Unpopular Opinions

[KaveDweller]

This isn't just you, but it amazes me how Castle can be called a douchebag for a logical/emotional response (trying to move on) once finding out she lied, but a Beckett outburst is treated completely different to people. When has Beckett ever sufficiently apologized or made 'amends' for anything relating to Castle/their relationship?

I think douchebag is a bit harsh, but I think a problem people had with that arc was that it didn't come off as him moving on, it came across as him trying to punish Beckett instead of just asking her what happened. It is certainly a natural human reaction to feel that way, but it doesn't mean he can't be criticized....many natural human behaviors are unlikable.

I do think Beckett apologized in Always and in Watershed, and she seemed sincere in them and in trying to change after both of those. But that's my unpopular opinion.

[Chado]

I do think Beckett apologized in Always and in Watershed, and she seemed sincere in them and in trying to change after both of those. But that's my unpopular opinion.

Always - she nearly died, threw herself at him as a response to that, barely an apology.

 

Watershed - Ah...the beautiful 'this is my life' episode. This was even worse than Always in my opinion. She was clearly going to leave with or without Castle. Didn't include him in her decision making in any way. No Castle proposal = they'd have broken up.

 

Ohhhh I hated the proposal, it's like a short version of 'I'm going to win her back' we're seeing this season. It made no sense at all.

 

We'll just agree to disagree. I get depressed thinking about how badly this show has handled the milestones of their relationship.

[ZingerCaskett]

I think an apology that consists of "I'm so sorry,  I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry" delivered by a tearful woman who walked to your place in the rain is definitely more than a barely there apology.   

 

Yes, the answer scene to the proposal was a disappointment.   I remember thinking..."I waited all summer for this?". 

Edited November 6, 2015 by ZingerCaskett

[Blackrock1]

IF all the BTS BS is true, (and that's a big if) "Castle" must be one of the most challenging shows to write. Trying to craft arcs and individual episodes that depict a "grand love story" within a police procedural that is (now) a comedy, and can be executed within the limitations of the actors alleged contractual restrictions can NOT be easy.

Then the show runners have to do interviews and pretend it's a grand plan.

I used to wonder why Aman went to see Stana in Italy, and why it was made public.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Blackrock1

[TWP]

I think an apology that consists of "I'm so sorry,  I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry" delivered by a tearful woman who walked to your place in the rain is definitely more than a barely there apology.   

 

Yes, the answer scene to the proposal was a disappointment.   I remember thinking..."I waited all summer for this?". 

 

At this point in time, I think of her "sorry" as more like a criminal being sorry that they were caught.  She wasn't sorry for her obsession and how it controlled every aspect of her life including the person she loved, only sorry that Castle didn't stick around to witness it.  And that is what Season 8 has done to me.  Even the final scene of Always isn't touching anymore, it's irritating.  It's a sign of a manipulative person, someone who will cry and sob and be "sorry" to get her way, and then at a moment's notice, will unquestioningly go back to her dark world once again, without really considering who she will hurt..

 

I seriously wonder if they were writing her as an incurable self-centered commitment-phobic addict (to her mother's case) all along.  She spoke of the addiction early in Season 1 or 2.   Was the grand plan that she would never overcome it?  If so, it's yet another part of the story that they didn't do very well.  But she's always been concerned about the "what if we get boring" line.  She wants the drama.  Castle wants the stability.   I don't blame Martha for venturing off into wondering if the relationship is going to work.  Maybe the whole strategy of the show is the relationship wasn't going to work (if they deemed that they needed an actor to exit or something).

Edited November 9, 2015 by TWP

[Thak]

 

I used to wonder why Aman went to see Stana in Italy, and why it was made public.

 

It was simply a fan who was excited about meeting Stana in Italy and Stana and Amann graciously posed for a picture, the fan then put it on twitter.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Thak

[Blackrock1]

It was simply a fan who was excited about meeting Stana in Italy and Stana and Amann graciously posed for a picture, the fan then put it on twitter.

He went to Italy shortly before the filming began on S7, where she was being semi stalked by fans, and met with her in a public place and posed for a picture? It seemed weird to me. Made me wonder.

[KaveDweller]

At this point in time, I think of her "sorry" as more like a criminal being sorry that they were caught. She wasn't sorry for her obsession and how it controlled every aspect of her life including the person she loved, only sorry that Castle didn't stick around to witness it. And that is what Season 8 has done to me. Even the final scene of Always isn't touching anymore, it's irritating. It's a sign of a manipulative person, someone who will cry and sob and be "sorry" to get her way, and then at a moment's notice, will unquestioningly go back to her dark world once again, without really considering who she will hurt..

I seriously wonder if they were writing her as an incurable self-centered commitment-phobic addict (to her mother's case) all along. She spoke of the addiction early in Season 1 or 2. Was the grand plan that she would never overcome it? If so, it's yet another part of the story that they didn't do very well. But she's always been concerned about the "what if we get boring" line. She wants the drama. Castle wants the stability. I don't blame Martha for venturing off into wondering if the relationship is going to work. Maybe the whole strategy of the show is the relationship wasn't going to work (if they deemed that they needed an actor to exit or something).

I would disagree that she's only sorry she gets caught. She always seems truly sorry to me. At least in the past. She hasn't apologized for her current actions yet so its hard to judge that.

I also don't think her worrying about being "boring" means she wants drama. I think it shows she was originally insecure about whether she would be exciting enough for Castle long term. Her worry was that he would find her boring more than a judgement on their life. She wanted the stability and was afraid Castle didn't, but he showed her he did. Her being addicted to the case isn't the same as wanting drama.

[Thak]

 

He went to Italy shortly before the filming began on S7, where she was being semi stalked by fans, and met with her in a public place and posed for a picture? It seemed weird to me. Made me wonder.

 

I wonder about a lot of the behavior by number one on the call sheet.  We're all wondering about things. 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Thak

[nexxie]

Stupidest. Storyline. Ever. (The time out thing.) Castle and Beckett might have hope for their marriage but this viewer has no hope for the lame writers and producers of this show.

Edited November 29, 2015 by nexxie

[CastleSeason8]

Stupidest. Storyline. Ever. (The time out thing.) Castle and Beckett might have hope for their marriage but this viewer has no hope for the lame writers and producers of this show.

Going to go out on a limb here and say thats not a unpopular opinion

[verdana]

At this point in time, I think of her "sorry" as more like a criminal being sorry that they were caught. She wasn't sorry for her obsession and how it controlled every aspect of her life including the person she loved, only sorry that Castle didn't stick around to witness it. And that is what Season 8 has done to me. Even the final scene of Always isn't touching anymore, it's irritating. It's a sign of a manipulative person, someone who will cry and sob and be "sorry" to get her way, and then at a moment's notice, will unquestioningly go back to her dark world once again, without really considering who she will hurt..

I'm trying to keep positive about Beckett despite hating this shitty story they've inflicted on the character, it feel so horrible, regressive and at times OOC that it makes any analysis of her character difficult.

I don't see her as being manipulative as such, at the time she makes the apology I want to believe she's genuine about giving it and wishes she hadn't caused hurt. In Always she had an epiphany and came to her senses and not just about her relationship with Castle, I consider this is a defining moment in her emotional maturity and development and I dislike Hawley for trying to sully that.

The problem is they never allow Castle to call her out on her actions by addressing it properly and talking things through so that she realises firstly there's a point where he's going to reach a limit on his tolerance and understanding but also that it helps her sort through her issues and why she does this and they don't repeat the same mistakes again and can move forward together. That's what I would expect to see in a normal, healthy, mature relationship but Castle and Beckett don't seem to have that. I know that it's going to happen again and again with the dynamic they keep maintaining between them as a couple and sure enough that's what we got here, it's depressing and destructive if this was real life then I wouldn't expect their relationship to survive long term.

Castle in his own way is partly culpable for her continued pattern of behaviour, by his own passivity and inability to face up to things which I find annoying not charming or sweet, he's basically giving her the green light to carry on the cycle and I can see why he's got two marriages tucked under his belt already. It's wonderful to be forgiving of a partner's mistakes but you need to address the fundamental problems too and this couple never seem to do that - or are allowed to by the writers.

I seriously wonder if they were writing her as an incurable self-centered commitment-phobic addict (to her mother's case) all along. She spoke of the addiction early in Season 1 or 2. Was the grand plan that she would never overcome it? If so, it's yet another part of the story that they didn't do very well. But she's always been concerned about the "what if we get boring" line. She wants the drama. Castle wants the stability. I don't blame Martha for venturing off into wondering if the relationship is going to work. Maybe the whole strategy of the show is the relationship wasn't going to work (if they deemed that they needed an actor to exit or something).

The showrunners on Castle don't seem to have had any "grand plan" based on what I've seen over the years more a "lets throw something up on the wall and hope it sticks" plan of action. That said, watching the early seasons I never thought that they were setting her up to be like that (I always remember Castle's line to her in the pilot "you're wounded, but you're not that wounded"). If they wanted her to be permanent damaged goods I'd have stopped watching, there's nothing interesting or enjoyable about characters like that, they bore me to tears. Given that MilMar based the characters on their relationship I'd like to assume they wanted Becket to ultimately assuage her pain and move past her mother's death after various trials and tribulations.

Otherwise it's not that romantic to be rooting for a couple where I can't envisage how the woman can ever live a truly normal happy life with the guy of her dreams without fucking it up constantly. With MilMar the ending was always going to be happy ever after with these two it couldn't be anything different given their personal connection to the characters and it was reassuring knowing that even with the missteps they would definitely get there but with these guys....anything goes, they don't seem to have a clue what they're doing or care what damage has been caused to the characters and how they're perceived by some fans.

As for her worrying they might get boring and Castle having to reassure her, I saw that as very clumsy attempt to talk to the audience and tell them no they're not boring because that's what fans were complaining about around that time. I don't see these moments as being anything to do with her characterisation, just more anvilish writing making the actor an obvious mouthpiece for the writers as if you flat out tell the audience then it's obviously fact you don't need to back it up.

When S8 is done I strongly suspect in order to like both characters I'm going to have to pretend it never happened so I can keep shipping them and not feel foolish about continuing to do so.

What this separation arc has also done is have me think MilMar weren't quite as bad at writing for this couple after all and that takes some doing but this latest development in their relationship really has left a very bitter taste.

Edited November 29, 2015 by verdana

[nexxie]

Going to go out on a limb here and say thats not a unpopular opinion

That gives me hope about the intelligence of the viewers!

[KaveDweller]

I'm trying to keep positive about Beckett despite hating this shitty story they've inflicted on the character, it feel so horrible, regressive and at times OOC that it makes any analysis of her character difficult.

I don't see her as being manipulative as such, at the time she makes the apology I want to believe she's genuine about giving it and wishes she hadn't caused hurt. In Always she had an epiphany and came to her senses and not just about her relationship with Castle, I consider this is a defining moment in her emotional maturity and development and I dislike Hawley for trying to sully that.

The problem is they never allow Castle to call her out on her actions by addressing it properly and talking things through so that she realises firstly there's a point where he's going to reach a limit on his tolerance and understanding but also that it helps her sort through her issues and why she does this and they don't repeat the same mistakes again and can move forward together. That's what I would expect to see in a normal, healthy, mature relationship but Castle and Beckett don't seem to have that. I know that it's going to happen again and again with the dynamic they keep maintaining between them as a couple and sure enough that's what we got here, it's depressing and destructive if this was real life then I wouldn't expect their relationship to survive long term.

 

The way the final scene in Mr. and Mrs. Castle came across was that Beckett did have an epiphany, but it wasn't the one I would have expected. It was like she realized that she was wrong to walk away from Castle because there was a way they could have stayed together, taken LokSat down, and kept Castle safe (with the fake split).  The epiphany should have been that she shouldn't have been going after LokSat at all. But they presented it as the problem was part of her wanting to be a martyr and thinking she has to do everything by herself.  I get that they can't have her give up the case because the writers want to tell a certain story, but then they shouldn't have set the story up the way they did. They should have made it so that Beckett didn't have a choice about investigating because she was in danger or something. The story would have been so much better if that was the case.

 

Hawley did say in an interview that when we come back in February Castle will "test her" to make sure she's not keeping more secrets.  That could mean they are addressing some of these things, but Hawley seems to be a bit delusional about the story he is telling.

[madmaverick]

That said, watching the early seasons I never thought that they were setting her up to be like that (I always remember Castle's line to her in the pilot "you're wounded, but you're not that wounded"). If they wanted her to be permanent damaged goods I'd have stopped watching, there's nothing interesting or enjoyable about characters like that, they bore me to tears.

 

Same.  Damaged characters are so prevalent these days I'm contemplating switching channels every time I see a character introduced as having a tragic past in the pilot. ;)  It's like TV writers have a hard time writing well adjusted characters without neuroses and tragedies, and making them interesting people without any of that baggage.  Just as they have problems writing a happily married couple.

 

I liked that line in the pilot as Castle's description of Beckett too.  I struggled with how they wrote Beckett in S4 as so damaged that she had to lie to Castle for a whole season about hearing his ILU and putting off any further discussion of their relationship even after countless near death experiences.  I still think that was more to do with Marlowe's desire to delay the getting together as much as possible for fear of running out of storytelling more than any organic character reason.  I never thought Beckett was so 'broken' as to resort to lying unnecessarily in that way.  And I definitely didn't buy that out of the blue 'walls' crap they tried to stick onto Castle, as if Beckett wasn't enough with that angle, in that ep where Meredith visited.  

 

The epiphany should have been that she shouldn't have been going after LokSat at all.

 

This!!  At the very least there should have been a discussion of whether it's worth risking their lives, their marriage, their family to bring down some nebulous conspiracy network.  Rita & Co. have been trying to for years. Why not leave it to them?  Yes, it's horrible that her ex colleagues were murdered, but likely, they'd want her to live a happy life rather than putting everything she has at risk.  If she's doing it because of misguided guilt, well, they haven't addressed that enough.  If Beckett insists on going after Locksat by herself or with Castle, she shouldn't be blind to the very real costs (that Rita reminded her of!).  But this show being the show that it is, of course it's never going to cost the heroine anything real. ;)

 

UO: Hawley/TPW (why does he seem to get less flak?) have written the separation arc terribly and damaged Beckett's characterisation terribly.  But I think for now I put them on par with Marlowe's bad writing in later seasons.  I don't think any better of what Marlowe gave us in later seasons just because Hawley/TPW aren't doing well this season either.  I don't watch any of Shonda Rhimes' shows but she seems to be a gold standard for showrunners right now and at a level that none of the Castle showrunners, past or present, have reached.  But maybe she gets just as much bashing in her fandoms, who knows? 

[humean316]

 

This!!  At the very least there should have been a discussion of whether it's worth risking their lives, their marriage, their family to bring down some nebulous conspiracy network.  Rita & Co. have been trying to for years. Why not leave it to them?

 

See, I think this is something interesting. Why not ask Beckett to give up being a cop completely so that she would never put her life at risk being a cop? And I think that's something we should ask all cops and members of the armed forces. If you are married, should you ever really risk your life for others when you could risk your own marriage? Why not leave all of that to people who don't have families?

 

Of course, that's me being a bit hyperbolic, but I think it's an interesting point to make. If you really believe that Beckett shouldn't put her life at risk and should focus on her marriage, then shouldn't you also be calling for Beckett to completely quit the police force? That's the part of the argument I don't understand, I think there are numerous times when we call out soldiers and police officers for being heroes and putting their lives on the line, and that is in my opinion absolutely correct to do. Those people are absolutely heroes. You know why they are heroes though? Because at some point along the way they came to a point where they COULD have left it to someone else, and yet, they chose to stay in the game so that they could make the world a better place. Even maybe at the cost of their own lives. That's what makes them heroes in the first place.

 

See, if I saw a show where Beckett basically said "yeah it's cool if this group goes on killing people, doing horrible things, and being evil, I am cool with that because I have a husband at home and as long as they don't come after us I am cool", then I wouldn't watch it anymore. I simply wouldn't. Did Beckett try to fight that fight incorrectly? I do think she did, but I'll never think that shouldn't have fought the fight.

Edited November 29, 2015 by humean316

[WendyCR72]

See, I think this is something interesting. Why not ask Beckett to give up being a cop completely so that she would never put her life at risk being a cop? And I think that's something we should ask all cops and members of the armed forces. If you are married, should you ever really risk your life for others when you could risk your own marriage? Why not leave all of that to people who don't have families?

 

Of course, that's me being a bit hyperbolic, but I think it's an interesting point to make. If you really believe that Beckett shouldn't put her life at risk and should focus on her marriage, then shouldn't you also be calling for Beckett to completely quit the police force? That's the part of the argument I don't understand, I think there are numerous times when we call out soldiers and police officers for being heroes and putting their lives on the line, and that is in my opinion absolutely correct to do. Those people are absolutely heroes. You know why they are heroes though? Because at some point along the way they came to a point where they COULD have left it to someone else, and yet, they chose to stay in the game so that they could make the world a better place. Even maybe at the cost of their own lives. That's what makes them heroes in the first place.

 

See, if I saw a show where Beckett basically said "yeah it's cool if this group goes on killing people, doing horrible things, and being evil, I am cool with that because I have a husband at home and as long as they don't come after us I am cool", then I wouldn't watch it anymore. I simply wouldn't. Did Beckett try to fight that fight incorrectly? I do think she did, but I'll never think that shouldn't have fought the fight.

 

I don't even necessarily disagree with what you wrote. But in most of those cases, those police officers do not actively seek out trouble. It's 90% happenstance. Here, Beckett does have a choice.

 

And while I am sure, on occasion, captains are needed in the field, for the most part, if the show stayed true to police hierarchy and what is involved, Beckett's days in the field would be done as captain. She would be sending the subordinates for the fight.

 

Which is why promoting her is inherently ridiculous. Because she is still acting like a detective with the captain label slapped on for...reasons.

 

So I think the argument you made within these confines is sort of apples and oranges. Even if it is overall the truth.

[GoGiants]

I don't see her as being manipulative as such, at the time she makes the apology I want to believe she's genuine about giving it and wishes she hadn't caused hurt. In Always she had an epiphany and came to her senses and not just about her relationship with Castle, I consider this is a defining moment in her emotional maturity and development and I dislike Hawley for trying to sully that.

The problem is they never allow Castle to call her out on her actions by addressing it properly and talking things through so that she realises firstly there's a point where he's going to reach a limit on his tolerance and understanding but also that it helps her sort through her issues and why she does this and they don't repeat the same mistakes again and can move forward together.

 

Maybe they discussed it in “private”, lol. ;) On a more serious note, I too would have liked to have seen that discussion long ago. I loved Always and After the Storm and felt it could have been near perfection if they had discussed all their baggage and moved forward from it stronger. Just like they needed to have a real, honest discussion this time around. S8 puts a mark on a lot of the positive development that occurred between the characters in past seasons. You are right, this seems like an easy source of drama and angst that they are likely going to revisit until the show is over. Sad and oh so frustrating.

 

I never thought that they were setting her up to be like that (I always remember Castle's line to her in the pilot "you're wounded, but you're not that wounded"). If they wanted her to be permanent damaged goods I'd have stopped watching, there's nothing interesting or enjoyable about characters like that, they bore me to tears. Given that MilMar based the characters on their relationship I'd like to assume they wanted Becket to ultimately assuage her pain and move past her mother's death after various trials and tribulations.

 

Agreed. Beckett was “wounded” like Castle said but not suffering from some obsessive and life destroying addiction. They showed flashes of how deeply it affected Beckett in various episodes over the years but for the most part she appeared to be a relatively successful and stable adult onscreen. Yes she had problems, but who doesn't? She had a life, a career, hobbies and even dated. She was rather intense and quite good at her job but I never felt that she was one “drink” away from the gutter. Additionally, post-Veritas and since her relationship/marriage to Castle, she has been portrayed as a stronger person and even happy. Together they were partners who "backed each others plays", as they said in the S7 finale. The portrayal this season has not convinced me of the new, “obsessive DNA” version of Beckett either.

 

When S8 is done I strongly suspect in order to like both characters I'm going to have to pretend it never happened so I can keep shipping them and not feel foolish about continuing to do so.

 

I am absolutely blocking out S8 when it’s over.  I am already trying to forget the first 8 episodes. I don’t usually hope that the shows I watch will be cancelled but I want S8 to be the end for Castle. I don’t want to imagine what stupidity will be put on the show and the characters in a potential S9.

 

 

What this separation arc has also done is have me think MilMar weren't quite as bad at writing for this couple after all and that takes some doing but this latest development in their relationship really has left a very bitter taste.

 

I think MilMar knew how to write to the heart of the show. They struggled at times with the execution and did maddeningly stupid things with the characters (especially as the show aged and Castle and Beckett got together, so many missed opportunities!).  However, I never doubted their intentions toward the show and the characters. To be clear, I am most definitely not attempting to give MilMar a pass on their mistakes.

 

The new showrunners have pulled the rug out from under the characters, 7 years of storytelling and the viewers. No clue of their motivations and intentions, but the results so far have been beyond disappointing.

Edited November 29, 2015 by GoGiants

[GoGiants]

This!! At the very least there should have been a discussion of whether it's worth risking their lives, their marriage, their family to bring down some nebulous conspiracy network. Rita & Co. have been trying to for years. Why not leave it to them? Yes, it's horrible that her ex colleagues were murdered, but likely, they'd want her to live a happy life rather than putting everything she has at risk. If she's doing it because of misguided guilt, well, they haven't addressed that enough. If Beckett insists on going after Locksat by herself or with Castle, she shouldn't be blind to the very real costs (that Rita reminded her of!). But this show being the show that it is, of course it's never going to cost the heroine anything real. ;)

Yes. There should’ve been a major discussion between them. Because they are partners of 7 years and they are married (duh!). 5 minutes earlier Beckett promised Castle no more secrets. Then she turned around and launched what is likely the worst secret/lie of their relationship and the show.

Beckett’s mom had been dead for 9- 10 years when Castle showed up, right (I don’t have the time line memorized)? It took 6 seasons of the show and Castle and Beckett as a team for them to get to that conclusion in Veritas. How did she think that she could investigate an even bigger bad guy, off the record and on her own with only Vikram? And to top it all off, she figured that she’d wrap it up in a few weeks or months (just my guess here)? How stupid do the writers think Beckett is (makes her look like the world's worst detective) and how stupid do they think the viewers are?

See, if I saw a show where Beckett basically said "yeah it's cool if this group goes on killing people, doing horrible things, and being evil, I am cool with that because I have a husband at home and as long as they don't come after us I am cool", then I wouldn't watch it anymore. I simply wouldn't. Did Beckett try to fight that fight incorrectly? I do think she did, but I'll never think that shouldn't have fought the fight.

It’s not a question for me of Beckett not doing her duty so much as how they chose to have her do it. I’m not suggesting she discuss and get approval for every aspect of her job with Castle. He doesn’t need to weigh in on every arrest or possible situation (he’s there for most of it anyways, lol). But Loksat and splitting up their marriage was a big deal. It was worthy of something more than her own unilateral decisions. She chose to pursue it. The show went out of its way to remind the viewers of that fact as well. They could've written this in a way where she pursued this without damage to their marriage or both Castle and Beckett's character development.

Also I agree with Wendy, if there was any reality to her promotion at all, she would be at meetings, and sitting behind her desk in a supervisory role. As much as I was not in favor of her being a senator or captain at this moment in time, I could overlook a lot of stupid stuff regarding the captain job if the show wasn’t as screwed up as it currently is.

Edited November 30, 2015 by GoGiants

[oberon55]

 

See, if I saw a show where Beckett basically said "yeah it's cool if this group goes on killing people, doing horrible things, and being evil, I am cool with that because I have a husband at home and as long as they don't come after us I am cool", then I wouldn't watch it anymore.

 

It's sort of funny because that was almost exactly what happened in "Always" & "After the Storm". Beckett walked away from pursuing this evil group (it is even now canon that LokSat was somehow part of it) so she could be with Castle. She did not want to get involved again until she realized they were going to come after her & possibly Castle.

[KaveDweller]

It's sort of funny because that was almost exactly what happened in "Always" & "After the Storm". Beckett walked away from pursuing this evil group (it is even now canon that LokSat was somehow part of it) so she could be with Castle. She did not want to get involved again until she realized they were going to come after her & possibly Castle.

 

She did walk away from in in After the Storm, but then after Belly of the Beast she found out Bracken was linked to Vulcan Simmons. And then she and Castle started up an investigation again.  They weren't in danger then.  If this was a better show we would have seen them talk about that decision, but sadly it is not.  I do remember in Veritas Beckett told Castle she was being careful and it implied they'd talked about her reckless choices with the case in the past.  But we didn't see anything about that decision. 

 

 

But Loksat and splitting up their marriage was a big deal. It was worthy of something more than her own unilateral decisions. She chose to pursue it. The show went of its way to remind the viewers of that fact as well. They could've written this in a way where she pursued this without damage to their marriage or both Castle and Beckett's character development.

 

It's really weird that they had multiple characters tell Beckett to walk away, and have the showrunners give so many interviews about how she just can't help but be obsessed with the case, but then not address it at all when Castle found out about it.  Crappy writing or a change in plans?

[verdana]

Beckett’s mom had been dead for 9- 10 years when Castle showed up, right (I don’t have the time line memorized)? It took 6 seasons of the show and Castle and Beckett as a team for them to get to that conclusion in Veritas. How did she think that she could investigate an even bigger bad guy, off the record and on her own with only Vikram? And to top it all off, she figured that she’d wrap it up in a few weeks or months (just my guess here)? How stupid do the writers think Beckett is (makes her look like the world's worst detective) and how stupid do they think the viewers are?

That's the problem I'm having with the season and this story in particular none of it makes sense, not one single aspect of it from Beckett being promoted to captain yet continuing to act like a detective, to her pursuit of the case alone, to her trusting Vikram so easily, to the separation, to Castle's lack of intuition and passivity and sudden acceptance that going after Locksat and for them to both pretend to remain apart. It's very difficult to gain much enjoyment out of a story as fundamentally flawed as this which is asking me to suspend disbelief at every turn. Edited November 30, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

It's really weird that they had multiple characters tell Beckett to walk away, and have the showrunners give so many interviews about how she just can't help but be obsessed with the case, but then not address it at all when Castle found out about it.  Crappy writing or a change in plans?

The writing was so woeful even a novice teenage fanfic writer could have produced better, if this was them addressing the issue in the exact way they always wanted then I shudder to what awaits us in the second half of the season when they'll presumably be moving deeper into the Locksat conspiracy and Castle's mythology. I can only assume there must have been a last minute change made if not then may I suggest the showrunners need to consider a change of career because they're clearly not competent enough to handle the pressure of writing and running a show on network TV. 

Edited November 30, 2015 by verdana

[Julia]

The writing was so woeful even a novice teenage fanfic writer could have produced better, if this was them addressing the issue in the exact way they always wanted then I shudder to what awaits us in the second half of the season when they'll presumably be moving deeper into the Locksat conspiracy and Castle's mythology. I can only assume there must have been a last minute change made if not then may I suggest the showrunners need to consider a change of career because they're clearly not competent enough to handle the pressure of writing and running a show on network TV. 

 

Well, at least we finally have the answer to the question "Is it a coincidence that the show started to go downhill when René Echevarria left?" Because if these two brought their particular brand of genius to their work on season 2 like they keep saying they did, there was someone there saying no to them, and I doubt it was Marlowe.

[CastleSeason8]

From S1 thru part of S5, i felt Castle loved Beckett so much more than was returned. Somewhere in S5 that opinion started to soften and S6 and 7 i felt things evened out. S8, Im back to awww, poor Castle...jmo

[amensisterfriend]

Ready for pretty much the most unpopular opinion ever?! *deep breath* I'm rewatching and actually LIKING Season 6. I honestly think the bright side to this current season sucking so very, very much (IMO, obviously) is that suddenly even my least favorite Castle seasons now seem awesome by contrast :) 

[CastleSeason8]

Ready for pretty much the most unpopular opinion ever?! *deep breath* I'm rewatching and actually LIKING Season 6. I honestly think the bright side to this current season sucking so very, very much (IMO, obviously) is that suddenly even my least favorite Castle seasons now seem awesome by contrast :)

Are you kidding? In hindsight S6 is absolutely delightful!

[femmefan1946]

For those fascinated by the high priced clothing worn by Beckett, I was noodling around on eBayCanada (I should have been listing) and came across this closed auction for a dress and sweater worn by Emily Deschanel on Bones.

On SALE!

A good day to you! Up for sale is a great and unique screen used sweater and dress from the FANTASTIC TV show Bones. Dr. Brennan, played by Emily Deschanel, wore one like this in the Season 7 episode The Prince in The Plastic (703). She is wearing it throughout the episode, that is why my price is a little bit higher than the previous maternity set that I sold.

Sweater: long sleeve cardigan sweater made by XXI (made in China). Size is medium and it is made of rayon, nylon and cotton. Color is black and it is in good condition.

Dress: sleeveless dress made by Gap Maternity (made in Vietnam). Size is large and it is made of polyester. Color is Navy Blue, white, orange and yellow. Good condition.

 

The original COA from VIP Fan Auctions / Fox is included. ;-) Don't miss your chance to own a piece of television history with this unique item!

As a bonus, I will include a copy of the original auction (with personal info blacked out) to prove it really came from VIP.

 

It was listed at $80USD and sold to a Best Offer. (eBay item number:
201443423813 if you want to check it out)

 

Just saying....

Edited January 18, 2016 by femmefan1946

[CastleSeason8]

With the force of that slap and the change in character for them (pretending or not) maybe they've started socializing with Slaughter since Castle is all friendly with him now? Picking up some bad habits

[femmefan1946]

I was just watching the episode with the dead rockstar hanging upside down, and even there Alexis was showing herself quite proficient with internet technology.

And it was her vlog that was how the Russian mob found her, and her Egyptian girlfriend, in the introduction to spy!daddy.

 

Which just leads me to say that Alexis being the current techwhiz (like Ryan and Tori before her) is not completely without backstory.

[CastleSeason8]

Dont get me wrong. I love Stana, love them both, and i do feel like Beckett has been marginalized this season, but if NF went on twitter and asked for favorite Castle moments he would be skewered

[Thirteen]

Dont get me wrong. I love Stana, love them both, and i do feel like Beckett has been marginalized this season, but if NF went on twitter and asked for favorite Castle moments he would be skewered

 

Only if he asked for favorite Malcolm moments

[CastleSeason8]

Being a Criminal Minds watcher and not seeing the exit of Shemar Moore coming, its got me thinking about SK.

I really think she's going up in flames in the season finale.

We've been weaned off the character all season

We had the call sheet with the 'Dead Heat' book spoiler on it

We've been told Gerald McRaney was recurring but they are taping the 2nd last episode and he hasnt been back, so is he back S9?

We had that blind item saying a lead would die at the end of the series finale with a tearful goodbye between the two leads at a graveyard

And, what i believe, was SKs return this year to end her storyline.

To me this all adds up to a Kate Beckett good bye and the birth of Castle moving to LA and a new life.

Edited March 25, 2016 by CastleSeason8

[BellyLaughter]

If that is true should we have been given a heads up?? At least going into the second half of the season?? Most savvy CM fans knew Shemar was on his way out - that wasn't a secret. The manner of his character's departure was however.

I would have appreciated it --- others may not feel the same way??!!

[CastleSeason8]

Personally i think they want to keep that tightly under wraps until its over. Thats why no announcement about renewal. They'll wait until finale and then tell us about new Castle PI plans S9 sans Katic, hoping to keep fans tuned to end of S8. JMO. It just makes sense in my warped mind.

[WendyCR72]

Still thinking both will be back. As for renewal announcements, it's traditional to wait until May (unless the show is a hit, those get the early announcements), so I don't see any weirdness.

[KaveDweller]

Personally i think they want to keep that tightly under wraps until its over. Thats why no announcement about renewal. They'll wait until finale and then tell us about new Castle PI plans S9 sans Katic, hoping to keep fans tuned to end of S8. JMO. It just makes sense in my warped mind.

 

It's a pretty convincing argument, but I really don't want Beckett to die, so I am just going to keep pretending it couldn't possibly be true.

[BellyLaughter]

If this is a season of writing Beckett out they have done a pretty rubbish job of it! All they have done is shown how starkly her absence is felt when she's not around and how important the Castle Beckett relationship is to fans and the health of this show!

[Julia]

Well, again, the show was renewed by the network for this season with Fillion on board before Katic agreed to come back. Apparently team Castle has already managed to sell them on his being able to carry a series by himself.

I think they're mistaken about that, but then I haven't been completely on board since season 2, so I'm not the audience they're trying to keep.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Julia

[KaveDweller]

Well, again, the show was renewed by the network for this season with Fillion on board before Katic agreed to come back. Apparently team Castle has already managed to sell them on his being able to carry a series by himself.

 

I don't remember it that way.....they announced that Nathan had a new contract and they announced they were getting new showrunners, but they didn't officially renew it until after Stana had signed. It was clear they would have renewed it without it her though (unless they were really confident she was coming back).

 

Paul Lee was saying all year that they'd come back with both stars, but we haven't heard anything about Castle from ABC or the showrunners since he was replaced.

[Julia]

Nope. They announced the new showrunners after the renewal, which came after he signed back on, and then she signed. Also here. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by Julia

[KaveDweller]

Nope. They announced the new showrunners after the renewal, which came after he signed back on, and then she signed. Also here. 

 

Thanks, not sure why I was remembering it differently.

 

I really hate the waiting part of all this.

[CastleSeason8]

If this is a season of writing Beckett out they have done a pretty rubbish job of it! All they have done is shown how starkly her absence is felt when she's not around and how important the Castle Beckett relationship is to fans and the health of this show!

I absolutely agree with you. And that makes it worse if my prediction is true. They kill her off and the series lasts maybe a year? Stupid, stupid, stupid. But they're not the brightest bunch this year. Imo

[Chado]

If this is a season of writing Beckett out they have done a pretty rubbish job of it! All they have done is shown how starkly her absence is felt when she's not around and how important the Castle Beckett relationship is to fans and the health of this show!

I kind of disagree. I think the show is what it is even if one of them were to leave, their relationship has taken such a backseat to how each episode is structured now.

 

I mean what is the Caskett relationship now, really? An opening and closing scene. That's it for the most part. Change the closing scene to focus on a specific character and/or family type stuff, and Caskett is easily removed.

 

Castle PI can easily be its own show, Beckett at the 12th (sans Castle) can easily be its own show. The total viewers is around 6 million now, right? The show doesn't have much to lose, even if they were to get rid of one of the leads.

 

You add Hayley and you reduce the need to have Beckett with Castle. You add Vikram and you reduce Castle having to have scenes with Beckett in the main storyline of the season. They've been actively working to remove the two of them 'together' for a long time now. When they are able to successfully reduce the time they spend together, you can then start to reduce the importance of either character (both Castle and Beckett).

 

You take a look at social media and general TV articles...and people still love and/or defend the show (these people are typically more of the 'shippers' too), so one would assume the casual TV viewer has no issue with it either. So clearly the reduction of Caskett hasn't become an issue for many people. I mean Caskett scenes are legitimately down to 5-7 minutes per episode now. It's not that much of a leap to see that be reduced even further, even entirely.

 

So in some ways I think the show has 'successfully' lowered people's expectations when it comes to Castle and Beckett together, and in many ways also been successful in preparing to write out either character (if need be) by just reducing their overall impact to an episode throughout the season. The reduction is obvious and yet people still rave about the scenes they do get, so why would it ever change?

 

I know so many are confident both will be back for a season 9, but I'd honestly be shocked if both came back myself.

[BellyLaughter]

I dunno - each to their own - but I feel a lot of fans are just happy to get something - even if it is token and half hearted. Would their enthusiasm still be the same should there be the prospect of no Castle, no Beckett and no Caskett?? I highly doubt it.

That's the 3 options if one were to leave and losing either lead and Caskett would be like ripping the heart out of this show and I think it's audience would follow.

I have not found one single fanfic that has come as a result of Castle GDS .... Not one??? But the sad thing is it didn't surprise me.

I think it's completely in keeping with the business of TV for them to be seeking out ways to keep this show healthy and on air but writing Beckett out isn't one of them and I wouldn't be surprised if they have reached the conclusion that if they can't convince Stana to stay then it's time to call it a day. Nathan is not the sure bet some think he is and none of the supporting characters are even remotely interesting or compelling enough to warrant renewing a show that is already floundering in the ratings in its 8th season.

But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and if Stana is walking I kind of understand why...

[CastleSeason8]

I get what ur saying Chado, and to a certain degree I agree with you. People's expectations have been lowered immensely, no question. But, i dont think that if you took one lead away fans would just say, oh well, so be it.

Maybe a portion of the fandom, but there would be a very large group who, i believe, would jump ship. That could be the final straw.

Take, say, Stana out, you lose maybe 20% (?) of your audience. Add another 20-30% Caskett fans who dont want to see Castle with anyone else. With barely 6mil left, thats a gamble.

JMO but on the thought of lowered expectations - Ive seen many post on social media how Mondays ep was one of the best of the series. Its been wayyy too long since we've had a great episode if that one was one the greatest.

[Chado]

I get what ur saying Chado, and to a certain degree I agree with you. People's expectations have been lowered immensely, no question. But, i dont think that if you took one lead away fans would just say, oh well, so be it.

Maybe a portion of the fandom, but there would be a very large group who, i believe, would jump ship. That could be the final straw.

Take, say, Stana out, you lose maybe 20% (?) of your audience. Add another 20-30% Caskett fans who dont want to see Castle with anyone else. With barely 6mil left, thats a gamble.

JMO but on the thought of lowered expectations - Ive seen many post on social media how Mondays ep was one of the best of the series. Its been wayyy too long since we've had a great episode if that one was one the greatest.

I don't think the % is that high to be honest. I don't think you lose 50% of the 5-7 million if one of Beckett/Castle were to leave. I think people watch for a variety of different reasons. I see a lot of people on this forum alone who say that Castle without its humor is just like any other boring crime procedural. So what if the show introduces a new lead for Castle and/or Beckett to play off and there is the romantic/flirty undertones to it from season 1/2 that they had with each other? What if the humor of the show remains there?

 

How irreplaceable is one of them if the viewer either doesn't care about Caskett, or has lost interest in their relationship due to the on-screen reduction, or a variety of different reasons?...I'm sure there are people that *gulp* like Vikram and Hayley. It's really hard to know obviously,

 

I do happen to think people are more likely to accept one of them leaving NOW after the show has intentionally been removing them from scenes together throughout the whole season. I think this season has been purely to see how the show would function if they were largely independent from each other. Beckett being captain has made sure that they will never be work partners again. Season 9 won't be able to have Castle back working on cases with the team, not like how it used to be anyway. They'll find a new way to keep him away from it.

 

This isn't me championing the show if one of them leave by the way, I've stopped watching this season already due to how poor Caskett has been this season (I've only watched 7 episodes of season 8).

 

I'm one of the people you mention CastleSeason8, but I just don't think me (and others who view Caskett as the be all and end all) are anywhere close to 30-50% of total viewers.

 

I think even if the show dropped to 5 million viewers after Beckett/Castle leaves, the show would still largely function the same way with the same type of numbers.

I dunno - each to their own - but I feel a lot of fans are just happy to get something - even if it is token and half hearted. Would their enthusiasm still be the same should there be the prospect of no Castle, no Beckett and no Caskett?? I highly doubt it.

That's the 3 options if one were to leave and losing either lead and Caskett would be like ripping the heart out of this show and I think it's audience would follow.

I agree with you, but I just don't think the actual numbers would be impacted as much as we think they would. I think the show has already separated the two of them into their own sections of the show (PI v 12th) and now that people are conditioned to expecting lower amounts of Caskett, the transition to that ending...wouldn't be as intense as what it would have been prior to Beckett becoming captain and Castle doing his own thing.

 

I think you can beat audiences into submission, or have them accept a lower quality of show/interaction if the transition is slow enough to not be easily noticed by the majority.

[CastleSeason8]

I do hear you! I also havent watched them all this season, so Im looking at it as one who would def jump ship. Hell, i may jump ship before this is over since Im of the belief Beckett will kick the bucket and Im not sticking around to watch that

[AnnaMayWong]

Personally, I enjoy the show more so when Beckett is either very limited in episode appearance or actually absent from the episodes.

[Thak]

Personally, I enjoy the show more so when Castle is limited in episode appearance, like the last episode, a little less would have been better, actually he could be absent from episodes.