Rory and Logan

[Aloeonatable]

8 hours ago, CheeseBurgh said:

To be fair he is an actor.  He makes his living in the fantasy world which Gilmore Girls is part of. It is his opinion about a fake person he plays in a fake community. I found his thoughts to be interesting.

Actors are to portray the character on the page. Of course they interpret, and can add a dimension to their portrayal, but they cannot change the story. Matt was actually saying that Logan should not marry Odette, but run away with Rory, the love of his life. That isn't what was written, or IMO, portrayed by Alexis or Matt. Sadly, neither he nor we had any idea what Odette was really like or the real reason he chose to marry her and keep Rory as his mistress. Again, if Rory was indeed the love of his life, then it would have been written so, but it wasn't. I guess MC didn't like ASP's story which is understandable as both Logan and Rory came off as not very likable.

[tarotx]

Rory isn't Logan's mistress. She his friend with Benefits. Perhaps she would have been his mistress if she would have taken the Maine house but she doesn't and Logan did give her the option of having it with no strings attached. He's never actually married during the revival. And engagements in fiction are not as much a guarantee of marriage that they are in real life.  Imo both Matt and Alexis play their relationship as star-crossed lovers. And for this revival, it doesn't matter who or what Odette is because she's just a plot device to make it impossible for Logan&Rory to be together. Rory and Logan don't communicate their feelings because they have this star-crossed restriction that they self-imposed. The reason they imposed "Vegas" is something left to our imagination. We can take it any way we want until there are more stories created.

Actors do portray what's on the page but the directors are there as well. Amy and Dan wrote and Directed each of these episodes.

[Aloeonatable]

1 hour ago, tarotx said:

Rory isn't Logan's mistress. She his friend with Benefits. Perhaps she would have been his mistress if she would have taken the Maine house but she doesn't and Logan did give her the option of having it with no strings attached. He's never actually married during the revival. And engagements in fiction are not as much a guarantee of marriage that they are in real life.  Imo both Matt and Alexis play their relationship as star-crossed lovers. And for this revival, it doesn't matter who or what Odette is because she's just a plot device to make it impossible for Logan&Rory to be together. Rory and Logan don't communicate their feelings because they have this star-crossed restriction that they self-imposed. The reason they imposed "Vegas" is something left to our imagination. We can take it any way we want until there are more stories created.

Actors do portray what's on the page but the directors are there as well. Amy and Dan wrote and Directed each of these episodes.

Friend with benefits, mistress, side-piece, whatever you want to call her, what she isn't is his future. Logan has always been generous with giving Rory whatever she needed at the time whether it was a helicopter, limo,etc.  All material goods. I think we have to take it as Logan seems to take it that he is engaged to Odette, as it was written. Unfair to call her simply a plot device just because she wasn't fleshed out. Not sure what you mean by "this star-crossed restriction that they self-imposed." If you mean they both chose to cheat on their significant other, then ok. 

[NumberCruncher]

1 hour ago, tarotx said:

Actors do portray what's on the page but the directors are there as well. Amy and Dan wrote and Directed each of these episodes.

These are exactly my same thoughts on the matter.  Matt and Alexis played their roles beyond just a simple friends with benefits arrangement.  You could see the hesitation on both of their faces in the LDB and goodbye scenes.  I highly doubt ASP would have allowed that to happen if she meant it to be a meaningless fling.  She held all the power over how the actors are portrayed as the director so even if by some nefarious means Matt and Alexis tried to go beyond the Palladino's script and add feelings that weren't there, Dan and Amy both had the power to veto what the actors were doing.  They simply didn't choose to do so and therefore I can only conclude that they were completely okay with it.

Edited December 7, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Aloeonatable]

Of course it wasn't just a "meaningless fling." Logan and Rory obviously enjoyed their romance, but I still hesitate to call her the love of his life if he won't break his engagement. I read, prior to the show, that Rory and Logan would find closure and to me they did.

[NumberCruncher]

2 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Of course it wasn't just a "meaningless fling." Logan and Rory obviously enjoyed their romance, but I still hesitate to call her the love of his life if he won't break his engagement. I read, prior to the show, that Rory and Logan would find closure and to me they did.

That's your interpretation but that doesn't mean Matt can't have his too.  And yes, even Matt acknowledges that it was a mutual goodbye.  No one was disputing that.  The characters have said goodbye multiple times before and they still ended up right back into bed together so anything is possible.  If Rory keeps the baby and the Palladinos reveal it is Logan's then who knows if the goodbye will, in fact, stick should more episodes appear.  We simply don't know at this point.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

36 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Friend with benefits, mistress, side-piece, whatever you want to call her, what she isn't is his future. Logan has always been generous with giving Rory whatever she needed at the time whether it was a helicopter, limo,etc.  All material goods. I think we have to take it as Logan seems to take it that he is engaged to Odette, as it was written. Unfair to call her simply a plot device just because she wasn't fleshed out. Not sure what you mean by "this star-crossed restriction that they self-imposed." If you mean they both chose to cheat on their significant other, then ok. 

He didn't just give her material things, he was always emotionally available to her. In the original he supported he for months when she dropped out even though he didn't like it, he was the first at the hospital when Richard suffered his first heart attack and Rory was blasting his phone in stressful times during the revival.

I get not being into something but facts are undeniable.

[NumberCruncher]

55 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

He didn't just give her material things, he was always emotionally available to her. In the original he supported he for months when she dropped out even though he didn't like it, he was the first at the hospital when Richard suffered his first heart attack and Rory was blasting his phone in stressful times during the revival.

I get not being into something but facts are undeniable.

Yeah, I've never understood everything that gets ignored regarding Logan's treatment of Rory and what was canonically portrayed on the show.  He didn't just give her stuff.  He was shown throughout his active seasons as caring for both Rory and her success.  While he was definitely a flawed character in the revival, Logan was also a pretty damn good boyfriend to her back in the original series.  Just adding to your above list Logan also:

• Was shown multiple times providing input on Rory's written works when asked so as to help her writing skills to improve
• Encouraged Rory not just to take the first reporter job offered to her right out of college and instead try for what he knew she really wanted (i.e. the NY Times fellowship) 
• Gladly stepped in to help when Rory and the rest of the staff when they were struggling to get the Yale Daily News issued
• Was constantly cheerleading Rory whenever she put down her abilities both in school and as she tried to enter the career world
• Flew back and forth to/from London to see her while they were separated during her last year of Yale.
• Was shown as making sure Rory was emotionally comfortable before engaging in sexual relations
• Sought Lorelai's permission to marry Rory knowing that would be important to her

I, too, am not trying to sell Logan as a favorite or make people Rory/Logan shippers (because frankly I don't care what people like or don't) but can we at least acknowledge real plot points as they were portrayed on our TV screens?  Their relationship was hardly perfect and there were plenty of stupid mistakes made all around but there was also a hell of a lot more good there than I think a lot of people are willing to admit for whatever reason or another.

Edited December 7, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[tarotx]

56 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Friend with benefits, mistress, side-piece, whatever you want to call her, what she isn't is his future. Logan has always been generous with giving Rory whatever she needed at the time whether it was a helicopter, limo,etc.  All material goods. I think we have to take it as Logan seems to take it that he is engaged to Odette, as it was written. Unfair to call her simply a plot device just because she wasn't fleshed out. Not sure what you mean by "this star-crossed restriction that they self-imposed." If you mean they both chose to cheat on their significant other, then ok. 

 

If anything Logan is the one not Fleshed out since we don't hear his pov during the revival.  Odette is a plot device since all we know is she is engaged to Logan. The engaged part of her is the only thing that matters about her as of right now. She is just here to be a viable block for Logan and Rory from being a true couple. She's not a character herself. 

In the revival, Rory talks with Logan about her ups and downs in life. She asks him career advice and he gives it. He encourages her and tries to prepare her for how working with the Alex Kingston character might turn out. He is there to hear her vent. She can call at all hours. It's not all material. He asked about her relationship with her mom and encourages her to write her book. 

Rory and Logan have this 'together when they are together and not when they are not agreement'. It's a self-imposed restriction but we have no idea what brought it on and where either were at when the agreement was agreed upon. Because this info is unknown it means what we know about their relationship is limited. 

For me, the way they talk and have fun with each other, makes Logan being engaged and Rory not breaking up with Paul seem out of place.  Especially when you add back in their relationship from the original series. Yes even if you remove season 7.

For me, the Goodbye scene was closure if they want it to be closure. It was very bittersweet. Matt talking about Rory being the Love of Logan's life isn't just about the revival but the series as well. I can see in the performance that is how Logan feels. Matt didn't have to interact with Odette and we didn't get to see it. All Matt knows is his relationship with Rory so his take on and of the character is based on this. 

[Aloeonatable]

Quote

For me, the Goodbye scene was closure if they want it to be closure. It was very bittersweet. Matt talking about Rory being the Love of Logan's life isn't just about the revival but the series as well. I can see in the performance that is how Logan feels. Matt didn't have to interact with Odette and we didn't get to see it. All Matt knows is his relationship with Rory so his take on and of the character is based on this. 

Ok, we've been around this tree enough. All I wanted to convey, and of course what I write is my opinion and not fact, is that if Logan really loved Rory he would commit to her and not another woman. I never denied that he once loved her and wanted to get married, but we've been discussing the revival. 

[tarotx]

34 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Ok, we've been around this tree enough. All I wanted to convey, and of course what I write is my opinion and not fact, is that if Logan really loved Rory he would commit to her and not another woman. I never denied that he once loved her and wanted to get married, but we've been discussing the revival. 

 

 

 

You said Matt lives in a fantasy world because he doesn't agree with your opinion.  And I was telling you why he could have his opinion. He watched every episode to help him get back into the role. He talked with Amy&Dan. 

Edited December 7, 2016 by tarotx

[Miss Slay]

Matt said that Rory is the love of Logan's life but he also said that Logan loves Rory more than she loves him. As an actor, he is speaking from Logan's point of view. 

I don't think Matt lives in a fantasy world at all. When he says things like "Logan loves Rory because she doesn't need anything from him and that makes him want to do everything for her." It's true! For example, in season 6 Logan gets Rory a birkin bag. Rory likes it because Logan gave it to her - but she has no idea what a birken bag is. She is not a materialistic person and I think Logan loved that about her. She wouldn't be the type of gf to beg for designer bags.

I appreciate hearing Matt and Alexis' points of view on their characters because they've spent a lot of time with these characters and know them in a way the audience can't.

[photo fox]

I think Matt Czuchry is just doing what a lot of the audience - especially the Rogan audience - is doing.  He's trying to take Logan's character growth that we saw in the regular series and incorporate it with the writing for the revival, and come up with something that makes any kind of sense.  If his interpretation of the writing doesn't match up with ASP's, then maybe she should have given him and Alexis (not to mention the audience!) some kind of backstory and motivation.  By all accounts she didn't, so that's on her, IMO.  I feel like she kind of left the two of them out to dry, and both of them played it as tender/star-crossed lovers, and now they're having to back-pedal in interviews.  I feel like Alexis has done that, while Matt has been quicker to defend his acting and interpretation.  (He seems overall more career-focused, so it doesn't surprise me that he's been more vocal.  Or maybe he's just weary of playing apologist for showrunners after being on TGW for seven seasons.  But he's definitely giving off a vibe.)

Frankly, I think I would have vastly preferred a Rogan in the revival as written by MC, versus what we got.  I think ASP was too tied to her Lorelai/Christopher = Rory/Logan "full circle" and her obstinance about S7, and both their characters suffered for it. 

[NumberCruncher]

I basically agree with your assessment, @photo fox, but I also fall back on the previously discussed point that regardless of ASP's inability to write adequate character motivation in the revival she still didn't protest how the actors interpreted and portrayed it as she was directing their scenes.  I don't know if that amounts to her simply being a subpar director in addition to being a questionable screenwriter or whether she intended the characters to come off as still being in love with each other.  Regardless it has definitely created a whole slew of inconsistencies between the original series (even in those seasons she wrote) and the revival.

As you say Matt has plenty of practice being as diplomatic as possible when it comes to crappy storylines for his characters on both TGW and GG.  He genuinely seems thankful and deferential to any showrunner who gives him career opportunities so even if Matt really took issue with the writing for his character he likely wouldn't say so.  Come to think of it, I've never seen the man be anything but happy in interviews.  Could all be for show or maybe he's just that nice.  Either way it's smart.

Edited December 7, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I think the writing (non committal and cheating) in the revival was inconsistent with the show but the acting wasn't? Even if you disregard S7, S6 ended with them in love and saying a tearful goodbye promising to see each other as much as they can. If S7 is disregarded and the turned down didn't happen, then it makes no sense that they'll be screwing all over the world while seeing different people. I hate that they left so much to the imagination with regards to their affair in the revival.

AB and MC played Rory and Logan as still loving each other and doing the long distance thing as they would've if the show ended in S6. They didn't play it as whatever ASP intended. Which is mystery to me because I've yet to read her take on them in the revival. 

[NumberCruncher]

5 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I think the writing (non committal and cheating) in the revival was inconsistent with the show but the acting wasn't? Even if you disregard S7, S6 ended with them in love and saying a tearful goodbye promising to see each other as much as they can. If S7 is disregarded and the turned down didn't happen, then it makes no sense that they'll be screwing all over the world while seeing different people. I hate that they left so much to the imagination with regards to their affair in the revival.

AB and MC played Rory and Logan as still loving each other and doing the long distance thing as they would've if the show ended in S6. They didn't play it as whatever ASP intended. Which is mystery to me because I've yet to read her take on them in the revival. 

Oh I agree with you.  When I said there were inconsistencies I meant in ASP's writing, not in Alexis's and Matt's performances.  They were shown to be in love in both the original episodes and the revival (I know the latter is debatable to some).  However, your point is still valid that there was still an inconsistency even if we disregard S7 because ASP left Logan and Rory together relationship-wise at the end of S6 despite being physically separated.  The revival hinted that their Vegas arrangement hadn't been going on all 9 years so something broke them up but apparently the Palladinos were too lazy to write an explanation so it's all guess work.  It doesn't surprise me since Amy hates the whole Rory's relationships subject but it definitely makes for a frustrating viewing experience trying to make sense of all the plot holes.

[tarotx]

I see paper moment showing how cute they are as a newspaper couple.  Logan did ask if Rory wanted to move in with him. She needed a place to stay and was already at his apartment half of the time and already had drawers. It was a cute moment.

The proposal was out of the blue especially after coming off 7.18. 

But Logan makes grand gestures and big productions. It's his plus and negative. He has his own light and energy. (Which Christopher never really showed he had imo. He steals Lorelai's). I still say Logan not coming back after a short spell is what would be out of character. He would have missed Rory and did some production to show he missed her or to cheer her up. They come together and break up but never for long.

Yes, Logan is the Boy Rory can't quit but I don't think she should :p Especially before the revival. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by tarotx

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

 

IMO it wasn't the first time.  Examples I remember include him saving their relationship by helping her save the Yale Daily News on a deadline (using the Huntzberger name), inviting her to move in with him after Paris kicked her out of their apartment, and asking her to go to Martha's Vineyard for Valentine's Day (they agreed she would invite Lorelai and Luke). Much of their relationship involved Rory going along with what Logan (and the LDB) had planned. 

I agree about them needing a quick ending for a series drama. She says no to marriage  they could try long-distance, he says no and "Goodbye Rory" and just walks away looking disappointed. Neither one looks like they're about to burst into tears over this relationship being over after all the "I love you" to each other and his public proposal that he wanted to be with her always. Very abrupt ending. 

 

Replying Bringonthedrama 

The reason Rory did things with the LBD in the beginning was because she was writing about their society. She wanted to be included included in their activities and Logan humored her. It wasn't always about work as is evidence with the the Chinese dinner and yes, Logan asked her to go, he even insisted. She always could've said no. Her reluctance was obviously for Marty's sake -- who put on a brave face and gave his consent. 

Inviting her to share his home with him when she was kicked out by her befriend is a bad thing? I am glad you used the word "invite".

Logan was excited to share his life with her and got over zealous. He's always done those public grand gestures so it wasn't out of character for him. I still maintain that he should've saved them both the heartache of doing it in public but that is how sure he was of their relationship.

I personally think they looked devastated. Keep in mind too that Rory still had to put on a brave face to get through the rest of her graduation. 

[Bringonthedrama]

On 12/7/2016 at 4:44 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I think the writing (non committal and cheating) in the revival was inconsistent with the show but the acting wasn't? Even if you disregard S7, S6 ended with them in love and saying a tearful goodbye promising to see each other as much as they can. If S7 is disregarded and the turned down didn't happen, then it makes no sense that they'll be screwing all over the world while seeing different people. I hate that they left so much to the imagination with regards to their affair in the revival.

AB and MC played Rory and Logan as still loving each other and doing the long distance thing as they would've if the show ended in S6. They didn't play it as whatever ASP intended. Which is mystery to me because I've yet to read her take on them in the revival. 

I also hate that so much was left to the imagination regarding their affair in the revival. I wanted to know how they got into this "Vegas" arrangement. The audience saw Logan propose to Rory -regardless of what his dad wanted - right before she graduated. (ASP deciding to ignore that history is a really poor choice.) It does NOT make any sense for a formerly serious couple to backtrack to such an arrangement years later without a, or several, really good reasons. 

AB played it more like Rory was in love with Logan, but telling herself she was fine with their 'not truly together' situation because Logan wasn't going to commit. I was disgusted once I realized she hadn't broken up with Paul, and never thought of him.

While Matt may believe Logan is in love with Rory, I didn't really see that conveyed in the acting or the writing. Logan didn't look at her like he couldn't live without her. I didn't hear heavy emotion in his voice. He tried to avoid letting her know when Odette was visiting, and then moving in with him.  Their last scenes at that B&B seemed to imply that Logan would miss the companionship and sex they had going on (easy due to their history) - not that the great love of his life was walking away. No eyes turning reddish, or tears welling up. 

In the revival, we never once heard him say "I love you" nor was it implied he whispered it to her. He never said a word about longing to have a real relationship with her (again) and get out of his engagement to Odette. No line like "Wish we were planning a future, instead. Wish we could talk about having kids someday" when she asked him if he still intended to marry Odette. I thought AB played that like she was giving Logan an opportunity to say he loved her and would be willing to end his engagement.

He never had a look of regret on his face about being engaged. I noticed during that brief lunch scene that Mitchum did not imply that Logan was doing his family duty by getting engaged, or that he cared one iota about Logan's choice of wife. He said Logan "got himself engaged."

Maybe ASP wanted Logan to continue to be that guy from Season 5, who wanted to enjoy life (including women) before taking on the future his father had planned for him. Yet in the revival he is not 22, obeying his father so he can make it in the big world as a young college grad. Early/mid-30s Logan appears to be working and successful, have enough money for a nice apartment, to go out and enjoy lunches and get-aways, etc. So the "dynastic plan" line rang false to me.

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Replying Bringonthedrama 

The reason Rory did things with the LBD in the beginning was because she was writing about their society. She wanted to be included included in their activities and Logan humored her. It wasn't always about work as is evidence with the the Chinese dinner and yes, Logan asked her to go, he even insisted. She always could've said no. Her reluctance was obviously for Marty's sake -- who put on a brave face and gave his consent. 

Inviting her to share his home with him when she was kicked out by her befriend is a bad thing? I am glad you used the word "invite".

Logan was excited to share his life with her and got over zealous. He's always done those public grand gestures so it wasn't out of character for him.

My response was a rebuttal to 'Logan's proposal is the first time he took the lead in their relationship.'  She was not leading their relationship and/or making the decisions for the two of them. I used the Chinese dinner, the LBD adventures and asking her to move in as examples because she was not the one to suggest going out, or to make the big jump with the umbrellas. Nor did she pressure him to say 'move in with me.' I didn't think it was a bad thing for him to ask her to share his home.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Interesting article that draws parallel between Rory/Logan and Emily/Richard. They raised so many points I've never considered.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/gilmore-girls-fans-rory-and-logan-theory-will-disturb-you-w452399

Like Emily and Richard meeting when Richard was engaged and Rory/Logan being together while he was engaged in the revival.

 

The men fighting for their relationship despite their mothers dislike for their mates. Trixie never treated Emily well and Logan's mother was none too pleased with his choice in Rory. I can't say one way or another about Mitchum, his goal is for Logan to step into his role as the heir, I think he only cares when his personal life interferes.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Interesting article that draws parallel between Rory/Logan and Emily/Richard. They raised so many points I've never considered.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/gilmore-girls-fans-rory-and-logan-theory-will-disturb-you-w452399

Like Emily and Richard meeting when Richard was engaged and Rory/Logan being together while he was engaged in the revival.

 

The men fighting for their relationship despite their mothers dislike for their mates. Trixie never treated Emily well and Logan's mother was none too pleased with his choice in Rory. 

It is interesting, and while there are some similarities, I don't agree with the author. The Yale background is an obvious similarity. However, I remember Logan's mother specifically told Logan and Rory at the family dinner that Rory was the wrong fit for the family because she  "wasn't raised that way," i.e. like Emily, able/expecting and wanting to take on full-time social/status responsibilities that would come with being High Society Wife. Emily had told her that Rory wanted to be a journalist/career woman. Later when Emily confronted her about what she's said to Logan and Rory, there was also a line implying that the Gilmore Family wealth was beneath their family's wealth. That's what prompted Emily to call her out for being a cocktail waitress when Mitchum met her. 

Logan has "fun Chris" in him, and in the revival, the Chris tendency to not be upfront and honest with Rory. I recently re-watched Rory's "Coming out" to High Society episode, where Christopher does not behave like a platonic friend toward Lorelai. He dances with her in Patty's studio, is flirty, and doesn't pull away from her light kiss on the lips...then says he has to get back because he has a live-in girlfriend. My brain thought, "Logan behavior." It reminded me of Logan acting boyfriendish - but then she says she's open to staying with him in London, or staying longer ... and his responses or silence clue her in that she's not the top priority as Logan has given her the impression. He acknowledges that yes, Odette is visiting and staying with him. Then later -yes, Odette has moved in. (We even see 'Odette' asleep in the bed in the middle of the night, when he's sitting on the edge of the bed, with the nightstand light on, talking to Rory on his cell phone.) 

Also, when Lorelai and Chris were briefly married, Chris had a line that he felt like he'd been asking Lor to marry him for 20(?) years and I thought "puh-lease" because it had been established he'd bounced from gf to gf, and then moved to Boston so Sherry wouldn't break up with him. Then he and Lorelai slept together before Sookie's wedding because he figured it was probably over between him and Sherry. We know he went back and married Sherry because she was pregnant. A guy who behaves like this, IMO, wasn't madly in love w/Lor and wanting to marry her all that time. I got that same impression from Logan in the revival, where his actions do not say "love of my life." I find Revival version of Logan more comparable to Series version of Chris, because Chris was supposed to be early/mid-30s at that time.  

Logan is comparable to Richard because of his family's wealth, and his own ambition and career drive. Logan has interests/intellect like Richard.  By his own admission, Chris envied that Lorelai knew what she wanted and went after that. At about age 50, Chris "caved and went into the family biz." As far as we know, Richard was unlike Chris and Logan in that he always loved and was faithful to Emily. There weren't any hints that he'd ever had an affair. I don't think that 32-year-old Rory sleeping with her ex while he's engaged is at all comparable to college-age Edward, in a relationship with Pennylyn, falling in love with Emily, breaking up with Pennylyn, and marrying Emily. Rory knew quite well what they were doing was wrong/deceitful/sleazy, otherwise she wouldn't have lied to Lorelai, then looked ashamed when she confessed and Lorelai was all 'isn't he engaged?' and 'being with Logan is more slutty than sleeping with a wookie.'

[hippielamb]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:46 PM, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Interesting article that draws parallel between Rory/Logan and Emily/Richard. They raised so many points I've never considered.

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/gilmore-girls-fans-rory-and-logan-theory-will-disturb-you-w452399

Like Emily and Richard meeting when Richard was engaged and Rory/Logan being together while he was engaged in the revival.

 

The men fighting for their relationship despite their mothers dislike for their mates. Trixie never treated Emily well and Logan's mother was none too pleased with his choice in Rory. I can't say one way or another about Mitchum, his goal is for Logan to step into his role as the heir, I think he only cares when his personal life interferes.

That reminds me of this:  (sorry I don't know how to embed images here)

http://m.imgur.com/sXqkNP9

It's an interesting article, and I agree with some points. I don't agree that Richard and Emily weren't in love though. If they were just partners who supported each other, the jealousy on both sides wouldn't have existed. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

I've often gone back to use their first time as a "push back" when I respond to a poster saying that Logan doesn't care about Rory's feelings or that he is an entitled brat who demands she does what he wants. This article better articulates my perception of their relationship. 

I am posting only the Logan part of the article 

Quote

Sex, Consent, and Gilmore Girls: A Closer Look at Rory’s Boyfriends

My choice is often not a popular one, which is fine by me. But it got me thinking: why do I feel so strongly against the popular views, when I understand why the popular views are as they are. Even when other people agree with me, it is for different reasons. In order to figure this out, I re-watched the seven seasons not once, not twice, but three times in the last year, until I was able to catch the difference. Let me explain.

Each boyfriend loves Rory, likely loves Rory more than she loves him. And each displays this in a unique way to him and consistent manner. Only one of them shows her love in a way that sets her free, always asking for her consent and never expecting her to be more to him than she is to herself. This can be seen in the first six seasons, with the seventh, after creator Amy Sherman-Palladino left the show, allowing all the characters to be more defined by their trappings than their inner compass.

Logan is drawn to Rory because she is a strong independent woman, and is willing to support what she needs when she needs it. Similarly, he wants to make his own choices and lives his life even as he does everything he can to give Rory what she wants. He asks her if she is sure several times in the process of getting together. After they break up, and he is working to get her back, he does many things to win her back, but never something she has asked him not to. Further, he waits for her to be ready to go out with her, or even to hug her. Like Dean and Jess, Logan is madly in love with Rory. Unlike the first two, Logan is willing to love Rory on her terms.

Another similar article about What ‘Gilmore Girls’ Can Teach Us About Consent 

Edited January 24, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[whateverhappened]

I would really love to hear what people love best about Rory x Logan and your favorite scenes between them. I'm about to start rewatching Season 5 and want to keep a much more open mind about him and them this time around. 

What season did people like Rory x Logan the best? Most fans I know seem to love them most in either S5 or S7. Logan and their relationship seemed more mature in Season 7 but also more dynamic and vibrant in Season 5, so I could see either choice. I'm sure they had a lot of moments in Season 6 that people like a lot too, but almost no one came off their best during that season! 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On December 2, 2016 at 10:14 AM, absnow54 said:

I could have sworn there was a Logan thread, but couldn't find it, so I'll post here. I'd never thought of Logan as Rory's Christopher until ASP started calling him that leading into the revival, and watching the revival, it was obvious in the scene between Rory and Christopher that they were trying to push that, but I didn't make the connection while watching the original series. However, the episode where Christopher first visits Stars Hollow in season 1 was on last night. The one where he rides in on a motorcycle and tries to buy Rory's love with expensive gifts and charms the top off of Lorelai and is the golden boy in Richard and Emily's eye even though his business deal is failing, and I thought, Yes. This is how I picture Logan as a father. And it made me sad how enamored teenage Rory was of Christopher, and how heartbroken she was when he left. I hope Rory and Logan will be better co-parents since they're going into this as adults, but I can definitely see Logan as the type of parent who is this huge dedicated presence when he's around, but leaves a massive void while he's away.

I I recently watched You Jump, I Jump Jack and loved loved Rory trying things that are s out of her element. That episode was a nice mixture of Rory being a proactive journalist and and adventurous.

The look on her face when they landed is all I need to see to understand why Rory never quit Logan. 

[Guest]

I think Logan and Rory were a good fit personality wise and just lifestyle wise.  Rory was no longer the sweet, innocent small-town girl when she met Logan. She had become accustomed to her life of privilege and was already a bit of a snob.  Logan was also somewhat snobby so they meshed well.  He also was genuinely supportive of her when she was having a hard time - from when she was trying to get the Daily News out while they weren't even together to Richard's heart attack.  He seemed to want to take care of her (when she had no place to live, when he was leaving but kept his apartment for her, etc.) which may sound like a negative to some women, but by that point in the series, Rory was a delicate snowflake who needed protected, it seemed. 

I loved a ton of Logan scenes, so I can't really narrow it down to my favorites. 

[whateverhappened]

This is not a defense of Rory at all, but I think I see her less as a snob than as just dangerously clueless. That was always the irony of Rory - she's academically intelligent yet emotionally oblivious. For most of the series, she's clueless about who she is, what she wants, how she really feels about things, how privileged she's been financially and otherwise compared to the majority, about whether she's doing things because she wants to or because she thinks she should, and so on. And that obliviousness often manifests as insensitivity, the inadvertent snobbery that comes from just not getting it, pretty bad passive-aggression, and the kind of entitlement that comes from not having known real adversity or how to handle it.

One thing I give Logan credit for is that he's a straight shooter and one of the best, most honest and fair communicators on the whole show. To be fair, this show isn't exactly renowned for characters with the best communication skills, so he stands out in that regard! The way he directly deals with most issues in their relationship makes it harder for her to retreat from what she feels and what she wants and then act out passive aggressively, which she does in her other relationships and most aspects of her life. When they have conflicts, he's generally the one to confront them and initiate an honest and open discussion about them. He tells her candidly what he wants and what he can give - when he can't commit, he lets her know, and when he feels he's ready to be her boyfriend and then eventually her fiance, he tells her that as well. 

I'll say one other thing in defense of Logan and Rory x Logan while I'm here - I disagree that he tried to make her into a typical society girl or that he influenced her to party harder, steal that yacht and so on. I always had the impression that he really liked her geeky and awkward sides and even how anal retentive and fretful she could be. It was different for him - different in a way that seemed to appeal to him. She balanced out some of his own tendency to hedonistically act on all his impulses without thinking of the consequences. 

I've started S5 again, and it's already making it more fun and interesting to keep all this in mind! 

Edited February 8, 2017 by whateverhappened

[hippielamb]

22 hours ago, whateverhappened said:

I would really love to hear what people love best about Rory x Logan and your favorite scenes between them. I'm about to start rewatching Season 5 and want to keep a much more open mind about him and them this time around. 

What season did people like Rory x Logan the best? Most fans I know seem to love them most in either S5 or S7. Logan and their relationship seemed more mature in Season 7 but also more dynamic and vibrant in Season 5, so I could see either choice. I'm sure they had a lot of moments in Season 6 that people like a lot too, but almost no one came off their best during that season! 

Hmmmm....

 

In no particular order:

Rory showing Logan round Stars Hollow. "This is where the Rory Gilmore slept?" They're pretty adorable in that episode. 

I love them in the revival, though apparently I'm not supposed to. Eh, whatever. They're pretty darn cute. When she's on the phone with Naomi and also talking to Logan, then snuggled up on his lap. The entire interlude at the Tango club and going to the hotel. Loved it. I didn't really 'ship them until the revival. They're perfect. 

Their first time. It's sweet and funny. 

The hoops Logan is jumping through to get Rory back, and not knowing her answer as she is reading Lorelai's letter. 

The Life and Death Brigade of You Jump, I Jump Jack. The costumes, the fun, the romance, the teasing. Ahhh... 

Oh, bonus round! (Thanks to deaja for the reminder) when he lets her move in with him after Paris evicts her. I really like him in that scene. 

Personally, I like S6 better than season 5 in terms of their relationship. 

[ghoulina]

I'm not a huge fan of the Logan-Rory relationship, but it had its moments. Probably my favorite was when Richard was hospitalized and Logan was right there by her side, the entire time. It was such a stark contrast to Christopher, who was being a petulant baby and couldn't bother to put his shit aside to be there for Lorelai, and that's why I can never 100% buy Logan as "Rory's Christopher". He proved to be a lot more reliable. 

In a similar vein, I also really liked when he helped get the Daily News out on time, when Paris had her meltdown. That was a moment when he showed just how "there" he was for Rory. They were just getting back together, but he had no trouble putting aside their date and pitching in. It wasn't grand gestures of coffee carts, just being there when she needed him most. 

[whateverhappened]

I can almost feel my icy heart melting when it comes to Rory x Logan. This thread is powerful! ;) 

I agree with everything mentioned as people's favorites so far and also have a soft spot for The Long Morrow's scenes about the love rocket. I'm not a big fan of gifts as romantic gestures, but this one was so creative and had such a lovely meaning attached to it. I'll take that over the Birkin bag any day, which says a lot about how strange I am. 

I also like Rory giving Logan the kind of birthday celebration he never had in Kayak. 

Quote

 

Probably my favorite was when Richard was hospitalized and Logan was right there by her side, the entire time. It was such a stark contrast to Christopher, who was being a petulant baby and couldn't bother to put his shit aside to be there for Lorelai, and that's why I can never 100% buy Logan as "Rory's Christopher". He proved to be a lot more reliable. 

In a similar vein, I also really liked when he helped get the Daily News out on time, when Paris had her meltdown. That was a moment when he showed just how "there" he was for Rory. They were just getting back together, but he had no trouble putting aside their date and pitching in. It wasn't grand gestures of coffee carts, just being there when she needed him most. 

 

I agree! Another example is Say Something, where he snaps from laidback party boy to seriously concerned, helpful friend as soon as he learns that Rory is worried about Lorelai and has to return to Stars Hollow. 

Quote

The Life and Death Brigade of You Jump, I Jump Jack. The costumes, the fun, the romance, the teasing. Ahhh... 

I dislike the Life and Death Brigade - maybe to the point where it's sometimes unfairly tainted my opinion of Logan just because he's so associated with them - but even I get chills during the umbrella jumping scene. You can actually see the often muted Rory come alive in that moment. 

[Guest]

I haven't watched Season 7 enough to be able to tell you the episode name, but I love the scene where he tells her to go to the roof so they can see an eclipse at the same time and instead he's standing there.  You could tell Rory was genuinely happy and relaxed with him.

For some reason, I love the scene of them stealing cereal at Yale. I know that they shouldn't have done it, but it's still a cute scene. 

Same thing, but I love the scene where Logan, Colin, and Finn interrupt the class at Yale in Pushkin.  And later that episode when she calls him a butt-faced miscreant.

In How Many Kropogs, I like their phone conversation where she invites him to dinner and he pretends a carrier pigeon hit the window. Thievery aside, I like a lot of their scenes that episode.  He was willing to go sit through an uncomfortable dinner for her sake.

Also, at the "Male Yale" party, it was one of the first times we saw him being supportive and picking up on her needs - first by rescuing her from the guy who was talking to her by pretending to be her boyfriend and second when she needed bucking up. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

 

Same thing, but I love the scene where Logan, Colin, and Finn interrupt the class at Yale in Pushkin.  And later that episode when she calls him a butt-faced miscreant.

That is the equivalent of a boy pulling the ponytail of the girl he likes. 

All their scenes in Partings. The picture taking in the opening was cute. It was also thoughtful of her to throw him a going away party 

[whateverhappened]

The scenes mentioned in these posts have me actually excited to rewatch parts of S6 and S7. 

Those are words I'm not used to typing. :) 

Quote

but I love the scene where he tells her to go to the roof so they can see an eclipse at the same time and instead he's standing there.  You could tell Rory was genuinely happy and relaxed with him.

I just watched this again on youtube. That moment when she leaps into his arms is one of the most gleeful and happy Rory ever seems.  That's an example of when Logan's life loving spotaneous side is such a blessing - when he surprises her with a visit and suddenly makes an ordinary night special. Less so when he does things like drink way too much when he's upset or sleeps with lord knows how many women right away to feel some sort of temporary relief after the breakup with Rory, but most of our strengths are flaws when taken to an extreme. 

Speaking of his strengths and flaws - while Logan is now often compared to Christopher, the more I think about him, the more I see Logan as very similar to Lorelai in both great and less than ideal ways. I see that some people have compared Lorelai to Jess, but to me Logan and Lorelai are much more similar in terms of their personalities, energies, strengths and weaknesses and even backgrounds. It's especially apparent in how they're both sensation seeking and encourage Rory to be less rigid and more adventurous. Lorelai and Logan even have a similar cheerful, cocky vanity and are both dreamers but also very impulsive and action oriented. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by whateverhappened

[ghoulina]

7 hours ago, whateverhappened said:

also have a soft spot for The Long Morrow's scenes about the love rocket. I'm not a big fan of gifts as romantic gestures, but this one was so creative and had such a lovely meaning attached to it. I'll take that over the Birkin bag any day, which says a lot about how strange I am. 

Not strange at all. I have no use for fancy bags, and Rory doesn't seem like the type either. A well thought out gift like the rocket is much more perfect for her than a trendy bag that happens to cost a lot. Remember, her first instinct was to put laptop cords or something in it?!

[whateverhappened]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAoZ0Y4562s

I have to admit that these scenes are pretty adorable too. Whatever the criticisms of the season 7 writers, I like the way they write their romantic scenes. Meaning that, unlike the Palladinos, they allowed for a little actual romance in them. :) Rory x Logan had some very cute and sweet moments this season. 

This site is dangerous. Someone ban me before I start wanting to write terrible Rogan fanfic! 

Edited February 13, 2017 by whateverhappened

[hippielamb]

On 2/9/2017 at 8:42 AM, whateverhappened said:

I dislike the Life and Death Brigade - maybe to the point where it's sometimes unfairly tainted my opinion of Logan just because he's so associated with them - but even I get chills during the umbrella jumping scene. You can actually see the often muted Rory come alive in that moment. 

Their scenes (and the costuming) in that episode always remind me of The Great Gatsby. It has a '20's life is party feel. 

The thing I like about the LDB is we see Rory coming out of her shell with them. Even in the revival, she is so happy to see them again. Honestly, I view the characters who aren't Gilmore girls on how the girls react to them. Logan was right when he called Rory "sheltered". I like that he encourages her to live a little, and she actually has fun. 

[whateverhappened]

Are there any other Castle fans here? I'm realizing that Rory and Logan remind me a little of Beckett and Castle. An introverted, more rational and responsible, serious, slightly socially awkward female character who's brainy in some ways but often emotionally oblivious, especially when those emotions are their own. A more extroverted, laidback, adventurous, charming male who's a bit cocky and doesn't generally take things too seriously but has a generous and kind heart underneath.

Since people here may not know or care what I'm rambling about, let me ask which other fictional characters or couples Logan x Rory remind you of? They really do have a throwback feel sometimes, reminiscent of the older but timeless screwball comedies and romances that they show on Turner Classic Movies. :) 

[lostandfound]

I've always been little embarrassed about how much I love Logan/Rory, since I'm decades older than they are and was initially about as enthused about Logan dating Rory as Lorelai was. By the end of S7, I was writing Rogan fanfic and gushingly comparing them to timeless, classic couples from the screwball comedy era of films that AS-P supposedly draws her inspiration from. Then came the revival, and I started doubting myself for ever feeling so invested in Rogan in the first place. And doubting myself for feeling this invested in the overall show, but that's for another topic! Now that I've had some time to heal from the revival-inflicted trauma, I'm suddenly finding myself shipping Logan and Rory more than ever before. It's not that I like or condone what transpired between them in the revival. But intentionally or not - and based on interviews and my general take on ASP, my money would be on "not" - the revival showed me that their connection is actually deeper and more enduring than I had realized. I thought the actors played their scenes with a wistful, almost soulful sort of yearning that made me feel they really did love each other even as I wanted to throttle them for how ridiculous their actions were throughout. So now I'm finding myself loving this pairing more than ever before. And once again feeling a little bit embarrassed about it!

I know that at least half the Gilmore Girls fans I come across dislike this couple, but they just get to me somehow. Rationally, I understand why people have problems with them individually and together, but for some reason this is the TV couple that's captured my heart and makes me want to keep writing dreadful fanfic. :) Ironically, the revival, which initially turned me off to so many aspects of this show and often showed Rory and Logan at their worst, ended up reawakening my Rogan obsession.

Edited April 17, 2017 by lostandfound

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

6 hours ago, lostandfound said:

Ironically, the revival, which initially turned me off to so many aspects of this show and often showed Rory and Logan at their worst, ended up reawakening my Rogan obsession.

Have you seen This Review of the Revival? It is a series of intelligent analysis that may be giving ASP too much credit but there is too much parallels for it to be coincidence.

I also became more invested ...I never visited this forum until after the revival ... in the couple after I've had time to process. I am at peace with how/where ASP left them

Edited April 17, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[tarotx]

I was a huge follower of the ship on the internet during the OS but didn't really do much in the time before watching the revival. Now I'm obsessed again.

And I will never be satisfied with the way Amy left them because of the baby. If there is no more episodes than I'm good. I would have been satisfied with the LDB last night goodbye if there was no baby.

I love the passion Miral has. I love the time and effort she has put in. And I do agree with the things she points out. And I love how she mentions the Christopher Cave. I'll go with it. It's stupid for the Christopher character to have caved into a non-existing family business, especially one he's unqualified for.... He pretty much was used and abused in the Logan parallel and I was never a Christopher fan and I can see that. It would give Logan a voice that we didn't seem to get. And we have mentioned the Odette wealth and it's potential meaning here. I'd like to give Amy as much credit as Miral does but I personally don't trust Amy to care about the characters enough. I alway like to have hope though. I can see all the baby and Marriage references in the OS and in interviews from the time of the OS.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Have you seen This Review of the Revival? It is a series of intelligent analysis that may be giving ASP too much credit but there is too much parallels for it to be coincidence.

I also became more invested ...I never visited this forum until after the revival ... in the couple after I've had time to process. I am at peace with how/where ASP left them

I don't give ASP nearly that much credit.  :)

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

8 hours ago, tarotx said:

 

And I will never be satisfied with the way Amy left them because of the baby. If there is no more episodes than I'm good. I would have been satisfied with the LDB last night goodbye if there was no baby.

 

The baby is why I am okay with where she left them. Had the LDB goodbye been it, I'd have a hard time coming up with scenarios where they get back together. There was no reason for Rory to ever reach out to him after New Hampshire but now? Plus knowing he was waiting for her to hint at a possible concrete future between them and he'd drop everything and be there. The family obligation/ dynasty is supported by adding choices and post revival interviews. I'd have hated the revival less if I knew this before going in

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I don't give ASP nearly that much credit.  :)

Oh for sure. I have come to love ASP. Can't hate hate her because she did create the show, flaws and all. 

Re Miral's take; there is enough coincidence,  pointed out in both the OS and revival, for me to satisfy me. Bottom line, it make sense ASP suckage or not. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[tarotx]

12 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

The baby is why I am okay with where she left them. Had the LDB goodbye been it, I'd have a hard time coming up with scenarios where they get back together. There was no reason for Rory to ever reach out to him after New Hampshire but now? Plus knowing he was waiting for her to hint at a possible concrete future between them and he'd drop everything and there. This is supported by adding choices and post revival interviews 

Oh for sure. I have come to love ASP. Can't hate hate her because she did create the show, flaws and all. 

Re Miral's take; there is enough coincidence,  pointed out in both the OS and revival, for me to satisfy me. Bottom line, it make sense ASP suckage or not. 

 

The Baby is why I'm Ok if we don't get more episodes. I can make my own ending with what we have now :) I just don't trust Amy not to ruin Logan if we get more. I can handle a lot of things but him not being there for the baby and Rory isn't one of them :p Making Rory happy makes him happy and being there for her is one of the only things uncloaked in the revival. I don't need my ships endgame but I need a satisfying ending. And now nothing but Logan being there for Rory&the baby will be satisfying to me.

And there were so many hints that Logan&Rory would have a baby and get married during the OS. There used to be a page that listed all the articles that had Amy &/or Dan reference it and all the in-show references. I want to be as pure hearted as I was (as a fan of this ship) watching the OS before Amy left. But I know she doesn't mind ruining characters to prop up others.

[lostandfound]

Being here has made me think more analytically about the show's relationships, and while I'm definitely not glossing over Rogan's flaws as individuals or a couple, I really think at their best they were the show's most compatible, connected and happy pairing. I'm not going to delve into why a lot of the other show's romances didn't work for me, both because I don't want to be attacked and because it would be off topic here, but I'm wondering how much of my positive view of Rogan comes from the fact that they were together during S7, when someone other than ASP was writing and directing the scenes between couples. I loved so many of their S5 and S6 scenes too, but I think S7 contains even more of the Rogan moments I'd pick as my favorites. 

I wanted to agree with whoever said upthread that Rogan, more than most couples on this or many other shows, are the right  combination of similarities and difference. They have a surprising amount in common, which helps them connect, get along and understand each other in a way that pure opposites rarely do. But they've got clear differences too, and those differences are usually used not to show them annoying and clashing with each other, but as balancing each other, challenging each other, and helping each other grow. 

Maybe this sounds like too idealized a view of them, but again, I'm not ignoring their problems so much as trying to explain why I love them despite those problems! 

[Guest]

One thing I like about the Rory/Logan relationship is that they are both so flawed.  So often, you get a leading female character who is deeply flawed (like Rory) but her partner is held to such a standard that the writers "have" to make him perfect. (You also get this sometimes with the genders reversed.)  A lot of times I think it is because the writers make our leads more complex, but then don't want their partner to have glaring flaws like that somehow undermines the "happy ending."  But with Rory and Logan, I felt like "Yeah, she's pretty much a spoiled brat whose immediate family thinks she walks on water and her work ethic is inconsistent."  She wasn't up to having a perfect relationship.  But Logan was pretty spoiled, had an inconsistent work ethic, some very questionable habits and friends, so it made it more realistic to me that they would be together.

[lostandfound]

They do both have definite flaws, and I think they make them more interetsing and complex individually and together, but I think I'm in the small minority who still feels like they're good people at heart whose strengths outweigh their weaknesses? Or maybe I just need to tell myself that to justify investing time and energy in their relationship :-)

[Guest]

Until the revival, I thought that about Logan. Not so sure about Rory, and the jury is still out on both of them now.  For me, obviously.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

They are horrible people together. They fit like that :)

On 4/17/2017 at 11:57 AM, tarotx said:

The Baby is why I'm Ok if we don't get more episodes.

Same here. No matter what is said in interviews, I don't for one minute believe that the Logan that travels across the world to cheer Rory up would leave her to raise their child alone. It is so contradictory to their dynamic throughout the series and it puzzles me that there are some people who think he wouldn't be part of their daily lives or that Rory would keep the news from him. In her conversation with Chris, he confirmed how unlike he and Logan are. 

 

On 4/17/2017 at 3:54 PM, lostandfound said:

I'm wondering how much of my positive view of Rogan comes from the fact that they were together during S7, when someone other than ASP was writing and directing the scenes between couples. I loved so many of their S5 and S6 scenes too, but I think S7 contains even more of the Rogan moments I'd pick as my favorites. 

I loved them in S5 and 6 probably more than in S7. I felt they spent less time in the finale season.

I loved how bold Rory was going after him and how he made her do things she'd never done. They were spending a lot of their time together by the end of S5 but her rift from Lorelai in S6 allowed her to bond with Logan in a way she's never had with anyone (not just boyfriends) given how much room Lorelai took in her life till that point. I personally think that time together helped a long way in setting a strong foundation to their relationship. Her relationship with Logan was her own compared to all her other relationships where Lorelai was overly involved. She's even a prominent presence in her relationship with Paris and Lane is like a second daughter to her. She went on doubledates with Dean and was all up in Jess grill the brief time Rory looked his way. Logan was never RoryandLorelai, it was just Rory's. 

Now in S7, they were more settled into their relationship. I hate that we never saw her trip to London for Christmas, but l loved how he always surprised her trips home. I wish we had seen more of them when they moved into Paris and Doyle's ghetto. 

I wish ASP hadn't pretended S7 didn't happen. Their revival setup would've made more sense 

[Ambrosefolly]

I will say this about Logan vs Jess: Logan was at least wise enough to try to get in Lorelai's good graces, especially hard as by the time he came to see her at the inn, he was indirectly responsible for Rory leaving Yale and driving a wedge between her and Rory. Watching second season and Jess being such a tremendous ass to just about everyone, especially those you were trying to be nice to him, tipped the scales back towards Logan.