S14.E10: 8 Chefs Compete

[cooker30]

I've been to Los Angeles many times and I've never heard of a pirate themed dinner theater. Maybe someone who's local can tell us what/where it is. Or maybe it's training school for Disneyland employees?

I don't have any info about the place but do agree with the poster who said that it sounds like a great place for a kid's birthday party. My guess is that this place has already been book for Survivor Rodney's 31st birthday:)

[BogoGog24]

Well we all have different interpretations of his comments. I understand where some of you are coming from with his equating having "skills, strength, guts" to having a penis, but I personally just am not reading that much into it. I'm a girl and literally thought nothing of his comments. I'm pretty sure I've seen women use the exact same expression in the past. No one here is ever going to "agree" about the matter, some people are going to interpret his comments as being sexist, others like myself just found it to be a poor choice of words but otherwise didn't think much about his comments. You can't force someone to see something how you see it. My interpretation of his comments remains the same.

 

Also, I do find it to be a double standard that people are only concentrating on Josh's behavior/treatment towards Nick, but barely anyone mentioned the red team's treatment towards Michelle. One contestant/team is mistreating one specific teammate, yet only one of them is being called out on it. Like I said, I took way more offense as a small person towards how Michelle was being treated than by anything Josh said. I am the smallest, youngest, and least experienced person where I work and I can't imagine my coworkers treating me the way that the red team has treated Michelle. That is probably why I feel more offended by her situation than Nick's.

[ZoloftBlob]

I don't recall anyone telling the shorter contestants that they didn't have the height to win. I also don't think Michelle falls into any sort of protected class due to her height.

Edited May 9, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Julia]

I tend to agree that we're not going to convince each other. Fortunately, our respective levels of offense are besides the point, since the competition we're watching is a job interview, and Josh is not going to get that job. For a number of reasons, but one of them is that any woman who works for him is going to have a much lower standard of proof if she sues because Josh announced on national television that you need testicles to be a great cook. Fox actually sent no-one home so they wouldn't have to send Josh home not because he deserves a shot, or has one. Fox sent no-one home because they think sexist assholes make good TV.

 

As for Michelle, moving into a different conversation which involves bad behavior in general rather than the specific issue we were discussing, I don't think that referring to Michelle's stature was appropriate. I also think that her height has far less to do with the way the red team is treating her than the fact that she's not very good at her job, and she behaved really aggressively badly (including a threat of physical violence, which is the other reason she's going home) while the team was setting up the dining room. She's still around for the asshole factor too.

 

As far as I know, vertically-challenged people are not a protected class, but if it helps, it does contain a lot of successful chefs :)

[BogoGog24]

I also think that her height has far less to do with the way the red team is treating her than the fact that she's not very good at her job.

 

 

The same could possibly be said for Josh regarding his feelings about Nick though. Some are choosing to believe Josh made the comments he did because he really believes Nick sucks because he's gay, not because maybe he just doesn't think he's a good chef. Michelle may very well not be a great chef, although she hasn't seemed that awful to me so far. It's very possible the red team could be treating her the way they do because they just think she isn't good, but it's also possible they treat her as an afterthought because she is smaller, younger, and less experienced than the rest of them. I really don't see how the 2 situations are different. In actuality, both sides are mistreating a contestant with underlying levels of prejudice (sexual orientation, height, age, level of experience), it's just that Josh chose a more offensive way of expressing it, whereas the red team was more subtle. It's very possible both of them think Nick and Michelle suck because they just aren't good chefs, or it's also possible they think they suck because of their sexual orientation/level of experience, age, and height.

 

The way the red team has treated Michelle isn't something that just appeared in the last episode, it's been ongoing for awhile now. From the beginning Michelle was the youngest person in the kitchen and because of that, the other ladies automatically acted like she couldn't hold her own due to having less experience. I think the red team sees her as the next easiest target, because Meghan, T, and Allison are the remaining strongest chefs on the red team so now Michelle is the next option for elimination. And after Michelle is gone, it will be Allison. Every week they just find a new target to go after when it's time to put someone up for elimination. I also didn't really take Michelle's comment about hitting T seriously. People say stuff facetiously all the time like "If I fail this test I'm gonna kill myself" and "I'm gonna smack you if you don't shut up." I'm sure there's a clause in their contracts that says they aren't allowed to get physical with anyone so I doubt Michelle really planned to hit T. I guess I just prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt in these situations and rarely take anything they say literally or seriously.

 

So yeah you could say "I don't think Michelle's height has as much to do with how the red team treats her as it is that she just isn't good at her job," but you could also potentially say "I don't think Nick's sexual orientation has as much to do with how Josh treats him as it is that he doesn't think he's good at his job." Only Josh knows what he meant by his comments, only the people on the red team know how they feel about Michelle and her skills. Like I said, Josh may very well think Nick sucks because he's gay and not a "real man." He could also just think he's not a skilled chef. The red team could think Michelle sucks because she isn't a skilled chef. Or they could think she sucks because she's the smallest, youngest, and least experienced. Exact same situations, it just depends how you choose to interpret them. 

 

Anyway, my point is that Josh chose to express his prejudice towards Nick with words, but we've never actually seen him treat Nick badly because of his sexual orientation. On the other hand, we haven't seen the red team say anything about Michelle, but it's clear through their actions that they think she is beneath them. They don't necessarily have to say "Michelle can't win because she is too short. She isn't tall enough to win. She isn't old enough to win. She isn't experienced enough to win." (The latter would be a legitimate reason to give for her going home). Josh did imply that he thinks because Nick is gay he's not "man" enough to win or whatever. But we never saw him say to Nick "Stay on your station, fag" or tower over Nick and say "Shut up, Nick!" I'm just saying, your statement that I quoted above seems rather hypocritical. Apparently Josh is definitely prejudiced towards Nick but the red team is only mistreating Michelle because they think she's not a good chef. Josh did express his prejudice by speaking so, but just because the red team didn't doesn't mean they aren't still prejudiced towards Michelle. Their actions prove it. Meghan telling her "Stay on your station, little one" and T towering over her and constantly telling her to shut up show they think she's beneath them. I'm just trying to point out that it's unfair and a double standard to say Josh is prejudiced towards Nick because of what he said, but then to act like the red team is totally innocent in their equally unfair treatment towards Michelle. The only difference between the 2 situations is that Josh used words, the red team used actions.

Edited May 9, 2015 by BogoGog24

[ZoloftBlob]

The problem is that Josh chose to use sexually charged language several times. His go to for an insult is to say Nick has no balls and is "Suzy Homemake". Nick has made no secret about being gay and Josh hasn't been calling the other men by female names. The women can't stop *not having balls* and Nick can't stop *being gay* and yes, Michelle can't *stop being short*. Now who said Michelle can't be a chef because she is short? And who said Nick aka Suzy can't be a chef because he has no balls? Josh calling Nick "Suzy" is all about implying Nick isn't a man. And Josh told Ramsey in judging that Nick didn't have balls. And Ramsey condoned that. That's the problem.

[BogoGog24]

The problem is that Josh chose to use sexually charged language several times. His go to for an insult is to say Nick has no balls and is "Suzy Homemake". Nick has made no secret about being gay and Josh hasn't been calling the other men by female names. The women can't stop *not having balls* and Nick can't stop *being gay* and yes, Michelle can't *stop being short*. Now who said Michelle can't be a chef because she is short? And who said Nick aka Suzy can't be a chef because he has no balls? Josh calling Nick "Suzy" is all about implying Nick isn't a man. And Josh told Ramsey in judging that Nick didn't have balls. And Ramsey condoned that. That's the problem.

 

To be fair, Ramsay could have potentially expressed disdain towards Josh's comment and it was edited out. I'm sure there is tons of footage left on the cutting room floor we don't see. There could have been more to the Nick-Josh situation than what was shown. The eliminations go on for much longer than what we see. If Ramsay did call out Josh for his comments and we didn't see it, then the shame goes to FOX producers/editors for choosing to leave it out, not Ramsay. But we don't know whether or not Ramsay said anything. In fact, he made an odd comment in an earlier episode, when the men won a reward at a spa and 2 of them, one was Nick, the other may have possibly been Josh but I can't remember, were wearing their robes and Ramsay called them downstairs and said "What are you 2 DOING?", implying something sexual had gone on between the 2, which viewers found odd since Nick is gay. 

 

There are contestants every season that say and do horrible things, not just Josh, but the horrible trio of season 10 that I mentioned, contestants refusing to contribute to the punishment or help with prep but show up for service, contestants that sabotage each other, etc. and Ramsay never says anything. Most of it he never sees, for one thing. And even when contestants have told him that so-and-so was lounging upstairs and didn't help them with the punishment or prep he said he didn't care. He only cares about what goes on in service and challenges. He doesn't care about the drama from contestants or what goes on in dorms, or outside of service/challenges. The only times I've seen him care about contestants sabotaging each other is if he happens to catch them doing it. There have been times when they've gotten away with it though. 

 

Speaking of sabotage, can someone explain the wine in the risotto thing? Is there supposed to be wine in the risotto at all? Or did Josh put it in on purpose? Or is there normally supposed to be wine in it, but because they were serving to underaged kids it was supposed to be left out and Josh forgot? I was confused on that. They made it seem like it wasn't supposed to be there at all and Josh put it in on purpose. 

[ZoloftBlob]

To be fair, Ramsay could have potentially expressed disdain towards Josh's comment and it was edited out.

 

Also to fair, this isn't the first season of Hell's Kitchen, nor is it the first time Gordon has ignored the male chefs making blatently sexist comments about women and gay men. The editing argument goes both ways.

[BogoGog24]

Also to fair, this isn't the first season of Hell's Kitchen, nor is it the first time Gordon has ignored the male chefs making blatently sexist comments about women and gay men. The editing argument goes both ways.

 

I never said that it wasn't possible he didn't say anything. Just that he could have and it was edited out. I'm just saying we have no way of knowing whether he called Josh out for his comment or not. He may have and it was edited out, he may not have. We'll never know.

[ZoloftBlob]

We'll never know because the producer of the show, Gordon Ramsay, makes the choice to not show himself expressing disdain for Josh's comments and the comments of so many other men on so many other seasons of this show.

[cooksdelight]

If you're going to use the word "you" be sure you're talking in general terms. As I said earlier, snark at the people on the show not the people here.

[BogoGog24]

FYI at 1:55 of this video

is where you can find REAL sexist comments. He makes what Josh said look mild in comparison.

[ZoloftBlob]

That kinda proves the point that the production caters to, allows, and encourages sexism. That there's a pattern.

[BogoGog24]

I would say Jason was the worst though and that even if there's been hints of it here and there every season, they've never cast someone as blatantly misogynistic as him since that season. Them casting "villains" is nothing new. Every season there has to be one to amp up the drama. In general, every year people complain about how the show never changes, yet they continue to watch. Similarly, every season these types of people are cast and people continue to watch. As long as they're still getting the ratings they aren't going to change anything, including how they cast.

[kassa]

I think calling him a "villain" is giving too much credit.  He's a jerk with an overinflated opinion of himself, and his every attempt to put down others just makes him look worse.  And they're airing all of that.  He crossed over into clown territory several episodes ago.

 

Now, if one of the superior contestants was making those kind of digs and they were being glossed over in order to prop him up, I would be angry.  But I actually thought Ramsey DID call him out by not letting the dig slide, and asking him to be more specific.  In doing so, he just made him look more idiotic.  He's not better than the three behind him.  Better than the guy next to him?  Maybe.  But he specifically said "behind me, chef,"  which means Millie and Nick.  And Ramsey dismissively looked back at them and then him and said nothing (or they aired nothing).

 

Josh is a tool.  The show is clearly showing him as a tool.  I'm good with that.  

[MajorWoody]

I learned something in this episode.

I never realized the incredible acting chops the blue team members have kept hidden.

To show so much excitement at being told their challenge reward was a cheesy Pirates Dinner show in the tourist district, and then to follow that performance with such feigned enthusiasm at the actual show (in an empty arena, no less) showed acting skills that Sir Laurence Olivier would be proud of. To pretend you have won a prize that others would envy, while chowing down on rubber chicken, gummy instant spuds, and watered down drinks in a souvenir mug showed that even though none of these people are Executive Chef material, they do have a future in Hollywood!

.

[Puffaroo]

I feel like next season the men vs women thing should just be done with. It's just very boring now. For seasons the viewers have been asking for a mixup, like young vs old, east coast vs west coast, line cooks vs caterers, whatever. It would eradicate that gender thing that happens every season and it would also just be a nice change for once.

 

Maybe we should all send an email to Fox/Hell's Kitchen and express that.  Couldn't hurt.

 

I've been to Los Angeles many times and I've never heard of a pirate themed dinner theater. Maybe someone who's local can tell us what/where it is. Or maybe it's training school for Disneyland employees?

I've been to the equivalent in Myrtle Beach, and it was BIG fun.  I'm an adult, and I took two teenagers, and they liked it so much they requested a return visit (which we did, and it was still big fun).  The one in L.A. didn't look as interesting, though.

 

 

I don't have any info about the place but do agree with the poster who said that it sounds like a great place for a kid's birthday party. My guess is that this place has already been book for Survivor Rodney's 31st birthday:)

 

Oh, that's too funny.  I was going to post that I suspected they were separated at birth!  They even look alike.

[Eolivet]

I think there are a lot of good points being made here. Just wanted to comment on one thing:

 

 

 

Also, I do find it to be a double standard that people are only concentrating on Josh's behavior/treatment towards Nick, but barely anyone mentioned the red team's treatment towards Michelle.

 

At least for me, it's because the comments towards Michelle aren't backed up by any kind of established institutional bias against short people, whereas Josh's comments are indicative of a culture of sexism that exists throughout this and all industries. Any man sent to the woman's team who says "I'm being sent there because they need a leader" is making a sexist comment, because "Men are better than women" is a sexist attitude backed up by longstanding cultural biases in a way that "This particular short person is not a good cook" is not.

 

I do agree with the points that Josh is certainly not the worst contestant ever and is certainly more on the "sexist toolbag" end of the spectrum than the "blatant misogynist" end. Heck, if he was competing in a final 3 with Survivor's Dan and Will for Who Wants To Be The Least Offensive Reality Contestant, I'd vote for Josh to win a million bucks, and then use my advantage to vote for him again for good measure. But because I believe he's being kept around for ~entertainment (a.k.a. ~drama), and not his mad risotto-making skills, I believe he should be called out on it. I don't find sexism entertaining, and I wish the show didn't either.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Eolivet