S07.E20: Sleeper

[MDL]

Were these things ever "explained/answered" (again, within the overall dreck of the plot) :

 

Why did Castle have to make that money drop?

 

Why did it take 2 months to complete the "assignment"?

 

Why leave Castle on a boat in mid ocean?

[pepper]

Were these things ever "explained/answered" (again, within the overall dreck of the plot) :

 

Why did Castle have to make that money drop?

 

Why did it take 2 months to complete the "assignment"?

 

Why leave Castle on a boat in mid ocean?

My understanding is that those things are floating idly in the realm of ongoing mystery that will never be fully explained, but with which Castle and Beckett both seem to have made peace. Like a band-aid floating in a swimming pool. We're all grossed out by it, but we certainly don't want to touch it if that's the only way to have it removed...

[oberon55]

For once the lack of continuity works in my favor. Next week the whole rotten mess will be forgotten. Even Castle & Esposito will be buds again. All will be right in Castle land until the next mythology (with compelling, high-stakes story-telling) raises its ugly head.

[TV Anonymous]

Invisible suit? Underground mission to Mars simulator? Time traveler? And now memory alteration and removal. Maybe the genre of this show needs to be changed from police procedural to fantasy. More and more the show is getting as realistic as The Flash.

[readster]

My understanding is that those things are floating idly in the realm of ongoing mystery that will never be fully explained, but with which Castle and Beckett both seem to have made peace. Like a band-aid floating in a swimming pool. We're all grossed out by it, but we certainly don't want to touch it if that's the only way to have it removed...

 

 Exactly. It was never thought out. The entire shooting could have been easy with the reveal about what happened in Thailand but the money drop and Montreal make no sense outside to think that it was deversion from the real mission. to make it look like Castle ran out on his wedding like the camping site. Of course, replacing the guy and altering the records to make it look like the douche CIA agent really was horribly done. That made no sense.

[madmaverick]

Especially since Thailand is a Buddhist country with a constitutional monarch ruled by a military junta. If you wanted an Asian Muslim country try Indonesia or Malaysia. Even the Phillippines has a strong Muslim minority with some jihadist leanings.

 

I think they chose Thailand just to get in the ladyboy joke.

There has been a long running insurgency in southern Thailand which has escalated in recent years, and some believe the increased violence is due to infiltration by foreign jihadist groups.  Nowhere near Chiang Mai though.  Thailand has a tiny Muslim minority but they tend to be moderate.   Of course their main conflict nowadays is the political conflict between the red shirts and the yellow shirts.  Northern Thailand does have its share of drug and human trafficking problems.  I wouldn't be surprised it they did choose Thailand for the joke though.  It might have been harder for them to joke about a country like Yemen right now. ;) Thailand's a great tourist destination, but now I wonder if it's now off the list of Caskett honeymoon destinations, a honeymoon that they may never go on at this rate?

 

I shudder to think what a show like Lost would be like in the hands of Marlowe or Amann.  But then again, I never watched till the end of that show so no idea how the mythologies turned out.  Mythologies have a habit of becoming unwieldy beasts and writers often bite off more than they can chew, yet they can't seem to resist them.  Is it the desire to always go big instead of going small?  I find that it's more satisfying to become invested in characters rather than mythologies because those rarely resolve themselves in a truly satisfying way.

Edited April 22, 2015 by madmaverick

[readster]

 

I shudder to think what a who like Lost would be like in the hands of Marlowe or Amann.  But then again, I never watched till the end of that show so no idea how the mythologies turned out.  Mythologies have a habit of becoming unwieldy beasts and writers often bite off more than they can chew, yet they can't seem to resist them.  Is it the desire to always go big instead of going small?  I find that it's more satisfying to become invested in characters rather than mythologies because those rarely resolve themselves in a truly satisfying way.

 

 Very true, shows like: X-Files, Alias, CSI, Prison Break, Grey's Anatomy, ER, Everwood, Brothers & Sisters, Smallville have been series where it just became such a hassle to not only follow but when the TPTB were bent on making shows last longer than they should have or trying to work things around actors leaving or writing changing. I've seen many shows keep it going from: Stargate, Star Trek, Fringe and of course Lost that kept it going. Even if they were lost a few times they found a way to make it work. Here with this story idea it was just poorly planned and was more along the lines of: "We don't want them married." that really messed things up. Here you have such a forced story to get what the creators wanted not what the fans or where the characters were going. I mean if they are doing what they plan in the season finale with what happened to Castle was what lead him to be where he is. That is mythology but it doesn't change the characters. Its like with Beckett's mythology that engulfed the show for 6 seasons. When you look at it, everything lined up and it all traced back Kate and her family and loved ones paying for something stupid a young cop got himself involved with. Even if the conclusion as rushed. Let's face it, in life we end up causing a domino effect over something we don't believe is going to ruin things but it does. Here with the entire terrorist CIA cover up. It didn't add anything at all because the only reason Rick was used was because he was told about the lives in danger and an old classmate and he was a "world figure." Nothing aligned correctly at all from the CIA causing the car explosions, the time table, the injury or the characters acting like they hadn't gone through this crap for the last 6 years. It was: "Castle ran out on his wedding for no good reason, oh wait... its a conspiracy mythology that will make sense in the end."  Instead, it didn't and there was no natural steps in the story like with Beckett's. It was all thrown over because the writers and producers didn't want to try and make Caskett work as a regular coupled. They just gave up.

[verdana]

Castle is successful mystery writer he's not an action movie hero and he shouldn't be getting involved in CIA covert operations to save the world by some mysterious means that no one can be bothered to properly explain.  I wish they would try and remember who the characters are - a writer and his cop muse fighting crime - and stop trying to involve the characters in these increasingly outlandish kind of situations which are laughable and end up with characters having to say lines like never mind the wedding you were saving the world! But Marlowe seems to love this silliness but alas the drama lacks emotional punch and fails to develop the characters in any significant way.  Can anyone say Castle has truly grown as as character through what he has experienced or that we've discovered new interesting things about him? The only thing the writers seem to have given the fans is a headache.  

 

Invisible suit? Underground mission to Mars simulator? Time traveler? And now memory alteration and removal. Maybe the genre of this show needs to be changed from police procedural to fantasy. More and more the show is getting as realistic as The Flash.

 

I can only see these kind of fantasy elements becoming more a part of the show (if it continues) as the writers frantically scrabble around for ideas and I think that's going to be to its detriment. 

Edited April 22, 2015 by verdana

[readster]

 

can only see these kind of fantasy elements becoming more a part of the show (if it continues) as the writers frantically scrabble around for ideas and I think that's going to be to its detriment.

Hey we have serial killers who can outwit the police and the FBI. Have secret mansions out in the middle of the woods and turn people evil by saying they are. We had a group of rogue military that were trying to cause a new 9/11 because they felt that would make the US finally take care of Libya. Former CIA father's who aren't revealed until their old "enemies" decide to get some payback 30 years later. Former Russian Sleeper Agents trying to cause WW3 because the Soviet Union was gone and they had no real country. Now we have a murder on a plane coming up with only Castle and Alexis able to solve it. Sad to say, the writers have been looking over previous episodes of Bones, X-Files, Alias and No Ordinary Family recently. Defecting Al Qaeda agents who went to school with Castle in Thailand and for some reason was in Montreal. It makes you wonder why we didn't see something like this coming. 

[tankgirl73]

Castle is always going on about international conspiracies when they're trying to solve their cases.  He has his cockamamie theory of international intrigue, everyone rolls their eyes, yeah, right, of course it's international intrigue, sure.  The crazier, the more fun he has with it.

 

It's lampooned like that so much that for Castle to actually be involved in international intrigue on such a grand scale -- with high up Al Qaeda operatives (turned protected informant), Thailand escapades, Russian ex-kgb assassins, American ex-military superheroes, planned terrorist attacks involving tens of thousands of lives -- I mean, it's bigger than anything Castle made up in his theories that were ROUTINELY MOCKED IN THE SHOW. 

 

It has GOT to all be fake.  If it's not a dream, it's a huge trick being played on him, like his birthday party mystery.

[Nadine]

Well if they did want to do a spin-off they wouldn't have to film a pilot they could just use this episode. Heh.

[McManda]

I don't think they even know about all the states.  I still remember the time Beckett referred to driving "up" to Atlantic City.  AC is south of the city.  That's down. I think she referred to Brooklyn as "up" too.

 

I think that's just a colloquialism. "I'm going up to ... " is more common that actually using the correct cardnial direction, especially in more casual situations. You don't really hear people say "I'm going east to ..." if they're just going to another city. The only time it makes sense to use a direction (to me) is if that direction has become an area, ie: "I'm going up north" or "I'm going out west".

 

It has GOT to all be fake.  If it's not a dream, it's a huge trick being played on him, like his birthday party mystery.

 

 

I would be a little sad if this was all a coma-Castle hallucination. If only because I think his married relationship with Beckett has been pretty great (dark kisses aside, but that's not a result of him dreaming), so I'd be sad to lose all that.

[KaveDweller]

Castle is always going on about international conspiracies when they're trying to solve their cases.  He has his cockamamie theory of international intrigue, everyone rolls their eyes, yeah, right, of course it's international intrigue, sure.  The crazier, the more fun he has with it.

 

It's lampooned like that so much that for Castle to actually be involved in international intrigue on such a grand scale -- with high up Al Qaeda operatives (turned protected informant), Thailand escapades, Russian ex-kgb assassins, American ex-military superheroes, planned terrorist attacks involving tens of thousands of lives -- I mean, it's bigger than anything Castle made up in his theories that were ROUTINELY MOCKED IN THE SHOW. 

 

It has GOT to all be fake.  If it's not a dream, it's a huge trick being played on him, like his birthday party mystery.

 

Or maybe it is partially true that they took him because the friend said he'd only meet with the CIA if Castle was there.  But they tens of thousands of lives part was made up so he'd feel good and stop asking questions.

 

Well if they did want to do a spin-off they wouldn't have to film a pilot they could just use this episode. Heh.

 

A spin off for a show about who? The Al Quada terrorist turned bus boy or the awful CIA agents who can't find a way to talk to Castle without making headlines and can't come up with a believable cover story for anything? Neither are really a rootable protagonist.

 

I think the way to start a Derek Storm spin off isn't to make it a real person, but have Castle talk about them turning his books into a show, and start the pilot episode with him and Beckett "watching" the pilot.

[TV Anonymous]

Castle is successful mystery writer he's not an action movie hero and he shouldn't be getting involved in CIA covert operations to save the world by some mysterious means that no one can be bothered to properly explain.  I wish they would try and remember who the characters are - a writer and his cop muse fighting crime - and stop trying to involve the characters in these increasingly outlandish kind of situations which are laughable and end up with characters having to say lines like never mind the wedding you were saving the world! But Marlowe seems to love this silliness but alas the drama lacks emotional punch and fails to develop the characters in any significant way.  Can anyone say Castle has truly grown as as character through what he has experienced or that we've discovered new interesting things about him? The only thing the writers seem to have given the fans is a headache. 

 

Castle premiered one year after The Mentalist did. At that time viewers drew the parallel between the two shows as the premise of the shows was similar: a civilian with unique and special skills helping the police solving unusual murders. The police handlers of both shows were (relatively) beautiful women with whom the civilians eventually fell in love.

 

However, now that The Mentalist is over, I can say that in its journey its story, mythology and character development were better. While the Red John arc was tedious at times, it was eventually over. Once it was over the show was rebooted and started new. Once the reboot did not work as hoped, the show was ended.

 

Point is, The Mentalist IMO was more able to keep what the show was about without going to the realm of the unbelievable.

[Nadine]

Or maybe it is partially true that they took him because the friend said he'd only meet with the CIA if Castle was there.  But they tens of thousands of lives part was made up so he'd feel good and stop asking questions.

 

 

A spin off for a show about who? The Al Quada terrorist turned bus boy or the awful CIA agents who can't find a way to talk to Castle without making headlines and can't come up with a believable cover story for anything? Neither are really a rootable protagonist.

 

I think the way to start a Derek Storm spin off isn't to make it a real person, but have Castle talk about them turning his books into a show, and start the pilot episode with him and Beckett "watching" the pilot.

 

I was thinking a DS spin-off that they could use the crap from this episode for it. So he was actually doing research for the DS book and not actually being yanked away from his wedding. But then again I've only watched this episode once since I can't be bothered sitting through it again. So my thoughts are definitely not with clarity of any sort.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Nadine

[KaveDweller]

I think that's just a colloquialism. "I'm going up to ... " is more common that actually using the correct cardnial direction, especially in more casual situations. You don't really hear people say "I'm going east to ..." if they're just going to another city. The only time it makes sense to use a direction (to me) is if that direction has become an area, ie: "I'm going up north" or "I'm going out west".

 

 

I would be a little sad if this was all a coma-Castle hallucination. If only because I think his married relationship with Beckett has been pretty great (dark kisses aside, but that's not a result of him dreaming), so I'd be sad to lose all that.

 

But in NYC people refer to going uptown when they are going north and downtown when they are going south.  That may not be the case in all cities but it is there.  And no one from NYC would ever say they went up to Atlantic City.  Atlantic City is part of the Jersey Shore. In New Jersey going to the beach is called "down the shore." And that's said by people from NY going to the Jersey Shore too. If you're going somewhere that's down the shore, you wouldn't say up, it's just not how people here talk.  So, the line was very obviously written by someone not from the area.  Sorry for the rant, I'm just from New Jersey so that error always bothered me.

 

I would be sad if Caskett's actual wedding turned out to be a dream too.

[pepper]

 

I think that's just a colloquialism. "I'm going up to ... " is more common that actually using the correct cardnial direction, especially in more casual situations.

Agree with KaveDweller. Not in New York. Nobody in midtown goes down to the Bronx, up to Brooklyn, down to Harlem or up to Atlantic City. Nobody. Just as nobody in New York pronounces Houston Street like the name of the city in Texas. Nobody. That was just sloppy writing. Have at least one New Yorker review the scripts when you're basing a show in NY, or you end up making people cringe. Then again, that was an episode that very few people will be likely to re-watch, except perhaps Nathan Fillion who reportedly loved it.

Edited April 23, 2015 by pepper

[oberon55]

It has GOT to all be fake.  If it's not a dream, it's a huge trick being played on him, like his birthday party mystery.

 

Poor old Castle. He'll never know for sure what's real & what's not. Once you know you have been mind fucked by the CIA how do you trust any memory you have?

[jhlipton]

 But in fairness to the writers, they did know the difference.  Castle was the one who mistook it for Arabic.  For whatever reason, it was intentionally written for him to be wrong at first.  Probably so we'd be surprised at the Thailand reveal.

 

I placed it for Thai or Cambodian from first sight -- Beckett, Ryan and Esposito all took it for Arabic as well.  As for "Arabic in the jungle", Indonesia has a very large Muslim population (they had some problems with terrorists a while back, but the moderates licked the to the curb, I believe).  Their license plates would be in Indonesia, though, which similar to Thai.

Very silly.

[Nadine]

Can't remember if this was mentioned, but forgot to mention it before that I only remembered now due to seeing gif sets. That Beckett reading the book at the beginning - I'm guessing that was her trying to study for her Captain's exam before work.

[Elysium1973]

This is the only episode of the entire series I have ever not liked. I won't even say hate because it's not worth it. I'm just going to pretend it didn't happen.

Okay, hold the goddamed phone. Hal didn't like the episode? We all know she's Fillion posting in disguise (heh. Hal is actually a terrific gal who is a real person).

Now that's saying something.

This episode was such a fucking clusterfuck, I couldn't be bothered to pay attention. I just watched it tonight (combination of working 5-6 12 hour shifts in urgent care and apathy) and I laughed all the way through it. It's like MilMarMann know their tickets are punched, so they just stopped giving a shit.

The show jumped in 6x23 but they had a lot of contenders up until that point. Maybe they just want to throw a lot of bullshit at us so we don't care if it ends. I can't think of any reason.

Reactions in my house (from my 69 year old parents - Castle's demo):

Elysium's dad. IQ 160. Physician. Smartest guy I know: "what in the hell was that supposed to be? And I don't get the 'chunky' guy. Can't they give him something else to do besides looking tired and having to say ridiculous dialogue?" - my dad takes his a TV way serious. Must be genetic.

Elysium's mom: Summa Cum Laude from the biggest (and one of the most prestigious) in Texas: (said in Texas twang) now you know I love this show, Sadie (Sadie is the dog's name. She calls everyone by the dog's name) but this is getting ridiculous now. Do you think they are all on drugs in Hollywood?"

E.D.: "Sure they're on drugs. You'd have to be taking legal and illegal substances to come up with that. Maybe someone should stage an intervention."

E.M.: Well, ____, don't you know someone in LA that could help those poor people? Why don't you call your friend from medical school, Dr. Drug Guy, and the show will start making sense again. Sadie, what do you think?"

Now at this point I don't know if she's adressing me or their 16+ year old Lhapso Apso (no one knows how old she is) who has thyroid disease, an underbite, and is completely incontinent.

Me: hahahahahaha. This show is so fucked, the only thing you can do is just laugh at the utter absurdity of it all.

As some of you know my favorite character is SherlockHolmes!Molly, so you can best believe that one will be sitting on the DVR until I move sometime later this year.

Don't get me started on Caskett or Hacklowe or Blowman or the lack of intimacy. Would you want to make out with someone you couldn't partner with for negotiations? He should just start making out with Penny all the time, so when Stana doesn't sign we have someone who wants to kiss him.

I just want this show to hurry up and die so as a fandom, we can get some peace. This is like watching a baby seal getting eaten by a shark - the one they let out of the box last year.

[KaveDweller]

Don't get me started on Caskett or Hacklowe or Blowman or the lack of intimacy. Would you want to make out with someone you couldn't partner with for negotiations? He should just start making out with Penny all the time, so when Stana doesn't sign we have someone who wants to kiss him.

 

I actually thought that even though the plot of this episode made no sense, we did see a lot of intimacy and closeness between Castle and Beckett this week.  Mostly at an emotional level, but there were a lot of small looks/touches between them too.  Castle especially looked more in love than we've seen in awhile.

I don't know what any of that has to do with Stana and Nathan not negotiating together though.  Maybe it just didn't make business sense to do that? It seems like it rarely would for actors.  Now yeah maybe they do hate each other, but I've never seen that impact what comes across on screen.  I know others disagree, but I still don't see it.

 

I just want this show to hurry up and die so as a fandom, we can get some peace. This is like watching a baby seal getting eaten by a shark - the one they let out of the box last year.

 

Speaking as a fan, I don't need (or want) the show to end to get peace.

[merylinkid]

I am visiting my dad this weekend. He has not seen thus episode yet, its on his dvr. I told him not to bother. He asked why it sounded good. I told him it was not good that at the end he would be saying what tge fuck. And i said fuck to my dad which i dont normally do. Hopefully he erases it unwatched.

[Blue Plastic]

This was terrible.  THIS was the big exciting/shocking/whatever reason for Castle to be kidnapped on his wedding day?  And it involved Chuck Norris lookalikes and memory erasing and Castle vaguely somehow saving the world because some guy he used to know at prep school needed a replacement prominent person who couldn't be harmed (what does that even mean?)  to help him get back into the country after he used to belong to Al-Qaeda..?  I think I may have missed some details because I have been an on-and-off viewer, but I have a feeling they wouldn't help.

 

That was just sad.  Yes, there have been far fetched and goofy plot elements before, but I guess I thought they would treat this story line with a little more care since they made it so dramatic and angsty with Beckett wearing her wedding dress, standing next to Castle's wrecked car in the rain.  Now it's like they tried to wrap it up as a punchline to a joke!  What a bunch of hacks.  They just needed the drama of having Castle kidnapped on his wedding day and to heck with how they were going to address it later.

[pepper]

I don't want the show to end, but Elysium's review made me snort with laughter.

 

If the show intends to go an as it has for the last two weeks, I can't come up with a compelling argument why it should be renewed. Having it in syndication and watching re-runs makes current episodes look really bad in comparison. Which is sad.