S08.E10: Super Selfies

[Richness]

Glad to finally see the judges ding Emily for always doing big hair, though it now makes sense why she's always doing it. I've been harping on her big hair repetition since the third episode or so. I think that's what the judges were slamming her for, more than a bad concept. While there are earth goddess/healing superheros, she didn't sell her concept at all. I hope she takes this bottom look to heart to finally do something outside her comfort zone. LOL at Marge Simpson as Poison Ivy. Don't get me wrong, Emily is very talented, especially for her age, but she went back to big hair once too often.

 

The only one that I felt truly failed to create a superhero, was Ben. It was fairly well done, but it was a villain. I really wish the judges would slap him on the wrist for doing his own thing. However, Mr. Sourpuss actually tried making a joke this week about applying a bald cap, so I'll cut him some slack.

 

I was tired of hearing Stephanie mope last week about not having any creative inspiration, so I was even more annoyed by it this week. And her zombie Grey Canary was shockingly bad.

 

Logan's dragon man hybrid was phenomenal, though I have one question: Why would he need a wooden mask if he's the only dragon man hybrid out there? It's like the pointless masks on the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Other than that one logic fail, it was a fantastic job. I also disagree with those who claim it failed the challenge because it was more of a fantasy character instead of a modern superhero. It wasn't meant to be a *modern* superhero. It was a hero (super or otherwise) for a fictional time period when there were dragons. Even Marvel's 1602 universe has colonial time period versions of its superheros. There was even a Black Knight that was in the Avengers.

 

Adam's was cool, and I loved that he spotlighted his red hair to go with the costume. Unfortunately, it reminded me too much of a red Mega Man more than anything. Maybe that's why it didn't win.

 

Was it just me, or did Julian do a gender swap as well? His demon looked rather feminine to me. Not that it looked bad, but it didn't look the least bit male to me. In fact, I hope he enters that make-up in a drag queen contest. It was the most fabulous diva demon I've ever seen.

 

Ve's got such a potty mouth. I just sort of rolled my eyes at her "bitchin'" hello. Also show, could we tone down the hardest challenge ever hyperbole? Contestants in a previous season have had to apply make-up to themselves as well.

[Bella]

I thought Emily went off the rails with her concept from the very first moment, in that it wasn't specific enough. If you want to do a Mother-Nature-ish superhero, it can't stop at "Mother Nature." It has to keep going. Make it Weather Woman, Queen of the Wild Animal Army, Bird Avenger, Geology Goddess (Creator of Sinkholes and Earthquakes!), Mountain Mother, etc., etc. And give her a distinct action that's visible before anyone even knows her name. Weather Woman carries lightning bolts, Bird Avenger has a lethal beak, etc. Look to the pantheon of the ancient Greeks for inspiration - they had lots of great ideas.

 

Mother Nature was way too general and therefore too vague to be interesting.

[snakenax]

I think the overall concept of the challenge was a bit wonky in that there are very few superheroes that require any make up effects, they're primarily defined by wardrobe. Which is why the people in the top all did the super hero mask, it's the one sculpted bit you'll see in super hero costumes(and why it was boneheaded for Stephanie to decide against doing one, since it's about the only way to read super hero in visuals and still be sculpting),

[LoneHaranguer]

 

They were always going to chuck Stephanie, but wanted to, if I may borrow a phrase, tell Emily to "check herself before she wrecks herself."  The only reason Emily was on the bottom was her doing another variation on the huge wig, the makeup was technically fine.

I wish they had found another way of doing that, because their timing was terrible. It was like putting somebody who did a great alien on the bottom for always doing aliens, on the week when the challenge was to do an alien. Asking Emily to do herself up as a superhero was an invitation for her to do exactly what she did. If they had asked for something a little more restrictive, like a new member of the Avengers, they would have been on sturdier ground for handling things this way, although that would have been more of a costume and prop challenge than anything suitable for this show.

[Kromm]

I wish they had found another way of doing that, because their timing was terrible. It was like putting somebody who did a great alien on the bottom for always doing aliens, on the week when the challenge was to do an alien. Asking Emily to do herself up as a superhero was an invitation for her to do exactly what she did. If they had asked for something a little more restrictive, like a new member of the Avengers, they would have been on sturdier ground for handling things this way, although that would have been more of a costume and prop challenge than anything suitable for this show.

I dunno.  I agree with many others that she didn't follow the brief.  It's just that it seems in retrospect a little hypocritical of the judges to ding her on what every other contestant less one (Adam), INCLUDING the week's winner (Logan), did.  As I've said upthread even though his actual makeup was a little shabby, Adam was the only one to properly use primary colors.  He was the only one to have a modern/sciencey design, which telegraphed superhero clearly instead of medieval or horror.  He WASN'T the only one to have a mask, that's true, and that was one lack by Emily, but even the ones with masks looked like confused concepts.  And absolutely NONE of them, including Adam, used tights (although perhaps the pseudo-athletic gear he used instead, knee pads, mesh fabric panels, very visible dramatic seams and piping, etc. served as a decent substitute).  

[diebartdie]

Not all Supers look like  this or this. An earth spirit super could look like this, a post apocalypse slayer type could look like this or even this and a more royal type could look like this but for the most part I can't help but wonder, where does MAKEUP fit into any of that except the earth spirit? Im reminded last season, the GI Joe snake challenge, everyone went for a full prosthetic except for that one fellow, he did a very minimal look and even though he didn't win, he got top looks with it. (If anyone is curious, most of those pictures were screen shots of characters I created in City of Heroes, an mmorpg that no longer exists)

Edited March 20, 2015 by diebartdie

[starri]

 And absolutely NONE of them, including Adam, used tights

Stephanie did.  And we saw how that turned out.

[WearyTraveler]

I would would say that none of the following are mandatory for a super hero:

 

• A mask (see Superman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Wonder Twins)
• Tights, spandex, Lycra (see Ironman, Professor X, Hulk, The Shadow)
• Clothes in primary colors (see Green Lantern, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Spawn)
• A human alter ego (see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle, Thundercats, The New Gods, Silver Surfer)

 

I think the two things that are absolutely required for a superhero are:

• A super power
• Context

 

Stan Lee, who I think is probably one of the world's foremost authority on superheroes explains it much better here:

 

• On Super Powers:

 

 

A superhero is a person who does heroic deeds and has the ability to do them in a way that a normal person couldn't. So in order to be a superhero, you need a power that is more exceptional than any power a normal human being could possess, and you need to use that power to accomplish good deeds. Otherwise, a policeman or a fireman could be considered a superhero. For instance, a good guy fighting a bad guy could be just a regular police story or detective story or human-interest story. But if it’s a good guy with a superpower who is fighting a bad guy, it becomes a superhero story. If the good guy is doing something that a normal human being couldn't do, couldn't accomplish, then I assume he becomes a superhero.

 

• On Context:

 

I try to make the characters seem as believable and realistic as possible. In order to do that, I have to place them in the real world, or, if the story is set in an imaginary world, I have to try to make that imaginary world as realistic-seeming as possible, so the character doesn’t exist in a vacuum. He has to have friends, enemies, people he’s in love with, people he doesn’t love—just like any human being. I try to take the superhero and put him in as normal a world as possible, and the contrast between him and his power and the normal world is one of the things that make the stories colorful and believable and interesting. 

 

It's interesting that in the article he also mentions that a superhero doesn't really need a costume, but that they are more popular when they are wearing one.

 

I think the biggest thing that was missing from the bottom looks this week was context.  Neither Stephanie, nor Emily had really figured out the "world" of their characters, and so their stories were weak, landing them in the bottom.

 

I like Emily and was sad to see her in bottom looks, but I've been thinking a lot about this and I don't think it was done solely because the judges wanted to give her a wake up call.  Her wig and costume were not that good.  Her make up was exquisite, but the rest of the costume wasn't.  One could argue that other contestants deemed to be in the middle also had weak stories but their costumes, fabrications and prosthetics were pretty decent.  Emily had a great make up, but her fabrication and costume were a green mess.  So, based on the technical merits of the challenge, I do think she deserved to be in the bottom.

 

In any case, I'm super glad she didn't go home, but I knew she was in no danger, given the horrible job Stephanie did.

 

I wish this show would define the parameters of the challenge better for the audience.  I suspect that they do something similar to Top Chef where more specific instructions are given to the participants behind cameras, with detailed briefs on what they can or can't do.  Most of this gets cut out of the episode due to time constraints (they only have 40 something minutes per show and most people aren't really entertained by someone explaining a long list of rules).

 

I say this because I don't know how to feel about the contestants that went the anti-hero route.  In my mind, that's not a superhero, that's why they have a separate noun.  Same thing with super villain.  But those people landed in the middle this week, which makes me think that the rules were leaning more toward a "character that could hail from a superhero story" than a "superhero as defined by Stan Lee" (and most people, really).  As Stan Lee notes in the article I linked, if you have a super power and use it for evil, then you are a super villain, not a superhero.

Edited March 21, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Kromm]

Yeah, but even your definition has issues.

 

A super power - this is really dependent on your DEFINITION of super-power.  Batman and Green Arrow, for example, debatably have no powers.  Of course we can get into the idea that a.) money and b.) skill can substitute for super-powers, but if the idea of a makeup challenge is to represent visual cues, then there are no visual cues for wealth and skill.
 

As for the "a mask, Tights, spandex, Lycra, Clothes in primary colors, human alter ego" list, I'd say the point isn't that we can find superheroes without some of those, but that IN GENERAL you'll find that superheroes tend to have one or more of them.  Having zero of them (or one of them only, but where it looks subtly wrong, like how Darla's character had a face mask, but it looked more like one someone might wear at a costume ball) is the issue, especially when we are tying things into a contest judging visuals specifically.

That last is the key.  We're not looking at some abstract intellectual debate over what's a superhero, we're looking at a visuals contest.  Ergo.. you need cues, although backstory sure helps too.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Kromm

[PepperMonkey]

I never cared for Adam until this week. I loved his superhero and I loved his story and sense of humour.

 

Poor Stephanie was way past her expiration date. I can't seem to remember her doing much of anything BUT struggling and not knowing how to cope with the spotlight challenge of the week.

 

I actually really like Logan, but, okay, I'll just say it: I thought his "superhero"'s face was uber masky. Like Halloween masky even.

 

I adore Emily and I think her beauty make ups are superb, BUT is she able to do anything OTHER than beauty? And seriously, enough with the big hair.

Edited March 21, 2015 by PepperMonkey

[Kromm]

You know I just realized looking at the cast page that Emily's last name is "Serpico".

 

Wow, how did I not notice that before now?  Admittedly it's not like walking around with that last name in the 1970s, like her father must have done, and how everyone would probably comment on it, but its STILL probably got to get some comments.

 

And yikes, I forget she's only 18.  Nobody should be that talented at 18.  Although this season appears to have cast crazy young.  Anthony, 20. Stephanie, 21.  A few in the pack being 24-25 (Regina, Kelly, Julian) or so almost makes them seem like the senior crowd.

[Reishe]

I wish this show would define the parameters of the challenge better for the audience.  I suspect that they do something similar to Top Chef where more specific instructions are given to the participants behind cameras, with detailed briefs on what they can or can't do. 

I seriously wonder. Look back at the troll fiasco, when Rayce specifically advised his team "don't go big nose and pointy ears; don't be too literal" and then Neville shot back with "there's nothing about this that says 'troll.'" So, what is a troll? In the Terry Pratchett universe, trolls are huge and rock-like; in other fantasy worlds they are smaller and physically much different.

As far as this show is an extended job interview for makeup artists, I'm okay with this mushiness; goodness knows if these folks end up working on a show or movie, there will be directors who ask for a visual they have in their head and can't describe, or "I'll know it when I see it." But as far as the competition itself goes, I find it frustrating when the parameters are vague and then some contestants are dinged for not adhering to them while others are praised for ignoring them or "daring to push the boundaries."

[sourpickles]

I missed the party last week and was late to this one because I had guests and felt it would be rude to go off and comment. So. I've sort of scanned all the comments but I'll just add how I felt and be done with it. I enjoyed this episode, it seemed very relaxed compared to some other stuff they have had to do and everyone seemed to be having a good time. Stephanie went home I think because hers was a bit underwhelming compared to others. Emily seemed to have channeled Starfire from the 80's. Not sure what to make of the whole superhero/supervillan vs. goddess/demon/ etc. I was just glad to have a productive episode.

[Kromm]

Emily seemed to have channeled Starfire from the 80's. 

Heh.  Although it's worth noting that Emily Serpico, Age 18 (well, 19 now, per her website), wasn't even ALIVE in the 80s!

I seriously wonder. Look back at the troll fiasco, when Rayce specifically advised his team "don't go big nose and pointy ears; don't be too literal" and then Neville shot back with "there's nothing about this that says 'troll.'" So, what is a troll? In the Terry Pratchett universe, trolls are huge and rock-like; in other fantasy worlds they are smaller and physically much different.

As far as this show is an extended job interview for makeup artists, I'm okay with this mushiness; goodness knows if these folks end up working on a show or movie, there will be directors who ask for a visual they have in their head and can't describe, or "I'll know it when I see it." But as far as the competition itself goes, I find it frustrating when the parameters are vague and then some contestants are dinged for not adhering to them while others are praised for ignoring them or "daring to push the boundaries."

Yeah, I think this is true of all skill-based reality comps, to some degree.

[snakenax]

 

I seriously wonder. Look back at the troll fiasco, when Rayce specifically advised his team "don't go big nose and pointy ears; don't be too literal" and then Neville shot back with "there's nothing about this that says 'troll.'" So, what is a troll? In the Terry Pratchett universe, trolls are huge and rock-like; in other fantasy worlds they are smaller and physically much different.

Well this is what they mean when they talk about visual language, does something immediately read troll? Does the sweeping forehead you gave your character make it read more alien than intended? Is your lion closer to a tabby? When all you can really judge on is visuals, the ability for something to be instantly associated with what it is can be very important.

 

As for why some people are dinged for not reading as the concept and others are praised for going outside the box, well that has a simple enough answer: if something works, it's good, if something doesn't, it's bad. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by snakenax

[sourpickles]

To Kromm: I've always wondered if that was her real last name or not...too funny. I know she's only 18, I just meant that the first thing I thought with the wig and contacts and fishnets (or whatever) was that she would make a great green throwback Starfire. Unfortunately, that wasn't what she was going for!

[morakot]

Daria's goddess was as much a superhero as Thor. I liked that she took inspiration for her sidepieces from the decorations in the architecture too. In terms of context, it would have been stronger if she had been able to present herself (like Thor or Wonder Woman) as a goddess alive in the human world and expanded on her specific powers.

 

Edited to add: not all superheroes need spandex and a cape.

Edited March 22, 2015 by morakot

[Kromm]

Edited to add: not all superheroes need spandex and a cape.

No, of course not.  But when the judging criteria being used seems to rely on visual language, you've cut the legs out from under things that don't have the most traditional elements.  In other words, seemingly, it turns into a game of "can I tell a nice story verbally and have them enthralled by it".  It's become fairly arbitrary when that happens.

[WearyTraveler]

Nobody is saying that the story alone would get a win or warrant completion of the challenge.  Obviously.  It is a make up competition, so, the visual make-up is a requirement.

 

I think what several other posters and I are saying is that the visual elements do not need to be the very cliche ones that have been mentioned on this thread (e.g. a mask, a costume in primary colors, etc.), but that the make-ups can have visual elements that are different and still convey the two key things that make up a superhero, not according to me, but according to Stan Lee, who I think we can all agree is a verified authority in what a superhero is.

 

To refresh, he says a superhero should have a superpower and hail from a detailed, well developed, universe.  He doesn't say the superpower has to be has to be supernatural, just that the superhero can do something better than a normal human being could, ergo, Batman, Arrow, etc.  Their physical skill and intelligence sets them apart from your average Joe and they use those skills to do good, so, they are superheroes.

 

There has been criticism on this thread of the contestants who went with the fantasy characters (Logan's dragon and Darla and Emily's goddesses), but such characters can be superheroes too. See, for example, Thor and The New Gods.  Another criticism is the color scheme, when as long as the make-up conveys the superpower and the story of the character, the color scheme is secondary.  It doesn't need to be primary colors; take Arrow, Green Lantern, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, for instance.  None are in primary colors.  Going further back, The Shadow, which hails from a time before Superman started the superhero craze, was primarily dressed in black.

 

I would say the ones in the top had four things that warranted their placement there:

1. A superpower
2. A great story
3. A make-up that visually conveyed superpower and story easily
4. A great technical execution (appliances, fabrication and paint job) of the makeup (I think in this aspect, Logan was slightly ahead of Adam and that's why he got the win).

 

The ones in the middle, IMO, had:

1. A superpower
2. An average (Darla, Julian) to good (Ben) story
3. A bad (Darla), average (Julian) and good (Ben) visual representation of the superpower and the story
4. A good (Darla, Julian) to great (Ben) technical execution of the makeup

 

The ones in the bottom had:

1. A superpower
2. A bad story
3. A bad (Stephanie) to average (Emily) visual representation of the superpower and the story
4. A bad (Stephanie) to average (Emily) technical execution of the makeup

 

That's why, in my mind, the judges' decisions this week seemed pretty on point and it didn't feel like they were being harsher on Emily than on other contestants who might have had the same flaws she had (Darla, for instance); because Emily failed on more aspects than the other contestants deemed to be in the middle.

Edited March 23, 2015 by WearyTraveler

[Kromm]

Fair enough.  Although of all of that I think rating Emily's technical execution of the makeup as "average" is the one that is going to be hardest to get much agreement on, or that the judges thought so either.  The judges citing her overuse of a wig between multiple challenges isn't the same thing as them thinking that the execution was lacking--other than the wig they really didn't have anything but glowing praise for the execution, and the anti-wig comments weren't about the craftsmanship or application skill of the wig, but rather about them being sick of seeing them from her. That probably gets its own category, rather than the 4 you already have... "expectations of the contestant" or something like that. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by Kromm

[snakenax]

 

Daria's goddess was as much a superhero as Thor.

I think her concept was good, just the robe needed to be knee length to give a more action hero look.

[sourpickles]

I think everyone on here has a valid point one way or the other (makes for an interesting discussion, anyway, and at least everyone is intelligent and polite), but I think one thing to keep in mind is that we truly have no clue what is going through the judges mind at times. Editing is the enemy of us all. I cannot stand when you'll see someone dinged for something on one episode/season, and then the very next episode/season, another person does the same thing and gets praised for it. Drives me nuts, because I don't understand it and there is never enough full explanation as the whys and wherefores of judging. Hell, half the time I don't fully understand the challenges (not only this show), never mind judging criteria. I wish there was a way to be the audience to be more informed, but then you miss the actual work being done. I'll take less commercials!

[hincandenza]

I think everyone on here has a valid point one way or the other (makes for an interesting discussion, anyway, and at least everyone is intelligent and polite), but I think one thing to keep in mind is that we truly have no clue what is going through the judges mind at times. Editing is the enemy of us all. I cannot stand when you'll see someone dinged for something on one episode/season, and then the very next episode/season, another person does the same thing and gets praised for it. Drives me nuts, because I don't understand it and there is never enough full explanation as the whys and wherefores of judging. Hell, half the time I don't fully understand the challenges (not only this show), never mind judging criteria. I wish there was a way to be the audience to be more informed, but then you miss the actual work being done. I'll take less commercials!

I've said it before, but it'd be cool if on their site, SyFy offered the viewing of extended, uncut judging segments so the small percentage of interested viewers can learn more about that process. What else are the facetestants told, how detailed are the critiques, etc? We weirdos who still discuss the show days later would eat that stuff up. :)

[sourpickles]

Are we weird? I thought we were just passionate....or obsessed......ha! Seriously though, I'd watch that if offered. I'd also like to see other interviews, in order, without the same over edited sound bites over and over and over again...that would be really nice. And I'd love to learn more about the process behind the shows. Maybe I need to start reading exit interviews or post show interviews. I bet that would shed some light on things.

[Nutjob]

 

I think the biggest thing that was missing from the bottom looks this week was context.  Neither Stephanie, nor Emily had really figured out the "world" of their characters, and so their stories were weak, landing them in the bottom.

Agreed, except that I also think Stephanie needed more actual make-up for hers to work. Her story would've been easy if she had just thought about it a little more--she could've sold it as a woman in a post-zombie apocalypse world who was bitten and found she was partially immune. She keeps her humanity, but suffers some of the physical attributes. Her immunity is her superpower, because she can help everyone fight the zombies without fear of being turned herself, so she becomes this bad ass zombie killer. Yeah, it's Blade meets 29 Weeks Later meets The Walking Dead, but at least it would've given her a viable story.

[Richness]

Her immunity is her superpower, because she can help everyone fight the zombies without fear of being turned herself, so she becomes this bad ass zombie killer. Yeah, it's Blade meets 29 Weeks Later meets The Walking Dead, but at least it would've given her a viable story.

 

Since this is SyFy, that sounds exactly like Murphy on Z Nation, though he's more Eugene than Blade in his temperament.