Captain Sean Renard: He's A Phone-y One!

[Actionmage]

Sasha Roiz plays the secretive Portland PD Captain of Detectives. Being a half-Zauberbiest, and the out-of-wedlock-son to Royalty and a hexenbiest, his family has done everything from try to kill him throughout his life to steal Nick "from" Sean. He seems to be working with the European Resistance against the Royals. 

[ottilie]

My more sophisticated friend pointed out that Reynard is the name of a famous trickster character in european folktales, going back hundred of years. Reynard is a fox character who plays a similar role to Br'er rabbit in africa, or coyote or raven in north american stories. They are flawed characters who play tricks and run into trouble, but they also are charismatic and able ally with friends or come back into favor after cheating someone.

  Do you think the script writers could have possibly randomly selected his name?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynard

The figure of Reynard is thought to have originated in Alsace-Lorraine folklore from where it spread to France, the Low Countries, and Germany.[1] An extensive treatment of the character is the Old French Le Roman de Renart written by Pierre de Saint-Cloud around 1170, which sets the typical setting. Reynard has been summoned to the court of king Noble, or Leo, the Lion, to answer charges brought against him by Isengrim the Wolf. Other anthropomorphic animals, including Bruin the Bear, Baldwin the Ass, Tibert (Tybalt) the Cat, all attempt one stratagem or another. The stories typically involve satire whose usual butts are the aristocracy and the clergy, making Reynard a peasant-hero character.[1] The story of the preaching fox found in the Reynard literature was used in church art by the Catholic Church as propaganda against the Lollards.[2] Reynard's principal castle, Maupertuis, is available to him whenever he needs to hide away from his enemies. Some of the tales feature Reynard's funeral, where his enemies gather to deliver maudlin elegies full of insincere piety, and which feature Reynard's posthumous revenge. Reynard's wife Hermeline appears in the stories, but plays little active role, although in some versions she remarries when Reynard is thought dead, thereby becoming one of the people he plans revenge upon. Isengrim (Alternate French spelling : Ysengrin) is Reynard's most frequent antagonist and foil, and generally ends up outwitted, though he occasionally gets revenge.

http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Reynard_the_Fox

http://bestiary.ca/etexts/morley1889/morley1889.htm

[Prevailing Wind]

Baldwin the Ass?  They knew about Alec in France in 1170??!?!

[iMonrey]

I think it's more likely the name Renard was chosen simply because it sounds French, and Renard is always speaking French on the phone. Which is odd considering his family castle is in Vienna. Go figure. If there's any connection to Renard the Fox it's that his character is as sly as one, but he's not a Fuchsbau, which would be the logical choice, but instead a Zauberbiest. 

[Actionmage]

I know! I was so disappointed that the Captain wasn't a fuchsbau; just as well, I like the regular fox they have. (Not that Sasha is chopped liver...)

[TudorQueen]

I love Renard - his preternatural poise, his intellect, his perfectly laundered white shirts and well-tailored suits, his well-developed sense of irony. I don't even mind that his most significant relationship seems to be with his cell phone.

 

His IQ points seem to have taken a dive in the last couple of episodes, but when he recovers from the shooting - he HAS to recover!! - maybe he'll pick them up again. And it's too bad Adalind went totally evil again in her quest for Diana, because they could have made a really interesting pair.

[Actionmage]

I have come to appreciate Mr. Roiz, but damn, have they underserved and wasted this man this season!

 

Sure, he was important in the Save Monroe arc, but other than mysteriously bleed and losing the politicking Royal game to cousins, there isn't much he's done in S4. He has thoughtfully gone shirt open, if not shirt  off a few times, so that was nice. Yet, his recovery and "relapse" has drug out longer than Juliette's amnesia plot.

[OtterMommy]

 

Interesting discussion. I'm currently binge watching the show. I'm on S2E21. The whole memory loss thing was terrible. Not only did it destroy Juliette, but it destroyed Sean in my eyes. S1 built him up to be something menacing, someone who'd have a big impact/arc. The scene where he forced the other wessen to kneel before him, set a good tone. But the memory loss/sex obsession plot absolutely killed and neutered him as a character. It annoys me that this is how Nick found out he's a Prince. Such a lame way to revel an important fact.

 

Yeah, the memory loss crap was not Renard's shining moment, but that isn't what really harmed the character for me (I won't say "destroyed" because, in his case, I think the show might be able to get back on track).

 

When the show started, Renard was this dark character of very questionable motives.  He seemed like a competent chief and a boss who looked out for his employees' best interest.  But then he was involved in all this VERY shady business and was out to kill Nick's aunt and it didn't measure up--and that was what was so great about him. You never knew what side of the story he was one--or if he was on either side--or if he was on both. He was a complete enigma, and a very interesting element.

 

Now?  He's a freakin' fairy Godfather.  Frankly, he's just dull...and it is a shame.  Sasha Roiz has been wasted in this show for at least 2 seasons now.  The hints thrown out for season 5 sound like it might get better, but we'll have to wait and see.

[spaulding]

Interesting discussion. I'm currently binge watching the show. I'm on S2E21. The whole memory loss thing was terrible. Not only did it destroy Juliette, but it destroyed Sean in my eyes. S1 built him up to be something menacing, someone who'd have a big impact/arc. The scene where he forced the other wessen to kneel before him, set a good tone. But the memory loss/sex obsession plot absolutely killed and neutered him as a character. It annoys me that this is how Nick found out he's a Prince. Such a lame way to revel an important fact.

 

I agree.  Renard was known as a BAMF and known for his shirtless rage from S1.  Now, he's a boring good guy.  Plus, Nick seems to trust him now despite Renard putting a hit on Aunt Marie. 

 

I don't think that the show knows what to do with Renard.  I have no idea why this show decided to move him into the good guy category.  Nick needs a Rogue's Gallery. 

 

Renard is best when he's gray.  He had no problem with sending a wesen priest(?) to kill somebody or with having somebody assassinated at the precinct.  He may be a captain, but he has certainly looked out for himself. 

 

When he's gray, he's very interesting. 

 

Last season, Renard got to play a bad guy because Jack the Ripper inhabited his body.  It's a weaselly way of getting Renard to be a bad guy but still keep him in the good guy category.  It was a weak move on the writers's part.

[luckyroll3]

As long as there are more reasons for Renard to not have a shirt on, I could care less for whether he's good, bad, or in-between.  And yes, I'm shallow!

[greenbean]

When the show started, Renard was this dark character of very questionable motives. 

 

Yeah, I was hoping this facet to his character would feature heavily. But since the reveal, it seems to have fizzled out and he's only desperate for Nick to trust him.

 

It also bugged me that Nick easily matched Sean in a fight. The way Sean was built up, I thought he'd be stronger, but it seems like the show will not allow anyone to best Nick. Which is boring imo, I've started to wonder if he's a Gary Stu. I'd like it if at least the Royals were stronger, but Sean chose not to harm Nick. That would be an interesting dynamic. Sean is better when there's a threat to him.

[Crim]

I don't think that the show knows what to do with Renard.  I have no idea why this show decided to move him into the good guy category.  Nick needs a Rogue's Gallery. Renard is best when he's gray.

 

Sadly, this can be said about so, so many other characters. That's the show's main problem right there! The good/bad guy switch is where it was headed with Adalind too, and in reverse, with Juliette. The writers do this shuffle like they can't think of any other plots at the moment.

 

And the neutering is what they did with Monroe too. 

 

The more the show goes on, the worse it gets. Of course, the fact that Renard got pulled into the baby drama, then the Juliette drama, did not help one bit. I'd rather he had his own plot line for a bit, like he had with the keys and with the Resistance meetings. I'd take Royal intrigues over the endless baby daddy stories.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Crim

[icewolf]

Does Sasha ask himself everyday why the hell he is still on the show? I'm sure the paycheck is nice, but I imagine he hasn't been challenged at all as an actor since shady Renard from season 1. All the storyline time is wasted on Adalind and Juliette.

We just get him constantly ripping his shirt off, which has become a running gag. Also talking on the phone.

[OtterMommy]

Does Sasha ask himself everyday why the hell he is still on the show? I'm sure the paycheck is nice, but I imagine he hasn't been challenged at all as an actor since shady Renard from season 1. All the storyline time is wasted on Adalind and Juliette.

We just get him constantly ripping his shirt off, which has become a running gag. Also talking on the phone.

 

I wonder this too--although not just about Sasha.  I guess it comes down to, at least right now, Grimm is a paying job in TV and those aren't always easy to come by.  Plus, the cast and crew are apparently unusually friendly, not just with each other but also with guests, extras, etc. Let's face it, you don't hear about diva behavior from this show like you do some others (looking at you, all shows in Shondaland).

 

Frankly, I would like to see Renard move up a bit in the show.  I think there was a brief window of opportunity to make Adalind a worthy foil for Nick, but they've long since shut that window.  In a lot of ways, Renard is really one of the more interesting characters in the show.

[OtterMommy]

From the Adalind thread....

 

Once Nick and Renard had their blowout in season 2, the two moved on and gradually rebuilt their trust.  However, Renard should kicked Juliette out of his house instead of having sex with the woman.

 

You know, I just can't decide if the supposed Juliette/Renard sex was lazy or sloppy. 

 

As I've said on other threads, I believe that there was supposed to be a story line where Renard and Juliette DID sleep together--as hinted in various interviews where the showrunners and cast said that Renard would do something that would make it impossible for him to work with Nick every again.  But then TPTB thought better of it or realized that they had to do something to get the show back under control and edited it all out...except this one scene remained for reasons that are beyond me.

 

But, the scene was there, and even though the writers refuse to confirm or deny that the deed was actually done, the viewers really don't have a choice but to accept that it did.  And then it goes nowhere.

 

Sigh...my frustration with this show is beyond description.  I love the premise, I love that it is set in Portland, and I love the eye-candy, but  THE CREATIVE TEAM IS MADE UP OF A BUNCH OF MORONS!  Ugh!  I want to go slap them all...and then fire them all....

[Darklazr]

From the Adalind thread....

 

 

You know, I just can't decide if the supposed Juliette/Renard sex was lazy or sloppy. 

 

As I've said on other threads, I believe that there was supposed to be a story line where Renard and Juliette DID sleep together--as hinted in various interviews where the showrunners and cast said that Renard would do something that would make it impossible for him to work with Nick every again.  But then TPTB thought better of it or realized that they had to do something to get the show back under control and edited it all out...except this one scene remained for reasons that are beyond me.

 

But, the scene was there, and even though the writers refuse to confirm or deny that the deed was actually done, the viewers really don't have a choice but to accept that it did.  And then it goes nowhere.

 

Sigh...my frustration with this show is beyond description.  I love the premise, I love that it is set in Portland, and I love the eye-candy, but  THE CREATIVE TEAM IS MADE UP OF A BUNCH OF MORONS!  Ugh!  I want to go slap them all...and then fire them all....

 

The show should have cut the Renard/Juliette scene or at the very least, have him turn her down and send the twit packing from his home.  I just never bought Renard being the least bit sexually interested in Juliette, even when the two were supposed to be obsessed with each other.  Renard seemed to be into blondes (Mia, Adalind, and Katherine), otherwise, he could have gone after Juliette back in season 1 instead of Adalind drugging and putting the moves on Hank.

 

One more thing, Renard was beaten to a pulp by Kenneth, and yet he is completely healed while staring over at the other side of the bed?!

Edited November 20, 2015 by Darklazr

[OtterMommy]

The show should have cut the Renard/Juliette scene or at the very least, have him turn her down and send the twit packing from his home.

 

You know, I can almost imagine the creative team watching that episode and then saying, "Oh, Crap!" in unison when they realize that they forgot to cut it.  Because, really, that's the only explanation...

[OtterMommy]

Wow, I really had to search for this thread....

 

From the 511 thread...

For what purpose, though? What does Renard becoming mayor do for the PR lady, or for Nick, or for this show really?

See, I think there's a desire here (as evidenced by your "sexy pants" remark) to keep Renard a morally ambiguous character because we want to root for him and have him turn out to be a good guy. But morally "grey" means he doesn't do anything. He sits around and makes mysterious phone calls - that's all keeping him "grey" has gotten us. No story for him. And having him be mayor doesn't accomplish much in making him heroic that keeping him as a police chief does. That's why there needs to be something more to him.

He spent all of season one saying Nick was important to his "plans" and he had definite designs on power when he had those coins. It's time to circle back to all of that and pull Renard off the back burner once and for all.

And heck, as stupid as Nick has been about this whole Adalind thing, who's to say we can't root for an evil Renard to triumph over an idiotic Grimm? Plus he can still be shirtless :-)

 

 

Gray characters can be done and they can be incredibly interesting.  Unfortunately, they just can't do that on this show.  Seriously.  To the gray characters either mean sending the character off to do something that is not involved with anything else for episodes and episodes (and sometimes seasons and seasons) or putting them in ugly ass gray sweaters.

 

I liked the idea of Renard being a gray character back when I had even a smidgen of faith left in this creative team.  Now, however, I'm voting for full out villain for him.  And what's wrong with that?  Think about the first Avengers movie--you had 6 great heroes, but who stole the show?  Loki!  (In my opinion, of course...).  Villains, when done well, can be great fun and sometimes so much so that the viewers actually root for them.

 

Now, the question is whether or not this show can pull off an actual "in house" (instead of episodic) villain.  I don't know...they tried that for 4 years with Adalind and it never worked and now we have whatever crap space-taker she's become.  I do think that Sasha Roiz is a stronger actor--like SWM, he's stronger than his role--and might be able to pull it off in spite of the creative team.

Edited March 10, 2016 by OtterMommy

[ottilie]

I think I might have actually seen Sasha Roiz in Portland in a van where I randomly came upon their filming when bicycling home from work, although I might have been mistaken at a distance. And I would feel embarrassed to be a stalker type who actually runs up to bother actors. Of course, the one time I actually saw one of the Grimm actors it was the guy who plays Bud who showed up with his friends at a vegan cookbook release party at Microcosm books on Williams, and I didn't say anything but I bet he actually would have enjoyed talking about his line of work and answering questions.

  A bunch of universal studios trucks (they apparently require about 20 trucks of equipment) were arriving near Lloyd mall, and they are currently carrying a lot of boards and lights into a house across the street from the Irvington Club on Thompson st. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boschke%E2%80%93Boyd_House. Interestingly, it is directly across the street from another house used in a previous episode, called Henry Slocum's house: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=zvv9Zgrd9E4Q.kTqYn5wM2xkM

 

I agree - Sasha Roiz is one of the best actors - demonstrated when he totally had to transform at the drop of a hat in the Jack the Ripper episode, and a few other moments. Letting him display his weakness for seeking great political power would be fun, but it would also be fun if he could be a zauberbiest for a while too.

Edited March 10, 2016 by ottilie

[TVSpectator]

Wow, I really had to search for this thread....

 

From the 511 thread...

 

Gray characters can be done and they can be incredibly interesting.  Unfortunately, they just can't do that on this show.  Seriously.  To the gray characters either mean sending the character off to do something that is not involved with anything else for episodes and episodes (and sometimes seasons and seasons) or putting them in ugly ass gray sweaters.

 

I liked the idea of Renard being a gray character back when I had even a smidgen of faith left in this creative team.  Now, however, I'm voting for full out villain for him.  And what's wrong with that?  Think about the first Avengers movie--you had 6 great heroes, but who stole the show?  Loki!  (In my opinion, of course...).  Villains, when done well, can be great fun and sometimes so much so that the viewers actually root for them.

 

Now, the question is whether or not this show can pull off an actual "in house" (instead of episodic) villain.  I don't know...they tried that for 4 years with Adalind and it never worked and now we have whatever crap space-taker she's become.  I do think that Sasha Roiz is a stronger actor--like SWM, he's stronger than his role--and might be able to pull it off in spite of the creative team.

 

 

Loki was a great villain and he was already introduced and fleshed out as a smart capable 3-dimensional villain back in Thor. That being said, I have to agree that the writers just can't do gray characters on this show. Overall, the only reason Renard hasn't been chopped to pieces (unlike Nick, Adalind, and Juliette) was because they had him go off on his own adventures that were never really that interesting (but had the potential to become interesting) and barely dovedtailed to the main plot. 

[tpel]

I don't want Renard to go full-on villain at this point, just because we've had so much jumping from one end of the moral spectrum to the other lately (Juliette, Adalind) and it's been done so badly. I'm sure SR could pull off a bad-guy character well -- I agree with OtterMommy that he is one of the strongest actors on the show -- it's just that there has been too much extreme flip-flopping already. Now, bringing him back to gray, that would be cool. His transition from gray to (mostly) good came about because he drank that purification potion. Potions wear off eventually. I could totally see his dabbling in politics triggering his latent power-hungry tendencies. What would be the most fun, I think, would be for him to try to take over Black Claw from the inside -- not in order to shut it down, as a purely "good" character might, but also not in order to let it operate the way it has been operating, as a purely "bad" character might. He sees that the power in the wesen world is shifting away from the royals and toward this more grass-roots group. Renard goes where the power is. Of course, Renard likes civil order and has no use for random acts of violence, so if he took over, the looting and killing would go way down. But his agenda and Nick's would, in the big picture, diverge. 

[iMonrey]

tpel your wishes for Renard would work if this show was well written and had plenty more seasons to explore those possibilities. But I fear that's wishful thinking. In the off chance it doesn't get cancelled after this season it's probably got just one more to go. They need to start moving towards an end-game and if there's going to be an ultimate "big bad" for the Grimm heroes to fight, I prefer it be someone we've been watching for that past five seasons rather than some vague shadow organization run by people we never heard of before. Also, there is no need to bring Renard "back" into a morally grey area - he's been stuck there for five years. It's time for him to commit one way or another.

[tpel]

Based on tonight's episode, I might be getting my wish. Black Claw is recruiting Renard, and he seems to be tempted. Of course, what comes of this, and whether it is done with any shred of plausibility remains to be seen!

[OtterMommy]

From the everything wrong thread:

 

Why would Renard need Nick's protection from the Royal's?  Renard originally wanted Marie's key and gave it back because he told Kelly that Nick was a lot more important than a key.  Yes, having a Grimm working for Renard in the beginning meant having an advantage over his family in Vienna, but now it's just normal police wesen cases of the week.  I have no idea why Nick did not tell Renard about going to Germany since he now had all of the keys, since the man had shown zero interest now that Eric and his father were dead.

We can agree to disagree on Elisabeth's role in helping Nick regain his powers, her focus was clearly on her son and finding her granddaughter.

 

 

Much was made in seasons 1 and 2 about how important it was to Renard to have a Grimm on his side.  He told both Adalind and Catherine as much and, later, he even told Nick in a sort of "hey, we're in this together" sort of way the same thing.  This is part of the reason why he never wanted Adalind to go after Nick, but instead target Hank.  He knew that Juliette was the one thing tying Nick to Portland and, if that relationship were to end, he would have no way to keep Nick around.

 

The royals employed Grimms to do their dirty work--or at least that was mentioned a time or two--and Nick had proven his worth by defeating pretty much every creature that was sent to kill him.  Because of that, he was of GREAT value to Renard.  And Nick, being Nick, just sort of goes along with it all, waiting for the next thing to happen.

 

Renard had also previously floated the theory that Nick would be very dangerous to him if he weren't in some way tied to him.  I think his words were "A Grimm on his own is no good for any of us."  So, Elizabeth could help tie Nick to Renard by helping him.  Again, what loving witch of a mother wouldn't do that?

 

Elizabeth had her own power thing with the royals--she was the king's mistress, the queen tried to have her killed, and apparently danger still existed to the point that she herself was always on the run.  She knew that her son was never truly safe from the royals and her son was very clearly incredibly important to her--why else would she give up some of her "life force" with that thing with the double headed snake?  Getting her baby boy back his little Grimm was something she was glad to do--for Renard.

Edited April 5, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

From the everything wrong thread:

 

Much was made in seasons 1 and 2 about how important it was to Renard to have a Grimm on his side.  He told both Adalind and Catherine as much and, later, he even told Nick in a sort of "hey, we're in this together" sort of way the same thing.  This is part of the reason why he never wanted Adalind to go after Nick, but instead target Hank.  He knew that Juliette was the one thing tying Nick to Portland and, if that relationship were to end, he would have no way to keep Nick around.

 

The royals employed Grimms to do their dirty work--or at least that was mentioned a time or two--and Nick had proven his worth by defeating pretty much every creature that was sent to kill him.  Because of that, he was of GREAT value to Renard.  And Nick, being Nick, just sort of goes along with it all, waiting for the next thing to happen.

 

Renard had also previously floated the theory that Nick would be very dangerous to him if he weren't in some way tied to him.  I think his words were "A Grimm on his own is no good for any of us."  So, Elizabeth could help tie Nick to Renard by helping him.  Again, what loving witch of a mother wouldn't do that?

 

Elizabeth had her own power thing with the royals--she was the king's mistress, the queen tried to have her killed, and apparently danger still existed to the point that she herself was always on the run.  She knew that her son was never truly safe from the royals and her son was very clearly incredibly important to her--why else would she give up some of her "life force" with that thing with the double headed snake?  Getting her baby boy back his little Grimm was something she was glad to do--for Renard.

 

All of your comments make sense, because Renard really needed Nick until AFTER the obsession when the truth was out that he was a member of the Royal family and a Zauberbiest.  After the obsession, Nick did not trust Renard at all and the two had to work to rebuild their employer and employee status.  Nick really should have insisted that his mother stay the eff out of Adalind and Renard's baby drama.  Adalind should have left town on her own with Diana.