Completely Unspoiled Speculation Thread

[stillshimpy]

Numfar, do the dance of joy! Our Maester of the Milk Cartons has returned from patrol! 

A tankard of whisky, a flagon of ale and a doormat, 'cause what were ya raised in a barn?!? 

White Stumbler, I am so glad you stumbled back in.  Dude.  

[abelard]

Hello All! Happy to have a new home.

I thought this was confirmed Season 3 Episode 6 (maybe 5 toward the end). It was the scene where Tyrion and Cersei were in her chambers saying "I'm not sure who has it worst out of this arrangement. Probably Sansa."  Cersei gives away that Joffrey was the one to command the attack. Tyrion responded with something like "Am I still in danger?" Cersei - "Probably, I don't know. He won't try anything now that father's here."  I just watched this episode a few days ago, so it sticks out in recent memory.

Oh thanks for this Direwolf Pup- I did remember the convo in one of the first two eps of the season, when Cersei convincingly denies that she plotted to have Tyrion killed at the end of the Blackwater battle, but thanks for confirming that she does definitively answer later in the season. 

Tywin dying next would certainly add some dynamic, but I hope that he lasts a bit longer. Mainly because I enjoy Charles Dance too much, but also because I want Arya to kill him and see the look on his face when he recognizes her. Of course that won't really happen til season 5 or 6 at the earliest.

 

Oh that *would* be a fitting end to Tywin, Conan T.  I admit I am getting antsy at the thought of how long Arya may have to "train" before she is ready to start working on her list.  I hope there are still names on it that are alive by the time she's ready to really come for them!!!!  I would be psyched if she could start on the list this season but I'm not fully expecting that, she seems to have a ways to go in developing her skills.  (Geez I sound so bloodthirsty - like, When is the little kid going to actually start MURDERING PEOPLE, come ON!!!  But I guess that's what GoT has turned me into.)

Edited March 31, 2014 by abelard

[WhiteStumbler]

Abelard:

 (Geez I sound so bloodthirsty - like, When is the little kid going to actually start MURDERING PEOPLE, come ON!!!  But I guess that's what GoT has turned me into.)

I know! Like 'Come ON, dragons! Grow up already so you can start turning into the Westeros version of WMDs! Yeah!!'

stillshimpy: Thanks for the drinks! Cheers!

Any speculation on how Littlefinger will react to the fact that his patron House (Lannister) just had the (presumed) Love of His Life killed?

[stillshimpy]

Any speculation on how Littlefinger will react to the fact that his patron House (Lannister) just had the (presumed) Love of His Life killed?

It's Littlefinger so probably he will be restrained in his outright, vicious glee.  He'll drop kick a Seven Sister, Spike a Baby and Dance atop the shattered idealism of an innocent while smirking and singing the "Serves you right for refusing me." chorus.   Then he'll have a prostitute killed, because that's how he rolls.  

Seriously, he's supposed to be marrying Lysa, right? Knowing Littlefinger he'll feel freed from any need to even pretend to treat her well.  So he'll drop kick Lysa (probably a bunch), Spike Robyn down the great, yawning sky hole and then he'll force all the women in the Eyrie to work in his Brothel: The Sky Annex. 

Edited March 31, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Anothermi]

*Slops in*  *Wrings out crying towel* *Takes a deep breath*

Glad to have made it to the other side of the Narrow Sea.  I almost got swept away in the immanent destruction of the the Previous Site.  I'm feeling a little like Dynaerys must have felt when she crossed the Narrow Sea.  Now that we're here we might be faced with a choice of siding with her, or becoming 'Kababs' like a few other folk who didn't see things her way. ;-)

Thanks to everyone who scouted out this new home.  I'm still freaking out about what we are about to lose. *grabs crying towel and clutches tightly*  Also glad to see many familiar faces and sorry to learn of others embracing the literary side. 

Re: what will become of Jamie without his right (write?) hand?  I, personally, wish he would become a Slam Poet.  He always had such a way with words. 

I'm not much good at speculation at the start of a season.  All I want is to be surprised and entertained and so far the show (runners & GRRM) has not disappointed me.  3 seasons in and I am still engaged.  This could be a record for me.  I'm not hanging in to witness a slow death - at least not yet - so Kudos to all involved... and to those participating in "virgin viewing".  From TWoP to Previously -  making good TV better since 2011!

Edited March 31, 2014 by Anothermi

[abelard]

Interesting question about how Littlefinger will react to Cat's death!  I actually think he will be greatly saddened by it.  I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in his tiny, blackened, shriveled heart, there was a flicker of hope that Cat would finally become his lover after becoming Ned's widow.  I don't think he would have thought his marriage to Lysa would have got much in the way of that (though it certainly would have for Cat, and plus I think she would have preferred to just remain a celibate after Ned's death, that's just the vibe I got).  

I said it last season and I'll say it again: I would pay 500 gold dragons to watch Crazytown, Eyrie Edition that will surely be Littlefinger and Lysa's marriage.  Besides LF's smarmy twisted betraying lyingness, Lysa's complete divorce from Realtown, and Robin's boobfeeding and brainlacking, that is going to be its own little reality show inside of Westeros!!  

Okay and now going all the way back to S1, WhiteStumbler mentioned Illyrio (who threw Dany and Drogo's wedding), and how he was last seen conspiring with Varys.  I really wondered about that scene b/c Varys seems deadset against Dany invading, not just after the dragons were born but before, when she was pregnant with Drogo's kid Varys was one who wanted her killed.  And Varys made clear he was Jorah's spymaster, too.  So why was Varys conspiring with Illyrio?  In rewatching that ep, I think I have decided that Varys must have been fooling Illyrio.  I think basically, he made Illyrio think that he (Varys) wanted to the Targeryens to return and claim the throne, b/c that's what Illyrio wanted, but in reality, Varys just wanted Illyrio to trust him and tell him what was happening with the Targs, and Varys always knew that he was going to do everything possible to stop a Targ/Dothraki invasion.  Because Varys wants peace in the 7K above all.  I admire him for that, even if he does lie or dissemble a lot to achieve the goal.  But...this is no world in which it pays to be as honorable as a Stark.  This is a world in which it's better to be a Spider than a Stark. 

WhiteStumbler:

I know! Like 'Come ON, dragons! Grow up already so you can start turning into the Westeros version of WMDs! Yeah!!'

 

Oh yeah!!!!  

Here are three things I know for sure:

1. White Walkers will like winter.

2. Dragons will be the only force in the 7K (once they cross the Narrow Sea) that can combat huge armies of WW.

3. But Dragons will not like winter.

To me, it will be a war of endurance.  Will the WW be able to withstand the dragons long enough for the dragons to succumb to the forces of winter?  Or will the dragons withstand the winter handily, and burn the WW to a crispy crunch?  I anticipate the answer will come in the last season.  (But...calling it now...one of the dragons at least will definitely freeze to death.  Mark my words.)

Edited March 31, 2014 by abelard

[YellowWesterosKing]

Hello, Everybody.  I found the old forums only recently, after I heard about it while asking around on internet in search for a place where I'd be free from the threat of book spoilers. I had the Red Wedding spoiled for me last season, and I was at the point where I was just going to go ahead and read the books if I couldn't find a safe haven. So, I was overjoyed to find that forum, and read through most of it at the same time that I was doing my rewatch of the series, and was planning on introducing myself and joining in on the speculation one I was finished going through it all. So, you can imagine my disappointment when I learned the whole site was closing down! Very happy to see a new location for spoiler free speculation has been found, and that I can join in! Again, hi everyone, I hope I fit in here.

Pyp, Grenn, Edd. Jon's NW brothers. I think Pyp didn't go on the expedition North of The Wall? BTW, did we see Maester Aemon at the end of last season? I am still rewatching.

 

 

Having just finished my rewatch, I can confirm we saw Aemon! Had a kinda funy scene with Sam and Gilly, where he needed some convincing Sam didn't father Gilly's baby. Gilly did not help out at old, as she announced she was naming the baby after Sam. Also, I believe we see Pyp as well, he's one of the guys who helps Jon out when he returns to the wall injured.

I am very worried about Grenn and Edd, last seen at Craster's. I wonder if the Night's watch betrayers will be dealt with at some point? I also recall from my rewatch the the asswhole who killed Mormont yelling at Sam as he ran off "I'll be killing you one of these night's, little Piggy!" Or something like that. Definitely seems like set up for a future conflict between him and Sam, but I'm guessing not this season, since the wildling army's attack will probably take precedence, but at some point in the future maybe. I could see Gilly at some point being like "Sam, I'm grateful for you saving me and the baby and everything, but I'm a wee bit concerned over what happened to all my Sisters back at Craster's. You don't think you could lead a mission to rescue them as well?" Actually, a bit strange that she apparently didn't give a pigshit about any of them, but I guess just saving the baby was more important to her.

[gingerella]

Hail my brethren of the Spitball Wall! I hath journeyed ten leagues to reacheth this new kingdom. Nay, I have seen things no Night's Watch should ever see. Slain creatures that hath tried to spoiler me with the breath of stale book knowledge, and out smarted pigshit that raineth down with Bookwalker tears. For godssake! Someone pass me an overflowing mug of grog, mead, or whatever the hell we're drinking in this new realm.

If we are not secure here, I can always offer safe passage to another, smaller, invisible realm where we can enjoy safe harbor. Until then, let us see how safe we are here. I raise my mug to the return of A Man. That is all A Viewer really wants for S4...

[Pallas]

From TWoP to Previously -  making good TV better since 2011!

Previously.tv -- making good TV better since next week!

And, I heard from Maximum Taco (that's Dr. Taco to us). He sends his blessings, saying that he made the list for the Unsullieds' benefit and we may use it we wish.  So a toast to the Maester and another to our protector, Nymaeria.  

[janjan]

WhiteStumbler! Anothermi! Pallas! Gingerella! Oh happy day!! Brick by brick, my citizens, the Spitball Wall rises again.

Now if we could just recover Alistaire Thorne and Nimyria -- and the original Jaqu'n. The first actor was made of cool; not so sure about the one he shape-shifted into. I guess we'll find out soon, though, since Arya fingered the magic coin in a very meaningful way.

I'm a little worried about Bran, etc., since Sam gave them only two pieces of dragonglass.

Pyp was definitely among the ones who picked Jon up off the ground at Castle Black. But there was no Ghost. Heeeeere, Ghost. That's two wolves down and two missing. Summer is still with Bran and presumably Shaggydog is safe with Rickon the Walnut Slayer.

Is Varys's sorcerer-tormentor still in the box? Issues of sanitation trouble my mind.

 

 

[stillshimpy]

gingerella!! Here is the mead/grog/whisky -- with just a splash of blood orange bitters to help brighten the taste -- to slake your thirst after your long, long journey!  Thank goodness we're finding everyone.  I'm particularly glad to see you, the person who coined the word Bookwalker! All hail! Big hugs! 

Speaking of, I found Ulle y'all.  I figured I'd go ahead and press my conjuring luck and I sacrificed a head of broccoli (in a possibly unrelated event) and yup, Found! No longer on the Milk Carton list! Also sort of no longer watching, but still unspoiled for all that. So perhaps one day the Viking division of the Spitball Wall will be reinstated.   I hope so, we had a ton of fun. 

Okay, so I woke promptly in the middle of the night, which is always ever so convenient and because I watched the last episode of season three yesterday while on the elliptical and have more speculation at the ready.  Sidenote: difficult show to watch while exercising, you never know when something horrific is about to happen.  I did actually break down and fast-forward through Theon's stuff, but I watched Yara's scene.  Poor Yara, she's done something admirable, which means she's also in for a world of eek...and she's heading towards that bastard who has Theon.  

Seeing as it has been three full years since anyone other than scum or the Lannisters really won one, I'm hoping Yara gets to kill the living hell out of Bolton's Bastard, whose name I think is Ramsey?  I think that's what Bolten said to Frey.  I was, of course, pleased by the Bran scene (Bran is starting to look tall sitting down) but I have to comment, for someone who apparently lurks in the netherworlds on a regular basis, Jojen was caught completely offguard by the appearance of Sam, but seemingly NOT by the dragon's glass dagger Sam had.  

Also, here's an actual spitball and I don't know why it failed to occur to me before.  Who the hell is Shae going to kill?  It's almost as obvious as the "fear not, fans, Frey will pay, the gods do not forgive those who kill a guest under their roof" stuff.  When Varys says that Sansa is a sweet girl, Shae says with a fair amount of conviction "I love that girl, I would kill for her"  and man, the actress said that line like she was not screwing around with that.  

So the good news?  Shae is almost always with Sansa and Shae is willing to kill for her.  The bad news?  Shae is not exactly the Hound in terms of being physically intimidating.  Maybe it isn't that Shae is so going to die , maybe it is that Shae does the killing?  

Don't know, must go send unrelated Ravens to Ulle though! 

Edited April 1, 2014 by stillshimpy

[DirewolfPup]

So last season, we had two weddings: Tyrion and Sansa, and that other one I can't remember...

This season, we have two more weddings scheduled:  Maergery and Joffrey, Cersei and Loras. (also, are LF and Lysa married? or is that joyeous event still to come as well?)  How many of the 2(+) weddings this season will actually happen? I will say the Maergery/Joffrey wedding will indeed happen. It just won't last very long. Joffrey has to die soon, right? Maybe?

[janjan]

Nymeria: Now I'm gonna leave you alone and undisturbed to your faboulus spitballing. *Slinks away*

Slink not, but walk tall and proud, and carry our thanks ever with you as you slip back through the Veil of Unknowing.

[stillshimpy]

I don't think Littlefinger can afford to kill Robyn. Littlefinger's authority in the Vale would be premised on being married to Lysa.

If Robyn was a girl vs a boy, I'd sort of agree, but since Robyn is a male and therefore the heir to the Vale before any offspring that Littlefinger could produce, I think demented Robyn is likely to "catch a fever" which is Seven Kingdoms code for Murder Most Foul, as far as I can tell. Littlefinger's authority doesn't really depend on Lysa, it's a patriarchal society.  He was given the Vale by Tywin Lannister.  

Tyrion said that Walder Frey will get the credit for killing Robb Stark.  The Rains of Castamere were playing.  I don't think anyone is going to think Walder Frey is really the person in charge when Bolton is named the Warden of the North by the King.  

Also, Lysa has this small "totally batshit, bonkers, oh-my-god 'round and past and through the cuckoo's nest, chick-be-crazy" thing going on and her son is, at best, developmentally disabled (although I pray god weaned by now, please) so Littlefinger is likely to win the hearts of men simply by showing up and appearing to be relatively sane.  Sidenote: because if Robyn isn't weaned, Littlefinger has even more incentive to kill him, as folklore has always had it that women cannot conceive while breast feeding.  

If Lysa's authority counted for anything, it's my personal opinion that she wouldn't actually be marrying Littlefinger.  She does know (inside the demented bat-cave that passes for her mind) that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn.  The Lannisters have sent Littlefinger to marry her.  I don't think Lysa has a ton of agency here if that marriage goes through. 

 

ETA: Thank you for all your help, Nymeria! It was greatly appreciated! I actually messaged with Pallas about the Tavern song and toast, so I think you're still in for some singing.  

Edited April 1, 2014 by stillshimpy

[RadiantAerynSun]

Still can't believe i am blocked from not the entirety of this site or even from the GOT forums but just from THIS specific thread. Must be a Lannister conspiracy. So i guess i will type my reply and email it to my phone. Determined am I.

My hopes for the premiere:

- I hope we see the Eyrie and Littlefinger again (it's been so long!)

- I hope maybe Bran actually gets to DO SOMETHING (more interesting than wandering around)

- I'm curious to see Jon Snow's reaction to all that's happened to his family since he left. If he thought it was bad before, boy...

- I'm really wanting to see sansa's reaction to the RW, beyond the tears we saw in S3E10. Does she want to escape now? or has she given up all hope? Is she really angry at Tyrion or does she believe it was beyond his control//knowledge?

[stillshimpy]

*hands anothermi a warm mug of Seven Kingdom cocoa and a hanky, because that towel needs to go to the laundry Maester, STAT*  

Glad you made it, anothermi. 

I'm with you, Conan, I think whoever threatens either Tyrion or Sansa is the person that Shae will do in, but more likely Sansa.  That is if she gets her homicide on with anyone.  It's just initially when Varys told her to go and gave her a big honking bag of diamonds , I was ready to scream with frustration that she didn't get the hell out of Dodge while the escaping was good.  I wasn't focused on the "Wait, was that foreshadowing? " of what Shae had to say, I was focused on the "Roz is a very dead woman, Shae. Run!"  and this time I realized that Varys track record is not that good, is it?
 
I just mean, people who follow his advice tend to die.  Headless Ned copped to treason at Varys urging and that turned out...I'll go with...not well, for the understatement hit.  Then Roz was actually working for, and reporting to Varys, at his urging. That turned out even worse (at least Ned's end was swift..ish) .  

So yeah, maybe people need to stop listening to Varys and Shae most certainly didn't.  I first thought would spell her doom, but now, I'm not so sure.  

I hope Gendry's dinghy (not a euphemism ) gets to safety rather than running into Dany at any point.  The timing isn't right either, she was still cooling her heels elsewhere while being called "mother" by a lot of people , but I did think of one thing that might lean in Gendry's favor if he ever does encounter Dany.  She has Barriston  with her, the former head of the King's Guard and whereas he feels like he let her father down, he did seem to think Robert was a decent man.  If an entirely dissolute one (which would be fair).

Radiant, try asking in the support area, because that can't be close to normal and if it's only this thread, it's not something your employer is blocking. I'll grab a link , just a sec. Here's a link.  Let me know if you're having problems and I'll ask for you if it helps.   

Edited April 1, 2014 by stillshimpy

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Radiant, try asking in the support area, because that can't be close to normal and if it's only this thread, it's not something your employer is blocking.

No it definitely is, I just am really curious what the heck kind of algorithm it uses to ban sites because it is so random  (and yet at times so very inconvenient). But nah the error message is quite specific. I guess productivity will go up and GoT speculation down, and thus the software has done its job!

It hadn't even occurred to me that Bran was now the de facto King in the North. He's just so separate from all the other activity in the south. Of course who knows when he will ever find that out...

[abelard]

We don't know Varys wanted Daenerys killed.  We know he said he wanted her killed.  I'm not saying Varys wasn't trying to assassinate Daenerys, but no one was in a better position to set-up an assassination plot to fail, if that's what Varys wanted.

Now Joffrey is king, and Varys doesn't think much of him, probably less now that Joffrey killed Ros.  Also, when Joffrey and Tywin were chatting in the throne room about dragons, Joffrey expressed concern.  Tywin said the people who know about these things said not to worry.  Was Varys the one who said not to worry?  We know Varys knows about the dragons since he mentioned them to Tyrion during the prepartions before the Battle of Blackwater.

If Varys knows about the dragons I doubt he wants her to invade, because he hates magic. Bringing back an extinct species is absolutely magic. And RE: Littlefinger's grief over Catelyn... I doubt there will be any. In his conversation with Varys, he lists love as one of the illusions people cling to. I think at one point he genuinely loved her but now it's all just bitterness and spite.

 

Exactly.  Varys hates magic and hates things that disturb the peace.  He really tried to get Tyrion to give a pigsh*t about Dany's dragons but I think Tyrion was either planning the Blackwater defense or was still recovering post-Blackwater, and so did not want to give a pigsh*t about dragons.  But I am very firmly convinced that Varys is especially against Dany's invasion now that she has dragons.  I stand by my earlier theory that he was only "helping" Illyrio to get info on the Targs' movements, not b/c he believes in that cause.  (Btw it *is* pretty hard to tell when to believe Varys and when to infer that he's lying but I tend to believe Varys the most when he is talking to Tyrion - he showed Tyrion the sorcerer who castrated him (sorcerer-in-a-box!) and he told Tyrion the story of that incident and I believed it was the truth.  So Varys telling Tyrion that the dragons will be bad news for Westeros, I believe that that is really his position.)

[YellowWesterosKing]

In Regards to what will happen to Gendry in his little boat, I was trying to think if there were any other characters last seen in ships, and I thought of Theon's sister. Like others here I don't know Westeros Geography well enough to figure out if it would be possible for them to cross paths, but if they did that could be an interesting pair. Theon's sister is kinda like an older Arya, so there could even be some semi-wish fulfillment for the Gendry/Arya shippers.

[stillshimpy]

I also wonder if and when Theon will spill the beans about Bran and Rickon still being alive.

This is the thing that troubles me about Theon's continued existence.  I'm assuming he'll just be some sort of Igor-like creature, scurrying around, living in complete terror of Ramsay.  It would be ever-so-wonderful (I'd cheer, I'd sing, I'd cut a caper, do the highland fling, wave a flag and twirl a baton all.at.once) if Theon were to actually kill Ramsay in some "Ramsay is too busy chortling with malicious glee as he prepares to skin Disney Creatures and a spare Muppet to notice that Theon has gotten hold of some big Ramsay killing thing".  Swiftly dispatch him (please, I really am not going to sit through more torture, seriously, sometimes this show is too much like a horror-flick crossed with a porn) and then promptly die himself, because it's not like i actually ever liked Theon, but even I don't want to see the poor guy doomed to a life as a whittled stump of a man.   I don't think Theon has a rich inner world, or much an intellectual life.  Crippling him in multiple ways is just too much punishment, even for the guy who killed two children for the purposes of props . Then, of course, I want all Disney and Muppet creatures to teleport the hell out of that godsforsaken land.  

But barring that, my dream scenario for what might remove Ramsay from my life for good, I live in actual fear that Theon is going to blab about the fact that he did kill those boys as props.  I don't fear for Bran in all of this, it's that I think poor freaking Osha and Rickon would be in for it.  Bolton would be able to figure out "We should check all of the remaining loyal Stark bannermen" and then, that's it.  House Stark, dead for good.  

I don't worry about Bran, because I think he might be the key to everything.  I thought it was Dany, but she's too personally motivated.  This whole thing actually started with Bran, what he saw, etc.  and he's twelve at most.  He told Sam that Sam had no idea how much he (Bran) wanted to go with Sam and be safe, but he couldn't.  Dany wants to claim the Iron Throne as her birthright.  

Poor freaking Bran just wants to save everyone.  Including the people who have killed or betrayed every person he loved in the world.  He didn't wake up until both of his parents were gone from Winterfell.  The world ended when he fell from that Tower (in a very fitting Tarot card image for the complete chaos and upheaval).  He can't walk.  He'll never have children.  He'll likely never fall in love and he'll never see any of the people he loves again unless it is that dream world.  

Bran's the Anti-Joffrey in this story.  I don't worry about Bran dying, because he's clearly a hugely important part of the story.  Makes sense that the kid who cannot fight is going to be the biggest player in all of this.  

But I will wail with despair if Theon sells out Rickon and it's Theon.  What are the chances?  Pretty high.  

Edited April 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

Agree that the marriage might not last long. Would be interesting if it was still long enough for Margaery to get pregnant. Not sure by whom though,

Uh-oh...I do feel Tywin is going to try to press Jaime into stud service somewhere -- "You did manage to escape with that, yes?" -- and that's another possibility. Jamie told to sub for Joffrey, or Jaime -- upon Joffrey's death -- told to marry the Black Widow of Dorne.  Cercei might wig out.

(Btw it *is* pretty hard to tell when to believe Varys and when to infer that he's lying but I tend to believe Varys the most when he is talking to Tyrion.

I agree, abelard, and also with your spec that Varys was using Illyrio as an unwitting intel source, rather than a co-conspirator. Meanwhile, the sorceror-in-a-box is a new Kings's Landing-based WMD made available to Tyrion.

Re: shimpy's spec about who Shae remained behind to kill...We still don't know her origins, but she too has probably been most candid with Tyrion.  So she's high-born and (I forget what else she chose to reveal in the drinking game). She seems to have been fleeing something -- a terrible betrothal or marriage? -- or set out to the Lannister camp with a purpose.  If "set out with a purpose," I think she was willing to abandon that purpose when she proposed to Tyrion that they escape to the South and vanish into ordinary life.  She may take it up again.  What she was not wiling to abandon, it seems, are those she's come to love.  I'm sure she'll be rewarded for her loyalty!  That will be good to see.  

[stillshimpy]

I don't think Shae is highborn, by the way.  I've never been sure why anyone else does.  She had too little knowledge of what a maid would do, beyond that, when she told Varys "I have a name" she was just referring to her first name (I think).  She also said that she hadn't been a child since she was nine and that her mother had made sure of that.  That is too much like one of the "It is Known" girls stories for it not to indicate that Shae was sold or given to a Brothel/Pleasure House.  

So unless she outright says, "Dude, I'm highborn." and provides details to back that up,  I think she's just a kickass concubine who really would kill to protect Sansa or Tyrion.  Talisa was highborn and there was such a marked difference in their manner.  Even the way Shae walks is interesting to me, because she's one of the least graceful women in this show.  I don't mean that as a slam, I actually really appreciate that about the character and the choice the actor makes with her.  

There have been scenes where Shae's body language vs.  Sansa's very careful, ramrod-straight bearing have bee in contrast while Shae (relative to Sansa) stomps around with sloping shoulders.  It's actually a pretty brilliant choice on the actor's part, I think, so if they try to convince me Shae's highborn at this point, I'd be amazed and wouldn't buy it.  In that episode I watched the other day, there's a scene with Tyrion, Sansa and Shae walking.  Shae is walking behind Sansa and wow, did the difference in their bearing ever stand out.  Not just from Sansa to Shae, but from Tyrion, to Sansa, to Shae.  

I completely forgot about that damned Sorcerer-in-a-Box.  Yikes.  I have Post-Traumatic-Show-Disorder when it comes to all things torture related, because I can barely force myself to even listen to those scenes.  Sidenote: The sound is often the worst part I've learned through painful experience. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by stillshimpy

[janjan]

I'm sure [shae]'ll be rewarded for her loyalty! 

Pallas, what show have you been watching?

 

[stillshimpy]

Rewarded in that, "Perhaps there's a better world after the suffering of this one" way? 

[RadiantAerynSun]

I have to think Theon and Yara will be significant, because there was SOME reason why they called the other two Greyjoy actors back at the very end of Season 3 to reprise their appearances. It wasn't just a footnote.

[WhiteStumbler]

stillshimpy:

There have been scenes where Shae's body language vs.  Sansa's very careful, ramrod-straight bearing have bee in contrast while Shae (relative to Sansa) stomps around with sloping shoulders.  It's actually a pretty brilliant choice on the actor's part, I think, so if they try to convince me Shae's highborn at this point, I'd be amazed and wouldn't buy it.  In that episode I watched the other day, there's a scene with Tyrion, Sansa and Shae walking.  Shae is walking behind Sansa and wow, did the difference in their bearing ever stand out.  Not just from Sansa to Shae, but from Tyrion, to Sansa, to Shae.  

This reminds me of Maester Pycell for some reason, "putting on" his Old Grey Man act like a suit of clothes after his tryst with a prostitute? Not saying that Shae is actually Highborn and is playing the same deeeeep game as Pycell, just that it is possible.

There is a whole alternate narrative to GoT called "Theon Should Have". Theon should have remembered what a Grade A Asshat his father was before offering to be Robb's envoy. Theon should have sent the warning to Robb that he burned instead. Theon should have sucked it up when he couldn't find Bran and Rickon the Walnut Slayer. Theon should have taken Maester Leuwin's advice and headed for the Wall when he and his crew were besieged at Winterhell (Arya: 'Winterfell' Hotpie: Are you sure? Arya: grrrrr...).

So now what? I have to admit that I am now, officially close to saturation point on Theon torture. I understand a lot of Spitballers said "enough!" fairly early on, and I would begin to have the same thoughts until I would see the next episode's Opening Credits and there would be Winterfell a smoking ruin, and I would think 'Idiot Theon! Getting what you deserve!! BRING ON THE TORTURE!!!' I am finally close to being done with that, and would now, officially like SOMETHING else to happen to the Wreck Formerly Known As Theon.

New topic: Great to hear SO many familiar voices chiming in! I loved the Varys analysis re: Illyrio the Wedding Planner - Varys pretending to want a return of the Targs in order to get more info on their movements and plans makes sense.

Prediction: Hodor will say "Hodor", and it will be filled with meaning.

And finally... LESS THAN A WEEK!!! Need to get moving on my re-watch.

[DirewolfPup]

I have to think Theon and Yara will be significant, because there was SOME reason why they called the other two Greyjoy actors back at the very end of Season 3 to reprise their appearances. It wasn't just a footnote.

Agreed. I've been racking my brains trying to decipher why Balon and Yara are significant to the storyline. If we ignore all unknowns (aka, plots/people/places that aren't in the show), I think the Iron Islands are one of the few holds that have several ships. Stannis is the only other I can think of with any large amounts of ships, but I'm unsure of the fleet size after Blackwater Bay.

Total spitball here. All this magic is coming back. Direwolves south of the wall, wargs, dragons, White Walkers, warlocks gaining more power. What if there is a sea creature that has yet to play a role in the story. A Kraken perhaps? That is the Greyjoy sigil after all. Maybe there are other sea creatures that will threaten cities. Iron Islands could be a key to combating them. or they can join up with someone else and I'm just completely wrong.

side note : Greyjoy is an apt name for that family... Smile, Balon! Your castrated only son, Reek, is home!

Edited April 2, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[WhiteStumbler]

Palals:

Uh-oh...I do feel Tywin is going to try to press Jaime into stud service somewhere -- "You did manage to escape with that, yes?" -- and that's another possibility. Jamie told to sub for Joffrey, or Jaime -- upon Joffrey's death -- told to marry the Black Widow of Dorne.  Cercei might wig out.

I just realized the implications of this... Seven Hells! A royal brother and sister, one a (gay) knight of great renown, the other a ruthless political operative raising an Army of Orphans in Flea Bottom, married to another (incestuous) brother and sister, one a knight of great renown who is now sans a hand (and was accused of killing his former king), the other a manipulative drunk with an out-of-control tyrant for a son. It would make such a complex web of relations even Lady Olenna couldn't parse it all.

[RadiantAerynSun]

 

Reek Formerly Known As Theon.

FTFY.

Perhaps while on her mission to save Theon, Yara will wind up helping out with the fight up north against the WWs. Stannis is headed that way too--maybe they will realize it's in their best interest to work together, with or without Theon/Reek.

[abelard]

Crippling him in multiple ways is just too much punishment, even for the guy who killed two children for the purposes of props .

 shimpy, a shout-out to you for this line!  And I didn't even think about the fact that Theon *knows for sure* that Rickon and Bran are alive, and could still spill those beans.  UGH THEON STOP SUCKING ALREADY.  Then again, it would be pretty cool if Theon-Reek played the faithful Igor (as you posted) to Ramsey the Bastard, and then turned on him suddenly in the night and slit his throat.  That would be gratifying.  

I would love to know Shae's backstory (and IA she's not highborn -- b/c Talisa was highborn-but-slumming-it [sort of], and Shae is not doing that, she's doing something else -- but what?).  But the thing is, I'm pretty sure Shae is done for this season.  It's just been one time too many that Tywin has threatened Tyrion that if he catches him with his whore....  Tywin doesn't need to finish that sentence for me to start filling in blanks with words like, "Ser Ilyn Payne takes out his sword and pincers and..."  I like Shae a TON and don't want it to happen but I really think it will.  And this is why even though I do want to know where Shae comes from...I also really don't.  No need to get more attached to the next victim of the Lannisters.

I like Yara a ton also and am also really frightened for her.  However, this suggestion would be awesome:

What if there is a sea creature that has yet to play a role in the story. A Kraken perhaps? That is the Greyjoy sigil after all. 

 DirewolfPup, a Kraken appearing would be freaking amazing.  Maybe a Kraken would be useful against White Walkers? 

[Pallas]

Love the idea of the Kraken arising!  Against the White Walkers, or just entangling a Bolton or two.  "Flay this, chum." 

Do we think there's room on The Redemption Train for Theon, too? Jaime gets to ride up with the engineer, but might Theon get tossed aboard an open freight car, near the rear? Surely he has spent some time while being whittled to compose even more verses to WhiteStumbler's tavern song, "Theon Should Have." He knows that he's one of the few to know that the Stark boys are still alive  -- or at least, that he didn't kill them. He thinks he knows that he has no other value to anyone alive or to the universe. He has, even in only selfish terms, this one opportunity to do something that matters. And he would have the chance to take a tiny bit of pride in demonstrating or just knowing that the Bastard never managed to separate him from this information: he held fast to it. If Yara can get him to the Wall...

Point taken about Shae's perhaps not being raised high-born, shimpy and abelard. I still wonder if she's an aristocrat's bastard, then, or even a useless girl given away from a high-born family. I took her at her word when she corrected Tyrion in the drinking game, though she might just have tweaking him about his lordly assumptions. You're right that her carriage and manner are very different even from Talisa in demi-disguise as a nurse.  Several in our TWoP thread speclated that Talisa was a spy: perhaps it's Shae who was sent to the Lannister camp to spy and the notorious Tyrion chosen as her chump.  She very nearly decamped King's Landing during the Blackwater battle, and that may have been the point where she abandoned her original mission.  Varys couldn't tempt her with his promise of safety and riches in part because she had already chosen against greater claims on her, to stay with Tyrion and Sansa.   

[stillshimpy]

I thought he blurted that out right after they came back from the "escape", before he got flayed again?

You may be right and I do seem to recall Theon saying something, but I hated those scenes in their entirety and refuse to rewatch the damned things.  I can't decide whether it would have been worse if a character I really liked had been in that situation; or if it was rendered worse by having a character I could barely tolerate onscreen as it was.  

Did Theon blab about the boys? If so, now it becomes imperative for Theon to kill Ramsay.  I just want someone to kill Ramsay.  The bastard shot and killed his own men in trying to dupe Theon.  Plus, I hated the Iron Islanders too, but that little detail of Ramsay flaying all of them? At least Joffrey is occasionally some fun.  Ramsay's is just grotesque. 

[DirewolfPup]

I really like this, Constantinople!

We've all predicted that Frey will get his due justice for the Red Wedding. Your assessment that Bolton's men may rebel if times get hard, and they will get hard, would bode well for viewers and rooters of all non-Lannister allies. Plus, how exactly is Bolton getting Winterfell? Wasn't the whole point of Tyrion marrying Sansa to secure the north for them and their children? Will they kick Bolton out after the war is over? Does Bolton realize this? Bolton doesn't want his dream job taken away by a dwarf with a big name and his wife.

I'd like to make one, concrete prediction for the next season: The Brotherhood without Banners will grow and be a force that will cause major problems. All the nice, good guys are being killed (Ned, Renly, Robb). These men were leaders who inspired fairness and civility. Men are going to start abandoning the Lannisters, Freys, Boltons, and maybe even Stannis who have shown that they care more for themselves or their "cause," money, ego more than the will of the people. I'd be rooting for tBwoB if it wasn't for the Lord of Light affiliation. I still don't like this god situation.

--------------------------------------

Dany. Just like Constantinople said above, she now has money, fear, and love. The Westerosi Trifecta! Something else has to cause problems for her this season. The way the plot is moving in Westeros, I don't think they're super ready (plot-wise) for dragons and ex-slave armies storming on their shores.

1) To slow her down, maybe there will be unrest in her armies. She's got her loyal Dothraki, but there can't be more than a dozen of those guys left. Are they upset with all these mega soldiers taking their queen away from them? I don't see the unsullied being a problem. Then there's the Astopor slaves now, too. They could get a sense of unrighteous entitlement much like the post-Egypt/plagues story in the Bible. All the grumbling against god and whatnot.

2) Dragons are getting bigger and harder to control. They could start accidentally setting people on fire, or attacking cities out of bloodlust. Dogs need walks. Cats need naps. What do dragons need?

As an aside, get your act together Westeros. They barely acknowledge that she's over there with DRAGONS. You'd think Tywin would get worried after two city sieges and 8 thousand unsullied loyal to her cause. Forget the 3 dragons, she's got everything going for her to kick some Westerosi ass.

Edited April 3, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[AlphaLine]

Hi All! Nice to see ya at the new forums.

Bran being 'Lord of the holdfast' was brought up a few pages ago. I don't think that means anything. A holdfast means a small castle or manor house, something that would be given to a minor lord ( you can see one of these complaining to Bran early in season 2, he says that the walls of his holdfast are getting weak, or something ), and Bran becoming one makes sense since he can't be a knight and has an elder brother who will inherit winterfell. Ned tells Arya she can't be a lord of a holdfast or anything else but rather that she would marry an important Lord , he's not being sexist here but simply explaining what their patriarchial society expects of women.

Second thing about Littlefinger. I doubt he is walking into the Eyrie completely unprepared just like that. For one thing, Lysa is insane and he has to know about it, she was willing to just toss Tyrion ( who is a much more important lord than Littlefinger ) out just like that, and also the kid is technically heir to the vale and the soldiers in the Eyrie would not be loyal to Littlefinger over the Arryns. I suspect Littlefinger is walking on thin ice there and he knows it , one bad move and he gets sent flying ( see season 2  'power is power' scene ). What seems far more likely to me is that this marriage is just as much to Lysa's liking as Littlefinger , and that probably has to do with his childhood growing up in the Tully household.

One character I am really wondering about is Gendry. Going back to KL is a bad idea, the Brotherhood is obviously out, Dragonstone for sure, he can't even go to the wall as originally planned because Stannis will be hanging around there. Dany is an option like some mentioned but I doubt she'd be pleased with the son of 'the Usurper' turning up. No matter what Arya may have thought, making swords for Robb was never more than a pipe dream anyway and even that is shot to hell. I guess the best thing for him would be to find a village and become the local blacksmith - like Hotpie 'Hey i got employed at an inn.. And you'll never see me again'. But that's not really possible story wise, as being the son of Robert, Gendry is simply a lot more important than Hotpie to just disappear like that. Well, let's see.

[90PercentGravity]

Dany is an option like some mentioned but I doubt she'd be pleased with the son of 'the Usurper' turning up.

There has been some speculation about how much of a threat Gendry is to Stannis/Lannisters. Conventional wisdom would suggest he is not a threat, given that he is a bastard, but the fact that Joffrey had all those kids murdered suggests otherwise. If Gendry is the firstborn bastard and has some claim to the throne as a result, then maybe Dany would have some interest in him. Being married to him would give her additional claim to the throne. The only problem is, is there even anyone alive who can vouch for Gendry? It's not like DNA is a thing in this world. And I'm sure he's not the only young man running around with dark eyes and hair.

[stillshimpy]

The only problem is, is there even anyone alive who can vouch for Gendry? It's not like DNA is a thing in this world. And I'm sure he's not the only young man running around with dark eyes and hair.

Good point, but in fairness, Ned Stark -- not exactly a master sleuth or prone to flights of fancy -- was able to figure out that Gendry was Robert's son by looking at him closely.  Apparently he resembles a young Robert, so I think his face backs the claim.  Not that that would help much.  Gendry has no rightful claim, but the importance of magic seems to be coming to the surface, so perhaps the more important part is that somewhere inside of Gendry is Robert's bloodline.  We're given to understand Robert -- despite being a rotund alcoholic when we met him -- had been a great warrior.   

Davos freed him because he was Stannis's blood and his nephew.  I don't think he'll ever have a legitimate claim , but this story seldom ever does anything because it seems merciful or right, quite the opposite actually, so I'm assuming there's a bigger story purpose for Gendry.  Since Melisandre wanted to use his blood because it has power, I'm assuming that that will be the key to his purpose.  

I think Joffrey had those children killed to punish Cersei as much as anything.  Everyone in the Kingdom assumes that she ordered the mass slaughter of innocents.  That's kind of a big deal even in a world with few rules, at least I think. 

*throws down smoke bomb and vanishes*

*cough, cough* Hey, thanks for the heads up and the cool party trick.     

[RadiantAerynSun]

A while ago I was thinking that Gendry was actually the Warrior of Light that Melisandre mistook Stannis to be. Perhaps he in fact is, but now that they've encountered each other and not come to that conclusion... I'm less sure. (Actually started thinking maybe the WoL was in fact Daenerys). But it's still possible Gendry plays some important role along those lines due to his bloodlines. The fact that his blood produced results (ie Robb dead) does make me think there is something to his family's power with the LoL. Wasn't something said about Thoros being sent to King's Landing originally in order to bring Robert around to the LoL? And Melisandre I guess took Stannis as a Plan B?  So seems the servants of the LoL know that a Baratheon is key, but may not have been sure which Baratheon it was. Or it may not matter which it is. I still think it could be Gendry...

Hmm okay I am going to go ahead and postulate that Stannis will meet his maker, maybe nobly fighting the WWs, and Gendry comes back around as being the most important Baratheon to the LoL.

[Pallas]

A while ago I was thinking that Gendry was actually the Warrior of Light that Melisandre mistook Stannis to be. Perhaps he in fact is, but now that they've encountered each other and not come to that conclusion... I'm less sure. (Actually started thinking maybe the WoL was in fact Daenerys).

I like this line of thought, Radiant Aeryn Sun. It seems pretty clear that while Melisandre has some real powers of sight, her interpretations leave a lot to be desired. Or put another way, she is adept at foreseeing the shapes of things to come, but no genius at divining exactly how it comes about. Not much better than us Unsullied, in fact.

"Warrior King," she sensed, and at first concluded, "Well, that must be Robert Baratheon; who else could it be?" But first Robert showed no interest in converting to the worship of the Lord of Light, then Robert lost all interest in anything: boared to death, was Robert Baratheon. Melisandre recalculated the route.  "When I said, 'Warrior King Baratheon,' obviously, I meant..." and she found in Stannis someone vulnerable to being championed. But it looks as if she has again missed the mark, and I love the idea that she was blind to the idea of a godly female ruler. Dany is the only contender who actually brings something to the game of defeating the White Walkers, and Melisandre didn't think her worthy of a leech.  Instead, she is sending poor dogged Stannis north into another bloodbath.  

Dogs need walks. Cats need naps. What do dragons need? -- DirewolfPup

Cable.

[abelard]

Dany is the only contender who actually brings something to the game of defeating the White Walkers, and Melisandre didn't think her worthy of a leech. --Pallas  

I actually think this is pretty important.  Stannis cursed all the "usurpers" with the magical Gendry-blood leeches, and we've already seen one of them die (Robb, *meep*).  What if that particular spell really worked, and all of the kings cursed with it will definitely die?  That means Joffrey and Vile Daddy Greyjoy will soon be gone.  But Dany wasn't cursed.  (Though by this standard, neither was the King Beyond the Wall cursed.)  I wonder if that alone will leave Dany (or Mance Rayder, ha!) last Queen standing. 

I think that Gendry's blood mattered, not for any sensical sense, but because of "magic-needs-certain-someone's-blood" sense.  Melisandre's blood-leech spell against the "usurpers" required Robert's blood, for whatever reason.  So, Gendry was important for this purpose.  Why it had to be Robert's son, I don't get.  Why couldn't it be Stannis's blood - Robert's brother?  But maybe it specifically had to be Robert's son and someone who was Not!Stannis in order for Stannis to benefit from the curse.  Oh, and also: they wanted to kill Gendry as a sacrifice to the Red God to ensure some bigger magic, that's why Davos helped Gendry escape.  But anyway, I think Gendry's "magical" usefulness is over with - he was only magical to Melisandre.  I expect him now to become just some young man wandering about, looking for a (noble) purpose.  I hope he finds it.  I would've thought the Brotherhood would have been a pretty good deal for him, but that all went to hell in a hurry as most things do on this show.

I do wonder where the Brotherhood is going to figure in this thing.  I thought they were going to be some kind of cool armed radical Socialist liberation front or something, some anti-monarchy team that I could get behind, but by the end of Arya's time with them, I really felt pretty skeeved out by them.  The whole LoL thing and then even with that magic they couldn't beat the Hound (even though they're Team Lord of Light and the Hound's greatest fear is fire!!!), and they DID lie to Gendry and Arya, and their leader is in league with Melisandre just by virtue of the LoL affiliation.  Now I really don't like the Brotherhood and am quite suspicious of them. 

Btw I am in the middle of S2 in my rewatch and jeebus but S2 is, I think, the darkest and most terrifying season (so far).  Yoren's amazing last stand and brutal death (followed by way more deaths), all that business with Harrenhal, everything that Team Arya saw there (the rat-in-bucket torture method), Sansa getting stripped and beaten in the throne room, the whores being instructed by Joffrey in horrible sadistic ways, the Smoke Baby being "born" in that supercreepy scene, Ned's remains being brought to Cat in a box (by Littlefinger, UGH, he is SUCH a liar in that scene), Theon's hacktastic beheading of Ser Rodrik while Bran and Rickon look on, begging and pleading for Theon to stop -- there was just a lot in this season that was truly awful and scary.  

Edited April 4, 2014 by abelard

[abcfsk]

Well it doesn't seem like Melisandre is 100% in control over her powers either - she made an excuse for why Stannis lost the battle of the blackwater but obviously if she _knew_ that was how it was going to go she would've said so or forced her way to join them. She senses signals from her lord (or creates them herself if she's a good enough scam artist but since there are other groups following his light as well..) but doesn't seem like she commands his power entirely at will. So they cursed some guys but I'm not sure it will lead to their death just like that. Of course the creators may still use that as a foreshadowing.

I do wonder how the religion stuff wil play out in the long run, it's fascinating to me and a worthy addition to the show even if we don't get clear answers, because it reveals a lot abou the characters and the sort of symbols and guiding lights they're looking for in this increasingly depressing kingdom life. The SHow has not really given us clear clues on which religions, if any, are phony, and which, if any, is the true force behind things. Both The North's and King's Landing's and Melisandre's gods have felt relatively authentic, if used for some 'skeevy' things.  As has also been pointed out before, the red god may to a larger extent than the others simply be a case of magical tricks though, manipulated by the priest. 

Edited April 4, 2014 by abcfsk

[DirewolfPup]

Melissandre was going to sacrifice Gendry for some really powerful magic since the leeches "proved effective." (Personally, I won't believe that until one of the other two die as well). Daavos let Gendry go. So Melissandre could either hunt him down again, or use Sireen (Stannis' daughter) for an extra dark turn.

For the blood topic, I got the sense that it needed to be Baratheon blood, not specifically Robert's blood. The blood had to be similar to Stannis because Stannis is the one true king. Robert and Renly are dead and have no official heirs. That's why Meli sought out Gendry.

[stillshimpy]

I like this line of thought, Radiant Aeryn Sun. It seems pretty clear that while Melisandre has some real powers of sight, her interpretations leave a lot to be desired. Or put another way, she is adept at foreseeing the shapes of things to come, but no genius at divining exactly how it comes about. Not much better than us Unsullied, in fact.

 

Well and Melisandre may not have power as much as she is being used as a tool.  Wielded like a sword, but about as in the know when it comes to the planned outcome.  That's just a guess, but she clearly does have power and she also clearly misses stuff and just flat-out gets it wrong on occasion. 

Here's another thought on why it had to be Gendry's blood and not Stannis's .  Why it seemingly "got" Robb STark (hey, maybe dark magic was afoot in how stupid the poor guy was in not spotting the setup)...not because "It had to be the blood of a king!" but rather...the blood of a similarly illegitimate King.  Gendry is not legitimate   , so he has no true claim to the actual throne.  Perhaps it wasn't about a legitimate link to the throne but a magical link to illegitimacy?

Now the fun part?  If that's the truth, then Joffrey isn't legitimately a king either.  

Edited April 4, 2014 by stillshimpy

[90PercentGravity]

So Melissandre could either hunt him down again, or use Sireen (Stannis' daughter) for an extra dark turn.

 

I have doubts about her even being Stannis' daughter, though. She seems to have the deformity that Dany's son had. Makes me think maybe Mrs Stannis had an affair with a Targaryan. Or maybe his wife has Targaryan blood. We don't know much about her.

Dany could probably use Gendry's smithing skills. She has a lot of foot soldiers, but does she have much in the way of field support (or whatever)? It seems like the guys from the east were mostly wearing leather armor, also. Not that Gendry could outfit her whole crew by himself, but he might be able to train some of them.

[DirewolfPup]

"Here's another thought on why it had to be Gendry's blood and not Stannis's ."

She couldn't use Stannis' blood because he was "week my king!" That was the scene with her leaving on the boat early in Season 3.

[Pallas]

I would've thought the Brotherhood would have been a pretty good deal for him, but that all went to hell in a hurry as most things do on this show.

-- abelard

This made me laugh in that special, "How Game of Thrones makes me laugh" way.  

What if the White Walkers win and everything is for naught? If the whole story is the answer to question, why doesn't anyone go to Westeros anymore (assuming that the White Walkers can't get to Essos).

Ordinarily, I'd say a story where the bad guys win wouldn't happen, but hey. Perhaps the survivors flee to Essos and become subjects of Daenerys's New & Improved Seven Kingdoms. -- Constantinople

I do wonder if the great big story might roll that way, Constantinople. Not simply an assortment of personal misfortunes, but a huge social and cultural tragedy like many of our 20th century -- irremediable; irredeemable. Noah, if you will. Magic as the great force of nature -- the great force of The Way Things Are -- resisted, flouted and even denied by humankind for too long.  Are the Starks are the only family whose "words" even acknowledge nature as a part of life.?  Rather than Foam Finger boasts like "We Do Not Sow"? .

..Not because "It had to be the blood of a king!" but rather...the blood of a similarly illegitimate King.  Gendry is not legitimate   , so he has no true claim to the actual throne.  Perhaps it wasn't about a legitimate link to the throne but a magical link to illegitimacy?

Now the fun part?  If that's the truth, then Joffrey isn't legitimately a king either. -- stillshimpy 

And there are those -- mostly, keeping company with Dany -- who argue that Robert was not a legitimate monarch, either. Joffrey's just a double-bastard.

 

[janjan]

Robert lost all interest in anything: boared to death

Hee! Pallas strikes again!

Speaking of Magic Ladies, whatever happened to the one with the face armor talking to Jorah in Qarth?

And whatever happened to Uncle BenJen? If Quoran Halfhand can survive a winter north of the wall, maybe there's hope for Benjen.

Items from tne news (non-spoilery, of course):

• A teacher somewhere found the perfect method for dealing with a rowdy class. She told them if they didn't quiet down, she would write GoT spoilers on the board. An almost religious silence ensued. (In deference to GoT, I think they should have said a sepulchre silence.)
• On the male frontal front (finally! some equal time!), the actor who plays Hodor referred in an interview to the scene where he first meets Osha and she greatly admires, er, him. He said the scene "involved prosthetics." Another illusion shattered.

[RadiantAerynSun]

Oh, now I will worry about poor little Shireen :( There has to be some reason she's in this story and maybe being a victim of Melisandre is the reason... unless it was just to teach Davos to read. I have no idea "what" is wrong with her face, did they even say? I just sense maybe they were ashamed of her and that's why she was kept in the tower. Her mother apparently had several unhealthy offspring, maybe she was just slightly luckier than the others and at least survived.

[WhiteStumbler]

I have no idea "what" is wrong with her face, did they even say?

Not the dreaded "Porridge Face", I hope!

I don't recall what (or if) Show said it was.

[DirewolfPup]

Yes, Janjan. Scrabble face apparently played the crucial role of exposing Jorah to the audience, telling us information we already knew. Then she vanished into the world where painting naked people is a productive use of time. This highlights one of a few frustrating bits about season 2 that I just can't let go.

Poor Benjen. Seriously would like some closure on this plotline, mr. show!

edit: bolded Janjan

Edited April 4, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[WhiteStumbler]

This highlights one of a few frustrating bits about season 2 that I just can't let go.

Where muh dragons at?