The Closer - General Discussion

[BooksRule]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Did his sister call him Fritzy, too?  I can't remember.

I don't remember, but I did just watch the two-parter where she and Fritz went to Atlanta to get the guy who had skipped town and everybody had to ride back to LA in her parents' RV.  She called him Fritzie and her dad laughed at him.  I agree that it's one thing to have that nickname as a personal endearment, but it should only be used in private.  I've never been comfortable with couples calling each other by pet names in public (either by cutesy names--'honey bun', 'sweetie pie', or --especially-- by 'I mean it in fun' insulting names). 

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

Did his sister call him Fritzy, too?  I can't remember.

Just looked it up, and, yes, Claire calls him "Fritzy" too--which shouldn't surprise us since she too can be very annoying at times--well, maybe all the time.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Just looked it up, and, yes, Claire calls him "Fritzy" too--which shouldn't surprise us since she too can be very annoying at times--well, maybe all the time.

I'd go with all the time. But I'm still amazed at how Brenda was with her. She was no doubt annoyed by her. She remained calm, nice and never yelled at her once. When Flynn or whoever called her a psychic she corrected him to whatever Claire called herself. It was really unexpected. She was probably trying to make a good impression you'd think at some point Brenda would have lost her cool or gotten mad and went off on her. Nope. Not even with Claire yelling into her earbug when Brenda was interrogating the suspect. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by andromeda331

[Raja]

16 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I don't remember, but I did just watch the two-parter where she and Fritz went to Atlanta to get the guy who had skipped town and everybody had to ride back to LA in her parents' RV.  She called him Fritzie and her dad laughed at him.  I agree that it's one thing to have that nickname as a personal endearment, but it should only be used in private.  I've never been comfortable with couples calling each other by pet names in public (either by cutesy names--'honey bun', 'sweetie pie', or --especially-- by 'I mean it in fun' insulting names). 

Being bi-cultural myself on one side of the family the use of pet names is universal and a more accurate proof of a couple status than the proper piece of jewelry placed on the proper finger. Everybody recognizes it when they hear and honors their status  it, as couples rarely if ever use their given first names when talking to each other.  But then if you worked together reverting to Agent/Chief signals work conversation. But if going less formal the pet names would still be used.

In the case of Closer/Major Crimes characters you would hear Chief Johnson and Agent Howard or Fritzy and a pet name for the Chief but never would they refer to themselves as Brenda and Fritz as those names are relegated to someone not as close. Similarly on Major Crimes  when Commander Raydor and Lieutenant Flynn started with the Sharon and Andy talk and Lieutenant Provenza noticed as their relationship bloomed in my other culture they may have been "honey, love" or something unique to each other and Sharon/Andy to Rusty, Louie Provenza and others.

[andromeda331]

Provenza called Fritz, Fritzy once too in one of the episodes where he and Flynn messed up. I think its the one when their delivering the subpoena on behalf of the lawyer who ends up dead and turns out to be an imposter. But that's more him trying to get out of trouble and/or keep him from calling Brenda or maybe both. 

[BooksRule]

One of the episodes yesterday was the very special Kitty episode.  Sniff.  Very sad.  I had read that the cat who played Kitty was diagnosed with kidney failure, so they wrote it into the story instead of replacing her (him?) with a new Kitty.  

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

One of the episodes yesterday was the very special Kitty episode.  Sniff.  Very sad.  I had read that the cat who played Kitty was diagnosed with kidney failure, so they wrote it into the story instead of replacing her (him?) with a new Kitty.  

Yes, which makes it even more sad to watch, because it's obvious that Miss Kitty (the cat's real-life name) is sick; she was euthanized just a few weeks after her alter ego.  Another layer to the backstory is that Kyra Sedgwick had to have her own cat put to sleep a few months before filming the episode.

Red Tape is one of my favorite episodes of the series for introducing Sharon Raydor - total game-changer for me - but I also love it for such a heart-wrenching (yet heart-warming, because Brenda comes around and gives Kitty the peaceful death she deserves) conclusion to one of TV's best presentations of pet ownership. 

And then they continued on with Joel.  As I've said before, it's difficult to film with animals, especially cats, so I understand why far fewer TV characters than real people have pets, and why those characters generally have pets never seen unless the plot requires.  With that granted, I really appreciate seeing Kitty and then Joel lounging in the background, being shooed off the table as a scene opens, etc.  Plus, Brenda and Fritz talk about the cat, even when she/he isn't present, like real pet owners do.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yes, which makes it even more sad to watch, because it's obvious that Miss Kitty (the cat's real-life name) is sick; she was euthanized just a few weeks after her alter ego.  Another layer to the backstory is that Kyra Sedgwick had to have her own cat put to sleep a few months before filming the episode.

Red Tape is one of my favorite episodes of the series for introducing Sharon Raydor - total game-changer for me - but I also love it for such a heart-wrenching (yet heart-warming, because Brenda comes around and gives Kitty the peaceful death she deserves) conclusion to one of TV's best presentations of pet ownership. 

And then they continued on with Joel.  As I've said before, it's difficult to film with animals, especially cats, so I understand why far fewer TV characters than real people have pets, and why those characters generally have pets never seen unless the plot requires.  With that granted, I really appreciate seeing Kitty and then Joel lounging in the background, being shooed off the table as a scene opens, etc.  Plus, Brenda and Fritz talk about the cat, even when she/he isn't present, like real pet owners do.

I really liked that too. They did a good job with Kitty and Joel on the show. 

[BooksRule]

I just caught up with the episodes that I recorded yesterday (they show four or more on Fridays).  The last ones were the ones with Brenda's visiting niece (the stereotypical rebellious teen who was sent away to the grandparents by the parents and who the grandparents foisted off on someone else).  She was played by Kyra's real-life daughter Sosie Bacon (fondly known as 'The Bacon Bit' on the old TWoP forum).  I think she did a pretty good job.  I wish she had made another appearance, but she was only on those four episodes. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I just caught up with the episodes that I recorded yesterday (they show four or more on Fridays).  The last ones were the ones with Brenda's visiting niece (the stereotypical rebellious teen who was sent away to the grandparents by the parents and who the grandparents foisted off on someone else).  She was played by Kyra's real-life daughter Sosie Bacon (fondly known as 'The Bacon Bit' on the old TWoP forum).  I think she did a pretty good job.  I wish she had made another appearance, but she was only on those four episodes. 

The writers or producers or who ever had been wanting to bring Sosie Bacon on for awhile. But Kyra and Kevin kept turning them down. They didn't want to mess up with her school and stuff. One finally convinced them by saying that it would be like an after school or summer job just for a couple weeks when she wasn't in school and they agreed. I really didn't expect to like Charlie and expected to be annoyed by her but I was really surprised at how much I liked her. She had problems and I liked the way each episode helped with that. The first one when she's listening to James who was schizophrenia (sp?) talking about what he needed to do to keep taking his medicine and not listen to his friends. How his dad used to be so proud of him. That really seemed to register with her. The one with the teen boy who was shot. I liked Brenda decided in the second episode not to give up on Charlie just yet after listening to the mother of the murder victim regretting that she gave up on her son. Charlie not wanting to leave because she was doing so well. They really did a good job with her and her story. Sosie did an awesome job. I wish we saw her again too.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I just caught up with the episodes that I recorded yesterday (they show four or more on Fridays).  The last ones were the ones with Brenda's visiting niece (the stereotypical rebellious teen who was sent away to the grandparents by the parents and who the grandparents foisted off on someone else).  She was played by Kyra's real-life daughter Sosie Bacon (fondly known as 'The Bacon Bit' on the old TWoP forum).  I think she did a pretty good job.  I wish she had made another appearance, but she was only on those four episodes. 

I've rewatched most of The Closer episodes many times, and, for me, the ones with Sosi hold up really well, much better than I expected. I wish she'd had more episodes too.
  
  

Speaking of episodes I've rewatched multiple times--
7.2 "Repeat Offender" just aired, but there's something that still bothers me: If Pope had not ordered Captain Raydor to go back and do a more extensive audit regarding the Terrell Baylor case, would the lawsuit have just faded away before Peter Goldman latched onto it as an opportunity? 

Here's the relevant dialogue from the episode:

[Captain Raydor to Chief Pope, summarizing her audit's first conclusion]: So Turell Baylor confessed to the murders of 74-year-old Charlie Niles and his 8-year-old grandson, Chris.
This case could not be prosecuted, however, because, as you know, at your request, the D.A.'s office had given Mr. Baylor immunity in exchange for his statement. Chief Johnson then released Mr. Baylor at his home. Later that day, he was found beaten to death behind his residence. But Chief Johnson's conduct during this investigation, and that of her division, fell entirely within California state law and the rules and policy of the L.A.P.D. Case closed. I am done.
[Pope]: I've got to say, Captain, on the face of it, this audit seems incredibly superficial.
[Raydor]: Sir? 
[Pope]: I want you to go back down to Major Crimes, interview everyone, and make sure we have no vulnerabilities.
[Raydor]: We always have vulnerabilities. Okay. If you want further analysis of our legal defense, then I think the city attorney -- 
[Pope]: No. I'm not opening our files to any outsiders. Period.
[Raydor]: My relationship with Chief Johnson is already complicated.
[Pope]: Yeah, well, you're the one who decided on a career in Internal Affairs.
(Which we viewers know from a previous episode was never the career Sharon wanted; it was just a means of advancement for a woman in a male dominated field.)

Later, at the home of Brenda and Fritz:
[Fritz]: I told you. Didn't I tell you? I told you, do not trust Pope.
[Brenda]: Look, Will is in a difficult position right now.
[Fritz]: Difficult position? He's Chief. And now that he's on top, he's gonna fight to stay there, even if that means throwing you under the bus.
[Brenda]: You know, Will is on this lawsuit, too. It's Raydor. Now she wants to interview my entire division.
[Fritz]: - Ah-ha! - 
[Brenda]: What "ah-ha"? 
[Fritz]: Pope sicced Raydor on you so you could take all the blame, and he gets to keep his fourth star.
[Brenda]: No. Your friend Chief Delk sicced Raydor on me.
(Chief Delk had recently died suddenly and unexpectedly from an aneurysm.)
[Fritz]: And she's still following you, isn't she? Because Pope wants her to. He is a survivor, that guy, like a -- like a cockroach.
[Brenda]: Look, when it comes to Will, you are just irrational.
[Fritz]: Yeah, well, you're -- you're just too trusting.

[BooksRule]

I just watched the 'Flynn and Provenza' episode where they picked up the two flight attendants and found the dead guy in the bathtub at one of the girls' apartment (he had been badly beaten with a baseball bat, but died from a broken neck while falling into the tub).  I loved this comment by Dr. Morales:  'Frankly, I'm not even sure I would call it a murder. More like an accidental death in the middle of someone else's hissy fit'.  

[Bastet]

That episode is filled to the brim with funny lines, but my favorite thing is Brenda's face when she realizes why Provenza won't get off the couch. 

[BooksRule]

21 hours ago, Bastet said:

That episode is filled to the brim with funny lines, but my favorite thing is Brenda's face when she realizes why Provenza won't get off the couch. 

I know!  You could almost see an 'Ewww!' in a bubble over her head.  It's interesting to watch these episodes again after a long time and see how both Flynn and Provenza matured over time.  Provenza always had a little in him--he could be picking up young women in one scene and then giving very good fatherly advice to others on the team.  And, watching Flynn interact with Sharon, knowing how they got together later (even if it was only for a little while, darn it!).  I think he was the one who drew the figure of a witch with 'Sharon' over it with an arrow pointing down at it.  If he didn't draw it, then he was the one who drew the witch's hat.  (And when we see it later, there's a scribble-y twister bearing down on the figure. So funny!

[shapeshifter]

7.14 "Road Block" aired today. Elizabeth Perkins and other guest cast members help elevate this episode, plus we see the more serious side of Andy Flynn.

This is the first time I noticed an issue in this episode that bugs me:
Brenda is talking to the daughter of the alcoholic mother (and wife of the police commissioner) after she (Brenda) has learned about Fritz and what it means to be someone affected by an addiction, but Brenda also tells the daughter, "I promise you -- I'm gonna get your mom to stop drinking if it's the last thing I do," which is the opposite of what they teach in Al-Anon, AA, etc. because no one can change someone else's behavior. The addict has to want to change. 

I guess we are supposed to interpret Brenda's words to mean that she is going to back the alcoholic mom (who killed a teenager while driving drunk and then tried to pin it on a busboy) into a corner where she cannot drink (prison), but it also sounds like the words of someone who doesn't yet know how these things work--which is possible too. 

I guess I just wish they'd been a little more clear about the meaning behind Brenda's words: "I'm gonna get your mom to stop drinking."

Anyway, IMDb shows an 8.9/10 rating for the episode; I'd give it at least that.

[Bastet]

57 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

but it also sounds like the words of someone who doesn't yet know how these things work--which is possible too. 

Well, that's Brenda in a nutshell; she never bothered to learn anything about what Fritz dealt with as an addict in recovery, and the one time she expressed an interest in the AA aspect of his life it had nothing to do with him, but as research for a case. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Well, that's Brenda in a nutshell; she never bothered to learn anything about what Fritz dealt with as an addict in recovery, and the one time she expressed an interest in the AA aspect of his life it had nothing to do with him, but as research for a case. 

On screen, yes, but at the end of 6.15 "An Ugly Game" (in which the "smoker broker" crack addict kills and kidnaps 2 young women, and Gabriel has to go to Fritz to convince Brenda that the rich young addict is lying in time to save the kidnapped girl's life) the last lines are:

   [Brenda]: Um, I know you had this other life before you stopped drinking.
                   I don't like to think about it but maybe I should.

   [Fritz]:      Okay. What would you like me to tell you?

   [Brenda]: Uh Everything I don't wanna hear.

So it just seems like Brenda should know better by 7.14.
But I am seeing these episodes close together, whereas they were written a year apart, and we never do hear how far the conversation goes off screen. 
Plus, Brenda could have just been lying to the daughter to get her to bear witness to how much her mother drank before driving that night.

I guess I would have liked Fritz to hear Brenda say she was "gonna get [Kelly's] mom to stop drinking if it's the last thing I do," and then say something to her about it later, with Brenda explaining that she knew it wasn't true.
Then Brenda would still be herself, but viewers could get a tiny PSA.

Edited March 30, 2019 by shapeshifter

[MaryMitch]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Plus, Brenda could have just been lying to the daughter to get her to bear witness to how much her mother drank before driving that night.

It's Brenda talking to a witness. Of course she was lying.

[shapeshifter]

I just realized that the character of Brenda is a caricature of my sister. 
Now I'm watching for tips on communicating with her.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I saw the episode where Gavin, the attorney has nixed the settlement with Goldman for the Ty Baylor case, and when he says he needs more money for the defense, and Brenda says the city, and Pope paid it.       I love when Gavin tells the truth that Pope and the city paid nothing, the Fritz paid the money, and Brenda realizes that Pope is a total jerk, and never cared about her at all.     I've loathed Pope and his machinations, even more than Taylor.   Taylor never pretended to be anything but ambitious, and Pope did every sneaky thing he could to get ahead, and to pay Brenda back for not coming back to him.    The way he kept Sharon investigating the Major Crimes group, and wouldn't admit he was behind it was dirty politics at it's best by him.   The look on her face when she realized what a jerk he was, and the way she found a way to transition to the D.A.'s office for the newly created investigations division was so great, and Pope never had a clue.     

I loved seeing the scene where Sharon Raydor nails the killer with the bean bag gun, and the squad members are marveling at her marksmanship, and she says it was a lucky shot, and that the bean bag gun has a terrible recoil.     I can see the writers transitioning from Brenda to Sharon for the squad.  

Edited April 4, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[Anela]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:36 PM, BooksRule said:

I just watched the 'Flynn and Provenza' episode where they picked up the two flight attendants and found the dead guy in the bathtub at one of the girls' apartment (he had been badly beaten with a baseball bat, but died from a broken neck while falling into the tub).  I loved this comment by Dr. Morales:  'Frankly, I'm not even sure I would call it a murder. More like an accidental death in the middle of someone else's hissy fit'.  

Isn't that the "bless your heart" episode? I love that one. I really need to watch all of this again. I haven't watched it for years. 

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I saw the episode where Gavin, the attorney has nixed the settlement with Goldman for the Ty Baylor case, and when he says he needs more money for the defense, and Brenda says the city, and Pope paid it.       I love when Gavin tells the truth that Pope and the city paid nothing, the Fritz paid the money, and Brenda realizes that Pope is a total jerk, and never cared about her at all.     I've loathed Pope and his machinations, even more than Taylor.   Taylor never pretended to be anything but ambitious, and Pope did every sneaky thing he could to get ahead, and to pay Brenda back for not coming back to him.    The way he kept Sharon investigating the Major Crimes group, and wouldn't admit he was behind it was dirty politics at it's best by him.   The look on her face when she realized what a jerk he was, and the way she found a way to transition to the D.A.'s office for the newly created investigations division was so great, and Pope never had a clue.     

I loved seeing the scene where Sharon Raydor nails the killer with the bean bag gun, and the squad members are marveling at her marksmanship, and she says it was a lucky shot, and that the bean bag gun has a terrible recoil.     I can see the writers transitioning from Brenda to Sharon for the squad.  

That's what always bugged me about Pope. Way back in season one he says he'll deal with Taylor but he never did. He tells Brenda he will but he doesn't. In her second case he wasted no time in canceling Brenda's order to arrest Dean Kingsley. Yes, Flynn and Taylor talked to him but he didn't have to say yes. He knew Brenda and enough to realize Brenda probably had a reason for it. Instead of trusting her and letting the order stand or backing her up by telling Flynn to follow out the order, or calling Brenda and ask. He just immediately folds and cancels the order and undermines her authority. Gives Taylor and Flynn a reason to think if she screws up she's out the door. I don't like how he's always happy when there's a problem between Brenda and Fritz or happy he seemed when telling Brenda about Fritz's DUIs. His horrible behavior when he thought he was in the running for Chief of Police or how angry he got at Brenda, or "allowing" her to run. Or for some reason believing he couldn't put an end to the investigation into her. Yet even though Brenda knows most of it she still has blinders when it comes to him. She seems to think he still has her back.  

Edited April 5, 2019 by andromeda331

[CrazyInAlabama]

That's why I loved the Gavin scene, where Brenda finally has to admit to herself that Pope has never been on her side.

This Tuesday morning they show the Closer final episode, with the introduction of Rusty, and the last scene where Brenda announces she's going to the DA's new investigation division, taking Gabriel, and the squad replaces her purse, and it's full of Ding Dongs too.     

That's such a contrast with the pilot episode that immediately follows where she's the outsider.    

Edited April 8, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[BooksRule]

I've been recording all episodes during this rotation and I've really enjoyed them.  The only episode that was skipped was season one, episode seven and I have the DVR set to catch it next week when they start over.  I like Brenda's lawyer Gavin and I wish he had been on more episodes. He was a hoot, and I liked how he dealt with the other lawyer (Goldman?).  I kept trying to figure out where I knew him from and had to look him up.  I knew him as Jacob on 'Lost'.  

Now I'll have to keep checking the one channel (so far) on my channel line-up that is showing 'Major Crimes' and start recording them when that rotation starts over.  

Edited April 7, 2019 by BooksRule
Clarification

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

This Tuesday morning they show the Closer final episode, with the introduction of Rusty, and the last scene where Brenda announces she's going to the DA's new investigation division, taking Gabriel, and the squad replaces her purse, with Ding Dongs too.     

That's such a contrast with the pilot episode that immediately follows where she's the outsider.    

I love seeing them right after each other in syndication because the pilot episode begins with Brenda saying "it looks like love" which is also how she ends the series finale.
I just really appreciate when writers skillfully knit parts of past episodes together with later ones.

2 hours ago, BooksRule said:

I like Brenda's lawyer Gavin and I wish he had been on more episodes. He was a hoot, and I liked how he dealt with the other lawyer (Goldman?).  I kept trying to figure out where I knew him from and had to look him up.  I knew him as Jacob on 'Lost'.  

I loved the character of Gavin too and would have liked more of him but, alas, Mark Pellegrino was doing 3 other shows then. Gavin may have been the only character that Pellegrino played that was likable.

[BooksRule]

Watched the final episode this morning.  I had forgotten that Stroh broke into her house and she shot him.  I was thinking that he just went away for a while and showed back up on 'Major Crimes'.  I know that Rusty could be really annoying sometimes, but I felt sorry for him on this episode.  He was so emotional when he was asking Brenda to look for his mother. 

[kathyk2]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 10:52 PM, andromeda331 said:

That's what always bugged me about Pope. Way back in season one he says he'll deal with Taylor but he never did. He tells Brenda he will but he doesn't. In her second case he wasted no time in canceling Brenda's order to arrest Dean Kingsley. Yes, Flynn and Taylor talked to him but he didn't have to say yes. He knew Brenda and enough to realize Brenda probably had a reason for it. Instead of trusting her and letting the order stand or backing her up by telling Flynn to follow out the order, or calling Brenda and ask. He just immediately folds and cancels the order and undermines her authority. Gives Taylor and Flynn a reason to think if she screws up she's out the door. I don't like how he's always happy when there's a problem between Brenda and Fritz or happy he seemed when telling Brenda about Fritz's DUIs. His horrible behavior when he thought he was in the running for Chief of Police or how angry he got at Brenda, or "allowing" her to run. Or for some reason believing he couldn't put an end to the investigation into her. Yet even though Brenda knows most of it she still has blinders when it comes to him. She seems to think he still has her back.  

Amen I hate that Pope's role in the T Ball situation gets overlooked. He tells Brenda to give him immunity so Brenda can't arrest him for the murder of the store owner and his grandson. She also investigated the murder of woman he dated while she was married. Pope was a jerk during the investigation of the parole board member's death. I cheered when he was called out.

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

Amen I hate that Pope's role in the T Ball situation gets overlooked. He tells Brenda to give him immunity so Brenda can't arrest him for the murder of the store owner and his grandson. She also investigated the murder of woman he dated while she was married. Pope was a jerk during the investigation of the parole board member's death. I cheered when he was called out.

So did I. He deserved to called out for that and a lot more. Yes, his roll in the T Ball does get overlooked. 

[MaryMitch]

Today on Lifetime we saw 3 of my favorite episodes:
"Overkill" - the last 3 minutes are so intense, and Sanchez's "Hey Marty" was absolutely chilling.
"Serving the King", parts 1 and 2 - Every time I watch this I pick up a new plot point. Twisty turny, and has one of my favorite Closer characters - "look what Elaine has found!"

[shapeshifter]

41 minutes ago, MaryMitch said:

"Serving the King", parts 1 and 2 - Every time I watch this I pick up a new plot point. Twisty turny, and has one of my favorite Closer characters - "look what Elaine has found!"

So it's not just me!

[Bastet]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:15 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

I loved seeing the scene where Sharon Raydor nails the killer with the bean bag gun, and the squad members are marveling at her marksmanship, and she says it was a lucky shot, and that the bean bag gun has a terrible recoil. 

Fritz pisses me off with his "you're not going anywhere bullets may be flying without me" bullshit and I resent the wholly inaccurate portrayal of the inmates at Men's Central Jail, but otherwise "Death Warrant" is one of my favorites - especially for that bean bag gun scene, and everyone's reactions to it both at the time and when Sharon comes into the Murder Room later.  I also really appreciate the little touch that, given she talked about the recoil, when we see Sharon hours later, in the final scene, she has her hand tucked inside her shirt to be resting where the stock of the gun would have bruised her. 

Before the gun, when Sharon reports that she has found and is following the woman, I also love her "Why would I lose her?" and that fabulous face she makes after hanging up with Brenda.

And the way she says, "Yeah.  What did you think I was doing?" when Brenda realizes she really did investigate for a use of force.  I love the way they work together in this one, starting with this exchange:

"Captain Raydor?"
"Chief Johnson."
"I have a complaint."
"When have you not?"

[andromeda331]

I was watching Standards & Practices while doing a Closer marathon. Just a second before Brenda apologizes. She looks at Powell who has this smug smile on her face. I wondered if Brenda planned to say something else but changed her mind when she saw that smile. Brenda notices it and then starts with her epic apologize. 

Speaking of apologizes Pope's apology to the guy who beat his wife was pretty awesome too. 

Asst. Police Chief Will Pope: And now to finish up here, on behalf of the entire LAPD, allow me to say how sorry I am that you lied to us so much, and that you knocked your wife around to such an extent, that we considered you a suspect in her murder. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎4‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 12:06 PM, MaryMitch said:

Today on Lifetime we saw 3 of my favorite episodes:
"Overkill" - the last 3 minutes are so intense, and Sanchez's "Hey Marty" was absolutely chilling.
"Serving the King", parts 1 and 2 - Every time I watch this I pick up a new plot point. Twisty turny, and has one of my favorite Closer characters - "look what Elaine has found!"

I love all three of those episodes. Sanchez's "Hey Marty" was so awesome. I love the twists and turns of Serving the King. Brenda not sure who to trust since no one trusted each other, I liked Andrew, Elaine, and Brenda's remark about Angela being a little hard on herself when Malik's mother explains the teddy bears. Brenda finding the Mole but turning him over to the FBI so he'll still serve time. I like the speech she gives when their waiting for the doctor about the King and the Church, I still think about that one a lot whenever I read or watch something about the Middle Ages and similar stuff. 

[raven]

On 4/17/2019 at 3:12 AM, andromeda331 said:

So did I. He deserved to called out for that and a lot more.

Watching some S1 eps on a rainy Sunday and I really did forget that Pope didn't have her back as much as should have.  He was probably covering his own ass, but it's annoying.  Though I do like his anger at Flynn after Flynn leaks to the press about Brenda being investigated for sexual misconduct.

After watching "Batter Up", Terrence trying to flirt with Brenda is creepy, not funny.  I was always annoyed in this ep that the kittens that Kitty gives birth to are apparently months old, lol.  Of course they couldn't have real newborns, but we could have just heard mewing in a box or something.

Interesting that as Brenda's relationship with Fritz heats up, she is admitting to her attachment with Kitty also.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, raven said:

Watching some S1 eps on a rainy Sunday and I really did forget that Pope didn't have her back as much as should have.  He was probably covering his own ass, but it's annoying.  Though I do like his anger at Flynn after Flynn leaks to the press about Brenda being investigated for sexual misconduct.

After watching "Batter Up", Terrence trying to flirt with Brenda is creepy, not funny.  I was always annoyed in this ep that the kittens that Kitty gives birth to are apparently months old, lol.  Of course they couldn't have real newborns, but we could have just heard mewing in a box or something.

Interesting that as Brenda's relationship with Fritz heats up, she is admitting to her attachment with Kitty also.

I didn't either. It took several re-watches before I realized that he didn't have her back. Maybe he was saving his own ass but its crappy. He's the one who brought her to LA, dropping into her the mess. Maybe he under-estimated the grief he got for it. But you'd think he'd back her up. As much as I loathed Flynn and Taylor for their horrible treatment of Brenda they also didn't know her. As the rest of the team got to know her, show how she worked and was good at closing cases their opinions changed. But Pope did. He offered her the job because he knew her, her background, experience and because LAPD was having a huge problem with how they handled cases. He needed her help for the department and to probably save his own job. But then he doesn't back her up. Not in the arrest of Dean Kingsley. He should have trusted Brenda, backed her up or ask her about it. He keeps telling Brenda he'll take care of Taylor but he never does.

I do like him going off on Flynn for transferring tip to Taylor and the newspaper article. It was nice to see him doing his job and backing up Brenda.

[shapeshifter]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

I didn't either. It took several re-watches before I realized that he didn't have her back. Maybe he was saving his own ass but its crappy. He's the one who brought her to LA, dropping into her the mess. Maybe he under-estimated the grief he got for it. But you'd think he'd back her up. As much as I loathed Flynn and Taylor for their horrible treatment of Brenda they also didn't know her. As the rest of the team got to know her, show how she worked and was good at closing cases their opinions changed. But Pope did. He offered her the job because he knew her, her background, experience and because LAPD was having a huge problem with how they handled cases. He needed her help for the department and to probably save his own job. But then he doesn't back her up. Not in the arrest of Dean Kingsley. He should have trusted Brenda, backed her up or ask her about it. He keeps telling Brenda he'll take care of Taylor but he never does.

I do like him going off on Flynn for transferring tip to Taylor and the newspaper article. It was nice to see him doing his job and backing up Brenda.

Although Brenda never stabbed anyone in the back (except maybe Fritz), she was a tough cookie who could stand up to those good old boys, which we viewers might not have seen and appreciated so much if Pope, Flynn, and Taylor hadn't treated her so badly at times. 
But what I really appreciated was that sometimes all three of them did have her back too. 
While this might be due to retconning or different writers, it seemed more realistic, and kept me wondering how things would play out.

[andromeda331]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 5:00 PM, shapeshifter said:

Although Brenda never stabbed anyone in the back (except maybe Fritz), she was a tough cookie who could stand up to those good old boys, which we viewers might not have seen and appreciated so much if Pope, Flynn, and Taylor hadn't treated her so badly at times. 
But what I really appreciated was that sometimes all three of them did have her back too. 
While this might be due to retconning or different writers, it seemed more realistic, and kept me wondering how things would play out.

Probably not. It was really fun to watch her win over the squad during season one. It made it more interesting when Taylor asked for her help when his friend's son was shot in killed in Slippin and again in Cherry Bomb. 

I love Brenda's reactions to things. "He did this to eight women and only got shot once!" or "You killed him because he wouldn't take notes." or "Am I to understand you handed all the evidence including a loaded gun to a Detective Dick Tracey?

[shapeshifter]

A lot has been posted here about how Will Pope was never looking out for Brenda's best interests, which I had never really grasped,
but I think I'm finally seeing it.
Yesterday 6.10 "Executive Order" re-aired:

Quote

After two paramedics are murdered, the LAPD and the FBI's separate investigations seem to indicate that a terrorist attack is on the horizon, and Brenda must collaborate on the case with one of her competitors for the job of Chief of Police.

in which we have this dialog:

Quote

[Tommy Delk] Chief Johnson, the memorial begins in 40 minutes. If you really wanna call this off, it's now or never.
. . . 
[Will Pope] If you cancel this funeral and no bomb is found you will embarrass the department and you will never be chief.

[Brenda] I'll risk it.

[Will Pope] No, you won't. I'm canceling this memorial until further notice. My decision.

Given that at this point Will is no longer in the running for Chief of Police, this could seem like he's doing Brenda a solid.

However, I now realize that Will is gambling on the chance that if she's right in believing the funeral should be canceled (because it's the target of a terrorist bomb plot--and Brenda is frequently right about such things), and if she becomes Chief of Police, then she will see that he still has a job, whereas Tommy Delk would not, and if Brenda cancels the funeral, and there's no bomb, she definitely won't be in a position to save him. 

Later, when they're all in Will's office watching Tommy Delk get sworn in at the new Chief of Police:

Quote

[Will Pope] . . . if anybody needs me after this, I'll be in my office typing up my résumé.

  
  
  

[Bastet]

Will Pope is always out for himself first, and while he put up with a lot from her, he nonetheless did Brenda dirty a few times, but once he had the Chief position well in hand, he also made deals to save her job (of course, he did it as much because preserving Major Crimes, and keeping her in charge of it, made him look good since that was his brainchild and she was his pick, but he still gets points for that final stretch of season seven), so he's an interesting character.  Taylor was just a snake until the very end (and then the only reason he starts running interference for her instead of being an interference is because he knows he's going to be made Asst. Chief) and then Major Crimes, but Pope was always much more nuanced, and I liked that.  I think the show handled their history well overall, how it gave each of them blind spots for the other sometimes, but also made them both feel comfortable manipulating the other.

[shapeshifter]

49 minutes ago, Bastet said:

but also made them both feel comfortable manipulating the other.

That^ is a very accurate description!

[CrazyInAlabama]

The showed the finale this morning on Lifetime, tomorrow are three assorted first season episodes, then next Tuesday they show the pilot and the next two episodes from season one.

I love the squad replacing her purse after Stroh gets it.     

[MaryMitch]

26 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The showed the finale this morning on Lifetime, tomorrow are three assorted first season episodes, then next Tuesday they show the pilot and the next two episodes from season one.

I love the squad replacing her purse after Stroh gets it.     

And filling it with Ding Dongs!

I know it was the last episode, and I didn't want Brenda to be in trouble, but I was surprised how she was able to get a job with the DA's office after attacking Stroh in the elevator. Actually, I wanted her to kill that SOB in her kitchen; she could have gotten away with it and spared us all those Stroh episodes in "Major Crimes".

Edited May 23, 2019 by MaryMitch

[CrazyInAlabama]

The attack on Stroh was part of the reason she went to work for the D.A.      I think the D.A. job was created for her after the lawsuit was nullified, and she knew that she needed to get out of LAPD, before Pope got her fired.     

She finally realized Pope was going to destroy her if he could, after Gavin told her that Fritz paid for his legal services, but Pope gladly took the credit.      I think the real reason Pope brought her to L.A. is because he knew she would get confessions, but also thought she would come running back to him.   He couldn't stand it when she had moved on to Fritz, and Brenda never thought of him as a romantic partner.    It was her major blind spot, until the last season when she realized the truth about him.   My only regret about the Major Crimes where Taylor gets shot, is Pope wasn't standing in front of him.    

Edited May 23, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, MaryMitch said:

I was surprised how she was able to get a job with the DA's office after attacking Stroh in the elevator.

I was very relieved by the finale, that her leaving this job made sense, but that definitely strained credulity -- sitting outside the morgue, with blood on her hands from having attacked someone in order to plant his DNA, seems the right time for Andrea to say to her, "Ya know, we need a new chief investigator, and my bosses would love it to be you"?  Yeah, they'd have loved it yesterday.  Today, as soon as they get word of this?

I get why she takes it, instead of accepting the reprimand and keeping her job; she needs to step back.  Her guilt over not making time for her mom and thus never knowing what Willie Rae wanted to tell her, her learning how much interference Pope and Sharon have had to run to keep her this long, and her taking to heart what Rusty said about her focusing on the dead and using the living all have a big impact on her mental state in her final months there, and she finally steps back from the edge re. her Stroh obsession and does the right thing, arresting him rather than killing him.  To have a job where she can use her investigative skills and get in the trenches some, but not be in such single-minded, immediate pursuit all the time would appeal to her then. 

Spoiler

(And it also makes sense she seems to have done it for a few years and then taken a job in D.C. - it gave her what she needed to regroup, and then she was on to something better suited to the adjusted version of herself.)

It just requires some suspension of disbelief that she had the options she had, rather than having become a liability the City wanted to separate from and the County didn't want to take on - that the LAPD is willing to keep her with just a reprimand, and the DA is happy to hire her.  But I go with it.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

6 hours ago, Bastet said:

I was very relieved by the finale, that her leaving this job made sense, but that definitely strained credulity -- sitting outside the morgue, with blood on her hands from having attacked someone in order to plant his DNA, seems the right time for Andrea to say to her, "Ya know, we need a new chief investigator, and my bosses would love it to be you"?  Yeah, they'd have loved it yesterday.  Today, as soon as they get word of this?

I get why she takes it, instead of accepting the reprimand and keeping her job; she needs to step back.  Her guilt over not making time for her mom and thus never knowing what Willie Rae wanted to tell her, her learning how much interference Pope and Sharon have had to run to keep her this long, and her taking to heart what Rusty said about her focusing on the dead and using the living all have a big impact on her mental state in her final months there, and she finally steps back from the edge re. her Stroh obsession and does the right thing, arresting him rather than killing him.  To have a job where she can use her investigative skills and get in the trenches some, but not be in such single-minded, immediate pursuit all the time would appeal to her then. 

  Hide contents

(And it also makes sense she seems to have done it for a few years and then taken a job in D.C. - it gave her what she needed to regroup, and then she was on to something better suited to the adjusted version of herself.)

It just requires some suspension of disbelief that she had the options she had, rather than having become a liability the City wanted to separate from and the County didn't want to take on - that the LAPD is willing to keep her with just a reprimand, and the DA is happy to hire her.  But I go with it.

I'm good with it too. I was worried they were going to have her go with the route of being fired or just quitting her job all together which I would have hated. Plus it wouldn't fit with Brenda. She'd still be able to do work she likes and be able to care for her father until he recovers. I agree I think she'd stay there for a few years before accepting another job somewhere else.  The only thing I wish had been brought up or reference was Joey O. The cop/detective who tied the suspect he could never get evidence on to the back of his truck and dragged, forced him to confess before killing him. It would have been a great callback since she ends up almost doing the same thing. And he made that remark to her that seemed to be coming true with her obsession with Stroh.  I do like the episode where she was so certain that he raped the girl at the bar, when it turned out to be someone else. Just with a similar MO.

I just finished re-watching the whole series. I still love it. Every season I love so many episodes even the last season. I usually end up hating the last season of a series. But no I liked so many episodes. I liked Brenda's attorney and her becoming friends (?) with Sharon. By the end of the finale. I still didn't want it to end. I could have easily watched two or three more years of Brenda, Joel and the Squad. I love her reactions to stuff and her remarks. I love each member of the squad. I really liked when they switched out who was in the room with Brenda when they got the suspect to confess. I liked her parents. Brenda's screaming for Fritz when she realizes her mother's dead cuts me every time. Its so realistic and well done.  I loved Brenda's and Sharon's back and forth before they became friends.  Sharon's remark when she's asking Brenda questions Brenda thinking it was background Pope's application she asks how long Brenda's been with the LAPD Brenda answers five and half years and Sharon remarks that it seems longer. They did such a good job with Brenda and her cats.

[shapeshifter]

The finale re-aired yesterday, and I am wondering why Brenda and ADA Hobbes had ME Dr. Morales put Stroh's hair and blood on the cap since it was never going to be used as evidence. Why wouldn't Brenda instead just lie to Stroh about having found blood and DNA on the cap, and tell him that she now had his DNA from the elevator, and that as soon as they compared them, she expected to be arresting him? That would have "pushed him over the edge" just as much.

[CrazyInAlabama]

She wanted a confession, and the DNA in the hat was the way to do it.     Stroh was very proud of the fact that he left no evidence, so finding out he goofed with the hat, pushed him over the edge.    It also mad him desperate enough to go after Rusty.  

[shapeshifter]

15 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

She wanted a confession, and the DNA in the hat was the way to do it.     Stroh was very proud of the fact that he left no evidence, so finding out he goofed with the hat, pushed him over the edge.    It also mad him desperate enough to go after Rusty.  

Right.
But why actually put DNA in the cap?
Why not lie Brenda-style, and just say there was DNA in the hat?
Okay. 
I'm going to answer my own question, heh.
Maybe they wanted to have actual DNA in the hat with paperwork from a lab that it was his DNA, in case Stroh called them on it.

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe they wanted to have actual DNA in the hat with paperwork from a lab that it was his DNA, in case Stroh called them on it.

Of course.  Stroh isn't just a suspect, he's a lawyer, and a good one.  He's not going to believe Brenda's lie like some ignorant, scared suspect; they need evidence, and because it will only be used to scare him into messing up, never entered into evidence at trial, Hobbs and Morales are willing to go along with manufacturing evidence - creating a prop for police theatre, basically.  It's why Brenda has Andrea come to the morgue, to assure Dr. Morales it's okay, she knows about it, this isn't just Brenda going crazy (well, she already went crazy, in attacking him, but with that damage done, Andrea is fine with using it - in a way that doesn't violate her ethical obligations to the court and bar - to see if it can do some good).

Edited May 27, 2019 by Bastet

[CrazyInAlabama]

I guess I'm mean, but I really enjoyed Brenda going after Stroh in the elevator.    The look of panic on the squad's faces was amazing.    

I think the entire attack was a plan between Brenda and Andrea, and that's why Andrea wasn't panicking like everyone else was, and why she went to Dr. Morales with Brenda.  

Edited May 28, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama