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S02.E15: Forbidden


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NOTE: Reign airs on Wednesdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Thursday night to view the new episode.



Mary's mother returns to warn her about threats to her throne, so Mary makes a daring move. Meanwhile, a stumbling block with Mary pushes Francis closer to Lola; and Kenna receives an intriguing offer from Antoine.


American Promo:



Canadian Promo:


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OMG why so much focus on Condé and his blasted brother? I don't care about Mary and Francis all that much but having them both leering at other people is just annoying.


So much crap to sit through, then there was that wee scene of Lola and Narcisse in the hallway and I was entranced. Sigh.


Edit also love Greer as a Madam. She is more take charge than Mary ;)

Edited by brisbydog
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Well, that was gross and I feel gross for having watched it.


Except for High!Lola. She was a delight.


It's just UGH. MARY. IS. SO. STUPID. How is it not possible for her to see that the only power she has comes from her being married to Francis? Since her marriage she's done exactly one thing for the Scottish people and that's destroy a contract no one ever heard about. Her own mother and Regent have been deposed by a Protestant Council -- what, Mary's just supposed to march in and break them up? And even if she could, she'd need an army of the French at her back. And sure, Francis might have been willing to send her back with help, but she thinks he'll support claim while she marches her lover along with her?


I mean, she doesn't even get that her power in France only comes from Francis loving her. The French-Scottish alliance is a bust; Scotland is turning protestant while France has been burning Protestants left and right. They actually want to work with Elizabeth. Francis is getting absolutely nothing from Scotland except a wife he loves that isn't giving him a chance while she moons after his cousin. Screw history, if she tries to go back to Scotland I hope Francis goes for an annulment, ships her off by herself and marries Lola, legitimizing his son. Narcisse was right, he should have married a girl with money, not political issues.


Having gotten that out of my system: I love Greer as High-Class Madame. But what, did she lose her hairbrush?


When Kenna came to deliver that ruby back to Antoine, I was positive that she accepted his invitation to make up the party because she noticed something fishy. She kept looking behind her; I felt like maybe she was trying to spy. Maybe she is. In any case after Henry I think she knows a lot better than to trust kings.

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Kenna was beyond stupid this episode, naive and really dumb to let herself be played like this. Just the way she behaves in public and carried on with the clothes and jewels did she really really think that was appropriate for the woman married to the King's brother?


Mary? Another stupid one for so many reasons. 


High Lola was the best part. She made Francis smile.Loved her with Narcisse too.

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Was this the first episode this season without the opening sequence? Was the Woman In White supposed to be a historical figure or a plot point to warn Bash of doom? Will Mary finally return to Scotland? Will there be plaid? (Or, will we remain in France, and have a visit from Liz? And, if so, will Conde be the man who makes her decide to be the Virgin Queen due to his negative charisma?) So many questions!

   Also, not that anyone in this show has ever had the appropriate entourage, but I laughed when Narcisse ordered that Lola have a guard only one scene after Francis had ordered the same thing, only to have Lola wandering around unaccompanied as usual.

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Mary is tiring. Deciding on one man over another does not make one independent and in charge of one's destiny. Lola acted like she was on Ecstasy rather than narcotics or opiates. I like Narcisse, honorable or not.

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Did anyone catch the preview shown after? Mary and Conde on the run just like mary and bash in season one. And we know they come back. But something tells me conde won't let go. They've totally merged him with Bothwell. 


Mary's an idiot and I know this will all blow up in her face and I'm PISSED they're going to have francis take her back when it happens. Why the heavens who he want her again after this? but I know they're going to force them back together and it irks my spirit.


Lola was the best thing about this episode....STRANGE

Edited by dirtypop90
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So one might assume we are now in 1559 or thereabouts. Francis should have less than a year to live. Does history matter anymore though? I feel like Condé is now Bothwell and maybe they will kill Francis and make it look like an ear infection. God it hurts when you know the history involved. Crazy to think Catherine outlives everybody, including Mary.


I feel a Narcisse/Lola/Francis triangle coming on. DNWx1000000000

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There are people that don't enjoy mary and francis and still don't like what's happening on the show. The show should have stuck to the fact that mary's life in france was mostly happy and carefree and then moved on to scotland. I don't understand blurring her life in france and scotland. It's not working. Plus, Mary being a mess in scotland was because of her naivety and lack of experience due to her charmed life in france. Since they've thrown so much at her in france, when she goes to scotland and becomes a greater screw up, people will just go, oh well she's just an idiot. 


When I think about the state of the show, I always wonder what was the original showrunners plan? Since she came up with the idea and knew her MQoS history, but left due to creative differences with laurie m. Because Reign has such a different feel to it now than when it began. And I can't help but think she had better plans for this show. I really don't think the current showrunner knows what she's doing and is just plucking random things from history. I bet she doesn't even know Mary and Conde are more closely related than francis and conde.

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Crazy to think Catherine outlives everybody, including Mary


After what we've seen from Catherine and this band of fools, I think it's about the only sane thing on the show.


What bothers me isn't Mary wanting to move on with Conde in light of the rape, as traumatic events often lead to unforeseen fallout (such as a devoted married couple getting divorced after losing a child or a rape victim becoming promiscuous as a way to regain control in the bedroom), but that this is taking place during the actual time period.  I don't know nearly as much about Mary of Scotland as I do Catherine but even I know that Mary cheating on her husband, a king of a powerful nation, in his own country, is the mark of the massively stupid.  I know Francis is supposed to be a good guy who wants what's best for Mary but I'm still shocked that he didn't order Conde's execution and declare war on Scotland right then.  I also know that so many of Mary's choices in this series are to set the stage for her ultimate fate, as the real Mary was really bad at politics too, so I get why we see stories like this one (and I fully expect Mary to have another "I love Francis more" realization, before falling for another guy next season).  I just wish, if they were going to present Mary of Scotland, whose real life fate is the only thing that probably 99% of the viewing audience even knows about her, then they should have just taken the story and characters and plunked them down into a modern setting.  Then they'd be free to have Mary fall for as many men as she pleased without me wondering why Francis isn't ordering executions and wars.   


The cut of Kenna's dress during the proposal scene at the end made her look like she was in the early stages of pregnancy.  I know she isn't as Caitlin isn't and Bash would certainly be aware of a bump since they had sexytimes a few weeks ago, but the dress made it look that way.  It was distracting and I almost missed that silly proposal that I'm fully sure Antoine has no intention of keeping should she accept. 

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Huh. I renew my criticism from the previous episode thread, which is I cannot understand Mary's feelings in all this. I understand Francis' feelings, and I kind of understand (I guess) Conde's, but Mary's motivation remains a mystery. The show seemed to do one of those things where it makes sense on the surface, but when you start to really examine it, it makes no sense. Mary is returning to Scotland to rule since her mother is dying -- totally get it. Bringing Conde along with her -- totally don't get it. My question is why? And...how?! It'd be one thing if Conde was her guard, so they could have a secret love affair that way, but I don't see how she steps on Scottish soil, all "I'm your queen. And this is...some Protestant prince dude from France who's totally not my lover." I mean, come up with a cover story that sounds halfway plausible, but cuckolded husbands tend to lead to useless queens. I guess she's counting on Francis not to be mad because of his guilt? Or...something?


Character motivation by the writers would've been helpful, because fanwanking is exhausting.

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