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All Episodes Talk: What's Up Doc?


Meredith Quill

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Speaking of Abbey's exit, one thing I did like about the show on the whole was the majority of main characters didn't leave in the final episode of their final season, and new characters didn't always show up in the first episode of their first season. Yes, some of the main characters did arrive and leave the show that way, but most didn't. It did add a bit of realism because in life not all new hires show up in late August/early September and not all people leave a company or sadly die during May.

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Oh man, the double whammy of "Be Still My Heart" and "All in the Family" still hits hard.

The acting from Noah and Kelly during the stabbing scene is gripping. The whole cast gets a chance to shine here and seeing everyone springing into action is great stuff. While it will never have the same impact as when I first watched it, this is still amazing TV. Sad to see Lucy go as I was a big fan of her character but the actress wanted out and it was quite a way to go.

Unfortunately the show learned the wrong lessons from this episode IMO as big, overblown tragic events would become more common in later seasons, ultimately taking away from what made ER magic in its early years, the focus on life in the ER.

Edited by Olis93
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1 hour ago, Olis93 said:

 

Unfortunately the show learned the wrong lessons from this episode IMO as big, overblown tragic events would become more common in later seasons, ultimately taking away from what made ER magic in its early years, the focus on life in the ER.

This, This, THIS. I mainly post on Reddit but I have been saying this for over a year now. After the success of these two episodes, the show began to rely too heavily on personal melodrama. It did not begin  after Mark left.  Season 7 alone you had Benton's nephew dying, the Maggie arc and Mark being diagnosed with cancer. 

Edited by Mrsmaul2021
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I think what also helped "Be Still My Heart"/"All in the Family" was that it was relatively unspoiled or hyped up. We didn't know at the time - or at least it wasn't advertised much as such - that Kellie Martin was leaving, so those episodes really were a punch to the gut (much in the same way George Clooney returning for Carol's exit was a pleasant surprise because we didn't know about it ahead of time as well).

Plus in Lucy's case, there was that extra shock of her being the first main character to get killed off (yeah I know Dennis Gant died as well but he was a recurring character) instead of leaving County.

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IMO as big, overblown tragic events would become more common in later seasons,

Sadly, Grey's Anatomy learned the same lesson as well.

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7 hours ago, Palimelon said:

I think what also helped "Be Still My Heart"/"All in the Family" was that it was relatively unspoiled or hyped up. We didn't know at the time - or at least it wasn't advertised much as such - that Kellie Martin was leaving, so those episodes really were a punch to the gut (much in the same way George Clooney returning for Carol's exit was a pleasant surprise because we didn't know about it ahead of time as well).

Plus in Lucy's case, there was that extra shock of her being the first main character to get killed off (yeah I know Dennis Gant died as well but he was a recurring character) instead of leaving County.

Sadly, Grey's Anatomy learned the same lesson as well.

I'm up to season 14 in my re-watch and I can't wait for it to be over so it can begin again. They replaced to intro theme music and the whole thing sucks. I am so sick of Abby.

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10 hours ago, Palimelon said:

 

 

Sadly, Grey's Anatomy learned the same lesson as well.

 

 

In the later seasons you can tell ER was trying to compete with GA. 

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm up to season 14 in my re-watch and I can't wait for it to be over so it can begin again. They replaced to intro theme music and the whole thing sucks. I am so sick of Abby.

Season 14 I go back in forth on. I felt Luka and Abby are finally in a good place and season 14 should have backburned her character and focused on the other characters. On the other hand I think they needlessly made her an alcoholic only to tie her with Carter and her addiction was always used to get a "reaction" from Carter. In season 14 I felt it was finally about her and I liked how it was handled.. 

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28 minutes ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

 

In the later seasons you can tell ER was trying to compete with GA. 

Season 14 I go back in forth on. I felt Luka and Abby are finally in a good place and season 14 should have backburned her character and focused on the other characters. On the other hand I think they needlessly made her an alcoholic only to tie her with Carter and her addiction was always used to get a "reaction" from Carter. In season 14 I felt it was finally about her and I liked how it was handled.. 

Luka spends too much time with Sam and it kind of weirds me out. Sam is such a off putting character.

32 minutes ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

 

 

you taking me back. I had a house full of relatives and I remember sneaking away in my room to watch this episode.  My cheap ass didn't have cable in my room so the picture had static

I remember being so thrilled at the fact that we were going to have a new episode on Thanksgiving night that my mother and I rushed through cleaning up after dinner so that we could be comfortably settled in by the time it started. 

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27 minutes ago, Dr.OO7 said:

I remember being so thrilled at the fact that we were going to have a new episode on Thanksgiving night that my mother and I rushed through cleaning up after dinner so that we could be comfortably settled in by the time it started. 

I have a similar memory because it was fairly unusual to get new episodes of TV series on a holiday.  In my case, I had online friends who were also fans of the show and we watched 'together' and shared our thoughts.

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I just watched the S11 episode where Kerry meets her birth mother, and I’d forgotten they did the setup where her mother comes into County pretending to be a patient in order to see her, which is also what they did with the plot with Abby’s father in S13. But at least Kerry’s plot was written well; it was nice to see her get her own episode and a big storyline since we never got to see tons of her relationship and family life with Sandy.

I did feel bad for Kerry, though, to think she was getting somewhere and was excited to be learning more about her family history only for her mother to essentially spit on her over her religious beliefs and not willing to accept her for who she is. I know this was before gay marriage was legal, but unfortunately, some people still believe what Helen does about gays. (On the flip side of things, my mom’s side of the family is largely Catholic, my sister who is clearly not religious has a wife, and none of us care or have any feelings of distaste towards her or her wife.) 

Also, as a personal/meaningful side note, someone bookmarked my very first ER fanfic last night. I wrote it over three years ago and kind of rushed it out, so now I feel motivated to rewrite it. May share it here too when I get around to it. I was flattered because it’s gotten some views here and there but it’s nice that someone is excited about this after it was published so long ago. 

 

 

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They are airing Season 15 on Pop now. And I really liked the scene where Sam has moved in with Gates and they are all having a family breakfast. It was nice, good, healthy. Then the next episode they break up because of a car accident that really wasn't anybody's fault. My thing is, this was the final season, do we need drama and misery 24/7? They couldn't be a functional family throughout the duration of the season? It really irritated me.

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4 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

They are airing Season 15 on Pop now. And I really liked the scene where Sam has moved in with Gates and they are all having a family breakfast. It was nice, good, healthy. Then the next episode they break up because of a car accident that really wasn't anybody's fault. My thing is, this was the final season, do we need drama and misery 24/7? They couldn't be a functional family throughout the duration of the season? It really irritated me.

And then we have to life or death struggle to save Alex. Why did we have to have all that misery in the final season? I'm watching on POP too. I sure hope they start them over soon. I also hate they the theme music is changed. Why did they do that?

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Sally Field is just amazing in her role as Abby's bipolar mom. A fantastic actress with so many memorable roles. While I was never a big fan of Abby's personal drama swallowing up the show, Maggie's initial arc where she is introduced was incredible acting and made for some excellent TV. Unfortunately they revisit that well one too many times later on which spoils the character for me.

The Kynesha plot is completely pointless and I don't know how Cleo didn't just lose her shit after her apartment was trashed by that girl. I'm surprised Benton and Cleo even lasted after that.

I'm up to the beginning of the end for Mark and it sucks. Mark is my all-time favorite ER character and even though I know what's coming, it still sucks to watch his slow demise. They give you false hope in season 7 but we all know where it leads to at the end of season 8...

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48 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

Sally Field is just amazing in her role as Abby's bipolar mom. A fantastic actress with so many memorable roles. While I was never a big fan of Abby's personal drama swallowing up the show, Maggie's initial arc where she is introduced was incredible acting and made for some excellent TV. Unfortunately they revisit that well one too many times later on which spoils the character for me.

The Kynesha plot is completely pointless and I don't know how Cleo didn't just lose her shit after her apartment was trashed by that girl. I'm surprised Benton and Cleo even lasted after that.

I'm up to the beginning of the end for Mark and it sucks. Mark is my all-time favorite ER character and even though I know what's coming, it still sucks to watch his slow demise. They give you false hope in season 7 but we all know where it leads to at the end of season 8...

I'm watching it on POP, on cable. They have 4 and 5 hour blocks Tues., Wed., Thurs., and Saturday. They're going to start over this Wednesday.

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4 hours ago, Olis93 said:

Sally Field is just amazing in her role as Abby's bipolar mom. A fantastic actress with so many memorable roles. While I was never a big fan of Abby's personal drama swallowing up the show, Maggie's initial arc where she is introduced was incredible acting and made for some excellent TV. Unfortunately they revisit that well one too many times later on which spoils the character for me.

The Kynesha plot is completely pointless and I don't know how Cleo didn't just lose her shit after her apartment was trashed by that girl. I'm surprised Benton and Cleo even lasted after that.

I'm up to the beginning of the end for Mark and it sucks. Mark is my all-time favorite ER character and even though I know what's coming, it still sucks to watch his slow demise. They give you false hope in season 7 but we all know where it leads to at the end of season 8...

The arc with Abby’s mother marked the start of my disliking her, and it never got better the rest of the series, especially as she continued to get every major plotline and so many episodes (even those not about her mother and/or brother) revolving around her, and all her worst traits were just beat over our heads until she finally departed early in the last season. 

I swear on rewatch that Cleo’s facial expression never changes. Or so it seems. Even when Michael Michele tries to show frustration and crying, she cannot sell it. (I saw her episode of SVU a couple weeks ago and she was a lot better in that; I wondered why she never got to showcase that kind of talent on ER.)

I’m still on S11. Cynthia Nixon’s appearance is incredible; she was fantastic at narrating her stroke from her POV when in reality she couldn’t move her face or do much of anything. That episode and Time of Death with Ray Liotta (RIP) really save S11, because I skip a lot of it otherwise. (She is another actress who was amazing in her SVU guest stint.) But now that I’m almost to the end of 11, I feel like the real series finale is when Carter leaves. 

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Watched the episode where Ruby is brought back to the ER as a patient. And while of course it was pretty obvious Carter was lying about not remembering him, I honestly can’t believe Ruby held a grudge for 10 years and accused Carter of killing his wife. Carter did the best he could at the time (way back in Season 2) and maybe shouldn’t have lied, but there’s also no way a med student should have been left alone on that case either. Ruby is kind of a jerk, as we see throughout anyway, but geez 10 years later and still that mad at Carter? Come on. 

I did kind of appreciate that the end of the episode was left open, not knowing whether or not Ruby would agree to the surgery.

Other plot points in this episode:

-I end up liking Morris by the end of the series but I can’t believe he got the chief residency after that disaster of a presentation. It’s ridiculous even for S11 that he would have absolutely no competition. Liked the other callback to S2 of Susan reminding Kerry that she was hired for the chief residency from outside County.

-Also, Susan, Kerry’s and Carter’s expressions during Morris’s presentation were priceless. 

-I really can’t stand Ray. That’s one character we could’ve done without. 

Only three episodes left of S11 for me before an even more abbreviated watch of S12-14.

 

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8 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Watched the episode where Ruby is brought back to the ER as a patient. And while of course it was pretty obvious Carter was lying about not remembering him, I honestly can’t believe Ruby held a grudge for 10 years and accused Carter of killing his wife. Carter did the best he could at the time (way back in Season 2) and maybe shouldn’t have lied, but there’s also no way a med student should have been left alone on that case either. Ruby is kind of a jerk, as we see throughout anyway, but geez 10 years later and still that mad at Carter? Come on. 

 

 

 

 

I honestly do not think Carter was lying. I get Ruby's resentment but accusing Carter of "killing" his wife was going too far. It reminds me of the ep A Shot In The Dark(season 11) where the little girl has an appendicitis but the mother was so hostile to Abby from jump, turns out her husband's father came to county for a routine procedure and he died. Both were still very bitter over that 

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12 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Watched the episode where Ruby is brought back to the ER as a patient. And while of course it was pretty obvious Carter was lying about not remembering him, I honestly can’t believe Ruby held a grudge for 10 years and accused Carter of killing his wife. Carter did the best he could at the time (way back in Season 2) and maybe shouldn’t have lied, but there’s also no way a med student should have been left alone on that case either. Ruby is kind of a jerk, as we see throughout anyway, but geez 10 years later and still that mad at Carter? Come on. 

I did kind of appreciate that the end of the episode was left open, not knowing whether or not Ruby would agree to the surgery.

Other plot points in this episode:

-I end up liking Morris by the end of the series but I can’t believe he got the chief residency after that disaster of a presentation. It’s ridiculous even for S11 that he would have absolutely no competition. Liked the other callback to S2 of Susan reminding Kerry that she was hired for the chief residency from outside County.

-Also, Susan, Kerry’s and Carter’s expressions during Morris’s presentation were priceless. 

-I really can’t stand Ray. That’s one character we could’ve done without. 

Only three episodes left of S11 for me before an even more abbreviated watch of S12-14.

 

Aww, I liked Ray. He turned out to be a good guy.

On early season 8 now. Reaching the end of Malucci and Cleo's time on the show and both of them were such wasted characters IMO. Malucci I never liked or cared for and thought he added almost nothing to the show. Cleo was just Benton's love interest and I have no idea why she didn't dump him sooner, especially after the whole Kynesha plot.

Speaking of season 8, IMO this was a year riddled with pointless arcs that are either a complete waste of time or just get dropped (Nicole arc, Benton custody battle, Babcock/Corday plot, DV arc, Rachel drama).

That combined with how dark and gloomy the show gets and all the horrible things that befall the main cast members, it's just not a fun season to get through.

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1 hour ago, Olis93 said:

 

That combined with how dark and gloomy the show gets and all the horrible things that befall the main cast members, it's just not a fun season to get through.

 

I have said season 8 is not as good as so many claim it is. Some claim the show went downhill AFTER this season and I disagree. Season 7 and 8 brought in all the melodrama and misery. 

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Watching 8x15 and I loved the last scene of Susan helping Mark after his tumor returned. Those two had such a strong friendship and I think the writers missed a lot of opportunities to have them interact again when Susan returned. Instead we got stuck with Mark/Rachel drama and Carter/Susan (ugh).

I'm just glad the producers got Susan back in time for Mark's final days.

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I watched The Pitt over the weekend and really enjoyed it. I’m generally not a fan of medical dramas but I watched ER for most of its run and was a Noah fan so I had to tune in which brought me down the rabbit hole of ER reruns. I did a rewatch about five years ago but as I age and my family ages I find more things that resonate with me. 
I’m almost through the first season and in episode 5 a young girl comes in with Coarctation of the Aorta. I immediately hit pause and called my mom because my son has the same thing. It was something I’d never heard about before my son was diagnosed so I couldn’t believe there was an ER episode about it! Was waiting to see what treatment they were going to use then in typical ER fashion the kid had OD’d on Cocaine and the coarctation never came back up again. 

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I don't know what the writers were thinking with Carter and Abby as a couple. They barely even seemed like they were in a relationship throughout most of season 9 and consistently brought out the worst in each other. Neither one of them looked very happy and the proposal arc was just ridiculous. The whole thing just seemed so pointless and a huge waste of time for both characters.

You really gotta feel for Romano after he loses his arm. Yeah he was a problematic character to say the least and his behaviour got so much worse as they got closer to his death but I still can't help but feel bad for him. Paul McCrane is a phenomenal actor that was able to elicit sympathy for Romano even at his worst which is more than I can say for a lot of other characters on this show. I still get saddened by his ridiculous death but then I remember that the writers really had nowhere left to go with his character.

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52 minutes ago, Olis93 said:

I don't know what the writers were thinking with Carter and Abby as a couple. They barely even seemed like they were in a relationship throughout most of season 9 and consistently brought out the worst in each other. Neither one of them looked very happy and the proposal arc was just ridiculous. The whole thing just seemed so pointless and a huge waste of time for both characters.

You really gotta feel for Romano after he loses his arm. Yeah he was a problematic character to say the least and his behaviour got so much worse as they got closer to his death but I still can't help but feel bad for him. Paul McCrane is a phenomenal actor that was able to elicit sympathy for Romano even at his worst which is more than I can say for a lot of other characters on this show. I still get saddened by his ridiculous death but then I remember that the writers really had nowhere left to go with his character.

 

 

Carter and Abby were a complete waste of time and I hate how they maligned Luka and Abby for this pairingSimon Cowell Wow GIF by America's Got Talent

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I posted on Reddit. It took the doctor in this video pointing out the Coburn/Greene conversation and how it set everything in motion 

When you realize Greene's arrogance caused the issues in Loves Labor Lost. When Greene speaks with Coburn and she wants Greene to start an induction, Coburn asks a very important question "Are you comfortable doing this" which Greene replies: Yes I've delivered dozens of babies. Mind you she didn't ask him that, she asked him was her okay with inducing the labor which is a process on it's own. He gets off of the phone and gripes to Susan about Coburn and Susan calls her a "bitch" for asking Mark that question. It's what I love about ER though, these doctors don't always have all of the answers and they mess up...big time. Mark's lack of respect to Coburn and the practice of OB medicine caused this woman's death. It also explains why Coburns face is always so tight whenever she runs into Mark after this debacle.

 

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That's probably the only episode in which I was ever enraged at Susan.  Yeah, Mark is her friend, whatever.  You don't call another woman a bitch, and you sure as hell don't, after a total clusterfuck of a night, say "she's just covering her ass" when Coburn clearly delineates the astounding "chain of errors in judgment" Mark made -- he missed pre-eclampsia, underestimated the fetal weight, missed a placental abruption (that he never even later caught; it's not until that moment when she physically points to the clot that he sees it), did an "ill-advised" (heh, that seems to be generous) forceps delivery on a baby that's too big, and then an absolute hack job of a C-section.

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7 hours ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I posted on Reddit. It took the doctor in this video pointing out the Coburn/Greene conversation and how it set everything in motion 

When you realize Greene's arrogance caused the issues in Loves Labor Lost. When Greene speaks with Coburn and she wants Greene to start an induction, Coburn asks a very important question "Are you comfortable doing this" which Greene replies: Yes I've delivered dozens of babies. Mind you she didn't ask him that, she asked him was her okay with inducing the labor which is a process on it's own. He gets off of the phone and gripes to Susan about Coburn and Susan calls her a "bitch" for asking Mark that question. It's what I love about ER though, these doctors don't always have all of the answers and they mess up...big time. Mark's lack of respect to Coburn and the practice of OB medicine caused this woman's death. It also explains why Coburns face is always so tight whenever she runs into Mark after this debacle.

 

Mark committed error after critical error in managing the patient, starting when he diagnosed her with a UTI rather than pre-eclampsia when there was protein in her urine.  He also did an ultrasound because he thought the baby was unusually small and then proclaimed her due date was wrong.  First, there is a huge range of error on estimating a baby's due date at term, as in it could be off by 3 weeks either way which is why no one who understands the limitations of ultrasound would ever change the due date of a patient at term who's been getting regular care.  Second, Mark, Mr. "I've delivered dozens of babies' thought the baby was too small when the fact was the kid was too large.  Jody was a medium sized woman, someone with a modicum of experience in prenatal care would have done a more accurate exam.

Finally, as he was doing the cesarean, he and Susan are speculating as to what the bladder flap might be and how it might be managed.  That is cesarean section 101.  If Jody had lived, I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that Mark had opened her bladder and/or cut her ureters in addition to delivering the baby.  

He screwed up royally and it was no surprise when the hospital settled the case rather than go to trial.  The fact that Mark was so full of himself, bragging about his skills while complaining about the OB staff was not a good look for him.

Edited by Notabug
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(edited)
5 minutes ago, Notabug said:

Mark committed error after critical error in managing the patient, starting when he diagnosed her with a UTI rather than pre-eclampsia when there was protein in her urine.  He also did an ultrasound because he thought the baby was unusually small and then proclaimed her due date was wrong.  First, there is a huge range of error on estimating a baby's due date at term, as in it could be off by 3 weeks either way which is why no one who understands the limitations of ultrasound would ever change the due date of a patient at term whose been getting regular care.  Second, Mark, Mr. "I've delivered dozens of babies' thought the baby was too small when the fact was the kid was too large.  Jody was a medium sized woman, someone with a modicum of experience in prenatal care would have done a more accurate exam.

Finally, as he was doing the cesarean, he and Susan are speculating as to what the bladder flap might be and how it might be managed.  That is cesarean section 101.  If Jody had lived, I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that Mark had opened her bladder and/or cut her ureters in addition to delivering the baby.  

He screwed up royally and it was no surprise when the hospital settled the case rather than go to trial.  The fact that Mark was so full of himself, bragging about his skills while complaining about the OB staff was not a good look for him.

 

 

I knew you would bring the facts and Coburn didn't ask if he had delivered children, she asked was he comfortable doing an induction. That's a totally different thing

57 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I respected Coburn a lot more after watching that YouTube video. The episode was on Pop last week and I was still just as much on the edge of my seat as I was the first time I saw it even though I knew how it would end. 

It's a great episode but Susan and even some fans wanted to vilify Coburn and she asked a legit question

Edited by Mrsmaul2021
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1 minute ago, Mrsmaul2021 said:

I knew you would bring the facts 

It's a great episode but Susan and even some fans wanted to vilify Coburn and she asked a legit question

I will say that it was egregious that no one from the OB department came down to assess Jody in the hours and hours she was there.  I would never happen in real life.  And no ER doc ever would agree to monitor and induce an eclamptic patient in the ER.  But, obviously, TPTB needed a main cast member to handle the case and didn't have any actual OB docs for the role.

Coburn was kind of snotty in the way she spoke to Mark, but she wasn't wrong.  It also begs the question as to why she didn't demand Jody be brought to L&D immediately since she was very likely by far the sickest pregnant woman in the hospital at that moment.

In real life, ER's do not have fetal monitors, both because they are expensive and because there is no point in having one unless someone has training in interpreting the results.  And, in 40 years, I haven't run into a single ER doc who would've felt capable of interpreting the monitor.

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