Sarah's Sober Second Thought Series: Here Be Dragons

[Primetimer]

The Buffy Rewatch takes on the good ideas, bad executions (as it were) of Season 6.

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[Erratic]

Hank isn't around because he doesn't know that Buffy is dead. Which, in itself is a HUGE deal that we sweep under the carpet to avoid more shadow being cast in Willow's general direction. I mean, he's a crappy dad, but shit, he deserves to know when his daughter leaps to her death, right? Or to make decisions for his remaining (now firmly real) daughter?

The Trio need to be viewed from a comic book stance to allow enjoy my of their storyline. Obviously Lex Luthir was smart enough to make billions of money without tormenting Metropolis in a regular basis, right?

But I agree 100% with you regarding Willow's progression. She went from wonky soups in Season Four to raising the dead in Season Six, and even Tara is surprised, so why the hell wouldn't we be too?

Edited February 26, 2015 by Erratic

[ferretrick]

The whole thing with the house...why does no one suggest the OBVIOUS solution of selling it and Buffy/Dawn moving to a small apartment. Buffy is, effectively, a 20 year old single mom now. Most 20 year old single moms do not own homes. They rent, because owning a house is expensive as hell. If they sold, they'd have whatever equity Joyce had in the house to live on for a while. You can fanwank that Joyce was underwater on the mortgage and they CAN'T sell (which is even more believable now than it would have been then), but why doesn't any of the gang at least make the suggestion? Or why does Buffy not get a lawyer and go after Hank for Dawn support? It's just not thought out at all and told rather than shown.

[Reishe]

Joyce had a life-insurance policy, but not medical insurance that would cover her hospital stay?

 

Health insurance doesn't always cover everything, particularly for treatment like Joyce's which no doubt required numerous expensive scans and a prolonged hospital stay; I bet they also charged extra for the rare brain specialist who would perform brain surgery without shaving her head and cutting open her skull). And (fan-wanking, here) given that Joyce is an independent gallery-owner, who knows how good her health insurance coverage was.

What made me crazy about the money issue was that Willow and Tara had been living in Buffy's--well, Dawn's--house and apparently not making mortgage payments or spending a penny on maintenance. And if the house was so darned expensive to keep up, why hadn't they sold the house entirely and downsized to something the girls could afford, instead of suddenly realizing their finances were untenable once B showed up again? Or they could have stayed at the dorm and Dawn could have lived with Giles for her remaining high school years... it was all just so very contrived. And the look on everyone's faces when they told B that she was broke, it was just so... "not my problem."

[Kel Varnsen]

What made me crazy about the money issue was that Willow and Tara had been living in Buffy's--well, Dawn's--house and apparently not making mortgage payments or spending a penny on maintenance. And if the house was so darned expensive to keep up, why hadn't they sold the house entirely and downsized to something the girls could afford, instead of suddenly realizing their finances were untenable once B showed up again? Or they could have stayed at the dorm and Dawn could have lived with Giles for her remaining high school years... it was all just so very contrived. And the look on everyone's faces when they told B that she was broke, it was just so... "not my problem."

The whole thing with money on this show was always so stupid. If Willow and Tara didn't want to sell the house, why not get jobs? I mean who was paying for food and Dawn's clothes? For that matter if Willow can raise the dead, and erase people's memories, why not conjure up some gold or something?

 

Even when Buffy came back the money thing was stupid. She dropped out of school. So if you don't want to get a job/sell your house or whatever (and I think Sarah has mentioned this before) tell the watchers that you want a monthly paycheque, complete with some fake pay stubs that says she is an admin assistant or something. It would be pretty simple to me, if they don't want to pay then I am sure Inside Edition or the Enquirer or someone else would love to pay for her story.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Kel Varnsen

[Erratic]

I don't know why the presumption is made that Tara and Willow didn't pay a penny.

Buffy's been dead for, what, 4 months? The house isn't in foreclosure, and never gets there, even with Buffy only working as a part-time fast food server*, so I think it is safe to presume that they helped out with rent and groceries, but Tara is an orphaned student, and we never figure out Willow's family support, so who knows how much money any of them had. Certainly not enough to run a big Californian home.

They couldn't remortgage because of the crappy housing market in Sunnydale so I presume that also damaged the chance of sale too.

*Yes, Giles gave Buffy a cheque, but it would seem that that would go towards the full copper repipe in the flooded basement and towards the amazing and obviously expensive home insurance policy that protected the house in Season Seven's weekly devastation and damage.

The whole thing with money on this show was always so stupid.

Agreed. Edited February 26, 2015 by Erratic

[AndySmith]

I'm guessing Joyce financed her house at the same bank Jim and Cindy Walsh did.

The Three were some of the most loathsome characters I have ever watched, on this or any other show.

Spike and Buffy hooking up made me go 'ick' then, and time has not been kinder to any of that. I do appreciate them somewhat growing closer together as a result of her dying and coming back, but Buffy at most should have just fcuked the crap out of him once, at most, and gotten it out of her system.

And what is this "magic" you speak of? We all know real witches only use "magics" (or however its spelled).

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Yeah, I won't be trifling with that "dangeroufe magicks" foolishness.

[Marianne]

Regarding expenses: Why would Buffy be responsible for her mother's medical bills? A child, minor or adult, generally is not liable for support of a parent. Now I do think the medical bills might be a debt of Joyce's estate and the house would be an asset from which that debt would have to be paid. ?? That's all I got.

Oh, and the whole money thing bugged me. Why didn't Buffy at least get a job as a cocktail waitress. Those tips had to be lots better than minimum wage at Doublemeat Palace. Same goes for the useless moochers.

[Kel Varnsen]

Oh, and the whole money thing bugged me. Why didn't Buffy at least get a job as a cocktail waitress. Those tips had to be lots better than minimum wage at Doublemeat Palace. Same goes for the useless moochers.

That is a good point. If she didn't want to work at a bar, at least a sitdown restaurant where she could make tips. In the real world it would make sense because 24 year old Sarah Michelle Gellar was probably hotter than most waitresses I have ever seen. Although I guess by TV standards that is probably not the case.

[AndySmith]

But if Buffy didn't get a job there, then we wouldn't have gotten the classic "Doublemeat Palace" episode!

[EricJ]

I've always headcannoned that the Dawn insertion spell included a strong compulsion in Hank to stay away from Sunnydale and his family as a shortcut, because they couldn't make his memories as strong or detailed. It's the only way I've ever been able to make sense of him completely abandoning Dawn and Buffy when Joyce died.

[kalamac]

I never understood why, especially when Buffy got Giles reinstated as Watcher, with backpay, she didn't tell the Council "As long as you're paying a bunch of Watchers to do research, you can also pay me, the one who does the actual dangerous work." You'd think they would already have a monetary trust in place, given that nature of their calling would mean any Slayer who survives into adulthood is bound to have trouble finding and keeping a paying job.

It bugged me then, and it bugs me now.

[Kel Varnsen]

" You'd think they would already have a monetary trust in place, given that nature of their calling would mean any Slayer who survives into adulthood is bound to have trouble finding and keeping a paying job.

I am not sure it was every actually stated but was that kind of the thing though? Wasn't it kind of hinted that Buffy was a very exceptional slayer, to the point where they typically didn't live into adulthood but she did, so I could kind of see why there wouldn't be some kind of system in place to cover living expenses. Not that it isn't any less stupid that they couldn't figure it out. Then again it was one of many things about the show where if you ask too many questions the whole premise falls apart (like why is no one using super soakers filled with holy water?).

[Jamoche]

"Lord knows the Three have already worn out their group welcome, and I don't remember what I thought about them in the early aughts."

Ew, the magickal script kiddies. I'd completely blanked them out of my memory until one of the players in our multifandom rpg thought they'd be "fun", and didn't tell anyone that they a) weren't original characters and b) were complete asshats who would intentionally ruin any plot they were in. Cue the bad kind of drama.

[chaifan]

While conjuring gold would lead to the problem of how to turn such gold into good ol' US currency, I would think Willow would at least be able to rig a winning lottery ticket. Nothing that would draw too much attention, but enough to pay the bills. And I totally agree that if Watchers are on TPTB payroll, the Slayer should be, too.

[Fat Elvis 007]

At the end of the day we accept the plot holes as long as the story is one we want to watch. I don't really question why the Watchers didn't kill Faith in her coma, or at least have her moved to England, because I loved Faith's redemption arc.

But Buffy's money woes just weren't fun to watch, so fans aren't as forgiving.

This is rarely pointed out, but this is a show wherein vampires frequently rise from their graves even though it is explicitly shown multiple times that they rise the same night as they are killed. So...consistency of world building was never really this show's strong suit.

[joelene]

At the end of the day we accept the plot holes as long as the story is one we want to watch..

Totally. Plot holes can be more irksome if it's a "serious" drama, but if it's a show taking place within the fantastical I don't really care if I'm enjoying the ride. Pretty Little Liars, for instance, was awesome in its first couple of seasons even when it made little sense, but once the characters become tiresome and plots drawn out so that it can last for another five seasons then you become less forgiving with plot holes. This was Buffy season 7 from Bring on the Night until Chosen for me. I don't much care about them before that (though the money woes comes close because it's completely dropped once Buffy gets a minimum wage job?!).

[Jack Shaftoe]

Plot holes become more glaring once a show starts taking itself too seriously. Or when the show itself turns our attention to certain plot holes riddled issues, like Buffy's financial situation. And even more so when a show is clearly trying to "send an important message" about some real life problems, only it does it in a very contrived and silly fashion - for instance Buffy's job at the Doublemeat. Or the laughable magic addiction storyline.

[Kel Varnsen]

I feel the same way. I am more than happy to ignore plotholes in show like this (water guns full of holy water). But if the writers dont want me to think about them, then they shouldn't do storylines that draw attention to them.

[paramitch]

It's great to feel somewhat vindicated by my massive Season 6 Buffy case of love-hate by this rewatch, so first off, kudos!

 

My main problem here is that to me it all starts terrifically -- I loved the first 2-3 of Season 6 and where it put Willow, Buffy, even Giles and Dawn, etc.  in terms of conflict and potential. I liked seeing Willow begin to abuse her power and actually thought that, at first, it was an interesting and believable direction for a character as powerless yet easily corruptible as Willow has always shown herself to be. It even dovetailed nicely with the Trio's issues, however ham-handedly.

 

But the moment Willow's stuff got swept under some addiction rug -- instead of as the far more believable by-product of her own actions and choices -- I started seeing the whole season through the red eyes of rage and basically just waited for it to be over.

 

Even when Buffy came back the money thing was stupid. She dropped out of school. So if you don't want to get a job/sell your house or whatever (and I think Sarah has mentioned this before) tell the watchers that you want a monthly paycheque, complete with some fake pay stubs that says she is an admin assistant or something. It would be pretty simple to me, if they don't want to pay then I am sure Inside Edition or the Enquirer or someone else would love to pay for her story.

 

I actually ground my teeth watching the show's ridiculousness with money. Buffy would not have been liable for her mother's bills (the same exact thing happened to me with my Mom, who had a benign brain tumor that was ultimately fatal). She had also been shown to be adept and poised at waiting tables in a real restaurant for tips as far back as the start of season THREE, so the idea that she would ever go to work at Doublemeat for minimum wage, no tips, was just laughable (and wouldn't it have been cooler and more empowering if Buffy had been teaching self-defense classes at night, for instance?). Aside from all the other stupidity with money, as others have mentioned -- if Giles was being paid, why the heck not Buffy? It all felt so bloated and self-important, like Buffy Gets Real, but none of it made any sense at all. I hated it.

 

Oh, and the whole money thing bugged me. Why didn't Buffy at least get a job as a cocktail waitress. Those tips had to be lots better than minimum wage at Doublemeat Palace. Same goes for the useless moochers.

 

Right -- I mentioned the same thing in rants on Amazon when reviewing S6. She was a restaurant waitress doing very nicely for herself in S3, and she even got tips. So how was Doublemeat ever really believable?

 

I never understood why, especially when Buffy got Giles reinstated as Watcher, with backpay, she didn't tell the Council "As long as you're paying a bunch of Watchers to do research, you can also pay me, the one who does the actual dangerous work." You'd think they would already have a monetary trust in place, given that nature of their calling would mean any Slayer who survives into adulthood is bound to have trouble finding and keeping a paying job.

It bugged me then, and it bugs me now.

You and me both. I wish it had bugged the writers.

 

Totally. Plot holes can be more irksome if it's a "serious" drama, but if it's a show taking place within the fantastical I don't really care if I'm enjoying the ride. Pretty Little Liars, for instance, was awesome in its first couple of seasons even when it made little sense, but once the characters become tiresome and plots drawn out so that it can last for another five seasons then you become less forgiving with plot holes. This was Buffy season 7 from Bring on the Night until Chosen for me.

 

I would argue with this to a degree. I do expect a degree of believability or at least internal believability from the world I'm watching. Which was why I had no problem with Cordelia as Angel's secretary on "Angel" but why I couldn't believe Buffy's Doublemeat escapades for a moment -- they were too far from believability.

 

Or when the show itself turns our attention to certain plot holes riddled issues, like Buffy's financial situation. And even more so when a show is clearly trying to "send an important message" about some real life problems, only it does it in a very contrived and silly fashion - for instance Buffy's job at the Doublemeat. Or the laughable magic addiction storyline.

 

The bummer of it was, the writers were so set on some of the stupid Doublemeat stuff and Willow's magic addiction, that they ran right past some of the truly interesting and timely potential storylines already right in front of them. The Trio (and Willow) as victims of bullying who grab for too much power in retribution; Giles feeling lost and without a place with all these 20somethings and with no high school/college to give him context; Buffy and Spike reaching out to one another only to realize that attraction does not have to equal true love, etc.

 

Even as flawed as it was, I did find a lot to enjoy in S6. I thought it started out strong, I loved the first 3-4 episodes and even later on loved the little nonsensical touches like kitten poker. But the characters just continued to do things that I couldn't get past -- Giles leaving. Jonathan actually wholeheartedly joining the Trio with truly dark intentions, the writers' insistence that Andrew was adorable no matter how much evil he supported (UGH). Willow's issues suddenly being handwaved as addiction and not choice (because I'm assuming addiction was more forgivable when they brought her back in S7?). Etc.

 

Ultimately for me, Buffy Season 6 is a great example of writers forcing a star-shaped peg into a square-shaped slot. Their blind spots for specific nonsensical plot lines and (especially) for specific actors really damaged the show. They appeared absolutely blind and deaf to anything but one specific and tiresome point of view.

 

To this day, I see Marti Noxon's name on something and my eyes start twirling -- Mad Men, anything, I can't quite get over what a train wreck she made of this show. And she did it because she gave exhaustive interviews about everything I hated and how necessary it was and how she really just wanted to make Party of Five with Monsters. (Gah.)

Edited March 2, 2015 by paramitch

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

I liked seeing Willow begin to abuse her power and actually thought that, at first, it was an interesting and believable direction for a character as powerless yet easily corruptible as Willow has always shown herself to be. It even dovetailed nicely with the Trio's issues, however ham-handedly.

 

Personally, I am really not on board with the "Willow was ripe for a power trip storyline" school of thought. As monumentally stupid as the magic addiction plotline was, in my opinion at least it was not quite as character destroying as the Willow is evil anvils that were falling down from the sky in many a S6 episode. And it was just as inconsistent with what we had been shown before the magic crack nonsense, albeit in terms of characterization rather than worldbuilding. Plus, let's face it, BtVS always had crappy worldbuilding but until S5 that characterization was very consistent, especially by Hollywood standards.

 

Why I think Willow's characterization is inconsistent? Mostly because I don't think she is "easily corruptible". Let's not forget she successfully used a wish-granting spell as early as S4 only to never use it again. Sure, on a meta level this was because the spell was a source of jokes and way overpowered but still. The delusting spell for Xander and herself and the plans to curse Veruca/love whammy Oz are often brought up as early signs of Willow "going dark", never mind none of these spells was actually cast. Then we get to S6 where they all but put a sign "Resurrecting people is evil, evil, evil and no one is to blame but Willow because she is evil, evil and did I mention evil!". And it only gets worse from there on.

 

 

To this day, I see Marti Noxon's name on something and my eyes start twirling -- Mad Men, anything, I can't quite get over what a train wreck she made of this show.

 

I really don't understand why Noxon so often gets more blame for the S6-7 debacle than Whedon. He approved all the major plotlines and most of them root problems of S6 can be clearly seen in his desperate Emmy grab, I mean, highly artistic masterpiece, OMWF. Spuffy, Willow treating Tara like a toy, writing characters OOC for the sake of an awful joke (Xander becoming Sweet's "queen"), Spike swooping to save Buffy while the Scoobies inexplicably watch idly, etc. And when he came back full time in S7 there was no improvement whatsoever.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Jack Shaftoe

[cheezwhiz346]

Personally, I am really not on board with the "Willow was ripe for a power trip storyline" school of thought. As monumentally stupid as the magic addiction plotline was, in my opinion at least it was not quite as character destroying as the Willow is evil anvils that were falling down from the sky in many a S6 episode. And it was just as inconsistent with what we had been shown before the magic crack nonsense, albeit in terms of characterization rather than worldbuilding. Plus, let's face it, BtVS always had crappy worldbuilding but until S5 that characterization was very consistent, especially by Hollywood standards.

 

Why I think Willow's characterization is inconsistent? Mostly because I don't think she is "easily corruptible". Let's not forget she successfully used a wish-granting spell as early as S4 only to never use it again. Sure, on a meta level this was because the spell was a source of jokes and way overpowered but still. The delusting spell for Xander and herself and the plans to curse Veruca/love whammy Oz are often brought up as early signs of Willow "going dark", never mind none of these spells was actually cast. Then we get to S6 where they all but put a sign "Resurrecting people is evil, evil, evil and no one is to blame but Willow because she is evil, evil and did I mention evil!". And it only gets worse from there on.

 

 

I really don't understand why Noxon so often gets more blame for the S6-7 debacle than Whedon. He approved all the major plotlines and most of them root problems of S6 can be clearly seen in his desperate Emmy grab, I mean, highly artistic masterpiece, OMWF. Spuffy, Willow treating Tara like a toy, writing characters OOC for the sake of an awful joke (Xander becoming Sweet's "queen"), Spike swooping to save Buffy while the Scoobies inexplicably watch idly, etc. And when he came back full time in S7 there was no improvement whatsoever.

While I disagree about Willow's characterization (I don't think of her as evil, but I think hubris was an issue for her that was pretty consistent), I totally agree about Marti Noxon. I know she's written some episodes I wasn't fond of, but Joss knew what was going on; the man's not perfect, and he's capable of some pretty awful plots/characterizations. That doesn't mean he hasn't written (and doesn't continue to write) good material; it just means he can be blamed for stuff.

Edited March 3, 2015 by damngoodcoffee

[AndySmith]

And it was just as inconsistent with what we had been shown before the magic crack nonsense

 

Yes, because as we all know, magic is supposed to be a one-way ticket to Lesboville or something.

 

They really did a shitty job on the mythology of magic on this show...

Edited March 5, 2015 by AndySmith

[KirkB]

The stupidest part of the whole magic as crack thing for me was that they spent most of season 6 beating us over the head with it, how Willow was an addict and she couldn't control herself and she always needed more, blah blah blah only for even them to apparently realize how ridiculous it was and undo the whole previous plot with a single line from Giles at the start of 7.

[paramitch]

I definitely think Noxon had a specific vision for Season 6, was the driving force behind the plot, and was understandably excited to put it into practice. I don't think it was Whedon's, although yes, he signed off on it and certainly appeared to support it. She gave many, many detailed interviews about her point of view when it came to the show, and famously and repeatedly talked about her vision of "Buffy" as "Party of Five with Monsters."

 

I think that point of view is palpable as 6 goes along, and for me it was a risk and a direction that just didn't pay off.

 

I have to say, though, that while I was really unhappy with 6, and probably went over the top in describing my reactions to her name onscreen to this day, I didn't hate Noxon or anything. I liked many of the episodes she worked on previous to 6, and "The Wish" remains my all-time favorite episode of Buffy, ever. 

 

But for 6, I just felt like Noxon flipped the original "Buffy" equation in ways that really harmed it. She took the show from the beautiful balance of Whedon's idea that "High school is hell" and instead of turning the ordinary (cliques, boyfriends, sexual exploration) into magic and myth and monsters, she turned magic and myth into the ordinary. So a Slayer, a singularly gifted superhero, became a fast-food worker. So magic became just another addiction. So vampires became (literally) abusive boyfriends. 

 

For me, Noxon, while I'm sure she meant well, utterly flipped Whedon's original vision and irrevocably damaged the show.

 

ETA: Typos. Aghghg.

Edited March 13, 2015 by paramitch