Spoilers & Speculation: Running Hot & Cold

[Sakura12]

Please, be rid of Vandal tonight, please be rid of Vandal tonight! 

He is so boring, the least threatening villain I've ever seen. I wish they made show about the Legends trying to stop the time traveling Pilgrim. 

[nksarmi]

Ok I'm sorry, but you know you failed a character when I'm half hoping that her brainwashed evil soulmate kills her.

[Sakura12]

Kendra and Ray deserve each other they are both idiots.

[nksarmi]

6 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Kendra and Ray deserve each other they are both idiots.

I was mad they made Ray that dumb, but there is a lot about this particular episode that feels convoluted so I'm going to chalk it up to Ray is dumb when he's in love. Hopefully from now on - they will chill with him on the love interest front.

And for the record, I'm in love with killer, pyro, and klepto.

[tarotx]

Sneak Peak. I don't ship them but I love them. I think they have tons of Chemistry. 

http://www.eonline.com/news/764482/is-captain-canary-over-before-it-happens-on-legends-of-tomorrow

[Sakura12]

I can't wait. I do ship them. Although I can ship Sara with anyone in the right circumstances.

I do love how loyal Sara is. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by Sakura12

[tarotx]

And we have Aliens now on Earth one (though not til the future)?

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/05/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-115-destiny.html

[nksarmi]

Holy shit - I hope they destroy the Time Masters altogether.

ETA: Mick is becoming a total fav!

Edited May 13, 2016 by nksarmi

[nksarmi]

First - I need spoilers stat - is Snart coming back for season two?

Second, Sara saying "A Time Master is never late" in the trailer made me squeal like a total fangirl.

[Sakura12]

Sara can call herself a Time Pilot now. 

This is from Deadline.

http://deadline.com/2016/05/legends-of-tomorrow-wentworth-miller-exits-regular-berlanti-universe-1201751213/

It looks like Wentworth is not gone for good. He can still appear on any of the DC shows I guess in flashbacks or another Earth version. 

Quote

 He will no longer be a regular on Legends but has entered a series regular contract with Legends producing studio Warner Bros. TV, with his duties spread over the different Greg Berlanti DC shows, for the time being Legends and Flash.

Miller’s Legends arc was designed to have an end from the get-go as the actor had sought and signed a short-term deal. “We always knew that he wouldn’t be a permanent member of The Waverider,” Legends of Tomorrow, Flash and Arrowco-creator/executive producer Greg Berlanti said in an interview with Deadline. “We also knew we loved him on the show and all the shows, Flash as well.”

So Berlanti and his team pitched Miller a new arrangement where he would have flexibility and recur on multiple shows simultaneously as Snart. “What it really emulates to us is the comic books themselves where there really are a cast of characters,” Berlanti said. While Miller, who also has been filming the Prison Breakfollowup, “won’t be part of the team of Legends on board of The Waverider next year, he will have a very active role on the show.”

 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Sakura12

[nksarmi]

Well they better find some kind of out that he can continue on - like the team goes back to 2014 and snags him from prison or something.

[Sakura12]

What does he'll have an active role on the show mean? Will we just be seeing different versions of him while they time travel? Or will he be a new version, Citizen Cold perhaps. I want to see Earth 2 Mayor Snart who might be marred to Earth 2 Dr. Sara Lance (my headcanon). 

With Supergirl now in the mix, we can explore even more I guess. One of the writers said in the world will get even bigger for the Legends. That made me think of other dimensions. 

[nksarmi]

I would be ok with getting a Citizen Cold version of Snart. And Mayor Snart married to Dr. Sara Lance would be all kinds of awesome. I just hope that as he is a regular across both shows - it will be more on Legends than Flash. I'm bored with Flash but I'd watch for him. That's good for Flash but not so great for me since I'm ready to be done with it lol.

I can't believe how much I've grown to like Mick though. Maybe Wentworth can be convinced to come on Legends again full-time if it goes for a season three.

Edited May 13, 2016 by nksarmi

[Starfish35]

I don't even know what to think about the Snart thing.  I mean, he may reappear but will he be the same character? The criminal who grew into a hero?  Or will he just be the old Captain Cold again?  That's not what I want to see. 

And this Thanagarian invasion thing.  Is that going to be our season two arc? Does that seriously mean another season centered around the Hawks?  Please tell me the writers are not that foolish.  I know that the Hawks are not Thanagarian in this universe, but I still can't imagine them doing a Thanagarian arc without the Hawks.

[Lokiberry]

I've been thinking that since Snart blew up along with the Oculus thingy maybe he's going to be the Dr Fate/sees all knows-all character that's going to guide the team next season; but if that's so, what's Patrick J Adams gonna do? Be the Big Bad? If Snart is Dr Fate-ish, it would explain how he was going to appear across the flarrowverse.

I admit the mention of the Thanagarians scare me because that means Hawks, and i want them gone.

[Lii]

It's almost like they're like oh, you had stuff you really liked? Well, we blew it up. Here's more Hawkpeople instead. 

Seriously, they are going to keep trying to make this Hawk thing happen, aren't they? 

[KirkB]

The Thanagarian invasion is supposed to happen in the far future. As in a hundred years past the point where Savage took over the world. It doesn't have to impact Rip or his team, since THAT isn't what they were trying to stop. That said, even if it does become the main threat for season two, I have to ask. Is the problem anyone has with the Hawks that they are winged people, or that Carter is boring, Kendra is not much better, and they are tied to Savage, who was just badly miscast? What I mean is, I don't thing winged people were the problem, the casting was. As long as they cast the right kind of actors for Thanagarians, if they go that route, it should be okay. So long as Savage and the Hawks are gone.

[tarotx]

My problem is, Will having the threat be Thanagarian mean we are stuck having Kendra and Carter? And worse does it mean another Hawk centric season?

Plus Winged people mean CGI and this show is already rumored too expensive - so what does that mean for the overall look of the season? 

[nksarmi]

I don't think we will see the Thanagarians - I think that was just a shout out to comic book fans. That is 300 years in the future from our team and as Rip said, the Time Masters are insane if they think VS was the only hope for the world. Now that the team can effect real change - anything could happen, including creating a world where they ensure a Supe is around to deal with the Hawk people someday.

I strongly suspect they are going a totally different way next season. They've said Vandal and the Time Masters are gone. This beloved cape is supposed to send them on a new course that will take them to different times. I don't think it will be more Hawks.

The only way I see this being tied to the Thanagarian invasion AT ALL is if next season is about the team reversing the manipulations the Time Masters did that empowered Vandal and prevented the formation of a Justice League of the future that would be able to handle the Thanagarians. I mean, how fun would next season be if it wasn't about a "big bad" per say, but if we just had a series of one or two-off episodes about making sure future Justice League members realize their destinies?

5 minutes ago, tarotx said:

My problem is, Will having the threat be Thanagarian mean we are stuck having Kendra and Carter? And worse does it mean another Hawk centric season?

Plus Winged people mean CGI and this show is already rumored too expensive - so what does that mean for the overall look of the season? 

I could be wrong, but I strongly suspect that if the Hawks live at the end of this season - killing Savage will end their cycle of reincarnation. So they will either be sapped of their powers and go off to live one last normal life together OR they will have their powers but still be on their last life and therefore they might decide not to be with the team anymore (but would be available to guest star at some point).

[Sakura12]

I would be fine with Thanagarian versions of the Hawk people, provided they are played by different actors. I would be happier if it was just an Easter Egg. 

[KirkB]

Since Kendra and Carter are ancient Egyptian here, not Thanagarians, I don't think the story lines have anything to do with one another. I agree with nksarmi, I think that was just a shout out. When the Time Masters started talking about an alien invasion only Savage could stop, in the back of my mind I just knew they were going to say it was the Thanagarians. But I don't think that has anything to do with where the show is going from here. I imagine Kendra and Carter will either die stopping Savage or leave once he's beaten. There won't be any more winged people to CGI, which possibly means Fiery Dude number one (namely Firestorm) may be able to get a bit more screen time.

[Starfish35]

I hope you all are right.  I'm feeling somewhat pessimistic at the moment. 

If we get rid of the Hawks, and they get the casting right for the new characters, things might look better.  But their track record in casting lately has not been good.  

[FurryFury]

I don't know anything about the comics, but considering Kendra and Carter's lack of popularity, it's a smart bet that even if the writers were considering featuring them in season 2, they've changed their mind since then.

I do agree about the casting. I think Rip was cast well, but other than him, meh.

Edited May 13, 2016 by FurryFury

[nksarmi]

Yea these shows taken as a whole are hit or miss with casting. I hope they get the next two really right because that will make all the difference to how successful season two is I think.

[Sakura12]

Sara's going up against Savage in what looks like the same place he got the nuke in 1975. I'm glad they stopped letting Kendra fight him, because she sucks at that. Sara can incapacitate him then Kendra's useless self can finally strike him over the head with the mace. 

So it does look like they go back to 1975 to before or after the weapons auction or aka the first time they screwed everything up. 

Edited May 13, 2016 by Sakura12

[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I know this is just a still, but Savage looks absolutely ridiculous in this shot. Why is he screaming while presumably shooting at someone? 

[Lii]

Because he only has two modes, and oddly stilted overly-staccato whispering while emphasizing unnatural words and syllables won't work in a loud fight? 

[Sakura12]

It's even more ridiculous in the Sara showdown.  Sara's probably thinking the same thing. She's laughed in the face of Ra's al Ghul, he looks even more stupid. 

Sara's face.

Savage's face

[KirkB]

What's funny to me about that first picture is the guy behind Savage looks like he's thinking "Well, the boss is having an episode again."

It makes sense Sara would go one on one with Savage. She seems to be the only one on the team with any hope of fighting on his level. Though even if she succeeds in knocking him out it won't do much good if Kendra won't do her damn job.

[Lokiberry]

My current theory is that this time around Vandal Savage killed Miranda, but not Jonas. I mean, we didn't see the body. Rip won't be able to change the events anymore for timey-wimey reasons. He'll leave Jonas at the refuge with Time Mommy so he can keep traveling with the Legends because of whatever new threat turns up.

This will give him a partial win, but also provide a reason why they can't save Laurel.

[Lii]

I seriously don't want a new character already, give me a minute to grieve or something, Show! 

[squidprincess]

If Jonas isn't dead, I'm calling him returning as a suddenly adult villain to annoy/harass the team.  Mostly because I don't believe this show would pass up any chance to have Arthur Darvill look pained and teary-eyed.

[FurryFury]

Oh no, please no evil kid from the future. I've seen for than enough of this trope, and it's never ever done well.

[tarotx]

[Sakura12]

Sara's not messing around. "Choose your words carefully" 

She lost her BFF and her sister, she's not going be taking any of Rip's shit. I wonder what his excuse will be why they can risk their lives and lose a team member to save his family but they can't do that for anyone else. Stopping Darhk is something that needs to be done as well. 

Their excuse as to why Sara's not going after Darhk is going to be interesting. Did they drop the fact that Thea can take Darhk's life force like he does to others? If not than Sara should be able to do that too. But she can't because that's Arrow's storyline and CL appears not have filmed any scenes for the Arrow finale. 

[squidprincess]

Rip's reason will undoubtedly be bullcrap because he can't say the real reason which is that one show isn't really allowed to mess with another show's plot.  That's the problem with these kind of crossover shows (see also Torchwood and Doctor Who.)  Then one character is stuck getting perfectly justified in-character negativity but for an out-of-character reason.

Edited May 17, 2016 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

I'm kind of curious about where this episode fits into the Arrow timeline, actually.  Arrow's last three episodes are all over one day or two, aren't they?  And that peaceful scene with Sara and her father at Laurel's grave doesn't seem to show any signs of the chaos going down on Arrow right now.  So I'm wondering if maybe Sara drops in sometime either before or after Arrow 4.21-4.23, even if that doesn't fit the airing dates.  If it's after, well then Darhk's already dealt with.  If it's before, than maybe they get their new marching orders from this new mysterious character and fly away before the crisis hits.  I just can't imagine Sara or Ray or any of the team, really, leaving Team Arrow to fend for itself against a worldwide crisis.  So really they have to either visit before or after Arrow's last three episodes.  At least it seems that way.

[Sakura12]

It could also be right after Laurel's funeral. Since we now know that Sara visited Nyssa when she was imprisoned by Malcolm. Which explained why Nyssa wasn't asking or concerned about Sara during her Star City visits. Then I suppose the new mission can show up taking Sara far away from Star City. Which is what happened in the 2046 storyline. Ray and Sara didn't show up to help in the big 2016 battle. 

With the hints that Season 2 is going to make the world even bigger, I'm thinking they get taken to another Planet or into Space or something. 

[tarotx]

Well it seems Rip drops the team home before they get Savage so that is why Ray isn't helping team arrow-Savage still has Kendra. I'm not sure what's going to motivate Sara to go off to fight Savage. 

[Starfish35]

That's....ok.  I thought the stop off at home would be after they defeated Savage.  But ok. *confused*

[Sakura12]

9 minutes ago, tarotx said:

Well it seems Rip drops the team home before they get Savage so that is why Ray isn't helping team arrow-Savage still has Kendra. I'm not sure what's going to motivate Sara to go off to fight Savage. 

She's not Barry Allen. Sara doesn't just give up. They've shown on this show how loyal Sara is, she's in it until the end. She could be doing it for Leonard as well. He died so they could fight Savage without the Time Masters ruining everything. 

[squidprincess]

It's interesting that Sara seems a lot less angry/resentful than I'd expect in the promo when she's all "A Time Master is never late."  Promos often lie of course, but I wonder if that means that Rip actually does have an explanation that Sara could accept.

[nksarmi]

The promo for the last episode looks so freaking good. I mean, I'm all jumping up and down inside for this next episode where Arrow just dropped a nuke on a city and I don't really care and Flash has to face off against a super speedster who happens to also be a crazy serial killer and yea - still don't care. But Legends - we only have to kill Savage three more times leaves me all weeeeeee!!!!!!! :)

[Sakura12]

Wishes for tomorrows finale. Savage is killed for good, the Hawks fly off into the sunset, Sara becomes the Pilot of the Waverider (Rip can still be the Captain), the team is Rip, Sara, Mick, Jax and Stein and the new character sends them on a new mission where they pick up various heroes from different time periods and maybe go to a different planet. 

[Starfish35]

Works for me.  What about Ray?

[Sakura12]

Haha, I forgot about him. He can stay too as long as he stops screwing up all the time. 

[KirkB]

Question. If the Hawks just fly away, doesn't that mean they can just fly back? I'm not saying I WANT them to die, necessarily, but so long as they are flying around they could get sucked back into the Waverider's orbit. Heh. Even as I typed that I imagined them getting sucked into the Waverider's engine, and that may keep me laughing until tomorrow. So maybe I DO kind of want them dead, but not as much as Savage.

With the Snart and the Hawks gone, one way or another, I kind of hope they don't introduce any new main characters, at least for a while. The cast was big enough they didn't always have stuff for everyone to do. If they immediately bring it new people it will detract from the ones we already have. I'm curious to see what Rip's new purpose will be once Savage is gone and he has (presumably) given up on saving his family. How does Sara deal with losing her sister and why does she continue traveling through time? How does Mick get along without Snart? Does Firestorm actually become useful? (Sorry, in case I haven't mentioned it I'm not too impressed with this version of the character). I'm even curious to see how Ray deals with losing Kendra.The cast has just about jelled, I don't want a bunch of new people messing that up yet, but maybe that's just me.

[Starfish35]

It does make me wonder how fast they're going to introduce the two new characters.  At least one of them, the presumed Lady Blackhawk, needs to be picked up from another time.  

Edited May 18, 2016 by Starfish35

[Sakura12]

I'd only like for another female to join the team. I don't necessarily need all the new characters to permanently join, I'd be fine with working with them in their episode like Jonah Hex. Then Team Legends leaves.

[Starfish35]

I'm just going off the casting call info, which was for series regulars.