S05.E07: Episode Seven

[AZChristian]

Re-watched 7 before watching Episode 8 last night.

 

Cora said something at the end that made to sense to me or Mr. AZC.  When Robert brought Isis to their bed, Cora said, "She will be between two people who love her and each other very much.  I hope the same can be said for me when my time comes."

 

Huh?  She wants to be between two people who love her?  Who?  Robert and Bricker? 

[Avaleigh]

I thought Cora was just saying that she'd like to be surrounded by loved ones when she goes.

[lucindabelle]

They were hilarious about that line on the slate spoiler special talking about downton Abbey the big love version...

[Wordsworth]

Edith:  Rosamund warned her what would happen if she left Marigold with the Drewes.  She did it anyway.  Mr. Drewe was given a story about a friend of hers who died.  She offered to give him money to raise the child.  He mentioned that he believed his wife was agreeable to having more children.  He asked her why she didn't raise the baby herself.  Edith said her parents disapproved of the friendship.  At that point, Mr. Drewe understood the real problem.  That's when he offered to write a letter himself from a dying friend and leave his wife out of it.  

 

Flash forward to this season.  It's been at least one year since Marigold was left with the Drewes.  We do not know if Edith is supplementing their income even though she offered to.  Maybe she is.  Maybe Mrs. Drewe doesn't know about any extra money.  What Mrs. Drewe does know is that her husband's friend wrote a letter and asked him to take care of his baby daughter when he died.  That's enough for her.  The baby, so far as she knows, has no parents.  

 

At first, Edith dropping by every so often probably wasn't a big deal to Mrs. Drewe.  For awhile.  But, by the time the action picks up this season, Edith is clearly wearing out her welcome.  Mrs. Drewe doesn't know Edith is Marigold's mother, doesn't know Edith has any connection at all to the child and may not realize there's money being given for her support as the husbands often dealt with the financial end of things.

 

As we pick up season 5, Mrs. Drewe is becoming worried.  Edith stops by at random times, uninvited.  When she's there, she holds Marigold on her lap, petting her, cuddling her, paying no attention to the other children, wanting to put her to bed or help with something, acting very much like a desperate person.  Her attention to the child is not that of a rich lady taking an interest in her well-being and education, but of a very clingy woman not wanting to let go.  Why would it seem strange that Mrs. Drewe would come home, find them nowhere in sight and, for a brief moment, really worry that Edith had kidnapped Marigold?  I'm sure she'd wondered at least once or twice if Edith wanted to do just that.

 

So she complains to her husband, fretting that Edith has a crush on him, trying to make sense of this.  Drewe tells Edith she's got to tone it down.  Edith doesn't.  Instead she brings Rosamund around.  Drewe tells him his wife is threatening to make them move if she won't stop coming around.  Edith shows up at Marigold's naptime and Mrs. Drewe slams the door in her face.

 

We know Mrs. Drewe is being unreasonable because Edith is Marigold's mother, but the problem is that Mrs. Drewe doesn't know that.  

 

So Edith shows up, having annoyed the patootie off of Mrs. Drewe already, with some wild story about Marigold being her daughter.  Of course, Margie doesn't believe her.  As far as she is concerned, Edith is just concocting a fable in order to finally grab Marigold once and for all.  It took Mr. Drewe and the birth certificate to convince her.  She tore up the birth certificate because she didn't want to accept it.  She was angry and distraught, then Edith went right for the baby, exactly what Margie had grown to fear she was after all along.

 

It was not a good situation.  Edith should have asked Mr. Drewe to speak to his wife ahead of time so she knew the real story and not just shown up demanding the child.  At least, Margie could have had time to process the information and vent to her husband about his deception.  Ideally, of course, Edith should have kept her child from the beginning, but, barring that, Drewe should have just gone with her original plan of them raising her as the daughter of a "friend of Edith's" that way Mrs. Drewe would have known from the beginning that Edith would be involved.  

 

She went to Cora to complain about how her family had been exploited so that Edith wouldn't have to face her parents with an illegitimate child.  And she was right.

 

Bateses/Baxter:  I loathe that we are in the middle of another legal controversy for the Bateses.  However...."Downton" loves implying that people know more than they do.  Miss Baxter knows exactly three things:  that somehow Anna was hurt and that Bates feels guilty for not protecting her (she was present when Cora was relating the conversation she overheard part of in the hotel restaurant.  Cora swore her to secrecy), that Mrs. Hughes found something in Mr. Bates' pocket and that Mrs. Hughes later denied to Anna that she found anything of substance.  Now, it would appear that the show is telling us that Miss Baxter was close enough to Mrs. Hughes to know that an untorn train ticket to London was found.  But, at the time, Miss Baxter would not have known that there was anything significant to the ticket in Bates' pocket.  For all she knew, it could have been trash.

 

The Bateses, however, apparently found out what Miss Baxter told the police.  They also have no way of knowing why Miss Baxter told them what she did.  They don't know she was given the job only because Thomas wanted her to spy on people and that he was holding her legal problem over her to get her cooperation.  They don't know that she's had legal problems or that the police threatend her so they could find out what she knew.  So, yeah, of course they're mad at her.  :)

 

Anna/Mrs.Hughes: Ugh, again the show loves for us to think the characters know more than they should.  After the fire, Mrs. Hughes came upon Edith and Drewe speaking together, planning to meet to discuss a better way to explain Edith's constant hovering over her child.  Who knows how much of the conversation Mrs. Hughes overheard?  It looked like she just came up on them.  Then Anna & Mrs. Hughes find a photo of baby Marigold under Edith's pillow while picking through her room after the fire.  Then Anna sees Mr. Drewe with Marigold on the train.  This show often displays how much servants know about the private lives of their employers.  They see and hear much even when they are being overlooked. I'm sure Edith's attachment to this child has come up in mixed company.  My guess is that Mrs Hughes has figured it out, Anna has suspicions, but...well...it's none of their business.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Wordsworth

[lucindabelle]

Excuse me but how do goin now it's been over a year? When is that specified?

A birth certificate is hardly a wild story, and her being angry does not give her the right to rip up an official document. Frankly she should have been figuring it out months ago as it makes much more sense than edith as stalker or dilettante, especially after she brought her own aunt to see the child.

As far as I can see Margie went to Cora out of malice and for revenge.

Edited March 1, 2015 by lucindabelle

[ZoloftBlob]

Per Wikipedia - the season 4 special where Edith approaches Drewe to take the child is summer of 1923. Season five per Wikipedia begins in "Early 1924" and Episode 4 is cited as May 1924. Episode six of Season five is where Edith takes Marigold and timeframe wise it appeared more than a month or two had passed since episode four - so Mrs. Drewe had Marigold from summer of 1923 to summer of 1924 - that's where *I* am getting Mrs. Drewe had the child for a year.

 

Sure, Mrs. Drewe should have figured it out sooner but Fellowes never hesitates to write common people as dumb as possible. So sure, Mrs. Drewe was unrealistically stupid - she was still being lied to by her husband and Lady Edith over how the child she *thought* she adopted and welcomed into the home was really there at Lady Edith's whim.

 

I completely agree Margie went to Cora out of malice. She'd spent a year mothering Cora's grandchild due to a lie and without a thank you and now her family is likely to bear the lord's wrath over Edith's lie. Turnabout is fair play.... edith spent a year fucking over her family, was she supposed to say "Thank you Lady Edith, and of course we'll make no mention of it"? I don't think there's any doubt Margie went to Cora because she was pissed at being used as Edith's free daycare and nanny for a year.

 

Since the Drewes promptly got fucked over into being "that family too poor to afford an extra child so the saintly Crawley girl will have to do it", I think it's fair to say Margie didn't get much revenge.

[lucindabelle]

Actually I disagree. Turnabout is not fair play. I don't approve of malice and never find it justified. Edith did not leave her child with her out of malice and how Margie feels doesn't change what really happened, she ripped up a birth certificate!!,

The only person who deserves her anger is her husband who knew from the start that edith wanted to keep ties to her child and seemed at one point to be ready to move away nd take the baby with them,

I realize some people approve of Margie going to the granthams but I dont. I think the desire to hurt because you feel hurt is always reprehensible. Edith didn't try to hurt anyone, Margie did. Margie felt justified, I get it. Still find it abhorrent.

And there's zero reason Margie was afraid of wrath, zero. She knew and her husband knew edith wanted to keep this secret and just decided to do damage.

Also do we know edith didn't pay support? I don't think so.

Again, I understand people taking margies side, but if anything Margie should now be reevaluating the whole time she cared for that child and Edith's "crazy" ways.

Edited March 1, 2015 by lucindabelle

[ZoloftBlob]

how Margie feels doesn't change what really happened, she ripped up a birth certificate!!,

 

She ripped up a birth certificate because Edith was taking a child from her that she loved as a mother. Losing a child vs a ripped document - was it really Edith who got hurt more by Mrs. Drewe here or the other way around.

 

I mean we can dance around the legal realities of Edith dumping her child and reclaiming it a year later with a birth certificate - at the end of the day, Mrs. Drewe lost a child she loved versus Edith losing a copy of the birth certificate. Who really got the beat down here?

 

As far as turnabout being fair play - are you saying Mrs. Drewe *should* be thanking Edith for the privilege of being the free nanny for a year?

 

Any support paid would never have been told to Mrs. Drewe because Edith never had the balls to be honest to Mrs. Drewe and Mr. Drewe was lying to her as well. Please do understand - I consider Mr. Drewe just as culpable in this but they were BOTH lying to Mrs. Drewe about the child. Edith was not innocent in this lie.

Edited March 1, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[lucindabelle]

As I said I understand why margies felt justified.

But I don't think she WAS. lots of people key their boy friends cars because they feel justified and hurt, what Margie did was illegal.

I understand why she did it. I don't care. I think she was malicious and out for revenge and that to me makes her unlike able and in the wrong no matter what her "feelings" about it were. She didn't try for one second to understand Edith's.

Again. I understand how Margie felt. And I disagree with you that she did what wasright or justifiable.

A legal document is not "just" a document. Would you steal my house because a deed is "just" a document? Basically mrs drewe tried to commit a fraud by destroying evidence. You sympathize because a mother's love etc but I see what she did as a blatant attempt to kidnap a child when confronted with proof that the child was someone else's.

Please don't put words in my mouth, saying Margie was wrong to go to the granthams is NOT saying she should have been saying thank you. im just saying I will never see someone acting maliciously as being ok because their feelings run so deep.

For the record, i also disapprove of people targeting exes employers or new partners or even calling wives or husbands when they knowingly were in an affair. I think revenge is petty bs and demeans the person doing it.

So far as I can see, mrs drewe going to the Graham's was a plot device so Cora could find out. But it threw mrs drewe far far under the bus for me. Any sympathy I might have felt for her evaporated.

Edited March 1, 2015 by lucindabelle

[ZoloftBlob]

I never said it was right, I said I understood it. She went to Cora because she was outraged at being used as Lady Edith's sap for a year and lied to. If she had *killed* Edith - I wouldn't say it was *right* or *justified* but I would understand where her anger came from. If ripping up the birth certificate was unjust - what sort of reaction is Mrs. Drewe allowed? She can't be angry, she can't say or do anything spiteful to Edith... she just has to sob and accept her lot as Edith's unwitting tool and not do or say anything because she's not allowed? What is the acceptable response here for Mrs. Drewe?

 

Also really? Mrs. Drewe was kidnapping the child? I've been trying to avoid the whole "Edith wouldn't be in this position if she hadn't intentionally handed her child to the Drewe family with a bald faced lie that the child was an orphan" issue but really - Edith never even told Mr. Drewe she was the mother, he guessed, and Mrs. Drewe was never told of any connection between the Crawleys and the *orphan* she was taking into her family.

Edited March 1, 2015 by ZoloftBlob

[Andorra]

Also do we know edith didn't pay support? I don't think so.

 

 

Actuallly we know Edith payed monthly support for Marigold, it's part of the agreement she has with Mr. Drewe. It's mentioned in the CS 2013, when she talks to Mr. Drewe about taking Marigold.

 

Margie Drewe probably didn't know about this though. Wives usually had no idea back then about financial issues, it was considered the husband's responsibility.

 

I'm right in the middle of this conflict. I think Margie Drewe was used badly, but I agree that not all of this was Edith's fault. And I also think that good intentions not always save people from getting hurt. IMO it's the case in this story. Mr. Drewe wanted to do the right thing, Edith wanted to do the right thing and Mrs. Drewe wanted to do the right thing. No one was deliberately out to hurt the other and still they did.

 

In the end I'm still thinking that Marigold belongs to Edith more than she does to Mrs Drewe.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Andorra

[lucindabelle]

I understand it.

But so what?

It would absolutely have been kidnapping. Edith never formally gave up that child, she didn't know thatut mr drewe did and hed have been a party to it,

And I'm sorry, upset or not you do not have the right to destroy a legal document. Down that road vigilantism lied,

What is acceptable is not to me to decide but I can certainly say that outing edith for spite and ripping up a legal document is NOT acceptable.

I can also understand when girlfriends key cars or call wives. And I find that unacceptable too and the so does the law wrt the formerl feeling strongly about something doesn't give you the right to act out. It just doesn't. How she then aphad does her anger and disappointment is up to her. We all have disappointments and an her in this world, believe ing you have to make someone somewhere pay for them? That's what children believe. It actually isn't true, she can yell at her husband, so far as I can tell he's the only one who owes her anything.

She went to fora for no other reason than to vent and hopefully get edith in trouble and perhaps even ask for money, it's shabby. I do not believe for a second it had anything to do with the welfare of the child.

Edited March 2, 2015 by lucindabelle

[ZoloftBlob]

It would absolutely have been kidnapping. Edith never formally gave up that child, she didn't know thatut mr drewe did and hed have been a party to it,

I think you're playing with semantics. When Edith left her child with the Schroeders in Switzerland, did  she *intend* to go back and get the child a month later? When she gave the child to the Drewe family, did she leave the impression it was temporary? Now that she's taken Marigold *Drewe* into her home as her ward and *not* as her blood daughter, has she been willing to enter the public record as Edith Crawley, *birth mother* of Marigold?

 

There's a reason the child was born in Switzerland - it was to sully the record keeping so Edith could deny her if needed. For a child that was never formally given up, Edith sure doesn't want anyone to know Marigold is hers. I mean, believe me, I get that it's awkward and painful for Edith, but really, if you're calling Mrs. Drewe a kidnapper for caring for Edith's child for a year when Edith point blank gave the child away then we're obviously at an impass because no, when Edith handed over her child to the Schroeders and the Drewes, I don't think either family was left with the impression that it was temporary and stating their caring for the child Edith left with them was a crime is pretty unfair.

[jordanpond]

I'm re-watching the season and something jumped out at me. The first time around I was so appalled at the things Larry Grey was saying, that it didn't even dawn on me that the Crawley family members themselves have, at one time or another, said every single thing that Larry said, with one notable exception.

The chauffer? Every Crawley family member has treated him as unworthy. The only time Edith and Mary ever joined forces for more than the length of a song was to try to prevent Sybil from eloping with Tom, and Mary also said some nasty things about him. Robert tried to bribe Tom to break up with Sybil, and neither Robert nor Cora attended the wedding of their daughter to this chauffer. And in the Christmas special, five years after marrying into the family, Violet was still referring to him by his servant title, Branson.

The middle class? Mary did everything from bluntly telling Matthew he was not "our kind of people" to referring to him as the "sea monster" who was not worthy of marrying the "princess."

Age differences between spouses? Well, I think we all recall what Robert and Violet did to break up the marriage between Edith and the injured, much older Anthony.

The only exception? No one ever made an unkind comment about Jews. If it wasn't for the infusion of the Jewish Mr. Levinson 's fortune into the property-rich but cash-poor Downton Abbey estate, Robert would have long ago had to move out of the abbey, start combing his own hair, and learn how to step into his underpants without assistance.

Edited April 11, 2015 by jordanpond

[Bec]

I'm finally getting around to watching this, and all I can think is Mrs. Drewe would have been a lot more understanding about the whole situation if they told her the truth in the first place instead of keeping her out of the loop. As soon as Mr. Drewe said he was going to lie to his wife about where the child came from, I was like "well, this is never going to end well." And sure enough, Mrs. Drewe could sense Mr. Drewe and Edith were being dishonest about something, but she didn't know what it was, and it just about drove her crazy with worry.

 

I feel so sorry for Mrs. Drewe that she was put through this emotional wringer because her idiot husband and stupid Edith didn't think she could handle the truth or whatever. What, did they think she was going to blab it around town? I don't think she would have. Mrs. Drewe took some stranger's kid into her home and loved this kid like her own, when she already had a whole pack of kids to raise, so I really don't think she's a spiteful person at heart.

 

I know, I know, she went straight to Cora after she found out the truth, but I don't hold that against her since she just found out she was jerked around and fed a bunch of lies for a year. And whose fault is that? Mr. Drewe and Edith's. This wouldn't have happened if they've been honest with Mrs. Drewe from the start.

 

And after all of this, to add insult to injury, the public story is going to be that Mrs. Drewe can't handle taking care of the child and that's why Edith is taking her in. Poor Mrs. Drewe. She doesn't deserve so much crap.