Frontline

[piccadilly83]

On 12/7/2018 at 8:29 AM, Rap541 said:

And  - right or wrong - culturally communities in America look down on people who take advantage of social benefits if they are white.

Are you suggesting that culturally communities in America do not look down on people of color who take advantage of social benefits or that they look down upon them less?  If so, I suggest you reexamine the welfare queen trope.  The suggestion that poor white people who qualify for social welfare benefits don't take advantage of them due a sort of societal racial bias against their favor is completely out of step with my experience in American politics.

[Rap541]

12 hours ago, piccadilly83 said:

Are you suggesting that culturally communities in America do not look down on people of color who take advantage of social benefits or that they look down upon them less? 

Not at all. I was responding to the comment on how white supremacists tend to look not so "master race" due to their often obvious poverty and lack of education and touching on the reasons why they often don't see that they're in a similar, if slightly better position than the people of color they oppress.  That has nothing to do with the fact that people of color are routinely shamed for taking benefits. You're right - that's happening, likely even as I type this. 

But... that doesn't mean that there's been a system in place since the first white landowners began encouraging their poor white brethren to blame the equally poor and often more poor people of color for their troubles, all while working the system to make sure that the po' white trash stays well down the rungs of society. Looked at objectively, poor whites have far more common interests with people of color but this notion of "you're white so you *should* be doing better, why aren't you?" shaming and the way society encourages the blame to be placed on the people of color "taking" what the poor whites would otherwise receive (theoretically receive anyway) is a huge part of the problem.

Do note, this in no way means people of color aren't looked down on for taking social benefits. That's absolutely true - and if it's necessary to concede people of color have it the worst, I have absolutely no problem agreeing with that point.

[AuntiePam]

The Great Divide: Obama to Trump -- it's an eye-opener.  I'm a Liberal Democrat but I've voted locally for Republicans and Independents.  My husband is a Republican but has also voted off the ticket. 

I've had a hard time understanding what happened in 2016 and this documentary is just what I needed. 

I guess I don't have any profound insights about the doc, except that there are some profound insights to be had -- like how Trump felt that his legitimacy was being questioned, with the investigation into Russian interference.  It's ironic that he couldn't see that his Birther movement did the same for Obama.  It's sad that (apparently) Trump was prepared to be "presidential" from the beginning -- to tone down his rhetoric and try to appeal outside his base -- but was stopped by Steve Bannon and others. 

I'll probably watch this more than once -- there's a lot to digest, even though none of it is particularly complicated.

I'm interested in opinions of Trump supporters.

 

 

[AuntiePam]

This week's episode about the origins of the Food and Drug Administration was fascinating.  The documentary followed the work of Harvey Washington Wiley, a scientist who pioneered food safety.  This was necessary because of the change from agrarian to urban/industrial.  It was necessary for city dwellers to consume manufactured/processed food.  There were no regulations -- manufacturers could put anything they wanted into their products, and they did.

He started by organizing a "poison squad", volunteer federal employees (healthy young men) who agreed to eat only what Wiley provided.  He fed them adulterated food and recorded the results.  The men got sick from these experiments, but thankfully, none of them died.

Even if you're familiar with the time period, this was fascinating, and frustrating.  It seems that nothing has changed.  Corporations and big business had too much power in the 19th century, just as they do now.  Anyone who complains about "big government" and "too many regulations" should watch this.  If not for Wiley and others, we'd still have formaldehyde in meat.

 

 

[DanaK]

Frontline episode for November 9 2021: "Pandora Papers". About the recently leaked documents on the world of secretive financing by big wigs

Edited October 25, 2021 by DanaK

[kaygeeret]

so this show is not being updated?

[Bastet]

18 minutes ago, kaygeeret said:

so this show is not being updated?

There was a new episode this week (about the 2020 election lie and resulting insurrection) and another new one coming next month about Michael Flynn.

[DanaK]

16 hours ago, Bastet said:

There was a new episode this week (about the 2020 election lie and resulting insurrection) and another new one coming next month about Michael Flynn.

The new episode this week about election lies, "Lies, Politics, and Democracy", is the premiere of the 41st season. The Flynn one, "Michael Flynn's Holy War" will premiere October 18. "Putin's Attack on Ukraine: Documenting War Crimes premieres Oct 25

Edited September 9, 2022 by DanaK

[DanaK]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:17 PM, kaygeeret said:

so this show is not being updated?

FYI, I do a monthly highlights post of PBS programs in the PBS topic under Network Talk, including Frontline programs

[DanaK]

Nov Frontline: "Putin's War at Home", Nov 1

[IntrovertRed]

Just watched "Putin's War At Home".  Throughout the whole episode, I had butterflies because I was constantly worrying that the Russians showcased will be tortured or killed.  I am in awe of their bravery, but not gonna lie, a [huge] part of me wishes I could yell at them, "please go hide and be safe!"

[DanaK]

14 hours ago, KLJ said:

Just watched "Putin's War At Home".  Throughout the whole episode, I had butterflies because I was constantly worrying that the Russians showcased will be tortured or killed.  I am in awe of their bravery, but not gonna lie, a [huge] part of me wishes I could yell at them, "please go hide and be safe!"

I haven't watched the particular episode yet, but this is one of those things where you think why don't the people just rise up? But if there is strong repression by the government, it's not that easy. But the various Russians protesting have been very brave to do so in spite of the repressive pushback.

[DanaK]

For January 2023:

"Global Spyware Scandal: Exposing Pegasus" (Israeli hacking tool used by governments to spy on citizens), 2 parts, Jan 3 & 10

"Putin and the Presidents" (how various US presidents misjudged Putin), Jan 31

[DanaK]

For February 2023:

"Ukraine: Life Under Russia's Attack", Feb 14

[DanaK]

For March:

"Age of Easy Money" (the role of the Federal Reserve's "easy money" policies from the "Great Recession" to the current rise in inflation), March 14

[DanaK]

For September:

"Two Strikes/Tutweiler" (2 stories, one about a West Point grad who got life in prison and the other about pregnant women in prision), Sep 5

"Putin vs the Press" (about a journalist's war on the Putin regime), Sep 26

[DanaK]

For October:

"The Astro's Edge: Triumph and Scandal in Major League Baseball", Oct 3;

"Elon Musk's Twitter Takeover", Oct 10;

"McConnell, the GOP & the Courts", Oct 31

[DanaK]

For May 2024:

"A Dangerous Assignment: Uncovering Corruption in Maduro's Venezuela", May 14

"South Korea's Adoption Reckoning", May 28

[LinkAiris]

On 12/7/2018 at 11:29 AM, Rap541 said:

But frankly, thats where the rage comes from. Society to a point says that by dint of being white, you should be doing better. White people have that privilege, that basic step up... and I don't discount that step up at all, but you do need to have some minimal skills to take advantage of that step up. If you're not very smart - average or lower, no matter what color you are, its hard to escape poverty and there are many traps and pitfalls. Good lord, if watching Making a Murderer has taught me anything about poor white people, its that there's a subclass of really not well educated white people out there who have room temperature IQs and who fall apart the second they're shifted out of their comfort zone. If you aren't very smart its easy to fall for scams and people who lie and tricks. And  - right or wrong - culturally communities in America look down on people who take advantage of social benefits if they are white.

So you're poor, you're struggling, you're looked down on if you take advantage of welfare benefits, and then you see social benefits being offered to non white people who financially may be if not doing better than you, but certainly might be doing as well as you are doing... and it's frustrating to know you're shut out. Either you face social shaming for taking advantage of the same programs OR you don't qualify for those programs because you're white. When I was in college in the early 1990s, there was a program where inner city kids (black mostly, and perhaps due to where I lived, Cambodian and Vietnamese) who got accepted to my college got a special weekly stipend, and extra tutoring, and cut rate tuition. I did not qualify for this program because my grades in high school were too good, and my struggling lower middle class parents made too much money, and I was not a member of a minority race. The only white kid I knew who qualified for this program was someone that had been a foster kid. This frustrated me a great deal, because it very much felt like I was being handed a higher bill for school because I was white, and my reward for good grades was LESS money for school.

Now, I don't have a room temperature IQ so I can see beyond my own anger at what was really going on. The kids who qualified for this program went to really bad schools. Thats why they got free tutoring, and thats why most of them really struggled with college courses.  While I perceived them at a similar financial level, they weren't, and they were all more likely to end up with a pile of student loan payments and no college degree (and in fact when I graduated, it was pretty noticeable that of the kids who were in this program, most had failed out over the years and they were trying to get $100 instantly) But... along with applauding myself for being so open minded and clever, I can see where this program would create some serious anger (and did create some serious anger) with average intellect white students from not so great backgrounds who were told they were basically too white and too wealthy to qualify.

Then consider how tales of these programs get related to family members and people in the community who aren't terribly smart. What this all translates to is that when you're poor *white* trash, you get nothing and are trash. If you were a member of some minority, you'd get something without the public shaming of "look at those white folk on welfare, why aren't they grabbing the brass ring, they're white, they *should* be successful, not poor!". This is where the rage ball starts to roll downhill.

And this is why you rarely see wealthy white people participating in these rallies. I am not btw saying that wealthy white people aren't racist - because oh yes they are - but I am saying that their reasons for racism tend to be more hidden.  The people who attend these rallies feel like they have been left behind - they're not enjoying the success of being white that they are told they should be receiving and they perceive non whites demanding more rights as losing out even more - they're white but as poor as non whites, they're not successful, they're not offered any special programs to raise them up AND NOW they're starting to feel outnumbered. 

Education will help but only so much, I fear. 

Your post really delves into a complex issue that many people grapple with but often don't fully understand or acknowledge. It's clear you've put a lot of thought into the intersection of race, privilege, and socioeconomic status.

It's understandable how feelings of frustration and resentment can emerge when individuals perceive a disparity in opportunities based on race. Your example of feeling excluded from a program due to being white, despite facing economic struggles, highlights a real tension in society's approach to addressing inequality.

The notion of privilege, especially white privilege, is a nuanced one. While it's true that being white can confer certain advantages, as you rightly point out, these advantages may not always translate into tangible benefits for individuals facing economic hardship or other challenges.

Your insight into the complexities of programs aimed at addressing inequality is valuable. While such programs are often well-intentioned, they can inadvertently reinforce stereotypes and create resentment among those who feel excluded or marginalized.