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Season 6 Speculation WITH Spoilers (UK)

ichbin

By ichbin
in Downton Abbey [V]

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Andorra

Andorra

Honestly? For me it is too late to make any love story compelling except for Tom/Mary. They clearly missed the chance to build a nice relationship for both characters except with each other and I really have no idea why. They had 3 seasons, after all! Plenty of time to have new characters join the show and have a slow and believable romantic storyline. 

 

Instead they threw 4! suitors at Mary and they were all the same or boring. I don't see the enough difference in Gillingham, Blake and Henry and none of them had any resemblance to Matthew. They should have brought in a character who was similar instead of bringing in three who where different. Gillingham was creepily needy and Blake and Henry are so much like Mary, that their conversations are slightly amusing, but there is just no romance in it when both participants in a flirt are so aloof and give the impression not to care. If none of THEM care, why would the audience?

 

With Matthew it was clear from the start, that he was attracted to Mary and really cared for her. It was obvious that he saw something different behind her cool surface. Mary was aloof then, too, but we could feel that she wasn't. Now it's just sparring, but there's no spark and no feeling behind it. 

 

And for Tom? I really, really don't understand Fellows. Among the upstairs characters, he was the first to get widowed. He was the only male and he was clearly looking for love. And it looks like he will be the only one not finding it? Why? 

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MissLucas
MissLucas

There was talk about a  funeral. I think it should be for Sir Julian's Oscar.

rudystx01
rudystx01

Edith as Mary's bully. I think I have heard it all now.

hafo
hafo

TOM THEORIES   1. Eager to begin his future as matchmaker/wedding planner, Tom is desperate for Henry and Mary to tie the knot. The most illustrious match of his career hangs in the balance, and if

hafo

hafo

Henry is basically a prop.

 

I think you're right. I expect Robert will die and that will be the drama of Mary's story this season.

 

And I agree they would have a hard act to follow as far as a real compelling romance for Mary, so if they can write Mary/Downton well I will probably be happy.

 

(Still going to be waving my little flag over here on the HMS Brary Unlikely ;P)

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Eolivet

Eolivet

I missed these the first time through the thread, but I still am skeptical about them relating to Mary/Tom:

 

- Violet's: "Mary needs more than a handsome smile and a hand on a gear stick."

 

See, this I interpreted as a comment about Henry's prospects, not Henry as a person. This was said right after they found out he's 40th in line to inherit. Since Lady Shackleton brought Henry there to potentially be another suitor for Mary, I think Violet was letting her know that Mary's other suitors have been extremely rich and/or in line for a title (even Blake had a Matthew-like "third cousin to the heir" backstory) and Henry is neither. I think it was Violet's way of being insulted on Mary's behalf.

 

- Mary's sudden "Sybil was such a better person than I am."

 

Which, to me, tied in to her dropping everything to help Anna -- driving to York to get the last train (when she was already in her nightclothes) and staying until the end of the week while Anna recovered (ignoring her own duties as the agent, which she loved). I interpreted that as previously, she'd been helping Anna at her convenience or when Anna seemed to really need it, but when she found out Sybil actively went out of her way to help Gwen, she was inspired to really be proactive in helping Anna -- to not take no for an answer, as Sybil didn't.

 

Given the promo for next week, I think we may see Mary's facade crack a little when it comes to Henry -- that the car racing will bother her, to the point that she starts either actively trying to sabotage what little relationship they have or just flat-out walks away. The one thing, to me, that had been missing with Gillingham and Blake is any vulnerability in Mary. She always seemed to be various stages of guarded and aloof (though more lustful with Gillingham and more quippy with Blake). The real test, to me, is if we see her get angry or upset with something Henry does -- which neither suitor ever moved her enough to do. That was the turning point with Matthew (when he walked out after 1x05 and the Strallan dinner party). I believe the next episode will be interesting in that respect.

MissLucas

MissLucas

One thing the show has hardly touched upon is the question of how eligible Lady Mary actually is. It has already been mentioned here that due to the War it was the surviving men who were (theoretically) in the stronger position on the marriage market.

 

Lady Mary also comes with some pretty heavy strings attached, her top priority is not finding an eligible bachelor but keeping Downton safe for George. She won't leave Downton, something a husband with an estate of his own would expect her to do (right after dropping George off to a public school ASAP). And I don't think she owns a great deal of money of her own - most of Lavinia's money is probably tied to the estate. Henry looks relatively well-off but racing requires a lot of money and since he's not in line to inherit I have to wonder if he would really be interested in someone like Mary.

 

(Obviously I'm cynic enough to ignore twu luv.)

ElizaD

ElizaD

It was mentioned that there would be a Mary/Edith fight. Could it be in episode 7 or 8 when some kind of tension, perhaps related to Robert's health, causes Mary to reveal that she's figured out the truth about Marigold?

 

Does anyone know the filming schedule, have they already filmed the Christmas special? If they have, that could be the episode with the spoiled Edith/Bertie wedding so that there's an upbeat ending after the death (whoever it turns out to be).

 

The one thing, to me, that had been missing with Gillingham and Blake is any vulnerability in Mary. She always seemed to be various stages of guarded and aloof (though more lustful with Gillingham and more quippy with Blake). The real test, to me, is if we see her get angry or upset with something Henry does -- which neither suitor ever moved her enough to do. That was the turning point with Matthew (when he walked out after 1x05 and the Strallan dinner party). I believe the next episode will be interesting in that respect.

 

I don't ship Mary/Tom, but she's let herself be vulnerable and honest with him in a way that she hasn't with any of her non-Matthew suitors. Though Henry is handsome, I'm starting to feel that the romance isn't being written well if it's meant to be a romance. Bertie's only had one more episode than Henry yet he and Edith seem much more natural with each other.

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Andorra

Andorra

Yes, the CS has been filmed already. 

 

There will be two weddings, one big wedding and one a bit smaller. My bet is on the big wedding for Edith/Bertie (since it is her first) and a small wedding for Mary and ? (I think Tom).

 

I'm getting more and more the feeling that Violet could be the one who is going to die. I think we will need an emotional Highlight and Violet's death certainly would be one. They said it will be tears and laughter in the end and the tears have to have reason.

 

The "romance" between Henry and Mary is not working, because they have almost no screentime together and if they have, Tom is with them!

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Eolivet

Eolivet

Ah, see my guess for the smaller wedding is Isobel/Merton. I don't think we see Mary married again, but I could be wrong.

 

I don't ship Mary/Tom, but she's let herself be vulnerable and honest with him in a way that she hasn't with any of her non-Matthew suitors. Though Henry is handsome, I'm starting to feel that the romance isn't being written well if it's meant to be a romance. Bertie's only had one more episode than Henry yet he and Edith seem much more natural with each other.

 

I don't know...I feel like there's a difference between honesty with your family and having someone you didn't consider impact your emotions. I haven't seen Mary be any more open with Tom than she is with, say, Carson. They are both people she trusts. I believe the irony of Mary has always been that she seems like she doesn't have a heart, but in truth, I think she'll move heaven and earth for the people she cares about. But to me, there's a difference between trusting someone and having someone affect you unexpectedly. Her feelings for Matthew knocked her back once she realized them, but outwardly, she did little more than smile and banter pleasantly in his presence. It was only in private that she got upset over him. I'm waiting for a similar revelation...with anyone.

saki

saki

(edited)

I agree that Talbot/Mary is not being written in a particularly compelling way - there isn't enough screentime with the two of them, they feel too similar to each other, both look a bit like vampires..  

 

But I don't think that necessarily equals Tom/Mary - I feel a little sorry for Julian Fellowes on that one.  I think he's going out of his way to make clear that it won't happen, with the "you're my brother" quote last episode and this episode an extended conversation about how perfect Sybil was for Tom (which given that a) she is Mary's sister and b) she and Mary were incredibly different from each other is a pretty strong indication) plus extended conversations about how Mary won't marry anyone who doesn't have money, plus Tom playing matchmaker...  And, after all of that, some people still ship it!  I'm not sure there is anything that Fellowes can do to shut it down.

 

For me, personally, it wouldn't be satisfying.  I think they have been portrayed as close friends but in a more sibling way than romantically and I don't think they would be a great fit - for me, Tom needs someone who is more interested in the outside world, a more radical person, and Mary needs someone whose heart is really in maintaining the estate and entrenching the family's privilege.

 

I'm not sure that Mary will end the show married - I think she might end up either with a more ambiguous ending where she's being more proactive and pursuing what/who she wants but it's not clear how that will go or deciding that she wants to stay single and focus on the estate.

 

I am wondering whether Mary will tell Bertie about Marigold...

Edited by saki
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Andorra

Andorra

Yes, yes, poor Julian Fellows. The audience just doesn't understand him!

 

And he tries so hard! He writes one scene after the next where Tom and Mary talk about love and how a relationship should be and how their life should be and why in heaven does the audience not understand that they're just talking about OTHER people and not about each other? The have more screentime together than any other two people on the show, how is it possible the audience thinks that would mean something?

 

He could, of course, just write a few scenes more for Mary and Talbot instead for Mary and Tom and, of course he could have long introduced a love interest for Tom instead of having him in every single scene with Mary, even if she goes on a date with her supposed love interest, but that might be too easy. 

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saki

saki

Yes, yes, poor Julian Fellows. The audience just doesn't understand him!

 

And he tries so hard! He writes one scene after the next where Tom and Mary talk about love and how a relationship should be and how their life should be and why in heaven does the audience not understand that they're just talking about OTHER people and not about each other? The have more screentime together than any other two people on the show, how is it possible the audience thinks that would mean something?

 

He could, of course, just write a few scenes more for Mary and Talbot instead for Mary and Tom and, of course he could have long introduced a love interest for Tom instead of having him in every single scene with Mary, even if she goes on a date with her supposed love interest, but that might be too easy. 

 

There are lots of characters who get lots of screentime together - Isobel/Violet, Daisy/Mrs Patmore, Anna/Mary, Spratt/Dencker - at least as much as Tom/Mary so I think that it's a massive exaggeration to suggest that the show is the Tom and Mary hour.  I lack the enthusiasm to count minutes but I don't think they do get more screentime together than any other two characters.

 

I also don't see how  things like "I really want money in a potential partner" when the person you're talking to has none or "I really loved your sister" are foreshadowing a romance.  Can you give an example of something one could say to the other that would put you off the ship?  That's what I mean when I say I feel for Fellowes because I don't think there is a whole lot.  If "you're my brother" doesn't do it...

 

I think the main reason Tom doesn't have a love interest is that JF just isn't that interested in giving Tom one - I think it's like asking why Mrs Patmore doesn't have one or why Thomas doesn't have one.  I am wondering if JF has just decided that he'd rather sketch in Talbot/Mary and leave more to the imagination, given the lack of time that the show has left.

 

Or, in short, what I said above - I don't think Talbot/Mary not being that compelling has to equal Tom/Mary.  For me, that has not only not been compelling, I think the writer is doing his level best to tell us that it's not happening.

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Andorra

Andorra

Well you can just count the amount of scenes. Tom and Mary had 4 scenes alone together. Just the two of them in the last episode. In the episode before that they had 2. Talbot and Mary had one scene in episode 4 and 0 scenes in the last episode. 

 

There is no need to put Tom and Mary in scenes all the time. Why had Tom to be present in Mary's and Talbot's date? Why didn't she talk to Talbot about her distate for car racing. Why didn't she talk to Talbot about "not wanting to marry down"? Julian Fellows is not trying to show people that this ship couldn't work. In the contrary, he is playing with the audience. Maybe he is misleading us, maybe not. Even the press is catching up on it. The guardian wrote this week: 

 

 

 

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this whole programme is just one big jumble of subplots. But the scene with Branson and Lady Mary discussing his marriage to Sybil was sweet and promising. We should have more of this sort of thing, Uncle Julian. This is the last series and we need to get some sort of indication of circularity. Why have we all been led down this path for five long years and what does it all mean? What have we been building up to? There must be some method in the madness. (I know. I know. There isn’t.)
If it’s all building up to Mary falling in love with Tom, then perhaps there is a God somewhere

 

You could see in Mary's face, that she was impressed with what he said about equality in marriage. That it doesn't have to be about position or money, but about sharing the same values, having the same goals. That is what he had with Sybil and it is also what she had with Matthew and her face showed that she realized it. If Talbot was the one, their difference in status or money wouldn't be a problem any more after that little speech from Tom.

 

And there IS a difference in giving Mrs Patmore a love interest or giving Tom one. I'm sure nearly everyone in the audience will agree with me here. We have seen Tom going through hell after Sybil died. He is a young, handsome man of barely 35 years and a romantic at heart. In real life there would have been plenty of women lining up for him no matter of his working class origins. He has also said that he is ready to find love again. Allen Leech, as well as the audience, have also always said that a happy ending for Tom should be him finding love again.

 

It's not as if Julian Fellows finds better things for Tom, like a career in politics or journalism or even having him get rich through cars! All Tom does is showing his good heart and supporting Mary. And there must be a reason for it!

 

At least there is a little bit hope for those who hate the thought of Brary: I think the editor must have some function in the story. Throwing in the scene with a pretty, modern woman for no reason would make no sense if she wouldn't reappear. She will reappear in episode 7 and maybe Tom will take his own advice and be very quick and forward once he meets her. 

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MissLucas

MissLucas

What's all this talk about Mrs Patmore not having a love-interest. Of course she does. There were plenty of anvils flying around the kitchen/living room of Yew Tree farm. Later in the DA kitchen Daisy makes a joke to Mrs Hughes about Mrs Patmore being jealous of her marital status and Mrs Patmore replies 'Well, maybe I am' in such a tone that even Daisy knew it was time to shut up.

A couple of characters will end up single: Rosamund, Thomas, Violet and maybe Isobel - but Mrs Patmore won't be one of them.

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Kirsty

Kirsty

(edited)

saki, I totally see your point. And at this stage, no, I can't think of anything Tom and Mary could say to each other to convince me a romance is off the table. Dialogue, especially between the two characters involved, is the wrong way to go about convincing anyone. If the writer wants to indicate that he's not planning to put them together romantically, then he should start showing us instead of trying to tell us.

 

I think the writer is doing his level best to tell us that it's not happening.

 

Then respectfully, the writer's best isn't very good. It's the final season of a period soap. If he doesn't want viewers to see Tom and Mary as a pair, he needs to stop making a pair of them, and start pairing them off with other characters, platonically and romantically.

 

 

I think the main reason Tom doesn't have a love interest is that JF just isn't that interested in giving Tom one - I think it's like asking why Mrs Patmore doesn't have one or why Thomas doesn't have one.

 

This may well be the case. But unlike you I have no sympathy for JF on this one. A Mary/Tom romance offers wonderful potential for drama and so far the writer has wasted it. If it's even happening, it will all take place at the last minute. If it had happened over the course of the last two seasons, it could have breathed new life into the show.

 

I honestly can't tell what JF is trying to accomplish with the Tom/Mary scenes. I don't know if saki is right, and the writer is trying to use their scenes to insist that they are like brother and sister, only he's not a very good writer, so the viewers are receiving the opposite message instead!

 

Or maybe Andorra is on the money, and the reason Tom is getting so much screentime with Mary since his return is because the show is patiently building their happy ever after together. If this is true, then the romantic relationship it most resembles on the show (in terms of plotting) is Mrs. Hughes/Carson. A couple of good friends with a great deal of respect and admiration for each other, Carson and Hughes didn't demonstrate any passion for each other until pretty late in the day. For me, it was a pairing of convenience for the show, instead of a sweeping romance. That's not what I would prefer for Mary/Tom, but there's not much time left for passion or sweeping romance.

Edited by Kirsty
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hafo

hafo

(edited)

I also don't see how  things like "I really want money in a potential partner" when the person you're talking to has none or "I really loved your sister" are foreshadowing a romance.  Can you give an example of something one could say to the other that would put you off the ship?  That's what I mean when I say I feel for Fellowes because I don't think there is a whole lot.  If "you're my brother" doesn't do it...

 

Some people have watched the show and inferred from the writing, direction and acting the potential for a romance between Tom and Mary. It's not like there is an angry mob of Brary shippers ready to break down Fellowes' door if they don't end up together. I can understand why some people don't see it or like it, but I don't think those of us who do see it and like it are making it up.

 

For example, the conversation you referenced: while you could interpret it as a conversation about Tom and Sybil and Mary's strict requirements, I took it as foreshadowing Mary "marrying down" but to someone she considers her equal. That could refer to Henry but so far we don't know enough about him to know if he is Mary's 'equal' in the way that Tom means it. We know almost nothing about his deeper personality or his values. Then we have a conversation between Anna and Bates where Anna expresses her opinion that Henry is not the one and that Mary needs someone who can pull his weight as a partner in her life at the Abbey. Tom, a former chauffeur whom Mary considers her equal in business and friendship, is doing exactly that.

 

I do want Mary and Tom together but I'll be the first to say it may not happen. However, most of us who want it to happen are following our honest interpretations of the narrative direction itself, not a desire to see Mary and Tom stick their tongues down each others' throats no matter what. I don't understand why Fellowes would see the need to put people "off the ship". Nothing is being forced on him.

Edited by hafo
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Andorra

Andorra

(edited)

The synopsis and the cast list for episode 7 are out:

 

Summary one (from the itv Website):

 

The family face a shocking turn of events at Brooklands racetrack, while Molesley and Daisy are put to the test.

 

 

Summary 2 ( from radiotimes):

 

The Crawleys watch Henry compete in a motor racing event, an occasion that leaves Mary reeling. Violet hatches a plan which surprises the family and delights Miss Denker, and learns more about Amelia's intentions in befriending Isobel. Molesley and Daisy rise to the challenges of examination day, Andy's secret is brought to light, Thomas feels isolated, and Mrs Patmore and Mrs Hughes teach Carson a lesson.

 

 

Evelyn Napier is not in episode 7 so I think that will put the theory to rest that he will be Mary's surprising endgame. I think his appearance in episode 6 will be like Gwen's: A Goodbye scene for a well liked character.

 

I'm very curious what the "shock to the family" will be. If Talbot has an accident it wouldn't be a shock for the family. it would maybe be a shock for Mary, but the rest of the Crawleys barely know him!

 

Now I wonder it Tom is going to drive the car and has a "near miss"? We know he's alive and well in the CS, since we had lots of pictures that saw him filming, so it can't be something very dangerous, but if he had an accident, it would certainly shock the family and bring up all the feelings Mary had about Matthew's accident. 

 

AND it could be the trigger for her to realize that her feelings for Tom run deeper than she thought. Yet another point into the "Brary" direction. 

Edited by Andorra
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MissLucas

MissLucas

(edited)

Since they made such a big deal of Tom's enthusiasm for racing cars the last few episodes and they mention the family being affected it seems plausible that the scare at the racetracks involves Tom. And yes, that could be the perfect trigger for Brary.

 

Can't wait to see Mrs Hughes and Mrs Patmore conspiring against Mr Carson. I love those two together and in my little alternative version of DA they set up their own Bed & Breakfast after retirement providing us with a glorious spin-off.

Edited by MissLucas
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Avaleigh

Avaleigh

I hope you guys are right about the accident possibly being a trigger for Tom/Mary.

Never in a thousand years would I have predicted I'd want a Tom/Mary pairing in order to close out the series if you'd asked me back in seasons 1-3 but somewhere towards the end of season 4 I began to entertain the possibility of it happening and I've been kind of shipping them a bit ever since.

Seeing Tom interact with Neville Chamberlain made me think about how much better he is at making small talk with people when it used to be more of a struggle for him. I think he's become the sort of man who most visitors wouldn't guess for a moment that he'd started out working in family's garage.

Edith being the marchioness because of true love and Mary getting Downton and Tom seems fair to me and a nice way to wrap things up.

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Andorra

Andorra

I'm sure the Anti-Braries will be happy about this Sunday's episode, because I BET that Henry/Mary will look like a sure thing this week. I bet we will see a kiss and everyone will see plain sailing in the future.

 

But then Episode 7 will change everything. It will be the "U-Turn" for Mary and the "dark place" that Michelle talked about. 

 

Maybe Laura Edmunds will be the one the Anti-Braries can hope for? The love interest for Tom that will keep him away from Mary? LOL. I don't see what else could be her function except maybe blackmailing Edith. But blackmail again??

Andorra

Andorra

The real question is what happens to Tom? He marries Mary and takes his place as a loyal English landowner who values Downton above all, or what else?

 

The editor Edith hired last episode is the last chance for that not to happen. She won't be in episode 6, but she will be back in episode 7. Maybe Tom is very quick and just tells her  he "wants to spend time with her" and "when can we do it"? (pun intended, but her really said that, didn't he?)

And then they get married in the time jump and it will be the most unsatisfying "happy ending" for Tom's character. We didn't see his wedding to Sybil and we won't see his wedding to editor Laura.

 

I actually hope that's not true, but it is an option. The last option for the Non-Brary-shippers. 

MissLucas

MissLucas

Thomas meets with Bertie's cousin who 'likes to paint the young men of Tangier' and who also happens to be in need of a valet. Problem solved. I know plenty of folks are scheming ruthlessly for Lord Hexham's demise so that Lady Edith gets her own castle and title but she's already got a fabulous flat in London, a newspaper, a kid she loves and a great guy to marry - let's not get greedy.

Tetraneutron

Tetraneutron

Why does Tom have to get married or paired up at all? The main characters have to, ie/Mary. Edith has to, because the show's been written such that her life has no meaning unless a man values her. But right now, it looks like every single person minus Violet pairs up. Daisy/Andy. Molesly/Baxter. Isobel/Merton or the doctor. That's a little too fairy tale for what's supposed to be a legitimate show and not YA-novel fanfic. 

 

Tom's story could just as easily end with him no longer feeling like an outsider, with him being comfortable and having a place at Downton, valued not only by the family but by a Cabinet Minister. Moving securely in that world while bringing it into the modern age. He doesn't need a love interest for his story to work. 

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Andorra

Andorra

Well he sure does for me. There were three main couples at the beginning of Downton: Mary/Matthew, Anna/Bates and Sybil and Tom. Julian Fellows put the Sybil and Tom shippers through hell and they only stayed on for Tom, because they wanted to see him getting a happy ending after all he's gone through!

 

Tom got back into the romantic storylines as soon as they threw Edna at him. Mrs Hughes told him in the library then, that "I hope one day you'll find someone to share it with you". Then they forced Bunting on him (and us) which was such torture and surely enough reason to give the Tom fans the loveliest and most wonderful love interest for Tom EVER. Part of his problem with living at Downton was, that he couldn't imagine what kind of woman he could marry to fit in the family. He couldn't see them being happy with him bringin and "Irish working class girl" to the family and he knew that "no other Earl's daughter would be keen to take me on".

 

So him marrying again was always part of his storyline.

 

Allen Leech himself has said repeatedly that for him a happy ending for Tom means finding new love and for the family to accept the person that he loves. 

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Tetraneutron

Tetraneutron

Tom got back into the romantic storylines as soon as they threw Edna at him. Mrs Hughes told him in the library then, that "I hope one day you'll find someone to share it with you". Then they forced Bunting on him (and us) which was such torture and surely enough reason to give the Tom fans the loveliest and most wonderful love interest for Tom EVER. Part of his problem with living at Downton was, that he couldn't imagine what kind of woman he could marry to fit in the family. He couldn't see them being happy with him bringin and "Irish working class girl" to the family and he knew that "no other Earl's daughter would be keen to take me on".

 

So him marrying again was always part of his storyline.

They never gave him a love interest after Sybil. Unlike with Mary (where the audience is supposed to like Gillingham, Blake, and Henry, and ship her with them), Tom's women, Edna and Miss Bunting, were supposed to be hated by the audience. The audience was supposed to boo them onscreen and cheer when they got their comeuppance. And while Mary herself liked her boyfriends, even if she didn't (or doesn't) end up with them, Tom hated Edna and Miss Bunting, thought them pushy, and only hung out with them because they made him feel guilty about not being working-class anymore. 

 

The show didn't throw Edna at us or force Miss Bunting on us - the audience was supposed to hate the characters. They're like the "heels" in wrestling, or like the bitchy popular girl in teen movies who end up falling into a pile of mud. 

 

So since Sybil died, Tom's never had a love interest. On the other hand, Atticus was introduced in episode 5 and no one had a problem with Rose ending up with him. So I suppose there's no reason they can't introduce someone in the last episode or two for Tom. 

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coppersin

coppersin

Maybe Laura Edmunds will be the one the Anti-Braries can hope for? The love interest for Tom that will keep him away from Mary? LOL. I don't see what else could be her function except maybe blackmailing Edith. But blackmail again??

To be fair, "But [needlessly recycled plotline/twist] again?" has become a hallmark of this show. I could see her being a love interest for Tom, and I would like to think this close to the end they wouldn't try to throw anymore crap at Edith, but I won't rule out blackmail because: it's this show. Already a few times this season I've said to myself, "Surely they wouldn't - oh, wait. Yes. Yes they would."

Andorra

Andorra

(edited)

And Rose was a very minor character compared to Tom. Seriously, who cared about Rose? She was extremely unpopular, while Tom was up there among the most popular characters of the show.

 

 

Tom's women, Edna and Miss Bunting, were supposed to be hated by the audience. The audience was supposed to boo them onscreen and cheer when they got their comeuppance.

 

That's true and the question is why? I think it was because he was Julian Fellows' life jacket. As long as Julian Fellows didn't know if one of the "suitors" would catch the favour of the major part of the audience and the romance for Mary would catch fire, he left Tom without a love interest that could be accidently shipped by anyone. He wanted to have Tom in the background for the case that he would need him for Mary later.

 

As we see now. 

 

But he DID imply that romace was on the card for Tom in theory. Just that the women he met were completely wrong.

Edited by Andorra
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photo fox

photo fox

I thought a lot of people liked Rose, especially after the first couple of episodes.  But honestly, all characters have people who love them and people who couldn't care less.  I mean, I like Daisy.  Talk about an unpopular opinion!

 

I think they could still introduce someone new for Tom, and I hope they do.  After all, everyone doesn't need to be going down the aisle in the Christmas special.  If Tom meets someone new and lovely, and acknowledges he's ready to love again, and that person is warm towards Sybbie, that's good enough for me to imagine the rest from there.  It doesn't need to be all wrapped in a bow.

 

I think Tom deserves better than to be Mary's life jacket.  I want him to have his own story.

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hafo

hafo

IMO that's just bad storytelling. Good endings are earned. Introducing a character at the last second is just cheap.

Maybe Tom deserves better, but right now his entire story is with Mary. There was no point in bringing him back if not for Mary. If they wanted Tom to have someone new without telling the story onscreen, he could have come back in the final episode with an American wife. Then Mary would have more time to develop her relationship with Henry. There is no storytelling happening if new characters are simply being shoehorned into the story in order to resolve plot threads that should have been solved over the course of the last few seasons. 

  • Love 6
Andorra

Andorra

IMO that's just bad storytelling. Good endings are earned. Introducing a character at the last second is just cheap.

Maybe Tom deserves better, but right now his entire story is with Mary. There was no point in bringing him back if not for Mary. If they wanted Tom to have someone new without telling the story onscreen, he could have come back in the final episode with an American wife. Then Mary would have more time to develop her relationship with Henry. There is no storytelling happening if new characters are simply being shoehorned into the story in order to resolve plot threads that should have been solved over the course of the last few seasons. 

 

I so agree! There was plenty of time to develop a storyarc for the characters and Julian Fellows even said, that they added season 6, after they thought it would be too rushed to wrap everything up in season 5. So if that's the case, I can't see how they would think bringing in 3 love interests for the 3 main upstaris young characters in the very last minute is not rushed. That just doesn't make sense. 

 

Bringing Tom and Mary together would wrap up two storyarcs at once.I thin k that could also be a reason. Julian Fellows has to bring about 20 storylines to an end.

  • Love 3
foreverevolving

foreverevolving

I know, but the truth is

we already know that Hexham dies. There was a newspaper in the background of a scene with Tom and Mary with a headline that said: "English Marques dies in Tangier"

 

 

Damn, hadn't seen that one before.

 

 

It was a spoiler picture in a news article, rudy. I saw it as well .

Do you know which website or newspaper it was? my curiosity is getting the better of me.

Andorra

Andorra

Here are all pictures. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3163836/Michelle-Dockery-chic-red-coat-wide-brimmed-hat-filming-scenes-Downton-Abbey-s-Christmas-finale-alongside-star-Allen-Leech.html

 

It was filmed while they were at Brancaster, but we don't know if it was for the CS or for Episode 8. From their clothes I would say CS though, because Episode 8 will be in the summer and these clothes look more like fall. 

  • Love 2
Eolivet

Eolivet

(edited)

The more I think about it, the more Mary/Tom makes me uncomfortable. To me, Mary started off the series questing for a rich husband, but the only reason she did it was for love of Downton. Fellowes started the show with the idea that women can't inherit, and Mary's attachment to Downton has been central in the show. She either needs to commit to it fully or break away from it (with someone like Henry, who has money and it would introduce her to a life outside Downton).

 

But marrying Tom would stagnate her -- he has no money, and she only has Matthew's share in the estate. Mary loves riding and fancy parties and seems to enjoy society life in London (fashion shows, restaurants): how on earth does Tom fit into that? At least Matthew as heir would be expected to attend those or Mary could attend those as a young widow, but Tom, living off the kindness of his in-laws? It just doesn't compute, for me. And wouldn't Tom hate that, too? That's just such a sad ending for both of them: basically indentured servants to Downton, living off their parents/in-laws for the rest of their lives -- a married version of Edith in season 1. I cannot believe that's what Fellowes wanted for Mary, and I can't believe that's what's right for Tom either.

 

Plus, it reduces Mary to "the girl" in the story. Tom is the winner in a Mary/Tom pairing -- he gets the "lead character," but the pairing does nothing for Mary (other than "love"): she marries "down" and lives her life with a guy who would rather be with her dead sister. I mean, it's the middle class Matthew subplot from season 1, episode 7, with Mary's dead sister thrown in there. I feel like Mary would be a reward for Tom's loyalty and caring towards her, and that comes really close to the How I Met Your Mother finale, for me.

 

If Dockery is "surprised" at where Mary ends up, I now wouldn't be surprised if she ends up single. I would honestly rather have Mary single than married to Tom: if Downton is Robert's third parent and fourth child, maybe Downton is Mary's second husband.

Edited by Eolivet
  • Love 2
Andorra

Andorra

I don't see it that way at all. In the contrary. I see Mary as the "Queen" of Downton and Tom as the "Queen's escort". A man how doesn't have his own agenda and who will loyally support her in her life's goal, which has to be perserving Downton for George. Which man would be ready to work his arse off for another man's son? 

 

We could see in the last episodes (and actually in the last two seasons) that Tom is completely loyal to her. He supports her wherever he can, he takes as much an interest in the estate as she does. That's what she needs, not a flirt with an adventurous car racer. I really don't see where you see her wanting to go to parties and enjoy a society life, when all her life after Matthew has been about becoming the mistress of Downton and the manager of the estate to save it for George?

 

Also Henry doesn't have money. His aunt said his financial status is "adequate" which quite frankly means "not very good". And he has a completely different lifestyle than what Mary has. If this pairing would happen, one of them would have to give up his or her life completely. Henry would have to move to the country, give up car racing, give up enjoying the modern life and start caring about farming, pigs, tenants and how to manage an estate. Or he could just spend Mary's money while she does the work? I think it is extremely unlikely that it ends so, but well, it is Fellows so...

 

The other alternative would be Mary handing George over the rest of the family and disappear into the sunset with Henry in one of his fast cars. That is just as unrealistic to me than the first option. Mary would NEVER do that.

 

No, for me the only logical outcome would be her staying single and sacrificing her life solely to Downton or to end up with Tom. 

MissLucas

MissLucas

Oh my, Lady Mary's coat! I will miss this show and if it's only because of the wardrobe extravaganza!

 

I don't have such a dire view of Lady Mary's story even if she should end up marrying Tom. Yes, she would not marry into money but given the times that sort of thing was getting harder and harder to pull off anyway - at least if you wanted to marry money and a Debrett's entry. And such a marriage would automatically mean that she had to sever ties to Downton to a certain degree.

 

Lady Mary staying at Downton (single or married to Tom) and trying to save the estate for the next generation is the main story for me - the fate of the estate has been key to the plot from the very first episode onward. Any possible romantic pairing for Lady Mary must fit into that narrative - and that's why Tom makes the most sense to me right  now.

 

Obviously one can argue that she could stay single. But so far Lady Mary has shown no indication that she wants to remain single. There has been no arc showing us that she slowly realizes that she prefers Downton to a marriage or that she's willing to sacrifice romance in order to focus on George's future. Those would both be interesting stories to tell - but there has been so far no indication that she ever considered either of these scenarios for real. If that's where the story is going Fellows must make haste to truly sell it to me.

 

(Strangely enough I thought the other week of How I met your Mother with regards to Henry Talbot. That show managed to bring in a new love interest for the main character in the last season (obviously there had been an insane amount of build-up which helped in the creation of the character) and it worked like a charm - well until the final episode but that's another story.)

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