Completely Unspoiled Speculation Thread

[gingerella]

Seven Hells brothers! I thought I was going to have to abandon my post here.

All I can say for now is...NEEDLE!!!

BTW, do we have PMs here? I cannot find the door...

Edited April 7, 2014 by gingerella

[90PercentGravity]

I was happy to see Jaime's golden prosthetic, because it is a step closer to my fantasy of him running around shouting "who's got my golden arm" at his and Brienne's kids, but I wish it had been more functional. I guess that is what he gets for letting Cersei design it. It would have been cool if it were holding a dagger.

Glad that we can discuss the episodes freely here. I took a look at the so-called no spoilers thread and there are spoilers under spoiler tags, which is fine in the sense that I wasn't personally spoiled, but if they are posting spoilers then they are clearly spoiled and don't understand the spirit of the no-spoilers thread. I'm sure for the mods and bookwalker protectors, it will be much easier to police one thread than several.

Edited April 7, 2014 by 90PercentGravity

[janjan]

Also less Wildling stuff, please. Show them attack the Wall, but other than that, I don't really care. Especially with those creepy cannibals now.

I'm with you, Man of Trout. I'm assuming we have to put up with all this North of the Wall stuff because Jon will eventually become important in the game of thrones. If not, he's had an awful lot of screen time for a throwaway.

Now that he's broken his oath, and the successors to Commander Mormont are jerks -- wasn't that Thorne and Slynt?! Did we accidentally conjure them?!? Aaargh!!! -- the way is clear for Jon to run off, marry Dany (not Ygritte), kick some KL ass, and end up on the iron throne. Or something like that.

 

 

[abelard]

Oh, there was flaying too...My hunch is that it's not merely the appearance of the sigll-animal in the real world, but the bond made between the animal and human: Dany and her dragons; the Starks and their wolves. We'd be talking a very different bond forged between torturer and the tortured. -- Pallas

Ah yes, I re-watched the end of S3 and saw that part where Daddy Greyjoy reads the note from Bolton's Bastard saying that he (the Bastard) flayed all the men from the Iron Islands that he captured.  So...definitely there was flaying too.  And your line about the "different bond forged between the torturer and the tortured" gives even more credence to my theory (based on your theory about sigils) that the Boltons are benefitting from flaying men.  They are clearly a house of sadists, they totally get energized by torturing people to death (mostly), just like Starks get energized by hanging with direwolves. 

I was pissed as hell when Tywin took Ned's overly gigantic ass sword from it's scabbard...that was a wolf skin. -- shimpy

Shimpy I very clearly remember your pointing out the ridiculous size of Ned's sword - and here we have Tywin commenting on the same thing!!!!!  I hated that Tywin had Ned's ginormous sword melted down but now I am curious about who got the other sword (was it a smaller one than the one Jaime got).  

 The old one was very nice to look at, but couldn't seem to contain his douche-face. This was seems much more approachable. -- 90 Percent Gravity

 

Ha!  Douche-face indeed.  I'm a bit surprised that this Dario doesn't look a thing like the first one but who really cares.  I like this guy, I think.  But if Dany's season is spent freeing more and more slaves, and flirting like a high schooler with this dude, I'll be furious. 

Btw I think those were Dothraki with her when she approached the Unsullied troops?  I was wondering where the Dothraki were.  But I think I recognized their curved swords, yes?

I *loved* that all the Lannisters were basically reaming Jaime.  Jaime has led a s**t life till now, lacking in honor, morals, scruples, and just plain smarts.  He is reaping what he sowed.  I love it when horrible people get their comeuppance in the form of their even-more-horrible children.  That's just about my favorite style of comeuppance.  Joffrey being a little s**t to Jaime just about made my day.  I'm more ready for Jaime to get on the redemption train (someone else coined that above) now that I've seen him punished for his lifetime of awfulness -- by his own freaking family.

Arya + Hound for the WIN!!!!!!  NEEDLE!!!!!!!!!!!  And that whole tavern scene was genius, from beginning to end.  It felt like a Western, like something from Sergio Leone (or Quentin Tarantino!), all calm and quiet and the audience just waiting for the fighting to begin.  When it did start I was nervous for Arya that she wouldn't get to kill anyone :), so I was extremely pleased that she did get in on the action.  My wish for Arya to start killing people came true!!!  (And confirmed: GoT has made me a horrible person who longs for young girls to become cold-blooded murderers. #sorrynotsorry)

Edited April 7, 2014 by abelard

[Chris Ashe]

So Thorne and Slynt return but I can't get pass the one character that went awol for the second half of season three...Ghost where are you?

He has probably joined up with a red she wolf and now is devoted to the God of Bite.

But that aside, fantastic start to the new season and I don't know about anyone else but I am hungry for chicken now.

[90PercentGravity]

Something that occurred to me during this episode, that I just remembered, is that I don't think we've ever seen a lion on this show? We've seen stags and direwolves and ravens and bears, but no lions that I can remember. They have to have them somewhere for it to be the Lannister sigil, but where?

[Slovenly Muse]

Nice ep to ease us back into things! I am really excited to see how Brienne will fit in (or not) at King's Landing and what her role there will be.

I am wondering this season, since both Oberyn and Sansa are regaling Tyrion with tales of the Lannisters inviting burning, generations-lasting hatred by going beyond what is neccessary to win in order to humiliate and degrade their enemies (plus his fear for Shae), between that and Jaime the Golden Boy getting a taste of how it feels to be on the outside of his family's inner circle (and finding that his bond with Brienne is more powerful than his family's loyalty to him), if we might not see the Lannisters start to break ranks and turn on each other. The Lannisters have sniped at and manipulated each other throughout the series, but have we ever seen a Lannister act against the family's interests? IIRC, they've always seemed fairly united as to their larger goals. As those in power become more arrogant AND more paranoid and desperate to keep their power, there could be some really fun political and familial implosions on the horizon!

Jaime has basically become the new Tyrion, and like Tyrion, he may not be exactly "good-hearted," but he definitely doesn't take pleasure in the suffering of others the way certain of their family do. I wonder how much cruelty it would take to turn Tyrion and/or Jaime actively against the family. I wonder if this is the season we'll find out!

I could not love the Tyrells more if I tried. That is all.

[Pallas]

 

We've seen stags and direwolves and ravens and bears, but no lions that I can remember. They have to have them somewhere for it to be the Lannister sigil, but where?

Tywin thought they got uppity. The gruesome story is recounted in "The Manes of Yesteryear." 

[stillshimpy]

I have to admit, I almost started crying when Tywin struck the hilt from Ned's sword.  The infamous wedding actually just ticked me off to no end.  My poor husband had to sit there and listen to me just fuming "Why do I even watch this show?  I wish I'd never started!"  because it just went full blast into "this will upset you, oh yes it will, there will likely be nightmares, you'll get irrationally angry every time you hear a cello for months" .  That scene with Tywin and the sword got to me more than that scene with Rob's body.  

It was so quiet and so utterly awful. The Starks -- as far as Tywin knows -- are destroyed.  Rickon's a little kid and he has to live secretly, Bran's headed into gods-know-what in the hell that is the frozen North, where the best case scenario is he'll find the White Walkers and their Army and the worst case scenario is that he'll find anyone else from those parts, because Jebus Yipes.  

gingerella, there is no PM system here,  The one at TWoP is still functioning and then for anyone who needs it my email address is just my screenname @ yahoo.  I'm usually pretty dogged about finding everyone.  So if you all just want to make a note of that, there's a contact point. 

I really did not like the actor who originally played Daario and since there was seriously no way for me to avoid that "Liam from Nashville is leaving to play Daario" stuff over in that show world , I had plenty of time to prepare myself for "this will be different".  I think it was the right call, overall.  The original actor had such a vaguely slimy, smirky insincere thing going on, it was impossible to take his loyalty to Dany seriously.  Therefore I spent most of my time waiting for him to betray her.  Then worse than that, Dany looked like a chump for trusting him, no matter what he did.  I just couldn't see the appeal. 

The actor playing Daario now pretty much specializes in playing charming, but roguish types.  Unlike other Dude, this guy can pull off "fully sincere, if still prone to lying and cheating when the moment calls for it."  

Okay, I am STILL blown away that that is the backstory with the folks from Dorne.  I know they referenced bad blood between the Dornish people and the Lannister, but way to go for understatement.  Good God.  They killed the would-be queen (she wasn't Dany and Viserys mother, right, she was married to Rhaegar, their brother.  

Holy crap.  When Tyrion played his "find the spy" game with "who gets to marry Myrcella, Tyrion said Myrcella would be safer there than in King's Landing.  I think Tyrion was smoking some fine Seven Kingdoms Weed, because ...oh.my.goodness...you had one of their relatives (who supposed to end up the damned Queen, by the way) split.in.two after being raped.  Poor Myrcella.  Hopefully the Dornish are far more honorable than the Lannisters are, because I thought Sansa had it bad when she had to live at KL during the war. 

It also makes poor Sansa's "Stannis wouldn't let them hurt me" look naive on new and uncharted levels. 

ETA: abelard, yeah, this time wasn't as "Uh...sometimes I feel as if the show is talking sort of directly to us...which I know is beyond unlikely and into absurd...but..."  as what felt like the pigshit-shoutout , but still.  My husband asked "What?" as soon as I started in with "Oh god, no." and I explained, "That's Ned's sword.  I'd recognize that oversized sucker anywhere." 

Edited April 7, 2014 by stillshimpy

[janjan]

Pallas: Tywin thought [the lions] got uppity. The gruesome story is recounted in "The Manes of Yesteryear."

Groooooaan!   :-)

Cersei's 180 re Jaime was startling, and I wonder if there's more to it than her trademark narcissism. (We should just say self-centeredness, since a true narcissist wouldn't love her children as she does.) She was still looking out hte window mooning for him after the battle of Blackwater. Why change now? Was it the hand? Or was there some foreshadowing in her consulting the not!maester?

Lady Olenna said "Ooooold." Maybe Cersei is menopausal and doesn't want Jaime to know. Maybe she is having the maester perform one of his ambitious experiments that would deny Loras his conjugal rights -- hey! He's probably chipping in for the cost! (Present-day racing trainers sometimes sew up the vulvas of fillies. Don't get me started.) Or maybe Cersei has ovarian cancer and is suffering in silence. Many possibilities here.

I'm confused about the new Dario. Version 1.0 was such an obvious douche-face slimeball that you just knew Dany would eventually turn on him and feed him to the dragons. But this one seems kind of sweet, which throws a kink in my Dany-Jon shipping. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

RIP to Ned's big-mutha sword. It was in the iconic promo pic for S1.

[DirewolfPup]

Another important plot-point. Cersei's handmaiden saw Shae leaving Tyrion's chambers. Said handmaiden went and tattled to Cersei. Cersei is going to keep this in her back pocket and ruin Tyrion for good. Shae? Oh she's so incredibly dead...

Not to be a sour direwolf, but those dragons got really big in just a few weeks. We got our timetable from Jamie "I've been here for weeks." Those dragons were more than double in size from S3E10. In episode 10, those dragons came up to Dany's hip. Now, they're the length of a boulder. Dragon-sized plot hole?

[stillshimpy]

Direwolfpup, we've always sort of thought that the timelines -- while appearing to run concurrently -- kind of don't when it comes to Dany's meanderings across the Narrow Sea.  Honestly, she's had time to wander across three different deserts at this point.  Not to mention get married, conceive a child that had time to actually start showing, ect.  Lose said child and husband.  Wander the desert like a figure from the world's most screwed up bible (and man, I've read some of the Old Testament for a class so that's saying something).  Free slaves, conquer one city, sail to some place else, conquer another.  Free a giant ass slave army and now she's on the road to some place where the road signs are just plain old disturbing. 

Dany is now on the trail of some truly gruesome bread crumbs.  So I"m thinking a little more time has passed in Dusty Sometimes Sunnyville than in the 7. 

 

 

Or was there some foreshadowing in her consulting the not!maester?

I almost forgot about that.  It would help explain what in the hell just happened.  They made such a point of talking about Jaime's age (which is kind of a first for an adult character) that menopause might be the gig -- although that happens later in modern times -- but Cersei seemed relatively sober.  Cersei isn't a narcissist precisely and I'm not even sure saying she's self-centered is accurate as much as she cold to the point of being callous. 

Last season it even turned out that she's not entirely insensitive to Sansa's plight, she just thinks that it's about the best Sansa can hope for and Tyrion ought to give her a child to love...since she views Sansa as shit-out-of-luck otherwise.  So it isn't even that she entirely lacks empathy, it's just her starting point for human feelings is warped to the point of perverse on a good day. 

Still, I really didn't quite buy the entire, "You left me alone" stuff, because Cersei, while very self-involved ( I mean, witness who she hooked herself up with) , didn't display any anger towards Jaime throughout.  Just occasional concern and a lot of drunken behavior.  

So she's either ill (cancer of the soul, perhaps?) or she's having the Maester make her ill or incude menopause to get out of having to marry Loras.  

ETA:  I'm also really torn on what it might mean that it was Cersei's spy that spotted Shae.  If it had been someone reporting to Tywin, Shae would die on the way back to Sansa's quarters.  Cersei, however, has enough reason to really be pissed.the.hell.off at Tywin that she might not actually immediately give the information to her father.  But we did just hear the story of why Cersei had such a fit about Myrcella being sent off to Dorne and, to put it mildly, yeah that seems rather warranted in retrospect.  So Cersei might not even come close to hesitating. 

Although, in Cersei's only defense, when she had a hold of Roz, all she had done to her was having her vaguely roughed up a little. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by stillshimpy

[abelard]

Another important plot-point. Cersei's handmaiden saw Shae leaving Tyrion's chambers. Said handmaiden went and tattled to Cersei. Cersei is going to keep this in her back pocket and ruin Tyrion for good. Shae? Oh she's so incredibly dead... --Direwolf Pup

Oh yeah!  I forgot about this.  So Cersei's about to find out about Shae (or basically that probably has already happened, offscreen).  I'm going to miss that funny whore (Shae's words, describing herself in jest, not mine).  The last time Cersei thought she'd nabbed Tyrion's whore, she was pleased as punch and Tyrion promised Cersei that he would deliver payback that would make her weep and tear her hair out forever.  This time, if she really does target Shae successfully, then what will Tyrion do?  Cersei's life is already a pile of pigsh*t, I'm not really sure what else she's got to lose.  I mean, even if she "lost" Joffrey...is that really a loss?

shimpy, I hear you on the Myrcella-being-sent-to-Dorne issue.  Actually, Cersei's great distress at this makes so much more sense now.  In S2, when Cersei was throwing a hissy fit b/c of Myrcella's leaving, I was on Tyrion's side 100% b/c he was right about Myrcella being safer outside of KL during the seige.  But given the Martells' great grievance against the Lannisters, it was obviously hugely risky.  Myrcella was a very minor character in Seasons 1 and 2, but I hope she is okay over there!!!!  And I'm more understanding of Cersei's side in the ongiong Cersei/Tyrion war.  Though sometimes they have seemed closer than they let on (when they were basically the only two Lannisters in KL, they had plenty of tete-a-tetes and they weren't all about how they were going to make the other wish for death before they were done, etc.).

[abcfsk]

Aah, I wasn't actually sure that was Cersei's handmaiden first time through but of course it is.

I'm not sure she will go straight for Tyrion's beloved  right now? The two seemed reasonably friendly, or at least working some sort of truce towards the end of season 3. But at least she has an ace up her sleeve now in their relationship. 

[AlphaLine]

Wooh, nice first episode.

I'm glad to see that three of my predictions have come true. First one, that the whorehouse storyline would continue, despite the departure of Littlefinger and Ros. It seems like the new character ( Obarin ? ) is also into whores , but this time they had the sense to keep the sex and the exposition separate.. unlike the infamous first season scene where I couldn't possibly pay any attention to what Littlefinger was saying. Second is that someone from Dorne would be turning up, which apparently fits into the whorehouse storyline as well. Male-Ros appears to be running the whorehouse, and one of the whores is also posing as an assistant for Sansa but is actually Cersei's spy. Interesting.

Third prediction was that Allister Thorne / Janos Slynt would be turning up at the wall, and they do. Thorne seems to be a lot more mature now that he is the acting Commander. I would say he is certainly going to die at some point, because Jon just has to be the LC, it's the only logical thing.

Also, new wildlings!? Are those orcs? Seemed a bit like that although it wasn't really clear. They definitely eat man. So apparently, Mance Rayders army also has all sorts of weird creatures from beyond the wall, such as giants, orcs, worgs with worg animals. And yeah I'm not impressed with Mance Rayder . He can't be bothered to appear on screen, Tormund Redbeard is definitely the main character and this alliance with the orcs is not a good idea. Its a lot worse than Robb's alliance with Bolton.

Speaking of which, there was Dragonstone and Dreadfort in the opening credits, neither of which appeared in the episode. They do that a lot though. I'm guessing that the epsiode map is static ( ie the same every episode ), and they won't be marking insignificant places like Arya's inn. The Eyrie is the only one that might be important enough to appear on the map later , though now I'm doubtful if we'll actually see it.

And Danarys is back to the whole freeing slaves BS. Didn't they ALREADY do the freeing slaves from evil city twice? Concentrate on Westeros zzz.... New Dario was kinda weird. He looks nothing like the old one but whatever. I'm hoping he's a Westerosi in disguise or something clever. If Danarys didn't have everything already, it would be practically a coup to get a marriage alliance with one of the great houses of Westeros. I'm hoping that's what they're going for. Conclude the whole slave business asap, romance with Dario ( who will reveal himself to be actually XYZ from Westeros ) and by the end of the season be all set to travel to Westeros, with basically everything - army, marriage alliances , and great big dragons ( train them plz? Worrying signs there ). Poor Jorah.. don't really know how he fits into this.

[DirewolfPup]

Oh timelines. How vague you are!

If I were to guess, I'd say that from beginning of Season 1 to now, it has been about 2 1/2 years maybe 3. That seems like plenty of time for all of Dany's wanderings. She was forced into procreating with Drogo in episode 1, so I would guess that she got pregnant sometime between episode 1 and 3. Then she lost the baby before 9 months, right? Her pregnancy belly didn't seem large enough to be full term. I'll say 8 months there. Now, her desert wanderings could have been about a year or two, totalling about 2 1/2 years as my brain estimates it.

(aside: Wouldn't Dany be super anti-magic after that sorceror lady killed her husband and child?)

Westeros timelines almost can't be trusted. Wars are slow, since they have to walk everywhere. Minimum a year has gone by. Season 1, based on the small council meetings and hitman attempts, it's safe to say the Westeros and Essos timelines were aligned. Now? Who knows. We can't tell by the aging young actors because we're supposed to disregard that since it's inevitable when creating a season every year for the show.

We are told that Sansa is 14 when she married Tyrion. Jamie is currently 40. Does anyone here recall anyone else reveal their age at any point?

[abcfsk]

First one, that the whorehouse storyline would continue, despite the departure of Littlefinger and Ros. It seems like the new character ( Obarin ? ) is also into whores , 

Male ones, mind. But that was his wife with him, right? I guess their relationship is either of the open, modern kind and both swing both ways, or it's the Margaery - Renly kind, for show and a formal necessity. 

 

 

They do that a lot though. I'm guessing that the epsiode map is static ( ie the same every episode ),

No I think it has changed now and then every season. 

[Pallas]

Dipping in while at work -- will comment more on all these great posts later!  But,

Now, her desert wanderings could have been about a year or two, totalling about 2 1/2 years as my brain estimates it.

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet during my refresher course over the weekend, I gasped aloud when Dany said this to the second slaver -- the one who ruled the city where she ended Season 3 -- 

"Last year, I didn't have dragons."  

She may have been waxing poetic. She may have meant, "dragons and not hatchlings." She may have meant, "Because I the greater part of Season 2 searching for them, when they were abducted."  But that's not what she said.  

 

[ChocButterfly]

GoT has made me a horrible person who longs for young girls to become cold-blooded murderers. #sorrynotsorry)

Then I'm also a horrible person, because I was shouting at Arya to kill someone! I don't think it's evil, I think it's fair. Dude deserved it.

I'm also curious as to what it was that Cersei needed medical help for. She was surely acting weird. Someone mentioned a possible abortion? From who, cousin Lancel? And what did she mean when she said Jamie was too late? She's still not married, so technically if she believes Jamie could get her out of the wedding (don't know how) he's still on time.

I really hope it's Oberyn that gets to kick some major Lannister's ass. I like the dude. I am worried about Myrcella, though :(. No wonder Cersei was so pissed at Tyrion!

Did anyone elese thought of Captain Hook from OUAT when Jamie said a hook would be more practical? Plus, I agree with him, that metal hand must be very heavy.

I'm happy to see all the former posters here, Shimpy, Pallas, Janjan and all the others :D.

[RadiantAerynSun]

I'm so far behind I'm going to comment before writing my own thoughts!

 

Also, I'm crying a little bit foul on the show.  We've never really had any reason to believe that Cersei cared about physical perfection before.  She was in love with Robert at one point in her life, after all.  So it wasn't Jaime outgrowing Cersei, it was Cersei outgrowing Jaime? Okay, fine.  As long as there is growth away from each other, I'm okay with that.

Yeah I was a little surprised/disappointed jaime was still mooning over her, but I guess he DID just go through a lot specifically to get back to her. I wouldn't really say Cersei "outgrew" him though, as her reasons were VERY childish. I think this is just to show Jaime that the relationship they had was not healthy or real... DUH!

 

ETA:  You're likely right about Robert, Pallas.  I was pissed as hell when Tywin took Ned's overly gigantic ass sword from it's scabbard...that was a wolf skin.

YEAH which he then BURNED in the fire that was being used to forge the new swords. Tywin, you bastard!!

 

I didn't know Daario had been recast, so it took me a second to catch up. I like this new actor, though. The old one was very nice to look at, but couldn't seem to contain his douche-face. This was seems much more approachable.

I do think it was probably a good switch, as this guy doesn't appear so slimey and has more ACTUAL charm. But I was a bit bothered that they didn't even TRY to make him look/dress REMOTELY like the previous Daario. Like at least let him start out with a similar haircut, even if you change it an episode or 2 in...

 

Bronn is still awesome. Podrick is getting hot? Huh.

I had to wonder if this was the same actor for Podrick? (He's also more talkative) Was he just young and is growing up or was he recast?

 

Margaery is suddenly less than thrilled with becoming the psychopath's wife.

Oh I don't think she was ever thrilled, she seemed kind of cynical about it before after the "monster" reveal (roll of eyes, sigh, but what's a girl to do) but determined to "work with it". But still snark behind his back...

 

So, no updates on Bran/Rickon/Osha/Hodor, Theon, Stannis, Gendry... who else?

Robb (just kidding!), no Lysa/Littlefinger.

 

The actor playing Daario now pretty much specializes in playing charming, but roguish types.  Unlike other Dude, this guy can pull off "fully sincere, if still prone to lying and cheating when the moment calls for it."

He reminds me of Marcus on Babylon 5.

 

Holy crap.  When Tyrion played his "find the spy" game with "who gets to marry Myrcella, Tyrion said Myrcella would be safer there than in King's Landing.  I think Tyrion was smoking some fine Seven Kingdoms Weed, because ...oh.my.goodness...you had one of their relatives (who supposed to end up the damned Queen, by the way) split.in.two after being raped.  Poor Myrcella.  Hopefully the Dornish are far more honorable than the Lannisters are, because I thought Sansa had it bad when she had to live at KL during the war.

Yeah, yikes. Which Dornishman was Myrcella supposed to marry? Not the one we met I guess? Someone younger? can't recall the name.

 

Another important plot-point. Cersei's handmaiden saw Shae leaving Tyrion's chambers. Said handmaiden went and tattled to Cersei. Cersei is going to keep this in her back pocket and ruin Tyrion for good. Shae? Oh she's so incredibly dead...

Yep. But she is so bad at playing it cool I almost don't pity her at all. I'm more mad at Tyrion because he SHOULD SEND HER AWAY. FOR GOOD. yes it'd be sad, but she'd be ALIVE.

[abcfsk]

 

"Last year, I didn't have dragons."  

She may have been waxing poetic. She may have meant, "dragons and not hatchlings." She may have meant, "Because I the greater part of Season 2 searching for them, when they were abducted."  But that's not what she said.  

Well, how long is a year in this world? 

[90PercentGravity]

Then I'm also a horrible person, because I was shouting at Arya to kill someone! I don't think it's evil, I think it's fair. Dude deserved it.

 

My mom was even saying "why is she just standing there, she needs to kill someone" and then when she finally did start killing people she said "good! finally." I was thinking "uh... she's still a little girl, you know?"

I had to wonder if this was the same actor for Podrick? (He's also more talkative) Was he just young and is growing up or was he recast?

 

It is definitely the same actor, but I think he grew about six inches, which caused him to thin out, especially in his face.

[DirewolfPup]

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Yet during my refresher course over the weekend, I gasped aloud when Dany said this to the second slaver -- the one who ruled the city where she ended Season 3 -- 

"Last year, I didn't have dragons."  

She may have been waxing poetic. She may have meant, "dragons and not hatchlings." She may have meant, "Because I the greater part of Season 2 searching for them, when they were abducted."  But that's not what she said.  

For some reason I remembered this as "Last year I didn't have an army. A year before that, I didn't have dragons." If I'm wrong, then maybe only 1 1/2 has past, which would still align with Westeros since we have zero scale of how soon all this stuff is happening. Joffrey's only had one name day...

[stillshimpy]

Well and I think Tyrion appears to understand that at long last (that he needs Shae to leave or else she will actually die) because he was pointedly not answering her about leaving.  

I don't think it has anything to do with no longer loving Shae.  I think Tyrion just has a pretty good handle on what the stakes are here.  Poor Shae, I know she's a pain, but really the gig is that she dearly and sincerely loves Tyrion, which is precisely why she's doomed if she doesn't get the hell out of Dodge.  

Nymeria, thank you again for all the work you're doing.  You have no need to apologize at all.  It's been three full seasons now and there are things like Dondarion (that's his name, right, dude with the flaming sword?) having been named dropped two full seasons before we met him and his eye patch. 

I haven't been on team Kill Someone Already Arya! But I like the way it happened.  She didn't kill someone just to be fully blood thirsty, which was my fear for her last season when she went after the soldiers at the campfire.  She was really deliberate in letting the guy on the ground know what had brought about his specific end.  He made mention of how torture just got sort of ...boring (Good grief) and so when Arya killed him, he didn't initially recognize his own words.  She really has become some kind of avenging angel. 

Okay, so one of the things that has semi-fascinated me is that apparently there is no portraiture in the Seven Kingdoms and aside from that one statue of Baelor we saw back when Ned lost his head, I haven't noticed much statuary of people.  So Joffrey's statue stood out a damned mile.  It really is just a super brutal world where the only commemorative art is apparently tied to complete slaughter. 

 

ETA: Oh thank goodness, another lost companion back with us!  Good to see you, ChocButterfly! I'm sorry I couldn't PM everyone, my PM system was full as I tried to round up everyone.  So thanks to everyone that followed the link we left behind.  You weren't being excluded, I just couldn't PM everyone at once.  Which reminds me, I need to go try and round up LevitateMe, keep a fire burning, folks. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by stillshimpy

[DirewolfPup]

It is definitely the same actor, but I think he grew about six inches, which caused him to thin out, especially in his face.

The Podrick actor is definitely following in the foot steps of the actor who played Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter movies.

[RadiantAerynSun]

If I was Joffrey I wouldn't go poking a guy that is called the Kingslayer for a reason. Still stickin' with my spec that Jaime is the one to finally do the deed.

OK, I think Arya/Hound stole the show. And HURRAY NEEDLE!!! I made the crucial mistake last night of watching the "Previously on..." I will make sure I mute it and avert my eyes next week as it gave me a few too many hints as to what ground would be covered and I was less surprised when, for example, Needle reappeared.

I guess Grey Worm and Daario are buddies now. It always bothered me how Grey Worm immediately trusted that guy last season when Dany asked. I mean, why?

Poor Sansa. I think Sophie Turner did a great job of portraying her utter sadness and listlessness. And hurray for Dontos reminding her that she was a good person and could still make a difference in someone's life. Wonder if there is any chance of Oberyn helping her out since he has such a hate on the Lannisters... he is a real wild card.

Am fantasizing now about Oberyn creating some utter chaos at the royal wedding and serving up some justice, but that seems almost too obvious. Maybe we'll at least see him cleave the Mountain in two. Speaking of obvious: It's so obvious Shae is going to die now, that I almost wonder if she won't.

[WhiteStumbler]

Two Swords: Ice being reforged into two blades for the Lannisters.

Two Swords: Ice and Needle.

Two Swords: Arya and The Hound.

I can't believe that the dude who killed Lomy was still alive! I could have sworn he was dead at Harrenhall for some reason. I remember thinking at the end of S.2 'well, Arya will never have Needle again. That sucks.' But no! A Show gives some fanservice.

Has anyone else seen any of the films of Akira Kurosawa? I felt like Arya and The Hound were riding into such a completely different world than the rest of the cast that they might as well be in a different movie altogether. Some sort of cross between The Road and Seven (!) Samurai.

SO glad that there is a new Major House with a completely different reason to HATEHATEHATE the Lannisters (and a completely different view of the history of the events that lead up to Robert's Rebellion). I hope that Inigo Martell talks to Sansa at some point. I would love to see what his attitude is towards the Starks in general and Lyanna in particular. Does he also believe that Lyanna was "taken" by Rhaegar?

Speaking of the Martell clan, they seem super annoyed by Rains of Castamere, which is going to be a problem since a) they are in KL, b) KL is ruled by a grandson of Tywin Lannister, and c) there seem to be exactly two popular songs in Westeros - RoC and The Bear and the Maiden Fair. [Digression: One of them is probably permanently banned from wedding DJ playlists, so the rotation at most events will get pretty boring.]

Does Arya have any idea what a BAD IDEA it is for her to go to The Eyrie? I didn't think so. There is no way for her to know that her Aunt is cuckoo and Littlefinger is (or soon will be) running the asylum.

Glad we got a check-in with Redbeard and Mrs. Ygritte Snuh. Has her prowess with a bow been A Thing in previous episodes? Not digging Cannibal Corp. Ick.

"Oh, THAT Asshat" moment: Slynt AND Thorne at the same table at Castle Black?!? The only way I would be more surprised would be if Nymeria was at their feet, calmly cleaning her paw. Also, does Ned's execution of Sole Survivor in S.1 make Lord Eddard seem like kind of a dick in light of what Jon Snuh was just on trial for? He gets a complete pass (not even a demotion!) for what he did because he 'told the truth', while a fear-crazed crow loses his head to Ice for running away and telling the truth!

Favorite Couple: Brienne and Lady Olenna. Her "My word!" at meeting Brienne was brilliant.

Need some Stannis!

Take note, fellas: The way to a Dragon Queen's heart? A bouquet of local flowers - don't skimp on the poisonous ones!

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Okay, so one of the things that has semi-fascinated me is that apparently there is no portraiture in the Seven Kingdoms and aside from that one statue of Baelor we saw back when Ned lost his head, I haven't noticed much statuary of people.  So Joffrey's statue stood out a damned mile.  It really is just a super brutal world where the only commemorative art is apparently tied to complete slaughter.

Y'know that never even occurred to me but you're right, we never do see paintings of anyone hanging on the walls.

 

Glad we got a check-in with Redbeard and Mrs. Ygritte Snuh. Has her prowess with a bow been A Thing in previous episodes?

I seem to recall a brief scene last season where Jon said "no way can you hit that" [ quick cut to them carrying dead deer ]. Seemed pointless then, but maybe it was meant to imply there's no way she "missed" her target.

[DirewolfPup]

I'm going to flat out guess that the lack of artwork displaying kings, etc is more due to production limitation of the show than of the society.

[90PercentGravity]

I think the only person in Westeros patient enough to sit for a portrait is Sansa.

I noticed in the previously that they didn't actually show the baby stabbing, even though they showed a lot of other gruesome stuff. Did the censors decide that that was just too gruesome to show again?

Edited April 7, 2014 by 90PercentGravity

[stillshimpy]

Oh before I forget again, the moment that got the biggest, "Wait, what the hell?  Are they just going to pretend that never happened?!?" deal was when Thorne was just sitting there at the Wall, all sneery and jackassy and astoundingly physical present with no damned explanation. 

What the hell, show?  You sent that dude off to King's Landing at the end of the first season, with a hand of the undead army.  

Would have been nice to have it mentioned how that freaking went rather than just having him sitting there, being an super-jackass to Jon Snow for still no discernible reason.  Kind of a lot has occurred since Thorne had his pissing matching with a Sixteen-Year-Old Jon Snow, so you'd think Old Crusty Thorne would have gotten the hell over his beef with Jon. 

Also, the freaking Dreadfort was in the credits.  More Bolton, that Bastard and Whittled Theon to come, I take it. 

[MrMicrophone]

Re: Lions -- Mountain lions are mentioned in the first episode, first season. And if the Nittany lion can be a mountain lion... why can't they be here?

Also, in the first ep, first season, the King takes Ned on a hunt -- but I had assumed it was boar, as they were talking spears. You use spears with boars because they charge you...

 

[MrMicrophone]

 Tormund Redbeard is definitely the main character and this alliance with the orcs is not a good idea. Its a lot worse than Robb's alliance with Bolton.

Bolton owed Robb fealty, just like Frey owed the Tullys (I think?). So, these were rather longstanding relationships...

[janjan]

The Podrick actor is definitely following in the foot steps of the actor who played Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter movies.

And Robert Iler of the Sopranos.

I just caught some of S1. Bran has definitely grown by now, although the other Starklets look about the same. And yet they're all three years older.

Shimpy - I think it's Thoros who has the flaming sword. Jis' sayin'. Several characters have mentioned that while reminiscing about battles past. Dunno how Dondarrien got hold of it in the Hound fight. Whatever's handy, I guess.

WhiteStumbler - Kurosawa? Let us bow when you say that sacred name. Did you know that the director's cut of Seven Samurai is something like 8 hours long? And not long enough, sort of like GoT. (I actually saw the whole thing once.)

[ChocButterfly]

Oh thank goodness, another lost companion back with us!  Good to see you, ChocButterfly! I'm sorry I couldn't PM everyone, my PM system was full as I tried to round up everyone.

It's ok, no worries. I wasn't a very active poster, anyway, but I did find the link you guys left :). Thank you!!

I hope that Inigo Martell talks to Sansa at some point.

Heh, Iñigo Martell! And now he'll be looking for a one-hand Lannister to kill :p. Someone also called Shae "Dead Whore Walking". Heh. Unfortunately, I don't remember who or in what thread, but I think that should be her nickname from now on, until she finally gets killed.

So the guy with the zombie hand was there at the Council and there was no explanation?? It took him about 3 years to get there and we have no idea what went there??? Awsome. Also, where is the conversation about the crows mutiny at Craster's? I'm hoping we'll have some follow up from that. And does Jon know Bran is alive? I'm guessing Sam told him.

I have also another observation. The Night's Watch is supposed to be this equal brotherhood where your titles don't matter, but we all know that's bullshit. All the commanders and bosses come from aristocratic families. Plus, why did this guy who was sent to the Wall as a punishment from King's Landing is already in the Council? Is there no training for him? Doesn't he have to at least pass some sort of trial period like Jon did? No, he came there and is already a boss. WTF? Also, what happpend to all the zombies that were going to the Wall? They haven't even bumped into the Wildings. Those White Walkers and their zombies are the SLOWEST army ever! They're even slower than Dany.

[stillshimpy]

So the guy with the zombie hand was there at the Council and there was no explanation??

He was sitting there at Jon's tribunal at the Wall (or whatever the hell that panel of Grim goes by).  Just like, "Hey, I've been here the whole time. Yo." 

Like Nikki and Paolo on Lost...only nowhere near as gorgeous. 

[WhiteStumbler]

janjan: The version of 7 Samurai I saw was over three hours. 8 hours?!? My mind reels.

Constantinople: Not a picture, but another piece from Westeros Castle Beautiful magazine I noticed on rewatch were the dragon panels around the ceiling of the map room in Dragonstone. Most bad-ass crown molding ever.

90Percent: "I think the only person in Westeros patient enough to sit for a portrait is Sansa."

The resulting portrait would have the power to cause grown men to begin weeping, even Tywin. It would be so powerful that an army could follow it into battle, and any foe who beheld Girl Praying at Weirwood Stump would have their vision totally obscured by tears.

[DirewolfPup]

Oh Nikki and Paolo. One cool thing about Game of Thrones is we don't get to have any Nikki and Paulo's.

Ilyro Slynt was such a tool. I'm not happy with his instant promotion. Maybe he should have taken over for Thorne's duties intead. That would make more sense.

The Sansa Lisa

[MrMicrophone]

Tyrion's... not entirely wrong, in saying Myrcella would be better off in Dorne.

Remember, if they do hurt her, they cede the moral high ground (and lose a hostage).

Now, if they were negotiating with Cersei, they could probably get quite a good deal, in return for returning Myrcella (or otherwise guaranteeing her safety -- perhaps with a loyal Lannister guard, as the Tyrells have in Kings Landing)

[RadiantAerynSun]

Was Janos in an actual position of power or could it be the "council" has on it the head maester, the lord commander and one random "peer" to judge the accused? Maybe he just got called for jury duty!

[stillshimpy]

So one other thing about the "Holy crow, that's the backstory there?" thing with the Martells of Dorne is this: what the hell was with that pathetic greeting party then?  I mean, it was bad enough for "Oh, don't sweat them.  That's just the ruling family of Dorne, the one that has the King's sister.  Nothing to fret over.  Make some Jiffy pop and inflate the airpumped mattress.  They'll be fine of the floor."  and having just that group of three, misfits all of them, standing randomly at a tree, but at least Tywin usually seems to have a hair more sense than that and Tyrion definitely does.  

The Martells have Myrcella in their custody.  To say there is bad blood between the two families turns out to be both literal and a honkin' screamin' understatement of sort of epic proportions.  Many may moons ago I was a camp counselor and we put on a bigger show for a visiting camp and by that I mean, there were dreamsicles, hotdogs and a singalong.  So, what gives?  

I get that women just aren't given much value by their families, but good gravy.  We're they trying to offend the living hell out of the Martells? I've seen more formal greetings and efforts made by drivers collecting people at the airport.  Seriously, that's what it reminded me of more than anything.  A guy in a limo driver suit, standing around with a sign , looking bored and waiting for his assignment to show. I'm sure it's just budgetary or set design or something, but why the hell is the fourth tree to the left of the moss covered stump the place where you waylay visitors to the capital?  

Do they not like Myrcella, for goodness sake?  You'd think Cersei would have pitched the "They have my baby girl" fit to end all fits.  

[WhiteStumbler]

stillshimpy: But I can totally see Tywin selling it as: 'We Lannisters are so unafraid of offending you that we will send The Imp to stand at the airport with the "Martel Party" sign; raise a stink and we will raze your castle, hang your men, spit roast your women and children, and salt the earth so that nothing will ever grow there again.' Goes a long way to explain why, for every enemy defeated, the Lannisters create two more.

[abelard]

ChocButterfly, I forgot about the Crows' rebellion at Craster's!  Wasn't a Crow directly responsible for Mormont's death (i.e., stabbed him in the gut)???  What will happen with those dudes??!!  Or was it the kind of fight where all the "rebels" got killed during the fight or something (but who would fight on Craster's side - he has no sons)?  Would they all join Mance Rayder's army?  Or just "marry" Craster's daughters (that's the nicest scenario I can think of, there are plenty worse that come to mind)...?  It's weird that the Lord Commander got KILLED and we really haven't heard that much about it.

I was a bit peeved that we didn't get Jon Snow's reaction to finding out that Bran is alive.  I also am peeved Jon didn't recognize Bran and Rickon's direwolves when they saved him under that tower (I don't even understand what happened there - did Bran "warg" his own direwolf, and if so then why did Rickon's join in?  Or was it only one wolf who helped Jon fight off the wildlings?).  I am also peeved that we only got a second of Jon mourning Robb.  I thought those actors sold the hell out of their relationship in the four scenes they had together in the very first episode.  Or did we get 2 eps of them?  Anyway, it breaks my heart that we *never* saw them together again!!

[arry the orphan]

First post! Yeah!

The title was "Two Swords". Starting with the destruction of Ned's sword, symbolizing the end of House Stark, and ending with Arya getting her sword back! So there is still hope for the "new House Stark", and I loved how the drunk fool told Sansa about how his once powerful house is now the lowest of the low. I  am really looking forward to the Hound and Arya turning up at Aunt Lysa house (with Littlefinger there!)

I also think that the story about Tywin Lannister killing the children has now been told the third or fourth time. So far it was only about "Targaryen children" and now we know they were half Dornish. But I wonder why the Martells did not fight against the Lannisters in the war, especially as they seems to have more reason to hate them than the other families. Seems weird that they wait to pay their debts until the Lannisters have won the war. So Tywin's precious legacy is going to be dead children and the song about the rival family he slaughtered (but you better not sing it in presence of a Dornish man) and of course three fucked up children with a really bad reputation.

About the new Lord Commander of the Nights Watch. He probably was on his way to Kings Landing, realized that travelling alone through a war zone towards a city that is about to be attacked is a silly idea and returned to the Wall (after visiting a few brothels on the way.

I also think that sending Tyrion to greet the Dornish was meant as an insult. Or Varys already told Tywin that the prince is not coming and sent his brother instead.

Edited April 7, 2014 by arry the orphan

[MrMicrophone]

abelard,

 

I was a bit peeved that we didn't get Jon Snow's reaction to finding out that Bran is alive.  I also am peeved Jon didn't recognize Bran and Rickon's direwolves when they saved him under that tower (I don't even understand what happened there - did Bran "warg" his own direwolf, and if so then why did Rickon's join in?  Or was it only one wolf who helped Jon fight off the wildlings?).

Maybe Jon doesn't know yet? Seems pretty dirty to not show us that.

[Premislaus]

So one other thing about the "Holy crow, that's the backstory there?" thing with the Martells of Dorne is this: what the hell was with that pathetic greeting party then?  I mean, it was bad enough for "Oh, don't sweat them.  That's just the ruling family of Dorne, the one that has the King's sister.  Nothing to fret over.  Make some Jiffy pop and inflate the airpumped mattress.  They'll be fine of the floor."  and having just that group of three, misfits all of them, standing randomly at a tree, but at least Tywin usually seems to have a hair more sense than that and Tyrion definitely does. 

It wasn't just three of them, there was a detachment of City's Guard with them.

[MrMicrophone]

I suppose it's "Here are the people too unimportant to have something better to do than escort you through our perfectly safe city".

actual reception with actually relevant people to occur at the Palace. Possibly after you've been given time to freshen up.

[stillshimpy]

Hi anyway  you could remove those posts, please?  I actually didn't read them, but someone's going to.  

Edited April 7, 2014 by stillshimpy

[abelard]

SKIPPING OVER BOOKWALKER POST ABOVE (sorry Bookwalker, and thank you so much for announcing yourself, that allows me to skip your posts, no offense!!).

Mr. Microphone: If Sam hasn't told Jon about Bran yet, WTH????  I guess I just think Sam is too smart to skip over important info like that.  I think it just happened offscreen.  I remember that in S1 or S2, Jon referenced the Wildling attack on Bran (and Robb and Theon) that happened in Winterfell, and I wondered, how the heck did Jon know about that?  But of course Robb or Bran had been writing Jon letters, that's how he had news of Winterfell.  So I just assume that Jon finds out about things offscreen a lot on this show.  (Which is a spin on "You know nothing, Jon Snow" -- he does know things, we just don't know how or when he knows them!!)

(Prince Martell, we totally trust you. By the way, have you met the head of the CIA?).

Constantinople, this was great.  I never thought about Varys that way, but that's totally what he is :).

I am SOOOOOO looking forward to Arya and the Hound meeting up with Lysa, Robin, and Littlefinger at the Eyrie.  I was excited for the House of Crazypants before Arya was headed there, but I think/hope that Arya and the Hound will amp up the crazypants even more.       

[Pallas]

We've never really had any reason to believe that Cersei cared about physical perfection before.  She was in love with Robert at one point in her life, after all. -- stillshimpy

 

But she described Robert to (I think) Cat as having been "beautiful," back in the day: again, like the young Henry VIII.  I've always thought that for Cersei, Jaime's beauty and its mirroring her own was an immense part of his appeal.  In fact, just about the whole of it. I think Cersei saw Jaime as her male avatar -- and in her mind, comfortably less intelligent and capable than she, which went a long way toward making up for his inherent male privilege.  Plus, he was her bitch.

Cersei's love affair with her twin speaks to what I do see as her narcissism.  With Jaime gone, Cersei quickly took up with Lancel: a pale imitation of the twins, to be sure, but a fairly close approximation on the most superficial level. The feeling I get from Cersei is that she sees other people as greater or lesser Cercei's, all of them placed on one part of the Cersei continuum or other -- a continuum that includes Jaime but culminates in her.  It's why Ned floored her with his Ned-ness; why Ned might easily have outflanked her, had he not instead gone straight to her and laid out his cards, including a parole plan for her and the children.  It's why Cersei still doesn't grasp or care why Jaime challenged Ned, went to war, took "too long" returning, or most of all, that he cares deeply what other people think of him. (Tywin at least perceives that; he just thinks it's inane, one more of Jaime's nettlesome flaws.)  

I feel that Cersei's "love" for Jaime has always been one part envy to three parts projection, with a taint of malice mixed in there: their affair distorted Jaime's life far more than hers. Their affair may have been her "womanly," covert, treacherous blow against primogeniture.  It swept Jaime, heir to Casterly Rock, right off the palisade, right when he came into his manhood.  

On the other hand...there's Cersei and her mysterious symptoms.  Maybe she really has simply lost her libido over the past year, and that's why Jaime "took too long."