Season Ten: Up, Up and Just Go Away.

[BkWurm1]

what about the bracelet Clark was supposed to give to her "real love" that appeared in S2? So maybe Smallville Lois is not his real love...."

 

Very true and it's not like the writers just forgot.  The fandom was constantly bring up that stuff and reminding them.  Not bringing in the bracelet had to be a specific choice.  For me it just fits my personal canon that Clark was just obeying "fate" rather than being swept away by his feelings.

 

Even the "Matrix" episode was amazing, when she lgave her hand to Clark, but he didn't trust her...(that was hard to watch too).

 

For some reason, once I found out why he was afraid to let himself trust her, it took the sting away.  I mean, it's because he's been silently freaking out that she left him and part of him can't accept that Chloe would ever do that and it hurt him so much more than he could process and was so big that he couldn't talk about it.  Plus, he at the end of season nine was just coming to terms with how awful he'd treated her and in ten when she was gone, he had to wonder if he no longer deserved her loyalty and trust.  I see his hesitation as proof of his doubts about himself more than not trusting Chloe. 

 

Something else I found interesting about that episode, Chloe walked through walls for Oliver.  She caught knives mid air for Canary.  For Clark?  She just wanted him to automatically believe her.  I tie it back to the mess that was season nine.  Clark no longer thinks he is deserving of her loyalty and Chloe can't help unconsciously testing his blind faith. 

 

I didn't mind that it was Lois that talked sense into him  because it's not like she provided any proof that Chloe didn't or that her faith in CHloe convinced Clark, it was her getting Clark to talk about his feelings for Chloe and his fears and his hurt that let Clark finally get out of his own way.  His instinct was to trust Chloe but he was doubting himself, afraid that what he felt was obscuring reality.  Lois didn't get him to just trust her, she got Clark to trust himself.   

[Chloe]

Yep,  Chloe never forgot Clark, and didn't regret how bad he treated her. At lesast, she didn't give up trying to be friends again, because I have my doubts about whether Clark would or wouldn't have befriended Chloe again if anyone had given him a signal.

 

I am glad that the bracelet was "forgotten" in s10. For me, as a viewer, it would have been too much, since I'm not a Clois (Smallville Clois) supporter. 

Anyway, they tied up different open plotlines, but it was interesting how they didn't use it especifically.

 

Another thing they didn't close was Lana. But there are several continuity issues around that plot so it would have been complicated to use it again. But I just couldn't believe how Lana, now as a vigilante, didn't appear (even in the shadows) to help them. I mean, I know they didn't have KK to play her anymore, but it wouldn't have been more logical. I also missed Lana in the final episode, it would have been great to see her from an skyscraper watching how Clark becomes Superman, just like Oliver does, or Chloe.

 

Chloe's ending was great-not perfect (she should have ended with Clark!)-but she became the real storyteller of Superman....because she was the mentor of superheroes....especially Superman.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Chloe

[wingster55]

To be honest..I didn't like the retcon of Clark saying Chloe always trusted him. Not so much. (Also when they made Chloe an able fighter. Hated that)

[BkWurm1]

Curious, what are thinking of as Chloe not trusting him? I mean, she didn't always leave matters in his hands ( like she was sure Clark would screw up the Davis issue - although on that I don't think there was a way not to screw up) but she never stopped believing in who he could be or that he was a good guy. She was furious at him sometimes but in general it played to me like she always trusted him.

The fighter thing was silly but I at least had fun fanwanking who she picked up her training from. ;)

Edited November 15, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wingster55]

That before she learned the secret, she trusted Clark even though she knew he was lying. I remember the times where she looked into him which contradicts that.

[BkWurm1]

That before she learned the secret, she trusted Clark even though she knew he was lying. I remember the times where she looked into him which contradicts that.

I guess I don't think looking into someone's secrets as not trusting them.  It's curiosity, IMO.  She wasn't looking into him because she thought he was evil or bad or was shady, she just wanted to know what he was hiding. 

 

She always before she knew his secret felt like he was her go to guy for saving the day.  (It's you, it's always you) Even when she agreed to give Lionel info, she still protected Clark's secrets.  She trusted him with the weird stuff going on in the town even when she was mad at him and thought he was likely going to be mean to her again (Lionel's "You wish.")  And when she realized her choice was letting Clark keep his (badly hidden secrets) or risk their friendship, she chose their friendship and turned a blind eye to all his unusual behavior. 

 

So, it's probably a matter of interpretation of the statement. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

DONE! And I will not take this out for a year, at least. Maybe.

Soooooo nice that the assholes remembered that Clark and Chloe were best friends this season. The words he said to Chloe in the premiere after she put on Fate's helmet and was unconscious.

I call bullshit on her words to Ollie in that email-that's how she feels about Clark. Even if he doesn't deserve it.

And they get to touch and hug each other again! And to smile at each other.

I'll say it again, because it never gets old for me-that Chloe is the best friend ever! The way she knew something was wrong with Clark's wedding ring and yelled no and tossed it up in the air before Lois could put it on his finger.

And I will end with how much I love seeing Tom and John sharing scenes again! I bawled in "Lazarus" and in the finale. And I see shades of the real Clark-talking with emotion and passion in those scenes instead of the muted and wooden speak I had to suffer in last season and this one.

And DAMMIT, John Williams's score still gets to me and gives me shivers EVERY TIME.

Edited November 22, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[bettername2come]

Just bought the season, which I haven't seen a full episode of in five years. I liked Clois (growing up on Lois & Clark guarantees that), and Chlollie so I had fonder memories of this season than many others. Plus, no Lana! The thing about this show is that even when there were ridiculous things happening and terrible storylines there were always some truly beautiful moments sprinkled among them. Watching the Clark and Jonathan scene in the first episode now, and dammit, those two always got me. 

[BkWurm1]

I

liked Clois (growing up on Lois & Clark guarantees that)

 

I adored Lois & Clark.  Plus after seeing the original Superman movies I spent far too many minutes of my youth trying to figure out a way to get them together (even though he thought he couldn't be with her as Superman- my solution was Lois was just going to have to fall in love with Clark - seems I was ahead of my time)  Also regularly watched the Superman Animated series.  Drew the lines at comics but otherwise, yeah, I was a big Lois and Clark shipper. 

 

None of that helped me like Smallville's Lois and Clark.  Pretty sure it was what made me loath them as a couple.   

 

That said, if season ten could be assessed on it's own divorced from the previous nine years of history I probably wouldn't have despised the pairing as much.  The characterization at least on the surface was good.  They wrote Lois miles better in season ten and ED finally toned down the shrill and strident tones (mostly).  Of course all I saw was that they'd remade Lois so that she was written and acted far closer to Chloe than ever before so the bitterness was strong.

 

Plus from the standpoint of loving the epic love story, I was bitter since Clark only decided to get back together with her after he was told she was a sure thing, not because he loved her so much and wanted to be with her so badly that he was willing to risk getting rejected.  Hated to that season ten framed their relationship as something that worked for Clark specifically because it wasn't an equal partnership. And that Lois was perfectly happy to let him keep her in the dark about whatever he wanted and just trusted his god like judgment knew best. 

 

Between Lois's greatest wish in a relationship being to know she could come first and Clark's biggest dream to have the kind of equal partnership his parents shared, I just got a sick feeling knowing that neither of them were getting what they wanted or dreamed of in each other.  Then to have Lois think he shouldn't be wasting his time in a relationship since he was this god among men...she didn't understand what made Clark tick at all.  Pretty sure Clark decided to embrace his destiny and never bothered with the details of who Lois was either.  Most the stuff he writes in his vows don't even fit his relationship with Lois. 

 

Smallville just made a mockery of that love story.

 

Yup.  Still bitter. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[bettername2come]

Oh, they are by no means my favorite Lois and Clark, but they're not my least favorite (hello, Routh and Bosworth). But knowing they were end game from the start made them easier to accept, and I think they had some good moments in each season. And their relationship meant the death of Clana and Clark finally moving on from his toxic relationship with his high school sweetheart.

Plus from the standpoint of loving the epic love story, I was bitter since Clark only decided to get back together with her after he was told she was a sure thing, not because he loved her so much and wanted to be with her so badly that he was willing to risk getting rejected.

 

Good point. That is a problem with time travel stories, in general. Although for me, the bigger issue in that storyline is that he had to see that he became Superman to actually become Superman.

 

And in a completely unrelated topic, I forgot how entertaining Justin Hartley's Oliver Queen was, and now I'm remembering why I didn't watch Arrow for two years because it wasn't a spinoff with him.

[BkWurm1]

I would have happily watched Oliver and Carter Hall bicker about everything.  That was a great pairing.

[BkWurm1]

Although for me, the bigger issue in that storyline is that he had to see that he became Superman to actually become Superman.

 

By then he was already a decade into everyone else trying to get him to be a hero.  I'd given up on an epic rise to hero.  I still had hopes for him until the end of season 8 but his regression in season nine took away my ability to care...much about him becoming Superman. 

 

That he had to see his destiny to reach his destiny was already ruining the whole point of the earlier season where he was going to forge his own path and not let Jor-El turn him into some kind of monster.  Once he started embracing destiny they'd already lost me.

 

Especially when the only way he could have his destiny is if Kara took herself out of the way.  Insert eye roll. 

[Chloe]

 

 

That said, if season ten could be assessed on it's own divorced from the previous nine years of history I probably wouldn't have despised the pairing as much.  The characterization at least on the surface was good.  They wrote Lois miles better in season ten and ED finally toned down the shrill and strident tones (mostly).  Of course all I saw was that they'd remade Lois so that she was written and acted far closer to Chloe than ever before so the bitterness was strong.

 

Plus from the standpoint of loving the epic love story, I was bitter since Clark only decided to get back together with her after he was told she was a sure thing, not because he loved her so much and wanted to be with her so badly that he was willing to risk getting rejected.  Hated to that season ten framed their relationship as something that worked for Clark specifically because it wasn't an equal partnership. And that Lois was perfectly happy to let him keep her in the dark about whatever he wanted and just trusted his god like judgment knew best. 

 

Between Lois's greatest wish in a relationship being to know she could come first and Clark's biggest dream to have the kind of equal partnership his parents shared, I just got a sick feeling knowing that neither of them were getting what they wanted or dreamed of in each other.  Then to have Lois think he shouldn't be wasting his time in a relationship since he was this god among men...she didn't understand what made Clark tick at all.  Pretty sure Clark decided to embrace his destiny and never bothered with the details of who Lois was either.  Most the stuff he writes in his vows don't even fit his relationship with Lois. 

 

Smallville just made a mockery of that love story.

 

Yup.  Still bitter. 

 

Yes, Lois was better in S10 than before, especially when one gets accustomed to them being a couple, because they simply wanted that to happen, no matter what ......and so, despite of the fact I dislike Smallville Clois, I can even watch them if I consider that the 8 previous seasons (and Chloe's and Clark's progression) had never existed.

 

Oh the wedding vows.....that was very hard to watch, it was like....how long have you been in love you two? Are you really perfect for each other? Why are you (writers) trying to make it even more "perfect"?

 

Oh, they are by no means my favorite Lois and Clark, but they're not my least favorite (hello, Routh and Bosworth). 

Superman returns Clois was strange. I don't particularly like them, I prefer the classic Superman's movies Clois.

 

 

But knowing they were end game from the start made them easier to accept, and I think they had some good moments in each season. And their relationship meant the death of Clana and Clark finally moving on from his toxic relationship with his high school sweetheart.

Good point. That is a problem with time travel stories, in general. Although for me, the bigger issue in that storyline is that he had to see that he became Superman to actually become Superman.

 

As a Clana fan (but MORE Chlarker than Clana though) I can't agree that their relationship was toxic all the time, it was, for sure, but I think it developed from attraction to real love) but they were two star-crossed lovers.  If they tried to be partners several times that was because they loved each other. I think that if they had had more luck, they could have had a healthier relationship, and at the end they had a more "grown-up" relationship. (I discuss all these in the Ship Thread). 

 

However, I think that the relationship that should have developed after what happended to Clana should have been Chloe and Clark, because IMO that could have been the real love Clark was always searching for, and that one that Chloe had always wanted, because he was his other one. (I love Chlollie but it's not the same for me). Clark could have changed his feelings towards Chloe (the ones of the Best Friend to the ones a man has for the woman he is falling in love with); and he ALREADY had a thing for Chloe while loving Lana or having sexual attraction for Lois.

 

so Yes, we all knew that from the moment Lois appeared, she would probably be the endgame of Smallville. But, the storytelling didn't clearly point that until S8/S9 and there were strong cements for Chark, but they didn't like that and rushed for Clois. So that's why I don't agree that the end of Clana in terms of storytelling meant the start of Clois, because it came from the attraction (similar to Clana's first steps), not  from the strong friendship that had had 8 years on-screen evolution.

Is it good? If I hadn't watched the first 8 seasons, I would have liked them. But not the way they did it, with Chloe becoming a shadow, and even trying to destroy their friendship (which  hopefully didn't happen).

 

 

And in a completely unrelated topic, I forgot how entertaining Justin Hartley's Oliver Queen was, and now I'm remembering why I didn't watch Arrow for two years because it wasn't a spinoff with him.

I haven't watched Arrow because of the same thing. Green Arrow is Justin Hartley for me.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Chloe

[Lisin]

I haven't watched Arrow because of the same thing. Green Arrow is Justin Hartley for me.

 

I felt the same way and didn't watch Arrow until it was on Netflix and you know what? It's really good! I'd say if you liked Smallville you'll probably like it. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I felt the same way and didn't watch Arrow until it was on Netflix and you know what? It's really good! I'd say if you liked Smallville you'll probably like it.

I'm the exception to that! I loved this show for the most part. Got only as far as three episodes in Arrow before bailing.

[bettername2come]

I'm the exception to that! I loved this show for the most part. Got only as far as three episodes in Arrow before bailing.

In fairness to Arrow, it improves significantly the more Oliver builds up a team and stops being so stoic and PTSD-y.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not for me. I have been forced to watch the crossover episodes with The Flash because I do watch the Flash. And Anell's acting has not improved to me or Katie's. It's like taking bitter medicine. Plus it pushes my buttons because this show has usurped a good number of Bats's Rogue gallery, snd this dude is just a wannabe Bats to me.

But I don't begrudge those that love and enjoy it. It's just not for me.

[BkWurm1]

Not for me. I have been forced to watch the crossover episodes with The Flash because I do watch the Flash. And Anell's acting has not improved to me or Katie's. It's like taking bitter medicine. Plus it pushes my buttons because this show has usurped a good number of Bats's Rogue gallery, snd this dude is just a wannabe Bats to me.

But I don't begrudge those that love and enjoy it. It's just not for me.

Katie's acting good or bad doesn't really matter since she's pretty much just a background character at this point. 

 

As for Amell's acting, I sincerely think that it takes context of the character to understand his acting choices.  I remember not at all being impressed  with him in season one but thinking he improved in leaps and bounds in the second year only to rewatch the first season and realize he'd always been a far better actor than he gets credit for and that it was my understanding of the character that let me see it.  Three episodes in season one and a few crossover episodes don't give the full picture. 

 

It reminds me a bit of the complaints that Tom Welling always received.  Part of the issue is that Clark IS very stoic.  I remember John Glover remarking on how incredibly difficult it was to remain still and contained while playing him in Transference.  Some of the very best and most emotional moments on Arrow have come from Stephen Amell, but he also spent three years practically a poster boy for PTSD. 

 

In the end, Smallville and Arrow are very different shows.  The one thing that Arrow so far is winning is writing to the characters over the comics - not always since the Black Canary stuff was just painfully bad, but Arrow and Smallville had similar problems IMO of two comic characters with a lot of history that just IMO didn't work as a couple on the show.  Arrow acknowledged their issues and shifted to follow the story direction the show naturally wanted to follow rather than the one from the comics and yeah, that will forever earn Arrow an extra gold star in my book. 

 

Basically, I can't help see the success of Arrow as Chloe's role on Smallville (and where I thought the weight of the show's history wanted it to go) finally being vindicated. 

Edited January 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Chloe]

Maybe I'll give it try..... if only Chloe was in

[BkWurm1]

Chloe's not in it, but I think she and Felicity would have gotten on well. Saying that, I do want to stress that despite both being bottled blondes that excel on all things information, they are very different characters.

It's a bit funny to me that by the time Smallville was done, Chloe would have still been younger than Felicity when she started Arrow but in reality AM in real life when she finished Smallville would have been a few years older than Felicity's character at the start of Arrow and the actress Emily Bett Rickards actually younger than Chloe was supposed to have been at the end of Smallville.

Yes, random thoughts.

[DittyDotDot]

Oops..nine/ten...they're practically the same number, right? Sorry, nothing to see here, but if you head over to the S9 thread, there might be. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[Chloe]

A friend is currently watching S10 now for the first time and can't understand why Chloe (she is also his favourite character as well) is doing everything she is doing to save everyone and, instead, we have a hero (Clark) whose character development is stuck. He told me: " Kara is much more mature than Clark and prepared" but he doesn't know it....

[BkWurm1]

I makes me laugh for all the wrong reasons that in season ten Kara literally had to move to another century in order for Clark to be a viable option.  This show has a WTF level of stuff that actually happened that fan fic writers that hated Clark would have found too absurd to even consider.  Still cracks my up that interrupted the big Lois and Clark wedding and then showed that even SEVEN YEARS in the future they still hadn't managed a marriage.  Lol. 

[DittyDotDot]

So, I started into S10 and the trip down memory lane. And everything is so dark...you know because there's a darkness coming and Clark has darkness inside him...and Lex is apparently still out there. Who knew, right? ;)

 

Anyhoo, looks like Clark made a smart move to ditch the black leather coat for the red leather. Seems like it would be hard to run, jump and fight in the long one. 

[BkWurm1]

Well black leather was very "last year". So passé. ;)

Season ten is better in a lot of ways than nine but also like they just totally started writing Lois different so I have a hard time even taking it seriously. And Erica Durance approached the character differently- making the character better but it was like they wanted me to just forget the prior five years and nope, not happening. I did just roll with the radical changes Tess goes through. It's easier not to overthink that one.

Oliver gets his heart broken and then his brain stomped on. He makes some seriously questionable assumptions and decisions and he "credits" Chloe with why he makes them. Poor Chloe. That said, she has a pretty good year, character wise. Not perfect IMO, but soooo much more respect and credit by the end of the series to who she is as a character on the show.

[Chloe]

I makes me laugh for all the wrong reasons that in season ten Kara literally had to move to another century in order for Clark to be a viable option.  This show has a WTF level of stuff that actually happened that fan fic writers that hated Clark would have found too absurd to even consider.  Still cracks my up that interrupted the big Lois and Clark wedding and then showed that even SEVEN YEARS in the future they still hadn't managed a marriage.  Lol. 

LOL!!!!!!!!!

Yes, yes!!

I felt bad for Kara, she didn't even say goodbye because she knew it was her duty to leave 2011 Metropolis so that Clark could be Superman. 

But why couldn't both of them be in the same century? 

 

By the way....going to watch Smallville Finale again in a few weeks with my friend that finally is going to watch the ending. 

I'll post again as soon as I watch it. I'll remember it better.

[Quark]

I really enjoyed Season Ten (some of it was less enjoyable), especially when Lionel Luthor was in the episodes. John Glover is probably one of the best actors to appear on the show and Lionel is just phenomenal. Was awesome seeing Zod again and loved Lex in the finale. Evil Clark is always fun to see.

Darkseid was quite lacking as the main villain but at least we had Lionel.

Also wasn't a fan of the Earth-2 scenes in Kent. Found them a bit dull. Didn't like the Booster Gold episode either.

Have I mentioned how much I love Lionel? :P

[BkWurm1]

After they killed off Lionel, I missed him but at the same time, that version of his character was kind of a confusing mess, but season ten's Lionel was the full bore magnificent bastard himself.  He was the most glorious baddie on television.  Lex was supposed to be the ultimate evil but nothing could top Lionel.   

[rue721]

I've just been jumping around S10, watching the episodes with good descriptions, so apologies if my thoughts don't make sense in the context of the whole season (or show)...didn't seem worth it to create episode threads just for this though?

From what little of the season I've seen so far, I am really liking Tess -- although maybe that's because I still haven't seen S8 or S9, so if she's behaving out of character, I really wouldn't know. Also, it's funny to me that Cassidy Freeman actually looks quite a bit like Michael Rosenbaum IMO, at least enough so that they could plausibly pass for half-siblings -- but that neither CF nor MR look ANYTHING like John Glover.

But anyway, I'm also delighted to see John Glover/Lionel Luthor again.

As terrible and terrifying as Lionel is, something about him is just so appealing. He's got so much life in him. I can definitely see him perpetually turning up like a bad penny. I also love his guilt trips and pretensions and just how theatrical he always is. He's ALWAYS playing to the cheap seats, it's awesome.

I miss Chloe, and thank goodness that Martha also comes into some episodes later. I'm also probably the only one, but I miss Lana. It's also really difficult to get used to Lois having such a large role. I've never hated Lois, but I've never thought that she had too little screen time, either. It's Lois overload now.

On 10/24/2015 at 8:10 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I will say that Clark Luthor scared the bejesus out of me. Welling was very good at playing a cold-blooded murderer.

Yes! Honestly, everything about that dark mirror world was amazing. I loved everything about that whole damn episode. Even the relatively small touches, like that Lex had branded a giant L on bad!Clark with gold K! (And then Clark KILLED him?! LOL damn).

I was also delighted to see Lionel bust out the fencing foils. And that he beat Clark! I just generally liked how much Lionel freaked out Clark, considering he's this scrawny old guy who by any rights should not be physically intimidating at all (and especially not to a superhero). Lionel is able to be terrifying by force of his personality alone, which is pretty awesome.

When he busted out the belt at the end, though, it went a little bit over the line for me. Because giving Clark a whipping, and right in front of Oliver, too, has GOT to be the most demeaning possible thing that Lionel could have done right then. I mean, getting lectured when someone beats you in fencing is kind of demeaning, too, I guess. But having someone LITERALLY beat you, when you're an adult, and in front of someone else no less...I don't know. That's pretty bad. All I can say is that when I got hit as a little child, I found it so demeaning that I would sometimes absolutely *lose it* and hit back. So I cannot even IMAGINE what it would feel like to get beaten like that as an adult. But Clark seems to feel nothing much out of the ordinary. *Shrug* Sometimes I just don't get that guy.

Anyway, I loved seeing a Lionel-raised Clark, too -- I'm happy to see that he's in another episode coming up (although I haven't watched the second episode he's in yet).

You know, thinking about it more, I guess that's what I both hate and love about Lionel -- how he demeans and belittles people. A lot of the time, it's actually pretty funny. But Lionel can also turn on a dime, so it can go from hilarious to horrifying in about half a second, too.

On 10/30/2015 at 9:26 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

As for Chloe, he did trust her; it's been a mantra of this show that the reason he didn't tell Chloe, Lana, or anyone else was to protect them, and not because he didn't trust them. Lex was the exception, because Clark could see why he couldn't tell Lex.  And the only reason he told Lois was because of what he saw in the future.

See, I think the reason that people got into so much trouble upon learning about Clark's secret was because of Clark's own poor planning. He needed to tell them what they should DO with the information. If he had given them a mission, they would have been OK. IMO things would have gone much better if Clark had really thought things through, and didn't just throw information at people and then get upset that they didn't magically know what to do with it or they didn't magically handle it in just the way that he wanted.

The reason that Chloe did so well with the information compared to other characters, IMO, was because she knew what to do with it once she had it. She COULD do something with the information (help Clark save the world, etc). IMO that would have been the best course of action for Clark to take with Lex, too. If Clark didn't like that Lex was working so hard on ferreting out his secret, then he needed to give him something else to work on.

Lois somehow picked up the notion that what she needed to do with the information that Clark was a superhero was play the damsel in distress sometimes. Rather than act like a real partner all the time. It was weird of her, and I don't know why Clark didn't set her straight? Ah well, maybe he does, but in some other episode that I haven't watched.

Honestly, I don't really like the S10 version of Lois as much as I do pre-S10 Lois in general, though. She's so much flatter and drier now.

On 11/13/2015 at 4:51 AM, BkWurm1 said:

Because he's a Luthor and all Luthor blood is automatically evol! Except for Tess. And Connor (aka Superboy). And E1 Lionel kind of got redeemed. And the clone of Juliane was fine. And Lucas was only a conman, not really evil. No, only Lex is a true Luthor thus evol even if he has no motivation, reason or explanation why.

Alexander who?

Aaargh the "Luthor blood is poison" thing really bothers me. It's creepy to attribute badness to tainted blood, for one thing. But also...Clark is adopted, and he happens to know for a fact that his bio father was awful, on top of that. So this tainted blood idea seems especially inappropriate coming from him.

Anyway, about these not-EVOL Luthors:  I find it hilarious that Lex created a clone that is literally his child with Clark. I mean, I get why he did it, as a practical matter, because Clark obviously does have some good genes. But it's still weird as hell. Especially since he did it after he and Clark were already enemies. Like, I can imagine creating a love child with my best friend -- but not so much with my (theoretical) FORMER best friend who is now my mortal enemy, you know?

Well anyway. I actually really liked when Alexander was evil, and essentially psycho S7 Lex Luthor skulking around in a little kid body. That was so creepy and fun. And he was genuinely scary. I liked him following around Lionel with that expressionless, dead-eyed face -- it was the first time when it felt like Lionel was actually outmatched by "Lex." And I really liked that scene when he pulled a gun on Tess and Clark...except that I found it hard to believe that he was won over by them saying they would always be there for him. I mean, at that point, Alexander still had Lex's memories. So he KNEW that Lex had been hanging on that same promise for years and it hadn't saved him. One the one hand, I found the whole scene very touching (a few tears might even have been shed), but on the other, it seemed to me like they were just blowing smoke up Alexander's ass.

I also found it very sweet that Lionel went after Alexander as soon as he found out about him, too. Describing anything that Lionel does as "sweet" seems wrong, I know. But I felt for Lionel that he was genuinely missing his son so much and that he was so eager for a second chance with him. I actually found it weird that Alexander brushed that off. That's sort of why I didn't like when Alexander tried to burn Martha and Lionel alive in the mansion. I can buy that Alexander is a lunatic, and I can buy that he's angry with Lionel and unwilling/unable to play house with him, but I can't really buy that he would be so unambivalent and straightforward about killing him (especially given that he had been around him for only a few hours at most). It took actual!Lex SO long to finally kill Lionel, and even when/after he finally did it, he seemed to have pretty mixed and complicated feelings about it. Also, if Lionel is having second thoughts about letting Lex get killed, wouldn't Alexander-with-Lex's-memories also probably have SOME regret or second thoughts about killing Lionel (again)? Even if he still decided to go through with it, you'd think he wouldn't just do it so randomly. Well anyway.

I'm not so big on Connor (yet), either. It's weird to me that they're (so far) trying to attribute the good stuff about him (that he's wholesome and powerful) to Clark and the bad stuff about him (that he's got violent tendencies on Red K, I guess) to Lex. When he had Lex's memories, it made sense to attribute his faults to Lex, but now that he's just some kid who happens to be half Luthor, it doesn't make sense anymore IMO. I also kind of end up feeling like he's the shittier version of both Clark AND Lex. He doesn't have Clark's ubermensch thing going on, because he's just this tiny, neglected young kid. And I guess it's good that he's not as unstable as Lex was...but he also doesn't seem as spirited, balls-to-the-wall, and zany, either.

I dunno, as far as Cousin Oliver characters go, he's great. And I'm totally on board with Alexander. Connor's just kind of not doing it for me (yet).

Edited January 2, 2017 by rue721

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, Connor takes some real weird turns.  

[rue721]

OK, I just watched the finale.

I didn't really understand what was going on with Tess? The scene when she escapes from the operating table and shoots Lionel in the heart is pretty awesome! I liked that she didn't even go for the overkill, she was very surgical in how she fought everybody.

Tess is just so serious all the time. Mostly, it's a good thing. But sometimes it makes her seem a little naive and bland. Like how there is no depth to her interactions with Lionel at all. Whenever they interact, he's trying to prey on her insecurities in THE most basic, heavy-handed way -- but she just seems to take what he's saying at face value. She never seems to wonder why he's doing that or what it might mean about him or how she should respond to it. That's strange to me, but mostly it's really boring to me. What makes her unique as a character if she doesn't have a more unique perspective? Is she supposed to be significantly younger than the other characters? If she is, then I guess that makes her characterization make more sense. Or maybe she's supposed to be dumb, but honestly, I think the only character who is legit meant to be dumb on this show is Lois.

But anyway, I got pretty confused about what Tess was up to *after* she killed Lionel. Why was she coming back and giving Lex a dose of the memory-wipe chemical? Even if Clark wanted to set it up so Lex's memories would be wiped ASAP, why didn't he just put some of the chemical on Lex's clothes or something else that he would touch? Why would he send Tess in to smear him with it? I just thought it was weird because Tess died doing it, and it seemed like it was this big climactic moment for her character...but I didn't understand why SHE in particular would be doing it in the first place.

I was also sorry that Lex and Connor didn't interact. The big scene between Lex and Clark was actually really awesome IMO, but I wish that Clark had brought up Alexander, especially once Lex started talking about memories. I mean, Alexander thought he was Lex when he had Lex's memories, but I don't know if Lex would think he was Lex. Also, I assume that Clark was trying to replicate the Alexander's transformation into Connor when he wiped Lex's memories.

It would have been cool to have seen more of post-memory-wipe Lex, to see how he was affected by that. I don't even understand what it really means to wipe an adult's memories, since even if they don't know about their past, their past is still going to effect them. I mean, even if Lex doesn't remember anymore specifically WHY he is so power-hungry, it doesn't mean he's now not going to be power-hungry (which I guess the show was trying to convey when they showed that he'd become president?). Losing Lex's memories was transformational for Alexander because he was a kid, and didn't have a set identity yet -- and the memories were just imposed on him anyway, they weren't *his.* But I don't know that losing his memories would actually be transformational for Lex himself. It might just be confusing.

Anyway, what I thought was really cool about Lex and Clark's confrontation was that they actually did interact like they were old friends who knew each other really well and had a lot of history. You could see that Clark was thinking about what Lex was saying in the context of all that they've been through together. Really awesome to see a show actually use its 10 years' worth of history.

Also, I thought what Lex was saying was interesting in its own right. It's actually pretty much what I thought Lionel had been trying to do way back in the day, when he was trying to worm his way into Clark's inner circle. I thought that Lionel had been trying to set up Lex as Clark's nemesis/rival in order to play them off each other, because Clark would have to keep raising his game if he were in a competition with Lex (and Clark seemed like he'd be pretty unambitious if left to his own devices), and because focusing Clark in on a specific enemy like that would make Clark easier to manipulate (especially since Lex himself was pretty easy for Lionel to manipulate). In retrospect, I have no idea if Lionel had any game plan at all, let alone that one in particular. But it was still intriguing to see Lex bring up a similar idea now, especially since it meant he was consciously putting himself into a pretty soul-killing position, and for pretty much the sole purpose of getting attention (at least as far as I could see?). And I liked how MR played it, like Lex even already understood that he was not going to be satisfied by this "solution." I also liked how he kind of smiled when Clark apologized for not saving him, although I'm not really sure what was meant to be making him smile.

Anyway, I didn't really like the framing device of having Chloe tell the story to her son, or the "comedy" of Lois and Clark finally getting their wedding together. It felt out of place to me. The "path to becoming Superman" montage also felt really long, but that's probably because I don't personally care that much about the comics character or anything (this is really the only version of Superman that I've ever followed). But all that's pretty minor. I don't mean to complain!

I actually liked the finale a lot better than I thought I would!!

[DittyDotDot]

10 hours ago, rue721 said:

Anyway, I didn't really like the framing device of having Chloe tell the story to her son, or the "comedy" of Lois and Clark finally getting their wedding together. It felt out of place to me. The "path to becoming Superman" montage also felt really long, but that's probably because I don't personally care that much about the comics character or anything (this is really the only version of Superman that I've ever followed). But all that's pretty minor. I don't mean to complain!

I thought those were also out of place, but like you, liked the finale more than I thought I would. I think they tied it up fairly well in the end.

[BkWurm1]

16 hours ago, rue721 said:

Anyway, I didn't really like the framing device of having Chloe tell the story to her son, or the "comedy" of Lois and Clark finally getting their wedding together. It felt out of place to me. The "path to becoming Superman" montage also felt really long, but that's probably because I don't personally care that much about the comics character or anything (this is really the only version of Superman that I've ever followed). But all that's pretty minor. I don't mean to complain!

I've gone into full blown denial about Chloe and her "son".  I mean, nowhere does he ever call her mom and nowhere does she ever call him son or talk about his dad.  Yes, in the "Season 11" Smallville comics that came out, they support that it's her and Oliver's son but sorry, the comic tie in is no more to me than licensed fan fiction.  It's just one guy's take on what could have happened.  It's not canon to me.  Nothing but what happened while the show was on counts IMO.   Even those comic tie ins were only "canon" until the show decided they weren't.  So yeah, that kid?  I'm going with Chloe was babysitting.  La,la,la,la, I can't hear you!!

Apart from the kid question, really the conceit of her reading the story doesn't make sense.  It's a comic book that includes snippets of her childhood but how could they have included her likeness if Clark's secret as Superman hadn't come out? (which Clark still in glasses indicates that it hasn't)  So then if his secret is still secret, where did the comic come from?  Makes no sense.  

And then Clark's wedding drama.  Oh my goodness, was that drawn out. But I have to admit that I took personal pleasure with the fact that not only did Chloe have to explain to Lois what Clark needed and that no, he's not a god, but that she also got to stop the wedding.  From a meta standpoint it was awesome.  And then seven years later, they are STILL NOT MARRIED?  And now they are also pretending to barely know each other at work?  Yeah, I'm going to go with that relationship really isn't working out, lol.  

So what I'm saying is there was something for everyone in the finale!  ;)

At the time I was very happy that they brought back Chloe for the finale (it had been in question) and I did like her normal contributions to the episode outside of story time.  I'm not a fan of Smallville Lois and never will be and this did nothing to endear me to her.  I also thought Clark was pretty awful for never having even told his mom he was selling the farm.  He took a ridiculously long time in figuring out that his past matters to who is was today (meaning that all the stuff that Brainiac told him at the reunion was utter crap) and only after embracing all his experiences did he take to the skies.  

I hate that Lois got her big name because she bopped someone over the head and then just happened to be there when news was going down, not for anything she really did.  Also think the resolution of Superman inspiring the world and thus being able to move the planet coming at them was absurd but oh well.

Lex's return was awesome and I LOVED the set up of him knowing Clark's secret but refusing to tell anyone since he wanted that Yin and Yang balance.  HATED that not only did Lex get his memories wiped but that he killed Tess in the process.  

16 hours ago, rue721 said:

Is she supposed to be significantly younger than the other characters? If she is, then I guess that makes her characterization make more sense. Or maybe she's supposed to be dumb, but honestly, I think the only character who is legit meant to be dumb on this show is Lois.

But anyway, I got pretty confused about what Tess was up to *after* she killed Lionel. Why was she coming back and giving Lex a dose of the memory-wipe chemical? Even if Clark wanted to set it up so Lex's memories would be wiped ASAP, why didn't he just put some of the chemical on Lex's clothes or something else that he would touch? Why would he send Tess in to smear him with it? I just thought it was weird because Tess died doing it, and it seemed like it was this big climactic moment for her character...but I didn't understand why SHE in particular would be doing it in the first place.

Tess was meant to be near to the age of Oliver.  But I'm guessing younger than Lex (So also older than Clark.)  I don't think you got the best sense of who she was in the finale, except for the part where she was intent on saving Clark.  She followed in Lionel's footsteps in revering him as the world's savior at times.  She took it upon herself to wipe Lex's memories but that took getting close enough to him to do it and oops, Lex killed her to "save" her.  

And no, Tess was not meant to be dumb.  She was portrayed as one of the smartest people on the show but she did have some fanatical ideas that led her to doing some really dumb things.  (Hi Zod!)  Her character was complicated and I stand by my assessment that the show toned down some of her crazy in season ten to an unbelievable level but I liked her character enough at that point not to really care.  Plus it was clear that some of the changes happened since they needed to replace Chloe's function on the show when she vanished.

I a lot of ways, the finale was a mess, but I so enjoyed the return of Lex and the death of Lionel and really the dynamic of the whole Luthor conclave that I was willing to overlook the messier parts.  Basically I watched just to complete the experience, not because I really liked the show at that point.  And yet, I took a number of pleasant things away with me, even if the show gave them to me unintentionally (like Lois clearly not being the right fit for Clark and Chloe getting to save him from it, lol)

Basically for me, what it did was give me a whole lot of future fan fiction fodder.   

Edited January 3, 2017 by BkWurm1

[rue721]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Apart from the kid question, really the conceit of her reading the story doesn't make sense.  It's a comic book that includes snippets of her childhood but how could they have included her likeness if Clark's secret as Superman hadn't come out? (which Clark still in glasses indicates that it hasn't)  So then if his secret is still secret, where did the comic come from?  Makes no sense.  

You're right! It hadn't even occurred to me how illogical the conceit was, to be honest. But now that you say it...

I just thought it was incredibly awkward, since the show hadn't had a framing device or a narrator before. And out of everyone who could have been a narrator...why Chloe, who was a huge character in the story herself? And why to a little kid? It just seemed kind of operatic for a little kid story.

This is neither here nor there, but wasn't the little boy's room really weird, too? That GIANT bed in front of that GIANT window...even Luthor mansion was cozier and warmer than THAT.

Chloe left a big hole on the show -- but to be honest, I think it would have been better to just leave her out entirely rather than awkwardly tacking her on as a narrator like that. Chloe was always so vibrant and involved -- so trapping her in a framing device like that made it feel like she wasn't really "her" IMO.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

And then seven years later, they are STILL NOT MARRIED?  And now they are also pretending to barely know each other at work?  Yeah, I'm going to go with that relationship really isn't working out, lol.  

Yeah, what was up with them pretending not to know each other? Why and how would they keep up a ruse like that?

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Tess was meant to be near to the age of Oliver.  But I'm guessing younger than Lex (So also older than Clark.)

I thought Oliver and Lex were the same age? They went to the same high school reunion back in the day, so I had figured they were in the same class, and roughly the same age?

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't think you got the best sense of who she was in the finale, except for the part where she was intent on saving Clark.  She followed in Lionel's footsteps in revering him as the world's savior at times.  She took it upon herself to wipe Lex's memories but that took getting close enough to him to do it and oops, Lex killed her to "save" her.

Yeah, her character really went over my head. I probably need to watch a lot more episodes to understand what's going on.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I actually liked her. But she was so unresponsive? I don't get it. Even when Lex stabbed her, she just kind of laid there in his arms, not reacting very much at all. Or she would get tearful for a second if Lionel was an ass to her or about losing Alexander or whatever, but then that would be it. The most she seemed to actually react to anything was when Clark talked about Luthor blood being poison, and even then, he didn't notice, it was just obvious to the audience that she felt uncomfortable. And then that never came up again after Clark apologized to her, either? To be fair, I might not have that impression of her anymore once I actually see all the episodes she's in.

Anyway, when she was wiping Lex's memories, she said that Clark had "already taken care of that," so I thought that Clark was involved in that somehow? Also, Lex talked to Clark about memories, not Tess -- so why would it even occur to Tess to wipe his memories, unless Clark gave her the idea? Or did she come up with it because she wanted him to transform into someone else, the way Alexander did once he lost Lex's memories?

I actually really liked the thing of Lex killing her with the dagger, though. It felt so Shakespearean. Not just the scene itself, but also that the Luthors were apparently all wiping each other out in a Big Tragic Climax, lol. (I count wiping Lex's memory as a kind of "death").

Although to be honest, I don't know why Lex did it. Aside from him having some psychotic need to be the only Luthor still standing, lol.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lex's return was awesome and I LOVED the set up of him knowing Clark's secret but refusing to tell anyone since he wanted that Yin and Yang balance.  HATED that not only did Lex get his memories wiped but that he killed Tess in the process.  

I would have been cool with Lex losing his memories if they'd shown us how that changed him, and if he'd gotten them back. In fact, I think that would have been a really awesome episode just on its own. The idea felt very "Freak of the Week" to me -- in a good way, actually. But since it was a pretty Freak of the Week kind of story, it really needed to go somewhere within the episode itself, and it really needed a reset at the end!

Ending the series with memory-wiped-Lex becoming the iconic Lex Luthor is like ending the series with Clark Luthor becoming the iconic Superman. Such a bait-and-switch! That's not the character we've been following this whole time!

It's also depressing (and frustrating) that Lex was apparently fated to be the Big Bad, no matter how his life went (or how he remembered his life going, anyway). Is that really what they were trying to say?

Anyway, I agree that I really loved that conversation between Lex and Clark. Another thing that I liked about it is that Clark was so gentle and kind with Lex -- that really made me feel like Clark had grown. He started out as a good kid, and that scene really did make me feel that he'd become a good man.

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Anyway, when she was wiping Lex's memories, she said that Clark had "already taken care of that," so I thought that Clark was involved in that somehow? Also, Lex talked to Clark about memories, not Tess -- so why would it even occur to Tess to wipe his memories, unless Clark gave her the idea? Or did she come up with it because she wanted him to transform into someone else, the way Alexander did once he lost Lex's memories?

I'm not up to the final season yet in my rewatch, but no, Clark had NOTHING to do with why Tess decided to wipe Lex's memories, and even though I will always believe Oliver failed in killing Lex, and that the show was trying to tell us that the Lex that showed up in the finale was the "best" and most successful clone of Lex, I'll never believe it, but according to the show, that wasn't even the real Lex. Though in my head, he totally was. From what I can recall, Tess did this all on her own.

Don't get me started on how this show got me with John Williams's Superman theme and gave me the goosebumps and good chills, and Clark didn't earn this music or status as becoming Superman.  And really, do not, do not, (and I will probably scroll back and do a copy and paste) about the utter BULLSHIT retcon of how Jor-El was this good AI and everything that happened to Clark from the Pilot on, were tests to make him into Superman, ignoring the ARSEHOLE VILLAIN it was, thinking it was actually alive and human, in all the shit he pulled. I still remember "Covenant" and what he did to that "Kara." The premise, even in this show, from the episode where Clark goes back to his first memory, was to send Clark to another planet, because Krypton was on the verge of destruction; and not to send him to populate another galaxy with Kryptonians or have Earth ruled. The number of twists, retcons, bullshit from episode to episode, season to season that contradicted the former was enough to make my head explode; and then in the finale to have the AI Jor-El suddenly become the good replication of the actual Jor-El.

[rue721]

10 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

the show was trying to tell us that the Lex that showed up in the finale was the "best" and most successful clone of Lex, I'll never believe it, but according to the show, that wasn't even the real Lex.

Wait, for real? But I thought the label LX-0 meant that he was the original?

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, rue721 said:

Wait, for real? But I thought the label LX-0 meant that he was the original?

Yeah. According to the show, Ollie killed the real Lex, because Clark didn't have the "balls" so to speak, to do so. Like I said, I'm going to have to wait till my rewatch to confirm.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh man. I'd forgotten how GUTTED I was when Carter was killed the first time around and it got to me again. And the reappearance of Earth-2 Lionel reminded me again, what a hole the departure of John Glover left. My excitement was back in "Luthor" and I didn't fast forward it at all, because Magnificent Bastard! Season One Lionel was back! And when Chloe finally came back, oh my heart's happiness knew no bounds! And I don't care what the show tried to tell me, the way Clark keeps trying to look like Lois is his one and only, I only see Tom forcing Googly Eyes, and the minute, the second he and Chloe sat and watched each other at the end of "Collateral" and the chemistry just sizzled. To see Chloe smile at Clark again; to see her run up to hug Clark once he and Lois left the virtual reality world--it looked so natural, so organic.

And now for my annual bitchfest: I will never be convinced, that in less than a year, Lois became an Iron Chef, to the point of being able to make a perfect Thanksgiving Turkey; when she burned those chops to the point where Shelby even turned his nose up at it. And speaking of which, I'm going to assume Lois got allergy shots or took allergy pills, for the sudden love she has for Shelby, and her no longer sneezing in his presence.

I miss original Shelby. Bud was his name; and I miss that the show no longer told us who was playing Shelby after. There were a total of three dogs, including Bud, I think.

And MarthaFucking!Kent should have been in the Thanksgiving episode. I hated and continue to hate the sidelining of the Kents in Clark's life. I did nothing but roll my eyes during that scene in the Fortress of Lois trying to convince AI Jor-El to "open up" to Clark. PUHLEAZE. He's a fucking machine and NOT Clark's father.

I'm all over the place, but again, in the premiere, Tom and Jonathan again, bring me to tears. I miss seeing those two together.

Oh, hello Connor Kent.

I need to marshal my thoughts before I go on a tear post about "Homecoming."

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh good Lord, just finished with "Scion" and the scenes with Connor and Lois were difficult to watch and made me very uncomfortable, and icky.  I know that had the genders been reversed, the internet would have exploded. I mean, an older man, being predatory, and basically set to rape a 16 year old? I mean, how old was Connor here? And to see him be all predatory, and forcing himself on Lois? If Clark hadn't appeared when he did, would the show have gone there? And where was Lois's defensive skills? She's always been able to defend herself against men. Did she freeze because it was Connor and he was a teenager? I can't imagine how Lucas Grabeel felt doing those scenes.

Oh man, now I'm up to "Kent," and the uber assiness of Clark selling the Kent Farm, which has been in the family for at least three generations, is mind-boggling and, and...UGH.

takes a deep, cleansing breath.

I call FOUL AND BULLSHIT!!!!!! on Clark telling Lois that Clark Kent is the mask and Superman The Blur being who he really is in "Beacon." NO! Stop ripping off of Batman. Due to his tragedy, for Bruce Wayne, Batman is WHO HE IS, and Bruce Wayne is the mask. For Clark, Clark Kent is WHO HE IS, and Superman is the mask!

Edited January 13, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I call FOUL AND BULLSHIT!!!!!! on Clark telling Lois that Clark Kent is the mask and Superman The Blur being who he really is in "Beacon." NO! Stop ripping off of Batman. Due to his tragedy, for Bruce Wayne, Batman is WHO HE IS, and Bruce Wayne is the mask. For Clark, Clark Kent is WHO HE IS, and Superman is the mask!

To be fair, for a very long time Superman was written like that with Clark Kent as the mask but they changed that since at least the 90's and that's when the character finally worked for me.  To hear Clark say it in this show was a huge gut punch.  Like a disavowel of everything we'd watched.  

The only thing I could think was Clark stopped feeling real as Clark and only did when he was out using his powers to help.  That kind of made sense to me since I didn't really recognize the guy on the screen who was supposed to be in love with Lois and didn't give a damn about the farm and pretty much seemed like he was going through the motions of his life because he thought this was supposed to be his life rather than it actually making him happy.  

Edited January 14, 2017 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

To be fair, for a very long time Superman was written like that with Clark Kent as the mask but they changed that since at least the 90's and that's when the character finally worked for me.  To hear Clark say it in this show was a huge gut punch.  Like a disavowel of everything we'd watched.  

Really? I'll stick to my "illusions" and maintain it's bullshit, heh. And yes, it was a total disavowal of everything we'd watched. Hell, one of the reasons I detest this season, along with loving parts of it, is the sudden constant mantra of how Clark has "always been alone" and that Lois is the ONLY one who can see through to the real him, blah, blah, bullshit. Then I get whiplash when I watch "Kent" and hear him tell Bo Kent how Bo raised him, and he missed him, and then back to bullshit.  And I don't know that I like the Donner take they did, with all of a sudden having Clark be this stuttering, stumbling idiot.  And speaking of which, Perry knew that Lois and Clark were together; that they knew each other, so in the finale's epilogue, having then pretend not to know each other, or hiding they were dating when Perry was now their editor-in-Chief? And then I get pissed and ragey when the show runners hacks act all how awesome they are for "exploring" they hows and whys of x villain or character or how this works and it was so AWESOME! When it only proves they're in love with their meager skillz and blind to the cannon, retcon, retconning of the retconning bullshit they've done and insulted the viewership, to boot.

Ooh, it's "Dominion" time, and DAYUM, does Callum Blue look hawter with that beard, ????and my oh my oh my....my favorite Clark look: sweaty, bloody, hair mussed up (thought it looks like Tom got a haircut), and repeating myself, from TWoP and here: Me: a big pile of goo.?❤❤??❤❤????

See you back in a bit, with more...??

Edited January 14, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

GLADIATOR SUPERMAN!!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 11/22/2015 at 0:18 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

DONE! And I will not take this out for a year, at least. Maybe.

Quoting myself, because hee, I did wait a year before pulling this out to watch again. Well, 13 months, anyway! So I guess it will be a tradition: annual rewatch of the series!

So I remember looking foward to the 200th, which was "Homecoming" and it such a disappointment. The BS of it all; how Lois was so pathetic, in trying to engage with other alumni as if she had been friends with them or even bothered to get to know them, was painful. There was never any explanation why that counselor was so batshit crazy and blamed Clark for everything and was ready to kill him, either.

I keep circling back to it, but I hate and loathe the retcon, that Clark never said goodbye to Jonathan, and so he had to remove the watch his father always wanted him to have and buried it with him, instead of, oh, I don't know, holding onto it and giving to his own child down the road? Or that it was knowing for sure, that Lois was okay with his sekrit, even though he already knew that from two years previous, when Linda Lake was going to out him, and he used the Legion ring to go back and making her forget, because she is "special."

And what a sad, pathetic sack of her former self this show's version of what they think Iconic Lois is supposed to be. I won't repeat myself about how she refuses to marry Clark because she expects him to stay awake, 24/7, and not have his own life, and just keep saving everybody. Oh the horrors! That he is entitled to a private life. Blergh.

And now, onto...Finale!!!!! Can't wait to see Martha rip into Clark for wanting to sell the farm...seeing Jonathan again....seeing Chloe be the BEST FRIEND EVAH!

[BkWurm1]

There's just so much wrong that I feel like i can't express it.  

Need to finish an old fanfic that does it for me, lol.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

There's just so much wrong that I feel like i can't express it.  

But...but...but...you've expressed it in the past so well!!!!!! Give it another shot!

And CURSE YOU, JOHN WILLIAMS! and your moving score!!!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Now do I go back and rewatch the pilot to get the bad taste out...or....plug in my Superman: The Animated Series? Hmmm....I think I'll watch the pilot and then go watch my Tim Daly Superman, thank you very much!

[BkWurm1]

19 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But...but...but...you've expressed it in the past so well!!!!!! Give it another shot!

 

Here's my problem:  so much of season 9 and 10 makes no sense based on the previous 8 years of show and characterization that I have no choice but to go looking outside of the show for an explanation to reconcile all the things in the later seasons that just plain don't make sense.  So something like this happens:

 

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

the sudden constant mantra of how Clark has "always been alone" and that Lois is the ONLY one who can see through to the real him, blah, blah, bullshit.

All I can think is that no, it's been Chloe that see the real him (and has to explain he's a not a god to Lois) and then I start getting lost in the question of what kind of mind control Jor-El exerted over him to have made him think that Lois is his connection to humanity.  And then I wander into fan fic territory to explain it because that seems more plausible than what they are selling in the show.  

 

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I keep circling back to it, but I hate and loathe the retcon, that Clark never said goodbye to Jonathan, and so he had to remove the watch his father always wanted him to have and buried it with him, instead of, oh, I don't know, holding onto it and giving to his own child down the road?

And this is terrible as well.  Homecoming was just a huge mess.  Brainiac gave Clark the totally wrong lesson in his little trip through time.  Brainiac insisted that he had to put it all in his past and let go and yet we find out in the finale that it was only when Clark embraced everything in his past, good and bad, all the things that made him who he was, only then was he able to fly.  So basically, what Brainiac told him was a lie or at least grossly misinterpreted.  Which brings me to Lois.

 

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 Or that it was knowing for sure, that Lois was okay with his sekrit, even though he already knew that from two years previous, when Linda Lake was going to out him, and he used the Legion ring to go back and making her forget, because she is "special."

And what a sad, pathetic sack of her former self this show's version of what they think Iconic Lois is supposed to be. I won't repeat myself about how she refuses to marry Clark because she expects him to stay awake, 24/7, and not have his own life, and just keep saving everybody. Oh the horrors! That he is entitled to a private life. Blergh.

 

He only told Lois (after breaking up with her and deciding not to get back together and to not tell her his secret while not knowing she already knew it) because Brainiac 5 showed him a point about 7 years into the future that seems like he's got a great life.  A job, a girl that has his back, and he's out there saving the world.  So with this bit of destiny to aspire to, he gets back together with her and shares his secret.  Not because he can't live without her or because he just loves her so much, but because it's supposed to be a fait accompli.  It comes with guarantees.  (Yes when he told her his secret last time before that timeline was erased she didn't treat him like a monster but they weren't dating and she seemed more interested in getting her headline than seeing him as her friend so it's not entirely the same.)

But getting back to my point.  Brainiac showed up to convince Clark of a few things and one of the really big things, - needing to bury his past and leave it behind - turned out to be the opposite of what he really needed to do.  So really, this future where Clark thinks he sees a promise of a happy life, he really doesn't know at all what his reality will be like.  

Just the part where she freaks out about the glasses made me decide that the whole bumbling thing and eventually her insisting that they pretend to barely know each other  was her doing and probably was completely unneeded and part of what makes Clark feel like Clark Kent has become just a mask for him to wear.  

And of course Lois completely not getting who Clark is as a man and what he needs in life, plus the fact that seven SEVEN!!! years later the couple that just had their wedding interrupted STILL were not married made me decide that the only reason they are even together seven years later is that CLark is still holding onto that picture of a "perfect" life.  I can't help wondering though if the view from the other side (future Clark's side) looks a lot different.  I assume life is pretty hollow.  I also assume that Clark was willing to give it one more try but when he AGAIN is interrupted, that he would finally wake up and come to his senses and stop trying to make destiny happen.  

Edited January 14, 2017 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So with this bit of destiny to aspire to, he gets back together with her and shares his secret.  Not because he can't live without her or because he just loves her so much, but because it's supposed to be a fate complete.

Errm....I think you meant "a fait accompli," oui?

And see? You were able to talk about it! 

And now I'm wondering if the the neurotoxin Tess gave Lex was supposed to erase everything, how did he know who he was, from "that moment" on and the next seven years, to the point of becoming President? I'm just going to head canon it and assume that only his memories where he knows who Clark is, was gone. Otherwise it makes no sense.

And there is NO REASON why that body that was waiting for a heart couldn't be the REAL LEX and that Ollie just killed a clone. Yep, that works for me.  And wow, even though it was only six minutes, it was so great to see Rosenbaum and Welling together again! Rosie didn't miss a beat. It just emphasized how hollow the last two seasons without him and Glover were.

Yep, still eye rolling and side eyeing, AI Jor-El's speech that it was Jonathan and Martha's love and upbringing that made him the man/hero he ended up being, when all during the series, hell, going back to season two, all that thing did was tell him to leave his Earth Parents because they'd already served their purpose and he had to go on continue with destiny...training...blah, blah, blah...

[rue721]

12 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Errm....I think you meant "a fait accompli," oui?

And see? You were able to talk about it! 

And now I'm wondering if the the neurotoxin Tess gave Lex was supposed to erase everything, how did he know who he was, from "that moment" on and the next seven years, to the point of becoming President? I'm just going to head canon it and assume that only his memories where he knows who Clark is, was gone. Otherwise it makes no sense.

And there is NO REASON why that body that was waiting for a heart couldn't be the REAL LEX and that Ollie just killed a clone. Yep, that works for me.  And wow, even though it was only six minutes, it was so great to see Rosenbaum and Welling together again! Rosie didn't miss a beat. It just emphasized how hollow the last two seasons without him and Glover were.

Yep, still eye rolling and side eyeing, AI Jor-El's speech that it was Jonathan and Martha's love and upbringing that made him the man/hero he ended up being, when all during the series, hell, going back to season two, all that thing did was tell him to leave his Earth Parents because they'd already served their purpose and he had to go on continue with destiny...training...blah, blah, blah...

I think that LX-0 was the real Lex, or at least so completely indistinguishable from the real Lex that it's impossible to say that he was NOT the real Lex. He had Lex's memories and consciousness, he was in a body made from Lex's body parts...I mean, how is he not Lex?

IMO the show was playing with the Teletransportation Paradox. Here's Parfit's version of that paradox/thought experiment:

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In Reasons and Persons, Parfit asks the reader to imagine entering a "teletransporter", a machine that puts you to sleep, then destroys you, breaking you down into atoms, copying the information and relaying it to Mars at the speed of light. On Mars, another machine re-creates you (from local stores of carbon, hydrogen, and so on), each atom in exactly the same relative position. Parfit poses the question of whether or not the teletransporter is a method of travel—is the person on Mars the same person as the person who entered the teletransporter on Earth? Certainly, when waking up on Mars, you would feel like being you, you would remember entering the teletransporter in order to travel to Mars, you would even feel the cut on your upper lip from shaving this morning.

Then the teleporter is upgraded. The teletransporter on Earth is modified to not destroy the person who enters it, but instead it can simply make infinite replicas, all of whom would claim to remember entering the teletransporter on Earth in the first place.

 

(That's just the Wikipedia summary, but if you actually find it interesting, this is a better article about it, which includes some actual excerpts from Reasons and Persons).

Anyway, IMO Lex basically lived Parfit's thought experiment. To me, it's impossible to say that LX-0 is NOT Lex. It might be easier to write him off as not-the-real-Lex if the real Lex were also walking around at the same time. But as it is, there's no (temporal) overlap between LX-0 and Lex, and LX-0 in fact even thinks of himself as the continuation of Lex's consciousness.

It's weird/interesting that LX-0 lost his memories but kept his identity (as Lex), because memories are the most basic and concrete way that someone maintains a coherent, consistent identity over time -- so there must have been even more about LX-0 that made him Lex, beyond just Lex's memories.

I think that Tess gave LX-0 the neurotoxin because she thought that getting rid of Lex's memories would get rid of Lex (within LX-0); it would "cleanse" him in a way. She would have had reasons to believe that, since Alexander thought he was Lex ONLY because he had Lex's memories, and when Alexander lost those memories, he wasn't Lex at all anymore. But clearly, LX-0 wasn't Lex ONLY because of the memories, since he still continued on Lex's destiny (wearing the white suit, becoming president...) and still "was" Lex even after losing them.

I think the major difference between Alexander and LX-0 is that Alexander was the reincarnation of Lex, and LX-0 was Lex himself. So once Lex's memories were gone from Alexander, he was free to grow into an entirely new person. But LX-0 was literally Lex, so even without his memories, he was just an amnesiac Lex.

Another character I think is really interesting/weird in the context of identity is Earth2 Lionel. I guess the key difference between Earth2 Lionel and Original Lionel is that E2-Lionel martyred himself for Lex, and O-Lionel martyred himself for Clark.

Why would every version of Lionel ultimately choose to martyr himself? He's not the kind of person I would have necessarily thought of as a potential martyr. And why did every version of Lionel need to pick a "champion"? It's like once he picked his one true champion/successor/son (either Lex or Clark), he was ready to pass the mantle on to that man and let himself die...but he's also not the kind of person who I would necessarily have thought of as willing to go so quietly into death.

It's even more difficult to know how Jor-El and his AI were/weren't the same person, because I guess we never even got to meet Jor-El...

Man, I liked S10. The identity stuff they threw in there with the clones and the multiverse and all that was just mind-blowing!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Alexander was different, because Lex cloned him using not only his own DNA, but also Clark's DNA, so he became Connor Kent; Clark's DNA were apparently stronger and good, so they over imprinted Lex's memories and the hate he had for Clark. That's my head canon anyway. The only knowledge I have of that character is from Young Justice.

Don't get me wrong; I never believed Original Lex was ever murdered by Ollie. But the show was telling us that such an iconic character, who was still alive in the comics, and since this show and its show runners hacks, decided to lightswitch and match up with the comics, decided in their arrogance to tell us me, that the Lex we saw in the finale was just a clone who needed a heart to animate and become Clark's mortal enemy. Which I refused to buy into.