Cagney and Pasty: iFriendships and iRelationships

[Cranberry]

This thread is the place to discuss friendships and romantic relationships on the show. If anyone has a better idea for a catchy title, suggest away!

[FurryFury]

Let's start, then!

 

So far, and we're 6 episodes in, the core of the show is Liv and Ravi, as I see it. Her relationship with Clive is more plot-oriented and doesn't feel like a genuine connection (but there's definitely some real respect there), but it makes sense at this point. I assume it will change. With Ravi, however, I feel like a lot of could be strung out of his interest with zombie stuff, and I assume the show totally will go in this direction, whether he will become an antagonist, like some theorize, or not.

 

Sadly, the other relations aren't that great so far. Peyton feels more like an afterthought whose point still isn't quite clear and may never become clear (I do hope she'll tie into the grander plot like Major and even Liv's family is starting to). And the biggest fail of the show is still Major for me, because I still can't bring myself to see him as a legitimate romantic option. I've always felt like that to create a compelling romance, the best way is to start from the beginning. Either we'll see two people meet, or they've already known each other but weren't especially close. If there already was a romance but now it's over, it's just not as fun to me. So personally, I would have preferred if Major was treated like a part of Liv's life that's in the past and she really, really needs to get over him (and then he can die or move away or something, because he just doesn't bring much to the show). Of course, Major could still work if he had an actual personality beyond being boring and nice. Having less chemistry than Liv/Lowell or even Liv/Blaine (yeah, I know, Blaine's a total villain, but still) doesn't help.

 

I do kinda like Lowell, but he has "temporary love interest" written all over him. He has just been introduced and they are already kissing. Not a good sign.

[Sakura12]

I'm hoping Lowell can replace Major.

 

However, it does show that it doesn't matter if they are are female or male, anyone shoved into the supposed endgame love interest slot has the hardest time being relevant. Mostly because they are always kept apart from the main plots and don't know the secret. Then by the time they do find out the secret we've all gotten to know the other characters and seen them grow and develop with the lead and are not interested in seeing that play out again 2 to 3 seasons later. By that time it's too late for that character to matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

I think all the characters should start in the friendship slot, then see if they have the romantic chemistry and then they can fall in love. That's what I've seen works best for shows. The past love and the person crushing on the oblivious one are hardly ever the popular pairings on tv. 

 

For me it works better because I'd rather see friendships on television over romance. Romance tends to bring the show down with all the angst and drama the writers have to force into the show to keep the couple apart. Friendships are allowed to just run free. That's why I'm loving Ravi and Liv. He supports her but also calls her out when she's acting strange but also knows it's the brain she ate. I do hope we can get come of Liv helping Ravi out though. I don't like one sided friendships. As Sherlock on Elementary said "Friendship, I’ve come to believe, is most accurately defined as two people moving towards the best aspects of one another.  It is a relationship of mutual benefit, mutual gain."

[FurryFury]

I think all the characters should start in the friendship slot, then see if they have the romantic chemistry and then they can fall in love. That's what I've seen works best for shows. The past love and the person crushing on the oblivious one are hardly ever the popular pairings on tv.

 

Agree with you, but not necessarily friendship. I mean, being colleagues who clash heads over work could be an OK start as well, or rivals from two different teams, etc. The point is there should be some other relationship before being thrown into a romance. Designating a character as just a "love interest" from the get-go isn't the way to go. So many shows have suffered from it, yet writers still continue to repeat it... why?

 

For me it works better because I'd rather see friendships on television over romance. Romance tends to bring the show down with all the angst and drama the writers have to force into the show to keep the couple apart.

 

I dunno, I like romances, but they are tricky to write well, tricker than friendships, I'd say. And if they're badly written yet get a lot of focus, the show tends to suffer a lot. So far Major didn't have enough focus, but I'm dreading it in the future - unless the show surprises me (which I will hope for).

Edited April 23, 2015 by FurryFury

[Julia]

For me it works better because I'd rather see friendships on television over romance. Romance tends to bring the show down with all the angst and drama the writers have to force into the show to keep the couple apart. Friendships are allowed to just run free. That's why I'm loving Ravi and Liv. He supports her but also calls her out when she's acting strange but also knows it's the brain she ate. I do hope we can get come of Liv helping Ravi out though. I don't like one sided friendships. As Sherlock on Elementary said "Friendship, I’ve come to believe, is most accurately defined as two people moving towards the best aspects of one another. It is a relationship of mutual benefit, mutual gain."

So much this. I have seen so. many. shows. go down because whatever spark the ship pair have between them gets drowned in a flood of cold water, along with half their IQ points and three quarters of their nuance. At this point I actively hope canon ships don't happen because I don't trust showrunners to do as good a job as your average fanfiction writer.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Julia

[Sakura12]

I like romance, but not the way tv writers tend to write them. They feel they need to force a whole bunch of drama and angst to keep the couple apart for no real reason. When a show becomes too much about that, I start hating the show.

 

I used to be a huge shipper and realized how much my love of the show was dependent on what was happening with the ship, then the show itself. If the ship was together, I loved the episode, if they were apart, the episode sucked. Now as a non-shipper, I watch the show for all it's characters and tend to enjoy more of the show since I'm not thinking about where my ship is at. Don't get me wrong, I do like certain couples together, but I'm not obsessed on whether they are endgame or not. I'll enjoy their scenes regardless of where they end up or who they end up with. 

[FurryFury]

I think it's really hard to ship a couple if you watch on a weekly basis. Basically, I've fallen in love with all of my OTPs via binge-watching. Since then, I've been close to shipping a couple of times and I actually did ship a pairing or two, but never for long. 

 

Right now, the only romantic relationship I'm sorta invested in is Cassie/Cole on 12 monkeys, and I'm dreading they're going to be ruined. Still, it doesn't get too much focus so far, so maybe it won't (and in that show, you don't really have to try much to keep a couple apart).

 

Anyway, segueing back to iZombie... My OTPs are Ravi/Liv friendship and Major/getting away from the show.

Edited April 23, 2015 by FurryFury

[Saje]

Major seems like the 'Riley' (I know I'm equating everyone with Buffy characters but it just seems so obvious to me). The hunky, boring, vanilla guy who develops a dumb self-destructive streak. And if he does become a zombie hunter like some suggest, there's an even bigger thing that makes him Riley-adjacent. 

 

P.S. sorry if any of this has been remarked on before, I looked but didn't see anything. 

[Julia]

Major seems like the 'Riley' (I know I'm equating everyone with Buffy characters but it just seems so obvious to me). The hunky, boring, vanilla guy who develops a dumb self-destructive streak. And if he does become a zombie hunter like some suggest, there's an even bigger thing that makes him Riley-adjacent. 

 

P.S. sorry if any of this has been remarked on before, I looked but didn't see anything.

Yeah, it has, various episodes threads, but folks who want to follow up are probably not looking in the relationship thread. Our gracious mod did create a Veronica Mars thread, though, just for you guys :)

[CinnamonCat]

I just realised that, while I like Major as a character, I have a really difficult time picturing him as Liv's potential significant other. And I wondered something: should Major even be considered a love interest? I mean, while he and Liv do still have feelings for each other, neither of them thinks acting on those feelings is a good idea, and right now the chances of them getting back together are really slim. And honestly, I think the story of them as friends would be much more interesting than that of them as a couple.

[Saje]

Yeah, it has, various episodes threads, but folks who want to follow up are probably not looking in the relationship thread. Our gracious mod did create a Veronica Mars thread, though, just for you guys :)

 

Ah, but Riley's from Buffy, not VM. I get why a lot of viewers are seeing all the similarities, in several shows! :)

[Julia]

Ah, but Riley's from Buffy, not VM. I get why a lot of viewers are seeing all the similarities, in several shows! :)

Apparently Dollhouse is in the mix too. I think it's a general other show thing.

I'm only vaguely Buffy-aware - is Riley the character played by the hunky actor who played a patient of the week on House who a lot of folks got mad at?

[Saje]

Not sure, but Riley was played by Marc Blucas: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089456/

[Julia]

Not sure, but Riley was played by Marc Blucas: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0089456/

Yeah, that's the one, thanks. He had his own Castle episode too.

[Minneapple]

I like Major and Ravi's friendship. It helps connect Major to the bigger plot and it's about the only thing that's given Major a personality so far. Plus they have like a thousand times more chemistry than Major and Liv.

 

I do enjoy Liv/Lowell (OHMYGOD THEIR SMUSHNAME IS LIVWELL KILL ME NOW), but I'm too afraid to make them my OTP so far. He's pretty much her tryout boyfriend after Major. Mostly I think I'm just crushing on Bradley James. I'm going to have to hunt up some Merlin episodes somewhere.

 

I like romance, but not the way tv writers tend to write them. They feel they need to force a whole bunch of drama and angst to keep the couple apart for no real reason. When a show becomes too much about that, I start hating the show.

 

Yeah, this. It's just so frustrating. On Arrow, it's getting to the point where I roll my eyes whenever Felicity and Oliver share a scene.

[FurryFury]

I just realised that, while I like Major as a character, I have a really difficult time picturing him as Liv's potential significant other. And I wondered something: should Major even be considered a love interest? I mean, while he and Liv do still have feelings for each other, neither of them thinks acting on those feelings is a good idea, and right now the chances of them getting back together are really slim. And honestly, I think the story of them as friends would be much more interesting than that of them as a couple.

I continue to wonder about that... But I think scenes like the one at the beginning of the latest episode (with him being drugged and trying to flirt with Liv and making it clear he's very jealous) are probably intended to show that they are a potential romance. I agree that they should drop this and just treat him as a friend. He's simply not interesting enough for a long-term love interest.

 

(OHMYGOD THEIR SMUSHNAME IS LIVWELL KILL ME NOW)

 

Ahahahaha I think it bodes well for their future, Logan and Veronica had a killer ship name too!

Edited April 24, 2015 by FurryFury

[Sakura12]

Yeah, this. It's just so frustrating. On Arrow, it's getting to the point where I roll my eyes whenever Felicity and Oliver share a scene.

 

I stopped watching Arrow, but that is one of the shows I was talking about where too much drama and angst start to ruin the show. 

 

I do enjoy Liv/Lowell (OHMYGOD THEIR SMUSHNAME IS LIVWELL KILL ME NOW), but I'm too afraid to make them my OTP so far. He's pretty much her tryout boyfriend after Major. Mostly I think I'm just crushing on Bradley James. I'm going to have to hunt up some Merlin episodes somewhere.

 

I'm not a huge fan of shipper names, unless they are fun, like LivWell and LoVe. Over on Bates Motel we have Dylemma which is all kinds of awesome if you know about that show. Doesn't mean I ship them, just that I like their names. 

[Julia]

Mostly I think I'm just crushing on Bradley James. I'm going to have to hunt up some Merlin.

Hulu is your friend. He and Guinevere make a very pretty couple, unless you're from the school which holds that he and Merlin make a very pretty couple.

[FurryFury]

I'm not sure I dig the potential of Ravi/Peyton. She still feels like a character that would be best served by killing her off in a shocking manner, but I'd prefer it done for Liv rather than Ravi (otherwise it would be too much like fridging). 

 

Also, after watching this episode I've decided there was a good reason the show's paired with The Flash. Liv not telling Major about zombies "for his own good" felt exactly like Barry/Iris, and I've just about had enough of this trope. It does help that this time, it's a man who's the unknowing side, but I still hate it. Let's hope this show deconstructs the hell out of it by showing how much worse will Major's life become than if she just told him.

[BPOX]

I have hopes that Liv may come around after some consideration. He took her off guard.

[wowbagger]

I really like Ravi and Liv's friendship. It's nice to see attractive people of opposite sexes on my screen and have them allowed to be friends, without the traps of 'will they/won't they'. Not that I'm against romance, at all, but I do think that TV romances can fall into a number of ruts that TV friendships can escape.

Amen on Liv/Major. I rolled my eyes at Major initially, muttering 'Duncan Kane' every time he showed up. But then the show began duffing up that pretty face and giving him his own edges and stories, and at some point a little before the Season One finale I found myself thinking 'Hang on. When did the Ken Doll become one of my favourite characters on the show?' So Major? Can absolutely stay. But the Liv/Major thing needs to be retired. Major's moved past his role as reminder of What Liv Lost, and if you have to have him make soft eyes at someone, couldn't it be Ravi? He's basically doing it already anyway.....

Also, also: love Ravi, Clive and Liv's collegial friendship. There's something about the interplay between Ravi's enthusiasm, Clive's deadpan snark, and whatever brain Liv is on that week (although I tend to find the Case of the Week usually the weakest part of an episode). Just so delightful.

They need to find a way to integrate Peyton's character. I have little sense of her, and can't get invested in either her friendship with Liv (occasional flickers of charm in stripper episodes aside) or her romance with Ravi. And my soul is shrivelling at the thought of a Ravi/Blaine/Peyton triangle. Please, no. What better way to wreck Blaine and Ravi's entertaining, dynamic characters.

[Canada]

I just realised that, and I may be remembering this wrong, at the beginning of season 2, we saw Liv's family treating her like a pariah because she wouldn't donate blood to save her brother.  Stupid storyline, since lots of other blood is available in hospitals!!  But we never revisited that storyline throughout the rest of the season.  Liv's family was never mentioned again, that I can recall.  Seems like a pretty cold family!

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, Canada said:

I just realised that, and I may be remembering this wrong, at the beginning of season 2, we saw Liv's family treating her like a pariah because she wouldn't donate blood to save her brother.  Stupid storyline, since lots of other blood is available in hospitals!!  But we never revisited that storyline throughout the rest of the season.  Liv's family was never mentioned again, that I can recall.  Seems like a pretty cold family!

It wasn't just blood though. It was either a rare type, or bone marrow or something that Only Liv Had. Whatever it was was dropped like a hot rock, though.

[hincandenza]

On 7/5/2016 at 5:49 PM, Canada said:

I just realised that, and I may be remembering this wrong, at the beginning of season 2, we saw Liv's family treating her like a pariah because she wouldn't donate blood to save her brother.  Stupid storyline, since lots of other blood is available in hospitals!!  But we never revisited that storyline throughout the rest of the season.  Liv's family was never mentioned again, that I can recall.  Seems like a pretty cold family!

Yeah, that was a hot potato drop.  They do reference it once more later in season 2, a throwaway line where Liv is lying about having her brother in the apartment (can't recall who she was trying to shoo away, possibly Peyton), and is asked, "Oh, so you.... patched that all up, huh?", but yeah, it's never mentioned again.  In any case, her brother is presumably okay by now, and yet he and Liv's mom are still holding a grudge months later, past Christmas and New Year's.

On 7/6/2016 at 4:43 PM, jhlipton said:

It wasn't just blood though. It was either a rare type, or bone marrow or something that Only Liv Had. Whatever it was was dropped like a hot rock, though.

It was specified as O negative, which is the universal donor- any other blood type can receive O negative- but only O negative donors can give to O negative recipients.  It is the case that O- gets overused since it's basically the perfect blood for when you don't know for sure... but it's still like 5% of the population, so shouldn't be that hard to do.  Obviously, her not donating blood didn't kill her brother... although 3 months in the hospital seems excessive, that's presumably healing from wounds from the blast, not lack of timely donor blood.

 

On an unrelated note, I still don't know how I feel about Peyton as a character or actress- just binged watched both seasons in the last week on Netflix- but lordy, she really does have "several body parts to envy" as I think Liv's stripper brain once described.  She's apparently been upgraded to series regular for season 3, sadly because it looks like they'll set up a Peyton/Blaine/Ravi love triangle (crazy!  Ravi is an absolute catch and a half, and even Peyton should be able to see that over the momentary charms of amnesiac psychopath, heroic rescue or not).

[JustaPerson]

On 11/21/2016 at 4:42 PM, hincandenza said:

(crazy!  Ravi is an absolute catch and a half, and even Peyton should be able to see that over the momentary charms of amnesiac psychopath, heroic rescue or not).

THIS. The way their last scene together was left I wasn't optimistic about the love triangle but Ravi is the ONLY choice here. If Peyton doesn't choose him I have to question every decision she makes because clearly her judgement is seriously whack.