way to get Willow to listen.  Which he really ought to know, given that out of all the kids, Willow is the one he's known the longest.

It took them four years to come from this:

to this:

Edited September 4, 2018 by lembergwatcher

[lembergwatcher]

Some thoughts I agree with: https://www.tumblr.com/search/anti giles

Quote

You know, once upon a time I loved Giles. I thought he was awesome, this slightly out-of-touch father figure to the Scoobies, their Papa Wolf as it were. However, in recent years I’ve come to the conclusion that Giles actually kind of sucks when it comes to anyone who isn’t Buffy (and even with Buffy he drops the ball majorly in Season 6). Far from being a guiding hand, a trusted elder the Scoobies can turn to in times of crises, he’s actually a somewhat ambivalent figurehead who dishes out warnings and lectures but never actually takes the time to work with, advise or teach the Scoobies (again, Buffy being the exception).

Take, for example, when Willow first starts experimenting with magic. Giles constantly warns her about the dangers involved but does little to help, guide or supervise her. We know he has connections in England with Covens and that he himself has dabbled in magic, yet he simply berates Willow for her recklessness, instead of taking the time to train her or, at the very least, send her to someone who can offer her guidance. Now, I’m not laying the blame for Willow’s abuse of magic at Giles’ feet, Willow must take responsibility for her own actions, I’m just saying that with a bit of guidance she may have better learned how to harness the power she has within her.

Then there’s poor Faith, who turns up Watcher-less and clearly in need of guidance and support. Does she receive it from Giles? Not even in the slightest. He leaves her living in a shit-hole of a motel, never inquires as to her well-being and doesn’t even offer to train or guide her alongside Buffy.

But my biggest annoyance with Giles and his attitude and behaviour towards Scoobies who aren’t Buffy comes from his treatment of Xander, and the utter lack of respect and pure disdain he constantly shows towards him, even when Xander isn’t deserving of it. This is made even sadder when one realises that Xander partially looks to Giles as a father figure.

It’s no secret (and yet is constantly overlooked by the fandom) that Xander’s father is emotionally and probably physically abusive, and as such, Xander looks for fatherly guidance outside of the family home. Rejected and abused by his own father, there is evidence that he views Giles as a stand-in father figure, shown in small ways, such as Xander making sure that the pastry shop includes jelly donuts in their order (Giles’ favourite), his hanging around with Giles in Season 4 when both disconnect from Buffy and Willow, and his comment in his dream in Restless when Giles says that Spike is like a son to him “Yeah, I was into that for a while”.

Xander’s looking up to and viewing Giles in this way is made quite sad when one takes into consideration the fact that Giles is often very hard and disdainful towards Xander, often treating him much harsher than he does other characters. Take, for example, the episode Beauty and the Beasts, where Giles goes off his head at Xander for falling asleep while on Oz-watch, but when Buffy falls asleep on the night of the full moon when Oz is at his most dangerous, Giles just gently wakes her up and doesn’t tell her off at all. Or in Passion, when Xander and Buffy both  “boil a complex thought down to its simplest possible form” and only Xander gets snarked at by Giles. And then there’s Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered where Giles – who used to use magic to summon a demon to get high off – rips into Xander for casting the love spell (not to mention he acts as if Xander deliberately cast the spell on all the women of Sunnydale, when it was actually only meant for Cordy).

I just find it so sad that Xander is rejected by not only his actual father but his surrogate father figure as well. It’s really no wonder Xander has so many issues which affect his personality, as he has never truly had a strong, stable parent to look up to. I really feel like Giles could have been better in regards to all the Scoobies, but Xander in particular as, of all of the Scoobies, he is the one most in need of a stable parent/parental figure.

Of course, Rupert's defenders might say he has no obligations to be Xander's surrogate daddy. That's true. He does have obligations towards Buffy, Faith and Willow (and he fails miserably with all three of them), but not our Zeppo boy. OTOH, pardon my naïveté, but even if I agree that Giles doesn't owe Xander any parental guidance, I still think Tweed Boy owes Xander some sort of respect. He may not like Xander personally, but he should recognize the guy's input to the cause and treat him accordingly. JMO though.