Completely Unspoiled Speculation Thread

[DirewolfPup]

Milk Carton updates!!

 

Benjen Stark - #1 Missed Missing Person. Hasn't been seen since his trek north of the wall in Season 1

Gendry - Floating in the boat of bloody misfortune, or in KL already. We now know the magical speedy qualities of boats

Jorah Mormont - Will we see him after his banishment? Yes, but only when Dany needs him.

Bronn - M.I.A. since getting wife and land. He had to kill his wife's older sister to get tonnes of money. Maybe we'll see him again when the money runs out.

Nymeria - On the lam since S01E02

Brotherhood with out Banners - not even mentioned this season

Scrabble-Face Lady from Qarth - Left as quickly as she came

J'aqen Hagar - he's back in Braavos or playing the role of Lannister solder

Blackfish - Fled the Red Wedding. Hasn't been seen since.

Lancel Lannister - Alive. Last seen at the Battle of Blackwater Bay. Mentioned by Jamie S04E06.

Syrio Forell - presumed dead after killing Stark allies in S01E07

 

Edit - Added more Milk Carton-ers

 

*aside: Why hasn't the magical blood leech killed Papa Greyjoy yet?  Also, no death for Frey or Bolton for their "rat cook" misdeeds. No justice at all.

Edited June 16, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[WhiteStumbler]

MOAR Jaqen H'ghar PLEASE!

[abelard]

Also, no death for Frey or Bolton for their "rat cook" misdeeds. No justice at all.

 

Rat cook justice is coming for them both.  In the form of a little girl with a Needle, or otherwise.  I loved that after the Red Wedding, Bran told that story about the Rat Cook and the grave injustice of killing your guests.  Him choosing to tell that Old Nan-esque story, out of the blue, was a better illustration of Bran's "seeing" powers than anything else, imo.  I really think Bran knew something had happened to his mother and to Robb, maybe he didn't know exactly what or how or by whom, but I think he felt a disturbance in the Force, and the only thing that came clearly to his mind was the brilliantly (tragically) apt rat cook story.  That was just a great Show moment, for me.

 

I wonder if Arya is going to be forever disappointed that she doesn't get to kill some of the people on her list, b/c other people will kill them for her?  Like, Joffrey is already down, and she seemed a little bummed over it.  And The Mountain is now dead, too (both she and The Hound will be bummed it wasn't they who did the deed).  But I think many other names on that list will fall to others' swords.  I would be shocked, I suppose, if Arya actually managed to kill Tywin Lannister, Walder Frey, and Roose Bolton.  Like, she could maybe get to one of those, but could she get to all three?  They are the freaking Lords of their keeps, one of them is basically the ruler of the 7K.  I dunno, I just don't see it.  Ilyn Payne, yes I think she could near enough to him.  Cersei?  I've got money on Cersei for death by her own hand, actually.  Later if not sooner.

 

HOWEVER, my big prediction for the last ep of this season is that The Hound will die from his festering wound (with a possible Arya mercy-slaying thrown in), and Arya will hie off to Braavos and become a Faceless Woman, like Mystique in X-Men lore.  Maybe with a shapeshifting ability, Arya could get close to anyone she chose. 

Edited June 12, 2014 by abelard

[stillshimpy]

That's sort of what I've been assuming also, abelard, when it comes to The Hound.  That Arya will be faced with needing to kill The Hound, but not wishing to.  Admittedly, The Hound would have to be very badly off not to simply finish the task himself. Unless he fears the afterlife is filled with flames or something, but that seems like something that would have come up by now.  

 

Maybe The Hound will get better?  He was definitely moving slowly, and they did make sort of a big deal out of his injury, but perhaps they'll just allow him to live?  Jamie lived with a much worse injury.  Maybe they'll start trudging off toward the Wall and encounter Brienne and Pod?  I know that Starks never run into one another, but that would actually keep Brienne from going to the Eyrie, wouldn't it?  If she knew of Lyssa's death, found Arya and The Hound and perhaps get him help?  

 

Probably not.  I think he's supposed to have a blood infection, so it's unlikely.  Actually, I wonder if we'll even see them again this season?   

 

As for the Milk Carton crew, Benjen has to be the person to crop back up in some respect, doesn't he?  Either word of him, "Benjen Stark, yes, here are his bones, charred to keep him from rising."  Or that really is who Bran is being drawn towards.  Pallas, has speculated that perhaps Benjen is also a warg/seer.  

 

I don't expect that we'll see Jorah again this season.  I do think we sort of have to catch-up with whatever is going on with Stannis.

[abelard]

I think we will see The Hound and Arya next ep, and I think we will see Stannis and Davos and Mel and NoNameWife.  I am not sure if we'll see Brienne and Pod, or Jorah.  Seems like their stories could "keep" until next season, conceivably.  And unfortunately, it seems we've got more Wall to deal with.  And a lot of the Tyrion plot!!!

 

I agree with Pallas that Benjen must be gifted (as a "warg/seer") the same way Bran is, or some variant thereof.  I do think we'll see Benjen again, if not next ep, then next season...?

[Pallas]

Rat cook justice is coming for them both. -- abelard

I hope he is around for a while. He has nearly as much snark as Tyrion. -- WhiteStumbler, speaking of Edd, from the ep 9 thread

 

The Rat Cook Justice Pack: a Westerosi saga about a league of swinger-avengers.  

 

Thinking on WhiteStumbler's point, I wonder if maybe we've happened upon a talisman, a saving grace: snark.  He or she who snarks shall live?  Among the many, many dead, I can't think of one who really lived to skewer.  Not like Tyrion, Jaime, Varys, Olenna or Edd (by WhiteStumbler's account).  The Hound -- definitely endangered -- is a little too overtly melancholy: his asides are more grumbles or growls than snark; he bitches in the time-honored way of fighting men.  

 

Of course those who dish out the snark serve the story and the audience.  None of us are wondering, O death, where is thy sting?  The snark is not a remedy or even much of a balm, but at least it abrades in another direction; it changes the tenor of the wince.  Maybe the Creator has not only a soft spot for the snarkers, but a crying need for them to survive?    

[stillshimpy]

Yoren seemed sort of snarky and he had both Bronn and Edd characteristics.  Maybe they just take longer to die?  Game of Thrones: The Earnest Die First.  

[gingerella]

Oooh, I love the idea that snarky people survive in this land. That would be delicious. And honestly, the snark, while funny, is usually the truth told in a way to make fun of oneself or others to ease the burden of whatever is being snarked upon. So maybe the snarkers are also the truth tellers in A Story?

 

I would be shocked, I suppose, if Arya actually managed to kill Tywin Lannister, Walder Frey, and Roose Bolton.  Like, she could maybe get to one of those, but could she get to all three?  They are the freaking Lords of their keeps, one of them is basically the ruler of the 7K.  I dunno, I just don't see it.

abelard, I could totally see this being not only possible, but highly likely.  Here's how it could easily happen...Arya uses her magic coin to get herself to Braavos and enrolls in A Man's Finishing School for Shape Shifting Assassins. Fini, end of story. Easy peasy as another Jamie would say. I always thought it odd she did not ask A Man to kill Tywin and/or Joffrey, simply because A Man was so adept and sure of himself in never failing in his obligations to her.  At the time, I don't think Arya realized that no matter what name she put on her list, A Man would fulfill his duty. I think she likely thought it had to be someone right there in Harrenhell, but I think she could have said Joffrey and A Man would have still been able to find a way...speaking of A Man...I clearly remember when she put his own name on The List, but did she ever take his name off the list before they parted company? I cannot remember.

[Pallas]

Time, then, to join the predictions!  Sue Ann Nivens, the Happy Homewrecker comes to mind: "Now, if you want to tidy up in a hurry, think of your living room as a big clock. Start at midnight, and then go around the room working clockwise toward the kitchen. You'll be done in two shakes of a lamb's tail."

 

So, starting at midnight: the North.  

• Jon: we may see Jon get as far as the first encampment of Wildlings, armed only with janjan's story about being the sole survivor of the raiding party that entered from the South.  That ruse itself may be enough of a twist to wrap him up for the season.  
• Bran, Reeds and Hodor: I think they arrive at...their arrival place.  A weirwood.  The Winterfell weirwood?  Was "North" not the direction of the tree, but its name?  Or is there another, First Weirwood somewhere else?  At this tree, Bran will see/hear something incredibly portentous yet equally ambiguous. Jojen may not survive it.  
• Boltons (sigh).  A Show may think we got off lightly last week, and need to see the Flayers amid the smolders.  If so, I think Theon will crack a little more.

 

King's Landing

• The rescue/escape of Tyrion
• The death of Tywin?

 

That's all I can surmise right now.  Stannis for sure, wherever he may be and wherever he may be headed -- I think North and not King's Landing.  Because it would be in keeping with A Show's sense of humor if the one lord who took seriously (well, everything) the threat in the North, took arms against it and by so doing, was exactly where he could not take advantage of Tywin's downfall. Acting like a king may cost Stannis the crown.  

[Snowblack]

I think the final scene will be Bran finding...something.  I don't know whether he gets north to that tree or if he just finds more people to help him on his quest.  But I think it will be a breathtaking final moment that opens the door to many possibilities in the north for next season, just as the White Walker staring at Sam did.

[DirewolfPup]

My predictions are always horrendous. If 20% of what I predict happens, I deserve a whole cookie. For the final episode, here's what I got:

 

1) The results of Tyrion's trial will be determined.  I'm 30/20/50 on how A Story will do this.

                30% chance : He will live via escape. Someone will help him out (Jamie, Elyria, Varys, Tywin, Tyrells are the only options I can think of)

                20% chance : Tommen becomes a leader and pardons Tyrion based on new evidence that comes to light (Margaery, etc)

                - If Tyrion survives because Tommen's pardon, Cersei will go insane. She will recieve dead Mycella in a box delivered from Dorne for the death of Oberyn. Cersei kills herself.              

                50% chance : Tyrion's dead

2) Jon will get captured by the wildlings, and Mance will say something ominous.

3) The Greyjoys or Boltons will have a brief scene where they scowl.

4) Stannis and Davos are on a boat.  Melissandre, wife, and Shireen are also on a boat. Maybe the same boat.

5) Arya and the Hound will walk some more and talk darkly about killing people. Brienne and Pod will find them.

6) The Bran Muffins will find the Weirwood Tree. Epic magic happens.

7) Dany's dragons will have a scene doing something. We've only seen them twice all season for goodness sakes.

8) LF/Sansa plot something evil together and Sansa gets erie (ha) satisfaction out of hurting others the way she was hurt.

 

Who won't we see, besides the almighty milk carton group

1) Freys

2) Either Greyjoys or Boltons. The others will have their scowling scene.

3) Dorne or any of the Dornish folk

4) Tyrells possibly, or Tommen

5) Sam/Gilly

Edited June 13, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[DirewolfPup]

I added these 3 to my milk carton crew

Brotherhood with out Banners - not even mentioned this season

Scrabble-Face Lady from Qarth - Left as quickly as she came

J'aqen Hagar - he's back in Braavos or playing the role of Lannister solder

+

Blackfish - Fled the Red Wedding. Hasn't been seen since.

Edited June 13, 2014 by DirewolfPup

[WhiteStumbler]

I would add The Blackfish to Westeros MIA list.

[abelard]

I would add The Blackfish to Westeros MIA list.

Oh how I hope that Blackfish has somehow made his way to the Umbers, and that he is covertly raising/training Rickon!  I don't even need to see that depicted.  Many seasons from now, it would be fine if Grown!Rickon rode into Winterfell like a boss, and told a great story about how he and Osha had just made it to the Umbers when his Great-Uncle Blackfish stumbled in, and how the Umbers + Blackfish + Osha all helped to raise him to be a great and kind Warden of the North.

[Anothermi]

• Bran, Reeds and Hodor: I think they arrive at...their arrival place.  A weirwood.  The Winterfell weirwood?  Was "North" not the direction of the tree, but its name?  Or is there another, First Weirwood somewhere else?  At this tree, Bran will see/hear something incredibly portentous yet equally ambiguous. Jojen may not survive it.   - Pallas

This bolded part was a spitball I flung  quite a few episodes back.  I've kind of dropped it since but knowing what we know now (see quotes below) I am worried that it might be true and that the "Bran Muffins" (™ DirewolfPup) really are heading towards the Flayer Maester. 

 

Theon and the Boltons moving into Winterfell also serves as a good season end point for them. - arry the orphan

Boltons (sigh).  A Show may think we got off lightly last week, and need to see the Flayers amid the smolders.  If so, I think Theon will crack a little more. - Pallas

Mmm-hummm. And of course IF the weirwood tree at Winterfell turns out to be THE weirwood tree, Bolton will be seen ordering it chopped down to make a stock-pile of Flaying crosses.  There have not been enough obstacles to overcome for the Bran Muffins. 

 

And DirewolfPup is on a roll:

2) Jon will get captured by the wildlings, and Mance will say something ominous.

4) Stannis and Davos are on a boat.  Melissandre, wife, and Shireen are also on a boat. Maybe the same boat.

 

#2 seems pretty much like how this Story rolls, and #4 would keep the continuity of Stannis' story at least. ;-)

 

I've decided to not worry about what happens to Tyrion (much).  What ever it will be (and they really DO have to bring some kind of ending to that cliffhanger - even if it's to provide ANOTHER cliffhanger!) all I want is for it to be interesting/unexpected and to have not seen it coming. Is that too much to ask for? I know it's going to get harder as the series progresses, but surely there must be a lot more stuff to introduce that both makes sense and that we haven't thought of? Hopefully?

 

Edited to add: 

Many seasons from now, it would be fine if Grown!Rickon rode into Winterfell like a boss, and told a great story about how he and Osha had just made it to the Umbers when his Great-Uncle Blackfish stumbled in, and how the Umbers + Blackfish + Osha all helped to raise him to be a great and kind Warden of the North. - abelhard

 

And after the story he announces (like a boss) to the remaining Boltons that he is going to Smash Their Heads Apart Like a Walnut! (Rickon: Smash! - for WS).  Then, when he's in control of Winterfell again, he will add a stylized nutcracker to the family Sigil - yes! a Direwolf Nutcracker! 

Edited June 13, 2014 by Anothermi

[WhiteStumbler]

I am so afraid for Tyrion, on Sunday I will cry out - "Bring me my brown pants!"

 

ETA: A prediction - someone will hand over Chekhov's Coin and say "Valar Morghulis".

Edited June 13, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[Pallas]

From the Ep 9 thread:

 

So, we've got two wilding warg "daemons" (stealing from His Dark Materials books) at loose ends - due to the deaths of Orell and, this episode, the Thenn warg .  Do they just revert to normal animals (birds in this case)? We never get to see what happens to them.  They don't seem like the Stark Direwolves  who act a lot more like the Pullman-defined "daemons" - as an integral part of the person they are associated with.  And 'though Bran's direwolf occasionally gets warged, that is not his only connection with Bran.

Sorry if this is not making much sense, it's following up on a forum discussion earlier about what happens if a warged creature is killed while inhabited by a warg. I'm leaning toward warged creatures just being a convenient tool/vessel and not having much of a connection with the warg-er.  So, if the creature is killed, the warg-er would just come back into their own head.  -- anothermi

 

 

I also love how A Show has not only established the fact of wargery, but gives us viewers credit for perceiving it.  No exposition (disguised as bad jokes) from any of the other WIldlings, about what a little bird told the Thenn.  We were expected to watch him get his own eyes back in his own head and sound the charge, then recall the owl and go "Oh -- right; got it." 

 

Which makes me doff my hat to A Show for giving us Varys's explicitly named little birds: the human and non-magical iteration that Varys much prefers. 

 

About the warged animals deprived of their warger.  I think we just don't know.  As I recall, Orell's raven attacked Jon after Orell had breathed his last.  Did Orell transmit the order to do so as his last conscious or unconscious act?  Or did the raven take it on itself to attack Jon, as if Jon had harmed its mate?  Or, did the raven carry on as the vessel and continuation of Orell's spirit -- more or less like Bones, the bearer of Spock's katra?  If so, does Orell's spirit/consciousness co-exist with the raven's, or subsume it?   From what we saw, Hodor reverted entirely to Hodor after Bran used him as a blunt instrument: is this the way it works, or is this something Bran chose?

 

A Show has also established other important human/animal connections.  The (non-Summer) Stark direwolves seemed uncannily bonded to each of their (non-Bran) Starks, but in a way separate from being wargees.  It does seems that within the world of A Show, this human/animal connection is related to extreme environments: the frozen North and the arid South. (Direwolves and dragons; Ice and Fire.)  Environments in which the humans have no choice but to acknowledge and respect their place within, rather than atop, the order of things.  

 

Transported to temperate climes, the dragons died out; the direwolves apparently loped off beyond the Wall to see out even standard winters, only returning in the form of one lone mother wolf, and only on the eve of what bodes to be a ferocious winter.  Meanwhile, though, beyond the Wall, Wildlings were warging birds (and other animals?), while in the desert, Dothraki were still -- as this generation of Starks would become -- preternaturally connected to their sigil-animals. 

 

This aspect of the saga fascinates me, and I do look forward to someday reading about it.  For now, it's among the reasons I'm convinced that GRR Martin is no mere nihilist, and that he has a comprehensive world-view.  One beyond the overt or latent trope of, No One Graduates High School.  I think he sees a world beyond the cafeteria.

[gingerella]

From what we saw, Hodor reverted entirely to Hodor after Bran used him as a blunt instrument: is this the way it works, or is this something Bran chose?

This is true but as Jojen has intimated, Bran's abilities are at an entirely different level to any other person, He Is Special. He Is Unique. At least that's what A Show has been texting me for two seasons now. Bran Is Special. Rickon, not so much...poor Rickon! I want to know how he and Osha and Shaggy Dogg are doing.  Anyway, so far we have seen only Bran warg another human, and since Thenn's and Wildlings seem to really loathe, nee hate, each other, it would seem that we'd have already seen one side warg the other, even if only for shits and giggles. So until A Show tells me otherwise, I'm assuming only Bran can warg another person.  In fact, I think it is possible at some point in the future, we will see Bran warg a WW, or the creepy things that make WWs. I rather think we'll find that Bran can literally warg the shit out of anything with a pulse and then some.  Would it not be fucking cool to see Bran warg one of the dragonettes?  Talk about the wind beneath my wings...

[AlphaLine]

Ok.. things I expect from the last episode

 

1. King's Landing

Tyrion has to escape somehow

Jamie/Cersie/Tywin something

Oberin's widow ( forgot name )/ Tyreells / Other KL stuff

 

There is a metric ton of stuff left in KL I actually wouldn't mind seeing the whole episode as just KL.

Besides the obvious stuff ( like Tyrion escaping ), we haven't seen the Tyrells for quite some time now. Like what happened to Loras/Cersie wedding plans?. Shae/Bronn are loose threads as well. And Varys.

 

2. The Wall

We need to see the conclusion to ep. 9. Hopefully they won't waste too much time on it, it's really irrelevant either way.

 

3. Arya

Arya and Hound have to meet up with Brienne and Podrick ( it's really obvious ). I think one of them will die - probably Hound , and Arya will then leave for Bravos. Should be interesting.

 

4. Dany

We haven't seen Emilia's booty all season so I'm betting on a Dany/Dario sex scene. Really there's not that much for her to do at this point, they can hardly show her capturing yet another slave city.

 

5. Bran

He's going to meet the talking raven. I quite liked Bran this season, or rather I liked that they put him out of the way really neatly and did not waste time with rabbit skinning conversations and other BS. Hopefully he'll be getting to the tree and meet the raven and explain what is going on there.

 

6. Stannis

Do we really have to see this guy again? Sigh.

IDK probably still in Bravos. I bet the little girl will get burnt. King's blood + 'The Lord has need of her' -> you can't get more obvious than that. Though it might be next season.

 

That's a lot. I wonder how they will fit it into 1 episode!

 

I don't expect:

 

Sansa - her arc pretty much wrapped up for the season

Boltons + Theon - same as above

Yara/ Papa Greyjoy - Might have a cameo like last season but are really insignificant

Gendry/Osha/Rickon/The Brotherhood/Frey/Tully/etc. - very unlikely but you never know.

 

[janjan]

I always thought it odd she did not ask A Man to kill Tywin and/or Joffrey, simply because A Man was so adept and sure of himself in never failing in his obligations to her.  At the time, I don't think Arya realized that no matter what name she put on her list,

She kind of wasted her wishes, like the sweet old couple in O. Henry's "The Monkey's Paw."

• The first went to the torturer because she didn't yet know how adept an assassin A Man was and she was seriously pissed at the torturer who almost ratted Gendry. She did look surprised when the torturer fell from great heights with his head turned around.
• The second was an emergency -- the guy who saw her with the purloined letter and was about to tell Tywin. If she weren't in a panic about that, she might have seen that killing Tywin would have the same effect.
• The third name was A Man, but just to get him to help them escape. She unnamed him so he could kill the guards. Which technically comes to more than three, but on this show, who's counting?

Bran muffins. Hee!!!

[stillshimpy]

Okay, so trying to figure out where we are in terms of the story, after another season wraps up.  

 

It was interesting that Cersei finally realized, "Hey, how exactly is my father going to make me marry Loras and provide High Garden with an heir?  I'm the Queen Mother, the Tyrells don't want this any more than I do.  I'm done begging for your love.  Zark off, Daddy."  which is something we talked about weeks ago.  That as adults, parents only really have the power we give to them in our lives.  

 

Still, the moment with Cersei felt weird and misplaced.  Seasons of being a sodden drunk and then "Woo hoo, feel the Empowerment!  Also?  I love Jaime again, which is admittedly weird, but no weirder than it has always been."  So we got that.  

 

We also rounded out a season with all of the remaining Stark children (save Rickon, as Rickon is apparently being stored as the spare heir somewhere) essentially move past whatever lessons their parents taught them.  The Arya who crouched by The Hound, impassively listening to The Hound try to goad her into a spot of mercy murder...and then robbed him was more Syrio and Jaqen's girl than Ned and Cateyn's child.  The last we saw of Sansa she was putting on a costume to join the game and giving some indication that she was going to go toe-to-toe with Littlefinger while trying to seduce him. 

 

Bran's weird meeting with Root Dude and the Children of the Forest had a slight hiccup in that, out of almost nowhere, Bran reveals that he thinks Root Dude will make him walk again.  Something I sort of didn't believe was his mission, or foremost in his thoughts at that time.  This was the kid who truly seemed to want to go hide in the South, under Jon Snow's protection (and said almost as much), but indicated that he HAD to do North for the good of everyone.  I didn't think that Bran, who is supposed to have an other-worldly connection thought that was about walking.  I think that was just a bit of clunky dialogue to make the "You're going to fly" line possible. 

 

Tyrion's escape with Varys sets up yet another "Oh good, road buddy comedy?" moment.  

 

It was a good season, but it was Dany who seemed to achieve the most forward story motion.  Stannis actually finished off this season doing what he said he was going to last season, so whereas that was a super cool shot (far superior to the Battle at the Wall) it was also a bit "Yes, okay, good to see the show didn't forget what was said in last season's finale." 

 

Which ...okay, GoT is starting to have a small problem for me, in that there's almost always something seemingly BIG in a finale and then at the start of the next season...it's like it never occurred in the story.  Whether it's back from Milk-Carton-Crew-Duty Alliser Thorne riding off with a Zombie hand.  Last season ending with the Davos saving realization that Stannis had to haul balls to the Wall or Arya and her magic coin deploying for Badassery in Bravos.  Or Sam seeing the White Walker army on the move, or Aemon Spam Ravening the Kingdom with news no one reacted to; there's almost always something that is seemingly launched in a finale and then never really sees fruition. 

[90PercentGravity]

Tyrion needs a new Podrick and Gendry's still floating about somewhere, presumably.... Maybe? Maybe? Think of how indignant Varys would be to discover Gendry was fellated by magical leeches.

[DirewolfPup]

The Arya who crouched by The Hound, impassively listening to The Hound try to goad her into a spot of mercy murder...and then robbed him was more Syrio and Jaqen's girl than Ned and Cateyn's child. 

 

Bran's weird meeting with Root Dude and the Children of the Forest had a slight hiccup in that, out of almost nowhere, Bran reveals that he thinks Root Dude will make him walk again.  Something I sort of didn't believe was his mission, or foremost in his thoughts at that time.  This was the kid who truly seemed to want to go hide in the South, under Jon Snow's protection (and said almost as much), but indicated that he HAD to do North for the good of everyone.  I didn't think that Bran, who is supposed to have an other-worldly connection thought that was about walking.  I think that was just a bit of clunky dialogue to make the "You're going to fly" line possible. 

 

Stannis actually finished off this season doing what he said he was going to last season, so whereas that was a super cool shot (far superior to the Battle at the Wall) it was also a bit "Yes, okay, good to see the show didn't forget what was said in last season's finale." 

 

I would argue that Syrio and J'aqen would have mercy-killed the Hound. I don't know why they wouldn't. I don't know why Arya wouldn't. That whole bit really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Bran is still a child. Every child wants to be normal, even magically powered ones. Plus, he almost died a few minutes prior because he can't dodge or fight evil, reincarnated skeletons. I'd want to walk after that, too.

 

I'm going to have to disagree here. The battle on the wall was really, really well done. Stannis showing up was more shocking plot-wise, but it wasn't shot better than the battle in my eyes. The stampeding horse shot from above had a CGI quality to it that made it look very fake. They were too perfectly aligned and mirrored. It kind of reminded me of those old arcade games where you are little spaceship that shoots laser bullets at the alien monsters (Space Invaders). Plus, the battle on the wall shot that was a 360 degree view of everyone fighting, all done in one take was freaking amazing. My inner cinema nerd was drooling. (the giant shooting the arrows as thick as skulls, sythe!!, mammoths!)

[RadiantAerynSun]

I think Arya's reaction was actually based on the lessons the Hound taught her himself.

1) it is merciful to kill someone who is obviously, painfully dying. Arya then DIDN'T do this for the Hound, who she felt didn't deserve such mercy.

2) It is allright to rob someone if they are going to be "dead by winter" anyway. So Arya took his money.

It seemed right to me, probably more right than a mercy killing would have (altho I think that what we were supposed to expect) I was just surprised he didn't die due to a festering wound as that seemed to be the direction the show was hinting at! I was so terrified during the fight with Brienne as most of the time I couldn't tell who was "winning"!

[Anothermi]

Bran is still a child. Every child wants to be normal, even magically powered ones. Plus, he almost died a few minutes prior because he can't dodge or fight evil, reincarnated skeletons. I'd want to walk after that, too. - DirewolfPup

Yeah. I agree with this point. It seemed a natural reaction to me.

 

Re: the CGI skeletons... They did feel a bit cliche-zombie-ish.  But that's partly because I was forgetting that, in THIS story, those aren't run of the mill freaky/scary zombies... those were Zombonies!  The part I forgot about was that in THIS story the dead only come to life at the behest of the WhiteWalkers (or so we have been led to believe).  So that means that the "brains" behind the WhiteWalkers must have been aware of the Bran Muffins journey all along.  And when they got to the very gates of <whatever that place was> the zombonies were deployed to try to prevent them entering.  At least that I what I hope was going on because otherwise it was just a bit too horror-story-trope for me. 

 

My spitball is that Old Root Guy and the Children of the Forest are being set up in opposition to the WW Lord and Kraster's Kids in some ancient rift in the force - of Nature(?) in this case.  (go away Luke).  I'll forget I even thought this by the start of next season. >.<

[gingerella]

My spitball is that Old Root Guy and the Children of the Forest are being set up in opposition to the WW Lord and Kraster's Kids in some ancient rift in the force - of Nature

anothermi, I like this idea very much!  I hadn't thought of this until I read your post. It sets up a lovely juxtaposition for Good Magic vs. Evil Magic. Clearly we've seen since SO1, how the Weirwood trees have that magical glow about them, but we didn't know why. Now we see that the magical beings that are going to help Bran - and more than likely school him further on his gifts - appear to be good magic, and they know how to vanquish bad magic (the zomBONEys, sorry, I had to...). 

 

Meanwhile, Jon Snow is aligning with Stannis Baratheon, the only true living blood heir to the Iron Throne. Jon is aligning with what we hope are the good guys*, for a change!  Perhaps Mance and Co. will also see fit to align with Stannis because, well, they have no other choice do they?  Live North of the Wall and perish at the bony hands of the WWs, or come South of the Wall, and learn to play by the rules on that side of the fence.

 

*Yes, I know, I know, it's hard to really say Stannis is one of the good guys when he allows his own brother to burn alive at a beach blanket BBQ, but either Mel will be taken out by him because she's pushed him too far, OR, Mel actually does know what's what and reorients her crazy burning ways at some point.  I mean, we have to take her seriously to some extent since wasn't it her who said that Stannis has to take his army North first because that is where the "real battle" lies right now?  And of course we know she's right in that...probably the only person around who took that North stuff seriously enough to actually do something about it.

 

In other breaking news, Arya has sailed for Braavos, finally! hurray!, and will become a true Braavosi fighter we hope, and since we have seen a certain level of honor amongst the Braavosi we've known thus far - Syrios and Jaqen - A Man always keeps His Word sort of stuff, I hope that Arya will learn the rules of being honorable in Braavos and also pick up the mantle of doing right by the greater good...eventually...she's young, she's got time to learn.

 

Sansa?  I just don't know what the hell is going on with her. I fear for her, and I also wonder if some of the spec here could be true, that she falls for the man she perceives as having saved her from evil, and she decides to learn from him how to seek revenge on those who've wronged her.  Though at this point, Joffs is already offed, and Tyrion only treated her kindly and protected her, Tywin's dead on the crapper, so who else would she want revenge on?

 

ETA: What I was trying to say above but forgot to summarize, was that I would love to see the remaining Stark kids align with the good guys in all their respective story lines, coming together at some point in the future to save everyone. How satisfying it would be, to me at least, to know that even though Ned's beheading was the beginning of a horrible chain of events that seemed to go from bad to worse - for both his family and the 7K in general - and that his children ended up being the ones who save the day in the end?  That would make all this shit we've slogged through worthwhile, at least to me.

Edited June 16, 2014 by gingerella

[stillshimpy]

Plus, he almost died a few minutes prior because he can't dodge or fight evil, reincarnated skeletons. I'd want to walk after that, too.

 

Direwolfpup, I take no issue with Bran wanting to walk again, of course that's normal.  I just didn't buy that was why he thought he was called to Root Dude, which was what the scene seemed to present.  "I knew it! You're going to make me walk again!"  

 

I had had the feeling, and clearly I was just wrong, that Bran actually knew more about why he was going North.  

Edited June 16, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Anothermi]

In other breaking news, Arya has sailed for Braavos, finally! hurray!, and will become a true Braavosi fighter we hope, and since we have seen a certain level of honor amongst the Braavosi we've known thus far - Syrios and Jaqen - A Man always keeps His Word sort of stuff, I hope that Arya will learn the rules of being honorable in Braavos and also pick up the mantle of doing right by the greater good...eventually...she's young, she's got time to learn. - Gingerella

 

Well, she's got a few choices in Braavos I reckon.  She could study to become a high ranking Financial Wheeler-Dealer.  She acquired the heartlessness required already. ;-P

[90PercentGravity]

Maybe Bran's fate is to become the new Old Root Guy and he won't be too please about spending the next millennium in the bowels of a werewood.

Edited June 16, 2014 by 90PercentGravity

[stillshimpy]

Well, she's got a few choices in Braavos I reckon.  She could study to become a high ranking Financial Wheeler-Dealer.  She acquired the heartlessness required already. ;-P -Anothermi

 

Yeah, Arya could have gone to Braavos to get her CPA -- Certified Petite Assassin or perhaps her MBA -- Murderous Bairns Association , but I somehow doubt she'll be distracted for too long from her task.  (*groan* those were terrible, but it had to be done) 

 

Bet she'll be bummed to find out that both Joffrey and Tywin died without aid of her blade. 

Edited June 16, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

Yeah, Arya could have gone to Braavos to get her CPA -- Certified Petite Assassin -- stillshimpy

 

Hee!  May it be known.  

 

I didn't think that Bran, who is supposed to have an other-worldly connection thought that was about walking.  I think that was just a bit of clunky dialogue to make the "You're going to fly" line possible. -- stillshimpy

 

Didn't occur to me, and I think you're dead right.  The Weirwizard set it up by saying, "You will find what you have lost," and I thought at once of Bran's lost family.  I then liked that Bran surprised me by saying, "I'll walk?"  Let the boy still be human for a moment!  And I was moved and intrigued by, "You will fly."  But your take makes the most sense: they dropped the "foreshadowing" scrim, and while effective, it landed with an audible "clunk." 

[WhiteStumbler]

Maybe Bran's fate is to become the new Old Root Guy and he won't be too please about spending the next millennium in the bowels of a werewood.

Ugh, that is disturbing! The whole scene in the Root Cellar was disturbing to me -- the sort of labyrinth of roots they had to negotiate to get to Old Root Guy, the fact that he seemed encased / a part of the tree somehow (I was thinking about the humans in Aliens encased in alien spooge to be hosts for the chest-busters), and the hundreds of (apparently) human remains littering the floor in front of him.

 

As for "flying"? Note to Bran -- avoid The Eyrie.

[ChocButterfly]

Hey, finally some of my speculations came true!! I said Jaimie would be the one to help Tyrion escape and that they'd both leave to Esteros. Also that they should take out Twyin on the way out.

 

Ok, so it wasn't entirely accurate, and I had made the prediction for episode 9, but still!

 

The skeleton things, are they also part of the WW zombie army? Because they look different to me, specially since they seem to have been dead for way too long.

Have we ever heard anything else about the Reeds' parents? I ask because they were supposed to be noble, but I have no idea how. They look like beggars to me. Plus, if they are noble, how is it that they know so much about living in the wild, and hunting and such? Plus, if they are noble, why hasn't anybody asked about them?  Don't they have a family that cares? A castle to tend? Something?

[WhiteStumbler]

The skeleton things, are they also part of the WW zombie army? Because they look different to me, specially since they seem to have been dead for way too long.

They didn't have glowing blue eyes, did they? Actually, I don't remember eyeballs at all. I thought it was a bit hokey (too much Pirates of the Carribean), but, fine, there had to be a Final Challenge -- a Big Bad has to be defeated before the Bran Muffins (minus 1) level-up.

 

Have we ever heard anything else about the Reeds' parents? I ask because they were supposed to be noble, but I have no idea how. They look like beggars to me. Plus, if they are noble, how is it that they know so much about living in the wild, and hunting and such? Plus, if they are noble, why hasn't anybody asked about them?  Don't they have a family that cares? A castle to tend? Something?

 

All I recall is this...

Jojen: (speaking of Ned's execution) When I told my father about your father for the first time in my life, I saw him cry.

Bran: Your father is Howland Reed?

J: Yeah.

B: He saved my father's life during the rebellion.

J: Your father told you about the rebellion? Mine never did.

S3E2: Dark Wings Dark Words

[DirewolfPup]

List of those Brave Men and Women we Lost this Season*

Polliver

The Tickler

Stannis' Brother-in-Law [Lord Axell Florent]

Joffrey Baratheon

Sir Dontos

Locke

Karl

Rast

Lysa Arryn/Baelish

Oberyn Martell

Pyp

Grenn

Unnamed Thenn Leader

Mag the Mighty [giant]

Ygritte

Jojen Reed

Shae the Funny Whore

Tywin Lannister

 

*most names taken from the Unsullied Character list, since my brain doesn't remember this kind of thing

[90PercentGravity]

I'd say that the Wizard in a Box is probably on there somewhere, even though we didn't see it. Or, at least, he'll be rotting by the time next season starts. Since, either Varys killed him sometime during the season or just left him alone in a box in his room. Also, naggy foul-mouthed whore from the place where whats-her-face was. Theon Greyjoy, when you think about it.

 

I'm still not convinced that Jaime wasn't setting Tyrion up. If Varys was waiting for Tyrion on the other side of the door Jaime pointed to, why would he have opened the door and immediately said "what have you done"? He would have been expecting Tyrion, and it is not as if Tyrion was covered in blood. I think Cersai was waiting on the other side of that door and Tyrion figure it out. I think he went directly to Varys's room and Varys was not expecting to see him at all.

[abelard]

I'm super super glad that Tyrion didn't die, and even gladder that Jaime helped him. (I had totally written Jaime off when he hooked up with Cersei - I actually said aloud, "Jaime is irredeemable!" - but then he saved Tyrion, so okay then, maybe the Redemption Train is still running down those tracks.  Or maybe Jaime will always be half a dozen of yuck and six of yay.)  BUT, Tyrion and Varys are both gone, and won't someone be blamed for that?!  I mean, it will be obvious that Varys helped Tyrion but why wouldn't all eyes look to Jaime, too?  Isn't it well-known that Jaime loves his brother, and isn't it clear that Jaime had the most motive to help him get out of KL? 

 

I guess Jaime could escape any ramifications if Cersei is in charge of the whole shebang.  She could just say, Obvs, it was Lord Varys, and that's the end of that.

 

Are Varys and Tyrion off to Essos, do you think?  (Is that where Varys is from?)

 

I'm still not convinced that Jaime wasn't setting Tyrion up. If Varys was waiting for Tyrion on the other side of the door Jaime pointed to, why would he have opened the door and immediately said "what have you done"? He would have been expecting Tyrion, and it is not as if Tyrion was covered in blood. I think Cersai was waiting on the other side of that door and Tyrion figure it out.

 

I'm pretty sure that Jaime told Tyrion to go straight for the Varys door, but that's not what Tyrion did.  Tyrion opted to head for Tywin's chambers and found Shae, then Tywin, then went for the Varys door.  Varys expected Tyrion sooner than Tyrion came, and that's why Varys was all like, What have you done in the last 10 minutes while I've been waiting here for you?

Edited June 16, 2014 by abelard

[gingerella]

Quote

I'm still not convinced that Jaime wasn't setting Tyrion up. If Varys was waiting for Tyrion on the other side of the door Jaime pointed to, why would he have opened the door and immediately said "what have you done"? He would have been expecting Tyrion, and it is not as if Tyrion was covered in blood. I think Cersai was waiting on the other side of that door and Tyrion figure it out.

I'm pretty sure that Jaime told Tyrion to go straight for the Varys door, but that's not what Tyrion did.  Tyrion opted to head for Tywin's chambers and found Shae, then Tywin, then went for the Varys door.  Varys expected Tyrion sooner than Tyrion came, and that's why Varys was all like, What have you done in the last 10 minutes while I've been waiting here for you?

Yeah, I'm with abelard on this 90, that's what happened. No question about it.  There is no way Jamie would try to harm Tyrion, he was the one who tried to help him by telling him to keep his mouth shut at the trial and they'd find him guilty and send him to The Wall. He has always shown genuine love and affection for his little brother, even when his shrew of a sister was shit-talking Tyrion to Jamie, expecting Jamie to agree with her. He always sided with, and stood up for Tyrion. To Cersei, to his father, to pretty much everyone. I think Varys expected Tyrion to hightail it to his door ASAP, and it had to take more than 10 minutes to kill Shae, then regain his presence of mind to realize that he still had unfinished business with Daddy-dearest, and take care of that situation. I think that had to be a much longer delay than Varys expected, so when Tyrion finally showed up looking a bit crazy in the eyes after killing Shae and Tywin, Varys was like "holy shit, what just happened?!" That's why when Varys heard the bells tolling, he knew what Tyrion had done - maybe  not exactly whom he'd killed, but that killing had been done, and he realized that more chaos was about to ensue and it was time to cut his losses and sail away too.

[WhiteStumbler]

So after the Great Power Drain at the end of Season 4, who is going to be Hand of the King to King Tommen? Cersei said to Jaime once 'you should be Hand of the King' and Jaime responded 'nah, their days are too long and their lives are too short'. Plus he is Kingsguard, which might complicate it.

 

No one on the Small Council seems to fit (poss. exception of Mace Tyrell), and there are few characters left in KL who might be a good fit for the job.

 

There is the Lannister we met at the War Council (before the battle where Tyrion was knocked out leading his Hill Tribes to battle) -- I think he is Tywin's brother?

 

Any other possible Hands?

[ChocButterfly]

Hmmm, that's a very good question, WhiteStumbler. One thing is for sure, with Cersei at the wheel, Westeros is f*cked. We all know she's an incompetent. She'll get for a Hand someone who is just a puppet, could be Jaimie, if she can convince him. Mace Tyrell could also be bossed around. Or yeah, maybe just a random Lannister from the infinite list.

 

I am so sad for Varys, after all he had accomplish, he had to leave it behind to save Tyrion. :(

[stillshimpy]

There is the Lannister we met at the War Council (before the battle where Tyrion was knocked out leading his Hill Tribes to battle) -- I think he is Tywin's brother?

Any other possible Hands?

 

It seems as if a Tyrell would be a good idea.  Cersei will once again have influence over the King and she's almost certainly going to insist that he not marry Margaery, which has almost become a running joke within the show, Margaery and her forever thwarted attempts to be The Queen.  However they are still going to need the Tyrell's money, which is something that Cersei isn't going to be able to get around.  

 

Frankly, Tommen's rule is so obviously doomed at this juncture, I wish the poor kid would grab his cat and go visit his sister in Dorne for a while. 

 

I am so sad for Varys, after all he had accomplish, he had to leave it behind to save Tyrion. :(

 

I don't think he had to leave because Tyrion had killed Tywin Lannister, or at least not precisely because of that.  Remember in Braavos, Davos talking about how everyone knew that Tywin Lannister was the power behind the Throne?  I think Varys must have been pretty aware of that aspect also.  I wouldn't be too surprised if Varys tries to seek out Dany, same thing with Tyrion.  

 

I think that Varys simply understood that if Tywin was dead, then King's Landing was a lost cause, as much as anything else. 

[WhiteStumbler]

I am so sad for Varys, after all he had accomplish, he had to leave it behind to save Tyrion. :(

I was wondering if that was part of Varys' original plan, or if that was an improv after the bells started ringing in KL? I'll have to re-watch, but it seemed Varys was walking away from the ship (with Imp-In-A-Box already on-board), he heard the bells, then turned and walked back to the end of the dock. The next shot is of Varys sitting next to IIAB.

 

Maybe Varys realized that he could have brazened Tyrion's escape out if Tywin was alive (Tywin is pragmatic, and thought the dismissal of Barristan was stupid), but once Tywin was dead, he knew Cersei wouldn't be as... predictable?

 

Sad for Varys, but AMPED for those two on a road trip together! I know Varys had a soft spot for their "mutual friend" Shae, but I hope Varys won't hold her death against Tyrion - Tyrion was acting in self-defense. Shae went for the knife first!

[90PercentGravity]

It totally just hit me that Tyrion killed BOTH of his parents. And he killed Tywin right after Jaime (rightfully) defended him for killing their mother.

[WhiteStumbler]

In the spirit of DirewolfPup...

List of those Folks We First Met this Season:

 

Oberyn Martell

Ellaria Sand

Thenn leader

Thenn warg

Mace Tyrell

Walda Bolton (formerly Frey)

Pious Farmer and Sally his daughter

Moles Town close-talking whore

The Champion of Mereen

Hizdahr zo Loraq

Ser Pounce

Craster's Last Son

Crowned White Walker

Braavos Bank officials

Dying Farmer #418 (whom The Hound mercy kills)

Giant #1

Mag the Giant

[abelard]

I was wondering if that was part of Varys' original plan, or if that was an improv after the bells started ringing in KL? I'll have to re-watch, but it seemed Varys was walking away from the ship (with Imp-In-A-Box already on-board), he heard the bells, then turned and walked back to the end of the dock. The next shot is of Varys sitting next to IIAB.

 

Imp-in-a-Box!!! Awesome!!!

 

Yes, I agree that Varys was walking away from the ship, then the bells toll, and Varys thinks, "The bells toll for we," and then hightailed it back to the ship before the Ludicrous Reign of Cersei begins.

 

I really wanted Cersei to be the Lannister that bit it this season (post-Offed Joff, of course), but now I am sort of psyched for her to make a huge mess of things.  With Cersei at the reins, and especially after she tosses Margery out on her pretty kiester, maybe Stannis can take however long he wants setting up the Wall for success (I don't even know what that would look like, the NW have been so downtrodden-seeming for so long) and then mosey on down to KL on his own time.  Seems like Stannis is set up to take the throne next season, to me.

 

insist that he not marry Margaery, which has almost become a running joke within the show, Margaery and her forever thwarted attempts to be The Queen.

 

This reminds me that I think it's almost a certainty on this show that when people make vows, they hardly ever get to keep them.  Cat to Robb: "First we will free the girls.  Then we will kill them all."  See also: Yara vowing to get Theon back, Brienne vowing to get the girls to safety, Arya vowing to kill Joffrey and Tywin, etc.  Margery vowing to be The queen (well maybe that wasn't a vow so much as a wish).

 

Cersei won't be as pragmatic as Tywin and she will break the alliance with the Tyrells without a thought for their money.  That will be one of her Big Mistakes.  The Iron Bank will desert the Lannisters once they get wind of Tywin's death and Stannis's deeds at the Wall.  That Bank will back Stannis 100% now I think.  And Cersei will preside over a crumbling and tentative hold on the Throne and the 7K, for a time.

[WhiteStumbler]

This reminds me that I think it's almost a certainty on this show that when people make vows, they hardly ever get to keep them.

Hmmm, maybe. Let me think about that. I promise you we'll talk when I return.

[izabella]

So Sansa stays in limbo, neither a wife nor widow.  I wonder what that will do to LF's plans for her.

[Pallas]

I'm curious about what Tyrion intended in going into the Hand's chambers.  He came in unarmed, surely assuming Tywin was alone and capable of defending himself, and surely knowing that Tywin would summon the guards to have Tyrion arrested again.  He did not seek to arm himself before he approached the bed.  I believe he nonetheless came to Tywin because more than anything, Tyrion wanted the answer to his question: Why.  The question he did put to Tywin, after warning him that he should not say the word "whore" again.  "Why" -- the same question that gave him no peace about Cousin Orson. 

 

Tyrion can only have believed that obtaining this answer would result in his imprisonment and death.  That's if Tywin decided to indulge him at all, and if Tyrion could be satisfied that Tywin spoke the truth.  I actually think that Tywin probably would have given Tyrion a credible answer, before having him removed and killed. Yet his finding Shae there changed everything.  In the end, Tyrion left without his answer.  

 

Or -- did Tyrion have his answer when Tywin affirmed that he had wanted Tyrion dead all his life?  While we viewers understood this because we were meant to, Tyrion was neither intended to grasp it, nor likely to.  Tywin could always grind out his, "You're a Lannister, after all" to scourge them both at the end of another mutually abrasive conversation, and Tyrion could hear in that what he thought he needed. Which was -- not the truth, in fact.  Not the truth, but something marginally easier for both of them to live with. Or so they thought, father and son.   

Edited June 17, 2014 by Pallas

[AlphaLine]

I'm curious about what Tyrion intended in going into the Hand's chambers.  He came in unarmed, surely assuming Tywin was alone and capable of defending himself, and surely knowing that Tywin would summon the guards to have Tyrion arrested again.  He did not seek to arm himself before he approached the bed.  I believe he nonetheless came to Tywin because more than anything, Tyrion wanted the answer to his question: Why.  The question he did put to Tywin, after warning him that he should not say the word "whore" again.  "Why" -- the same question that gave him no peace about Cousin Orson. 

 

Why did Tyrion go into the Hand's chambers in the first place? The only explanation I can think of is, that he got lost in the secret passages, and didn't know where he was, until he saw Shae. Also I've rewatched and I still don't know why he killed Tywin. Yeah Tywin despises him and wanted him to die.. but that's pretty weak.

[Pallas]

I don't believe Tyrion was lost.  Jaime's instructions were clear and easy -- top of the stairs, knock at the door -- and more, Tyrion seems to have been imprisoned in the Tower of the Hand.  He would know where he is.  This is where he felt most alive, most essential, most in command.  This is where he was "good at this."   This is the place he refused to give up, even for love and comfort, until Tywin took it from him.  That in itself may also be what compelled him to re-visit, at risk of what he still had left.